Eotech EXPS3-0 + G33 Magnifier

[Unobtanium]

I have been searching for a unicorn for some time, now. A "do it all" optic. While everyone knows such a creature does not exist, I think I have come very close.

The good:

The Eotech is the fastest CQB optic I know of. It is a pure "assaulter" optic, and that's what you will see on the guns of those who assault. SEAL teams, SWAT officers, etc. I chose this optic because I do not leave a round in my M4. I leave it cruiser ready. If I can rack a charging handle, I can press a button to turn it on. The Aimpoint is the natural competitor of the Eotech, which is why I raise this. Further, you will likely have to adjust the Aimpoint or Eotech regardless, depending on ambient light, etc.

The Eotech has "clear" glass without a "tint". At night through the magnifier, this is VERY nice. Aimpoint isn't in the same ballpark, here.

It is ALL about gross-motor skills. There is no tiny ring, and there is no switch. You knock the magnifier out of the way---and that mount is SOLID. No flop, no rattle, and it is a very very decisive thing to move it from one position to the other.

The system is "adaptable", for example, if I am out hunting or whatnot, I can run the magnifier. If I have it by my bed, I can take the magnifier off and shed weight.

The bad:

It is heavy, about like a quality 1-6X optic + mount, with the magnifier in place.

It is expensive. Mine cost around $1,000 for the combo (or roughly 1/2 what a 6X optic runs...)

it only goes to 3X (for my environment, this is PLENTY. When I move, it will be MORE than plenty).

The Neutral:

Eye relief is decent. FAR better than a TA31 ACOG, but not quite as good as some of the best 1-6X optics.

The eyebox is decent. Again, not bad, but not great, either. I found it more tricky than the 1-6X scopes on 1X, but did not really mess with them on 3X, either, so it's hard to directly compare, but I wager it would perform about like a mid-grade 1-6X on 3X. Say, a Vortex, etc.


Over-all, I feel that the Eotech is one of the best RDS type optics available, and the G33 magnifier really gives it the legs someone might want for a 2-300 yard shot, or better PID, without breaking the bank, and without adding "mandatory" (you can't just cut the weight of a K16i in half when you turn it to 1X) weight or reducing 1X performance.

Forgive my ghetto "test platform", but my M4 doesn't need to be waggled around my neighborhood...Also, the reticle is centered when mounted on my rifle. Further, if it is NOT, you can adjust the position of the reticle in the magnifier via controls on the magnifier. This does NOT affect zero.

http://i61.tinypic.com/t7ixja.jpg

The balcony is at approximately 125m.

[rifleshooter]

Looks good dude.

Check out the specterDR 1-4. I think it's my favorite now. You can run just a 6MOA red dot over the reticle at 1x. It's big and bulky though.

[Chuck Haggard]

My problem with the EO Techs is that I keep killing them. Three personally owned sights so far in two different models, and another that was issued. Half the sights issued on my team were dead in under 2 years.

I got on the timer at the range and noted zero difference in first shot hits at the 7, 10, 25 and 50 yard lines between the EO and the Aimpoint sights.

That said, if it works for you, party on.

[Wayne Dobbs]

My problem with the EO Techs is that I keep killing them. Three personally owned sights so far in two different models, and another that was issued. Half the sights issued on my team were dead in under 2 years.

I got on the timer at the range and noted zero difference in first shot hits at the 7, 10, 25 and 50 yard lines between the EO and the Aimpoint sights.

That said, if it works for you, party on.

To steal Nyeti's quote on EOTurds: "An EO is an aquarium for your iron sights". Buy an Aimpoint PRO (which I've named "The EOTurd Killer") and quit worrying...

[Dagga Boy]

You will find that a bunch of those "assaulters" are less than thrilled with them when exposed to long term hard use. As long as you are happy.

Also regarding the "gross motor skills" and just knock it out of the way............have you ever actually run one in the field for any long period of time to form the opinion that having to something to move the sight out of the way may be a better bet? I use the laRue that requires a rearward pull for a reason.......and have used it in the field, and in aerial gunnery work to base my opinion on.

[Unobtanium]

My problem with the EO Techs is that I keep killing them. Three personally owned sights so far in two different models, and another that was issued. Half the sights issued on my team were dead in under 2 years.

I got on the timer at the range and noted zero difference in first shot hits at the 7, 10, 25 and 50 yard lines between the EO and the Aimpoint sights.

That said, if it works for you, party on.
Just curious, what models?

[Unobtanium]

You will find that a bunch of those "assaulters" are less than thrilled with them when exposed to long term hard use. As long as you are happy.

Also regarding the "gross motor skills" and just knock it out of the way............have you ever actually run one in the field for any long period of time to form the opinion that having to something to move the sight out of the way may be a better bet? I use the laRue that requires a rearward pull for a reason.......and have used it in the field, and in aerial gunnery work to base my opinion on.
Interesting. Everyone I have talked to liked them and was using years old 512s. In fact it was the exps that was the onky survivng rds type optic when tested on the mk17, iirc?, this is my first experience with the sts mounted magnifier. What issue did you have?

[GJM]

I happened to read this Defoor piece, because of another thread. It would appear he uses the XPS, would be interesting to know more:


http://kyledefoor.tumblr.com/page/3

[breakingtime91]

I happened to read this Defoor piece, because of another thread. It would appear he uses the XPS, would be interesting to know more:


http://kyledefoor.tumblr.com/page/3

For whatever reason (he didnt specify) he had to send his back to eotech... I know he still recommends them but exspresses disappointment in the durability department.

[HCM]

My agency is just beginning to transition from the EO tech 552 to the aim point H-1. Having been responsible for several dozen EO techs, my experience with the durability and reliability of the EO Tech 552's mirrors that of Chuck Haggard, Wayne and Nyeti. If you look through Kyle defoor's postings, you will find some tips and tricks for keeping your EO Tech going including covering rails with aluminum foil for secure mounting and using crazy glue to fix the springs and spring cups in the end of the battery box. These work but if I need aluminum foil and crazy glue to keep my optic functioning it may be a clue I need to look for a better solution.

In fairness, we purchased a small number of XPS for our SRT team prior to the aim point contract and they seem to hold up better than the dual battery models.

In my experience I shoot similar times with both the aim point and the EO tech reticles. Even with the 4MOA dot I seem to shoot better at longer distances (100 yards and beyond)with the aim point versus the EO tech.

Another thing to consider is your intended use for the rifle and optic. If you are executing pre-planned operations you have time to check your batteries and turn your sight on ahead of time. For a reactive/defensive application taking time to turn your sight on is one more thing to remember under stress, If I were pushing a black-and-white or needed a rifle for home defense I would want something that I can turn on and leave on so I can "grab and go ".

Sean M would be the best source of info regarding the SCAR Mk17 and optics. However, my recollection was the SCAR Mk17 was noted as and EO tech killer.

[Chuck Haggard]

Just curious, what models?

Started with whatever the early N battery model was, then several of the 552s, those were the ones I owned. Our team bought 552s, over half of those crapped the bed. One of the guys bought one of the sideways 123 battery style sights (no idea which model#) and it died inside of a year.

[Unobtanium]

My agency is just beginning to transition from the EO tech 552 to the aim point H-1. Having been responsible for several dozen EO techs, my experience with the durability and reliability of the EO Tech 552's mirrors that of Chuck Haggard, Wayne and Nyeti. If you look through Kyle defoor's postings, you will find some tips and tricks for keeping your EO Tech going including covering rails with aluminum foil for secure mounting and using crazy glue to fix the springs and spring cups in the end of the battery box. These work but if I need aluminum foil and crazy glue to keep my optic functioning it may be a clue I need to look for a better solution.

In fairness, we purchased a small number of XPS for our SRT team prior to the aim point contract and they seem to hold up better than the dual battery models.

In my experience I shoot similar times with both the aim point and the EO tech reticles. Even with the 4MOA dot I seem to shoot better at longer distances (100 yards and beyond)with the aim point versus the EO tech.

Another thing to consider is your intended use for the rifle and optic. If you are executing pre-planned operations you have time to check your batteries and turn your sight on ahead of time. For a reactive/defensive application taking time to turn your sight on is one more thing to remember under stress, If I were pushing a black-and-white or needed a rifle for home defense I would want something that I can turn on and leave on so I can "grab and go ".

Sean M would be the best source of info regarding the SCAR Mk17 and optics. However, my recollection was the SCAR Mk17 was noted as and EO tech killer.
I would be curious as well to hear his experiences. It seems that the Eotech is a very divisive optic. Almost like discussing religion. That said, it's the only optic I know of that is a RDS, that I can magnify without getting a smear of a dot. My T1 2 MOA that I have smears, doubling in size, and looks like a comma. Additionally, the blue tint of the Aimpoint kills light transmission in dusk/dawn (hunting) situations and makes it seem twice as dark out. To my eyes, anyway (20/10, maybe a touch of astigmatism, maybe?)

[Unobtanium]

Stared with whatever the early N battery model was, then several of the 552s, those were the ones I owned. Our team bought 552s, over half of those crapped the bed. One of the guys bought one of the sideways 123 battery style sights (no idea which model#) and it died inside of a year.

Do you know what died on it?

[Chuck Haggard]

Do you know what died on it?

On one the lens cracked and let moisture in while I was down at TEES doing a hostage rescue class, fogged up the unit, then it died completely, ran the rest of the course with BUISs. Mississippi is a bit humid in the summer I guess. The others were mostly battery contact issues that were never resolved by us or the factory after repeated attempts, a few others were the internals dying.

[HCM]

Everything has its strengths and weaknesses. The reticle is one of the strengths of the EO Tech. Some people like using the 6 o'clock hash mark as in aiming point instead of the dot at close distance 7 yards/inside rooms to compensate for offset. The nine and 3 o'clock hash marks can also be useful leading moving targets. However, the biggest plus for the EO Tech seems to be it shows up better for people with astigmatism or who have had certain types of laser eye surgery.

My aging eyes are no longer 20/20 but I see the aim point dot just fine. For those with issues there are a few workarounds that can help see the.more clearly. One is to flip up a co witnessed rear Peepsight and look at the dot through the aperture. This seems to clean up the dot for some people. Another technique is to look through the sight so the.appears near the lower edge of the site body. This also helps clean up the dot for some people. Wayne and and Nyeti may have some other suggestions.

I've only noticed the tinted lenses on the mini aim points . The 30 mm versions appear quite clear to me and I believe the tint was one of the things addressed on the new T2.

Another option for people with astigmatism are prismatic sights.

[HCM]

One issue we've noticed with the 552s has been corrosion in the battery compartment. We have brought a few sights back to life by cleaning the corrosion off the contacts with a pencil eraser.

[Unobtanium]

Everything has its strengths and weaknesses. The reticle is one of the strengths of the EO Tech. Some people like using the 6 o'clock hash mark as in aiming point instead of the dot at close distance 7 yards/inside rooms to compensate for offset. The nine and 3 o'clock hash marks can also be useful leading moving targets. However, the biggest plus for the EO Tech seems to be it shows up better for people with astigmatism or who have had certain types of laser eye surgery.

My aging eyes are no longer 20/20 but I see the aim point dot just fine. For those with issues there are a few workarounds that can help see the.more clearly. One is to flip up a co witnessed rear Peepsight and look at the dot through the aperture. This seems to clean up the dot for some people. Another technique is to look through the sight so the.appears near the lower edge of the site body. This also helps clean up the dot for some people. Wayne and and Nyeti may have some other suggestions.

I've only noticed the tinted lenses on the mini aim points . The 30 mm versions appear quite clear to me and I believe the tint was one of the things addressed on the new T2.

Another option for people with astigmatism are prismatic sights.
The T1 is fine for me until I magnify it. Then the obnoxious tint and "blob" of a dot happen.

I did find this in a review of the T1 vs. T2. T1 top, T2 bottom. Through magnifier.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/03/69573260a2d1cba293b200adb73cc3d9.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/03/fec745bd7538ee6628ff3042f9c57732.jpg

When I look at a T1 through my magnifier, I see what that guy's camera sees, except mine is bleeding to the bottom left. It makes me wonder...maybe I could run a T2 in front of my Eotech magnifier...save weight, increase durability, and clarity seems much less...blue. I can do the Aimpoint dot just fine, don't have a huge affinity for the EO reticle. Just love the clear glass and crisp dot.

[Unobtanium]

Well, my first hard use EXPS model is headed back to L3 shortly. I'm not sure what's wrong with it, but when I bought it, it was fine, and then I loaned it to a friend who used it to hold his rifle down which propped up a wall in his apartment for a half year or so. Anyway, somewhere along that abusive hard-knock timeframe, it developed an issue where the reticle looks funky in certain sections of the glass in a circle around the center. Dimmer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95bcKWlg0MM

I know it had has had a rough life holding that rifle down and all, but I'm a bit bummed. I don't think he ever fired the rifle with it attached. I didn't, either. Loaned it pretty soon after I got it.

[TCinVA]

I don't think the EOTech v. Aimpoint "debate" is really all that divisive or controversial, personally. I just see it more as those who have watched EOTechs die vs. those who haven't seen it. Yet. The police departments in my area were all hot and bothered about the EOTechs for a while...then after a couple of years of finding dead batteries and broken optics on rifles that weren't really shot beyond qualifying they ditched them and bought Aimpoints.

[LittleLebowski]

I happened to read this Defoor piece, because of another thread. It would appear he uses the XPS, would be interesting to know more:


http://kyledefoor.tumblr.com/page/3

Defoor told me and a class full of students that while deployed in the field, he changed his Eotech batteries every day.

[TCinVA]

Defoor told me and a class full of students that while deployed in the field, he changed his Eotech batteries every day.

I once chatted with a couple of guys from Jacksonville SO SWAT team (a pretty squared away outfit) who mentioned their disillusionment with EOTechs after standing at the ready on a barricaded suspect for a couple of hours who happened to go jackrabbit out of the building just after the EOTechs turned themselves off. Because it's not like somebody might need to be ready to shoot in an instant for a few hours or anything...

Batteries was the biggie for the local PDs. It was especially bad in one PD who kept carbines in a locker until approved for limited deployment. On the rare occasions where they were pulled out (qualifying, usually) the optics were dead across the board because they'd eaten their batteries. In fairness, the optics worked better than the heinous builds they had attached them to, but still.

[GJM]

So what would be the best non Aimpoint red dot on a carbine -- RMR, Delta Point or Eo?

[orionz06]

I think Pannone was using RMR's.


Not sure how that fits into good better best but they're pretty decent and handle the recoil from being on a slide.

[Default.mp3]

So what would be the best non Aimpoint red dot on a carbine -- RMR, Delta Point or Eo?

There's also the Trijicon SRS and the new Leupold LCO; also maybe one of the Mepro optics, not sure if those are worth a damn (though I doubt it), or one of the Zeiss offerings. The Deltapoint Pro might beat out the RMR on the MRDS side of things for carbines. And FWIW, I've been told there's a new optic coming out that will blow the competition away; comes from a reliable source, but beyond that little tidbit, don't know anything else, not even manufacturer or approximate release date, so who knows, although I'm inclined to think it's an MRDS rather than a full sized one, given the source's focus.

[jetfire]

So what would be the best non Aimpoint red dot on a carbine -- RMR, Delta Point or Eo?

I've run RMRs on all my carbines on the reg with no issues, but I'm not a real "hard use" rifle shooter. But I've got one that's been on 3 different rifles in as many years and has yet to have a problem. One of those years was spent doing some reasonably serious shooting/getting banged around.

[witchking777]

I have been searching for a unicorn for some time, now. A "do it all" optic. While everyone knows such a creature does not exist, I think I have come very close.

The good:

The Eotech is the fastest CQB optic I know of. It is a pure "assaulter" optic, and that's what you will see on the guns of those who assault. SEAL teams, SWAT officers, etc. I chose this optic because I do not leave a round in my M4. I leave it cruiser ready. If I can rack a charging handle, I can press a button to turn it on. The Aimpoint is the natural competitor of the Eotech, which is why I raise this. Further, you will likely have to adjust the Aimpoint or Eotech regardless, depending on ambient light, etc.

The Eotech has "clear" glass without a "tint". At night through the magnifier, this is VERY nice. Aimpoint isn't in the same ballpark, here.

It is ALL about gross-motor skills. There is no tiny ring, and there is no switch. You knock the magnifier out of the way---and that mount is SOLID. No flop, no rattle, and it is a very very decisive thing to move it from one position to the other.

The system is "adaptable", for example, if I am out hunting or whatnot, I can run the magnifier. If I have it by my bed, I can take the magnifier off and shed weight.

The bad:

It is heavy, about like a quality 1-6X optic + mount, with the magnifier in place.

It is expensive. Mine cost around $1,000 for the combo (or roughly 1/2 what a 6X optic runs...)

it only goes to 3X (for my environment, this is PLENTY. When I move, it will be MORE than plenty).

The Neutral:

Eye relief is decent. FAR better than a TA31 ACOG, but not quite as good as some of the best 1-6X optics.

The eyebox is decent. Again, not bad, but not great, either. I found it more tricky than the 1-6X scopes on 1X, but did not really mess with them on 3X, either, so it's hard to directly compare, but I wager it would perform about like a mid-grade 1-6X on 3X. Say, a Vortex, etc.


Over-all, I feel that the Eotech is one of the best RDS type optics available, and the G33 magnifier really gives it the legs someone might want for a 2-300 yard shot, or better PID, without breaking the bank, and without adding "mandatory" (you can't just cut the weight of a K16i in half when you turn it to 1X) weight or reducing 1X performance.

Forgive my ghetto "test platform", but my M4 doesn't need to be waggled around my neighborhood...Also, the reticle is centered when mounted on my rifle. Further, if it is NOT, you can adjust the position of the reticle in the magnifier via controls on the magnifier. This does NOT affect zero.

http://i61.tinypic.com/t7ixja.jpg

The balcony is at approximately 125m.

I have no problem shooting small teacup plates at 300 yds off a bipod with my EXPS3-0,to the haters the XPS and EXPS line of sights fix the battery issue,one cr123 mounted transverse,the QD mount on mine locks up super tight,I like that you can estimate the MOA distance between dot and bottom half of the circle(32.5 moa),it's proven to be the fastest aiming device,I had the g33,liked it but with my vision it didn't help much,I need 9x+ to get any help lol....and didn't CRANE select the EXPS3-0 as their official CQ optic? I can't see them selecting junk....the factory brightness when you turn it on (12) is perfect in conjunction with my 600 lumen streamlight in the dead of night

[witchking777]

There's also the Trijicon SRS and the new Leupold LCO; also maybe one of the Mepro optics, not sure if those are worth a damn (though I doubt it), or one of the Zeiss offerings. The Deltapoint Pro might beat out the RMR on the MRDS side of things for carbines. And FWIW, I've been told there's a new optic coming out that will blow the competition away; comes from a reliable source, but beyond that little tidbit, don't know anything else, not even manufacturer or approximate release date, so who knows, although I'm inclined to think it's an MRDS rather than a full sized one, given the source's focus.

My brother had the Mepro similar to the Trijicon,nice sight but that blue tint drove me nuts

[Tamara]

I think Pannone was using RMR's.


Not sure how that fits into good better best but they're pretty decent and handle the recoil from being on a slide.

Yeah, an informal straw poll of cool kids would seem to point at RMRs right now. I have no issues with the Deltapoint on my spare M&P, but if I were to put an MRDS on a carbine right now it would likely be an RMR, just because it's a bit more butterfingers-proof and even my city-dweller cake-eating long guns get banged around more than my pistols.

[jetfire]

I have no problem shooting small teacup plates at 300 yds off a bipod with my EXPS3-0,to the haters the XPS and EXPS line of sights fix the battery issue,one cr123 mounted transverse,the QD mount on mine locks up super tight,I like that you can estimate the MOA distance between dot and bottom half of the circle(32.5 moa),it's proven to be the fastest aiming device,I had the g33,liked it but with my vision it didn't help much,I need 9x+ to get any help lol....and didn't CRANE select the EXPS3-0 as their official CQ optic? I can't see them selecting junk....the factory brightness when you turn it on (12) is perfect in conjunction with my 600 lumen streamlight in the dead of night

Meet my friend (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/10/11).

[witchking777]

Meet my friend (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/10/11).

Lmao what the heck is that?!?

[witchking777]

Aimpoint makes a great product and if I left it on all the time.....

[Chuck Haggard]

I have no problem shooting small teacup plates at 300 yds off a bipod with my EXPS3-0,to the haters the XPS and EXPS line of sights fix the battery issue,one cr123 mounted transverse,the QD mount on mine locks up super tight,I like that you can estimate the MOA distance between dot and bottom half of the circle(32.5 moa),it's proven to be the fastest aiming device


"It's proven to be the fastest aiming device"

By who? I noted earlier in this thread that I have put myself on the timer and found that the EO reticle and the Aimpoint dot are pretty much the same for me. Is there a definitive study that you are aware of that actually shows the EO reticle is faster? Have you tested this yourself, on the timer/on paper?


Reference "haters", IMHO it's not hatin to be accurately reporting issues, and numerous ones at that, with a piece of gear. Note that I bought three of the EOs that I owned out of pocket. I obviously WANTED those sights to work.

[Chuck Haggard]

Lmao what the heck is that?!?

I believe Caleb is hinting at the lack of readability of your post due to your failure to apply simple grammar rules.

[witchking777]

"It's proven to be the fastest aiming device"

By who? I noted earlier in this thread that I have put myself on the timer and found that the EO reticle and the Aimpoint dot are pretty much the same for me. Is there a definitive study that you are aware of that actually shows the EO reticle is faster? Have you tested this yourself, on the timer/on paper?


Reference "haters", IMHO it's not hatin to be accurately reporting issues, and numerous ones at that, with a piece of gear. Note that I bought three of the EOs that I owned out of pocket. I obviously WANTED those sights to work.

Only test was hunting jackrabbits with my brother( him with his Mepro red dot on a p90),I was much faster with my full size carbine and shot 3 in a few seconds,he was having trouble finding them up close due to the blue tint(wintertime)....a sight that caught my eye is the rmr led 1moa,any experience with it? Or my ultimate gunlust item,the VCOG?

[witchking777]

I believe Caleb is hinting at the lack of readability of your post due to your failure to apply simple grammar rules.

Stupid IPhone

[Chuck Haggard]

Only test was hunting jackrabbits with my brother( him with his Mepro red dot on a p90),I was much faster with my full size carbine and shot 3 in a few seconds,he was having trouble finding them up close due to the blue tint(wintertime)....a sight that caught my eye is the rmr led 1moa,any experience with it? Or my ultimate gunlust item,the VCOG?

Two different shooters, two different results. Not exactly definitive.

Feelings (http://pistol-training.com/archives/5108)are an unreliable source of information.

I do not have experience with the other sights you asked about.

[jetfire]

I believe Caleb is hinting at the lack of readability of your post due to your failure to apply simple grammar rules.

That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me today.

[witchking777]

That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me today.

I think it's hilarious,your post made my day:D

[witchking777]

Two different shooters, two different results. Not exactly definitive.

Feelings (http://pistol-training.com/archives/5108)are an unreliable source of information.

I do not have experience with the other sights you asked about.

Very true about two different shooters,I guess I like Eotech because it has a 1 moa dot and I'm used to it.

[Unobtanium]

Well, I came, I saw, I left. The EoTech does not meet my rigorous standards. I tested this one for about 1.5 years. It was left in my closet, and then loaned to a friend who attached it to a rifle, and left it in his closet. After this rigorous testing, it was noted that the display HUD window had began de-laminating. The failure is shown in this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95bcKWlg0MM

L3 repaired my optic within a week, though, and sent it back. This is how it looks, now (perfect):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3GMo8qZocA

Anyway, given how it performed when I really tested its mettle, I just sold it. I need something that can stand up to the harsh environment of my indoor closet. I've opted to go with a VCOG, instead of an RDS/MAG. It should do fine leaned up in the safe or closet or even...by the side of my bed.

/Satire, but the struggle and failure was real!

[HCM]

..and didn't CRANE select the EXPS3-0 as their official CQ optic? I can't see them selecting junk....t

Having seen behind the curtain of .MIL and .GOV equipment selection processes, I am reminded of the quote from German Chancellor Bismarck:

"if one is to retain respect for both laws and sausages, they should not pay too much attention to the making of either.'

[NickDrak]

I call shenanigans! I heard that cat meowing in your video....I blame the cat.


Well, I came, I saw, I left. The EoTech does not meet my rigorous standards. I tested this one for about 1.5 years. It was left in my closet, and then loaned to a friend who attached it to a rifle, and left it in his closet. After this rigorous testing, it was noted that the display HUD window had began de-laminating. The failure is shown in this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95bcKWlg0MM

L3 repaired my optic within a week, though, and sent it back. This is how it looks, now (perfect):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3GMo8qZocA

Anyway, given how it performed when I really tested its mettle, I just sold it. I need something that can stand up to the harsh environment of my indoor closet. I've opted to go with a VCOG, instead of an RDS/MAG. It should do fine leaned up in the safe or closet or even...by the side of my bed.

/Satire, but the struggle and failure was real!

[NickDrak]

On a serious note, it looks "like" 99% of the reports of dead Eotechs are regarding the old N cell or 500 series Eotechs, and not the newer XPS/EXPS models.

I run my 4 year old EXPS 2-0 everyday at work on my patrol rifle. I have a reminder set on my phone that tells me to replace the battery in it every 60 days. I have never had the battery drain on me using this method, and I estimate I could easily get 3x the service life out of each battery in it, but won't l push in past 60 days in my work gun. I run the cheap $1/per "Titanium" brand CR123s from BatteryJunction.com and have been using them in all my lights as well for over 10 years now without an issue.

Defoor also mentioned to us in a class that his entire team swapped batteries in their Eotechs everyday as SOP. Not because they didn't trust them. They swapped new batteries everyday in all of their kit. They would have swapped the battery daily "if" they ran Aimpoint's as well....but they didn't. And they still don't.

[LittleLebowski]

Defoor also mentioned to us in a class that his entire team swapped batteries in their Eotechs everyday as SOP. Not because they didn't trust them. They swapped new batteries everyday in all of their kit. They would have swapped the battery daily "if" they ran Aimpoint's as well....but they didn't. And they still don't.

Noted. Inbound PM.

[witchking777]

On a serious note, it looks "like" 99% of the reports of dead Eotechs are regarding the old N cell or 500 series Eotechs, and not the newer XPS/EXPS models.

I run my 4 year old EXPS 2-0 everyday at work on my patrol rifle. I have a reminder set on my phone that tells me to replace the battery in it every 60 days. I have never had the battery drain on me using this method, and I estimate I could easily get 3x the service life out of each battery in it, but won't l push in past 60 days in my work gun. I run the cheap $1/per "Titanium" brand CR123s from BatteryJunction.com and have been using them in all my lights as well for over 10 years now without an issue.

Defoor also mentioned to us in a class that his entire team swapped batteries in their Eotechs everyday as SOP. Not because they didn't trust them. They swapped new batteries everyday in all of their kit. They would have swapped the battery daily "if" they ran Aimpoint's as well....but they didn't. And they still don't.

My thoughts exactly,and would SOCOM run garbage? methinks not.

[breakingtime91]

My thoughts exactly,and would SOCOM run garbage? methinks not.

what do you have to back that up? Majority of people in the military run what is easily available, even specialized units. There are a couple guys I have served with that have gone on to bigger and better things in the Marine Corps and both have mentioned less then stellar opinions on the Eotech.

I am not trying to sound rude because I am also struggling with getting used to the H1 on a carbine. All of my experience in combat was with the acog and it is taking me awhile to get used to the red dot..

[LittleLebowski]

My thoughts exactly,and would SOCOM run garbage? methinks not.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's very hard to make definitive black and white rules about the military.

[TCinVA]

My thoughts exactly,and would SOCOM run garbage?

They bought Serpas, so yeah. They occasionally do.

[GJM]

Yeah, but which optic has the lower parts count -- and is more or less parts better?

[breakingtime91]

being durable and reliable is better.. part count doesn't assure anything. I think putting this logic to everything and anything is flawed.

[GJM]

being durable and reliable is better.. part count doesn't assure anything. I think putting this logic to everything and anything is flawed.

It was a joke.

[orionz06]

Yeah, but which optic has the lower parts count -- and is more or less parts better?

Where's the poll?!?

[breakingtime91]

It was a joke.

sorry, web forums are my enemy today.

[Unobtanium]

I bought my EOtechs after training with some SOCOM guys who loved theirs. They could run anything they wanted, but chose EO. Now some of them have gone on to 1-6X variables, and so am I, but for different reasons. Regardless, having mine die while sitting on a shelf just sets so very wrong.

[YVK]

Two weeks ago I picked up my SCAR 16 that has an Aimpoint M4 on it. It is meant as my "go to" rifle. The dot was dead. I am going to say, 5 years on that battery. The dot on my XPS next to it wasn't dead at all because auto shutoff.
What I learned from this is that I need to replace battery on both at the same intervals, and maybe turn off my Aimpoint too.

I am no special force, but I do prefer Eo's reticle.

[Chuck Haggard]

Two weeks ago I picked up my SCAR 16 that has an Aimpoint M4 on it. It is meant as my "go to" rifle. The dot was dead. I am going to say, 5 years on that battery. The dot on my XPS next to it wasn't dead at all because auto shutoff.
What I learned from this is that I need to replace battery on both at the same intervals, and maybe turn off my Aimpoint too.

I am no special force, but I do prefer Eo's reticle.

I leave my Aimpoints on all the time. I tend to change the battery every year though, just because.

[orionz06]

I leave my Aimpoints on all the time. I tend to change the battery every year though, just because.

I just moved a stashed AR with a micro. It's been on for 3 years and was good to go still.

[El Cid]

Stupid phone - please delete.

[El Cid]

I think Pannone was using RMR's.
In June he had an EOTech on his rifle.


"It's proven to be the fastest aiming device"

By who? I noted earlier in this thread that I have put myself on the timer and found that the EO reticle and the Aimpoint dot are pretty much the same for me. Is there a definitive study that you are aware of that actually shows the EO reticle is faster? Have you tested this yourself, on the timer/on paper?

FWIW, a reliable source shared with me that JSOC tested them and found the EOTech reticle faster. Notably in shot to shot transitions.

As for my personal experiences I've had a 512 fail (battery terminal related) and seen 2 of them on my squad die when a piece inside came loose. And those 2 rifles were shot once or twice a year and ride around in vehicles a lot. I was considering trying an EXPS for my next build based on the recommendation of guys like Pannone and Defoor swearing the issues are not found in those models. But after reading unobtanium's post in not so sure...

[LHS]

I just moved a stashed AR with a micro. It's been on for 3 years and was good to go still.

I change the batteries in my Aimpoints every presidential election whether they need it or not.

[Kyle Reese]

I've got an Aimpoint ML 2 that's been on for about five years.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[LHS]

That said, I've personally seen multiple EOTechs shit the bed. I've yet to see an Aimpoint choke and die. I know it's happened, but it doesn't seem to be nearly the regular occurrence that it is with EOs.

[Unobtanium]

https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/11133895_741726124341_7076258069785787627_o.jpg?ef g=eyJpIjoidCJ9
I have so far had 3 other people look through my T2 and G33 combo. Everyone wonders...is the t2 really a crisp dot or not? 1 person said it was like 2 dots on top of each other. Myself and the other 2 see a crisp dot. Defined edges. To be fair to the guy who didn't see this...he did not adjust the diopter. It may well have been an issue of diopter. But to me once it's dialed in, I saw a very crisp dot!
http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrf290.jpg

So how does it do in the real world? Well, I stuck to 50 yards because that is the limit at which with my vision I can shoot the same groups roughly magnified or unmagnified. My first test was for POI shift from unmagnified (group on the left) to magnified (group on the right). I used RA556B for this test. 5 show groups.
https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/885607_741888159621_1348462803880195512_o.jpg?efg= eyJpIjoidCJ9


Next was my question of...does the dot have to be centered in the g33? What if the adjustment knobs get messed with after I zero? So I fired 3 rounds with the dot centered. 3 rounds with the magnifier adjusted so that the dot was in the extreme bottom left and 3/4 of the sigh picture was shadowed. Then did the same with the dot in the upper right. 9 shots total at 50 yards. I used mk262 IMI. Please excuse my flier. I am not Molon, and this is a chrome lined .gov 16" barrel.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/11082340_741888483971_3523730073976045384_o.jpg?ef g=eyJpIjoidCJ9

As you can see...poi shift seems nonexistent. I am very pleased with the added capabilities that the g33 brings to the t2. Total weight with mounts is roughly 17oz.

Oh...and here is my Internet commando group of the day. 3 shots ra556b unmagnified at 50y. Ignore the one flier...:P
https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/11082191_741889347241_6121921958663045436_o.jpg?ef g=eyJpIjoidCJ9


Quirks...

When magnified in the right light you can see the diode housing faintly around the dot if you dial illumination a couple settings higher than necessary. It's a quirk but a non issue.

The bobro absolute cw spacer is too low for the g33 without riser. The lower 1/3 bobro is perfect as pictured.

Having a suppressed m4 on a public range gets me more attention that driving a c6 z06 did. If you want to be popular...

The magnifier didn't much improve my groups if any at 50, but it was very useful for making those shots easily. I had to work without it.

I think the adjustable diopter is mandatory for a clear dot. This made the g33 my choice over the Aimpoint model.

"Bloom" around the dot is much more noticeable with the G33 in place. Dot intensity matters more than unmagnified but it won't hurt ability to engage. It just isn't picture perfect. There is some halo/Starburst around the still crisp and defined dot.

It looks like at 50 yards with a rds my ddm4 is a 1 moa gun with mk262 and a 2 moa gun with ra556b. Not shabby!

[HCM]

Govt. sues L3 for $26 million fraud over SOCCOM Eo-Tech issues.

http://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/24/us-government-sues-l3-communications-for-fraud-involving-eotech-sights/