Streamlight TLR-1 or Surefire x300?

[breakingtime91]

So I am kind of following Doc's route and standardizing my guns for the next decade. This came about because my wife and I are talking children and I know that will tighten up my finances. So before that takes place I decided to trade off my MP 9fs and Mp9c and get two glock 19s. I did this for a number of reasons but I kind of got off on a rant...

So with the two new pistols I want to have a wml on one for HD. I am currently looking at either the TLR 1 or x300. Is there a significant difference in which I should consider the x300, which is over double the cost, over the tlr 1?

[NH Shooter]

Both are good, though the SF supposedly has the edge in durability. Whether that will be realized in anything other than heavily used/abused equipment is uncertain.

IMO, the bigger difference between the two is the way the rocker switch is used for momentary activation; the TRL1 requires partial movement of the rocker toward the locked-on position, which I have found easier to activate but is easy to over shoot momentary and lock it on. The SF unit's momentary activation requires pushing forward on the end of the rocker switch, which requires greater force than the TLR but cannot be locked on that way.

For a civilian HD weapon, IMO both are good to go.

[NorthernHeat]

I prefer the attachment method of the X300 to the gun.

I prefer the switches of the TLR.

I have had the backplate ( where the metal clasp attaches to the polymer body on the rear of the light) break on the TLR-1S. I guess the pressure from the metal clasp was too much and caused the polymer to break. I have pics of this.

The light stayed on the gun and functioned but only because the backplate was pushing back against the trigger guard, keeping the batteries in the unit.

I think the X300U is worth the extra $$

[NH Shooter]

NorthernHeat, did that failure happen through normal use?

The attachment system of the X300 is heavy duty, and the beam pattern is excellent as well with good throw and plenty of spill. I haven't had the Streamlight for quite some time and though I had no issues with it, I agree the X300 is overall the better light (as it should be for the price). I currently use my X300 on a 1187 HD shotgun and on my carbine and an APL on my G17, which is smaller and lighter than the X300 but isn't as heavy-duty. The beam pattern of the X300 is also MUCH better than the APL, though for its intended use the APL is fine.

[NorthernHeat]

NorthernHeat, did that failure happen through normal use?

I used the light on duty for about a year.

I got the X300U and wanted to try it on duty, so the TLR-1S got put on the home defense Glock.

The gun/light sat in a Safariland 6280 light bearing holster for about 9 months. About once a week the gun would be unloaded and used for dry fire practice.

About a month ago I took the gun out of the holster and unloaded it and looked and saw the backplate of the TLR to be at an angle that it was not normally at.

I could see the plate was pressing back against the front of the trigger guard.

I took the light off and the back plate fell off and batteries came out.

I did check to see if the light still worked on the gun in the condition it was in before I took it off the gun and it did in fact still work.

So the failure actually happened some time over the months the gun /light was sitting in the holster at the house.

[Hizzie]

I've had a TLR1 for years. Never any issues with it. Is the SF a better light? Yeah it is. I just don't like the SFs switch.

[AndrewS]

I like the interface of the streamlight better, especially trying to activate momentary only mode. I use my left thumb to press down on the switch to give me momentary light, on the TLR. To me it feels better than the surefire's way,on the x300 of activating momentary which is pressing in/forward on the switch on the light.
As far as durability I have had my TLR about two years, but I've only had it on my daily carry gun about six months, so far it has held up to "light"abuse (no pun intended).

[Josh Runkle]

I have both and prefer the surefire's switches, attachment, beam and housing. Also, in my subjective, non-scientific judgement, the beam on the streamlight appears to dim as the battery is getting low, and the Surefire appears to be very bright the whole time and just stops when it is out. I like this about the Surefire, but there's also no warning, you need to change your batteries regularly.

[Drifting Fate]

I have a TLR-1 on a house gun and it's worked fine for years, but it's hardly taxing duty. If I were to carry a light-mounted pistol daily, I'd go with the extra durability of the Surefire.

[breakingtime91]

thanks for all the responses. I think I am personally leaning more towards the surefire as of right now. I am trying to do the buy once cry once thing so I do not have to readdress it anytime soon.

[Elkhitman]

I've never had any experience with an X300 but have had a TLR1 for about 4 years. It's a great light and I like it but no where in the greater Sacramento area fixes them. I was removing my gun from holster (kydex) and the battery cap switch broke. It's made out of plastic and where the clip is to lock the cap on broke. I haven't beat on it in anyway. I took it to Sacramento uniforms, that's who Steamlight said would be able to fix it. Sac uniforms said they couldn't and had to send it back to Streamlight, took me about 3 months to get it back. They did not charge me to fix it.

[Rich]

I never found anyone who had a surefire ULTRA mounted on a HK P30. I don't even no if it would properly mount on a P30? If the ULTRA mounted properly . I would take a surefire ultra over any pistol light.

I first choose the Inforce APL but it had problems staying on my P30S rail. I traded it in for Gen 2 APL and it stays on the rail pretty well . but has slight play even when fully screwed in.(Also has 3rings when shined on the wall so I might send it back again)
Also under hardly any stress I've lock on the APL light when I wanted to flash the area .

Press lite to lock on and Press hard to flash. For me the Streamlight TLR-1 is easier to use.

I choose the TLR-1 300lumen because it has a longer run time 2.5 hours. I hate buying or ordering 123 batteries over the internet.
Plus I carry 2 flashlights A Nitecore SRT5 750 Lumen and a not as bright Surefire P2x Defender Fury 500 Lumen. If I need more lumens. Highly doubt it.

My TLR-1 is almost a year old and has held up fine. I took the Bezel off and wasn't impressed at all with the LED. Streamlight has a warranty and the TLR-1 are cheap and have a pretty good track record so I don't mind using one for EDC.


I would take a surefire over any pistol light if it mounts properly on my P30S.
I like the TLR -1 over the APL gen 1 or Gen 2. But I believe the APL LED would take more punishment and is more water resistant than the TLR-1. I like the TLR lever controls over the APL toggle lite press hard press.( to bad they cant split the toggle switch)


For now I will use the TLR-1/P30S for EDC in Tony's custom version V3 or what I call V3IWB-L.

For back up I will use Gen 2 APL /P30S in another of Tony's V3IWB-L ( still waiting on a reply back about the 3 rings that show up so it might be sent back again I could make do but I'm kind a picky about my EDC Gear.. )
Future a compact surefire pistol light with laser. or a TLR-2G

I beg all members here to send a email to surefire once a month or more and ask for a compact pistol light that 200 lumens or more!

[Rich]

I've never had any experience with an X300 but have had a TLR1 for about 4 years. It's a great light and I like it but no where in the greater Sacramento area fixes them. I was removing my gun from holster (kydex) and the battery cap switch broke. It's made out of plastic and where the clip is to lock the cap on broke. I haven't beat on it in anyway. I took it to Sacramento uniforms, that's who Steamlight said would be able to fix it. Sac uniforms said they couldn't and had to send it back to Streamlight, took me about 3 months to get it back. They did not charge me to fix it.

I wish streamlight would sell extra levers.

My lever rubs my IWB holster also. I might have my 80yr old father Dremmel the lever down some. he is good with his hands.

Really the TLR-1 is cheap what a little over 100 bucks.

[Rich]

NorthernHeat, did that failure happen through normal use?

The attachment system of the X300 is heavy duty, and the beam pattern is excellent as well with good throw and plenty of spill. I haven't had the Streamlight for quite some time and though I had no issues with it, I agree the X300 is overall the better light (as it should be for the price). I currently use my X300 on a 1187 HD shotgun and on my carbine and an APL on my G17, which is smaller and lighter than the X300 but isn't as heavy-duty. The beam pattern of the X300 is also MUCH better than the APL, though for its intended use the APL is fine.

'
I've been having APL problems!

Gen 1 APL not properly mounting on my HK P30S. Has back and forth play and can pop off rail .
Gen 2 APL mounts a lot better on my P30S. But has very slight sided to side play. No where near as rock solid as the TLR-1. But with my garage testing I think it would stay on the rail.

Yesterday I got Tony`s IWB holster for it . Gen 2 APL/P30S. When trying out the new holster and using the APL I notice the wall had 3 rings. So I sent Dot a email asking what's the deal.

I don't recall the Gen 1 having the 3rings. Should be like my TLR-1 or E2D/P2X

I don't mind the lower 200 lumen light for pistols & EDC IWB but that artifact bothers me a little .

Looks like a Hoola Hoop with a doughnut in the middle. Can you check yours? Im almost 100 percent it shouldn't be like that.

[Rich]

I prefer the attachment method of the X300 to the gun.

I prefer the switches of the TLR.

I have had the backplate ( where the metal clasp attaches to the polymer body on the rear of the light) break on the TLR-1S. I guess the pressure from the metal clasp was too much and caused the polymer to break. I have pics of this.

The light stayed on the gun and functioned but only because the backplate was pushing back against the trigger guard, keeping the batteries in the unit.

I think the X300U is worth the extra $$

Why does it seem the TLR-1 S have more problems than the TLR-1.

When I was looking to buy a TLR- I was told by a few not to buy the 1S model ? but I never asked what's the difference beside strobe setting.

[gtmtnbiker98]

We have more than a 'few' TLR-1 WML on the street without issue. They are durable and work well in a duty environment. I've yet to see where a Surefire is better than a StreamLight outside of mere Internet opinion.

Given the cost savings, the StreamLight TLR-1 (S) or (HD) is money well spent and money saved over the SureFire.

[Default.mp3]

I never found anyone who had a surefire ULTRA mounted on a HK P30. I don't even no if it would properly mount on a P30? If the ULTRA mounted properly . I would take a surefire ultra over any pistol light.

It mounts fine. Looks a little weird because of the shorter barrel of the P30, and might take a bit of effort to get it on, due to the locking plate mechanism, but it'll go on.


I beg all members here to send a email to surefire once a month or more and ask for a compact pistol light that 200 lumens or more!

Ah, yes, the X300 Minis. We can only pray they make them one day.

Something to consider between the Streamlights and the Surefires are the tape switches, too, if that's something you're interested in. Once again, the Streamlight "contour remote" is much cheaper, but doesn't have as much of a following as the Surefire DGs.

[rob_s]

I've yet to see where a Surefire is better than a StreamLight outside of mere Internet opinion.

Out of curiosity, what counts s a non-internet opinion for you? one that matches your own?

Most of the benefits of the Surefire come down to personal preference for most of the personally-purchased lights. If you prefer those features over those of the Streamlight, and you have the funds available, then you decide if they are worth the added cost, and purchase accordingly. For me (all internet-y and all) I prefer the mount and the switch of the Surefire, and they are therefore worth the extra paper route I might have to take on to pay for them.

Strangely, I rarely hear the "benefits" of the Streamlight separated from the lower price, which to me is generally a clue.

[RoyGBiv]

For the OP, In case you missed it..
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?14308-Surefire-Strider-Lasergrips-Mitch-Rosen


Surefire X300, 170 lumen, $100

[breakingtime91]

Thanks roy, I was thinkinb the x300u but I imagine 170 lumens is plenty?

[gtmtnbiker98]

Out of curiosity, what counts s a non-internet opinion for you? one that matches your own?

No. For the price difference, SureFire WML's are hard to justify, especially without tangible proof that justifies the cost over the other. Again, my experience with them are from street use. I don't partake in weekend warrior fantasy camps where the gear is a perceived testament of capability.

As for price, yes, we typically must justify the expenditure of tax payer funds. Perhaps you can make us a chart on it so that those of us who are ill-informed and swayed by Internet opinion that may or may not match our own can become blessed by your knowledge.

[LittleLebowski]

Rob and gtmtnbiker, you guys got your shots in and we're done here with the personal stuff.

[DocGKR]

We have generally had better luck with the x300's, but both will work.

I personally purchase X300U's these days and have recently been trying the X400 green laser.

[NorthernHeat]

Why does it seem the TLR-1 S have more problems than the TLR-1.

When I was looking to buy a TLR- I was told by a few not to buy the 1S model ? but I never asked what's the difference beside strobe setting.

I did not know there was a diff except the strobe feature so I'm not sure why people would recommend the regular TLR over the 1S.

I know they have upped the lumens sense the original TLR to the HL and similar models but other than that I am not sure if there are any changes in terms of construction or anything that should change durability.

[NorthernHeat]

One of the main things I like about the Surefire attachment system is once you lock it on its set and you don't have to tension it or adjust it to keep it on.

In regards to the Streamlight, we have had guys that's are afraid of over-tensioning (like with a quarter or flat head) so they just do finger tight tension and this causes the light to come loose or completely pop off during actual firing.

These guys were afraid of over-tensioning because of horror stories they had heard of WML's causing malfunctions in Glocks if on too tight.

[MD7305]

I personally really like the x300u. I find the momentary on switch on the Surefire very convinent and user friendly. With that said, I use TLR1s HLs. At an LE price, I can almost get two TLRs for one x300. That makes a difference to me as I can equip most of my guns with a light. I've owned 5 TLRs over the last 6 years. Some pull light duty in the night stand, others carried on duty and one on a dedicated training gun that gets abused. I've never had to do more than change batteries. I say you can't go wrong with either.

[NH Shooter]

When trying out the new holster and using the APL I notice the wall had 3 rings. So I sent Dot a email asking what's the deal.

I don't recall the Gen 1 having the 3rings. Should be like my TLR-1 or E2D/P2X



Rich, my Gen 1 APL has the three rings. This is why I mentioned in my previous post that the X300 has a MUCH better beam - which it does.

For a utility or primary hand-held light, the beam pattern of the APL would make it a non-starter for me. For a WML, where in time of need you'll never notice the rings when tunnel vision kicks in, I believe it would be a non-issue for me. The APL strengths IMO are its compact size and user interface (I like the paddle switches). I wish it had the beam of the X300 but for 1/3 the price and its form factor, the rings-in-the-beam are something I can deal with.

[NH Shooter]

'
When trying out the new holster and using the APL I notice the wall had 3 rings. So I sent Dot a email asking what's the deal.

I don't recall the Gen 1 having the 3rings. Should be like my TLR-1 or E2D/P2X

I don't mind the lower 200 lumen light for pistols & EDC IWB but that artifact bothers me a little .

Looks like a Hoola Hoop with a doughnut in the middle. Can you check yours? Im almost 100 percent it shouldn't be like that.



Rich, my Gen 1 APL has the three rings. This is why I mentioned in my previous post that the X300 has a MUCH better beam - which it does.

For a utility or primary hand-held light, the beam pattern of the APL would make it a non-starter for me. For a WML, where in time of need you'll never notice the rings when tunnel vision kicks in, I don't see it as an issue as my eyes will be only looking at the front sight with the target illuminated in the beam's center hot spot. The APL strengths IMO are its compact size and user interface (I like the paddle switches). I wish it had the beam of the X300 but for 1/3 the price and its form factor, the rings-in-the-beam are something I can deal with.

[El Cid]

After seeing TLR-1's fall off two different rifles, two different times I have avoided purchasing them. Both were attached to a SF pic rail (maybe that's why they jumped?) on M-4's. After the first time the two LEO's used LOTS of torque to prevent them popping off again. But it didn't do the trick. Anecdotal yes, but I can vouch for both shooters being very squared away with 18 and 23 years on the job.

I've long preferred the X300 initially because of the controls. Pushing forward with either side seems very intuitive to me. With the TLR you have to remember which side does what. My first X300 is the original 150 lumen version and I got it in 08 or 09. Since then it's been on my hip on and off duty every day. It's ridden on a G22, then a G21 as a duty weapon. Every qual or training season, in tac gear or plain clothes, countless matches and high round count classes. Partly to preserve the other X300's I own and partly to see how much abuse it can take I use it even on other Glocks during a match or class (17, 19, 34, 17L). I have no idea how many rounds it's seen but it has to be north of 5 or 6 thousand.

I actually prefer the 170 lumen version as I think it's plenty bright enough indoors. I have an X300 Ultra but it's more suited to a long gun outdoors in my opinion. I also hate how much longer it is than the original 300. It's not backwards compatible with most holsters and it's more difficult to conceal.

I have picked up a 2nd Gen APL recently and am looking forward to trying it out. I've talked to two firearms instructors from the FBI and it seems their agency recently tested all the available pistol lights (don't have a list) on all size and calibers of Glock used by their personnel. One told me the APL was the only light with zero malfunctions. The other said it had one malfunction on a G23 and that the G23 had issues with every light. Either way it's supposed to be approved for duty use any day now.

To give an idea of wear on my X300, here are a few pics.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0201_zps864047b0.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0202_zpsb738d74a.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0203_zps81d362db.jpg

[JodyH]

I think the X300U is the best light but I do not like the "push for momentary" switching.
I've found it to be too sensitive and prone to accidental activation and it does not play well with range bag gun pocket sleeves due again to the easily activated switch.
For me the best of both worlds would be a X300U with the TLR rocker only switching.

My P30L has a X5L green laser and light combo.
My 10" bedroom AR has a TLR-2G green laser and light combo.
My Surefire X300U and Scout are currently sitting in a box somewhere because I'm a green laser convert.

A quick tip for TLR owners, a blob of clear nail polish on the exposed tension screw threads (by the "c" clip) will help keep it from loosening up under recoil.

[Chuck Haggard]

These guys were afraid of over-tensioning because of horror stories they had heard of WML's causing malfunctions in Glocks if on too tight.

The issue has nothing to do with how tight the light is attached and everything to do with the gen 3 Glock 22 being a flawed design.

[NorthernHeat]

The issue has nothing to do with how tight the light is attached and everything to do with the gen 3 Glock 22 being a flawed design.

Agreed, but as you know, everybody has their OWN reasons for why they think their gun is messing up...
For example the theory about the frame flexing because of the tension of the light (and similar theories)

[Wheeler]

I'll apologize in advance for the slight thread drift. Is there any real difference between the TLR1-HL and the TLR1 other than the lamp and output?

[Clusterfrack]

I think the HL has an added strobe feature, and the older TLR1 does not. (Fortunately there's a way to disable the strobe on the HL)

[breakingtime91]

thank you for the interesting read guys. I have decided to save an extra hundred dollars and pick up the x300u. I have to admit its mostly because I will forever doubt my choice if I went with the streamlight.

[NH Shooter]

I think the X300U is the best light but I do not like the "push for momentary" switching.
I've found it to be too sensitive and prone to accidental activation and it does not play well with range bag gun pocket sleeves due again to the easily activated switch.


Jody, have you seen these? - http://www.unitytactical.com/shop/exo-surefire-x-series/

http://jerkingthetrigger.com/2013/09/09/initial-review-unity-tactical-exo/

I'm using one on my X300 and so far, so good.

[MD7305]

TRL-1 is just constant/momentary light.
TLR-1s is the same but with a strobe function.
TLR-1HL includes all the above features, including strobe and has many more lumens.

All 3 are the same size and look relatively the same.

[Wheeler]

I think the HL has an added strobe feature, and the older TLR1 does not. (Fortunately there's a way to disable the strobe on the HL)


TRL-1 is just constant/momentary light.
TLR-1s is the same but with a strobe function.
TLR-1HL includes all the above features, including strobe and has many more lumens.

All 3 are the same size and look relatively the same.

Thanks guys. I picked up two new/used TLR1 HL's recently. One for $100 with all the goodies and one for $90 with nothing but the Glock adapter. I picked up a shotgun magazine tube rail kit for $15 and plan to get a holster made for my P07 that will accommodate the light. I'm still under the cost of a single X300. I'm thinking for my purposes they'll do just fine and I still know how to run a handheld light if need be.

I don't have any dog in this fight other than what will my limited budget provide me with. I was curious about the difference in lights as its something I've just recently started researching.

[Clusterfrack]

I have a SF X400U, and a couple of TLR1's. A TLR-1HL has been on my Mk-18 SBR for a couple of years and has taken a lot of abuse. I am very satisfied with the TLR, and prefer the switch for mounting on an AR. On a handgun I prefer the SF because I can use my left thumb for momentary on. Two other reasons I chose the X400: the laser/light switch on the TLR series looks like a weak link to me, and there have been some complaints about crappy laser focus on the TLR2's.

[Rich]

One of the main things I like about the Surefire attachment system is once you lock it on its set and you don't have to tension it or adjust it to keep it on.

In regards to the Streamlight, we have had guys that's are afraid of over-tensioning (like with a quarter or flat head) so they just do finger tight tension and this causes the light to come loose or completely pop off during actual firing.

These guys were afraid of over-tensioning because of horror stories they had heard of WML's causing malfunctions in Glocks if on too tight.


According to the paper I half ass read from streamlight they blame the glock mags for causing problems.

I just screw it down enough to make it solid. There is no way my TLR-1 will come off. I check the screw often especially after firing. It stayed tight after firing 400 rds .

[Rich]

On a handgun I prefer the SF because I can use my left thumb for momentary on. .


I can do the same with the TLR-1. That his shooting right handed and using my left hand thumb to activate the switch/Lever up or down lock on is up / momentary or what I call flash down.