The Stupid, it Burns!

[GardoneVT]

Hints:
I'm in a square room, I've been swept five times by a fat guy with an XD45, and the old dude up front with the "Carhardt Beige Instructor Shirt" says Isocsoles came before Weaver, and is a weaker methodology of shooting.

Am I:
At a gas station.
At an NRA Basic Pistol Course.
At a Yoga class.

[Lon]

The story can only get better (I mean funnier) as the class goes on. Take notes on idiocy, talk to instructor @ safety violations, be brutally honest on eval and contact the NRA. He gives all of us (I teach BP classes) a bad rap.

[HCM]

Hints:
I'm in a square room, I've been swept five times by a fat guy with an XD45, and the old dude up front with the "Carhardt Beige Instructor Shirt" says Isocsoles came before Weaver, and is a weaker methodology of shooting.

Am I:
At a gas station.
At an NRA Basic Pistol Course.
At a Yoga class.

Um ... I think Iso did come before Weaver but made a come back as the " Modern Isoceles" with some critical improvements.

There's not much new under the sun.

[GardoneVT]

Um ... I think Iso did come before Weaver but made a come back as the " Modern Isoceles" with some critical improvements.

There's not much new under the sun.

The way Mr Cardardt put it, Isosoles came back in the early 00's when the US military sent personnel to Afghanistan and needed ways to run carbines around a vest.

Until that point Weaver was the best, and still is because in a CQB situation you have more control of the recoil and can pivot to engage multiple threats easier .....

I'd continue, but im feeling some intellectual PTSD come on.

[Alpha Sierra]

Why are you there?

[HCM]

The way Mr Cardardt put it, Isosoles came back in the early 00's when the US military sent personnel to Afghanistan and needed ways to run carbines around a vest.

Until that point Weaver was the best, and still is because in a CQB situation you have more control of the recoil and can pivot to engage multiple threats easier .....

I'd continue, but im feeling some intellectual PTSD come on.

I don't doubt you're swimming in Derp, just an observation by a former weaver shooter.

It was fun making Magpul Fan boys cry by showing them pictures of UK SAS and NYPD ESU in the 1980's shooting MP-5s with a C clamp grip .....

[HopetonBrown]

Mistake no. 1. Taking a NRA Basic Pistol Course. But hey, you finally took your first class, though it's kinda like getting your cherry popped by the ugliest girl at closing time.

[Totem Polar]

Why are you there?

I'm curious about this as well.

[Chuck Haggard]

I truly disturbs me how many derp stories come from the NRA basic classes.

I have always been the the LE classes and had never seen the "civilian" classes (yes, I know anyone not .mil is a civilian, but you know what I mean...), so my base of experience was zero.
The bullshit relayed to me in conversation from an NRA instructor class that one of Tom's instructors attended to get her NRA cert was mind boggling.

It should never, ever be that way.

[Joe in PNG]

I'm wondering if any of the following made an apperance:
-Serpas
-Gecko 45 clone
-An Army Recon SEAL who fought the Taliban in Vietnam
-Guy with a really ghetto pistol (Tech 9, mac 11, et al)
-Taurus Judge

[Kyle Reese]

I'm wondering if any of the following made an apperance:
-Serpas
-Gecko 45 clone
-An Army Recon SEAL who fought the Taliban in Vietnam
-Guy with a really ghetto pistol (Tech 9, mac 11, et al)
-Taurus Judge

Probably all of the above. :cool:

I have to just tune out 99% of the casual conversation that one can overhear at a range to tune out Cletus McDerp.

[JodyH]

I would suggest that the NRA interview prospective instructors and audit classes, but many of the NRA Counselors are just as full of derp as the instructors they're certifying.
Then there's some of the derp (especially on video) that comes out of NRA HQ.

[CCT125US]

I also teach NRA basic, and do my best to keep it derp free.

[Wondering Beard]

The bullshit relayed to me in conversation from an NRA instructor class that one of Tom's instructors attended to get her NRA cert was mind boggling.

It should never, ever be that way.

One of the instructors at my NRA instructor class, many years back, said that the "cup and saucer" grip was good to go (he carried an SP101, supposedly loaded with 125 gr 357s).

[gtmtnbiker98]

It is for this very reason that I will not pursue any NRA credentials. I've yet to meet an NRA anything that was worth the price of admission for a class. My only NRA cert will remain Range Safety Officer (only because I had to for my Club). I do not wish to share in the stereotype they so richly enjoy.

My teaching remains LE only, my patience when it comes to Derp is absolutely ZERO. No, not Instructor Zero, either.

[Alpha Sierra]

supposedly loaded with 125 gr 357s
Nothing wrong with those

[LSP972]

Nothing wrong with those

I think his point was, that hero's hands would separate with each pull of the trigger using "cup & saucer".

.

[Jay Cunningham]

You could always try to be part of a solution instead of making fun of the problem. NRA Basic Pistol classes at my Club don't look like "derp" because I (and a few others I train with regularly) volunteer time to them. I also periodically conduct instructor development with the other NRA instructors. If more "switched on" people got involved with NRA training, it would be a good thing.

[GardoneVT]

Stay tuned for Part 2, which will be after tonights 4 hour class. Since range time is involved, there's a nonzero possibility i'll witness an ND tonight.

Bets are open for whether Mr Carhartt or Mr Cletus with his XD45 will take the prize for first negligent discharge ! So stay tuned p-f'ers.......

[TCinVA]

You could always try to be part of a solution instead of making fun of the problem. NRA Basic Pistol classes at my Club don't look like "derp" because I (and a few others I train with regularly) volunteer time to them. I also periodically conduct instructor development with the other NRA instructors. If more "switched on" people got involved with NRA training, it would be a good thing.

Slightly off topic, but are you talking about the courses that lead to getting NRA certified? Because if so you and I might need to chat.

[Jay Cunningham]

Slightly off topic, but are you talking about the courses that lead to getting NRA certified? Because if so you and I might need to chat.

No, I'm not a TC. As long as one can endure the torture of the NRA Instructor class, one basically becomes an instructor. It's a pity, because the standards for shooting and gun handling are low. I work with what we have to get them up to speed... they do a pretty good job.

[Wondering Beard]

I think his point was, that hero's hands would separate with each pull of the trigger using "cup & saucer".

.

Exactly

[HCM]

It is for this very reason that I will not pursue any NRA credentials. I've yet to meet an NRA anything that was worth the price of admission for a class. My only NRA cert will remain Range Safety Officer (only because I had to for my Club). I do not wish to share in the stereotype they so richly enjoy.

My teaching remains LE only, my patience when it comes to Derp is absolutely ZERO. No, not Instructor Zero, either.

Just FYI - the NRA LE division instructor classes aren't bad - they're a whole separate animal.

[MichaelD]

You could always try to be part of a solution instead of making fun of the problem. NRA Basic Pistol classes at my Club don't look like "derp" because I (and a few others I train with regularly) volunteer time to them. I also periodically conduct instructor development with the other NRA instructors. If more "switched on" people got involved with NRA training, it would be a good thing.

I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I've got it in mind to become an NRA instructor.

[Mr Pink]

You could always try to be part of a solution instead of making fun of the problem. NRA Basic Pistol classes at my Club don't look like "derp" because I (and a few others I train with regularly) volunteer time to them. I also periodically conduct instructor development with the other NRA instructors. If more "switched on" people got involved with NRA training, it would be a good thing.Totally agree and I'm trying to find the time to attend an NRA counselor course in the future.

[Suvorov]

You could always try to be part of a solution instead of making fun of the problem. NRA Basic Pistol classes at my Club don't look like "derp" because I (and a few others I train with regularly) volunteer time to them. I also periodically conduct instructor development with the other NRA instructors. If more "switched on" people got involved with NRA training, it would be a good thing.

This is one of my primary desires for wanting my NRA certification and to begin teaching classes. For those of you who might recall my early post on how to go about becoming an instructor a few years ago - it seems that life and kids have prevented me from getting it done - but it remains high on my list. If and when i ever have the time.

While I barely merit being a water boy for the likes of many on this board, I know that I could do a lot better than many of the folks teaching the basic classes today at my range.

Really - unless the good folks start getting into the instructing seen, the NRA courses will continue to be the domain of Fudds and derps.

[Alpha Sierra]

Stay tuned for Part 2, which will be after tonights 4 hour class. Since range time is involved, there's a nonzero possibility i'll witness an ND tonight.

Bets are open for whether Mr Carhartt or Mr Cletus with his XD45 will take the prize for first negligent discharge ! So stay tuned p-f'ers.......
I'm still wondering why you are torturing yourself thus.

[Alpha Sierra]

I think his point was, that hero's hands would separate with each pull of the trigger using "cup & saucer".

.
Oh yeah, that they will do.

[texasaggie2005]

XD45 will take the prize for first negligent discharge

Ironically, my only ND was with a XD45. Wasn't the gun's fault, just mine.

Slightly on topic, my CHL class had it's fair share of Cletii and unsafe gun handling. I even reported my instructor to the State, as I thought some of his "advise" was unlawful.

[Lon]

In Ohio, there's alot of derp associated with NRA BP classes because it has become big business. The BP class was the foundation for the required training to obtain an Ohio CHL. It is not unusual for classes of 50-70 (at $100 per) with one or two instructors. 2 instructors were just sentenced to jail for passing people without having the required 12 hours of training.

One of the places I teach uses the BP program, so I keep my BP credentials. Most of the instructors are also GOOD LE instructors as well, (which most LE instructors I know are more realistically only good for running people through the state qual course). So we don't see the derp other places do.

[GardoneVT]

Well, I survived. So did the side panels.

Wound up playing auxiliary instructor a couple times,but nothing too seriously out of line happened. One shooter , oddly enough, started with a P30S (if only I was that smart!) but judging by his wife's questions about how many years a gun can be stored without being cleaned, I doubt it'll see more then 500 rounds its whole lifetime. Kinda made me sad, actually.

Now I want to "rescue" a P30S and shoot a few thousand rounds just to spare it such an ignominious fate.

Derp samples :
Too much lube will shut down a gun.
Dry firing a rimfire won't hurt it if its semi auto.
Blackhawk's DERPA holster is the bees knees....
Oh, and field stripping an SR22 Ruger was beyond the capability of its elderly owner and that of her son.

[1slow]

I am glad you survived Derpitude/Derpville undamaged!

[Hambo]

Having never taken an NRA course I tried one out earlier this year. The material was very basic, but not all that bad. The instructor...when he stayed with material he was OK, it was his ad libs that were f---ing stupid.

1-In the first two minutes he said he had been at a training school with British SIS (here I thought SIS was part of LAPD), and that they were going to take him on a mission.
2-A J frame is all you need to carry. I have to give him some points because he didn't mention a Judge.
3-Demo of how to disarm someone (definitely not course material), which of course requires the one with a gun to stand like a statue and let it happen.
4-El cheapo expandable baton tactics.
5-Various bad tactical and legal advice about when to shoot and post-shooting.

[Drang]

Having never taken an NRA course I tried one out earlier this year. The material was very basic, but not all that bad. The instructor...when he stayed with material he was OK, it was his ad libs that were f---ing stupid.

1-In the first two minutes he said he had been at a training school with British SIS (here I thought SIS was part of LAPD), and that they were going to take him on a mission.
2-A J frame is all you need to carry. I have to give him some points because he didn't mention a Judge.
3-Demo of how to disarm someone (definitely not course material), which of course requires the one with a gun to stand like a statue and let it happen.
4-El cheapo expandable baton tactics.
5-Various bad tactical and legal advice about when to shoot and post-shooting.
What NRA course was this? I'm certified in Home Firearm Safety, Basic and First Steps Pistol, Personal Protection In The Home, and Refuse To Be A Victim. Batons get a brief mention in RTBAV, with the admonition that if you're going to carry one, you should get training. We don't try and teach that ourselves, not in that class.
Part of PPitH is taught by a lawyer or POST certified LEO -- if possible, both -- specifically to give the students an overview of the law of self-defense in their state without opening the instructors to liability issues.

[NerdAlert]

When I took NRA basic pistol the instructor said that 1911s are double action. :/


Sent from my iPhone, I apologize in advance for typos.

[BaiHu]

You guys all ruined me for NRA classes. When I took BIT, I was labeled an "attitude" problem because I spoke a little too freely.

For example: why does the word "always" need to be in front of a statement with an exception. And because NRA classes are copy and paste from the book, I wrote the "3 rules" (another thing I asked about) from a section in the book where they didn't have "always". When I showed them that it didn't make matters better. Then I got the ultimate back handed compliment: just because you're a great shooter (more proof you guys ruined me) doesn't mean you can be a good teacher.

ETA: anyone who has shot with me on this forum would not use "great shooter", but compared to 99% of NRA classes in my area? I'm a legend [emoji13]

[gtmtnbiker98]

ETA: anyone who has shot with me on this forum would not use "great shooter", but compared to 99% of NRA classes in my area? I'm a legend [emoji13]That was funny right there. I also avoid anything with 'NRA' attached when it comes to continued firearms training. I will admit, I've never taken from the NRA LE side of things. That's why, I imagine, that the secondary firearms training market is thriving. There just isn't anything else out there for those not in LE or .mil.

[BaiHu]

The classes I've taken are good for a new shooter, but I've learned so much beyond NRA stuff by taking classes with TLG & SouthNarc & getting great advice from of all you that it really made me an awful student. I was "that guy".

[Tamara]

And because NRA classes are copy and paste from the book, I wrote the "3 rules" (another thing I asked about)...

They really don't think me and Shootin' Buddy's version of the Three Rules is very funny, as it turns out.

Never, ever load a firearm unless you are about to shoot a deer.
Never climb a fence or gate with a loaded firearm.
Don't spill your gin & tonic on your Perazzi.

[BaiHu]

They really don't think me and Shootin' Buddy's version of the Three Rules is very funny, as it turns out.

Never, ever load a firearm unless you are about to shoot a deer.
Never climb a fence or gate with a loaded firearm.
Don't spill your gin & tonic on your Perazzi.

I can't imagine why. Oh and don't ever call a gun a "weapon".

[gtmtnbiker98]

I can't imagine why. Oh and don't ever call a gun a "weapon".

Oh, that last part I have fun with when talking to some of those derps.

[Tamara]

I can't imagine why. Oh and don't ever call a gun a "weapon".

Shootin' Buddy made the mistake of referring to "weapons" when he volunteered to RO a stage of a SASS match at his local club. All the Buckaroos and Buckarettes got so up in his grille that he thought he was lucky to escape with his life.

"They're not 'weapons', they're firearms!"
"They're replicas of a Colt's Single Action What?"

[BaiHu]

Oh, that last part I have fun with when talking to some of those derps.


Shootin' Buddy made the mistake of referring to "weapons" when he volunteered to RO a stage of a SASS match at his local club. All the Buckaroos and Buckarettes got so up in his grille that he thought he was lucky to escape with his life.

"They're not 'weapons', they're firearms!"
"They're replicas of a Colt's Single Action What?"
It's the whole corporate "on message" thing that gets me at times. The NRA is supposed to be separate from their ILA or whatever their legal arm is, but it seems to control a lot of verbiage and "form" and misses out on a lot of function.

I personally think the basic pistol class is way too long "in the class" especially since the BIT course focuses on the teaching methodology of don't just read it and discuss it but DO it. Get your student's hands on experience. But I guess range time is always liability time.

[Hambo]

Drang, I wanted to see what the lowest level of CWP class was like because my wife has made noises about wanting a CWP. There was no baton instruction in the NRA material. The instructor just threw in a few quick swings from his $10 ASP knockoff saying, "You'll be licensed to carry one of these as well as a gun."

[gtmtnbiker98]

The instructor just threw in a few quick swings from his $10 ASP knockoff saying, "You'll be licensed to carry one of these as well as a gun."Yes, it does burn.

[Hambo]

Yes, it does burn.

Like 10% OC, brother.

[Chuck Haggard]

Shootin' Buddy made the mistake of referring to "weapons" when he volunteered to RO a stage of a SASS match at his local club. All the Buckaroos and Buckarettes got so up in his grille that he thought he was lucky to escape with his life.

"They're not 'weapons', they're firearms!"
"They're replicas of a Colt's Single Action What?"



Ummm, firearms, as in fire arms. As in arms that use fire to function. So....., they are arms?




arms

ärmz/
noun
1.
weapons and ammunition; armaments.
"they were subjugated by force of arms"
synonyms: weapons, weaponry, firearms, guns, ordnance, artillery, armaments, munitions, matériel
"the illegal export of arms"

And the ATF says;

The term “firearm” is defined in the Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(3), to include (A) any weapon (including a starter gun), which will, or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon…. Based on Section 921(a)

Tam, I know that you know, I'm just sayin, ya know?

[Peally]

And if ISIS attacks the SASS match all of a sudden they mighty morph into weapons ;)

People are silly, of course they're weapons. Like poking a straw dummy with a longsword we're just using them in a non-life-or-death situation.

[gtmtnbiker98]

And if ISIS attacks the SASS match all of a sudden they mighty morph into weapons ;)

People are silly, of course they're weapons. Like poking a straw dummy with a longsword we're just using them in a non-life-or-death situation.
I couldn't imagine them getting that bored to mess with SASS.

[45dotACP]

Like 10% OC, brother.

Which you would also be authorized to carry! Better go buy a can of that pink stuff from the gas station...

[Lomshek]

It is for this very reason that I will not pursue any NRA credentials. I've yet to meet an NRA anything that was worth the price of admission for a class. My only NRA cert will remain Range Safety Officer (only because I had to for my Club). I do not wish to share in the stereotype they so richly enjoy.




You could always try to be part of a solution instead of making fun of the problem. NRA Basic Pistol classes at my Club don't look like "derp" because I (and a few others I train with regularly) volunteer time to them. I also periodically conduct instructor development with the other NRA instructors. If more "switched on" people got involved with NRA training, it would be a good thing.

Jay is 100% right. If "we" don't step up the derpers will set the agenda.

A few years ago I hosted an NRA instructor cert class and got 6 or so USPSA shooters who were pretty capable to take it along with whoever else we could get. My motivation was to be able to run Boy Scout & 4H training as a volunteer which requires NRA certs (I have no time or desire to hang a shingle out). I'd rather the kids be trained by a capable shooter than the typical Patchasaurus wearing an IDPA vest with so many patches that it looks like DragonSkin armor.

We were lucky enough that our instructor was an awesome guy who was a pro that really knew his stuff and had zero derp. He made the classes worthwhile and as interesting as they could be. Yes some of the NRA material and required verbiage was less than ideal but such is life; take what you will and leave the garbage behind. If Cletus can ad lib stories about helping British SIS then I can clean up the material I'm teaching.