"Managing" An Anti-Gun Spouse.

[GardoneVT]

While ive done my best to avoid dating such women , many of my gun owning friends find themselves "limited" once the engagement/marriage happens. A few .mil buddies are totally forbidden by their wives from owning firearms-one confided in me that he kept his guns with a pal to dodge that problem.

Whats a man to do about the issue,hypnotism excluded?

[Peally]

Sadly the initial decision should have been "drop her like a sack of potatoes", if she doesn't respect your values she's not worth wasting time on. JMHO but I usually make damn sure my values line up with someone before I decide to make any moves. I can't imagine living with anyone that was a militant anti-gun-in-house person, just like I couldn't live with someone that was militantly anti-dog or anti-beef or something.

That doesn't really help you at all, but I'll never understand some people's relationship choices!

[jetfire]

While ive done my best to avoid dating such women , many of my gun owning friends find themselves "limited" once the engagement/marriage happens. A few .mil buddies are totally forbidden by their wives from owning firearms-one confided in me that he kept his guns with a pal to dodge that problem.

Whats a man to do about the issue,hypnotism excluded?

Your friends are what, in their early 20s? Don't worry, they'll all get divorced.

[TR675]

Be a man about it. Or a woman if the shoe is on the other foot.

My wife doesn't like that I ride motorcycles. But it was part of the package and that was explained up front. I still ride.

None of that means don't compromise a bit. I got extra life and disability insurance and don't ride on Friday or Saturday nights now.

My wife likes to shop. We have a budget now so we can increase our savings. She sticks to the budget even though she would rather buy more super-expensive shoes.

Like Peally said - make a good decision in the first place. If you are dating or marrying someone who says "I don't like guns," that is fine. If you are dating or marrying someone who says "I don't like that you like guns," that is not.

[RoyGBiv]

Take them to the range. Teach them to shoot. It's been my experience (several times over) that even an anti-gun person can be won over with calm thoughtful discussion and some hands on experience. They might not warm up to a full embrace, but once the fear is gone it'll take on the characteristics of a more "normal" hobby.

If the GF/spouse is so opposed to be completely close minded, then, maybe it's not a relationship that has any future.
I tend to avoid intimate relationships with people who are closed minded about their irrational fear of inanimate objects.

First time I took my GF (now wife) to the range she out-shot me. Military brat!

[45dotACP]

While ive done my best to avoid dating such women , many of my gun owning friends find themselves "limited" once the engagement/marriage happens. A few .mil buddies are totally forbidden by their wives from owning firearms-one confided in me that he kept his guns with a pal to dodge that problem.

Whats a man to do about the issue,hypnotism excluded?
Buy your buddies' guns for cheep! ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist. It's a clash of values. If she won't stand a gun in the house...even if well secured, then it's time to throw the fish back in the sea. Trust me when I say the pond is never as small as you think. There really are lot of fish in it. Even fish in their mid to late 20s and early 30s

[Hambo]

Straight up, dump her. I've been married 25 years mostly because neither of us tries to exercise power over the other. If one of you wants to change/mold/shape the other one into something they're not, Caleb is right. Divorce is on the horizon.

[HCM]

Your friends are what, in their early 20s? Don't worry, they'll all get divorced.

This ^^^^^

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Buy your friends' guns, get cooler friends, prosper.

I will never understand the guys who say stuff like "I just bought X, now I have to hide it from the wife" or "it's a good thing she doesn't go in my man cave or she'd find all my guns" or whatever.

When I get a new gun, it's usually "Hey, check this out and tell me if you like the trigger more than your old 686" or "hey, I can't find an optic I thought I had around here. Did I give you an Aimpoint to put on your 12.5 recently?"

Even my friends' wives that don't really shoot are usually more of the "Oh, that is so cool and shiny! Let's plan a range day for everyone!" variety. Or at worst "just be careful".


In my experience, if you're cool and you have guns, guns are cool. So be cool, and keep the guns.

[ToddG]

I have to agree with the pessimism above. Marriages that have major philosophical gaps don't tend to be as long-lasting on average.

"The one who cares the least controls the relationship."

Either your buddies will accept that they're now gunless -- in which case they couldn't have really cared that much to begin with -- or the wives will relent because they see it's important to their husbands or the marriages will implode.

Couples don't need to agree on every single thing. But one spouse can't make all the important decisions for the other, all the time, without things turning ugly fast.

[gtmtnbiker98]

D.I.V.O.R.C.E!

[TAZ]

My wife was pretty anti gun when we first started dating. Took her to the range and things changed. We compromised in that I had to get a solid safe for my guns. After a while she pretty much lets me do as I want with guns and I don't give her shit about things she wants. So long as we are in budget neither of us gives the other any shit. If it's a higher value purchase $200 or over we talk first and check the budget. Basically we respect each other's needs and do the best to accommodate them.

Your friends will either get divorced, cower to their wives demands till it festers then get divorced, ignore their wives till it festers then get divorced or both parties can grow to learn how to have their cake and eat it too.

[Trooper224]

I've never understood why men get involved with women who possess major philosophical differences. I can understand the initial attraction, but a lifetime commitment with someone who's views are diametrically opposed to your own? T&A only goes so far and eventually falls like leaves in autumn, then what's left?. I've been married for thirty one years and don't see that changing any time soon. I don't let my wife do anything any more then she lets me, we're our own people not the others mouthpiece. If we'd had radically different beliefs we never would have gotten together in the first place, or at least stayed together.

Tell your friends to turn in their man cards along with their guns. You also need to provide them with directions to the sex change capital of the world: Trinidad, Colorado. If they're going to act like pussies they might as well have one.

[JAD]

Your friends need to spend some time trying to be better people.

From both a moral and philosophical perspective, divorce at the very least should be avoided at almost all costs. Getting divorced over something as stupid as guns would be a huge life failing. If your friends were so /impossibly/ stupid as to get all the way through the process of getting married without figuring out where the lines in the sand were, they probably do need some supervision making adult life choices, and having guns may not be a great idea anyway. If they're patient, and stumble over a crumb of maturity in the process of trying to be better people, they may find that their spouses' attitudes towards guns softens. Until then, they should take it as a cross and buck up.

[orionz06]

Tell your friend to move on. It will never get better, only worse.


Then trade him canned goods for his guns.

[GardoneVT]

Your friends need to spend some time trying to be better people.

From both a moral and philosophical perspective, divorce at the very least should be avoided at almost all costs. Getting divorced over something as stupid as guns would be a huge life failing. If your friends were so /impossibly/ stupid as to get all the way through the process of getting married without figuring out where the lines in the sand were, they probably do need some supervision making adult life choices, and having guns may not be a great idea anyway. If they're patient, and stumble over a crumb of maturity in the process of trying to be better people, they may find that their spouses' attitudes towards guns softens. Until then, they should take it as a cross and buck up.

I agree on general principle-however an ex of mine pulled a chameleon move where she hid her controlling nature until two months into the relationship.After it became clear being a jealous mess was her default state I cut her loose, but initially she acted like a decent human being and fooled me . Someone who kept the act up all the way through the wedding can put the guy in a pickle.

[Jay Cunningham]

The best thing you can do is lay down the law and say "this is how it is". Either she'll leave or - much more likely - she'll respect you for having a set of balls.

[JAD]

I agree on general principle-however an ex of mine pulled a chameleon move where she hid her controlling nature until two months into the relationship.After it became clear being a jealous mess was her default state I cut her loose, but initially she acted like a decent human being and fooled me . Someone who kept the act up all the way through the wedding can put the guy in a pickle.

People can change after years, and people /normally/ conceal their true negative feelings until commitment is obtained. That's the way we're wired. A good amount of premarital counseling and education can turn a lot of that stuff out. If your friends didn't bother with that, though, and didn't bother (unlike you) to wait for the other person to more informally express their true feelings, they get what they got. The best thing they can do is work through it and like I said take it as a cross.

Within that, though, there's a lot of sense in what Jay said. Both spouses control the house, I dig it. My car is my car. My storage unit is my storage unit. My pants are my pants. You have issues with what's in there, don't go there.

[hufnagel]

That's pretty much what I did, Jay.
I've learned with my wife, "new" things to her require the rip-off-the-Band-Aid approach; sitting down and discussing winds up with nothing but her hating the idea, whatever it is. Better to just do it, have her be pissed off for a couple days, then have things get back to normal once she realizes the universe hasn't ACTUALLY changed any. (My home carrying was/is a perfect example of that.)

Obviously your mileage may vary with your significant other; void where prohibited in all 50 states; no warranties expressed or implied; some assembly might be required; batteries are definitely not included; you may experience some temporary discomfort.

[SecondsCount]

Funny thread. If my wife didn't like guns then we would not have been married. Yes, it was that important to me.

[Alpha Sierra]

I've never understood why men get involved with women who possess major philosophical differences. I can understand the initial attraction, but a lifetime commitment with someone who's views are diametrically opposed to your own? T&A only goes so far and eventually falls like leaves in autumn, then what's left?. I've been married for thirty one years and don't see that changing any time soon. I don't let my wife do anything any more then she lets me, we're our own people not the others mouthpiece. If we'd had radically different beliefs we never would have gotten together in the first place, or at least stayed together.

Tell your friends to turn in their man cards along with their guns. You also need to provide them with directions to the sex change capital of the world: Trinidad, Colorado. If they're going to act like pussies they might as well have one.
We need a like button

[Alpha Sierra]

The best thing you can do is lay down the law and say "this is how it is". Either she'll leave or - much more likely - she'll respect you for having a set of balls.

When I got into guns, that's what happened. My wife did not want them at all. I said I am doing this and that's that. She eventually got over it. Doesn't want to shoot any of them, but doesn't give a crap what I buy, sell, or shoot so long as the family budget is A-OK.

BTW, that happened 10 years into our marriage and we just rolled over the 25 yr mark.

[23JAZ]

Funny thread. If my wife didn't like guns then we would not have been married. Yes, it was that important to me.

This is a great topic. My wife was not a big fan of guns either. However she understands that she isn't a big fan of them because they scare her, because she doesn't know enough about them (she actually came out and said that). First thing I did when I heard that was take her to the range and teach her everything I know (took 10 mins:rolleyes:). Now she isn't carrying one but she is talking about it and has actually asks if we could go shooting together pretty regularly.
All that being said if she wasn't openminded about it or just straight up said no guns in my house or around me, she would of never have seen date number 2. (Married 10 years last August)

[EricM]

If there's truly no room for discussion or compromise, and it's their way or the highway, opt for the highway. Otherwise, two mature adults should be able to talk about something like this, exploring the reasons they and their partner feel the ways they do. Understanding each other will likely lead to progress. Yes, owning guns or not owning guns is a binary proposition, but that doesn't mean the way to go is to just declare that your point of view is valid and your partner's is not.

My wife is no fan of guns. She wishes they didn't exist -- all of them, not mine specifically -- but she's realistic enough to realize that they do, they're not going away, and gun control isn't the solution. I did not own a gun when we got married. When I did purchase one, I did not have her enthusiastic support, but she understood it was something I wanted to do...she never said "no you're not getting a gun", I never said "I'm getting one no matter what you think". Initially, she didn't want to see it (i.e. pretending it wasn't there), so I respected that, for example closing the door to my office/workshop when cleaning a gun. I think it's important to demonstrate you are serious about safety in terms of secure storage and gun handling to negate the "guns are dangerous" fears.

Over time, it's been as RoyGBiv said - "They might not warm up to a full embrace, but once the fear is gone it'll take on the characteristics of a more 'normal' hobby." I no longer close the door when there's a gun on my desk. We talk about how my trip to the range was, how the match went. We watch Top Shot together. :) Last year, my wife asked to learn how to shoot, with the goal of protecting herself and our daughter when at home. We started with a safety brief and blue guns at home, moved to some dry fire and basic manipulations, then at a quiet range shot an M&P 22 followed by various 9mm pistols. She shot very well and claimed my USP Compact as her own.

In my experience, carrying a gun is likely to be the most difficult issue to deal with. I didn't initially buy a gun in order to carry it, so it was a separate process that came about a few years later. My wife was absolutely opposed to it, and I didn't push it right away. We had a number of discussions about it; one key thing IMO was narrowing the focus from vague fears about "everyone running around with a gun" to the specific choice at hand, me carrying one responsibly. It came to the point where I felt we fully understood each other on the issue but I recognized I would never get explicit approval from her, so without making a big deal of it I simply made her aware that it was something I would be doing.

Not long ago my wife was waiting somewhere with our young daughter and an older man commented on my daughter's beautiful blue eyes, that she was going to be a heartbreaker, and how we would have a hard time keeping the boys away from her. My wife responded, "That's why daddy owns a bunch of guns", and walked away. She may never like guns, but I think we've reached an understanding.

[Keydet08]

The third date with my now wife included watching a 3gun match I was shooting. Sink or swim...

[hurley842002]

I haven't read every response, so maybe it had been said already.

The key is laying everything out on the table while in the dating phase, that way there are no surprises, take me or leave me. I wouldn't marry someone that doesn't accept 100% of me, including hobbies and the like. One of the first things my wife and I talked about were politics and associated topics. We don't agree on a couple things, but are completely on the same page over 2a issues.

[JustOneGun]

While ive done my best to avoid dating such women , many of my gun owning friends find themselves "limited" once the engagement/marriage happens. A few .mil buddies are totally forbidden by their wives from owning firearms-one confided in me that he kept his guns with a pal to dodge that problem.

Whats a man to do about the issue,hypnotism excluded?

Don't let your buddy's wife find out you are "managing her". She may make him divorce you. ;)

[ranger]

Men marry hoping the women will not change, women marry men hoping they can change them -that old joke never works. This type of mismatch on gun ownership rarely - never? - work out.

[Kyle Reese]

Marry a chick who likes guns. Life's too short to try and change someone who is fundamentally opposed to private gun ownership.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CCT125US]

We dated, there was a test, she passed. I asked, she said yes. She likes purses and crap from Tiffany's. I enjoy guns, we both prefer HK. Life is simple, don't make it hard.

[MAP]

The best thing you can do is lay down the law and say "this is how it is". Either she'll leave or - much more likely - she'll respect you for having a set of balls.


My wife totally agrees with you!

[Casual Friday]

Guns aren't the hobby of the week for me. They are ingrained into me just like riding a motorcycle is ingrained into me. Sweartagawd, when I'm high up on a ladder or doing something semi sketchy, one of the first things that comes to mind after thinking about getting hurt is not being able to ride. I couldn't imagine even dating, let alone marrying a woman who was opposed to something that I feel so strongly about at my core.

Yes, there's been guns in my safe for extended periods of time that didn't belong to me because the rightful owner had run out of places to hide them from the screaching banshee at home.

[Mitch]

Do everyone a favor and buy your buddy's guns off of him so his wife can't take them in the divorce when it turns nasty.

Just don't be a jerk and jack up the price when he wants to buy them back later :)

[Terence]

Make sure you aren't doing any of the things in this excellent article: http://www.corneredcat.com/article/for-the-men/how-to-make-your-wife-hate-guns/

In my limited experience, there are women who hate guns politically, and women who hate them because their husbands or boyfriends spend tons of money on ammo and new toys, and vanish for long periods of time. Sometimes both, I guess.

And there's the couple I saw at the gun department of Kittery Trading Post in Maine -- an absolutely angelic young woman with her new husband. This clod is staring fixedly at the giant rack of ARs, and she says sweetly, with a tiny tremor in her voice "Honey, we can't spend all the honeymoon money on a rifle..."

Tragic novel in one sentence.

[Tamara]

In a post-Lautenberg world, dating outside one's species is reckless.

[JodyH]

In a post-Lautenberg world, dating outside one's species is reckless.
Troof

[El Cid]

Since we don't have a time machine, we can't help by avoiding your friends marrying women they likely should not have. Since they are stuck with a s**t sandwich I'd suggest they attempt to take the spouse shooting and maybe they will realize guns aren't so evil. In my experience people who are staunchly anti-gun either had a traumatic experience, have never been around them, or were brainwashed to believe that guns are evil. If it's because of lack of exposure or brainwashing the day at the range often opens their eyes. If they had a traumatic experience then it's possible but less likely in my opinion. But since they are already married - might as well give it a shot. Haven't seen too many divorces that were fun or inexpensive.

I agree with others though... If the wife won't come around then time to go separate ways.

[NerdAlert]

I guess here is as good a place as any. This type of situation is likely a byproduct of modern dating. People go on dates and are fake to impress the person because the intention is obviously romantic from the start. This leads to hiding things, puppy love, and eventually hurt feelings and divorce. Just tell your friend, or if you are single yourself, "live your life". I guarantee if you spend your life doing the things you love to do, with friends you actually like, when you meet someone you are attracted to, or your friends introduce you, you will likely have similar values. You can even begin the relationship without the romantic overtones and fakeness because your are just living your life. Then if you find you really like the person, you have common interests and values, an established network of common friends, and you actually know you like each other BEFORE the romantic stuff starts. I have fiends that have met their spouses both ways, and I can tell you that just taking things easy and loving life, meeting cool people as you go and eventually falling for one is the way to go. My wife and I knew each other and were friends for three years before we went on a date. We have now been married 10 years, have three kids, and not once have I been surprised by her temperament, moral or religious views, political ideas, or interests. We knew we liked each other and were a good match because we KNEW each other. I may get ridiculed for this post but I have been thinking it for a long time, and the prospect of some one getting stuck with an anti-gun spouse because they married someone they barely even know just set me off.


Sent from my iPhone, I apologize in advance for typos.

"Gustatus similis pullus"

[ToddG]

Agreed. Trying to "win her over" is often fraught with avoiding any chance to look contrary.

OTOH, the very first words I ever spoke to my wife-to-be were, "You'd look a lot better if you wore your hair down." Blissful for more than 23 years.

[Jay Cunningham]

OTOH, the very first words I ever spoke to my wife-to-be were, "You'd look a lot better if you wore your hair down." Blissful for more than 23 years.

Nicely done.

[RoyGBiv]

I may get ridiculed for this post ............
Very unlikely. Not here.



Agreed. Trying to "win her over" is often fraught with avoiding any chance to look contrary.

OTOH, the very first words I ever spoke to my wife-to-be were, "You'd look a lot better if you wore your hair down." Blissful for more than 23 years.
If you happen some day to meet my wife, one of the stories she enjoys telling is how much of an ass she thought I was the first time we met... and the second time... and..
In my defense, I was just being myself. ;)

[Trooper224]

I guess here is as good a place as any. This type of situation is likely a byproduct of modern dating. People go on dates and are fake to impress the person because the intention is obviously romantic from the start. This leads to hiding things, puppy love, and eventually hurt feelings and divorce. Just tell your friend, or if you are single yourself, "live your life". I guarantee if you spend your life doing the things you love to do, with friends you actually like, when you meet someone you are attracted to, or your friends introduce you, you will likely have similar values. You can even begin the relationship without the romantic overtones and fakeness because your are just living your life. Then if you find you really like the person, you have common interests and values, an established network of common friends, and you actually know you like each other BEFORE the romantic stuff starts. I have fiends that have met their spouses both ways, and I can tell you that just taking things easy and loving life, meeting cool people as you go and eventually falling for one is the way to go. My wife and I knew each other and were friends for three years before we went on a date. We have now been married 10 years, have three kids, and not once have I been surprised by her temperament, moral or religious views, political ideas, or interests. We knew we liked each other and were a good match because we KNEW each other. I may get ridiculed for this post but I have been thinking it for a long time, and the prospect of some one getting stuck with an anti-gun spouse because they married someone they barely even know just set me off.


Sent from my iPhone, I apologize in advance for typos.

"Gustatus similis pullus"

Well said.

[Paul]

Trusting .mil types to make responsible marriage decisions, ranks up there with trusting a member of congress with you wallet.....

Troop: "SgtMaj I'm getting married on leave."
SgtMaj: "You're 18 right? How long have you known this girl?"
Troop: "We dated for the last three months of high school and....."
SgtMaj: "Son, let me interrupt you for a second, and I'm being serious now. Is the there anything I can do to convince you to wait a little longer?"
Troop: "No we're in love and going to spend the rest of our lives together!"
SgtMaj let's out a dramatic sigh, does a face palm, and says "Okay son good luck, you're dimissed". The SgtMaj then starts preformatting Article 15s.

.mil types getting married with no idea about who they are marrying, or willfully ignoring signs of the impending train wreck is up there with the revelation that water is wet.

[Tamara]

I may get ridiculed for this post but I have been thinking it for a long time, and the prospect of some one getting stuck with an anti-gun spouse because they married someone they barely even know just set me off.

100% agree. The dumbest relationship-related thing I've ever heard anyone say is "Oh, I couldn't date so-and-so; we're too good of friends!"

So... you already know you like spending time with each other and enjoy doing things together, and this is a problem because...?

[45dotACP]

100% agree. The dumbest relationship-related thing I've ever heard anyone say is "Oh, I couldn't date so-and-so; we're too good of friends!"

So... you already know you like spending time with each other and enjoy doing things together, and this is a problem because...?

Well I guess some people take the sentiment "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" quite seriously ;)

[noguns]

After my first daughter was born it was " for the children".:D
Several pistols and ar15's later they are still " for the children".

Easy sell for me.

[psalms144.1]

Trusting .mil types to make responsible marriage decisions, ranks up there with trusting a member of congress with you wallet.....

Troop: "SgtMaj I'm getting married on leave."
SgtMaj: "You're 18 right? How long have you known this girl?"
Troop: "We dated for the last three months of high school and....."
SgtMaj: "Son, let me interrupt you for a second, and I'm being serious now. Is the there anything I can do to convince you to wait a little longer?"
Troop: "No we're in love and going to spend the rest of our lives together!"
SgtMaj let's out a dramatic sigh, does a face palm, and says "Okay son good luck, you're dimissed". The SgtMaj then starts preformatting Article 15s.

.mil types getting married with no idea about who they are marrying, or willfully ignoring signs of the impending train wreck is up there with the revelation that water is wet.Paul - so true. During my tenure as a Company Commander in the Army, I ended up having to "chapter out" (administrative discharge) five soldiers. One INTENTIONALLY ate his way out of the Army (which, in the end, I thought was pretty comical), one was for drug use, the other three were because their dependopotmus spouses spent them into such financial trouble that I, the NCO Corps, and Army Emergency Relief couldn't get them out of it. I had two wives (two) literally tell me that, as long as they had checks, they had money. And they believed it. The third spent more than her husband's base pay every month in the PX on the "Star Card..." EVERY MONTH.

Oh well, live and learn (or not). The sad news is, of those three I lost to dependopotomi, two were more than just "decent" soldiers that I would have LOVED to save.

Regards,

Kevin

[Kyle Reese]

Paul - so true. During my tenure as a Company Commander in the Army, I ended up having to "chapter out" (administrative discharge) five soldiers. One INTENTIONALLY ate his way out of the Army (which, in the end, I thought was pretty comical), one was for drug use, the other three were because their dependopotmus spouses spent them into such financial trouble that I, the NCO Corps, and Army Emergency Relief couldn't get them out of it. I had two wives (two) literally tell me that, as long as they had checks, they had money. And they believed it. The third spent more than her husband's base pay every month in the PX on the "Star Card..." EVERY MONTH.

Oh well, live and learn (or not). The sad news is, of those three I lost to dependopotomi, two were more than just "decent" soldiers that I would have LOVED to save.

Regards,

Kevin

IIRC in the French Foreign Legion you need to be a Sergeant (or higher) in order to marry. The most amusing chapter I heard of as an NCO was for failure to adapt. The "soldier" in question was in a sister company, and was just as fucked up as can be, claimed to be a Satanist, blah blah blah The last straw was showing up to a Class A inspection in PT's. He told his NCO that they were at the cleaner, but didn't remember which one. They were in his wall locker, balled up and had an iguana living in them.

Wasn't my soldier but it was pretty funny after the fact.

[Beat Trash]

Trying to "Manage" or to "Change" someone's core belief's after you are married is a recipe for failure. You mght as well tell the buddy to sell off his guns and put the funds towards his divorce attorney.

I "got into guns" at age 7, so it wasn't an issue of me discovering them mid marriage. I'm on my second marriage. Guns weren't the issue with the first wife of 16 years (the fact that she was nuts was...)

I remarried two years ago. My wife had no prior experience with guns. Her only issue with guns currently is that she found that she really likes shooting them. After introducing her to shooting an AR, her first comment was, "We need to start an ammo budget!". I bought her a Daniel Defense V5lw as a graduation gift when she finished a degree she was working on. It was the only way I could keep her from appropriating my DD V5 that I was using as a Patrol Rifle at work.

There are some things in life you should really know what you are getting into before you sign on the line. A Marriage is one of them!

[Tamara]

IIRC in the French Foreign Legion you need to be a Sergeant (or higher) in order to marry.

It wasn't looked on favorably in the peacetime regular U.S. Army, either, until relatively recently. Post-WWII, IIRC.

[Byron]

It wasn't looked on favorably in the peacetime regular U.S. Army, either, until relatively recently. Post-WWII, IIRC.
I had no idea that was the case. Thanks for teaching me something new today! (Something for which you have an awesome track record, BTW)

[stimpee]

I guess here is as good a place as any. This type of situation is likely a byproduct of modern dating. People go on dates and are fake to impress the person because the intention is obviously romantic from the start. This leads to hiding things, puppy love, and eventually hurt feelings and divorce. Just tell your friend, or if you are single yourself, "live your life". I guarantee if you spend your life doing the things you love to do, with friends you actually like, when you meet someone you are attracted to, or your friends introduce you, you will likely have similar values. You can even begin the relationship without the romantic overtones and fakeness because your are just living your life. Then if you find you really like the person, you have common interests and values, an established network of common friends, and you actually know you like each other BEFORE the romantic stuff starts. I have fiends that have met their spouses both ways, and I can tell you that just taking things easy and loving life, meeting cool people as you go and eventually falling for one is the way to go. My wife and I knew each other and were friends for three years before we went on a date. We have now been married 10 years, have three kids, and not once have I been surprised by her temperament, moral or religious views, political ideas, or interests. We knew we liked each other and were a good match because we KNEW each other. I may get ridiculed for this post but I have been thinking it for a long time, and the prospect of some one getting stuck with an anti-gun spouse because they married someone they barely even know just set me off.


Sent from my iPhone, I apologize in advance for typos.

"Gustatus similis pullus"


Best Friends first. Worked well for me, 25 year anniversary coming up, and been together for 28...

For me, I cannot see me philosophically aligning with someone who was anti-gun. Even someone who wishes they "never existed" to me is whacked, since then the strong control the weak. The firearm represents the great equalizer. It is not about the gun at all. It is about what it represents.

[NerdAlert]

Even someone who wishes they "never existed" to me is whacked....

I don't understand this logic at all. People who think this way must not have any concept of human nature. Were the Middle Ages THAT civilized? Before that? Slavery, genocide, and war are part of the human DNA. Bad people have hurt good people since Cane and Abel (or the first caveman with a rock if that's your flavor). Guns are just a byproduct of the human condition, just like atom bombs. We have always been a violent species, both towards other species and our own. wishing guns never existed is so childish I can't even reconcile it with ANY form of logic, and neither can my wife.



Sent from my iPhone, I apologize in advance for typos.

"Gustatus similis pullus"

[Peally]

Personally I'd rather be shot in the arm than be slashed with a longsword in the arm or have to rely on a medieval doctor to remove a bolt/arrow. Before firearms the world was just as brutal and the weapons were just as bad if not worse.

If they want to wish away violence they'd better start wishing away the entire planet.

[SamAdams]

IMO this is more than just an issue over personal 'hobbies' or a budget. This is about having the means to protect you and yours. That is the responsibility of every man.

Most of us have heard of 'the Darwin Awards' - given to those who make decisions which end up putting them at room temperature. Someone who will not defend their family and would actually interfere with their mate's capacity to defend the family, are Darwin Award candidates. Not someone to have a family with. Any 'man' who would put up with this is also deserving of the award.

[dbateman]

Hooker and a house keeper.

It's where it's at.

[Odin Bravo One]

I have "managed" two anti-gun wives.

Managed to not lose half my shit when I sent them packing. Managed to score a winner, pro-gun, avid shooter wife, who makes more money than I do, and smiles when I buy a new gun. Gets teary-eyed when I give her one.

[RevolverRob]

I dated a girl once who was jealous, controlling, and anti-gun. I was young and stupid and woke up one day and dropped her like a bag of rocks. I met my wife, and while it wasn't the first thing we talked about when we started dating, it didn't take long for the fact I carried a gun to come up. I just remember when she saw it for the first time her only question was, "Is that a Colt?" (it was). And I knew I had found the right one. Just to be safe though, we dated for four years before getting married. We celebrate four years of marriage in a few months.

Life is too short to drive an ugly car, to carry a gun you don't like, or to have a career you hate. So why do people think it is okay to date/marry someone who hates all of the things you like?

In my opinion, if a Person cannot share their thoughts, interests, and life freely with their partner they are going down the wrong road. Tell your friends the best way to manage anti-gun significant others is to dump them and let 'em know they don't have time for people who don't respect them.

-Rob

[Byron]

From both a moral and philosophical perspective, divorce at the very least should be avoided at almost all costs. Getting divorced over something as stupid as guns would be a huge life failing.
As a child of parents who waited way too long to finally get divorced, my personal perspective is different.

I don't see divorce as immoral.
I don't see a divorce over anything as a "huge life failing."
I think the value of the "stay together at all costs" strategy is highly overrated.

If someone's top priority is to "keep their vows," that's their prerogative, but I hope they remain cognizant of what impact they're having on the people around them. When Bob Smith spends half his time bitching about his wife, most people around are sick of him. They're not thinking, "Good for him for sticking this thing out!" When Bob and Jane, after years of resentment, decide that a child will "fix" their marriage, most people politely smile while thinking, "We all know where this is going." When that kid grows up in a home with parents who don't have a good relationship, most people will see that kid's suffering. Again, very few people are thinking, "Good for Bob and Jane for dragging a new life into this pit of misery they've dug themselves into!"

Life is too short. Divorce gives people a chance to move on without losing too much more of it. Not only do I fail to see divorce as immoral, but in a number of cases I think it's actually the most moral choice of all.

Given your wording, I'm assuming that your views are ultimately guided by religion. In that regard, I don't expect to change anyone's mind: just offer a different point of view.

[hurley842002]

As a child of parents who waited way too long to finally get divorced, my personal perspective is different.

I don't see divorce as immoral.
I don't see a divorce over anything as a "huge life failing."
I think the value of the "stay together at all costs" strategy is highly overrated.

If someone's top priority is to "keep their vows," that's their prerogative, but I hope they remain cognizant of what impact they're having on the people around them. When Bob Smith spends half his time bitching about his wife, most people around are sick of him. They're not thinking, "Good for him for sticking this thing out!" When Bob and Jane, after years of resentment, decide that a child will "fix" their marriage, most people politely smile while thinking, "We all know where this is going." When that kid grows up in a home with parents who don't have a good relationship, most people will see that kid's suffering. Again, very few people are thinking, "Good for Bob and Jane for dragging a new life into this pit of misery they've dug themselves into!"

Life is too short. Divorce gives people a chance to move on without losing too much more of it. Not only do I fail to see divorce as immoral, but in a number of cases I think it's actually the most moral choice of all.

Given your wording, I'm assuming that your views are ultimately guided by religion. In that regard, I don't expect to change anyone's mind: just offer a different point of view.
I grew up in an old fashioned protestant Christian home. No sex before marriage, divorce is unacceptable, etc. I don't have any experience in a divorced home (my wife does), but I could not agree with your post more, well said.

[SamAdams]

IMO it should never get to the point of having to 'manage' a spouse. On date one, when you're sharing your background and interests, I mention liking the outdoors - - hiking, camping, fishing, hunting, and shooting. Within the first few dates I would have a talk with the lady. Mention the quote, "Evil occurs when good men fail to act." And point out its not about being paranoid, but being prepared to act. Let her know I have a CCW and am carrying now.

Most of the time, mentioning hunting & shooting in date one weeded out those I wasn't compatible with. Never had a negative reaction when I had the "CCW talk". One was neutral, the others were actually very positive when they found out. They said they "felt protected".

[1slow]

As a child of parents who waited way too long to finally get divorced, my personal perspective is different.

I don't see divorce as immoral.
I don't see a divorce over anything as a "huge life failing."
I think the value of the "stay together at all costs" strategy is highly overrated.

If someone's top priority is to "keep their vows," that's their prerogative, but I hope they remain cognizant of what impact they're having on the people around them. When Bob Smith spends half his time bitching about his wife, most people around are sick of him. They're not thinking, "Good for him for sticking this thing out!" When Bob and Jane, after years of resentment, decide that a child will "fix" their marriage, most people politely smile while thinking, "We all know where this is going." When that kid grows up in a home with parents who don't have a good relationship, most people will see that kid's suffering. Again, very few people are thinking, "Good for Bob and Jane for dragging a new life into this pit of misery they've dug themselves into!"

Life is too short. Divorce gives people a chance to move on without losing too much more of it. Not only do I fail to see divorce as immoral, but in a number of cases I think it's actually the most moral choice of all.

Given your wording, I'm assuming that your views are ultimately guided by religion. In that regard, I don't expect to change anyone's mind: just offer a different point of view.

Full agreement, seen too many bad toxic marriages.

[Matt O]

I think the value of the "stay together at all costs" strategy is highly overrated.


Life is too short. Divorce gives people a chance to move on without losing too much more of it. Not only do I fail to see divorce as immoral, but in a number of cases I think it's actually the most moral choice of all.

I see where you're coming from and I think you have a point, but only to a certain extent. In my experience, most marriages that fail are some combination of, people not really knowing each other or jumping into that level of "commitment" before one or both are ready. Marriage is a commitment to working things out and staying the course (within reason) and is significantly helped by, you know, marrying a/the right person.


Given your wording, I'm assuming that your views are ultimately guided by religion. In that regard, I don't expect to change anyone's mind: just offer a different point of view.

For perspective: I was raised by intensely Catholic parents, but am not religious myself. My wife and I have been married for 5 incredibly happy years. I don't see the commitment of marriage as a (solely) religious issue. Like many things in life, including guns - make the right choice initially and many good things will follow.

[JAD]

Given your wording, I'm assuming that your views are ultimately guided by religion. In that regard, I don't expect to change anyone's mind: just offer a different point of view.

Right the first time. That said, my religion demands a very careful alignment of people before they get married. That doesn't always happen, and sometimes divorce (and ensuing chastity) is the only viable solution. Sucks for all concerned. Don't let your friends marry stupid, is the best advice.

[BobLoblaw]

Compounding negativity across time always results of some sort of casualty. Neglect, abuse, battery, assault, suicide, Nickelback, murder, and all sorts of nastiness were born through toxic amounts of negativity. If something is ruining your life, change it. There are always obstacles in marriage. Some love enough to overcome, some don't, and some ruin valuable time trying when the other doesn't bother.

I'm no Dr. Phil but doing what you think is right usually yields good results but they aren't always immediate. It's worked for me this far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Odin Bravo One]

My wife is without a doubt the best friend I have ever had. She is not as passionate about shooting as I am, but she is enthusiastic about shooting when we go, and thanks to SLG's lovely bride, has gotten into shooting matches, and seriously cries when I buy her a gun as a gift. Even though she is up to three AR's, she refuses to let me sell the used rifle I bought from Jay Cunningham to test the rifle waters, so to speak.

While deployed over the 2013-2014 holidays I told her the only thing I wanted for Christmas was her opinion on my buying a Mk43 for myself as a present. "How much do they cost?"

"About $55-60k, depending on condition, and configuration".

"I think you should do it if you want it".

I passed, even though I had the green light. So she bought me a Panerai as my Christmas gift to ease my suffering.

No, she doesn't have a sister. Sorry.

[JAD]

No, she doesn't have a sister. Sorry.

Damn, dude, I wouldn't pass on a brother.

[Byron]

I see where you're coming from and I think you have a point, but only to a certain extent. In my experience, most marriages that fail are some combination of, people not really knowing each other or jumping into that level of "commitment" before one or both are ready. Marriage is a commitment to working things out and staying the course (within reason) and is significantly helped by, you know, marrying a/the right person.
...
For perspective: I was raised by intensely Catholic parents, but am not religious myself. My wife and I have been married for 5 incredibly happy years. I don't see the commitment of marriage as a (solely) religious issue. Like many things in life, including guns - make the right choice initially and many good things will follow.
Just to clarify: I was not trying to say that commitment to marriage is solely a religious issue. I am not a religious man at all, but I take my marriage very seriously. We've only been married for 17 amazing months so far, but I 100% plan for this marriage to be my first, last, and only. I did not go into the marriage thinking "I'll just tap out if it ever becomes too hard."

I brought up religion because morality was raised. In my experience, when people ascribe morality to marriage, it's most often because of religion (or deep cultural standards that were originally rooted in religion).

As for most marriages failing because of rushed timelines and/or unexplored personalities, I don't have enough knowledge to agree with you, but I also don't have any reason to disagree with you. Still, if two people committed themselves to each other without really thinking it through, that strikes me as a better reason for both parties to move on than a reason for them to stick it out.

Say two people who really know and love each other get married, things go well for a while, but they fall on hard times. That's when I see immense value in working through problems together. They've already established compatibility, love, understanding, etc. Now it's time to apply those things. A storm is hitting the house, but at the very least you know there's a solid foundation.

But say two people get married too soon. Maybe it's too soon for their relationship. Maybe it's too soon for their age. Maybe it's too soon for what's going on in their lives. When (not if) these people hit hard times, it's a much different story. The looming storm stands to wreak far more havoc on a structure that never had a good foundation under it.

As you say, people need to make the right choice initially. But since many people don't make the right choice initially, that's when I think divorce is a really great idea. "We really shouldn't have gotten married in the first place, so let's end this..." seems much more reasonable to me than, "We really shouldn't have gotten married in the first place, now let's stick this out anyway."


Right the first time. That said, my religion demands a very careful alignment of people before they get married. That doesn't always happen, and sometimes divorce (and ensuing chastity) is the only viable solution. Sucks for all concerned. Don't let your friends marry stupid, is the best advice.
I agree with you on all points:

People should determine proper alignment before marriage
Sometimes divorce is the only option
Divorce sucks for all concerned
Avoiding a stupid marriage is the best strategy of all



...Neglect, abuse, battery, assault, suicide, Nickelback, murder...
Well played, sir. Well played :D


Damn, dude, I wouldn't pass on a brother.
HA!

[Matt O]

Just to clarify: I was not trying to say that commitment to marriage is solely a religious issue. I am not a religious man at all, but I take my marriage very seriously. We've only been married for 17 amazing months so far, but I 100% plan for this marriage to be my first, last, and only. I did not go into the marriage thinking "I'll just tap out if it ever becomes too hard."

Understood and I don't think you said solely - in retrospect that looks like something I may have interpreted/inserted into the dialogue.


As you say, people need to make the right choice initially. But since many people don't make the right choice initially, that's when I think divorce is a really great idea. "We really shouldn't have gotten married in the first place, so let's end this..." seems much more reasonable to me than, "We really shouldn't have gotten married in the first place, now let's stick this out anyway."

Agreed - if irreconcilable differences exist, it may be best to end it rather than making the couple, and potentially everyone around them, miserable.

[Aray]

When things finally came to a head in my house, I was asked "What would you say if I told you you had to pick between your guns and me?"

"Pack your shit."

We just had a 20th anniversary party last Friday night.

I dedicated a song to her at the beginning, "I ain't wrong, I ain't sorry, and it's probably gonna happen again" is the chorus.

[RoyGBiv]

I dedicated a song to her at the beginning, "I ain't wrong, I ain't sorry, and it's probably gonna happen again" is the chorus.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUk0JTGI93E