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GJM
01-15-2015, 06:21 PM
http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/eidolon-full-kit-pre-release-package/

LittleLebowski
01-15-2015, 06:32 PM
First thought that came to my head was the brilliant scifi Milkweed series (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AEC9IZW/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00AEC9IZW&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20). Not on topic, sorry.

JHC
01-15-2015, 07:22 PM
http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/eidolon-full-kit-pre-release-package/

I would almost buy it sight unseen. Literally in this case.

Edit glad I said almost. Finally got a pic loaded. No thanks.

JSGlock34
01-15-2015, 07:49 PM
The Soldier Systems piece (http://soldiersystems.net/2015/01/16/raven-concealement-systems-shows-us-next-big-thing-holsters-eidolon/) is intriguing. Lots of good pictures. Alas, appendix carry is not for me. Seems somewhat reminiscent of the Incog.

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/RCS-Eidolon-5.jpg

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/RCS-Eidolon-6-440x457.jpg

lightning fast
01-15-2015, 08:05 PM
Haven't felt a need to buy another Raven product. This isn't doing anything to change my mind.

JAD
01-15-2015, 08:15 PM
Sure, it's great for the two or three of us who have Glocks, but what about the rest of the forum?

orionz06
01-15-2015, 08:20 PM
The Soldier Systems piece (http://soldiersystems.net/2015/01/16/raven-concealement-systems-shows-us-next-big-thing-holsters-eidolon/) is intriguing. Lots of good pictures. Alas, appendix carry is not for me. Seems somewhat reminiscent of the Incog.

[IG]http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/RCS-Eidolon-5.jpg[/IMG]

[IM]http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/RCS-Eidolon-6-440x457.jpg[/IMG]

I dig many of the elements of it. I'd argue that it would be an insult to compare it to the Incog.

Cookie Monster
01-15-2015, 08:20 PM
I've got a bunch of Raven kydex, its OK. Not what I use everyday. Not feeling it for this new design.

Cookie Monster

Jay Cunningham
01-15-2015, 08:24 PM
I ordered one - I'm a sucker for good marketing I guess.

It helped that it looked really well engineered.

gtmtnbiker98
01-15-2015, 08:25 PM
Incog wannabe, IMO.

GJM
01-15-2015, 08:28 PM
No disrespect to their developers, but if I was serious about developing a fast appendix holster, Mr_White would be my go to tester.

Dropkick
01-15-2015, 08:41 PM
What?! No bolt on Bloodshark sheath to go with it!?

MD7305
01-15-2015, 08:44 PM
The Soldier Systems piece (http://soldiersystems.net/2015/01/16/raven-concealement-systems-shows-us-next-big-thing-holsters-eidolon/) is intriguing. Lots of good pictures. Alas, appendix carry is not for me. Seems somewhat reminiscent of the Incog.

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/RCS-Eidolon-5.jpg
E
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/RCS-Eidolon-6-440x457.jpg

Impressive if it includes all that hardware, would seem to be very adaptable.

MGW
01-15-2015, 09:14 PM
I like Kyle Defoor. He mentioned somewhere that he was working on a project with Raven but I didn't expect it to be appendix. I've never seen him do anything but behind the hip. The design definitely has a lot of flexibility.

taadski
01-15-2015, 09:14 PM
Incog wannabe, IMO.


That's exactly what I thought when I first saw it.

breakingtime91
01-15-2015, 09:25 PM
looks interesting, but I need more of a wedge then that it looks like those pad provide (I'm 5' 9" and 160 with a runners build.).. The price is also a put off for me but I do like kyle defoor and look forward to hearing peoples opinion.

MD7305
01-15-2015, 09:28 PM
The more I look at it and read the Soldier Systems link, the more intrigued I become. I also first thought "injected molded, INCOG repro" but I see some things about it that I really like. My Shaggy is four years young now and I've wanted to try something different just because so I ordered an Eidolon to try out. I may hate it but you never know until you try I guess.

orionz06
01-15-2015, 09:35 PM
looks interesting, but I need more of a wedge then that it looks like those pad provide (I'm 5' 9" and 160 with a runners build.).. The price is also a put off for me but I do like kyle defoor and look forward to hearing peoples opinion.

I would guess that the little outrigger piece may do that. Given the materials I suspect it has a chance of not breaking while being able to pull the grip in and not add much thickness. Think about how the SME works.

El Cid
01-15-2015, 09:42 PM
I like Kyle Defoor. He mentioned somewhere that he was working on a project with Raven but I didn't expect it to be appendix. I've never seen him do anything but behind the hip. The design definitely has a lot of flexibility.

Really? He's the person I think of when people talk about AIWB.

breakingtime91
01-15-2015, 09:43 PM
I would guess that the little outrigger piece may do that. Given the materials I suspect it has a chance of not breaking while being able to pull the grip in and not add much thickness. Think about how the SME works.

your tempting me, its really interesting to hear your perspective of holsters.

johncorey
01-15-2015, 09:46 PM
The "wedge" bolt on piece has been done before. Cane & Derby had/has it on their AIWB offering. Which incidentally was my first holster when I was converted to carry appendix by VCDGrips back in 2011.

My experience with that holster was that after a few hours of carry, that very wedge would cause a not insignificant amount of discomfort. After about 6 months of trying to 'adapt and overcome', I moved on to the Shaggy. Haven't looked back since.

I will be interested to see if Raven's wedge set up will have better results. I won't be jumping the Shaggy ship for this, for now.

orionz06
01-15-2015, 09:49 PM
I would honestly say buy one. You'll get it next week and if it sucks for you sell it, you'll break even when they're sold out. It has a few elements of what I would make if I had access to their equipment. There are obviously things I would do differently but given how other larger makers have dropped some turds I'd say they did a solid job.

Steve f
01-15-2015, 10:16 PM
so far i have been using this holster for months now

I find it comfortable
fast presentation times
great master grip on the gun
doesn't cant out even on my fat ass
gun grip is drawn in pretty tight if need be by the claw feature
its not an incog for sure its better in my book for me at least

Sigfan26
01-15-2015, 10:29 PM
Not a huge fan of the whole "erector set" principle... But, if it was for the 92G Brig Tac that i just got, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Alas, my Glock already had plenty of holsters.

ToddG
01-15-2015, 10:33 PM
I'm also not a fan of the multiple-use, multiple-option holsters in general. But with time the guys who do like to tinker will probably come to some conclusions about what you do and don't want for aiwb given different guns, different body builds, etc. If/when they come out for the 1911 I'll likely grab one to try out.

Default.mp3
01-15-2015, 11:25 PM
Sure, it's great for the two or three of us who have Glocks, but what about the rest of the forum?

In response to questions about alternate firearms models and WML compatible version, an employee stated this on SoldierSystems:


Other models are planned, but Glock is the obvious starting point based purely on production numbers.

We have a slew of new models of the Eidolon in store. It’s our new flagship line, so we will be aggressively supporting it.

EVP
01-16-2015, 01:20 AM
I picked one up. I don't care how it looks or whatever it may seem. If it is a good design, it's a good design and will prove so by trying it out.

I have been thinking about a holster design that would be like a kydex/plastic version similar to the SME to reduce the bulge that the wedge create, seems like this holster is going that direction. Another holster to try out....

Casual Friday
01-16-2015, 07:07 AM
I would buy one just for the integrated beard comb.

All kidding aside, if I had a Glock I would've ordered one as soon as they were available.

JHC
01-16-2015, 07:40 AM
Not a huge fan of the whole "erector set" principle... But, if it was for the 92G Brig Tac that i just got, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Alas, my Glock already had plenty of holsters.

I try to avoid holsters with nearly as many parts as my pistol. ;)

Trajan
01-16-2015, 08:06 AM
It appears to be too wide left to right IMO.

Since I first heard about this I've been kind of skeptical of the whole wing thing. Looks like it would dig into your hip without actually helping anything. Unless it makes the gun smaller, or bends the grip (literally) to fill the ab-hip trench, it probably wouldn't work for me. A G17 from AIWB is even with my hip...

But I'll try one if someone I know gets one and is willing to let me try it.

Irelander
01-16-2015, 08:31 AM
This does look interesting. I too appreciate Defoor. I will be interested in what Jay has to say about it.

MGW
01-16-2015, 09:44 AM
Really? He's the person I think of when people talk about AIWB.

I missed it then. I've never seen him use anything other than a Phantom. Never been to one of his classes though.

rob_s
01-16-2015, 09:46 AM
It helped that it looked really well engineered.

I actually came away with the opposite impression. Looks like it could be the star of a sequel to The Pentagon Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon_Wars).

I don't get modularity in these products. I think it only benefits the manufacturer, who then only has to make one holster body and a bunch of attachments, to no benefit to the purchaser.

rob_s
01-16-2015, 09:49 AM
Really? He's the person I think of when people talk about AIWB.

Quick youtube search shows his switch to AIWB to be pretty recent, at least from what I'm seeing. November of 2013 and he was traditional 4 o'clock IWB with a stock Phantom.

orionz06
01-16-2015, 09:52 AM
I know since the pic of him and Michael at his house he's mentioned AIWB often to include a bike trip he made while carrying aiwb.

Prior to that he was back and forth too.

Byron
01-16-2015, 12:35 PM
Modular holsters appeal to me because no matter how many times I've figured out, "This is what I want from now on," I eventually find something else that is just a little bit better in some way.

The modularity therefore appeals to me as a means of experimenting. I can't count how many holsters I own where I think, "Maybe this would be better if [tiny change]. Maybe. But I'm not sure enough that I want to spend the time and money to have a custom variation created with that tiny change."

Playing around with different configurations may therefore expose me to something new. Of course, it's arguable as to whether the individual configurations of this holster are unique enough to teach me anything, but I honestly feel like I've learned something from every holster I've ever used: no matter how good, bad, or multi-functional they were.

I'm very intrigued by the claw. I like the grip-tucking function of modern AIWB holsters, but can't deal with the extra bulge that most of them create. I'll be curious to see how the claw performs.

BobLoblaw
01-16-2015, 01:17 PM
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/48030160.jpg

El Cid
01-16-2015, 02:39 PM
I missed it then. I've never seen him use anything other than a Phantom. Never been to one of his classes though.


Quick youtube search shows his switch to AIWB to be pretty recent, at least from what I'm seeing. November of 2013 and he was traditional 4 o'clock IWB with a stock Phantom.

I think the pistol class we did with him was fall of 2012 and I could swear he was using it then. I've seen it on his FB feed over the last couple years but I remember that I never paid it much attention or gave it much credence until I saw him doing it. We did almost the entire class concealed and that's an area he excels as an instructor.

okie john
01-16-2015, 03:12 PM
I like Kyle Defoor. He mentioned somewhere that he was working on a project with Raven but I didn't expect it to be appendix. I've never seen him do anything but behind the hip. The design definitely has a lot of flexibility.

Same here. I'm a little taken aback by all of the little parts, but if it works then it works.

That said, I probably won't get one for a few months--bigger fish to fry at the moment.


Okie John

Jay Cunningham
01-16-2015, 03:34 PM
Pretty much everyone is referring to this as an AIWB holster, but RCS is not referring to it as one. It's clearly configurable for optimized AIWB, among other configurations.

rob_s
01-16-2015, 03:47 PM
Same here. I'm a little taken aback by all of the little parts, but if it works then it works.

That said, I probably won't get one for a few months--bigger fish to fry at the moment.


Okie John

Based on this photo, it seems to be trying to be all holsters to all people. Unsure if there's an OWB or competition answer in there, but there's a lot of recipe

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10375138_10152651187785687_3811199112450612590_n.j pg?oh=241fdbc28176302b49879603df63ef4e&oe=55668445

TCinVA
01-16-2015, 04:23 PM
Me too. I suspect it will work a bit like the wing on the 5-Shot SME, which I think does an excellent job of tucking the butt (phrasing) without adding bulk next to the gun.

Playing with mine so far it looks like you can choose the amount of tuck you want. No tuck, no additions. Moderate tuck, install winglet. Maximum tuck, install bumper pad + winglet.

JV_
01-16-2015, 04:29 PM
I don't really care if a holster was designed to be all things to all people. All I care about is the ability to get it dialed in for my needs.

I'm interested in this new holster.

MGW
01-16-2015, 07:39 PM
I think the pistol class we did with him was fall of 2012 and I could swear he was using it then. I've seen it on his FB feed over the last couple years but I remember that I never paid it much attention or gave it much credence until I saw him doing it. We did almost the entire class concealed and that's an area he excels as an instructor.

The ironic part is watching him use a strong side Raven IWB on video is what prompted me to start considering carrying there again.

orionz06
01-16-2015, 08:12 PM
Me too. I suspect it will work a bit like the wing on the 5-Shot SME, which I think does an excellent job of tucking the butt (phrasing) without adding bulk next to the gun.

Yup, except that now it's molded there are no breakage concerns like there would be with a kydex design when a similar feature.

Kyle Reese
01-16-2015, 08:15 PM
I'm game to T&E one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

breakingtime91
01-16-2015, 08:24 PM
I'm game to T&E one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

fred send it to me when your done. k thanks.

Jay Cunningham
01-16-2015, 08:26 PM
This does look interesting. I too appreciate Defoor. I will be interested in what Jay has to say about it.

I'll be happy to share my thoughts, but I'm not particularly enamored with appendix carry and there's a good chance I won't be using this holster in that carry mode - we'll see.

Alpha Sierra
01-16-2015, 09:49 PM
That looks uncomfortable as hell

MGW
01-16-2015, 09:52 PM
Pretty much everyone is referring to this as an AIWB holster, but RCS is not referring to it as one. It's clearly configurable for optimized AIWB, among other configurations.

That's true. It seems like overkill for a strong side holster though.

rob_s
01-17-2015, 07:51 AM
That's true. It seems like overkill for a strong side holster though.

Which is what happens when because:modular

LittleLebowski
01-17-2015, 08:35 AM
Meanwhile, I've got another JM Custom en route :cool:

TAZ
01-17-2015, 08:49 AM
It's an interesting design, but I'm also in the camp of it tries to do too much, maybe so much that it won't do any well. Like the idea of the soft removable pads, but I'll wait to hear some reviews.

Up1911Fan
01-17-2015, 08:52 AM
Meanwhile, I've got another JM Custom en route :cool:

You too?

LittleLebowski
01-17-2015, 08:54 AM
You too?

:D

Saw the IWB3 up for sale on here and LEAPT upon it.

Up1911Fan
01-17-2015, 09:35 AM
:D

Saw the IWB3 up for sale on here and LEAPT upon it.

I was eyeing that up too. I keep saying i'm gonna pick up a IWB holster for times when AIWB doesn't work for me. The only reason I haven't is I haven't really found a time where it doesn't. One of these days...I do have another JM AIWB in the que though.

El Cid
01-17-2015, 10:06 AM
The ironic part is watching him use a strong side Raven IWB on video is what prompted me to start considering carrying there again.

In my experience he seems to do everything well. If you get a chance to train with him jump on it. He's one of the trainers who can diagnose and instruct rather than just demo a drill and let the line try it.

As for holsters, I don't mind paying for 2 or three that do what I need. But then I don't have kids competing for my financial resources. Well - not 2 legged kids anyway. I'll keep up with how this holster does in the field though as both Defoor and Raven have always delivered.

MGW
01-17-2015, 10:58 AM
In my experience he seems to do everything well. If you get a chance to train with him jump on it. He's one of the trainers who can diagnose and instruct rather than just demo a drill and let the line try it.


He's on my bucket list. He's actually going to be relatively close to me this year. Just had the houses sewer line rebuilt and that's going to put a serious dent in my training funds this year unfortunately.

breakingtime91
01-17-2015, 11:02 AM
I am trying to make it to the class he is teaching in Wisconsin this summer..

TCinVA
01-17-2015, 11:39 AM
That looks uncomfortable as hell

So far it's not. I wore it all yesterday evening running errands and having dinner, all with no comfort issues. I need to do some fiddling with the ride height of the holster and exactly how I want to position the clips to get it dialed in, but it performed much better than I expected.

Tom Fineis
01-17-2015, 11:54 AM
Bias to follow.

The modularity shouldn't be surprising. Modular design has always been the cornerstone of RCS products. With as much gear as they have sold, the validity of screw-and-post bolt on attachments has long been proven.

If there is one constant in holster comfort, it's that everybody is different. Millimeters of adjustment can sometimes make all the difference. There are extremely popular holsters out there that I just flat out cannot wear, and I would expect the same to be true for the Eidolon.

The other constant in holster design is the number of people who seem to be able to judge its ability from an internet photo.

For me personally, I am the type that needs a lot of adjustment for an AIWB holster to make it work for me. This holster is easily the most adjustable on the market. Options are good, IMO. I've worn the various prototypes while this was in development and I think the final product encompasses exactly what RCS was intending to produce. I like mine a lot with a single soft loop (Ala VG2) and "the claw" attached.

Alpha Sierra
01-17-2015, 12:02 PM
The other constant in holster design is the number of people who seem to be able to judge its ability from an internet photo.
That seems directed at me so I'll reply.

I have worn and used kydex IWB or IWB/OWB holsters from at least six or seven makers and in various designs, RCS included, over the period of eight years. So far not a single one of them was found suitable for daily carry due to either unsatisfactory levels of print or unsatisfactory levels of discomfort. Those that were IWB only either were sold or sit in the holster box in my gun room. Those that were convertible to OWB use were converted permanently.

After this many attempts to find a comfortable kydex IWB solution, I have decided that I have no more money and time to keep experimenting. If someone wants to send me a freebie, I'll try it. If not, not.

If it's going to go inside my pants, it will be leather.

ToddG
01-17-2015, 12:04 PM
My general view of "modular" holsters is that they're not as good as purpose-built holsters, but as JV said above until someone can actually try the Eidolon (or any other modular holster) set up for his own purpose and judge it based on that alone, the rest is just speculation. Having been publicly negative on Raven's ACR and Vanguard 2, I am actually pretty excited to see how the Eidolon works out for aiwb. It seems to be leveraging the good ideas that brought the Shaggy and the SME to life all in one holster along with an ability to fine tune those features for individual preferences.

Up1911Fan
01-17-2015, 12:13 PM
Currently unavailable.

Byron
01-17-2015, 12:27 PM
FedEx says I should get mine by Tuesday. I'm looking forward to experimenting with it, and have a good half-dozen AIWB holsters to compare it against. Just as with each of those, I expect that certain features will lead the pack while other features might lag behind. Definitely curious how it will compare.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

Tom Fineis
01-17-2015, 12:55 PM
That seems directed at me so I'll reply.


Wasn't directed at anyone. Every time a new holster comes out, from any manufacturer, there is never a shortage of guys saying "Too uncomfortable" or "That will never work."

It amuses me, at this point. It's like looking at a rifle barrel and saying it won't be accurate enough for your needs.

LittleLebowski
01-17-2015, 01:19 PM
I'd like to try one but I'll wait until a buddy shows up with one. I don't need it and the price (while fair) is a bit steep for me to buy a holster to experiment with.

EVP
01-17-2015, 02:55 PM
Mine should arrive Tues as well. I am looking forward to trying it out since I have been wanting to try a design that uses this method of tuck instead of the wedge. I have had a number of AIWB holsters and want to compare the Raven with them.

ToddG
01-17-2015, 03:37 PM
Apparently I've had one waiting for me at my business address since earlier in the week. Just picked it up. I haven't even opened the box yet but look forward to giving it a whirl. No I just have to figure out where I put my G17...

JV_
01-17-2015, 03:43 PM
No I just have to figure out where I put my G17...It's over here :)
(well ... at least one of them)

ToddG
01-17-2015, 03:55 PM
It's over here :)

Funny. :cool:

I still have the original test gun and I've also got a cutaway that would also serve to test the holster around the house, though obviously that one wouldn't be suitable for carrying out in the big dangerous world.

Byron
01-17-2015, 04:08 PM
Put your SIRT in that sucka and you're good to go. Anyone who tries to attack you gets blasted directly in the pupils :cool:

ToddG
01-17-2015, 06:36 PM
The Raven Eidolon (pronounced ˈlɛɡəʊ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego)):

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/legoholster.jpg

Construction quality is unbelievably high. These are clearly not one-off holsters but precision machined (if that's what you call it) pieces of gear. Each individual piece is labeled/embossed with its specific placement and most have Raven logos or identifications on them, as well.

Once I've gone through the options and figured out what configuration(s) I'm going to try, I'll report more.

BJJ
01-17-2015, 06:38 PM
The Raven Eidolon (pronounced ˈlɛɡəʊ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego)):

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/legoholster.jpg

Construction quality is unbelievably high. These are clearly not one-off holsters but precision machined (if that's what you call it) pieces of gear. Once I've gone through the options and figured out what configuration(s) I'm going to try, I'll report more.

Looking forward to the report.

BaiHu
01-17-2015, 06:38 PM
So it's pronounced Legume or Legolas?

GJM
01-17-2015, 06:49 PM
Probably should start my next appendix survey to determine what percentage of forum members use the directions to assemble the holster?

JV_
01-17-2015, 06:53 PM
I removed your ability to post polls .... :)

LittleLebowski
01-17-2015, 06:56 PM
The Raven Eidolon (pronounced ˈlɛɡəʊ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego)):


Construction quality is unbelievably high. These are clearly not one-off holsters but precision machined (if that's what you call it) pieces of gear. Each individual piece is labeled/embossed with its specific placement and most have Raven logos or identifications on them, as well.

Once I've gone through the options and figured out what configuration(s) I'm going to try, I'll report more.

Oh, damnit. Kind of want.

ToddG
01-17-2015, 07:49 PM
Probably should start my next appendix survey to determine what percentage of forum members use the directions to assemble the holster?

I certainly will. I can't figure out how to start my car without the instructions.


I removed your ability to post polls .... :)

Love ya, bro! LIKE. +REP. Internet high five. Other stupid sayings!


So it's pronounced Legume or Legolas?

Click on the link, genius. :cool:

LOKNLOD
01-17-2015, 07:54 PM
The Raven Eidolon (pronounced ˈlɛɡəʊ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego)):


Dude whoever did the grip work on that Glock got way too aggressive with the woodburning kit.

Cecil Burch
01-17-2015, 08:07 PM
I have had mine for a bit under 24 hours and I find it very comfortable.

I have worn it as much as possible in the short time I have had mine, including just wearing it around the house. This morning I even took it to BJJ and rolled a couple rounds (with a blue gun in to be safe) and it held up perfectly (new tear in my favorite pair of cargo shorts though).

I was pleasantly surprised at the comfort actually. I think it may have something to do with the width and curves of the wedge, along with the curve of the end cap. The security/retention is really nice. Solid enough to stick in, but the gun is easily removed. Also, the holster itself is as smooth as any non-leather holster I have tried, so that may be a positive factor in the comfort as well. When I looked at it with claw on before putting it on my belt, I assumed the claw would make it feel odd. Instead I don't notice it and it does help concealability.

Being completely clueless with mechanical things, I had a slight panic attack when I took the components of the holster out and saw the instructions. My gut reaction was "I am going to screw this up". But I followed the instructions and kept looking at the provided pics of different configurations, and it came together in a few minutes. Super easy.

The only drawback I have experienced so far is that this is forcing me to carry a Glock right now rather than my P2000.

Jay Cunningham
01-17-2015, 08:08 PM
Thanks for the report, Cecil.

BaiHu
01-17-2015, 08:40 PM
Click on the link, genius. :cool:

Man, you get titanium in your system and all of a sudden I have to spell out sarcasm. They really effed with your funny bone.

I'm glad I didn't make an Ikea joke, that would've been even more obtuse.

Thanks for the detailed report.

NickA
01-17-2015, 08:50 PM
...this is forcing me to carry a Glock right now rather than my P2000...

Just couldn't resist that rebate, could you? :-)

ToddG
01-17-2015, 08:53 PM
They really effed with your funny bone.

It definitely took the brunt of things.

Did you get BaiHu's joke, Todd?
Never thought he was funny to begin with, Other Todd. Never did.

TCinVA
01-17-2015, 08:57 PM
I believe this is manufactured with a molding process which would be quite a step up from the old days when RCS was a couple of guys and a kydex press.

Steve f
01-17-2015, 10:24 PM
I believe this is manufactured with a molding process which would be quite a step up from the old days when RCS was a couple of guys and a kydex press.

correct a lot is now injection molded

rob_s
01-18-2015, 06:07 AM
Wasn't directed at anyone. Every time a new holster comes out, from any manufacturer, there is never a shortage of guys saying "Too uncomfortable" or "That will never work."

Nor is there ever any shortage of guys saying "oooooh lookie! That's what I've been waiting for ally my life and I can't wait to buy 12 of them!"

Casual Friday
01-18-2015, 06:58 AM
Nor is there ever any shortage of guys saying "oooooh lookie! That's what I've been waiting for ally my life and I can't wait to buy 12 of them!"

Weird, I didn't see anything like that at all. There were people who said they liked the modularity of it, and some of them ordered one to try out, and of course there's the folks that
http://www.adamandjoewatchmovies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/hated-it.jpg

LittleLebowski
01-18-2015, 08:04 AM
Nor is there ever any shortage of guys saying "oooooh lookie! That's what I've been waiting for ally my life and I can't wait to buy 12 of them!"

Another negative observation from rob!

Jay Cunningham
01-18-2015, 08:51 AM
Some of the same people who advise not to be "emotionally attached to guns/gear" seem to be okay with being emotionally opposed to guns/gear.

JV_
01-18-2015, 09:27 AM
However, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, I'm not terribly interested in hearing any more thoughts on others people's thoughts about this new product.

Agreed

littlejerry
01-18-2015, 09:42 AM
The claw aspect is very happy interesting. I'm genuinely interested in this holster.

Anyone know what the material is? It appears to be injection molded. Depending on the actual resin it may be vastly more durable than traditional kydex.

breakingtime91
01-18-2015, 10:02 AM
If I would of had the extra $99, I would of picked one up to try. That claw seems like it would help tuck my 19 great well... I am excited to hear knowledgeable appendix carriers opinions. It also would be cool if it worked for iwb also as I like options :D

Irelander
01-19-2015, 03:02 PM
It looks to me like the model specified for the G17 would be more comfortable in AIWB than the universal model. The G17 model has the rounded muzzle area which looks more comfortable than the "sharp" edges of the universal holster. I wonder if the extra length of the G17 model would pose any issues if used with my G19.

TAZ
01-19-2015, 04:23 PM
U guys that have them keep the comments coming. While I was skeptical of the jack of all trades I'm not too proud to eat crow if I deserve it.

TCinVA
01-19-2015, 04:57 PM
It looks to me like the model specified for the G17 would be more comfortable in AIWB than the universal model. The G17 model has the rounded muzzle area which looks more comfortable than the "sharp" edges of the universal holster. I wonder if the extra length of the G17 model would pose any issues if used with my G19.

So far the muzzle is really only noticeable if I'm using my g34. The addition in the bottom wouldn't change the way it carries, IMO.

Jay Cunningham
01-20-2015, 03:37 PM
http://i.imgur.com/HoN3Tyfl.jpg

Arrived.

Byron
01-20-2015, 04:00 PM
Arrived.

Just returned home to find mine as well.

As noted by Todd, build quality is outstanding. Now to start playing with all these attachments...


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

GJM
01-20-2015, 05:12 PM
Mine delivered while I was at the range just now -- will start putting it together.

GRV
01-20-2015, 05:12 PM
Just got mine as well.

Ordered one as soon as I got the email based on my positive experience with the Phantom. Even though I don't use the Phantom as a primary any more, its modularity was an eye opening experience for me. By playing around, I found that things I thought I wanted in a holster, I didn't, and things I thought I didn't, I did. I like options, and these RCS rigs give a lot of options.

I've been running a G19 JM AIWB/George lately and I find myself questioning how much wedge and tuck I actually want...hoping to experiment a bit with this. To be honest, the claw was the biggest draw, as I feel the "skinny guy wedge" on my JM may not be bringing me to my full concealment potential. Printing (while limited) seems to be all in that grip end, as usual.

Additionally, I'm excited to have an option in the closet that will facilitate tuckable AIWB and G17 or greater slide length, even if it doesn't end up as my primary.

EVP
01-20-2015, 05:19 PM
Did some draws and presentations. Feels smooth and generally good all the way around.

My initial impression is it seems to conceal the grip as well as the SME but without the bulge on the belt line and I can adjust it to have a higher ride height then the SME.

I'll continue to see how it carries the more time I get on it. Seems pretty solid.

Byron
01-20-2015, 05:41 PM
So.... it's only been an hour, but I'm fully in love with the claw: it's a skinny guy's dream. I don't even feel it there, so I don't anticipate any comfort issues, but time will tell. In the meantime, I'm just amazed at how much difference it can make without the all-too-familiar AIWB colostomy bulge.

After trying a few combos, my current configuration uses the claw, the wedge, and a single over-hook strut, mounted at the trigger area. The whole package stays very thin while still offering an amazing amount of tuck. No idea if I'll tweak it more in the coming days/weeks, but the only pieces that don't interest me are the extension wings. While it's likely that they are more durable than the older ACR, I've seen enough of those break to make me leery of wings in general.


I wonder if the extra length of the G17 model would pose any issues if used with my G19.
No issues. I chose the G17 model with high sweat guard. Figured I can always trim the sweat guard down if I want, but so far I like it. My G19 carries great in it.
In fact, I only ever carry my G19 in holsters made for a G17.

BJJ
01-20-2015, 06:22 PM
Thanks Byron and Kevin. Looking forward to some more reviews/impressions of this holster.

ffhounddog
01-20-2015, 06:35 PM
I got the Universal one.

Now just waiting on my HD sights and I can be a baller.

GRV
01-20-2015, 06:42 PM
Initial impressions: O_O

Started with just a single overhook at the trigger area. Concealability was on par with the JM, probably a bit worse. Super comfy; I can see now why people pass on the extra tuck with JM. I added the claw. Holy crap. Magic, pure magic. No change in comfortability, no belt area bulging, but massive concealability increase. Shirts I wouldn't dream of concealing with became passable, shirts I do conceal with are 100% invisible, even the slightly riskier ones. Then I put the rubber wedge in (the extra tuck). Speechless. Black magic. I am currently wearing a super tight shirt, form fitting, the kind that hugs everywhere on a skinny guy like me...and it's very nearly invisible. Past good enough to go out. If I cant it a tiny bit in, I get full invisibility. Shocked my better half. However, it screws the draw up significantly, so I compromised by canting back straight slightly.

tl;dr, my concealment wardrobe just massively expanded

Other notes:

The wedge leads to more felt pressure than without, obviously, but it is still extremely comfortable. Definitely more comfortable than the JM extra tuck. I attribute this to two things. 1) It's softer. 2) The placement and shape fits more naturally with my body contours.

The retention is really amazing. They've done something very special here, the marketing is not BS. I haven't touched the screw yet. It holsters tight with a firm click, but the draw almost had me second guess that there is any retention at all. If you slow down the draw you see that their description is spot on. All the tension happens in the beginning of the draw, and it is silk after that. Given how low and tight I'm running this, I will need to practice the draw to improve getting a fast grip, but so far it's acceptable.

I'm currently running it the same way Byron is. Happy with the high sweat guard, figured I'd trim down one or both sides if I didn't like it, but it's fine, and I definitely think the low would have been a bad choice given how tightly it tucks in against my skin with no undershirt. Only difference from Byron is I went with the 26/19/Universal since I run this really low and didn't want any extra length poking at my crotch/thigh. Plus, I like that it means I have a holster that can accommodate any length Glock if need be.

I'm going to run it this way for a while before fiddling any more or loctiting. The overhook is really sleek, offers a flatter profile than I am used to with the kydex loop, and blends in very well when I tuck my shirt in (yes, this is tuckable, and performs excellently that way). I haven't tried adding a second overhook yet, but don't think I will. Between the tuck, claw, and the supper flatness of the overhooks, it had me passing the nightmare "over-huggy-family-member" test with flying colors. The better half says she can't feel anything. No more nervous lean-in.

To summarize the whole experience, and extend Byron's words about the claw: it's a skinny guy's dream

GJM
01-20-2015, 07:16 PM
I felt like assembly was a mechanical aptitude test -- which I barely passed. I can imagine a small cottage industry will form with an unemployed PF member buying these from RC, assembling them in the most likely configuration, and charging an extra $20.

I REALLY like the pad. Seems much more durable than the pads with the Keeper, for example, but still comfortable. My config is two struts, the pad and claw. First I tried it without the pad and claw and it bulged. After the claw and pad, good concealment.

The instructions mentioned soft loops, but my box didn't have any? Speaking of the "box," I liked the packaging.

I think this holster will appeal to the kind of person who disassembles their new gun before shooting it, and to those that like the idea of a holster that will work right, left and behind the hip IWB/appendix, all with the same holster.

Jay Cunningham
01-20-2015, 07:34 PM
http://i.imgur.com/kpbKFHZl.jpg

Tinkering with conventional strong side IWB and settled on this after three tries. So my question to myself is: Does this do anything better than my leather VM2?

GRV
01-20-2015, 07:37 PM
The instructions mentioned soft loops, but my box didn't have any? Speaking of the "box," I liked the packaging.


Huh, you're right... I didn't even notice that. The website advertised them. Meh, I have some from the Phantom already and don't see myself using them. I imagine RCS will make good on it though, and I'd bet this is a widespread issue. Which holster length and sweat guard height did you get?

Agreed on the packaging.



I think this holster will appeal to the kind of person who disassembles their new gun before shooting it
Heh...funny you should mention that...:rolleyes:

Jay Cunningham
01-20-2015, 08:01 PM
http://i.imgur.com/wUQphRGl.jpg

Direct comparison of RCS Eidolon to Milt Sparks VersaMax 2.

BaiHu
01-20-2015, 10:51 PM
Video?

LittleLebowski
01-21-2015, 06:40 AM
I have the same comforter....

breakingtime91
01-21-2015, 06:51 AM
I have the same comforter....
So do I... Picked em up in oceanside :cool:

Jay Cunningham
01-21-2015, 06:52 AM
I usually sleep on the floor.

LittleLebowski
01-21-2015, 06:53 AM
So do I... Picked em up in oceanside :cool:

Dude....What would you do for some Colima's right now?

TCinVA
01-21-2015, 07:17 AM
After trying a few combos, my current configuration uses the claw, the wedge, and a single over-hook strut, mounted at the trigger area.

That's where I'm at right now, and it seems to be the most comfortable setup for me as well. As a point of reference, while I'm unquestionably beautiful I'm not quite the skinny guy that Byron is. The only mod I have is that I have one screw out of the bottom of the wedge bumper so it can slide around just a bit for when I'm getting up and sitting down. The material itself is quite grabby and letting it move a bit seems to keep it from pulling on the ol' boxers. (Or G-string, depending on how you roll)

It conceals as well for me as my other good AIWB holsters and does so comfortably. It's difficult to say that it's as comfortable as my other holsters like the SME because I've been carrying those holsters for years and there's a certain amount of learning exact placement and just flat getting used to the feel of them that's gone on in that time which is difficult to replicate in less than a week of daily carry so far.

LittleLebowski
01-21-2015, 07:24 AM
I'm unquestionably beautiful

Anyone who questions TCinVA's beauty will be banned.

breakingtime91
01-21-2015, 07:27 AM
Dude....What would you do for some Colima's right now?

The wife and I plan on going to see friends who are still there this summer. It's on our list of places to go lol

ToddG
01-21-2015, 07:56 AM
Anyone who questions TCinVA's beauty will be applauded.

FIFY. I see a new thread coming in the Romper Room: "TCinVA's Beauty Secrets"

LittleLebowski
01-21-2015, 08:02 AM
FIFY. I see a new thread coming in the Romper Room: "TCinVA's Beauty Secrets"

It's OK to be jealous of his hair, Todd. Let it go.

TCinVA
01-21-2015, 08:05 AM
http://i.imgur.com/CvC6V.gif

Jay Cunningham
01-21-2015, 08:09 AM
Video?

Was that directed at me? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just wanted to know what it was you wanted to see a video of.

orionz06
01-21-2015, 09:23 AM
I have no idea what BaiHu wants video of, but a video of a holster being worn is probably a lot better at demonstrating how well it conceals than the typical (and possibly carefully posed) still shot.

Maybe just a short walk up and down the catwalk showing a few positions?

Jay Cunningham
01-21-2015, 09:30 AM
Maybe just a short walk up and down the catwalk showing a few positions?

hmmm

Erik
01-21-2015, 09:32 AM
Dynamic prone would be a good test of the holster.

orionz06
01-21-2015, 09:45 AM
Dynamic prone would be a good test of the holster.

Yup.


And it would be a travesty if temple index was excluded from the video.

BaiHu
01-21-2015, 10:46 AM
Was that directed at me? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just wanted to know what it was you wanted to see a video of.
Anyone. I just don't see anything on YouTube and would like to see the concealment and movement if possible.

I have no idea what BaiHu wants video of, but a video of a holster being worn is probably a lot better at demonstrating how well it conceals than the typical (and possibly carefully posed) still shot.
Bingo!

Maybe just a short walk up and down the catwalk showing a few positions?
Preferably TCinVA with his well coiffed hair?

Dynamic prone would be a good test of the holster.
Perfect for Dynamic Pie Concepts.

orionz06
01-21-2015, 10:47 AM
I bet we could get Caleb to make TC do it!

EChryst
01-21-2015, 12:14 PM
So, for those who have them already, what do you guys think - for every day carrying a 19, but the occasional sim gun/SIRT length G17 - would you go with the G19/Universal/Open Bottom or the G17 length closed bottom.

My thoughts would be that with the 19 being the workhorse of the bunch, the 19/universal/open bottom would be the obvious choice, when the 17 length guns are used (rarely) they can hang out the bottom.

Agree?

MD7305
01-21-2015, 12:49 PM
One of the things I really like about the holster is the way the muzzle end is molded seamlessly. That's one of my "hot spots" with most AIWB holsters with a full size pistol. The edges of the seam really wear me out. I got my holster yesterday, configured it this AM, and I've been wearing it for about 5 hours. It's very comfortable, especially in the muzzle area of the holster.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/15b464384c0d390a1d0e3e6cd604b666.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/7bbd5e548239842dcf18f2dd26023a7c.jpg
Concealment is better than my Shaggy and VG2, my most used holsters. I think the "claw" in conjunction with the wedge make a huge difference in concealment and comfort. As others have said, retention is great, with a positive audible click when fully holstered which I prefer. The ability to use this as a tuckable holster is a feature that's handy to me in certain cases. The adjustability and versatility is a nice feature but my holster will stay configured as AIWB.
My biggest dislike is the ambi-body shield. I prefer a body shield and figured I could always trim the outside shield down, which I likely will. The instruction booklet made mention of ambi models and right/left specific models so I'm sure they'll be available in the future.
I look forward to more use of the holster, it looks very promising. I'm very satisfied. Here are a few pics, sorry no video.
Shaggy w/SIRT
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/99d5f891df1ff8a20253d230123ec540.jpg
VG2 w/SIRT
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/196e527a4f4d7c3d11348126c274001c.jpg
Eidolon w/SIRT
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/6c500246be53928570b38557253eb2a7.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/4dda38414cc4966aa6a954d2fc09194a.jpg
(Ignore Table Muscle Gut)
Shaggy vs. Eidolon
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/c3a72fb2ba85b061cc8496000c1d429e.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/f0708de04832b8314a8e8f7aba1fe1dd.jpg

BaiHu
01-21-2015, 01:10 PM
Thanks. That was as damn helpful as a video. Well done.

GRV
01-21-2015, 05:01 PM
So, for those who have them already, what do you guys think - for every day carrying a 19, but the occasional sim gun/SIRT length G17 - would you go with the G19/Universal/Open Bottom or the G17 length closed bottom.

My thoughts would be that with the 19 being the workhorse of the bunch, the 19/universal/open bottom would be the obvious choice, when the 17 length guns are used (rarely) they can hang out the bottom.

Agree?

This was exactly the same situation I was being faced with. SIRT/etc. was one of the reasons I was mildly regretting my decision to go with G19 length on previous holsters, but this one made it easy. I went with the 26/19/Universal for the reasoning you provide here, plus for the additional benefit of being able to accommodate even a 34/35 or L model if need be.

As I've alluded to in my earlier post, I also tended towards the 19 length in this and previous holsters to mitigate poking at the thigh/crotch while sitting, as I tend to run a pretty low setup between ride height and jean rise. So far so good; at times I've felt "yep, the 17 length might have been a bit annoying", and I have yet to feel bothered by the flat edge opening of the 26/19/Universal as opposed to the rounded end of the 17 length. But, I'll really need to give it a solid week or two before I can say anything definitive or have more developed opinions.

Jay Cunningham
01-21-2015, 09:10 PM
My draw feels faster from the Eidolon vs. the VM2... there's significant drag on the VM2. Reholster is smoother on the Ei as well.

I'm going to slice off the front shield/guard thing. I may tweak the cant slightly more forward. Otherwise strong showing so far.

TTS
01-21-2015, 09:16 PM
I have only had the chance to wear it for the last 6 hours, but I am loving it. Appendix carry has never felt so good.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg133/burris_craig_r/Glock%2034/553FF51B-D4C0-47E6-B28B-88066BC5142C_zpsklyrak51.jpg (http://s247.photobucket.com/user/burris_craig_r/media/Glock%2034/553FF51B-D4C0-47E6-B28B-88066BC5142C_zpsklyrak51.jpg.html)http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg133/burris_craig_r/Glock%2034/AD018A70-673C-4846-8D51-7E1F61AF3CD5_zpsaqchgmvk.jpg (http://s247.photobucket.com/user/burris_craig_r/media/Glock%2034/AD018A70-673C-4846-8D51-7E1F61AF3CD5_zpsaqchgmvk.jpg.html)
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg133/burris_craig_r/Glock%2034/510920BE-5F48-4C3B-8119-84BC56493D1F_zpssarrrnig.jpg (http://s247.photobucket.com/user/burris_craig_r/media/Glock%2034/510920BE-5F48-4C3B-8119-84BC56493D1F_zpssarrrnig.jpg.html)

Leonidas
01-23-2015, 10:18 AM
TTS......are you able to obtain a full grip on your Glock as you draw it from the holster? I had to position mine just a little higher in order to obtain a full grip.

EChryst
01-23-2015, 05:13 PM
TTS......are you able to obtain a full grip on your Glock as you draw it from the holster? I had to position mine just a little higher in order to obtain a full grip.

Same here, I had to set the screws on the upper two holes of the strut in an effort not to scrape my knuckles across the top of my belt and to obtain a full firing grip. Otherwise, I found myself rotating the gun in my hand during the draw to gain a "better" grip. Using the upper two holes, instead of the lower two holes makes me want to switch from the upward pointing claw to the downward pointing claw. I'll continue to monkey around with it until I totally figure it out....

TTS
01-23-2015, 08:51 PM
TTS......are you able to obtain a full grip on your Glock as you draw it from the holster? I had to position mine just a little higher in order to obtain a full grip.

I am, the picture shows a weird tilt after I tucked my shirt in behind it; I was actually surprised at how smooth the draw stroke was. I have tried a number of different AIWB holsters and none have ever been comfortable for the full day. The only issue I have is pulling out belly hair when drawing and reholstering:p.... I guess that won't be a problem for long!

LSP972
01-24-2015, 09:17 AM
Haven't felt a need to buy another Raven product. This isn't doing anything to change my mind.

Neither me. When I needed to get an OWB holster for grandson #1's Tom Givens class, Raven was highly recommended to me. The product was nice enough, but didn't fit the gun worth a shit, and thanks to the advice of another member I did manage to make the holster usable, after an hour or so's work with a frigging hair dryer.

The photos in post #4 show me aa well, not sure exactly what it is. It LOOKS like a holster, but all those pieces/parts? Then again, I have alway considered a "hybrid" IWB holster rather retarded, to the intense annoyance of CrossBreed/et.al. fans. So what do I know?

And this thing is intended for soldiers??? Anyone who has served knows that all those itty-bitty pieces/parts will be lost within 15 minutes of the package being issued.:D

.

SLG
01-24-2015, 08:49 PM
Been wearing it now for a few hours. Certainly seems to do the job, which should come as no surprise. It has a couple features that are nice and not found on other plastic holsters. I doubt I'll be giving up my SME's anytime soon, but a more extensive test of the holster is called for.

Tom Fineis
01-24-2015, 10:40 PM
Neither me. When I needed to get an OWB holster for grandson #1's Tom Givens class, Raven was highly recommended to me. The product was nice enough, but didn't fit the gun worth a shit, and thanks to the advice of another member I did manage to make the holster usable, after an hour or so's work with a frigging hair dryer.


Or you could have contacted the manufacturer and they would have fixed it with a quickness. I know the disappointment of a product not working on arrival (I received a flashlight today from a trusted brand with a broken tail switch), but it still surprises me people are willing to try to fix something themselves then bitch about the product. If you don't give the company a chance to do right by you, you kinda dug your own hole there. Even the best QC lets something slip from time to time. It's even more difficult when you're trying to closely match YOUR product to someone ELSE'S product with their own QC issues.

DanJ
01-25-2015, 09:20 AM
When will there be another run for sale?

GJM
01-25-2015, 09:29 AM
Been using mine four or five days. This product brings RC into the big leagues of top appendix holsters. They really broke the mold, or more accurately, made a mold, using innovative thinking to make a versatile and competitive product.

Casual Friday
01-25-2015, 09:49 AM
Been using mine four or five days. This product brings RC into the big leagues of top appendix holsters. They really broke the mold, or more accurately, made a mold, using innovative thinking to make a versatile and competitive product.

This is probably the most impressive review I've read about the Eidolon considering how picky you seem to be about things, and I don't mean that to sound offensive. You're just a guy that analyzes things much further than most.

willowofwisp
01-25-2015, 10:28 AM
so today I'm wearing two things which are quite innovative designs compared the norm. I've had the Eidolon now for almost a week and I'm really impressed. I've been wearing a Raven VG2 for an M&P or Glock since 2012, before that I had been using the ACR which was garbage IMO. This holster does a great job of concealing the gun while still being comfortable, and in the past I had found it to be a compromise between the two. Now I still do have a 5Shot SME on order and I'm really excited for it as I still want to try leather.I think for the price and modularity Raven really hit a home run on this platform and they will sell like hot cakes, and given the design/materials I'm sure it will be very profitable for Raven.

In the end this holster can't/won't work for everyone but it's a solution for me.


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7332/15742218044_73ea1a7fab.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pZ5YYu)IMG_3300 (https://flic.kr/p/pZ5YYu) by SiDave (https://www.flickr.com/people/53409939@N06/), on Flickr

LSP972
01-25-2015, 12:40 PM
Or you could have contacted the manufacturer and they would have fixed it with a quickness. I know the disappointment of a product not working on arrival (I received a flashlight today from a trusted brand with a broken tail switch), but it still surprises me people are willing to try to fix something themselves then bitch about the product. If you don't give the company a chance to do right by you, you kinda dug your own hole there. Even the best QC lets something slip from time to time. It's even more difficult when you're trying to closely match YOUR product to someone ELSE'S product with their own QC issues.

Well, Tom, two problems with that. Primarily, I didn't have time to return the holster and wait for a replacement. And that was IF I could have gotten a timely response to my e-mail. As it was, another member here (who had the exact same problem, and told me it was not uncommon) advised me on how to fix it. I followed his advice, and ended up with a usable product.

The only "hole" I dug for myself was taking too long to decide which holster to get for the boy. So if you want to put the blame on me, knock yourself out. I know now that I chose poorly, and won't repeat the mistake.

.

GJM
01-25-2015, 07:13 PM
I was on the fence about what config to get, since I wanted the inside sweat guard but not the outside part. It turns out the full sweat guard might have a benefit I had not considered -- in my casual testing, the outer piece seems to act as a guard helping to keep clothing, draw cords and the like from getting into the holster.

breakingtime91
01-25-2015, 07:24 PM
Gjm if you get time, would you consider doing a comparison between this and the jm?

GJM
01-25-2015, 08:25 PM
Gjm if you get time, would you consider doing a comparison between this and the jm?

I think they are both terrific choices (along with the Keeper, Dark Star, SME and Shaggy) . Concealment is similar on both. The Raven is obviously more configurable. The JM is available for all the different stuff I like. If you aren't into Lego, the JM comes ready to wear. JM is Tony, I can get him on my cell phone anytime, and he doesn't laugh at my latest request for some pistol that doesn't begin with G. The Raven and JM come at the same objective from a different approach -- the Raven through a modular design, the JM by Tony building you a custom holster to your exact spec.

JAD
01-25-2015, 08:43 PM
, the outer piece seems to act as a guard helping to keep clothing, draw cords and the like from getting into the holster.

Does it limit drawing with your support hand?

SLG
01-25-2015, 09:28 PM
I was on the fence about what config to get, since I wanted the inside sweat guard but not the outside part. It turns out the full sweat guard might have a benefit I had not considered -- in my casual testing, the outer piece seems to act as a guard helping to keep clothing, draw cords and the like from getting into the holster.

The sweat guards are designed to be cut off if you don't like them, so get the full sweat guard and cut the front one off. (Unless I'm misunderstanding you)

SLG
01-25-2015, 09:31 PM
Slight update on the holster, after wearing it for the better part of 24 hours - not a long time. The ride height is just not right for me. It is either too low for a proper grip, or too high to conceal as well. If there was an intermediate hole, or if the holes were offset a little up or down from where they are, it would probably be perfect. I suppose that's what custom holsters are for.

JCS
01-25-2015, 10:12 PM
When will there be another run for sale?

It's supposed to be available 90 days after the first run ended. That's what I read in one of their releases. Who knows what the price will be. I'm afraid it will be more.

Leonidas
01-26-2015, 09:01 AM
Slight update on the holster, after wearing it for the better part of 24 hours - not a long time. The ride height is just not right for me. It is either too low for a proper grip, or too high to conceal as well. If there was an intermediate hole, or if the holes were offset a little up or down from where they are, it would probably be perfect. I suppose that's what custom holsters are for.

That's where I'm kinda at right now.........it is either too low for a proper grip or too high to take advantage of the concealment attributes designed into the holster.

NickA
01-26-2015, 09:23 AM
I've always wondered why you don't see attachment points set in slots, allowing for adjustment, instead of holes. I assume the hardware would have to remain super tight to keep it in place, and/or the kydex would have to be really thick to keep it from being weak and flexy with a longer slot cut into it?

Casual Friday
01-26-2015, 11:10 AM
Maybe a 2nd set of belt clips with the hole orientation being placed in between where they're located on the other set? Maybe that's too many pieces, I don't know? I'm still interested in trying one.

orionz06
01-26-2015, 11:21 AM
I've always wondered why you don't see attachment points set in slots, allowing for adjustment, instead of holes. I assume the hardware would have to remain super tight to keep it in place, and/or the kydex would have to be really thick to keep it from being weak and flexy with a longer slot cut into it?

Fasteners become quite cumbersome to get most things to work well. There are only a few cases where I would want a slot for adjustment and fewer where I would trust the masses to not screw up.

DanJ
01-26-2015, 02:03 PM
It's supposed to be available 90 days after the first run ended. That's what I read in one of their releases. Who knows what the price will be. I'm afraid it will be more.

I wonder if they will sell them with only the accessories we need for our intended style of carry.

JCS
01-26-2015, 02:53 PM
I wonder if they will sell them with only the accessories we need for our intended style of carry.

That's what someone told me on another forum. He's knowledgable but I'm not sure where he got the info from. He said it will be the holster then buy the accessories. The people with them now will have to help us out.

TCinVA
01-27-2015, 07:21 AM
Slight update on the holster, after wearing it for the better part of 24 hours - not a long time. The ride height is just not right for me. It is either too low for a proper grip, or too high to conceal as well. If there was an intermediate hole, or if the holes were offset a little up or down from where they are, it would probably be perfect. I suppose that's what custom holsters are for.

I talked with one of the Raven guys about this very issue and there are soft loops and different overhooks in the works that will allow for more adjustability in regards to ride height.

I'm not quite in SLG's boat, but I would certainly like about another 1/2-3/4" of height adjustment, especially on the area around the trigger guard...and apparently that's going to happen when the full retail launch takes place.

Sam
01-30-2015, 10:29 AM
More attachments would be a good thing. In the low ride height I can't draw properly and in the high ride height the bottom of the clip strut on the trigger guard side digs into my delicate thigh.

However the tuck pad is extremely comfortable and works really well.

23JAZ
02-14-2015, 09:22 AM
I think they are both terrific choices (along with the Keeper, Dark Star, SME and Shaggy) . Concealment is similar on both. The Raven is obviously more configurable. The JM is available for all the different stuff I like. If you aren't into Lego, the JM comes ready to wear. JM is Tony, I can get him on my cell phone anytime, and he doesn't laugh at my latest request for some pistol that doesn't begin with G. The Raven and JM come at the same objective from a different approach -- the Raven through a modular design, the JM by Tony building you a custom holster to your exact spec.

I love my JM AIWB. The only area it lacks in is mounting options. I really wish he had a quality over the belt clip option.

SLG
02-14-2015, 10:43 AM
Been using the holster now for a couple of weeks. Very fast (not surprising given the ride height compared to my usual holsters) and very comfortable. Not nearly as concealable, but hopefully that will change with the soft loops. Overall I like it.

Tony Mayer
02-14-2015, 01:07 PM
I love my JM AIWB. The only area it lacks in is mounting options. I really wish he had a quality over the belt clip option.

Jay23 we do have a clip that works with my AIWB, it allows less rotational movement, and it's more concealable than the soft loops. Thanks

JLM
02-16-2015, 01:09 AM
I talked with one of the Raven guys about this very issue and there are soft loops and different overhooks in the works that will allow for more adjustability in regards to ride height.

I'm not quite in SLG's boat, but I would certainly like about another 1/2-3/4" of height adjustment, especially on the area around the trigger guard...and apparently that's going to happen when the full retail launch takes place.

The additional adjust-ability is great news! I think I'll pick one of these up. And to think I just got a Phantom literally RIGHT before these got launched. Go figure :rolleyes:

vandal
02-22-2015, 01:09 AM
I had trouble getting enough retention for two out of three of my G19s (all Gen 3). The two that need more retention are 5-6 years old, and the one that works is one year old.

Trying to increase the retention I tightened the retention screw too far and cracked the plastic loop surrounding the screw hole. Since they use a countersunk style of screw, it will lend itself to cracking the plastic with too much pressure. And since that tab is part of the holster body -- not easy to replace.

For the time being (i.e. until they have stock for a warranty return, and possibly a new run with more retention adjustment) I just put a washer under the screw. Still don't have enough retention for the older guns.

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac292/vandalpix/target/IMG_4255_zpsuk2xv2d6.jpg (http://s909.photobucket.com/user/vandalpix/media/target/IMG_4255_zpsuk2xv2d6.jpg.html)

GJM
02-22-2015, 10:41 AM
Having used the Raven for a while, I think the single best thing about it is the wedge construction and how it attaches to the holster body.

Paging Tom at Dark Star -- I have a design idea for you that will leapfrog Raven Concealment. Will appeal to the sport shooter, ECQC devotee and fitness geeks.

orionz06
02-22-2015, 11:38 AM
All ears.

GJM
02-22-2015, 11:43 AM
If it helps, Mr_White thinks also thinks it is a good idea, and thought you were just the guy to run with this.

First, some design objectives. Should be able to be worn left or right side, different positions, adjustable height, although concealment will be tricky. You still up for it?

orionz06
02-22-2015, 11:50 AM
Sure.

Up1911Fan
02-24-2015, 10:47 PM
So what was the big idea?

EricM
02-25-2015, 01:39 AM
So what was the big idea?

Whatever it is, I'd be happy to send payment right now. :cool:

In my experience so far I definitely prefer the claw of the Eidolon vs. added bulk to build grip tuck into the body of the holster. The bolt on wedge is a great idea but I'd really like some additional options...if the current wedge is a Medium, I'd probably prefer an XL or 2XL, and I'd like it to be softer and able to be placed more on the trigger guard side. I've taped additional foam onto mine. I also appreciate getting the attachment points off the thickest part of the holster (otherwise they are often the first thing to print for me).

In case anyone missed it (saw mention of it but no link in this thread), Kyle Defoor posted a pic of the upcoming height-adjustable soft loop strut on his blog (http://kyledefoor.tumblr.com/post/109712280143/since-raven-and-i-released-my-holster-at-shot-a) a few weeks ago.

GJM
02-25-2015, 05:33 AM
So what was the big idea?

Sorry, got distracted with all the raging -- will continue this in the RR cliff notes thread.

GRV
02-27-2015, 06:55 PM
In case anyone missed it (saw mention of it but no link in this thread), Kyle Defoor posted a pic of the upcoming height-adjustable soft loop strut on his blog (http://kyledefoor.tumblr.com/post/109712280143/since-raven-and-i-released-my-holster-at-shot-a) a few weeks ago.

Look at that. I carry a G19 Gen4 in an Eidolon and a Vic Explorer too. Must make me an operator. :cool: In b4 it's cool.


So I've had more time with the Eidolon now. Here's some quick thoughts. The big plus for me is still the claw and the big wide soft tuck pad. This is the bread and butter of the super concealment. Holster makers take note: This is what it takes for a skinny guy to confidently carry a normal size gun in normal clothing. Well, at least for me. The JM tuck is just a different breed. For me the Eidolon version works much better. It keeps the gun in very tight and doesn't let it move much. The JM version can sort of get cancelled out if it sits in my groin and even when it sits on a flatter spot it doesn't provide as much tuck and not as much extra stability.

As far as comfort goes, I'm not sure that it's any more or less comfortable than my JM, just different. There were times that the JM extra tuck would get stuck in an uncomfortable spot. That doesn't happen on this, thanks to the wide and soft properties. But if it slumps too low the wide open mouth of the universal holster can dig into my leg and get uncomfortable like a blunt edge. The JM is more streamlined in this regard. The super tight tuck and claw of the Eidolon means that I have deeper marks in my skin when I take my gun off, particularly without an undershirt, and I do feel the gun press there more, but it's not too bad, definitely worth the concealment benefits. With both holsters, over time you find the spot and pants height that works best, and they both evolve to the point where you "forget you're carrying it" in a sense. I think this also has to do with your body getting used to the feel and your brain nullifying it over time.

Re the "blunt edge" point, I suspect the G17 length with the closed end might be a bit more comfortable, and I might pick one up in the future, but I'm glad I got this one because I've already used it with a G34 once and I like having the option.

I got my SIRT a few weeks ago. To my surprise, I find it more comfortable than my G19 in this holster. I know, I know, everyone says this about the G17 length. I thought my body would be the exception. I was *sure* I couldn't comfortably carry a G17 appendix. Boy was I wrong. As I've said earlier in the thread, you really don't know until you try when it comes to guns and holsters, which is why I like the option-heavy Raven gear. The G17 length sort of acts as a surrogate closed end, rounding out the open bottom where it sticks out past it. The extra length does seem to settle it into the right place better and keep it better supported. More importantly, I can conceal the SIRT basically just as well as the G19.....Now I have a hankering for a G17...:rolleyes:

If I were to get my JM again, I'd get G17 length and normal G17 tuck. I think I should have listened to all the posts I read. I'm not sure if it'd print at the belt line, but the JM "skinny guy wedge" ironically compromises the most important thing for my skinny build: keeping that grip butt in tight. I'd probably also try to work with Tony to get a more dramatic and wider, softer version of the "extra tuck". When I get extra some cash, I'll probably reach out to him about this.

Now for the downsides on the Eidolon. Everyone has said it. I'm using the clip: At the high ride, I lose concealability. At the low ride, even my skinny fingers have a hard time getting in between the grip and pant/belt line, making my draws tougher. For now, I'm living with it and added some cant to counteract it. I'm looking forward to the future clip options though.

Also, although I love the thin, flat single clip, it is narrow enough to allow the gun the cant back and forth a bit more than I'd like. I'll have to think about this. I'm not sure I want to add the second clip. I'm also not sure if it is a big enough issue to outweigh the advantages it has over the JM-style kydex loop. It's a "different strokes" situation. The good news is that the tuck and claw keep the gun quite stable so as to not make this a big issue, but repeated draws and reholsters on the range can change the position a little bit.

That's where I'm at now. Still loving it. We'll see where it goes from here.

GRV
04-03-2015, 09:36 PM
A month later.

I'm in a "hate" swing with the Eidolon right now. Working on my draws lately, I've come to realize how much the low ride option is screwing me. The cant workaround I alluded to earlier has actually caused me to form a bad habit in my draw, and it didn't actually address the real issue; it was just an illusion. SLG hit the nail on the head, the low ride is simply unacceptable from a draw perspective, and the high ride option blows concealment.

I have a very temporary workaround using the short "wing" attachment in an inverted fashion so as to lower the strut/clip by half an increment. However, this requires that I add the second strut for stability, which is hacky as it can't really be set at the same height. It has also introduced some comfort issues, and some issues with letting the claw do its job, which I've worked around by stacking up a bunch of o-rings under the claw.

I'm going to get my hands on some soft-loop struts with the ride adjustment and see if that helps things. At the very least, the Eidolon has opened my eyes about AIWB holster features and matured my preferences. While I won't get rid of it (like the Phantom, it offers many options and is great to have around), it may be time to take what I've learned from it and invest in another custom AIWB holster.

EChryst
04-04-2015, 07:11 AM
the low ride is simply unacceptable from a draw perspective, and the high ride option blows concealment.

I'm going to get my hands on some soft-loop struts with the ride adjustment and see if that helps things.

Having the same issues, I ordered the ride adjustment soft loops (they come in pairs) from the site on Wednesday. Friday they showed up. It totally makes the difference. Since I can adjust them anywhere between the low and the high ride options, I've found just right, like Goldilocks and the porridge.

BJJ
05-06-2015, 01:35 PM
Having the same issues, I ordered the ride adjustment soft loops (they come in pairs) from the site on Wednesday. Friday they showed up. It totally makes the difference. Since I can adjust them anywhere between the low and the high ride options, I've found just right, like Goldilocks and the porridge.

I am seriously considering ordering this holster. If anybody else could comment on whether the soft loops solve the top high/too low issue, I'd appreciate it.

Byron
05-06-2015, 01:45 PM
I am seriously considering ordering this holster. If anybody else could comment on whether the soft loops solve the top high/too low issue, I'd appreciate it.

They 100% solve the issue. Paraphrasing myself from another thread... On a 1-10 ride height scale, the clips offer you a choice between 3 and 7. The loops offer you any value from 1-10, including decimals.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

BJJ
05-06-2015, 01:56 PM
They 100% solve the issue. Paraphrasing myself from another thread... On a 1-10 ride height scale, the clips offer you a choice between 3 and 7. The loops offer you any value from 1-10, including decimals.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

Great to hear. Thanks for your feedback.

uechibear
05-12-2015, 10:34 AM
When I look at photos of this holster with the bear claw attached, it looks like during the draw of the pistol you could accidentally jam your knuckles into the point of the claw that's sticking up. Has anyone had a problem with this, or is the claw under the top edge of your belt and pants far enough that it's not an issue?

GJM
05-12-2015, 10:45 AM
When I look at photos of this holster with the bear claw attached, it looks like during the draw of the pistol you could accidentally jam your knuckles into the point of the claw that's sticking up. Has anyone had a problem with this, or is the claw under the top edge of your belt and pants far enough that it's not an issue?

yes, with soft loops. No, with hard loops.

orionz06
05-12-2015, 10:47 AM
The claw is in what I would say is the proper location.

EricM
05-12-2015, 11:43 AM
This may be stating the obvious but it depends on the ride height and cant you have dialed in. My Eidolon is configured for AIWB with the clips in the high ride position and the claw is fully behind my belt...if I grab a little low I'm going to scrape my knuckles across the top of my belt, not the claw. I don't see why anyone would want the holster to ride higher than that with a straight drop even if the soft loops did allow it (just got my soft loops recently and haven't done much with them yet). I haven't tried the Eidolon with a forward cant, not my thing, but I suppose if you did that and chose to use the claw, it's possible the claw could stick up above the belt, but then I think you could probably just swap it out for the claw intended to be used when carring on the opposite side.

uechibear
05-13-2015, 07:26 AM
Thanks, Guys (last three posts). That's what I wanted to know.

DacoRoman
05-14-2015, 09:57 PM
Sorry if this has been answered, but does the G17 length version with the rounded/molded muzzle end also fit a G19? How about a G26? Thanks guys.

foxj66
05-14-2015, 10:37 PM
Sorry if this has been answered, but does the G17 length version with the rounded/molded muzzle end also fit a G19? How about a G26? Thanks guys.

I don't have one but, I will say that it should because i believe it retains the gun by the trigger guard area.

Mitch
05-15-2015, 07:48 AM
Sorry if this has been answered, but does the G17 length version with the rounded/molded muzzle end also fit a G19? How about a G26? Thanks guys.

Yes, it will fit both, just not the G34.

Crusader8207
05-15-2015, 09:06 AM
125mph I sent you a PM about the one for sale. Did you get it?


Yes, it will fit both, just not the G34.

Mitch
05-15-2015, 09:53 AM
Yes I responded, let me know if it didn't go through.

GRV
06-07-2015, 06:02 PM
I got the soft loops a while back. They fixed the ride height issue, and definitely add a lot of adjustability. However, I'm finding they print at the belt line more (might be because I'm running two now to fix the canting issue), resulting in more bulge under my shirt than I'd like.

I tried a SME for a P30 at the Epic Carbine Class and was blown away by the comfort in comparison. The Eidolon isn't in the same league for me. I didn't get to try the AIWB-CDA II, but a fellow forum member vouched that, for him, it's even more comfortable and concealable than the SME. I saved my pennies and have both an SME and AIWB-CDA II on order for the G17. We'll see how that goes.

Cool Breeze
08-08-2015, 08:28 PM
Has raven come out with clips (and not soft loops) that can address the ride height issue? If not - is it possible to just drill your own holes in the currently supplied clips?

orionz06
08-08-2015, 08:31 PM
Has raven come out with clips (and not soft loops) that can address the ride height issue? If not - is it possible to just drill your own holes in the currently supplied clips?

Yup, they've been out for a while actually. http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/copy-of-eidolon-tuckable-soft-loops/

saints75
08-24-2015, 12:18 PM
Is anyone still using this holster? How is it holding up. I am thinking about spending the money on it. It looks interesting and from what I have read it works really well. I am wonder if anyone is still using it and how they like it.

uechibear
08-25-2015, 07:49 AM
Is anyone still using this holster? How is it holding up. I am thinking about spending the money on it. It looks interesting and from what I have read it works really well. I am wonder if anyone is still using it and how they like it.

I still use mine with my G17, and it's holding up fine. The only thing I've had to do since putting it together is tighten the attachment screws on the soft loop when they became loose.

I still have a Shaggy, too, but I like how the pistol clicks into place with the Eidolon.

Jay Cunningham
08-25-2015, 09:13 AM
My sweat guard hickey snapped off.

Cool Breeze
08-25-2015, 09:31 AM
My sweat guard hickey snapped off.

The inside one closest to the body or the outside one? Full sweat guard or smaller sweat guard?

ssb
08-25-2015, 10:28 AM
The inside one closest to the body or the outside one? Full sweat guard or smaller sweat guard?

In my case, it was the inside sweat guard. It was a full guard. Raven was prompt with a replacement shell.

---

I've lost almost 30lbs since the last time I tried the Eidolon, but I recall the claw posing some comfort issues every now and then. The tuck provided for by the angle of the front attachment worked acceptably, but other holsters (JMCK, Keeper) tucked better on me. I also thought that the holster had a fairly wide footprint for what it was.

Having said all of that, I may revisit the holster now that I'm less fat; I recall others saying that this worked well (low/no belt bulge) as a skinny guy AIWB. It'd need the soft loops though. I really liked the clips. I didn't care for the ride heights I was stuck with.

Jay Cunningham
08-25-2015, 10:45 AM
The inside one closest to the body or the outside one? Full sweat guard or smaller sweat guard?

Inside one - I sawed the outside one off. Full guard.

Shellback
11-19-2015, 10:31 AM
Who's still using the Eidolon? What are your thoughts after using one for a few months? Or have you reverted/moved on to X?

Contemplating buying one and looking for feedback.

MGW
11-19-2015, 11:31 AM
I have a pretty long post about my experience with it in the AIWB thread. Not sure how to link back to it using Tapatalk or I would.

I like the holster but I still struggle to use AIWB 100% of the time. My body shape causes comfort issues with everything I've tried. The Eidolon comes the closest to solving those issues.

Shellback
11-19-2015, 01:20 PM
^^^ Just found it. Thanks!

GRV
11-19-2015, 10:29 PM
Moved on to a JRC AIWB-CDA-II. I'm getting better concealability, but that's in part due to making it ride a bit differently. However, I don't need to use the foam pad, which is very nice. Comfortability is arguably much better, except for when the very tall wing portion that the loop is mounted on ends up digging into my leg. Getting it in the right spot is a bit of an art, but I've been much happier with it lately than when I got it, and definitely don't feel any pressure to go back to the Eidolon. Still, I'd never get rid of it.

Cool Breeze
11-20-2015, 12:21 AM
Moved on to a JRC AIWB-CDA-II. I'm getting better concealability, but that's in part due to making it ride a bit differently. However, I don't need to use the foam pad, which is very nice. Comfortability is arguably much better, except for when the very tall wing portion that the loop is mounted on ends up digging into my leg. Getting it in the right spot is a bit of an art, but I've been much happier with it lately than when I got it, and definitely don't feel any pressure to go back to the Eidolon. Still, I'd never get rid of it.

I've been waiting to hear how the JRC worked for you!

GRV
11-20-2015, 12:38 AM
There was a short hate period. Wouldn't conceal and/or wouldn't be comfortable. Lately I've been pretty happy with it though. I feel like I'm finally settling in to it, but still need a bit more time before saying anything definitive. More than anything, I just don't have time right now to braindump the way I like to ;) I do think it is a bit slower than the Raven, at least the way I'm running it.

The SME is another story. Way late now, and the communication hasn't been exactly great :/


ETA: eyemahm is looking into getting a JRC too, and may be working with Jim on adopting a different, recent prototype job to reduce the height of that wing and improve comfort. I'll be following that closely.

Cool Breeze
02-18-2016, 08:47 PM
ETA: eyemahm is looking into getting a JRC too, and may be working with Jim on adopting a different, recent prototype job to reduce the height of that wing and improve comfort. I'll be following that closely.

Dove - Did this ever happen with eyemahm?

eyemahm
02-19-2016, 02:50 AM
Dove - Did this ever happen with eyemahm?
In process.

martin_j001
02-19-2016, 06:16 AM
I've been quite happy with my Eidolon, but only carry it at 3-4 o'clock. I get better tuck out of this holster than any other I've tried.

Slalom.45
02-19-2016, 06:55 AM
I have only been carrying for roughly 3 years, but the Eidolon is by far the best I have used for AIWB. I have had an Alabama and a Philster, both of which were excellent quality, but the combination of the wedge and belt claw makes the Eidolon conceal my G17 way better than the others. My 19 totally disappears.

Martin. I am surprised that you like it that well at the 3-4 o'clock position. I know they say you can run it there, but it's really for AIWB. Doesn't look like it would be comfortable there, but then again, it doesn't "look" like it would be comfortable for appendix, which it is!!

martin_j001
02-19-2016, 03:29 PM
Martin. I am surprised that you like it that well at the 3-4 o'clock position. I know they say you can run it there, but it's really for AIWB. Doesn't look like it would be comfortable there, but then again, it doesn't "look" like it would be comfortable for appendix, which it is!!

Several of my friends thought the same, but now carry in an Eidolon at 3-4 o'clock. I use the soft loops on struts setup on mine, and give it a good bit of cant... The butt of a 17 or 34 tucks right in, a 19 or a 26 is damn near invisible. I find the Phantom to be slightly more comfortable when carried IWB, but the concealment ability of the Eidolon makes the slightly decreased comfort (I've still worn it all day many times...can't carry at work) worthwhile.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160219/5ade9575e447ab96a30e0f5792ced8bb.jpg