My 5.45x39 AR dilemma

[LittleLebowski]

I'm waiting to hear back from S&W on whether or not they're going to replace my 5.45 AR's (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2013/01/my-definitive-545x39mm-ar15-article.html) shot out barrel (again). Based on word from someone else on another forum, they might offer to refund me the purchase price per my receipt for the weapon. I would like to add that 5.45 ammo isn't really selling now because no one wants to be invested in the caliber. They might replace the barrel which is fine, I will just continue to shoot up my surplus. Otherwise, I can:


replace the 5.45 barrel myself with a Ballistic Advantage barrel
sell off the 5.45 ammo and mags, invest more in 5.56 (I do have 5.56 guns, ammo, and mags, plenty), rebarrel the gun with a 5.56 barrel myself
take the money, invest in a nice suppressor (I want a Saker 7.62 with 5.56 endcap)
take the money, buy an Arsenal 104
I'm not set up for the Sean M option (http://i.imgur.com/G5HRnbJ.jpg) but do plan for it in the future, just not now

[JM Campbell]

Sean Option!!

http://www.bullseyeindoorrange.com/AAC-BLACKOUT-SPECIAL-9-300BLK-Barrel-51T-Flash-Hider_p_259.html

And a Saker. Sell the flash hider that you won't need, and buy a stripped lower to build it into a pistol if you don't have a sbr lower to put it on.

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[LittleLebowski]

One thing I failed to mention in my OP is that 5.45 ammo isn't really selling now because no one wants to be invested in the caliber. I'll add this point to the OP.

[JM Campbell]

Well in a perfect world SW will replace the barrel, you'll be so happy that they did and say "hey Christmas is right around the corner and I've been a good little chap and should get me some 300black".

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[LittleLebowski]

Well in a perfect world SW will replace the barrel, you'll be so happy that they did and say "hey Christmas is right around the corner and I've been a good little chap and should get me some 300black".


Well, they've replaced it once already and I know...."internet hearsay" and all but I did speak with a guy on another forum that burned out his 5.45 barrel and they told him that they are no longer replacing the 5.45 AR barrels and refunded his purchase price as per his receipt.

[Chuck Haggard]

How much money do you save by shooting copious amounts of 5.45 vs buying new barrels now and then? That's a question you need to answer for yourself.

[LittleLebowski]

How much money do you save by shooting copious amounts of 5.45 vs buying new barrels now and then? That's a question you need to answer for yourself.

OK, please check my math and reasoning.

New barrel would be $200 (https://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?product_cat=5-45x39). I have 10,000 rounds and some change of 5.45x39mm. Equivalent (not really as accurate but cheap and good enough) bulk .223/5.56 would be say, $325-ish for 1k rounds (AE or Wolf brass). The 5.45 super ammo is going for $200 per 1080 rounds right now, I obviously got it for less. So 10 cases of .223/5.56 would be $3200. I already do have a spare 5.56 barrel that I got for a screaming deal.

[BWT]

How much money do you save by shooting copious amounts of 5.45 vs buying new barrels now and then? That's a question you need to answer for yourself.

This and how much 5.45 surplus do you have left?

I'm with you on the fork in the road. Either shoot up all the rest of your surplus and put a 5.56 barrel in the S&W at some point or take the refund and that's the transfer tax to buy your saker. Sell the remaining surplus and buy the saker and 5.56.

The saker in 762 with 5.56 end cap is quieter than a 5.56 saker and you could also use it on 300 BLK.

ETA: You replied before I did.

You could buy an SBR and can for that... Or you could just get another barrel.

LL, IMHO; I'm not the biggest fan in the world of Suppressors. While they are nifty; the amount of blow back you get (although the increased volume of the 762 Saker may help with this) and super sonic crack has left me underwhelmed.

It might be best to find someone with one locally.

I think the 762 Saker is probably the best blend of size, weight, suppression, function, price, etc. currently available. The Surefires are nice but approach double the price, IIRC and probably aren't as quiet on 5.56.

[LittleLebowski]

For what it's worth, I don't mind selling my 5.45 at a loss, say $180-ish a spam can of 1080. The problem is finding buyers.

[LittleLebowski]

The refund would be about $900 flat.

[JM Campbell]

Fire sale baby. We all loose something at a time.

Real question is how many more barrels are you going to have to buy to use up the ammo. Is this just a SW barrel issue or does the ammo tear up barrels that fast?

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[BWT]

For what it's worth, I don't mind selling my 5.45 at a loss, say $180-ish a spam can of 1080. The problem is finding buyers.

I don't think you'll struggle to find buyers. You may only sell by the spam can. But it wouldn't take long.

Breaks my heart the situation with 7N6.

[LittleLebowski]

Fire sale baby. We all loose something at a time.

Real question is how many more barrels are you going to have to buy to use up the ammo. Is this just a SW barrel issue or does the ammo tear up barrels that fast?


S&W barrels are lasting about 12-14K rounds. The Ballistic Advantage barrel should last longer being that it's Melonited, not chrome lined.

[LittleLebowski]

I don't think you'll struggle to find buyers. You may only sell by the spam can. But it wouldn't take long.

Breaks my heart the situation with 7N6.

There's a lot of people trying to sell for $200 a can and it's not really moving.

[Malamute]

Shooting it up sounds like the most cost effective way to get rid of it.

If Smith cant replace the 5.45 barrel, I wonder if theyd send a 5.56 one? You could buy a 5.45 barrel elsewhere to use up the ammo, and either sell, use up or trade the 5.56 Smith barrel later or on another upper.

Buying a 5.45 barrel, shooting up 10K rounds and throwing the barrel away, youd be money ahead.

[Chuck Haggard]

Now I am wishing I had kept my two SARs that were 5.45, and invested in ammo. Add a 5.45 upper and I'd have been set.

What mags are you running on the 5.45 AR?

[LittleLebowski]

Now I am wishing I had kept my two SARs that were 5.45, and invested in ammo. Add a 5.45 upper and I'd have been set.

What mags are you running on the 5.45 AR?

ASCs and carefully screened C-Products.

[ranger]

Aim Surplus has their 5.45 AR stuff on a "special" page I assume to clear out - they have some 5.45 barrels. I have one S&W 5.45 AR and one Spikes midlength melonited 5.45 AR. I bought a bunch of surplus 5.45 ammo when it was cheap. I have two "extra" 5.56 barrels put away and when the 5.45 is gone I will swap out the barrels.

I suspect that the surplus 5.45 ammo is rough on barrels so I would think 12-14k rounds is pretty good for barrel life.

[Pennzoil]

For what it's worth my ballistic advantage 5.45 14.5" LW barrel has been excellent despite me building the upper (first time) and pinning the muzzle device. Accuracy and reliability has been on par with my DD & Colt 5.56 assemblied LW uppers. I only have 2k through the upper so I can't speak too if the barrel will outlast 12k.

[abu fitna]

The one question this does bring up is whether or not the 5.45 has been as hard on the -74 barrels as it has been on the AR mods. I don't seem to recall this being the case, but then again, I suspect folks are running their conversion ARs harder than almost any AK out there in terms of sheer round count.

I wish I had stocked deep back when. I wish even more there was recourse against arbitrary regulatory action in direct contradiction to legislative intent. But glad you seem to have at least gotten your money's worth here. I'd say even if they dont take care of you, press a new tube and run down that stockpile - a beater rifle for training hard may just encourage more training, especially when its all a sunk cost already. (Not that you seem to need much more encouragement...)

[Doug]

S&W barrels are lasting about 12-14K rounds. The Ballistic Advantage barrel should last longer being that it's Melonited, not chrome lined.

Does anyone here know how long the AK74 barrels last? I would assume the same since if both the AK and AR barrels are both just chrome lined.

[LittleLebowski]

Does anyone here know how long the AK74 barrels last? I would assume the same since if both the AK and AR barrels are both just chrome lined.

I agree with you and Abu Fitna that this is an important datum. Hopefully someone with this knowledge will chime in.

[Doug]

Since the main website is down, not sure if this is legit Bulgaria Factory info but they seem to have way too much info including data on their 40 mm rounds so take it for what it is worth. If correct it is only what the factory claims.

System Life? Arsenal Bulgaria

AK74 - 10,000 RDS - it looks to be full auto version

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/5,45ar-m1.htm

RPK - 20,000 RDS

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/5,45ar-m1.htm

The ammo

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/5,45x39,5.htm

Yet the 7.62 AK47 - 15,000 RDS

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/7.62_arsenal_assault_rifle_ar-m11f.htm

And so is the 5.56 AK

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/5,56_arsenal_assault_rifle_ar-m14f.htm

Here is the whole index with every possible model, config.....

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/

I am sure the AK purists will debate above factory system claims but it would be interesting to know those that have shot out their AK74 to the point it starts keyholing or suffer accuracy losses.

PS guess the 74s come packed 12 to a case ;) looks like factory info.

PS2 Barrel life 7.62

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/7.62sar-m14f.htm

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/5.56_7-62slr.htm

[Doug]

This is a great PDF. Gives factory info, even on mag drop testing. Says 15,000 then states elsewhere up to 25,000 RDS

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/advantages/ARSENAL_Assault%20rifles%20Advantages.pdf

"Main advantages of ARSENAL Assault Rifles:
- The weapon is characterized by milled receiver, made according to the method of mechanical treatment (milling) of hot die forging. This ensures higher strength during service life (guaranteed 15000 rounds) and bigger resistance upon the drop tests, it also contributes to the high accuracy and concentration of the hits at fire.
- The barrels are made by the method of radial cold die forging, forming the inner surface of the barrel bore and of the chamber, with subsequent chromium plating. The barrel production processing provides high wear resistance at the time of firing, as well as excellent accuracy and concentration of fire."

[ranger]

This is am interesting test of metal cased vs brass cased 223 ammo which also discusses the impact of the bimetal projectile on barrel life. They are showing barrels at 6000 rds of bimetal bullets having keyholing.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

[LittleLebowski]

This is am interesting test of metal cased vs brass cased 223 ammo which also discusses the impact of the bimetal projectile on barrel life. They are showing barrels at 6000 rds of bimetal bullets having keyholing.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

In my opinion, the best piece of firearms testing written so far.

[MichaelD]

In my opinion, the best piece of firearms testing written so far.

When I read that, I thought you were being facetious, but after reading over the test, I agree. Definitely not derp, which is refreshing.