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GardoneVT
12-15-2014, 07:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dj4ARsxrZh8


With constituents like these, who's going to go about the work of putting bad folk away? Bad enough judges let repeat criminals onto the street, and now this kind of nonsense. Will "call 911 in case of emergency" be replaced in the years to come with "call your insurance company and don't bother the understaffed , underfunded and de-motivated cops with your emergency "?

As someone perhaps foolishly considering this line of work, im curious where all this leads. Is this a phase, or should we consider proactive LE a dying profession?

MD7305
12-15-2014, 07:47 PM
None of this is really new, it's just getting lots of media attention. I had a conversation with some old school guys last week. They mentioned this comes in cycles. Cops are hated, something happens and they're loved again, then something else happens and we're on the poo-poo list again. My advice: if you care what the general public thinks of you and need approval from society, don't be a cop. My first day in uniform, riding in a marked car was uncomfortable a bit cause you could feel the hate some people have for you solely for what you represent. After almost a decade, it doesn't bother me because I don't care, I'm not going to change their mind so I'm not going to lose sleep over it. There are a lot of folks who care for and support the police, those are the folks who make it all worth it.

The future of LE will continue on with people who believe in good vs. evil, are willing to fight the good fight, help folks in need and keep our society from falling on its face. That might sound naive or simplistic but I really believe it. LE has job security just like doctors and garbage collectors, there will always be turds and a need for cleaning those messes up.

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be cops. If they do, God bless them.

KevH
12-15-2014, 08:09 PM
It comes in waves. There are some bad times (like the 1970's and just after Rodney King) and there are some good times.

KeeFus
12-15-2014, 08:56 PM
As someone perhaps foolishly considering this line of work, im curious where all this leads. Is this a phase, or should we consider proactive LE a dying profession?

As was already mentioned, I think it's a phase. One of my instructors in 1994 said that LE was on a pendulum. Sometimes it swings in the good...then the bad. Its just in the bad right now. Having said all that...6 years and they can have it. I've grown loathsome with the way that admins treat the rank and file. As nyeti has repeatedly stated...you are just a hanger for the uniform. I have seen good cops leave after being brow beaten enough for not playing nice pooleece. I actually had more respect for the thugs at my first agency than the Chief and his cheesedicks.

Trooper224
12-16-2014, 07:43 AM
I currently tell anyone interested in LE work to change their mind, They'll spend the prime of their lives being societies garbage man and being treated like a redheaded step child for their efforts. Let someone else, or no one else do it. Let society fend for itself. The problem with the pendulum analogy is it tends to swing in decades. Right now we're on the downswing, so a career is likely to be a shite infested sink hole.

KeeFus
12-16-2014, 07:59 AM
I currently tell anyone interested in LE work to change their mind, They'll spend the prime of their lives being societies garbage man and being treated like a redheaded step child for their efforts. Let someone else, or no one else do it. Let society fend for itself. The problem with the pendulum analogy is it tends to swing in decades. Right now we're on the downswing, so a career is likely to be a shite infested sink hole.

I agree that we are currently in a downswing. I have one child that has seen all the crap I have dealt with and she still wants to do it. At every turn I try to show her the downside that most other folks do not see...I hope that it takes hold. I also tell others that right now isn't the best time for this profession. One of my lifelong friends son wants to be one some kind of bad. I spoke with him the other night and his eyes get all lit up with excitement as he talks about being a LEO someday...I really hope he changes his mind.

In other news, yesterday SCOTUS delivered an opinion for LE. This case has been debated in in-service classes for the last 2 or 3 years. Glad to see it has come to a final resolution and it was a decision for us (8-1, with the sole dissenting view coming from Justice Sonia Sotomayor).

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/13-604_ec8f.pdf

Dagga Boy
12-16-2014, 08:00 AM
It does come in swings and waves. If we look at law enforcement as a mirror of their community and that communities get the policing they deserve, you will see changes as a communities values and needs change. Right now the air is such that the most vocal voices (which the politicians react to rather than their own values) are that communities want "protection" and "service" with no teeth. They want De-fanged and De-clawed lions and think those lions will have the same effect on society's Hyena's as the lion with Fangs and Claws. When the Hyena's figure out that the lions have no enforcement tools and only a simple presence where they can chase them but not catch them and then have no means to inflict any consequence when caught, the Hyena's will run rampant amongst the soft animals and "get paid" while the lions nap and self preserve themselves. Eventually, society "may" decide they want the lions back. In some places they will not tolerate De-Fanged and De-clawed lions and they will remain save and secure communities, others will decide they want to go back to the Hyena's getting removed, and others will never recover.

MDFA
12-16-2014, 12:25 PM
After 37 years on the job I too have seen the swings in how we're looked upon. There will always be those that love us and those that hate us, part of which depends if they're finger is pressing 911 at the moment. As I tell people " As long as there are assholes and alcohol, I'll be busy. Remove one or the other and I'll still have 50 percent, so I'll still be busy. That being said, I can't wait to retire as I've had enough.

1slow
12-16-2014, 03:35 PM
It is the old story of the western gunfighter. When trouble is coming everybody wants your help. After the particular trouble is over they can't get shut of you fast enough.
After the fact the helpless turn on their rescuers because they can regain a sense of power, complaining about the methodology of their saving, that they lost while being terrorized.
Colonel Cooper said, "copers (people who cope) are a living indictment to non copers."
It never occurs to idiots that you need to stay ready. You usually won't have lead time.

LSP552
12-16-2014, 08:15 PM
I currently tell anyone interested in LE work to change their mind, They'll spend the prime of their lives being societies garbage man and being treated like a redheaded step child for their efforts. Let someone else, or no one else do it. Let society fend for itself. The problem with the pendulum analogy is it tends to swing in decades. Right now we're on the downswing, so a career is likely to be a shite infested sink hole.

I spent 34 years carrying one badge or another. There is no way I'd start a law enforcement career today.

LSP972
12-16-2014, 08:39 PM
I spent 34 years carrying one badge or another. There is no way I'd start a law enforcement career today.

Right; you chose to ride herd on an office full of women who hate each other.

I dunno which is worse…


.

LSP552
12-16-2014, 11:25 PM
Right; you chose to ride herd on an office full of women who hate each other.

I dunno which is worse…


.

The BIG difference is I can just walk away when I feel like it..;)

LSP972
12-17-2014, 10:10 AM
The BIG difference is I can just walk away when I feel like it..;)

Indeed.

But those snarling females, AND having to deal with the feds on a regular basis… you're a better man than me, old buddy.

.

45dotACP
12-17-2014, 01:45 PM
I saw a video on Youtube a little while ago where cops took a lifesaving shot on a dude holding a knife to his girlfriend's throat. What seemed to make her angry was the fact that they killed the guy holding a knife to her throat, threatening to kill her. She just kept telling the cops "you didn't have to kill him!" and it didn't seem to sink in.

Thank God for you guys, seriously. I'd never be able to do a job like that. Save my own life or the life of a family member, sure. But I'd never be able to just roll up on a situation like that, make a tough call and an even tougher shot, and then have people screaming mad at me for saving their life. I'd be ready to retire three weeks into the job.

BWT
12-17-2014, 02:27 PM
The reality is everyone interacts with LE.

I believe everyone forms an opinion of them because of it.

Politicians and Citizens throw them under the bus often times because of things they're required to do but we have the convenience of never having to deal with what they do.

I saw enough of that working in counter theft to realize I just couldn't work in LE and keep my humanity.

Heck, I work with employees now and fix their issues in my current job. Those relationships can deteriorate very quickly even after years of dedication and meeting needs. I was troubleshooting an application yesterday and after speaking with the lead administration of that product; he indicated this was a known issue and the vendor acknowledged it. She didn't care that I'd done everything within my ability; she was just displeased and wasn't shy about it and proceeded to tell me she shouldn't be in these circumstances. I was able to fix it eventually (and if that doesn't work then there really is no solution) but that's just how people can be.

That's customer service now imagine being in LE and that person may try to kill you or incriminate you falsely to cover themselves, etc. I just realized I didn't like the emotional mileage that came with that job. I just started mistrusting everyone in counter theft. That was just retail.

ETA: I said all that to say, and that doesn't even compare to LE's daily life.

You just have to realize what the relationships are.

God Bless all of our LE; they keep order and serve us well.

Peally
12-17-2014, 02:47 PM
I saw a video on Youtube a little while ago where cops took a lifesaving shot on a dude holding a knife to his girlfriend's throat. What seemed to make her angry was the fact that they killed the guy holding a knife to her throat, threatening to kill her. She just kept telling the cops "you didn't have to kill him!" and it didn't seem to sink in.

Thank God for you guys, seriously. I'd never be able to do a job like that. Save my own life or the life of a family member, sure. But I'd never be able to just roll up on a situation like that, make a tough call and an even tougher shot, and then have people screaming mad at me for saving their life. I'd be ready to retire three weeks into the job.

I think that's relatively common for domestic disputes. Often times the "victim" is willingly in those positions. I agree with not getting into the field, I wisely followed my family's advice and chose a less crappy career ;)

45dotACP
12-17-2014, 04:01 PM
I think that's relatively common for domestic disputes. Often times the "victim" is willingly in those positions. I agree with not getting into the field, I wisely followed my family's advice and chose a less crappy career ;)

Haha, well my career still involves crap, it's just well..actual excrement. I think there's a certain something about finding a calling. Not simply a job, but a thing that you do that defines you. For me, that's being a nurse. It was just one of those things I was drawn to. Not that I wouldn't have tried LE, but I just didn't feel the same draw.

I suspect any career starts to show its ass after a few years on the job, but for some, the calling is still the same. There are moments where you feel like you lose faith, and there are moments where you feel like you'd rather do something else like sit behind a desk, ease the pain in your back and deal with people and their passive aggressive snark rather than deal with people who are actually insane and whose thought processes are truly different. You start to believe that if people had to do your job for one day and it was one of your worst days, or even just one of your "sub average" days then they might truly feel differently about what you do.

But you also get that feeling that you get when you do something right. When there is a genuine "thank you" or when you actually have saved somebody's life, or been part of something extraordinary that just resonates with you. You'd trade all the unrealistically high expectations the public places on you, all the violent people you deal with, all the lip you take from apparently everybody who is an expert on the subject of your job...you'd trade it all for that moment to happen again. That's how you can know for a fact that you've got a calling. I genuinely believe that people do have a calling in LE, or Medicine, or Military. I encourage people with that calling to not give it up and to not lose faith. Yes, there are crappy moments, but you've got your brothers and sisters who can keep you upright, and you've got those moments that will make it all worth it.

And you've always got the best stories to tell ;)

Trooper224
12-17-2014, 06:12 PM
I felt that calling over twenty years ago, now I'm feeling an even stronger calling to get the f*** out.

czech6
12-18-2014, 01:43 PM
I think the future of LE looks pretty grim. Decades of institutional and managerial incompetence is catching up and creating a perfect storm with technology, the media, and the internet. The days of cops being able to work in spite of their management is coming to an end. I don't see a whole sale eviction of yes men and gold old boys from the upper ranks of law enforcement happening any time soon. Leaders and managers that want to take care of their troops often lack the technical competence, workplace organization, social networking and communication skills to do so. Incompetent backstabbing managers and electricity have something in common, they follow the path of least resistance. It's much easier to crucify a cop for doing his job, and placate the fringe elements of society, than it is to explain why their cop did the right thing.

TheNewbie
12-18-2014, 06:11 PM
I have been either a full time cop or reserve cop for 7 years now. It frustrates me, but I feel like it's time to get out. In my short time I have seen so much petty bickering and back stabbing within the rank and file and administration to make anyone sick. Not to mention how much liability one faces for simply trying to do the right thing. Cops have never been perfect, and I don't support a lot of what some LE does, but to risk your freedom and safety when you obey the law and do everything right is just insane.

Now I it's time to finish my degree and figure out a new career. I am thankful for my experience as an officer and for the good job I have. Don't want to sound like a bitter punk.

Gadfly
12-18-2014, 06:25 PM
I can't imagine what else I would do if I was not in LE. The depressing thing about all the cop hate is my daughter graduates her academy on Dec 30... I am going to pin her. I proud of what she has accomplished, and worried about her having to put in 25 years of politics and headaches. She is excited and enthusiastic...like we all were in the beginning.

LSP552
12-18-2014, 07:25 PM
I can't imagine what else I would do if I was not in LE. The depressing thing about all the cop hate is my daughter graduates her academy on Dec 30... I am going to pin her. I proud of what she has accomplished, and worried about her having to put in 25 years of politics and headaches. She is excited and enthusiastic...like we all were in the beginning.

Good on her, and you Dad! Please pass on our congratulations.

rsa-otc
12-18-2014, 08:00 PM
Gadfly I know the feeling. My son has a slot in the next Academy class. This is something he has wanted and worked towards for years. He actually has a good paying job and other opportunities he is passing up to follow this dream. I worry about him all the while encouraging him to follow this dream.

SeriousStudent
12-18-2014, 08:01 PM
I can't imagine what else I would do if I was not in LE. The depressing thing about all the cop hate is my daughter graduates her academy on Dec 30... I am going to pin her. I proud of what she has accomplished, and worried about her having to put in 25 years of politics and headaches. She is excited and enthusiastic...like we all were in the beginning.

Indeed. My very best wishes to her for a safe and successful career. I am sure she will make you and her agency proud.

Eagle1*
02-15-2015, 08:17 AM
working on my 13 years on the job and being an instructor for just about everything that can get us sued over can take a toll on you. One of my fellow officers just told me the other day that uniform patrol is not for him anymore and that was after 10 years. I can see where officers are getting fed up with the society that we live in. I mean come one, how many times do I have to go to a parents house because their 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 (etc.) year old kid will not get out of bed to go to school so they call the police. And, YES I said 5 year old!

It takes a special person to put on this badge and walk the beat of demise and hate all day long, then you will get a call that will make it all worth it however those are getting few and far between anymore. I figured out one day that about 99% of all calls we are on there will be a negative aspect or contact with that call. Think about that for a minute, you get a call for a noise complaint, the guy that complained is happy but the guy making the noise hates you for being there. Somebodies car gets broke into and it is your fault because you were not there when it happened. The fact that they left the doors unlocked has no bearing on the fact that you cannot be everywhere all the time. Same with a burglary, people always have to blame someone else and since you are on the front lines we take the crap they are throwing yet we put that uniform on everyday and come back for more. Amazing I tell you!

As a copper I always give a lot of credit to the families behind the spouse that wears that uniform. They are very special people if they stick around and continue to work at a relationship with a cop that is never home, on call when he is and is always working during every holiday or family function and learns about most family things over the phone since we are gone all of the time. Cudos to my fellow sheepdogs as I walk with you and know what you are going through. Watch your 6 and take care of yourself!

TGS
02-15-2015, 11:33 AM
In the last 5 years, I honestly havent met a veteran local cop who has said anything but, "DO NOT become a cop."

Federal LE, with the exception of CBP, seems to be a very different story. Maybe theyre more institutionally insulated from public fads, or theyre not as "in the dirt" as local LE. I dont know...but whatever the case, everyone I know in federal LE seems to be either content or genuinly satisfied with their life. Again, with the exception of CBP. The guys I know in CBP are so disgruntled that theyre near emotionless.

John Hearne
02-15-2015, 02:17 PM
Federal LE, with the exception of CBP, seems to be a very different story. Maybe theyre more institutionally insulated from public fads, or theyre not as "in the dirt" as local LE. I dont know...but whatever the case, everyone I know in federal LE seems to be either content or genuinly satisfied with their life. Again, with the exception of CBP. The guys I know in CBP are so disgruntled that theyre near emotionless.

It really depends where you are and who you're with. The sequester budget changes hit us pretty hard. Three years ago, we had seven guys and a supervisor to cover 100 miles and we could do a pretty good job. As of 2015, we have authorization for six guys and a supervisor to cover 150 miles and all those jobs aren't current filled.

It depends on whether you're in the "glory" side of Federal LE as an 1811 (criminal investigator) or the uniformed ranks.

Gadfly
02-15-2015, 06:39 PM
Not all 1811 federal agents are happy.

http://bestplacestowork.org/BPTW/rankings/overall/large

I work at Homeland security investigations, and we are yet again the lowest ranked place to work in the fed gov. I am relatively happy. But being a political football to be kicked around sucks.

Typical year at HSI = "Arrest aliens. Wait, don't arrest aliens. So why are your stats down? Arrest more. Wait, you arrested too many, release some... Ok we are de-funding you. You want to run a wire tap? That's too much money, no taps for you. We are out of fuel budget, so park your cars for one day per week to save gas. Why do you buy so many bullets? Are you secretly building FEMA death camps?"

So it is easy to get frustrated, but it beats doing book keeping or sales (my past life).

My daughter is now CBP. One month in, she likes it.

JV_
02-15-2015, 06:44 PM
http://bestplacestowork.org/BPTW/rankings/overall/large


Too bad they only list Executive Branch agencies. OPM (their data source) = Executive Branch

Gadfly
02-15-2015, 06:55 PM
I can't find the complete list. We saw it at work. HSI ranked 237th out of 237 federal agencies...

Dead last. Still better than flipping burgers.