Best Gun Disarm Techniques

[cclaxton]

I am doing Krav Maga and have learned two disarm techniques.
1) Gun in back, arms up, rotate, lock gun arm, pound away on them with elbow/fist/kick until I can reach over and pull gun from hand.
2) Gun held at head, use arms to push gun arm up and left or right, moving head away from muzzle, kicking in groin, and elbow, rotate into gun arm and remove gun.

I am sure there are a lot of other types and methods. It is an area I want to learn a lot more about.

Please post your favorite gun disarm methods.
Cody

[LittleLebowski]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVeb15eVPWA

[HCM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVeb15eVPWA

Sorry for the quick derailment but it that an actual incident ?

[LittleLebowski]

Sorry for the quick derailment but it that an actual incident ?

Yup.

[Peally]

Since I lack any physical fighting training or skills, I'm pretty solidly in LL's camp of "Shoot them in the face or have them mauled by a dog" :D

Honestly even if I knew how to (physical training is certainly an interesting avenue to pursue) with an armed wacko I'm not super inclined to fight them unless there's zero other choice. With a gun to your head there's not exactly a lot of room for error.

[LittleLebowski]

Coyotesfan97 is a literal SME on the K9 stuff.

[Robinson]

I've been training in Goju for about 25 years and I've seen and practiced many variations of weapons disarms. Most of the ones that actually have a chance of working depend on the person with the gun doing something very stupid, such as holding the gun close to you as they demand whatever they are demanding. If the bad guy has enough sense to keep a little distance then a disarm is a very remote possibility at best. That doesn't mean you shouldn't fight if the person shows intent. At contact distance I would rather face a gun than a knife in skilled hands, though I would rather avoid either.

[JV_]

Please post your favorite gun disarm methods.

I think you'd get some great answers from the guys over at TPI, the user base is probably more dedicated to this type of training than the average member here.

Here's a link: http://www.totalprotectioninteractive.com/forum/

[cclaxton]

I think you'd get some great answers from the guys over at TPI, the user base is probably more dedicated to this type of training than the average member here.

Here's a link: http://www.totalprotectioninteractive.com/forum/
Thanks, James.
Cody

[Patrick Taylor]

http://www.defenseagainstcrime.com/self-defense/fighting-videos/taylor.htm

I have taken classes with Bob Taylor. I don't know if he still teaches or not but his were the better ones I have taken on dis-armament.

[Chuck Haggard]

I can't get too deep in the weeds, but the disarms taught as part of Mr. Lindell's weapon retention and disarming system are the best I have seen for good guys. One reason is that they are effective AND make it less likely to hit a third party with the almost inevitable shot that is going to happen in the middle of such an incident.

Not a fan of the "grab gun, try to beat the shit out of the guy" disarms.

[orionz06]

Not a fan of the "grab gun, try to beat the shit out of the guy" disarms.

Probably because you forgot to simultaneously pluck an eye out with thumb and forefinger.

[JV_]

http://www.defenseagainstcrime.com/self-defense/fighting-videos/taylor.htm

Which leads to:

3 - Tapes:

Do they include a VHS player too?

[Byron]

Do they include a VHS player too?
Careful! You don't want him to beat you up:


Nobody who knows about Bob's fighting abilities would ever willingly go up against him without packing a loaded shotgun. Hand to hand, you will lose a fight against him, no matter how big, or muscled, or experienced you are.

[insert repetitive jerking motion here]

[Mr_White]

I like the rest of it too:


Bob Taylor is a little man with a smart mouth and a bad attitude. So he had to learn how to fight and win against the bigger guys who looked down on him and figured him for an easy target. In school. In the filthy streets ruled by drug-dealing gangs.

He's just 5 feet 6 inches tall, and maybe 140 pounds soaking wet (on a good day). Small features: thin arms, thin legs, thin neck. You'd never pick him for a fighter. Too little.

Nevertheless, Bob Taylor is widely regarded among the elite martial arts world as perhaps the best "self educated" street fighter around. Nobody who knows about Bob's fighting abilities would ever willingly go up against him without packing a loaded shotgun. Hand to hand, you will lose a fight against him, no matter how big, or muscled, or experienced you are.

Bob developed his unique style of "dirty fighting" during his 40 years of formal training, bar brawls and street fights bounty hunting and busting up narcotics gangs. He's worked as a private eye, a personal armed bodyguard to superstar rock groups (like Aerosmith, the Who and Led Zepplin), and a canine handler for 11 separate jurisdictions. He's also a recognized "Chi Master" - at an infamous Soldier of Fortune convention, he drove a steel rod through his forearm, tied it to a new Ford Mustang, and dragged the car 287 feet... without blood, without pain, without scarring. (Don't try this at home.)

[Mr_White]

http://www.defenseagainstcrime.com/self-defense/fighting-videos/taylor.htm

I have taken classes with Bob Taylor. I don't know if he still teaches or not but his were the better ones I have taken on dis-armament.

My apologies to Patrick Taylor. If you've taken some classes with him, can you describe anything about them? Firsthand report is way better than the sensational ad copy I was looking at. Thanks!

[ToddG]

This has worked for me every time I've had to use it:


http://youtu.be/OfBHICZoZtk

[cclaxton]

This has worked for me every time I've had to use it:

Where do I learn how to do THAT?
If I had this skill, I could make bullets hit down zeros every time.
Cody

[ToddG]

Where do I learn how to do THAT?

I'm going to start teaching. Ten classes, $10,000 each, and you're guaranteed to be able to do that at the end. Please note that the graduation exercise for lesson 10 is that exact scene done live fire. If you cannot stop the role player from shooting you, then you fail and the guarantee does not apply.


If I had this skill, I could make bullets hit down zeros every time.

It doesn't work on bullets because bullets don't have brains. I'm beginning to understand why you miss ...

However, it is useful when you try to convince the scorekeeper that you shot a perfect double.

[Peally]

Ah, the Kobayashi Maru. I just need to figure out a way to cheat ;)

[Mr_White]

Reprogram the simulation!

[SouthNarc]

I am doing Krav Maga and have learned two disarm techniques.
1) Gun in back, arms up, rotate, lock gun arm, pound away on them with elbow/fist/kick until I can reach over and pull gun from hand.
2) Gun held at head, use arms to push gun arm up and left or right, moving head away from muzzle, kicking in groin, and elbow, rotate into gun arm and remove gun.

I am sure there are a lot of other types and methods. It is an area I want to learn a lot more about.

Please post your favorite gun disarm methods.
Cody

Two areas that rarely get addressed in gun disarm training that I think are pretty important.

1) Setting up the initial move. Try and talk your hands as close as you can to the gun while supplicating. This works well to draw a gun closer to you if it's to far away. Try and get the bad guy verbalizing and make the move when he's talking.

2) Work from realistic gun holds and unconventional positions. If it won't work seated in a Smart Car, rethink it.

Having done this for real and lost some hearing over it it's strictly a last ditch thing.

[23JAZ]

Yup.

My dad was a K9 handler. I've been around very highly trained GSDs and other breeds my entire life and still to this day I never stop being impressed when I see a scene like that play out. That boy deserves a porterhouse! PACKEN FASS!!!

[TumblinDown]

I like Master Ken's technique. ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AyBxycnXUc

[ToddG]

So awesome.

[TTS]

You will have to excuse the cheesy video, it was done years ago on a low budget. This was an improved program we (my previous company) developed for MCMAIP at Camp Pendleton. It was a simple program that the Marines could learn in an 8 hour training block and be successful at not getting shot with airsoft by the end.

http://youtu.be/k1cRTZjYqi4

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg133/burris_craig_r/Misc/STA70046.jpg (http://s247.photobucket.com/user/burris_craig_r/media/Misc/STA70046.jpg.html)

[45dotACP]

Heh, what is it with Marines and Drowning Pool? ;) (Just kidding man)

Some of those were very interesting techniques, and the retention techniques seemed like something that one would want to consider when going for a gun disarm...obviously the guy just pulling the pistol back and shooting you from retention is a major concern.

[TTS]

Heh, what is it with Marines and Drowning Pool? ;) (Just kidding man)

Some of those were very interesting techniques, and the retention techniques seemed like something that one would want to consider when going for a gun disarm...obviously the guy just pulling the pistol back and shooting you from retention is a major concern.

A major part of the instruction on disarm was focused on understanding distance and its relationship to time. When disarming from someone with an extended pistol a key to the technique is getting behind the pistol and off line quickly so that as the attacker pulled the pistol back it assisted the disarm. Many of the rotational techniques work very well but risk shooting the guy next to you. Situational awareness is of monumental importance when disarming; you have to start from the understanding that the gun is going to fire once and that shot can't be covering you or the guy next to you.

One of the Marines that we trained worked as a limo driver and had the unfortunate opportunity to disarm someone pointing a .38 at his head. When speaking to him after the incident he mentioned that the technique worked perfectly but he was surprised that the gun didn't fire. After talking he realized that he had disabled the cylinder form turning when he grabbed the gun.

ETA: Drowning Pool is like cat nip for Marines... It gets them running around humping and breaking stuff :-)

[Patrick Taylor]

Which leads to:


Do they include a VHS player too?

I just did a quick search on his name and that place came up with his videos. I don't know anything about the sellers at the link. The company he marketed his videos through is pretty bad on the marketing garbage , it is the production company more than him.

The techniques done on the video are done using simunitions , not airsoft. The first edition was with Bob and Randy Wanner and the 2nd dvd I think was with someone else but I do not remember for sure. Bob is the person that was behind REKAT and the ALMar Warrior blades.

[Patrick Taylor]

"My apologies to Patrick Taylor. If you've taken some classes with him, can you describe anything about them? Firsthand report is way better than the sensational ad copy I was looking at. Thanks! "


Not a problem , I am thick skinned.

I agree on the ad copy , it is garbage.

Take a look at the video posted. In many of the disarms he makes no attempt to move out of the way of the bullet path before going for the weapon. In Bob's training this is not done.

[Tamara]

Bob Taylor... There's a name I haven't heard in years (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=162570&postcount=23). Too bad phonyveterans.com is defunct, because their takedown of his claims of having dispatched forty Charlies in the bush using nothing but his knife was epic. Has he backed off on that or is he still passing on tales of Vietnam heroism?

ETA: Never mind, Wayback Machine to the rescue (https://web.archive.org/web/20030203090035/http://www.phonyveterans.com/Taylor.html)!

[BaiHu]

...At contact distance I would rather face a gun than a knife in skilled hands, though I would rather avoid either.

My feelings as well. 20 years in an Isshin system.


...One reason is that they are effective AND make it less likely to hit a third party with the almost inevitable shot that is going to happen in the middle of such an incident.

Not a fan of the "grab gun, try to beat the shit out of the guy" disarms.

Agreed. I'm surprised at some of the disarms I see on the yootoobz. The simple fact that they rarely consider surrounding parties that may be with you or innocent bystanders. Re: KM, I think (think-not know) this is primarily b/c KM does not come from a civilian-minded background.


This has worked for me every time I've had to use it:


http://youtu.be/OfBHICZoZtk

Upgrade that came with the Ti-bow?


Two areas that rarely get addressed in gun disarm training that I think are pretty important.

1) Setting up the initial move. Try and talk your hands as close as you can to the gun while supplicating. This works well to draw a gun closer to you if it's to far away. Try and get the bad guy verbalizing and make the move when he's talking.

2) Work from realistic gun holds and unconventional positions. If it won't work seated in a Smart Car, rethink it.

Having done this for real and lost some hearing over it it's strictly a last ditch thing.

So glad you weighed in. I did stay at a holiday inn while attending SN's class, so I'm at least smart enough to recall his teachings :p

[John Ralston]

That K9 vid so full of awesome...

[45dotACP]

Bob Taylor... There's a name I haven't heard in years (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=162570&postcount=23). Too bad phonyveterans.com is defunct, because their takedown of his claims of having dispatched forty Charlies in the bush using nothing but his knife was epic. Has he backed off on that or is he still passing on tales of Vietnam heroism?

ETA: Never mind, Wayback Machine to the rescue (https://web.archive.org/web/20030203090035/http://www.phonyveterans.com/Taylor.html)!
Aaaand here's my shocked face


-.-

I was genuinely interested to see what empty handed techniques Mr. Taylor believes could conceivably kill a (presumably healthy adult male) in 2 seconds though.

Anybody gonna drop the 93 bucks and write up an AAR?

[Patrick Taylor]

I remember when the claims were made against him and being on the internet I guess they must be true but I have never heard him make any of the claims. One of the claims on the phony veterans site I know to be false and if they were lying about more people than just Bob then maybe that is why they are not around anymore.

The ad copy is bad , really bad and I can understand the opinions some have because of it.

[Cecil Burch]

I was genuinely interested to see what empty handed techniques Mr. Taylor believes could conceivably kill a (presumably healthy adult male) in 2 seconds though.

Anybody gonna drop the 93 bucks and write up an AAR?


While not necessarily the techniques of killing someone in two seconds, here are some samples of other techniques he teaches and advocates. This compilation is taken from the TRS videos. Taylor is the dark haired guy with the long shaggy mustache.

http://www.break.com/video/self-defense-dorks-550680

[LittleLebowski]

While not necessarily the techniques of killing someone in two seconds, here are some samples of other techniques he teaches and advocates. This compilation is taken from the TRS videos. Taylor is the dark haired guy with the long shaggy mustache.

http://www.break.com/video/self-defense-dorks-550680

Frauds gotta fraud.

[Casual Friday]

I remember when the claims were made against him and being on the internet I guess they must be true but I have never heard him make any of the claims. One of the claims on the phony veterans site I know to be false and if they were lying about more people than just Bob then maybe that is why they are not around anymore.

The ad copy is bad , really bad and I can understand the opinions some have because of it.

Just curious, are you any relation to Bob Taylor or is the last name just a coincidence?

[Byron]

http://www.break.com/video/self-defense-dorks-550680
Oh man - I forgot all about that!!!!

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff330/byrong-tpi/flurries.gif

[LittleLebowski]

Cecil is the SME on this but it sure is nice to see how the self anointed warrior monks who trained with the master in his dojo on the mountain top have now been replaced by people that train and compete in a Darwinian evolved mix of martial arts that is completely verifiable.

[TCinVA]

When some nonsense comes along, you must gif it...

[Erik]

http://i.giphy.com/UjLiJ11Jb1S9O.gif

[BaiHu]

1912 had this guy beat before he was born:

http://youtu.be/FGmteZ0k0pc

[Kyle Reese]

Why does this scene from Tropic Thunder come to mind?

3017

[Shellback]

1) Setting up the initial move. Try and talk your hands as close as you can to the gun while supplicating. This works well to draw a gun closer to you if it's to far away. Try and get the bad guy verbalizing and make the move when he's talking.

He must've read your advice. ;) Article. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2923969/Incredible-moment-fearless-shopkeeper-snatches-replica-gun-raider-s-hand-chasing-store.html)


http://youtu.be/0tDeo7DSIrc

[BaiHu]

Wow that article is scary. "He says he snatched the gun away"... Look at the effing video. "Man apparently points gun" Apparently?... Again look at the video. Who are these retards that write the news. I wonder if the shop keep is just good at telling what a replica looks like and just went for it. Pretty ballsy move either way.

[JAD]

http://i.giphy.com/UjLiJ11Jb1S9O.gif

RIP bob 2.

[JAD]

He must've read your advice. ;) Article. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2923969/Incredible-moment-fearless-shopkeeper-snatches-replica-gun-raider-s-hand-chasing-store.html)


http://youtu.be/0tDeo7DSIrc
http://youtu.be/8xTqP58o1iw

[mc1911]

Sorry for the quick derailment but it that an actual incident ?

From the youtube description of this vid:

**This video is a training video of a deputy faced with a scenario and how he reacts under tremendous stress along with his K9 partner.

[Totem Polar]

1912 had this guy beat before he was born:

http://youtu.be/FGmteZ0k0pc

Love that clip! History...

So far as the BT stuff, I haven't thought of Randy Wanner and Greg Walker in a while.

[iakdrago]

I'm surprised that no one has brought up this gem from the East:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoXRCh2c3l0

[BaiHu]

Lol! Forgot about that one.