Staging vs consistent pull on a double action revolver.

[Wheeler]

What works for me is a staged trigger on precise shots. I can do it very well, as evidenced here:

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt86/Wheeler686/S%20and%20W/CFD6A6D7-2BC4-4F20-8FB5-7AF56A847987_zps5ahzagwm.jpg (http://s600.photobucket.com/user/Wheeler686/media/S%20and%20W/CFD6A6D7-2BC4-4F20-8FB5-7AF56A847987_zps5ahzagwm.jpg.html)

I can't say this is the best for everyone. As a matter of fact I can't stage the trigger on a revolver with a coiled mainspring worth a hoot.
If I'm shooting fast, I pull through. If I'm shooting at distance or making a precise shot, I stage the trigger.

It was brought up in another thread that I should try a pull through for precision shots. I've put a fair amount of practice in that and it just doesn't work well for me. Not for precision shots.

I'm interested in what other folks experience is as it seems the the general consensus is staging the trigger is a Bad Thing.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'd say if it works for you then carry on.

I see many people who stage the trigger, then get that last second jerk in at the end. I think a shooter should explore both methods, in dry and live fire.

[GJM]

I will tell you what Robbie Leatham says.

Jerk the trigger so it doesn't disturb the sights. To shoot faster, jerk it faster without disturbing the sights.

[taadski]

(snip) If I'm shooting fast, I pull through. If I'm shooting at distance or making a precise shot, I stage the trigger.

What if you need to make a precise shot at speed? ;)

FWIW, I cut my teeth on DA handguns and did a large portion of my learning back in the day with a wheelie. I got quite good at staging the trigger for precision oriented shots. And I didn't have much issue with snatching the trigger in anticipation. But I realized at some point that I was training myself into a bit of a corner and setting myself up to have issues when the speed picked up. I probably still have elements of staging going on to some extent, but these days I do everything I can to ensure the trigger keeps moving.


t

[45dotACP]

I had an interesting experience with my model 64 a while back. Shooting it at 10 or so yards at a 2 inch dot, I found I hit the dot less when I pulled the trigger smoothly and slowly, but I hit the dot more when I pulled the trigger quickly to the rear.

I think Alpha Sierra had an interesting point when he mentioned the use of an aggressive trigger press, because I have found that has been very effective for me.

I've heard people recommend squeezing the trigger more slowly for the longer hits because the speed at which one pulls the trigger will determine whether or not one gets any hits, but I think that's less true with a longer, heavier DA trigger. It seems to me, that my revolver is more forgiving of a fast, aggressive trigger press than my 1911 trigger.

If you have a good, solid trigger placement so that you move the trigger without disturbing the sights and you really bear down with the weak hand, I think the speed with which you press the trigger matters less.

[Lomshek]

What works for me is a staged trigger on precise shots. I can do it very well, as evidenced here:

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt86/Wheeler686/S%20and%20W/CFD6A6D7-2BC4-4F20-8FB5-7AF56A847987_zps5ahzagwm.jpg (http://s600.photobucket.com/user/Wheeler686/media/S%20and%20W/CFD6A6D7-2BC4-4F20-8FB5-7AF56A847987_zps5ahzagwm.jpg.html)

I can't say this is the best for everyone. As a matter of fact I can't stage the trigger on a revolver with a coiled mainspring worth a hoot.
If I'm shooting fast, I pull through. If I'm shooting at distance or making a precise shot, I stage the trigger.

It was brought up in another thread that I should try a pull through for precision shots. I've put a fair amount of practice in that and it just doesn't work well for me. Not for precision shots.

I'm interested in what other folks experience is as it seems the the general consensus is staging the trigger is a Bad Thing.

While that's good shooting is that an all the time thing you can do or once out of 20 rounds and at what distance?

Staging the trigger for most folks causes flinching and and is an unrealistic method of triggering the shot if we're talking about defensive use.
If precision shooting is defined as splitting a card in two and I have to use DA I'd stage it as well.
If precision shooting is a headshot at 15 yards one can do that DA with a smooth rapid stroke (with some practice).

[LSP552]

Like everything related to shooting, almost nothing is one way only for all people. Some things work better for some than others.

Having said that, once upon a time I was a middle of the pack master class PPC shooter. The LSP PPC team leader, and LSP firearms training supervisor at the time, was a national level PPC shooter holding multiple national records. I was taught that staging the trigger was an impediment to accuracy, especially at distance. I know that staging the trigger at the 50 yard line was worse for me than keeping the trigger moving.

Hopefully LSP972 will chime in with his thoughts. He was a High-Master PPC shooter, 1490 club member, and a national level revolver shooter.

[rsa-otc]

As I remember the LSP would field some very good shooters.

For a while during my time shooting PPC is was all the rage to glue a pencil eraser behind the trigger to aid in staging the trigger. Pull quickly until you made contact with the eraser and then slowly increase pressure against the eraser until the shot breaks. I never liked that so I always shot single action from the 50. The 25 a 50 were my bread and butter stages and I have quite a few stage wins over the years.

Staging the trigger works if you put time in practicing it to get your timing down and I still would see quite a few shooters miss the timing and blow through the staging point cranking a round off before they had settled in on the sights. The faster you go or the more stress involved the more likely you are to blow through that staging point. I much prefer a continuous pull from start to shot break watching my sights the entire time to adjust as needed. How fast and aggressive I am pulling through depends on the speed and accuracy requirements of the shot.

[Wheeler]

While that's good shooting is that an all the time thing you can do or once out of 20 rounds and at what distance?

Staging the trigger for most folks causes flinching and and is an unrealistic method of triggering the shot if we're talking about defensive use.
If precision shooting is defined as splitting a card in two and I have to use DA I'd stage it as well.
If precision shooting is a headshot at 15 yards one can do that DA with a smooth rapid stroke (with some practice).

I can't answer if it's an all the time thing or not. That was the first and only time I've tried it. That was done from a distance of roughly 15' and on the second shot. While I don't have pictures or video, I regularly shoot empty shotgun hulls at 15 yards. My limits are defined by what I can see.

I think it does us all a disservice to view everything shooting related from a defensive point of view.

[Robinson]

Probably 95% of the time I do not stage the trigger. I do practice it sometimes though and IMO it is possible to make slower more precision shots that way -- similar to cocking the hammer and shooting in single action mode. Even though some folks seem to be against any shooting in single action I still practice it sometimes. But for the most part I shoot double action and pull straight through without staging the trigger.

[Malamute]

Probably 95% of the time I do not stage the trigger. I do practice it sometimes though and IMO it is possible to make slower more precision shots that way -- similar to cocking the hammer and shooting in single action mode. Even though some folks seem to be against any shooting in single action I still practice it sometimes. But for the most part I shoot double action and pull straight through without staging the trigger.


^ ^ ^ This.

I shoot a majority single action. I can shoot DA OK (have managed to bang the 300 yard plate DA, but is much harder to do than SA), but most of my shooting practice is at distance, and one handed for much or most of it with revolvers. If I'm not in a hurry and want some degree of precision, I shoot SA.


And this,


I think it does us all a disservice to view everything shooting related from a defensive point of view.

Much of my revolver shooting is single action because I shoot single action revolvers a lot. I shoot mostly because I enjoy it. I try to be "practical" to some degree, and am interested in learning more practical stuff, but try to learn about a wide variety of skills and much of it field related. Some is just for fun, not much practical to some of it I suppose.

[BN]

I usually pull straight through without staging. I very seldom shoot SA.

When I do stage the trigger I pull straight through until I feel the cylinder lock up and the locking bolt has engaged the notch in the cylinder. Then I finish the trigger pull with a little more finesse. :)

[Lomshek]

I think it does us all a disservice to view everything shooting related from a defensive point of view.

I'll tip a bottle to that! :D Merry Christmas.

[ACP230]

I have tried both and settled on pulling straight through.

[serialsolver]

I found that staging the trigger worked best with colt revolvers cause they had a stack up in the action. I never could stage a smith revolver with a lot of success. For me the best smith revolver for a straight pull on the trigger was the n frame. There's something about getting that big cylinder turning then focus on the sights works well for me. For me in my country environment sa is important in those long shots.


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[TiroFijo]

Stagging a trigger is just another tool in the box, and it works very well (it does for me) if you master it. You can stage in an almos fluid movement, or be very deliberate.
Of course, for fast DA shooting I don't stage the trigger.

Don't just take my word for it:

http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/.../miculek4.html

"The next method of shooting a revolver is called staging a trigger and what that entails is that you grab the revolver in a standard firing mode, but you work your trigger really quick to the rear and that will index the cylinder fully and it will cock the hammer about three quarter of the way and with the last of the trigger pull, get a perfect sight of a alignment, and you press the trigger straight to the rear. This technique is really good on a hard shot or a long range target. It takes up about three quarters of the trigger pull and all you have to do is finish it off and make a real accurate shot."

Also in the famous video of Miculek's 1000 yds off shot with a revolver, he very clearly deliberately stages the trigger:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ3XwizTqDw

[Wheeler]

It's hard to argue with most anything Jerry says when comes to shooting, regardless of the gun.

I appreciate all the comments and experiences, even the anecdotal stuff. I was really hoping dome of the advocates of a consistent pull could post some groups or relay information about precision shooting at 25 yards or better. I neglected to include that in the original post.

[RevolverRob]

Oh I missed this thread.

So, staging the trigger for me seems to be gun dependent. A worked over Smith will often be smooth enough for me, that I end up stroking it back missing the staging point. Which, if I am deliberately trying to do it, ruins my shot. A stacking Colt on the other hand is much easier to stage. I can get it back to the break point and release it at the moment I want it to. Subsequently, I can make really nice 25 yard shots with a short barrel Colt.

That said, the gun I work the most on staging is actually my 642. It takes work, but I can stage the stock trigger on my 642 nicely. And I think it's a great tool for long shots with a little snub. I have great confidence in making high percentage shots with a 642. That said, when working on a more dynamic range, it's usually straight back pull-through. If I have the time I will go for the technique that will give me the best accuracy, but if I don't have the time, go with the faster pull.

[jetfire]

As mentioned in the other thread, I don't really recommend/use staging unless I'm shooting precision shots with no time pressure. For example, if I'm shooting groups with a DAO revolver I'll stage the trigger to get the most out of it that I can.

What I've found though is that staging is a lot like point shooting in a way. If I practice sighted fire, I don't need to practice point shooting because I'll have all the fundamentals down for times when point shooting might be appropriate. If I practice manipulating my revo triggers by pulling the trigger as fast as I can without disturbing my sight picture, I won't need to practice staging the trigger if I do use it.

Interestingly, the gun I'm most likely to stage the trigger while shooting is my j-frame. You'll almost never see me stage the trigger I a large frame revolver, but that's because the triggers on those guns are pretty good; I don't see a lot of point in staging a gun with a 7 pound DAO trigger.

[Wheeler]

As mentioned in the other thread, I don't really recommend/use staging unless I'm shooting precision shots with no time pressure. For example, if I'm shooting groups with a DAO revolver I'll stage the trigger to get the most out of it that I can.

What I've found though is that staging is a lot like point shooting in a way. If I practice sighted fire, I don't need to practice point shooting because I'll have all the fundamentals down for times when point shooting might be appropriate. If I practice manipulating my revo triggers by pulling the trigger as fast as I can without disturbing my sight picture, I won't need to practice staging the trigger if I do use it.

Interestingly, the gun I'm most likely to stage the trigger while shooting is my j-frame. You'll almost never see me stage the trigger I a large frame revolver, but that's because the triggers on those guns are pretty good; I don't see a lot of point in staging a gun with a 7 pound DAO trigger.

Interesting analogy comparing point shooting and sighted fire. I think it's off base simply because many good revolver shooters do stage the trigger, whereas point shooting is not considered a high level skill unless one is shooting from retention.

I don't think that any of my revolvers are down to 7 pounds DAO with the possible exception of my 686, which is due for a spring replacement and spa treatment so that probably doesn't count. Is the j-frame that light? Why do you think you catch yourself staging the trigger on your j-frame more than the larger guns? Is it trigger weight alone or are there other, identifiable factors?

[jetfire]

One of my GP100s has a seven pound trigger, and that gun only is for competition.

I catch myself staging the 640 trigger because it's my test platform for snub nosed defensive loads. Basically any time I have a new round to test from a little wheel gun, I trot that guy out and work it. So it ends up getting shot for groups, and staged a lot, even sometimes when I don't want to like at 7 yards.