Agency ditching M&P 40 due to firing pin breaks and light strikes

[LockedBreech]

I prefer not to share my jurisdiction and what agency I am speaking about on the internet, but I just discussed at length with one of our officers who serves with a roughly 300-strong agency. He told me that the agency is switching away from M&P 40 fullsize after 3-4 years. He stated they have had multiple firing pin breakages and light strikes, and after a recent OIS they started evaluating all their systems. They are sticking with .40 since they're a highway-focal agency and the vast majority of their contacts involve traffic stops, but swapping to the Gen 4 longslide Glock .40 (I believe it's the G35?). Before the M&P40, they had Gen 3 Glock 22s for about a decade. I guess the general consensus after a few years with the M&P is that this agency missed their Glocks.

When I was examining his M&P (very tolerant officer putting up with a gun nut prosecutor) it looked like they issued Winchester PDX1 or Ranger Bonded. Wonder if there's a primer issue.

Just an interesting data point, may mean nothing but I thought I'd share with you guys. Interesting that the full-size .40 has always been the M&P that wasn't really a problem child.

[orionz06]

How old are the guns? The striker has been replaced a few times and last I knew had a hefty life now.

[DocGKR]

Yup. Current M&P strikers are generally good to go with no problems.

The M&P40 seemed to work accurately and effectively in the Austin OIS recently...

[LockedBreech]

Yup. Current M&P strikers are generally good to go with no problems.

The M&P40 seemed to work accurately and effectively in the Austin OIS recently...

orion: Guns are about 3-4 years old.

To be honest, this agency is a tad fickle. They've switched with decent frequency. The 10 years they had the G22 was the longest stretch of time they've gone with a sidearm. They're also extremely well-funded, so they can basically get shiny new ones whenever they want. In my area law enforcement has a fairly pronounced preference for Glocks and 1911s and not much patience for anything else. I know the M&P 40 has a fairly strong record in service, so my skepticism was going off a bit as well.

The good news is that the M&Ps were ordered with pretty cool-looking livery and I have an inside line on a fairly lightly used one when they switch back. I'll buy it in a heartbeat.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'm sure the taxpayers appreciate their fiscal fickleness

[ToddG]

As soon as I read "Glock 35" for uniform LE issue, my FOTM radar starts pinging.

[LockedBreech]

Chuck, as one of those taxpayers myself, I can honestly say I'm not super thrilled about it. If they're having firing pin issues they should get in touch with Smith. I think the M&P 40 is a fundamentally solid design and I don't think a new platform is needed. I see why the issues would concern them, but jettisoning the platform seems premature.


As soon as I read "Glock 35" for uniform LE issue, my FOTM radar starts pinging.

I thought it was a weird choice, too. I do not like longslide guns at all for serious carry/uniform work. Seems like that extra length just makes for a slower draw, and it's not like the 22 or 17 have any issues with excellent terminal ballistics and accuracy with enough practice.

Plus, subjectively, I think the longslides are an order of magnitude fuglier than normal Glocks.

[Symmetry]

+1 with Todd. Any agency considering issuing a long slide Glock has got a little half-tard in their genetics.

If parts breakage is a concern, then perhaps they should consider the fact that the .40S&W is notoriously hard on firearms. Austin PD, who I have relatives on, uses 165gr full power Gold Dots, and just about every officer on the force has had something break on their M&P before they are out of rookie stage. The most durable .40s outside of the old school all steel Smiths, are probably the classic Sig Sauer line. Even then, they tend to wear down fast compared to their counterparts as I have witnessed in Federal service for the last 15yrs. At this time, I just haven't observed a striker fired .40 that lasts very long, or that I would trust to not break a major part on me in a fight compared to other service caliber alternatives.

[LockedBreech]

My hammer-fired Beretta PX4 .40 looks great and is nearing 10k rounds (which around here is basically a test period, I know). Are striker-fired systems inherently more sensitive to recoil impulse and wear than hammer-fired systems?

There's no argument that .40 is more brisk on the equipment, we saw that with the Beretta 96 early models, among other guns, but considering the M&P line was developed around the .40, I'm not sure why wear would be such an issue.

These are definitely not super high round count guns, either, considering they're police carry guns and only 3-4 years old. The one I held today was in pretty great shape still, visually.

[JBP55]

At least 3 LEA's in my Parish/County use G34/G35 pistols with excellent results. A local SWAT went approximately 100,000 rounds on their Gen 3 G35's in about 10 years and last year traded them for Gen 4 G35's. almost Everyone in this area uses Glocks with 180gr. ammunition in the .40 and 147gr in the 9mm.
The G34/G35's are popular in this area.

[DocGKR]

Robert Vogel reported that he uses a G35 as his on duty LE pistol; lots of other squared away folks I know have run G34/G35's as duty pistols (usually with a WML attached) without any issues.

[orionz06]

Tom Givens carries one, doesn't he?

[JonInWA]

Chuck, as one of those taxpayers myself, I can honestly say I'm not super thrilled about it. If they're having firing pin issues they should get in touch with Smith. I think the M&P 40 is a fundamentally solid design and I don't think a new platform is needed. I see why the issues would concern them, but jettisoning the platform seems premature.



I thought it was a weird choice, too. I do not like longslide guns at all for serious carry/uniform work. Seems like that extra length just makes for a slower draw, and it's not like the 22 or 17 have any issues with excellent terminal ballistics and accuracy with enough practice.

Plus, subjectively, I think the longslides are an order of magnitude fuglier than normal Glocks.

Why? The "long slde" is "long(er)" really only in comparison to other Glocks-they're basically the same length as, say, a Government 1911 or a Beretta 92, where I don't exactly recall any huge/insurmountable perceived drawbacks in terms of carryability and/or draw induced by their length..

While the increased length may or may not provide some tangible increased sight-plane advantages (both consensus and my personal jury is still out/unconvinced on that one...), there is a discernible increase in velocity; arguably providing .357 SIG ballistics with 9mm 127 +P+ cartridges-which I see as not a bad thing.

As for the "fugly" quotient, Glocks (and modern polymer-framed guns in general) are not generally viewed sue generis as viable contestants in any firearms aesthetics contests. They're tools. They're intended for viable, and protracted use in various hostile environments. If I want to posture/seek a "barbecue" gun, I'll pull something else out of the vault. But this probably isn't the forum for that...

Best, Jon

[Chuck Haggard]

Tom Givens carries one, doesn't he?

He does, IWB, daily.

[LockedBreech]

Why? The "long slde" is "long(er)" really only in comparison to other Glocks-they're basically the same length as, say, a Government 1911 or a Beretta 92, where I don't exactly recall any huge/insurmountable perceived drawbacks in terms of carryability and/or draw induced by their length..

While the increased length may or may not provide some tangible increased sight-plane advantages (both consensus and my personal jury is still out/unconvinced on that one...), there is a discernible increase in velocity; arguably providing .357 SIG ballistics with 9mm 127 +P+ cartridges-which I see as not a bad thing.

As for the "fugly" quotient, Glocks (and modern polymer-framed guns in general) are not generally viewed sue generis as viable contestants in any firearms aesthetics contests. They're tools. They're intended for viable, and protracted use in various hostile environments. If I want to posture/seek a "barbecue" gun, I'll pull something else out of the vault. But this probably isn't the forum for that...

Best, Jon
I love the Beretta 92, so that's a good point on the length. I just think a 17/22 will do just fine in most or all 34/35 situations.

I never saw the point of +p+ 9mm. I find 180-grain .40 easier shooting. I think +p+ largely decreases the 9mm advantage of controllability and fast follow-ups. I like my 9mm standard pressure 147 HST or Gold Dot. For big velocity guys I see the advantage.

Guns are definitely tools first, but if I can choose between a blue screwdriver or a neon pink and green screwdriver, and they both work for the job, I'm picking blue. My subjective taste there, no flaw in the long Glocks.

[Tom Givens]

As Chuck mentioned I do carry a G 35 every day IWB. I do not find the additional three-quarter inch slide length to be an issue at all for carry, comfort, or draw speed. I do find the additional sight radius helps me beyond 15 or 20 yards. Also, I get some extra velocity, giving me 10 mm performance out of a pretty soft shooting gun.

When I first decided to transition from the 1911 after decades of carrying one, I decided on the Glock platform. I first tried Glock 23 since it was just about exactly the same size as a Commander. Hated it! I then tried a G 22 and found I could shoot it a lot better. Out of curiosity I tried the G 35 and found I can shoot it even better. Been carrying one now for eight years, IWB since the beginning.

[Redhat]

As Chuck mentioned I do carry a G 35 every day IWB. I do not find the additional three-quarter inch slide length to be an issue at all for carry, comfort, or draw speed. I do find the additional sight radius helps me beyond 15 or 20 yards. Also, I get some extra velocity, giving me 10 mm performance out of a pretty soft shooting gun.

When I first decided to transition from the 1911 after decades of carrying one, I decided on the Glock platform. I first tried Glock 23 since it was just about exactly the same size as a Commander. Hated it! I then tried a G 22 and found I could shoot it a lot better. Out of curiosity I tried the G 35 and found I can shoot it even better. Been carrying one now for eight years, IWB since the beginning.

What would be your guess on the light primer strikes? Is lubing that striker a no-no like it is with Glocks?

[ToddG]

The G34/G35's are popular in this area.

Dude, your state doesn't even follow US common law. You don't count. :cool:


When I first decided to transition from the 1911 after decades of carrying one, I decided on the Glock platform.

Learning, sacrificing sacred cows, changing your opinion... you aren't allowed on the Internet, sir.


What would be your guess on the light primer strikes? Is lubing that striker a no-no like it is with Glocks?

Absolutely positively a no-go. Even hammer fired guns shouldn't have their FPs lubricated. But on a SFA it's absolutely asking for trouble.

Also to be clear, I'm not a (complete) hater of the G34/G35 and I know there are people who've sincerely weighed the plusses and minuses to find those guns superior for them. But when I hear an FTU has decided they're the best thing for an agency, I scratch my head. If nothing else, agencies issuing G19/G23 sized guns tend to have a higher percentage of officers carrying "real" guns (IOW, their duty guns) off-duty. The number of guys who are going to carry a G35 every day in plain clothes/off-duty is probably below 1%. Can it be done? Sure. Will it be?

[JBP55]

[QUOTE=ToddG;283789]Dude, your state doesn't even follow US common law. You don't count. :cool:


Sure it does there are plenty common law marriages in my state. :cool:

[Lyonsgrid]

My agency of about 1600 officers, first issued M&P40's in 2006. We just got new guns last year with the latest "updates." FWIW, my new gun groups about the same with a little better reset. Had some issues with weak mag springs out of the box. I liked the older glossy mags more. We carry 180 gr GoldDots. Not my first choice but the M&P's get the job done. Large sister agency just dropped the M&P's and went back to Sig 226's.

[KeeFus]

My agency of about 1600 officers, first issued M&P40's in 2006. We just got new guns last year with the latest "updates." FWIW, my new gun groups about the same with a little better reset. Had some issues with weak mag springs out of the box. I liked the older glossy mags more. We carry 180 gr GoldDots. Not my first choice but the M&P's get the job done. Large sister agency just dropped the M&P's and went back to Sig 226's.

You with Probation and Parole?

[Lyonsgrid]

You with Probation and Parole?

Guilty

[nwhpfan]

I bought an M&P9 in the fall of 2011. It had a silver striker. The nipple broke off after a couple thousand rounds. Our armory had a box of black ones. I installed it and it didn't last long either. I posted the pictures here when it happened. I got a couple more strikers from S&W...silver ones. I sold that pistol.

Unless something has changed since April 2012 when I took the M&P armorer course, the 40 and 9 use the same striker.

FWIW, I have a M&P 45 that I load to minor PF and shoot in USPSA. I have a striker in it with at least 20k rounds and a 100k dry fires and it's still GTG. But they are different strikers of course.

Here is the post from back then. My pictures are on page two. http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2506-M-amp-P-Firing-pin-break-anyone-else/page2

[KeeFus]

Guilty

LOL! Couple of my friends are buying their weapons back. Nothing wrong with them at all.

The M&P 40's, from what I've seen, are very reliable & accurate. I think S&W had mag spring issues across the board with every caliber but they seem to have worked them out.

[JHC]

As Chuck mentioned I do carry a G 35 every day IWB. I do not find the additional three-quarter inch slide length to be an issue at all for carry, comfort, or draw speed. I do find the additional sight radius helps me beyond 15 or 20 yards. Also, I get some extra velocity, giving me 10 mm performance out of a pretty soft shooting gun.

When I first decided to transition from the 1911 after decades of carrying one, I decided on the Glock platform. I first tried Glock 23 since it was just about exactly the same size as a Commander. Hated it! I then tried a G 22 and found I could shoot it a lot better. Out of curiosity I tried the G 35 and found I can shoot it even better. Been carrying one now for eight years, IWB since the beginning.

My Gen 4 G22 is currently on loan to my son in AK but I put a couple hundred rounds through a borrowed Gen 4 G35 and while I could not compare them side by side I thought the 35 noticeably better handling on drills. I never tried a Gen 3 G35.

[JonInWA]

Another factor regarding the G34/G35 (G34 in my specific case) that I like is its balance. For me, the two best-balancing Glocks are the G19 and G34. I'm hypothesizing that the G19's possessing superb balance is because everything is closer to it's center of mass, due to its reduced proportions, whereas the G34's balance is due to it's proportional weight balance despite its greater slide length. This pays some nice dividends when shooting one-handed only in my personal experience.

And, it's not that my G17 is "bad" in any sense-I like it, and have historically have had some quantifiable excellent results with it. It's just that there an be some compelling rationales for going the compact (G19) or larger (G34) routes, without necessarily sacrificing performance (and in some arenas/instances, improving performances).

Best, Jon

[John Hearne]

If nothing else, agencies issuing G19/G23 sized guns tend to have a higher percentage of officers carrying "real" guns (IOW, their duty guns) off-duty. The number of guys who are going to carry a G35 every day in plain clothes/off-duty is probably below 1%. Can it be done? Sure. Will it be?

IIIRC, Kentucky State Police issues every trooper a Glock 35 and a 27.

[LSP552]

+1 with Todd. Any agency considering issuing a long slide Glock has got a little half-tard in their genetics.


LSP SWAT issued 60+ G35s for a decade without any problems at all. I'm aware of a number of agencies and individual officers who issue or allow 34/35s, and most are not half-tard. The 35 is the ONLY .40 Glock I'd touch with a 10 ft pole.

[nwhpfan]

My agency issued SWAT G35's for about 10 years. Many, many of our members carry G34 and G35.

Once you put a light on a 17, or a 34 your going to need a holster that is about the same size anyway so if the 3/4" aids or not is really the only question IMO. If a 34/35 shoots better than a 17/22 then why not? IDK....but I don't disagree with anyone that has answered that question for themselves.

[JBP55]

A local PD issues G34 pistols and the person responsible is a POST Firearms Instructor, On the POST Council, SWAT Member, a Narcotics Officer, a well tuned in shooter and on loan working with an Alphabet Agency.
As I said before the G34/G35 pistols are very popular in this area.

[ToddG]

The need for special SWAT/team pistols is a whole other discussion and one very dear to my heart. :cool:

[David Armstrong]

Dude, your state doesn't even follow US common law. You don't count. :cool:
Have you considered that might indicate a problem with the other 49 instead of us?:p

[mizer67]

I'm genuinely curious as to the rationale for all the G34/35 hate?

[LSP552]

The need for special SWAT/team pistols is a whole other discussion and one very dear to my heart. :cool:

And one that I'd agree with you in most cases. Factoring into LSP's decision to go G35 was the issue pistol at the time was per-rail P220s and the SureFires lights of the period were crew-served using a replacement take down lever (armorer level process). The real key was measuring performance on the range. The difference in actual performance between the P220 and G35 was VERY measurable during T&E. Combined with the new Insight M3, the G35 provided capabilities that didn't exist with the P220. These included better shooting performance and ability to mount/remove WML light without armorer support. Obviously, this was back in the stone age.

I'd be the first to agree that selecting a special pistol just to be special is stupid….and done all to often. The troops doing most of the handgun shooting for real in LE are patrol folks. They are the ones with the greatest need for a shootable pistol, and the ones usually ignored. Have said that, I'm not a believer in an all or nothing policy either. If I could, I'd do a performance upgrade for a subset I was responsible for in a heartbeat. This occurs not just in the SWAT world. Some agencies also acquire smaller pistols for plainclothes and undercover folks. What a novel concept to let the mission drive equipment selection...

Sorry for contributing to the drift…

[LockedBreech]

I'm genuinely curious as to the rationale for all the G34/35 hate?

For me, I flatly admit that it's not really rational at all. My main objection was the length, but as was correctly pointed out, I am a huge fan of the Beretta 92FS, which has a 4.875" barrel. I just...don't like longslide Glocks. They don't work for me. I don't like how they look or balance and I don't shoot them any better. Since the full-size Glocks are very capable pistols and very proven, there doesn't seem to be any need. I'm not a patrol officer, SWAT member, or any sort of front-line enforcement person, though, and would never deign to speak for what works for them. It's just capitalism being glorious capitalism. Not for me, but I'm glad there are lots of choices.




Sorry for contributing to the drift…

As the OP, I don't know that I really submitted enough meat here for there to be drift. I just had come across this M&P data point and this forum was the first one I thought might at least want to discuss it. So no worries.

[Jeep]

The need for special SWAT/team pistols is a whole other discussion and one very dear to my heart. :cool:

I assume that you are ok with special pistols, though, so long as they have a color scheme that shouts "tactical?"

[HCM]

For practical and logistical reasons agencies need to maintain some control over the weapons used by their officers but the one gun for everyone doesn't work so well either. The beauty of a gun like the Glock is as a system. If you're going to adopt 9 mm Glock's for example you should authorize and let the mission and/or user performance drive the selection. My agency authorizes the Glock 26 and 17 but I would not hesitate to carry the 34 even though I work in plainclothes. That might not work for everyone but I am a fairly large, Shrek like, human so carrying the 34 wouldn't pose a problem and I shoot the 34 better than the 17.

[DocGKR]

A rationale LE agency handgun protocol might look something like the following:

G26 = Issued BUG
G19 = Optional off duty and plainclothes
G17 = Issued patrol duty pistol
G34 = Optional duty pistol for folks using dedicated WML

[ToddG]

I assume that you are ok with special pistols, though, so long as they have a color scheme that shouts "tactical?"

:confused:

[Jeep]

:confused:

So the guys on the team can show off their truly tactically colored pistols to chicks, of course.

[jlw]

IIIRC, Kentucky State Police issues every trooper a Glock 35 and a 27.

Yup. Alabama DNR as well. At one time I had a list of agencies that had purchased them distribution channels, but I can't find it now.

[JonInWA]

I'd go one step further-Allow the G19, 17 and/or G34 to be utilized for any and all applications; insofar as the LEO can appropriately qualify IAW DoJ/departmental standards. (In response to DocGKR's Post #38)

Best, Jon

[John Hearne]

We issue and authorize the Sig Classic "system." 9mm, 40, or 45 as limited by model. Models approved include: 220, 225, 226, 228, and 229. Models approved with "small hands" waiver: P239 and P245. BUG use only: P230/232. There are rumblings of approving the 224 and possibly the 227.

[MD7305]

It would be most logical to pick a paltform, say 9mm Glocks, and allow the officer to choose what suits them best, G19, G17, G34. Or maybe, as others have mentioned, issue your plain clothes folks a G26 or G19. I think it's a great way of issuing weapons.

But most LE agencies are not logical. "Everybody carries the same gun." is what I've been told. The UC Drug Task Force guy that is forced to carry a G22/WML would be much better suited to a G27 for obvious reasons but...no. And that's a loud "NO!"

Back to the G35, I really like it. After deciding I would standardize to .40, so that my PD and personal stuff was all concurrent, I had an extended affair with a G35 (Gen.3). It shot so soft, SHO/WHO seemed so easy with that gun. I've yet to try a Gen.4 version but if I was allowed to pick my own duty gun and HAD to stay with .40 I'd pick the G35 over all others. Also, as others have said, when running a WML on a G17 or 22 the holster isn't much long in a G34/35 of the same variety.

[ToddG]

So the guys on the team can show off their truly tactically colored pistols to chicks, of course.

Gotcha.

[jlw]

Four of my guys are carrying 34s, and one is carrying a 35; all personally owned. One of them was at a Farnham class recently. He ran a drill where they had to drop their primary pistol and go to a BUG. The range was in south GA where the dirt is very sandy. Enough sand got into the slide cut that it completely locked up the pistol, and the recoil spring assembly had to be replaced.

I tried the 34. I was slower out of the holster with it, and while I could achieve a little bit more accuracy on a precision shot with it, I couldn't run it as well as a 17 or 19. Oddly enough, my GSSF scores with a 19 were better than with a 17 or a 34.

[JTQ]

Four of my guys are carrying 34s, and one is carrying a 35; all personally owned. One of them was at a Farnham class recently. He ran a drill where they had to drop their primary pistol and go to a BUG. The range was in south GA where the dirt is very sandy. Enough sand got into the slide cut that it completely locked up the pistol, and the recoil spring assembly had to be replaced.

That's interesting. I'm not a Glock guy, but I always suspected that could be a problem, but all the Glock users on forums always claim that could never happen. It does seem like dirt and sand would get blown out, but a hard object like a stick, stone, coin, etc., seems like it could lock up the gun, at lest temporarily.

[Jeep]

Four of my guys are carrying 34s, and one is carrying a 35; all personally owned. One of them was at a Farnham class recently. He ran a drill where they had to drop their primary pistol and go to a BUG. The range was in south GA where the dirt is very sandy. Enough sand got into the slide cut that it completely locked up the pistol, and the recoil spring assembly had to be replaced.

I tried the 34. I was slower out of the holster with it, and while I could achieve a little bit more accuracy on a precision shot with it, I couldn't run it as well as a 17 or 19. Oddly enough, my GSSF scores with a 19 were better than with a 17 or a 34.

I agree with JTQ--that is an important data point. I seem to remember that someone on this forum mentioned that Larry Vickers (I think) had raised the issue. I'm not sure if it is a concern to police or not, but it definitely would be a concern for some military uses. My guess is that snow and ice could get packed in there as well.

[farscott]

Four of my guys are carrying 34s, and one is carrying a 35; all personally owned. One of them was at a Farnham class recently. He ran a drill where they had to drop their primary pistol and go to a BUG. The range was in south GA where the dirt is very sandy. Enough sand got into the slide cut that it completely locked up the pistol, and the recoil spring assembly had to be replaced.

I tried the 34. I was slower out of the holster with it, and while I could achieve a little bit more accuracy on a precision shot with it, I couldn't run it as well as a 17 or 19. Oddly enough, my GSSF scores with a 19 were better than with a 17 or a 34.

That is really interesting in that the RSA had to be replaced. I wonder if the sand caused coil bind in the flat spring and/or the sand scored the guide rod. I assume the latter since the RSA had to be replaced.

My limited experience with sand testing for military stuff is that the test results are not consistent. Often it is just the luck of the draw. Same system, same test procedure, and a totally different result. As such, I do not make gun decisions based on if there is a failure, but what the failure modes are and what it takes to solve them.

[jlw]

That's interesting. I'm not a Glock guy, but I always suspected that could be a problem, but all the Glock users on forums always claim that could never happen. It does seem like dirt and sand would get blown out, but a hard object like a stick, stone, coin, etc., seems like it could lock up the gun, at lest temporarily.


I agree with JTQ--that is an important data point. I seem to remember that someone on this forum mentioned that Larry Vickers (I think) had raised the issue. I'm not sure if it is a concern to police or not, but it definitely would be a concern for some military uses. My guess is that snow and ice could get packed in there as well.


That is really interesting in that the RSA had to be replaced. I wonder if the sand caused coil bind in the flat spring and/or the sand scored the guide rod. I assume the latter since the RSA had to be replaced.

My limited experience with sand testing for military stuff is that the test results are not consistent. Often it is just the luck of the draw. Same system, same test procedure, and a totally different result. As such, I do not make gun decisions based on if there is a failure, but what the failure modes are and what it takes to solve them.


The day of the class, he grabbed a spare gun to finish. Later he tried blowing it out with an air hose, but it kept locking up. He finally replaced the RSA.

[John Hearne]

I agree with JTQ--that is an important data point. I seem to remember that someone on this forum mentioned that Larry Vickers (I think) had raised the issue. I'm not sure if it is a concern to police or not, but it definitely would be a concern for some military uses. My guess is that snow and ice could get packed in there as well.

I think that it's even more interesting that when designing the 40 & 41, they went with a closed slide design.

[JBP55]

I think that it's even more interesting that when designing the 40 & 41, they went with a closed slide design.

They needed the weight for the new slide on the G41 which is still lighter than a G21 slide.

[BJJ]

The day of the class, he grabbed a spare gun to finish. Later he tried blowing it out with an air hose, but it kept locking up. He finally replaced the RSA.

Was he bothered enough by the experience to switch to another model or did he stick with the long slide?

[jlw]

Was he bothered enough by the experience to switch to another model or did he stick with the long slide?


Still carrying the 34...

[JHC]

Still carrying the 34...

I think I'd apply a patch of duct tape. Pretty huge data point brah. Thanks

[Actsda]

Did a search on this issue and this thread was the closest and most recent one I could find. Is this still an issue and if so, have any agencies had this experience with the 2.0 guns? Have a 2.0 compact with approximately 3000 rds on it and the firing pin tip broke off. This occurred in dry fire. Have been slowly, over the last couple of years, moving over to M&P's from Glocks for carry. They have impressed me as very robust in design so, this was unexpected. I'm not one to get too upset over parts breaking as it happens and you fix it, learn from it, try to take preventative maintenance measures, etc. However, with literally 10's of thousands of rds through multiple Glocks over the last 30 years, and a couple of classic Sig pistols, this was never an issue for me or for my agency that I am aware of. This is not an issue that I have ever heard of with M&P's before this happened. A sister agency issued 1st gen .40's for several years and this was not an issue that I ever heard of with those guns. I have read and heard from multiple sources that M&P's can be dry fired like Glocks and other SF pistols without snap caps. Any experience or input on this issue would be appreciated.

[HCM]

Did a search on this issue and this thread was the closest and most recent one I could find. Is this still an issue and if so, have any agencies had this experience with the 2.0 guns? Have a 2.0 compact with approximately 3000 rds on it and the firing pin tip broke off. This occurred in dry fire. Have been slowly, over the last couple of years, moving over to M&P's from Glocks for carry. They have impressed me as very robust in design so, this was unexpected. I'm not one to get too upset over parts breaking as it happens and you fix it, learn from it, try to take preventative maintenance measures, etc. However, with literally 10's of thousands of rds through multiple Glocks over the last 30 years, and a couple of classic Sig pistols, this was never an issue for me or for my agency that I am aware of. This is not an issue that I have ever heard of with M&P's before this happened. A sister agency issued 1st gen .40's for several years and this was not an issue that I ever heard of with those guns. I have read and heard from multiple sources that M&P's can be dry fired like Glocks and other SF pistols without snap caps. Any experience or input on this issue would be appreciated.

If you don’t break something you’re not shooting enough. I’ve broken Berettas, SIGs, Glocks, even an HK.

My city’s PD, with 2000 sworn has been issuing the M$P 40 for a bit over 10 years, since transitioning from Glock model 22s. They are satisfied enough with the design that they are keeping 40 and transitioning to the M&P 2.0.

[SecondsCount]

If you don’t break something you’re not shooting enough. I’ve broken Berettas, SIGs, Glocks, even an HK.

My city’s PD, with 2000 sworn has been issuing the M$P 40 for a bit over 10 years, since transitioning from Glock model 22s. They are satisfied enough with the design that they are keeping 40 and transitioning to the M&P 2.0.

I agree. Most of us carry a low round count gun, and use another gun for dry fire and range practice.

[claymore504]

I do not believe this is a common issue with the M&P. I have a buddy with a major city PD here in Texas and they run the Gen 1 M&P40 and no issues. I have seen some gun shops with rentals that had many thousand rounds and striker was never an issue. I think the M&P is excellent in 40SW, especially the M2.0 5 inch.

[Sammy1]

Do they shoot non toxic ammo on the range. Frangible-non toxic ammunition were known to have hard primers.

[PD Sgt.]

When my agency issued M&P .40s, we did not experience an abundance of striker failures. I seem to recall having to replace my slide release once when the right side tab broke off, and I had a magazine catch replaced, but that was about it. Anecdotally those were our two greatest problems outside of some rust on early models.

Not enough to sour us on the model, we just eventually switched to 9mm.

[Actsda]

If you don’t break something you’re not shooting enough. I’ve broken Berettas, SIGs, Glocks, even an HK.

My city’s PD, with 2000 sworn has been issuing the M$P 40 for a bit over 10 years, since transitioning from Glock model 22s. They are satisfied enough with the design that they are keeping 40 and transitioning to the M&P 2.0.

Thanks. I agree. I’ve broken about every spring there is on a Glock over the years including several trigger springs as well as on Sigs. Just looking to see if this is a well known issue. Good to hear of an agency maintaining M&P’s to the 2.0’s. Ran into some Austin PD detectives at a conference there last summer that spoke highly of their M&P’s and Smith LE support. They had transitioned from .40 to 9 but kept the 1st gen M&P.

[Actsda]

When my agency issued M&P .40s, we did not experience an abundance of striker failures. I seem to recall having to replace my slide release once when the right side tab broke off, and I had a magazine catch replaced, but that was about it. Anecdotally those were our two greatest problems outside of some rust on early models.

Not enough to sour us on the model, we just eventually switched to 9mm.

Thanks for the response. A sister agency here had the same rust issues with the early versions.

[Actsda]

I do not believe this is a common issue with the M&P. I have a buddy with a major city PD here in Texas and they run the Gen 1 M&P40 and no issues. I have seen some gun shops with rentals that had many thousand rounds and striker was never an issue. I think the M&P is excellent in 40SW, especially the M2.0 5 inch.

Good to know. I agree on the .40 in the M&P. It was built around that caliber and they seem to shoot and handle that round well.

[Sammy1]

When it comes to 40 cal, Kyle Lamb gives the nod to M&P40, https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/30/kyle-lamb-glock-vs-mp/

[HCM]

When it comes to 40 cal, Kyle Lamb gives the nod to M&P40, https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/30/kyle-lamb-glock-vs-mp/

The M&P was designed around .40. However, 2014 was a long time ago and Lamb is a confirmed Glock hater. He has also moved on to the P320 platform.

The Gen 5 Glock 40s may be too little too late but they are the first Glocks designed around .40.

The other promising .40 striker gun is the VP40.

[JonInWA]

I've been running a VP40 since late 2015 with satisfaction; once the grip backstrap and side panels are tuned, it provides an exceptionally natural and ergonomic grip index, leading fast acquisitions and accurate shots.

https://i.imgur.com/0FAvjWnh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qtaUqp9h.jpg

HK did an excellent job in configuring the gun to the cartridge; the heavy slide and flatwire RSA do a very good job of taming the .40 cartridge. I've appreciated excellent HK aftermarket support; mine received a triggerbar tab adjustment (to facilitate takedown) and a trigger spring/bearing upgrade, utilizing the later production current trigger spring/bearing configuration (which probably wasn't actually needed, but good for my peace of mind).

While I'm quite pleased with my later-production Glock Gen4 G22 (for whch I also have the .357 SIG barrel for), the VP40 is a bit easier to shoot, is slightly more accurate, and is more ergonomic. It's also much more complex, especially in the receiver.

While the G22 gets the nod for wilderness carry, the VP40 excels as an everyday/duty pistol. It again validates the use of a heavier slide in conjunction with .40 to accomplish a user-friendly durable platform. I'm glad Glock belatedly went that route with the Gen5 G22; an interesting head-to-head comparison would be between the Gen5 G22 and the VP40...GJM, where are you??

Best, Jon