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View Full Version : Norway's Supermax prison



Kyle Reese
07-27-2011, 03:13 PM
HERE (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/07/25/the_super_lux_super_max?page=0,0) This is where the murderer of 90+ innocent people will go. Best part is, under current Norwegian law, he'll probably be out in 21 years, max.

It is interesting to note that Norway has a much smaller recidivism rate than the UK, US and other Western nations.

jetfire
07-27-2011, 03:54 PM
Mental note: move to Norway, commit crimes.

DonovanM
07-27-2011, 04:29 PM
Like a college dorm? I didn't get a free flatscreen or a complimentary personal trainer at my college dorm :rolleyes:

JDM
07-27-2011, 05:13 PM
Like a college dorm? I didn't get a free flatscreen or a complimentary personal trainer at my college dorm :rolleyes:

You were sleeping with the wrong girls...

Korenwolf
07-28-2011, 06:06 PM
Hahahaha you all thought that this was the coziest prison.....in Norway. You poor souls, it gets even worse!!!!

Behold:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1384308/Norways-controversial-cushy-prison-experiment--catch-UK.html

and of course the movie about it:

http://www.bastoythemovie.com/

the trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6V_QiOa2Jo

Kidding aside they do boast a very low recidivism rate in Norway.
Maybe me praying for an Arpaio style tent camp in the Netherlands was wrong:cool:

jslaker
07-28-2011, 06:46 PM
It is interesting to note that Norway has a much smaller recidivism rate than the UK, US and other Western nations.

Can't speak for other nations, but we're not helping ourselves in the US with our massive non-violent prison populations that are essentially Criminality University for the inmates.

JDM
07-28-2011, 11:15 PM
Can't speak for other nations, but we're not helping ourselves in the US with our massive non-violent prison populations that are essentially Criminality University for the inmates.

Exactly.

It's not like this place in Norway is a damn resort. I'm guessing the article has a bias, like all other mainstream "news" and the way the information is presented is supposed to piss us off.


Lets Think about this rationally. what would be more likely to rehabilitate you? After all, that is the point of incarceration right?
Being butt raped, forced to join a gang, and being locked up for many many years, in what amounts to graduate school for violent felons;

-or-

Being locked away from your family, friends, and life in a remote facility. Then provided (forced to take?) many opportunities to better yourself, and grow away from the criminal behavior that got you in trouble in the first place.


At the end of the day, more comfy or not, Norway is leaps and bounds ahead of us.

TGS
07-29-2011, 07:17 AM
At the end of the day, more comfy or not, Norway is leaps and bounds ahead of us.

+1. Some people just don't want to admit that years of failure in our penal system is a reality. I can understand the vengeance side and wanting someone to suffer, but we need to set a goal with our penal system and try to accomplish it. Our current system accomplishes neither punishment or rehabilitation.

JeffJ
07-29-2011, 02:01 PM
What's funny is that prison, especially long-terms, is a pretty recent development in human history. Punishment was once more swiftly adminsitered, whether that be some sort of lashing or caning, or a day in the stocks, or of course, execution. The idea of housing, clothing, and feeding criminals would have been looked at as pure insanity in the not too distant past, but now we try to provide rehabilitation as if it's the government's job to teach people how to act in society.

TCinVA
07-29-2011, 02:45 PM
Lets Think about this rationally. what would be more likely to rehabilitate you? After all, that is the point of incarceration right?


Not for the worst offenders...the type who murder almost a hundred people because of some nonsensical political grievance. While I'm not an expert in human behavior or psychology, I do know that there is such a thing as a lifestyle predator who because of his own will is incapable of being rehabilitated save perhaps by a bullet.

A large chunk of the violent crimes perpetrated in our country are perpetrated by people who already have a history of violent crime. Surprise, surprise. They've also typically made multiple trips through the criminal justice system including various programs aimed at rehabilitation. To that sort of individual a flat screen is an opportunity to make an improvised weapon, and a cute "personal trainer" is a guaranteed rape or dead body.

It's sometimes easy to correlate good results with good methods when in reality it can be luck. Prior to this awful event I'm sure most people thought the response capabilities of the police responsible for counter-terrorism and events like an active shooter were sufficient because it had always worked for other incidents. Success indicates great methods, right? One reasonably intelligent murderer was all it took to expose major flaws nobody had planned for. One. Before that day they were lucky. Luck ran out. Relatively placid, culturally homogeneous societies/communities are often used to a sort of gentleman's agreement that doesn't prove very durable against the truly predatory human being.

I view incarceration primarily as a means of keeping the worst products of society in a cage so they can't hurt people. I have absolutely no notion that it's possible to rehabilitate someone capable of this sort of crime.

If we took 150 guys out of SHU in Pelican Bay I sincerely doubt they'd be rehabilitated members of society after a few years in a Norwegian prison.

Korenwolf
07-30-2011, 08:12 AM
One reasonably intelligent murderer was all it took to expose major flaws nobody had planned for.

I view incarceration primarily as a means of keeping the worst products of society in a cage so they can't hurt people. I have absolutely no notion that it's possible to rehabilitate someone capable of this sort of crime. If we took 150 guys out of SHU in Pelican Bay I sincerely doubt they'd be rehabilitated members of society after a few years in a Norwegian prison.

It is true that countries such as Norway, and my country the Netherlands, are not as well prepared for tragedies as the one Norway has had to endure. Active shooter response is not something that is in the public's eye at all. A nice example was during my undergrad exchange to the U.S., active shooter response trainings were offered to all. Every classroom had a booklet on what to do. When I spoke about that at my home university with a professor, he laughed. We did not even have a security guard (department with 3000 students). It is as much a lack of history with these events, as it is cultural ("Gentleman Agreement"). Also keep in mind that Norwegian police are not armed. We simply do not have the collective memory of Columbine or Virginia Tech over here.

I agree that hardened criminals in the U.S. prison system have been scarred for life, not only by their own actions, but also very much by the penal system. We need to recognize that after prison in the U.S. these people have no future. In Norway they make sure you have a future. I do agree however that the truly crazy such as Breivik are better kept away from society for ever.


At the end of the day, more comfy or not, Norway is leaps and bounds ahead of us.

They are ahead. But that is way easier if you are a small (population wise), very rich country. I learned that comparing the U.S. as a whole to small rich European countries is futile. The U.S. has poverty, and heterogeneity that is incomparable with these countries. In North Western Europe it is way easier for the government to help individuals, because there is less unemployment and less poverty, to start with. If only a few people are truly in need of extensive help, this is way easier if it needs to be done on such a small scale. A prison population of only say 3000 on a population of 4.9 million (Norway) is easier to rehabilitate.


Can't speak for other nations, but we're not helping ourselves in the US with our massive non-violent prison populations that are essentially Criminality University for the inmates.

Agree 100%. The things you can find yourself on the wrong side of the law on in the U.S. is frightening.

http://www.economist.com/node/16636027

Do not get me wrong I love the U.S., have many friends there and would love to move there one day, if only for five guys burgers. :D

I would like to add that I am still in favor of an Arizona style tent city as a deterrent for first time offenders who commit relatively minor crimes.

Robert Mitchum
08-08-2011, 02:47 AM
..I retired 4 years ago from Corrections (25 years )working in a crazy city jail on up to a level 5 superMax.
You have no guns unless you are posted in certain areas and are out out numbered all the time.
Being locked up SUCKS working there or doing time for a crime ..it's a not so nice place filled with every kind of nut case walking the planet locked up in the same place.
I am just now feeling half normal and enjoying life and happy to not have to work in Corrections anymore.
Prison any where is nothing a normal person wants to deal with ..

MechEng
08-10-2011, 08:04 AM
Throw some of these guys (http://pibillwarner.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/sur-13.jpg)into Norway’s little prisoner rehabilitation experiments and see how it goes.

John Ralston
08-10-2011, 04:12 PM
Throw some of these guys (http://pibillwarner.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/sur-13.jpg)into Norway’s little prisoner rehabilitation experiments and see how it goes.

Yeah...our society is breeding criminals, who know nothing outside of the criminal lifestyle. Millions of criminals across the country, praying on the young, old and weak. I don't think the Norway system has a chance of working here (of course many of the white collar criminals get the Country Club treatement).

DannyZRC
08-10-2011, 04:32 PM
I think our prison system serves to increase our crime problem, and our criminal population.

most of your life is habits, and in our prison system you are habituated to violence, race association, and deprivation. Prison life is characterized by deprivation which is only alleviated by the in-prison criminal systems of smuggling, trading in drugs and cell phones, and bribing guards with outside money for special treatment.

Making prison into forced practice for decent adult life is, frankly, a lot better an idea.

It's cliche, but punishment is just revenge. Revenge never solved anything, no matter how deserved.