DA Trigger Presentation: potential training scar?

[JTPHD]

Hey everyone,

First of all- I want to thank all of you here who have shared your insight and experiences with TDA triggers, among other things. Since transitioning to the P07 (from Glock) over the last few months, I've seen quite an improvement in my overall shooting performance!

My question is, although it is faster to work the trigger as I'm extending out (as SMEs like Ernest Langdon demonstrate), does this create a bad habit in a self-defense context? Since I've trained for 1000s of reps to get aggressive on the trigger as part of the draw, is there a higher potential for an unwanted shot, when I only meant to draw the weapon?

Maybe this is a non-issue, just curious to see what you all have to say.

Jon

[ToddG]

I've heard this argument many times. (not that you are arguing it)

Basically, the idea is that we're so mindless and robotic that we don't know the difference between drawing to shoot and just drawing. The easiest question to ask is how many people fire the gun while drawing the gun to take it out of the holster at the end of a range session, end of the day, etc.? Probably fewer than the number who AD when using a light/short-travel trigger.

It's a complete non-issue invented purely in the minds of people who don't understand (a) the actual technique and (b) how skill building works on a neurological level.

[Sal Picante]

BTW, you can also train to just draw the gun to a sight picture really fast without manipulating the trigger... Valid exercise, IMHO.

[Casual Friday]

I do a fair bit of dry practice with my Sig Pro and I've never pulled the trigger unless I meant to.

[YVK]

When I shot a Glock, I pressed trigger too early approximately once every 6 months.

Now, three years working LEM and DA/SA triggers in presentation, I am yet to outrun my eyes with my trigger finger. I actually experimented with a Beretta several months ago to see what it would take to do that intentionally and how far I was from that during my normal draw. My conclusion was very reassuring.

[JHC]

When I shot a Glock, I pressed trigger too early approximately once every 6 months.

Now, three years working LEM and DA/SA triggers in presentation, I am yet to outrun my eyes with my trigger finger. I actually experimented with a Beretta several months ago to see what it would take to do that intentionally and how far I was from that during my normal draw. My conclusion was very reassuring.

And even in those early shots, you had already decided to shoot yes?

[YVK]

Yes, I was in a process of firing, but when my bullet hits a ceiling above the target, I generally consider this to be ever so slightly off :o

[GJM]

Yes, I was in a process of firing, but when my bullet hits a ceiling above the target, I generally consider this to be ever so slightly off :o

How did the muzzle get so high? :)

[YVK]

Long shot, aiming for head, low ceiling, 147 grain bullet...

[LSP552]

When I shot a Glock, I pressed trigger too early approximately once every 6 months.

Now, three years working LEM and DA/SA triggers in presentation, I am yet to outrun my eyes with my trigger finger. I actually experimented with a Beretta several months ago to see what it would take to do that intentionally and how far I was from that during my normal draw. My conclusion was very reassuring.

I'm much more aggressive on trigger prep with a SIG DA/SA than a Glock. I tend to start my trigger press a bit later in the press out with a Glock because if requires less travel and effort. While the concept is the same, I get my best results by treating them slightly different.

[JTPHD]

When I shot a Glock, I pressed trigger too early approximately once every 6 months.

Now, three years working LEM and DA/SA triggers in presentation, I am yet to outrun my eyes with my trigger finger. I actually experimented with a Beretta several months ago to see what it would take to do that intentionally and how far I was from that during my normal draw. My conclusion was very reassuring.

That happened to me a few months ago as well.

[JTPHD]

Thanks for the tips! Will definitely try them.

[CCT125US]

Since I've trained for 1000s of reps to get aggressive on the trigger as part of the draw, is there a higher potential for an unwanted shot, when I only meant to draw the weapon?

I have recently transitioned from the P30 v3 DA/SA to the LEM. I have about 75K rounds down range with roughly 1/3 to 1/4 being from the holster as a DA shot. Plus thousands of reps dryfire. I am very used to getting "aggressive" on the 10lb trigger. After a period of familiarity with the new gun in dryfire, I went several days without handling the new trigger. I stepped outside for the first live fire session. I typically start out by shooting 3x3 Post-It notes. Prior to the LEM, my time to first hit was in the range of 1.4 - 1.5 from concealment at 7yds. I mention this to give the time frame I was working with. On my first live fire press, within that time frame, with full intention of shooting, my brain kicked in and realized something was different and I chose not to shoot. You see, I meant to put 10lbs into that 5lb trigger, I really did forget I had a lighter trigger. But yet I was able to recognize that something had changed and stop the press. I actually said out loud "nyeti was right, I get it" Now does that apply to other guns and other shooters? I don't know. Maybe if the P30's trigger broke sooner than next month...

[YVK]

When I practice with my LEM guns, I try to spend a little time shooting a first DA shot so I don't give up that skill. After doing this for 15-20 rounds, the next first LEM shot is always interesting. Try it, see what you think.

Pro tip: while you can thumb-decock an LEM gun, blocking the fp with old punch works a lot better.