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Tamara
08-06-2011, 08:29 PM
I have painted myself into a corner. I was discussing with an editor the idea of doing a story on living with a "long slide" polymer pistol as a day-to-day CCW piece for a month or two, and we wound up settling on probably the most common of the breed: The Glock 34. (I mean, hey, it's supposed to be "practical" as well as "tactical", right?)

So now I need to track down a conventional SS IWB holster for a G34 that's reasonably comfy at the 3:30/4:00 position I prefer. Suggestions?

(My usual CCW is a 5" 1911 in a VM-2 at the same location...)

LtDave
08-06-2011, 08:34 PM
Comp-Tac Infidel.

Prdator
08-06-2011, 08:35 PM
I've carried a G35/34 for a long time now.

For a 3:00 holster I would look at 5shot leather, Comptac infidel, Raven, or one of my custom Kydex rigs. Ive been running my G34 AIWB and love it. ( Keepers Kydex)

The really odd thing I found on the G35 IWB was it is more comfortable to wear than a G17..

orionz06
08-06-2011, 08:40 PM
Secret City Weaponeers K-25 (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1280-Secret-City-Weaponeers&highlight=secret+city) works very well for this location. I have no long term experience, just tried it and it worked well for that location on myself and the owner.

Tamara
08-06-2011, 08:55 PM
Secret City Weaponeers K-25 (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1280-Secret-City-Weaponeers&highlight=secret+city) works very well for this location. I have no long term experience, just tried it and it worked well for that location on myself and the owner.

Hells bells, I know Tony! I used to work with him! I had no idea he'd gone into the holster biz, but I can totally say that he's a straight-up guy and an honorable man.

I will look into the K-25.

JAD
08-06-2011, 09:05 PM
Interesting point. What kydex holster is most similar to the vm? They're seriously unobtainable right now and I wanted to play with one for a GM.

Seraph
08-06-2011, 09:20 PM
Hello, there.

My K-25 is an IWB/OWB convertible. It is named after the gaseous diffusion plant, K-25, in my hometown of Oak Ridge, Tennessee (aka the "Secret City"), where uranium was enriched for the first atomic bombs. It features a relatively aggressive cant of 25 degrees, which I consider ideal for concealed carry of a full size pistol, at about the 4:00 to 4:30 position (8:30 to 9:00 for the sinister pistolero). I also do a Y-12 model, which features a more orthodox 12 degrees of cant, which I consider more suited for about 3:15 to 3:45 (or 8:15 to 8:45). The Y-12 model is also available for applications requiring concealment of an attached tactical light (Surefire X300 or TLR-1). Here's a photo of a G22 in a K-25, with matching single mag holster (it was overcast when I took this photo, which gave it weird bluish tint):

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Trisagion/K-25%20G17/G17Coyote_web_01.jpg

Gadfly
08-06-2011, 10:05 PM
Crossbreed "Super tuck" with the horsehide back and combat cut sweat guard. Very comfortable for me anyway. I have never packed a 34 in it, but I have packed a 26 and a 22 in it...

http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/SuperTuckDeluxe/tabid/90/List/0/ProductID/1/CategoryID/1/Level/1/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName

jetfire
08-06-2011, 10:16 PM
I have been carrying my G34 in an IWB holster for about 2 months now, I've been using a Comp-Tac Infidel with a lot of success. It's a really nice holster, actually.

willowofwisp
08-06-2011, 11:15 PM
I would go raven concealment phantom or a comp-tac mtac.

JDM
08-07-2011, 04:51 AM
I have been carrying my G34 in an IWB holster for about 2 months now, I've been using a Comp-Tac Infidel with a lot of success. It's a really nice holster, actually.

No AIWB?

jetfire
08-07-2011, 12:37 PM
I'm not a big AIWB guy - my primary use of handguns is in a competitive setting, and I spend the vast majority of my practice training for that. I want my carry gun to be in roughly the same position as the competition gun that I'm used to drawing, so moving my carry holster to appendix would create another set of draws and motions that I'd need to practice.

Al T.
08-07-2011, 12:49 PM
It is named after the gaseous diffusion plant, K-25, in my hometown of Oak Ridge, Tennessee

So, when are you coming out with the "Big Ed's Pizza" holster? :p

Seriously, nice gear - hope to do some business with you soon.

(Grew up in Farragut in case you were wondering....)

JDM
08-07-2011, 01:03 PM
I'm not a big AIWB guy - my primary use of handguns is in a competitive setting, and I spend the vast majority of my practice training for that. I want my carry gun to be in roughly the same position as the competition gun that I'm used to drawing, so moving my carry holster to appendix would create another set of draws and motions that I'd need to practice.

Got it.

VolGrad
08-07-2011, 04:58 PM
This will sound like a lame answer but I generally don't recommend one IWB over another based on what the pistol is .... so long as it's not anything really weird. Of the choices presented the Secret City K-25 or Y-12 would be a great choice. Like most now though Tony has a looooooooooooooooong wait.

Other good choices would be Personal Security Systems or Comp-Tac CTAC.

If you need to get rolling to get an article going I'd say your best bet would be the CTAC.

DonovanM
08-07-2011, 05:45 PM
I'm not a big AIWB guy - my primary use of handguns is in a competitive setting, and I spend the vast majority of my practice training for that. I want my carry gun to be in roughly the same position as the competition gun that I'm used to drawing, so moving my carry holster to appendix would create another set of draws and motions that I'd need to practice.

Valid concern, but it only took me a day (more like an hour) to learn how to draw from AIWB after working strictly from strongside for the year and a half prior. All of the skills carried over.

DRINK THE KOOL-AID! :mad:

:D

Tamara
08-07-2011, 08:55 PM
No AIWB?

No, because The Gadget isn't on the market yet and Caleb might want kids. :p

John Hearne
08-07-2011, 09:13 PM
I carry a Sig P220 Match as my off-duty gun. It is not a small or light weight pistol but it's very doable. I use a custom VM-2 during the summer and a Comp Tac belt holster in the winter.

jetfire
08-08-2011, 12:49 PM
No, because The Gadget isn't on the market yet and Caleb might want kids. :p

There's that to consider as well.

vcdgrips
08-09-2011, 02:45 PM
This is a classically inspired Leather IWB that was a go to for me with my G34/35 before I went AIWB. Well made in Idaho by a guy that worked for Sparks 20+ years ago. Though the website does not indicate it, he can and has made one for a G34/35 that completely covered the muzzle etc. Wait time was 6-8 weeks as I recall.


http://www.leatherarsenal.com/SurpriseSpecial.htm 65 plus shipping for a "Summer Special " design with a "Shark Fin" which helps pull the gun in a bit.

YMMV

David Barnes

Ray Keith
08-10-2011, 10:32 AM
One well-known instructor carries a Glock 35 for his EDC, in an IWB holster. Doesn't seem to create much of an issue for him.

John Ralston
08-10-2011, 02:10 PM
One well-known instructor carries a Glock 35 for his EDC, in an IWB holster. Doesn't seem to create much of an issue for him.

His initials wouldn't happen to be T. G. By chance? I hear the holster he uses is awesome ;)

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

CK1
08-13-2011, 08:02 PM
I carried a 34 for a long time in a Blade-Tech "Nano", mostly at 3 o'clock, and never had a problem. I've had a Comp-Tac Infidel in the past, and in comparison I think tge Nano is better (thinner, better loops), inexpensive too, think it was around $40 + shipping.

I'd still be carrying this same set-up, but I finally broke down and decided to switch to a G19 like everyone else for a little more options in concealment as the 19 is much easier to wear AIWB than a 34 ever was for me, that said, I'm using Blade-Tech's $20 Phantom IWB with it and have no doubt it would work just as well with a 34, it works just as well as the Infidel and/or Nano IMO.

Paul Gomez
08-20-2011, 11:09 AM
This is a classically inspired Leather IWB that was a go to for me with my G34/35 before I went AIWB. Well made in Idaho by a guy that worked for Sparks 20+ years ago. Though the website does not indicate it, he can and has made one for a G34/35 that completely covered the muzzle etc. Wait time was 6-8 weeks as I recall.


http://www.leatherarsenal.com/SurpriseSpecial.htm 65 plus shipping for a "Summer Special " design with a "Shark Fin" which helps pull the gun in a bit.

YMMV

David Barnes

Elmer is one of the unspoken legends in the leather game. I've used his stuff more than anything else.

johnemckenzie
08-22-2011, 05:20 PM
Tamara,

I've been carrying a G35 IWB at 3:30-4:00 for almost two months and really like it. The holster I've been using is a Sidearmor holster with a 15 degree cant. Try it out.

Here is the link if you are interested - http://www.sidearmor.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4&products_id=19

maximus
08-24-2011, 07:01 PM
A close friend of mine actually has uses a Glock 17L for EDC . He is 6'3", 330 pounds. He uses a summer special IWB which has the open end... Im always thinking that during class he is going to get rather uncomfortable after a long series of shots but never does.

CK1
09-05-2011, 09:04 AM
Decided to go back to carrying a 34, no other Glock feels as "right" to me and none of the others work better in my hands.
After searching all over for a holster that would meet my needs (kydex, strong belt attachment, cant) I think i finally found one and ordered a SideArmor IWB with full-wrap belt loops and a left-hand 20 degree cant that should be perfect for 1:30-2:00 appendix carry... IMO the trick with appendix carry (especially with a larger gun) is finding a holster that'll position the barrel so it'll hug the crease between your leg and your "plumbing", do that and it's all day comfortable whether standing or sitting, even with a gun the size of a G34.

I'm hoping this works out as well as I'm thinking it might, I've found the issue with straight-drop holsters for AIWB is that they only really work for shorter/smaller guns (that sometimes feel like they're going to tip out) and their ride-height is never quite right to be comfortable as well as functional.

CK1
09-23-2011, 11:03 AM
Thought I'd post this as I seem to have found a set-up for carrying my G34 AIWB that works better than any other I've found... and it also just happens to be about the cheapest method too. I decided not to go with the Sidearmor IWB for the 34 after seeing a guy's rig at an IDPA match, too big and "pointy", lots of edges to stick you in your gut/thigh/leg/plumbing worn AIWB, it'd require far too much discomfort to get away with and I'd end up not using it AIWB (for 3 o'clock or further back it looked like it would work fine, but that's not what I/we am looking for...).

So... looks like I finally found a use for one of those cheap neoprene clip-on IWB's that many of us have thrown in some box for misfit/useless holsters (I've got a few for different sized guns that I'll sometimes use while I'm waiting for my "real" holsters to show up). Yes, they collapse after you draw, and reholstering requires extra care (though, reholstering AIWB requires full attention and some extra care anyway unless you want to die or shoot your pecker off), this isn't really a viable solution for someone who plans on doing all of their training and shooting lots with just this one rig (meaning high round count range days, matches, tacticool classes and such), but, if you're looking for an EDC rig that's as comfortable as possible and can be carried all-day this is working out surprisingly well, like better-than-anything-I've-tried-thus-far well.

Basically the problem I kept running into with most AIWB holsters is comfort considering in and out of vehicles, up and down in chairs, climbing ladders or hiking, etc. There are many good options out there, but nearly all have a common problem: either wear an under shirt behind the gun, or get one with a sweat-sheild, usually made of kydex, or in leather (which I think works better as far as the sweat-shield is concerned, but not necessarily holster-wise) that'll just stab you slightly less than the actual bare gun/rear sight would. The stupid $15 neoprene holster's sweat-sheild (uncle Mike's or Blackhawk, they're identical other than the tag) is soft and squishy though, and that's HUGE comfort-wise, and the neoprene "squishy-ness" helps for overall comfort everywhere else it touches you too.

Yes, normally the belt/pants clip is sketchy at best, either over the pants or over the belt, I wouldn't trust it not to have you pulling the holster out of your pants with the gun... but it seems the right choice of belt mitigates that.

Anyways, here it is: the ghetto-fabulous Uncle Mike's "Sidekick" (size 5) neoprene IWB paired up to a Blackhawk Instructors belt. By clipping the holster over the belt and then in-between the velcro belt-tail, it's locked in place and not going anywhere... all-day comfort AIWB with a Glock 34, the holster has enough flex to move with the body and for minor adjustments in position too which is a bonus. Doubt it's a rig that'll be featured in any Magpul-type "real operator" video or anything, but for day-in-day-out it's been working fantastic.

This rig has also given me an idea I might try out at some point: I think sometime in the future I might pick up either an CCC Shaggy, Blade-Tech, or Comp-Tac IWB for the 34 and bust out some scissors and epoxy, sacrifice one of these cheapo holsters, and make myself a kydex AIWB holster with a squish-fabulous neoprene sweat shield... (P.S. if any holster maker wants to take this idea and try it out, I'd love to beta test one for ya if you'll send me a free one!)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckarp007/45c5552f.jpg

Super J
09-23-2011, 11:56 AM
Hey ck1

Clever idea you have. Any pics with it on? I'm curious as to the grip...how is the height for acquiring the grip?

CK1
09-23-2011, 02:20 PM
Hey ck1

Clever idea you have. Any pics with it on? I'm curious as to the grip...how is the height for acquiring the grip?

I'll try to post a pic tomorrow but to answer your question about ride-height I'd say it's about perfect IMO, it sits high enough above the belt-line to get a full grip, but not so high that it prints or is higher than one would really want.

As an aside, after I made that last post it occurred to me that I could put velcro strips on either side of the belt clip to match up with the hook-and-loop surfaces of the belt for a little extra insurance that'd stay put on a hard as hell draw (though it's pretty much solid as-is), think I might try it...

vcdgrips
09-23-2011, 03:03 PM
CK1,

I am extremely uncomfortable carrying any pistol, let alone a striker fired pistol, in a holster that collaspe in literally the blink of an eye
and cannot be reholstered one handed with any degree of speed or safety.

Putting the clip issue aside for the moment as you "solution" has some merit, you are adovcating the EDC of a holster that you admittedly could not use in any meaningful training or classroom enviroment. It strikes me as counterproductive to EDC with one rig yet train/take classes with another.

As a long tme carrier of the G34/35 platform who has been going AIWB for the last 2+ years with it, I urge you in the stongest possible terms to reconsider. While I acknowledge that the CCC lineup (Shaggy and Looper) are difficult to come by at this time, The Blade Tech Nano, conventional Blade Tech kydex IWB or the injection molded model, with the judicious application of some moleskin would "work" until a more purpose designed AIWB became available. Even if they could not be had in a G34 size, they could likely be had in a G17 size and you could open the bottom up.


YMMV Greatly,

David Barnes

CK1
09-24-2011, 10:15 AM
David, thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate it and you make great points. I actually tend to agree with everything you said but for me, IMO only, part of what we're discussing is more ethos vs. practicality... meaning the "train with what you'll use, and use what works best" mantra, which I tend to subscribe to for the most part (thus carrying a 34 instead of something smaller), compared against what's actually everyday practical to accomplish my goal.
For me, my goal isn't and has never been to exclusively use AIWB as my method of carry/draw, frankly other than it's concealment advantages I personally think it's more dangerous, has more risk involved, and has drawbacks just like any other carry position (particularly in instances where subject control, ground fighting, and/or the loss of a reactionary gap is encountered... if you have any MMA training it's easy to see that AIWB has it's problems when you're on your back being mounted or forced down onto your chest), I actually tend to think 3 o'clock is better for working on my skills with the tool (gun), which is really my main focus training-wise, but to stay under the radar when wearing my usual casual style of dress AIWB cannot be beat, so for me AIWB is just more the spot where I have to position said "tool" some of the time...

For me, the rig I'm using has evolved from the lack of options to carry AIWB in a manner that's unobtrusive to my movements and activities, when putting all-day concealment as the goal first above all else. If I were to end up using my firearm Iin an SD scenario what's most important to me is that I had it when I needed it, and if used in such a scenario reholstering the pistol will most probably not even be necessary and the least of my worries, that said, I respect your opinion and can see how one's view on the AIWB carry position might differ.

This isn't a "done deal" as far as I'm concerned either, just what I've found that works out best for me thus far...

I'm going to order a Blade-Tech Nano and see if it'll work out for me, with the weather getting cooler I know it can be put to use in a 3 o'clock position at least even if AIWB doesn't work for me with it, but I'll certainly give it a try... I had one in the past, but maybe adding a "sweat-shield comfort modification" is all I needed.

JDM
09-24-2011, 10:49 AM
Tam, why not just use a versa max II for the Glock?

JV_
09-24-2011, 10:54 AM
and has drawbacks just like any other carry position (particularly in instances where subject control, ground fighting, and/or the loss of a reactionary gap is encountered... if you have any MMA training it's easy to see that AIWB has it's problems when you're on your back being mounted or forced down onto your chest), I actually tend to think 3 o'clock is better for working on my skills with the tool (gun), which is really my main focus training-wise, but to stay under the radar when wearing my usual casual style of dress AIWB cannot be beat, so for me AIWB is just more the spot where I have to position said "tool" some of the time...

I'd be interested to see more discussion on this, mostly because I generally hear your point, but then I read SouthNarc's take, and it's much different:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?120-AIWB-(Appendix-Carry)&p=1229&viewfull=1#post1229

Personally I haven't witnessed any significant advantage or disadvantage to A-IWB at ECQ ranges. It's just another way to carry a gun inside your pants. I think the advantages become more noticeable when the range opens up to "conventional" gunfight distances. I also think A-IWB has an advantage in confined spaces such as the driver's compartment of a small car.

The issues of where a gun is carried is not really pertinent in an entangled affair. Watch these evolutions and tell me if you think that ANY particular place on the body holds a distinct advantage over any other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eprLkelgB3M

http://www.youtube.com/user/soonerbjj#p/u/7/RTBk3rTjuNU

http://www.youtube.com/user/soonerbjj#p/u/3/zUrzzqAuf-o

The only thing I will say about holsters and placement for entangled shooting problems is that it seems pretty consistent that a leather IWB (regardless of where it's carried on the body) seems to offer better retention advantages. The gun tends to "bind" a bit more than kydex when it's torqued in the holster. This mirrors my own experiences when jumping fences and rolling around with crack dealers.

Just my opinion though. Nothing absolute.


http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?120-AIWB-(Appendix-Carry)&p=1263&viewfull=1#post1263

I may not have phrased that very well so I'll try and elaborate some more.

In the entangled shooting problems the key issue is the shooter's position himself not necessarily where the gun is produced from. The collision of torsos and limbs is so dynamic amd volitional that within a split second what was a damn good place for the gun to be for you is now the worst place for you to have to defend it.

Outside of entanglement problems, I think generally the gun in vasectomy carry is usually closer to the hand and centerline of the body thus quicker to produce to target relative to a linear drawstroke.

In the confined space problem especially like the bucket seats of some vehicles there's usually less movement required to access the pistol, such as leaning forward or shifting your hips as much.

Did that help some or did I just repeat myself?

CK1
09-24-2011, 11:53 AM
I'd be interested to see more discussion on this, mostly because I generally hear your point, but then I read SouthNarc's take, and it's much different:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?120-AIWB-(Appendix-Carry)&p=1229&viewfull=1#post1229



http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?120-AIWB-(Appendix-Carry)&p=1263&viewfull=1#post1263


IMO, Southnarc's take is a good one, especially "The collision of torsos and limbs is so dynamic amd volitional that within a split second what was a damn good place for the gun to be for you is now the worst place for you to have to defend it.", that's about as true of a statement as I've ever seen.

I guess which carry position is best or maybe has a "tactical advantage" has a lot to do with how one is trained to react, but none are the be-all-end-all, as in hand-to-hand CQ fighting, nothing really works out "as planned". For me, most of my hand-on-hand training stems from an active defensive posture that is a bladed position with weak-side forward, strong-side back from the assailant, so in a perfect world 3 o'clock is a great choice as the weapon is further away from the adversary and can be accessed by my strong-hand while my weak-hand/weak-side is occupied, but there it's also a disadvantage as if I'm caught engaging with my strong-side forward my weak-hand has no access to the weapon (and the BG has a better shot at compromising my retention) and until I throw effective weak-hand crosses or other maneuvers to create some space my weapon is out of play...

The thing for me is that I'm trained in and practice a lot of take-down and LVR maneuver (lateral vascular restraint) type stuff as it seems most close-in CQ fighting ends up on the ground in more grappling stuff than striking stuff, especially when ambushed or attacked by surprise when one is put on the defense and trying to close space vs. create it (when the old adage "safety lies in the heart of danger" applies), there, the advantages of having your weapon along your "power core" as is the case with AIWB (which is an advantage as far as retention and ambidextrous access is concerned) can become a disadvantage, as your hands if out in front of you will be most likely occupied, and attempting a draw from AIWB will cost you dearly against a trained or even untrained adversary and will mean that most certainly you'll be muzzle-sweeping some vital areas while under stress, not to mention as I said before in cases if you're mounted or pinned on your front where weapon access is taken away entirely (which is where a side carry position may still offer weapon access without having to muzzle-aweep yourself if you can free up that side).

This is a discussion that could go on forever really... and I'm not sure if there is even really a "correct" answer anyhow. Again, I think my main choice of sometimes AIWB carry has more to do with concealment reasons above others, AIWB I can hide my full-size pistol in only a t-shirt without fear of printing or being made, to me that's really where the AIWB carry option shines.

JV_
09-24-2011, 12:16 PM
a "tactical advantage" has a lot to do with how one is trained to react, but none are the be-all-end-allI have a hunch this is correct, and it brings up an interesting side item. You should take training classes with instructors who are familiar with a variety of methods, hopefully ones that include your chosen methods, especially if you AIWB.

I've been in a class and felt left out of a number of drills because they were all 3 o'clock oriented. There was no tip or sidebar for me, the sole AIWB guy, I was just trying to adapt the drill to something that I thought would work with AIWB. This lasted for a few hours and I felt kind of cheated on instruction.


This is a discussion that could go on forever reallyIf the discussion grows, I'll split it in to another topic.