Advice on the .38 Super

[SteveK]

I am going to purchase a Colt Commander for my "getting old" gun. Early-onset arthritis in my hands has me seriously considering .38 Super over the venerable old .45 ACP. Looking for some advice and experience has to what are the common experience with magazines and other aftermarket parts in this caliber.

[1986s4]

I like mine a lot. Full size blue Colt .38 super auto. I reload and find the caliber easy to load, mild to wild, the standard recoil spring seems to function fine. So far this pistol as been 100% reliable. Recoil is mild too. My only mods: new grips [Magpull], 10-8 rear sight.
I got it because I always wanted one and I finally could get one. Other than that no reason but after shooting it I think it stands on its own as valid service pistol in a retro sense. I find it easier to shoot well than any pistol I have which is a good quality.

[1986s4]

Sorry, you asked about magazines. The factory supplied mags [9 round] work fine, as do two Checkmate 10 rounders [that I can only get 9 into] and a single Wilson Combat also runs fine. Have yet to try Tripp 10 round.

[JHC]

Cool thread. My dad had a Super Commander when I was a kid. I think he flipped it for the 6 1/2 " Model 29 that showed up. But I've long wanted one too although I'm not set up for reloading and that's what has dissuaded me so far. I've got thousands of cases for .38 spec, .357, .41, .44 and .45acp but no Super.

Watching with great interest.

[Jason Burton]

When I build a .38 Super, which admittedly isn't that often, I test and deliver it with the Wilson Combat 47SX magazine (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/1911-Magazine-38-Super-Full-Size-9-Round-Standard-Base-Pad/productinfo/47SX/)... I don't really mess with any others in that caliber.

Since your intent seems to be a medium bore Commander why not a 9mm?

[SteveK]

To tell you the truth...nostalgia. I have a 9mm in a full size SA with has run perfectly for years upon years. I like the fact that the super has some old time/western flavor to its history and can offer a tad more power than the 9. Years ago I shot a Kimber Pro HD in .38 Super Comp for several years in IDPA and really liked the combination. Frankly, this is the gun I want to fade into the sunset with so the traditional caliber really appeals to me. It will also get real ivory and live in a nice Askins Avenger-type rig made out of cape buffalo. I tried Wilsons in the Kimber but eventually settled on CMCs because I was crushing followers at an alarming rate. I'm pretty sure that was a slide stop issue but since this gun will be a Colt, I'm going set it up to use WC magazines. This is going to be an heirloom gun (no pun intended) so I want it to be special. Like a stated, I'm not dead set on the super, but am strongly considering it given that my hands are becoming arthritic at the young age of 50.

[Robinson]

I've had real good luck with Metalform magazines in my Colt .38 Super. The factory mags work fine with all the ammo I've tried except Aguila.

My Colt is a Series 80 Government model. It has an adjustable rear sight installed by AmerigunUSA -- they do great work -- and a Novak gold bead front. It is currently away at a local trusted gunsmith to have a S&A grip safety and Cerakote finished applied. The gun is a pleasure to shoot and I would not hesitate to carry it. Ammo is available but costs about the same as .45 ACP (or a little more).

[farscott]

If it is a newer Colt, the stock barrel will be fine as it will headspace properly. The older Colt barrels headspaced off of the semi-rim, and accuracy was so-so. If you reload, I would suggest a 9x23 Winchester chambering instead of .38 Super due to the rimless case of the former. The semi-rimmed Super case can cause feeding issues. The original Colt magazines and Wilson magazines are the best although the latter's springs are too weak for my liking. The Metalform magazines are also very good.

Full-power .38 Super loads feel like 185-grain .45 ACP to me, so you may want to consider having a 9x19 barrel fit to the pistol. 9x19 is a lot easier to find, there are more bullet weight and type choices, and it is the original Commander caliber.

[SteveK]

I would strongly consider the 9x23 if only it had better commercial ammo support. I my opinion this may be the best defense cartridge available. We did some ballistic work with it back in the day and were getting 1400fps+ (if I recall correctly) out of a commander length barrel with the 125g silvertip loading. That's serious heat.

[BLR]

When I build a .38 Super, which admittedly isn't that often, I test and deliver it with the Wilson Combat 47SX magazine (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/1911-Magazine-38-Super-Full-Size-9-Round-Standard-Base-Pad/productinfo/47SX/)... I don't really mess with any others in that caliber.

Since your intent seems to be a medium bore Commander why not a 9mm?


I like metalform.....you godless heathen.

[JHC]

When I build a .38 Super, which admittedly isn't that often, I test and deliver it with the Wilson Combat 47SX magazine (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/1911-Magazine-38-Super-Full-Size-9-Round-Standard-Base-Pad/productinfo/47SX/)... I don't really mess with any others in that caliber.

Since your intent seems to be a medium bore Commander why not a 9mm?

In fact Colt is re-intro'ing a LW Commander in 9mm coming up soon.

[JTQ]

I would strongly consider the 9x23 if only it had better commercial ammo support. I my opinion this may be the best defense cartridge available. We did some ballistic work with it back in the day and were getting 1400fps+ (if I recall correctly) out of a commander length barrel with the 125g silvertip loading. That's serious heat.
Aren't both pretty close as far as availability for commercial ammo? I believe there are bunches more guns in .38 Super, but ammo is similarly limited.

[farscott]

I would strongly consider the 9x23 if only it had better commercial ammo support. I my opinion this may be the best defense cartridge available. We did some ballistic work with it back in the day and were getting 1400fps+ (if I recall correctly) out of a commander length barrel with the 125g silvertip loading. That's serious heat.

If your hands are bothering you, Winchester 9x23 factory ammo is not a good choice as there is a fair amount of muzzle flip and recoil. The factory 124-grain and 125-grain loads do better than 1450 fps out of my five-inch Series '80 Colt.

[Jason Burton]

If your hands are bothering you, Winchester 9x23 factory ammo is not a good choice as there is a fair amount of muzzle flip and recoil. The factory 124-grain and 125-grain loads do better than 1450 fps out of my five-inch Series '80 Colt.

I agree... I've built 9x23s in both Government and Commander sized 1911s and if you want something with less recoil than a 45ACP it's not a 9x23 Commander.

[JAD]

I have a Colt's XSE (yuck) LWC that Wilson worked on that I carry a lot. Wilson supplies me with both mags and defensive ammo -- their Barnes loading is very good. These days, though, I'd do a 9x19, because of the greater availability of defensive ammo and the disposability of the brass. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/11/23cffc7509d3f02d14155e5d66f2c672.jpg

[ranger]

I carried a Colt Commander 38 Super for years. I sold that pistol several years ago. What was I thinking.................

[1986s4]

I would like to have a 9mm barrel for the super but then it would be just like any of my 9mm pistols and then there's the cost of the barrel + fitting. For now I've decided to spend the money I would need for the barrel on .38 super auto brass. My Colt seems to like .38SC too. Some say the .38 super enjoys a reliability edge in the government model over that of the 9mm version. All I know is that my super has been reliable in the short time I've had it. When charging it feeds very smoothly, no hitches or bumps, almost like working the slide without ammo.

[Little Creek]

I shot a couple of Wilson Combat Accu-comp LE pistols in 38 Super when that was the hot set up for IPSC/USPSA in the 1980's, before they had divisions. At that time, the Colt headspaced on the rim which was not good for accuracy with a semi rimmed cartridge. I suggest getting a 9mm and adding a custom 38 Super barrel that headspaces off the rim. After all 9mm ammo is cheaper. Also, just after Wilson Combat introduced the 38 Super Pistols, they started offering barrels with feed ramps and fully supported cases. These barrels required the frame to be milled. The benefit is the shell cases did not blow up with major power factor loads. When a shell case ruptures, it blows the magazine guts out the bottom and breaks the grips, if wooden. Can also mean "Super hands" and "Super face". Moral of the story, don't handload super hot loads in the 38 super unless you have a barrel with a supported chamber. Good luck!

[farscott]

I shot a couple of Wilson Combat Accu-comp LE pistols in 38 Super when that was the hot set up for IPSC/USPSA in the 1980's, before they had divisions. At that time, the Colt headspaced on the rim which was not good for accuracy with a semi rimmed cartridge. I suggest getting a 9mm and adding a custom 38 Super barrel that headspaces off the rim. After all 9mm ammo is cheaper. Also, just after Wilson Combat introduced the 38 Super Pistols, they started offering barrels with feed ramps and fully supported cases. These barrels required the frame to be milled. The benefit is the shell cases did not blow up with major power factor loads. When a shell case ruptures, it blows the magazine guts out the bottom and breaks the grips, if wooden. Can also mean "Super hands" and "Super face". Moral of the story, don't handload super hot loads in the 38 super unless you have a barrel with a supported chamber. Good luck!

I believe you mean for the custom .38 Super barrel to headspace off the case mouth, not the rim.

[MK11]

To tell you the truth...nostalgia.

Agree 100%. If we universally pooh-pooh the .357 Sig for being no better than a hot 9mm, where's that leave .38 Super? There's enough 9mm Commander-size guns now that fit the bill.

[Jeep]

Agree 100%. If we universally pooh-pooh the .357 Sig for being no better than a hot 9mm, where's that leave .38 Super? There's enough 9mm Commander-size guns now that fit the bill.

Absolutely correct--except for the nostalgia point. I doubt anyone feels nostalgic for the .357 Sig, and maybe it's just me, but the idea of a nicely blued, Colt "Super .38" with the correct pre-war roll marks makes me want to droll. And if anyone would like to post additional pictures of .38 Super pistols, I, for one, would love to see them here. Is it rational? Not in the least. Is it nevertheless real? Yep.

[theJanitor]

I've got custom 1911's in 45 and 10mm. But I desperately want a Colt 38Super with the old rollmarks. The fact that we want a 1911 built defies sensibilities, so get it in the caliber your heart desires. A quality smith will make it run.

Most of my friends with built 38Supers run WC magazines

[DocGKR]

What modern duty /defensive loads are readily available in .38 super or 9x23 mm?

Virtually no good ones, because almost all the research and production goes into the common service calibers like 9 mm, .40, .45.

If your hands are bothering you, then choosing a steel frame 9 mm 1911 would probably be more prudent; even better would be a soft shooting polymer double stack like a M&P9 or a G17...

[Jeep]

I had understood that both 124 grain and 125 grain Gold Dot bullets could be effectively loaded in Gold Dot cases, but perhaps not?

[Patrick Taylor]

Corbon loads for the Super 38 and I think the 9x23 also.

[farscott]

I had understood that both 124 grain and 125 grain Gold Dot bullets could be effectively loaded in Gold Dot cases, but perhaps not?

I have loaded the 124-grain Gold Dot bullet in Winchester 9x23 brass, but I am not aware of any 9x23 factory loads with that bullet. The Winchester Silvertip factory load does pretty well, based on my limited experience with it on deer.

In my mind, the biggest advantages of 9x23 are feed reliability, the strength of the brass (55k psi in a normal 1911 barrel), and the ability to load the round up or down. The longer round feeds much better in the 1911 than the 9x19 and allows one to have ten rounds of .357 Magnum equivalent on tap in a much flatter and easier to shoot package. Of course that same extra length does not allow the round to be chambered in the Glock and S&W 9mm polymer guns as the round is too long for the magazines. The inability to use the round in common service pistols is one of the reasons it has been relegated to niche status, meaning it does not get the benefit of R&D and the latest bullets.

That 55k psi pressure limit is why the Winchester brass and small rifle primers should be used for any 9x23 load that exceeds 9x19 ballistics. The StarLine 9x23 SuperComp brass is not nearly as strong and will bulge with loads well below maximum in a standard 1911 barrel.

[dbateman]

I believe you mean for the custom .38 Super barrel to headspace off the case mouth, not the rim.

As far as I know all 38Super custom or otherwise come head spaced of the case mouth nowadays, I know Colt changed around 1986.

Supported chambers are good if you want to push the 38Super but for me not a deal breaker.

38Super is my favourite pistol round.

[JAD]

What modern duty /defensive loads are readily available in .38 super or 9x23 mm?

While you have to use a boutique brand like Wilson (or less appealingly DoubleTap or Buffalo Bore), there are excellent bullets at good speeds readily available. While I said that I would prefer to build or buy a 9x19 because of defensive load availability and brass cost, I already have one; if I didn't, I would probably still want one. Ammo selection isn't a barrier for me in carrying my Super.

PS: if enough of us get on this bandwagon we need to start pestering Stan Chen for a load.

[SteveK]

What modern duty /defensive loads are readily available in .38 super or 9x23 mm?

Virtually no good ones, because almost all the research and production goes into the common service calibers like 9 mm, .40, .45.

If your hands are bothering you, then choosing a steel frame 9 mm 1911 would probably be more prudent; even better would be a soft shooting polymer double stack like a M&P9 or a G17...

I can think of no better defensive load out there than the Winchester 125g silvertip for the 9x23. We played around with it years ago and were impressed by the ballistics and performance on medium sized game. It was basically a death ray. If I was going to go full bore on a dedicated cartridge and gun the 9x23 would be it. As I stated, I'm not totally convinced I don't want a 45, but the 38 super really interests me, I've shot a good bit of it in the past and the history of the cartridge intrigues me. I own and shoot several polymer frame guns, but they hold zero pride of ownership for me. This is going to be a pistol that I put some miles on and someday pass it down to Colt (my son) as something he'll keep and remember dad by.

[Little Creek]

you are correct.

[Little Creek]

I believe you mean for the custom .38 Super barrel to headspace off the case mouth, not the rim.

you are correct.

[AjayTaylor]

Trying to post a picture of my Series 70 in .38 SUPER. Great round, and i think an excellent choice for arthritis that is not totally crippling.
Sorry, I'm lousy at posting images. Just picture a mint condition Blued MKIV/SERiES 70 1911 in my favorite caliber, the speedy, metal piercing ,38 SUPER.
By the way, first post, howdy everyone!

[BN]

Steve, A .45 Commander with a 14# recoil spring and a 135 power factor load is sweet to shoot. Then if need be you can load real ammo. ;)

[gregorya57]

I picked up an Astra A-80 in 38 Super a couple of months ago on GB. I like the DA/SA format, and off-beat calibers. The Astra came with 2 15-round mags, and was virtually new, with no signs of wear. Hopefully it will prove reliable, as I would like to carry it regularly. I am not a fan of 1911's for daily carry, as I do not trust the SA safety mechanism with a round in the pipe. I may pick up a RIA Commander sized 38 Super at some point, but just for entertainment purposes.

[theJanitor]

I do not trust the SA safety mechanism with a round in the pipe.

What features of the safety mechanism(s) do you feel are not trustworthy? There's a mechanism to block the sear, and a separate mechanism to block the trigger. In the S.80, you can add another independent mechanism to block the firing pin.

[gregorya57]

I don't like a cocked hammer over a live round (Condition 1?), regardless of the number of mechanical safeties. DA/SA autos let me lower the hammer.

[Gary1911A1]

Trying to post a picture of my Series 70 in .38 SUPER. Great round, and i think an excellent choice for arthritis that is not totally crippling.
Sorry, I'm lousy at posting images. Just picture a mint condition Blued MKIV/SERiES 70 1911 in my favorite caliber, the speedy, metal piercing ,38 SUPER.
By the way, first post, howdy everyone!

Welcome to the forum. Perhaps like you my hands will start to hurt if I shoot a lot of 45ACP loads even in a steel frame pistol and find the 9MM/38Super 1911s' easier to shoot more rounds out of.