Glock 34 for IDPA SSP and USPSA Production

[rob_s]

I'm looking to go back to simpler times/setups/"systems"/"platforms"/whatever. The CZ has been a fun distraction, but I'm still struggling with the DA first-round pull because:don't-practice. I'm thinking of going with a Glock 34 3rd Gen. What would be the "ideal" setup for the gun to keep legal in both SSP and Production?

I'm thinking of this trigger
http://www.glocktriggers.com/products/vogel/

and these sights
http://www.skdtac.com/Warren-Tactical-Sight-Fiber-Optic-Front-p/wrt.303.htm

Anything better I should be considering? If I understand the rules correctly, I can't change the mag release or the slide stop and still be legal in both games in these divisions, and magwells are out in both as well.

[YVK]

Magwells are out, but my understanding of rules was that you could change small parts to other OEM parts if those OEM parts came from approved pistol models (for example, G17 slide stop).

GJM has been raving about Vogel trigger.

Maybe try a dedicated gaming sights like Taran Tactical, just for an experiment.

[Jim Watson]

I don't know anything about those specific brands but a G34 with trigger and sight improvements is kind of a default solution for SSP and Production.

The Gen4 has a more prominent magazine catch than earlier variants and the G34 has a more prominent slide stop than a G17 which isn't saying much.

[littlejerry]

Glock 34 is the default option as was already said.

I'd polish it and put in a minus connector, perhaps with a stronger trigger spring, on a production gun. Gen3 guns can have a better trigger than Gen4. Gen 4 has a better mag release and frame texture. My Gen4 guns also show less POI shift between different ammo weights and brands.

Vogel is a self proclaimed trigger snob. I shot (one of) his actual guns at his class back in the summer. I was underwhelmed. He general my mixes and matches parts to get the "best" pull. Sometimes they are OEM, sometimes not.

[Chuck Haggard]

The stock non-blue lable 34s already come with the Glock version of race parts with the extended slide stop and mag release, or are you wanting something less prominent for those bits?

[JBP55]

DK Custom Triggers makes an excellent Glock trigger that is approved for production. Short pre travel and over travel eliminated (both adjustable) with a good break and short reset.

[Failure2Stop]

Rob, what is the purpose of competition to you?

If you want to be competitive, you are going to have to invest time in practice/training.
If you want to gain/maintain proficiency with your chosen platform, shooting something with an advertised "competition only" application is not going to carry over, since we all know that shooter interaction with the trigger is the most crucial aspect of the speed:accuracy equation.

I shoot USPSA limited with a stock G17, with the exception of a Dawson magwell, FO front sight, and blacked out rear. My holster is an OWB kydex that mirrors my carry type (no light provision on the USPSA holster). I do not frequently practice/train for competition (the job and family place a high demand on my time), and I am in the upper 25%-10% of USPSA matches that I shoot ( http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-display-match-results-detail.php?indx=13388&division=Limited&guntype=Pistol ).

The Warren/Sevigny sight combo is good.
I prefer the Dawsons for competition, but that's me. Sights that draw the eye, and are readily leveled AND centered, will give you better accuracy at speed. There is no shortage of opinions on front sight width, and trying different ones at your actual sight radius will yield better outcome than internet opinion. I shoot minor in limited, which means that I cannot afford to shoot C/D and place well, putting an emphasis on sight perception.

I have an issue with the extended slide stop/release, in that when I am pushing the gun at speed my hand will bump the release upward and lock the slide with rounds remaining in the mag. I have noticed it most with the G19, but have stopped using it completely in favor of the standard slide stop. Then again, I don't have an issue with the standard stop as a release.

[Chuck Haggard]

I've seen more issues with the Glock extended slide stop that benefits, going by looking at a large group of shooters. People with big hands often get early slide lock due to bumping the part up in the middle of a string of fire.

Just an observation for general consideration.

[JTQ]

I've seen more issues with the Glock extended slide stop that benefits, going by looking at a large group of shooters. People with big hands often get early slide lock due to bumping the part up in the middle of a string of fire.

Is that with the bigger slide stop that comes on the G34 (vs standard found on a G17) or with the still larger aftermarket parts?

[Chuck Haggard]

Is that with the bigger slide stop that comes on the G34 (vs standard found on a G17) or with the still larger aftermarket parts?

Glock part

[rob_s]

Rob, what is the purpose of competition to you?

It is entertainment.

With that said, it needs to be fun, and not painful. The CZ answered the second part, but not the first. The Glock will be more "fun" than the CZ because (in general) of better support in the marketplace and in terms of what I already have on hand, and require less dedicated parts, pieces, holsters, mags, support gear, etc.

I am not going to practice outside of the odd dryfire from time to time, but there are matches available often enough down here that I can use the matches as practice if I want to.

[rob_s]

So if I understand the bulk of the responses correctly...

1) there is nothing inherently "bad" about my choices other than some people prefer other products
2) there is nothing in either product that prohibits it's use in SSP or Production
3) there isn't much more to be done with the gun beyond these two and still stay in SSP and Production

Yes?

[joshs]

That trigger and any sights are legal. You can also change the mag release and slide release to other OEM parts. I think Glock offering guns with the Vickers parts may lead to their legality in Production, which is awesome because that has always been one of the downsides of using a Gen 3 in Production. The Glock mag releases are either too long or too short.

[nwhpfan]

The Warren/Sevegny sights are the sights to get IMO. The only benefit to Dawson's...IMO, is if they don't POA/POI they send you the correct height free. But those Warren/Sevegny are used by about everyone for a reason...

Triggers. Personally, I'd probably just buy the GM kit from Taran Tactical. It's about $50 and has the right springs and connector.

Spend the rest on ammo and/or components.

[Chuck Haggard]

I recently heard there is a new "FBI" mag catch for the Glocks, which would of course be a true Glock part and thus "legal", and it's about the same size as the Vickers' part. I have not seen one yet, just throwing it out there.


Pretty sure you can do a match barrel if you want. A negative connector would be stock on the non-blue label guns so the lighter trigger should already be there.

[JBP55]

I recently heard there is a new "FBI" mag catch for the Glocks, which would of course be a true Glock part and thus "legal", and it's about the same size as the Vickers' part. I have not seen one yet, just throwing it out there.


Pretty sure you can do a match barrel if you want. A negative connector would be stock on the non-blue label guns so the lighter trigger should already be there.

If it is the same ones I purchased from Glock several years ago for the Gen 4 they are approximately .035 longer.

[JonInWA]

For IDPA (and carry), you might want to consider either the Warren Tactical or Warren/Sevigny Carry rear sight; either is slightly more "carry friendly" due to rounded sight edges. The Warren Tactical has a .150 "U" notch; the Warren/Sevigny Carry is the same as the sight you're already considering (square notch), but with rounded edges.

I've found that there can be not insignificant variation with OEM Glock components and the resultant triggerpulls. Rather than immediately go to a "hardware" solution, I'd simply see what it is that you've got, put 500 or so rounds through the gun, and only then step back and assess if you really need trigger component/spring replacements. Ditto with the magazine release and slide stop-I personally prefer Glock's Extended Slide Stop/Release, and have had zero issues with it, and have them mounted on all of my Glocks.

It's not that the components you're considering are "bad" per se, I just think that you need to spend some time with the platform to ascertain their actual necessity.

While I've never personally had any issue with the OEM Glock magazine releases, the increased length of the OEM extended ones on the Tactical/Practical models can be inadvertently activated by placing the gun on its left side on a hard surface-at least on the Gen 3 and earlier models. Others have felt that they have sharp edges-maybe, but its never been an issue with me.

FWIW, on my personal Gen 3 G34, used for carry, IDPA and GSSF, I have a set of Warren Tactical sights (with the front sight face painted Fluorescent Green), the OEM (extended) magazine release, the OEM (extended) slide stop/release, the OEM triggerbar, the OEM "minus" connector, and the NY1 spring.

Best, Jon

[rob_s]

This gun will not be carried.

I'm also not new to Glocks, just the 34. I'm pretty familiar with the basic, stock parts and variants, and see no benefit to starting with them.

To the other comments re: the slide stop and mag release, yes these are the other parts I'd be interested in changing, yes I'd prefer the Vickers parts like I have on my 19s, but I'm sure I'll be ok with the factory extended parts.

[GJM]

Gen 3 Glock 34
Taran sights
Glockmeister grip plug
Glocktriggers.com Vogel trigger
4.5 pound striker spring
Some grip tape
Extended, rounded OEM mag release
Stock slide stop
13 pound recoil spring and guide rod
Blade-Tech Ice holster
Stoeger Pro Shop Glock base pads
A semi-truck load of 9mm ball

[joshs]

Is rounding the mag release Production legal?

[ranger]

I shot a G34 Gen 3 for years in USPSA Production. I kept the G34 stock except for sights and trigger - I got a Vanek trigger. There seem to be a lot more pistols that are competitive in USPSA Production and IDPA SSP now but the G34 is the standard "go to" for that form of competitive shooting. If you can minimizie the mods and maximize the practice it will serve you well!

However, when ammo and reloading components got scarce I began to have issues with the G34 with trigger mods not reliably firing primers (gun was 100% until I had to scrounge for ammo and started shooting steel case ammo and any primer I could get). There is something to be said for shooting a Glock "as is" without mods except sights.

[BN]

Is rounding the mag release Production legal?

No, but the plastic is soft and sometimes wears down. ;)

[JBP55]

No, but the plastic is soft and sometimes wears down. ;)

All my Gen 3 Glocks had extended magazine releases that were worn/rounded on all corners and slightly on the flat.
Other than one unfired NIB G17 20th anniversary edition all my Glocks are now Gen 4.

[joshs]

No, but the plastic is soft and sometimes wears down. ;)

An almost Production legal G34 makes a pretty poor Open gun.

[45dotACP]

With the new Gen 4 glocks using beavertails, is the grip force adapter a production legal piece now? I prefer it to the stock grip, but my gun is a gen 3, and I prefer to not play in limited with a minor caliber...

[joshs]

With the new Gen 4 glocks using beavertails, is the grip force adapter a production legal piece now?

No.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

[rob_s]

I frankly don't think anyone at my local matches would notice or care if I used the Vickers parts, or put some premature wear on the mag release or slide stop. And I'm well past being interested in driving around the countryside to state matches and the like. But, I'm pretty sure I'm not at a level or frequency that the Glock factory extended parts are going to bother me.

I'm going to go Gen 3, if only because I have a truckload of G17 mags that are not Gen 4 friendly. At least as I understand the Gen 4, which requires the little stripe of exposed metal on the front-strap of the magazine, right? My mags are a mix of about 50/50 with/without the stripe.

[JV_]

I'm going to go Gen 3, if only because I have a truckload of G17 mags that are not Gen 4 friendly. At least as I understand the Gen 4, which requires the little stripe of exposed metal on the front-strap of the magazine, right?

That's not my understanding. That front notch was for an ambi mag catch, which (in the US) was on the 21SF. The 21SF ambi release was abandoned, but they kept the design attribute around just in case future guns needed something similar.

If you want to reverse your Gen4 mag catch, you'll need the additional side notch found on Gen4 mags.

I have plenty of Gen3 mags without that notch that work perfectly fine in my Gen4 guns.

[JBP55]

That's not my understanding. That front notch was for an ambi mag catch, which (in the US) was on the 21SF. The 21SF ambi release was abandoned, but they kept the design attribute around just in case future guns needed something similar.

If you want to reverse your Gen4 mag catch, you'll need the additional side notch found on Gen4 mags.

I have plenty of Gen3 mags without that notch that work perfectly fine in my Gen4 guns.

As JV said the Gen 3 and Gen 4 magazines interchange as long as the magazine catch is not reversed on the Gen 4 pistol.

[rob_s]

That's not my understanding. That front notch was for an ambi mag catch, which (in the US) was on the 21SF. The 21SF ambi release was abandoned, but they kept the design attribute around just in case future guns needed something similar.

If you want to reverse your Gen4 mag catch, you'll need the additional side notch found on Gen4 mags.

I have plenty of Gen3 mags without that notch that work perfectly fine in my Gen4 guns.

That's good to know then. I still have mags marked "for LE use only" from way back when, so I didn't want to have to ditch them. I'll have to get to a shop and fiddle-fart with both gens and see what's what.

[rob_s]

Possibly a stupid question, but...

Given the same load being fired from both, and guns that are otherwise identical (let's say, stock) would the Gen 3 or Gen 4 be regarded as having less felt recoil, or is there no difference?

[Matt O]

Possibly a stupid question, but...

Given the same load being fired from both, and guns that are otherwise identical (let's say, stock) would the Gen 3 or Gen 4 be regarded as having less felt recoil, or is there no difference?

Negligible difference if any, imo. I'd pick one or the other based on the mag release or grip/beavertail options long before recoil set ups, particularly given that a lot of people who shoot glocks in competition end up going to non-captured guide rods with reduced power recoil springs anyway.

[Failure2Stop]

The 34 to the 17 feels about like the 17 to the 19 to me.
Not so much about less or more recoil, but more about slide cycle, sight tracking, and the extremely subjective "feel" of the gun. The 34 also comes out of the box with Glock's reduced weight trigger, which makes a difference to many shooters on the accuracy side of the equation. This is not a universal like though.

I find the 34 different enough from the 17 to make me choose to shoot the 17 in competition for a better cross-over of technique/ability.
If I was setting myself up to win, I would shoot a G35 in LTD (but not in production), and spend a lot of time on competition oriented skills.

[rob_s]

Negligible difference if any, imo. I'd pick one or the other based on the mag release or grip/beavertail options long before recoil set ups, particularly given that a lot of people who shoot glocks in competition end up going to non-captured guide rods with reduced power recoil springs anyway.

Only reason I ask is that any deviation from the G19s I already have is strictly recoil-sensitivity driven on my shooting arm, so differences that others may not notice can make the difference for me between finishing a match and not, or regretting it the next day or not.

[Matt O]

Only reason I ask is that any deviation from the G19s I already have is strictly recoil-sensitivity driven on my shooting arm, so differences that others may not notice can make the difference for me between finishing a match and not, or regretting it the next day or not.

Understood. In that case we might not be able to answer that question for you and it may require you trying both to see if there is a difference for you.

In the end though, my guess is you'll notice the greatest difference in shootability just moving from the 19 to the 17 or 34 rather than real differences between generations of either the 17 or 34.

[GJM]

I was very resistant to the 34, preferring the 17 for being easier for me to carry OWB and AIWB, and for being more reliable across a wider range of power factor ammo. This despite knowing what Robert Vogel, Origami and my wife think about the 34 being a better shooter.

Based on some prodding from YVK, I recently tried a 34 upper with the same sights as my 17 (on my 17 lower to keep everything else constant). After five range sessions, it was absolutely clear the 34 was easier to shoot in USPSA type shooting. I found the 17 a smidge easier to draw than the 34, and to shoot slightly smaller groups at 25 yards. The 34 absolutely ruled, though, on quick shooting at 15-30 yards on paper and steel. When I messed up trigger or sights slightly with the 17 resulting in a C, the 34 would most often still be an A. Pure speculation, but I attribute this to the 34 being better at aiming for a given amount of effort.

From a performance perspective for carry, I am indifferent between 19, 17 and 34, and actually prefer a G4 19. For USPSA, it is a Gen 3 34 all the way. (Vogel, Origami and my wife also agree on the Gen 3 34 for the slightly better trigger.)

[Surf]

I am not a competition shooter so I won't drift too far, but I do own several Glocks. Gen3's and Gen4's, in particular a Gen3 and Gen4 34. As mentioned box stock the triggers in the Gen3's are a bit better generally lighter in a one to one comparison but that is an easy fix. For myself the biggest factors for the Gen4 are the grip size, since I have medium hands with short finger reach, the magazine release button and the texture. Texture is a bit of a moot point as I texture my pistols, but if I was not able to do so the Gen4 is much better that the Gen3. So on the Gen 4, I can get a better trigger finger placement, more ideal grip on the weapon and I don't need to alter my grip or rotate the weapon to eject a magazine.

I am also in the camp that I seem to have better accuracy results on paper overall as a group with the Gen4's, but ironically one of my Gen3 19's is one of the most accurate Glocks I own and has the tightest lockup of any of my Glocks (stock barrel, not a fitted barrel) which I am sure is the reason. As for felt recoil in the two Generations 34 to 34, I can't really perceive much difference. I personally perform better back to back with my 17's. I really don't care for my 22 or 35 in a full load, but if you did your own loads to make certain power factors, it can be a good thing. But since I don't deal with that my .40 cal Glocks see very little use. I still have an unfired OD, Gen 3, G23 from several years ago that I have not fired.

[Failure2Stop]

Also keep in mind that part of the dominance of the 35 in USPSA is that it will get mouse-fart loads to major.

[GJM]

My impression is that the 34 is the dominant Glock and the 35 is much less common with the 2011 ruling Limited?

[Failure2Stop]

My impression is that the 34 is the dominant Glock and the 35 is much less common with the 2011 ruling Limited?

No doubt, 2011 type purpose-built limited guns are more prevalent on the winners' podium in my experience.
But for those that aren't dropping 4k on USPSA guns and mags, and aren't cleaning their mags after each stage, the 35 is a thing.

[45dotACP]

No.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

Well crap. But thank you! Seeing as Lone Wolf has a pretty decent sale, I am considering a G35 upper and playing in Limited...

[rob_s]

Looks like I might stick it out with the CZ afterall. While the first round thing is a problem, the subsequent rounds are far easier with the SA trigger on the CZ.

Went to the range this last Thursday with a friend and borrowed a G34 from him. The results are seen below. The head is the CZ, all shot SA, and the body is the G34. Not slow-fore, not rapid-fire, just press the trigger as soon as the sights are on the target. Not only is the CZ grouping more centered on the target, but it's tighter as well.

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10959832_839175982806172_2763008635489630789_n.jpg ?oh=6f06c44d4856908e293a72cc66e944de&oe=556EA0AA

[JV_]

Does your first round DA shot on the CZ land in a similar spot to your Glock group - low left?

[rob_s]

Big time low left, like down around the elbow for a COM shot.

What I discovered, however, is that even my SA first shots from the holster are down around the armpit. With the G34, first shot, last shot, whatever are all in the same, wider, area as one another.

What I've come to is that I only fire one first shot over stage, I can always make it up (excepting limited scoring), and it's better to have 17 shots in a 5" circle with one flier than 17 shots spread out over twice that area.

Also bear in mind, no practicing. No time, no interest, no care. I'm not looking to improve my skills, I'm looking for the toy that best masks the lack thereof.

I may, yet, swap out the trigger in the borrowed G34 for a whiz bang and see if it changes anything. I'm going to shoot the gun as-is in a classifier this coming Tuesday night to compare to last months CZ classifier. Then I may try to shoot another G34 classifier with a cheater trigger and see how that goes.

[JV_]

Also bear in mind, no practicing. No time, no interest, no care. I'm not looking to improve my skills, I'm looking for the toy that best masks the lack thereof. OK, thanks for being upfront.

Good luck finding your toy.

[pdb]

I'm not looking to improve my skills, I'm looking for the toy that best masks the lack thereof.


In my limited experience, the 1911 does a good job at this, once you get it running.

[GJM]

Rob, I thought mastering the DA and the DA/SA transition was on every shooter's bucket list? I bet in less time than it takes to update your rifle thingee, you could go out and own that DA trigger on the CZ. Grip the crap out of the pistol, and row through it without staging -- bet you would be surprised how quickly it feels like your friend.

[rob_s]

Rob, I thought mastering the DA and the DA/SA transition was on every shooter's bucket list? I bet in less time than it takes to update your rifle thingee, you could go out and own that DA trigger on the CZ. Grip the crap out of the pistol, and row through it without staging -- bet you would be surprised how quickly it feels like your friend.

I know it's hard for people on this forum to grasp, but this really is a hardware thread, not a software thread. I have no "shooter's bucket list", I do not enjoy shooting for shooting's sake in the least anymore, I have no desire to accumulate varied skills with vp varied systems platforms, and shooting for me is primarily about the social aspects of attending matches and other events.

I know exactly what I would need to do if I cared in the slightest about mastering anything, and I lack the time, interest, patience, and inclination to do it. As it is, I barely get time to get to matches (which, again, is the entire point of having guns like this), so the likelihood of chasing the dry fire fairies or going to the range to practice is nil.

[rob_s]

In my limited experience, the 1911 does a good job at this, once you get it running.


If I thought I could get my dream trifecta of 1911s for less than a quarter of the $10k that it prices out at currently, I would happily go down that road.

As it stands right now it appears that the CZ for competition and the throwaway plastic guns for defense are the way to go for me.

[GJM]

My response was about half in jest, but if you are serious, and want that CZ SA trigger, without the full two to three hours necessary to figure out how run it, you can:

1) just fire the first shot anywhere down range more than 10 feet from you

2) thumb cock after the beep

3) start with an empty chamber and rack her Israeli style

Shouldn't diminish the social aspects of the match at all.

[PPGMD]

Looks like I might stick it out with the CZ afterall. While the first round thing is a problem, the subsequent rounds are far easier with the SA trigger on the CZ.

Went to the range this last Thursday with a friend and borrowed a G34 from him. The results are seen below. The head is the CZ, all shot SA, and the body is the G34. Not slow-fore, not rapid-fire, just press the trigger as soon as the sights are on the target. Not only is the CZ grouping more centered on the target, but it's tighter as well.

2.5lb gun with a 2.5lb SA with a very short travel distance vs 6lb constant trigger on a 1.5lb gun.

It is really no contest for shooting them side by side. OTOH the differences do come in for things like transitions and such. Lighter gun means less mass to move around.

Anyways if you are looking for sights for any gun, I suggest you consider something with a .125" W and a very deep notch, with a .100" or .105" front sight. I've switched virtually all my guns to that.

[Gio]

2.5lb gun with a 2.5lb SA with a very short travel distance vs 6lb constant trigger on a 1.5lb gun.

It is really no contest for shooting them side by side. OTOH the differences do come in for things like transitions and such. Lighter gun means less mass to move around.


I agree, however, if he isn't even going to take the time to learn the DA to SA transition, target transitions are going to be a skill set that is going to be beyond his ability to do well (let alone to notice the difference between a 1.5 and 2.5 lb gun).

[rob_s]

I agree, however, if he isn't even going to take the time to learn the DA to SA transition, target transitions are going to be a skill set that is going to be beyond his ability to do well (let alone to notice the difference between a 1.5 and 2.5 lb gun).

I think you, and a few others, are approaching this as if I'm somehow new to all of this. I am not. I've done all the classes, chased all, the dry fire fairies, blah, blah, blah.

However there is a reality at the moment that I simply choose to do other things with my time besides practicing and training for shooting. I have other priorities such as family, work, friends, etc. I shoot plenty well, on most days, do classify Sharpshooter, and while that may not be much of an accomplishment to the intelligentsia on this forum, I've been around long enough to know that it puts me way ahead of the curve in terms of the general population. I've also been shooting competitions on and off, with various degrees of seriousness, for 10 years, so what I may lack in attention off the range I very often make up for in terms of simple stage planning, etc.

In other words, I don't need to practice or train to stay where I'm at, I can often win my division at local matches, and I'm just looking to maximize the gear for the realities of my situation.

[45dotACP]

I think you, and a few others, are approaching this as if I'm somehow new to all of this. I am not. I've done all the classes, chased all, the dry fire fairies, blah, blah, blah.

However there is a reality at the moment that I simply choose to do other things with my time besides practicing and training for shooting. I have other priorities such as family, work, friends, etc. I shoot plenty well, on most days, do classify Sharpshooter, and while that may not be much of an accomplishment to the intelligentsia on this forum, I've been around long enough to know that it puts me way ahead of the curve in terms of the general population. I've also been shooting competitions on and off, with various degrees of seriousness, for 10 years, so what I may lack in attention off the range I very often make up for in terms of simple stage planning, etc.

In other words, I don't need to practice or train to stay where I'm at, I can often win my division at local matches, and I'm just looking to maximize the gear for the realities of my situation.

Oddly, I think I see where you're coming from. Here's my take. For a game gun (for USPSA, because I haven't shot any IDPA...need to change that, but I digress), the first DA doesn't matter and here's why:

I have yet to see any shooter (even a very high class shooter) shoot all A's at their fastest speed. Except for maybe a GM (which you are not? I dunno what the IDPA ranking system is). USPSA is a speed based sport and you are rewarded more for smoking a stage than you are for taking your time to get all A's. I never shoot all A's, because if I shoot that slowly, I am not maximizing my score. At the same time, I see it this way...if you shoot the glock, you're handicapping yourself. The gun just obviously doesn't index well for you and to make it work would take time...time that you don't want to invest. I get that. I'm about to graduate college, and time is at a premium for me as well. If you shoot the CZ, you'll have fewer charlies overall.

Takeaways:
-If you shoot all A's, and somebody else shot faster than you, you are handicapping yourself.
-If you shoot a gun that doesn't work for you, you are handicapping yourself.
-If you shoot a gun that maybe throws one shot wild but puts the rest where you want them, you're fine: You're not trying to take a headshot on turrurists in the cabin of an airliner, so for a funsies gun, I say go nuts

Have fun either way! Just a quick question: Did that glock you shot have the Vogel trigger? If so, what were your impressions?