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View Full Version : PASS: Premier Action Shooting Sports Announced



cclaxton
10-27-2014, 11:30 AM
http://premieractionshootingsports.com/

I haven't read all the rules yet. But not sure I agree with their rationale on putting WML and Lasers into Race Pistol Division.
Also, yet another copyrighted target design?....Sigh....
Cody

JV_
10-27-2014, 11:37 AM
Is that a nickel plated Hi-Point on their home page?

jetfire
10-27-2014, 11:56 AM
Is that a nickel plated Hi-Point on their home page?

Looks like a Raven/Phoenix/Jimenez.

Also, I'm like 100% sure that they don't own the rights to that image.

AtomicToaster
10-27-2014, 05:54 PM
First glance = IDPA with fault lines. I'm down.

Dr. No
10-27-2014, 06:50 PM
I like it. Everything I like about USPSA, and all the good things about IDPA. I hope it takes off.

orionz06
10-27-2014, 07:18 PM
I can totally understand the no AIWB rule but holster behind centerline is silly, unless of course those who carry OWB slightly forward of that position are OK but that's doubtful. At least they appear to not pretend to be something they are not.

John Hearne
10-27-2014, 07:28 PM
If they're going to shoot their own target, they can at least do a better job. If you simply put the bottom of the -1 2.5" below the -0 (making it equidistant with the sides) you'd have a much better design. And -2 for a peripheral hit? And an ocular window, why is that so much to ask for.

I really like the Givens/Higginbotham approach of not set targets to allow for experimentation and an overlay with reasonable scoring areas that allows the use of normal cardboard targets.

Alpha Sierra
10-27-2014, 08:50 PM
Same old subjective crap as IDPA: "no noticeable bulge"......"suitable for every day carry"......bla bla bla

I'll PASS

Kyle Reese
10-27-2014, 08:52 PM
No interest since AIWB is out. Not changing my daily method of carry for a game.

orionz06
10-27-2014, 09:03 PM
I'll PASS

I see whatchoo did there

Byron
10-28-2014, 09:27 AM
Also, I'm like 100% sure that they don't own the rights to that image.
Given how many pages are using it, I can only assume it's a stock photo:

http://jtfcanada.com/why-us/
http://personalprotectioninstitute.net/about.html
http://flisb.com/istaw/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/c.png

I realize stock photos are an almost universally accepted element of web-design these days (my own company uses plenty), but it drives me nuts.

Don't get me wrong: I understand it makes way more economic sense to purchase a stock photo for a few bucks, rather than spend an order of magnitude more on a photo shoot.

But in cases like this photo, it almost borders on false advertising. I'm not saying this is what PASS is doing, but I could toss up a flashy website overnight for Byron's Awesome League of Legendary Shooting. The league might only exist in my head, but on my website there are tons of stock photos of shooters on the line, action shooting, etc. Someone finds my site, sees the images, and says, "Hey, this BALLS organization really looks like they're putting together great events!"

Mr_White
10-28-2014, 10:54 AM
No interest since AIWB is out. Not changing my daily method of carry for a game.

Ditto.

Alpha Sierra
10-28-2014, 11:21 AM
I hate to be a pessimist, but I predict that this thing will not spread past the founder's club.

Much like these guys: http://www.cqtas.net/

orionz06
10-28-2014, 11:32 AM
I hate to be a pessimist, but I predict that this thing will not spread past the founder's club.

Much like these guys: http://www.cqtas.net/

Not without enough change. One would think that folks would try to capture the ones who have voiced the same complaints about other games over and over again.

Alpha Sierra
10-28-2014, 11:55 AM
One would think that folks would try to capture the ones who have voiced the same complaints about other games over and over again.

Exactly. The subjectivity of so many IDPA rules is still there in this PASS rulebook. There's an interesting discussion on the "official" IDPA forum where someone is asking about running his mag carriers with the mags oriented bullets out. He said he would comply with the offset rule and with the concealment rule (both of which are objective rules).

Well, it didn't take long for someone to throw down the "not suitable for every day carry" crap in his face. This from someone who probably uses a Comp Tac or Blade Tech OWB holster, which print like a friggin brick and NO ONE uses for every day carry.

orionz06
10-28-2014, 12:03 PM
That's just it. There is a chance for someone to create a new game that addresses the concerns we have about other games. No sponsors to cater to with rules, no prominent players to cater to, no egos to hurt.

And they go and create the same damned thing. Of all the things I dislike about other games there is no compelling reason to jump ship.

Alpha Sierra
10-28-2014, 01:55 PM
Better the devil you know than the one you don't

Jim Watson
10-28-2014, 03:06 PM
Kind of like IDSA and TSA, not "different enough", eh?

Alpha Sierra
10-28-2014, 03:45 PM
Kind of like IDSA and TSA, not "different enough", eh?

Actually, PASS keeps most of the bad things about IDPA and fixes a few by adopting some things from USPSA.

Not sure what TSA you're talking about, sorry.

Jim Watson
10-29-2014, 09:58 AM
TSA = Tactical Shooting Association, set up to promote the D.R. Middlebrooks style of shooting. Not connected with the present Bureau of Shoe Inspectors.

IDSA = International Defensive Shooting Association, a Dallas project of a number of years ago.

Alpha Sierra
10-29-2014, 12:41 PM
TSA = Tactical Shooting Association, set up to promote the D.R. Middlebrooks style of shooting. Not connected with the present Bureau of Shoe Inspectors.

IDSA = International Defensive Shooting Association, a Dallas project of a number of years ago.

Ah, OK, thanks for the explanation.

Bureau of Shoe Inspectors......LOL

jetfire
10-29-2014, 12:49 PM
Running a successful shooting league takes a lot more than passionate shooters. That's why a lot of these other leagues, TSA, ACEs, USCA, have all largely failed to make a nationwide splash. 3-Gun Nation has succeeded as a league because the people in charge are good at business and focused on making a good product that appeals to sponsors, which means they can deliver good rewards to shooters.

premieractionshooting
10-30-2014, 11:51 PM
Hey folks, I'm the founder and President of PASS. I am a little late to this party, but wanted to wade in on a few issues. For those of you who have posted positive comments.......THANKS! For thos of you who voiced their displeasure, thank you too! I learn more ways to make things better from folks who aren't exactly thrilled with our product than those who like it.

The whole premise of this sport is to remove subjective rulings and calls. If the midline rule or the noticeable bulge rule get abused, they will be re-worded, clarified, and/or axed. The rules exist to prevent things like appendix carry, but it was difficult to put in a black/white rule without getting nitty.

As for the stock photos............I don't care for them either! As you can (hopefully) tell, we spent quite a bit to have a website designed that would appeal to people not currently involved in the shooting sports. Companies that know a lot about website design don't know squat about competitive shooting. The first pictures that they tried to use were way worse than what we have up now. If this sport catches on (things are looking pretty good in Texas and throughout the South), we will be changing those pictures soon.

I'm well aware of TSA and IDSA. I hope that I have learned a little something from their misfortunes. 3GN has a definite advantage in the sponsorship department BECAUSE they use three guns. With competitors using shotguns, rifles, optics, pistols, ect. they have a much wider base of potential sponsors than a pistol sport does. My business partner (my wife, who has an MBA) and I have learned quite a bit from the failure of those other sports as well as the success of 3GN.

We know that there will always be things in the rules that some people don't care for, but our goal is to be as responsive as we can to what shooters want. Prior to launching, we spent a considerable amount of time running test matches and we adjusted the rules to fit what shooters were telling us they liked and didn't like. Some of the rules that I liked when I first wrote the rule book got axed because shooters didn't like some of the things we did. The end result is a sport that really is pretty darn fun!

All we are asking right now is for folks to try it, we think you'll enjoy it.

I'll check back occasionally to see if folks have questions for me. If you want to ask me questions about ANYTHING, try the "contact us" tab on our website.

Maple Syrup Actual
10-31-2014, 12:16 AM
Given how many pages are using it, I can only assume it's a stock photo:

http://jtfcanada.com/why-us/
http://personalprotectioninstitute.net/about.html
http://flisb.com/istaw/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/c.png

I realize stock photos are an almost universally accepted element of web-design these days (my own company uses plenty), but it drives me nuts.

Don't get me wrong: I understand it makes way more economic sense to purchase a stock photo for a few bucks, rather than spend an order of magnitude more on a photo shoot.

But in cases like this photo, it almost borders on false advertising. I'm not saying this is what PASS is doing, but I could toss up a flashy website overnight for Byron's Awesome League of Legendary Shooting. The league might only exist in my head, but on my website there are tons of stock photos of shooters on the line, action shooting, etc. Someone finds my site, sees the images, and says, "Hey, this BALLS organization really looks like they're putting together great events!"

So how could I get in touch with your BALLS? I'm not looking for a huge commitment here...just a quick chance to feel it out and see how I enjoy the experience.

Mr_White
10-31-2014, 12:29 AM
All we are asking right now is for folks to try it, we think you'll enjoy it.

For me, that's not going to happen unless I can compete as I carry and that means appendix. Why do you prohibit it?

orionz06
10-31-2014, 06:03 AM
All we are asking right now is for folks to try it, we think you'll enjoy it.


There seems to be a solid list here as to why that won't happen. I would love to hear reasoning on some of the things.

Kyle Reese
10-31-2014, 06:53 PM
For me, that's not going to happen unless I can compete as I carry and that means appendix.

Same here.

Alpha Sierra
10-31-2014, 07:08 PM
All we are asking right now is for folks to try it, we think you'll enjoy it.
After several years of shooting IDPA, I've come to the conclusion that I want my shooting sports to be just that: sports. I don't want training. I don't want real life-inspired scenarios. I don't want to be told I have to shoot it this way or that way. I don't want to be told I have to use concealment. I want just sport, with zero pretensions of "real life", "training", or "practicality".

Mr_White
10-31-2014, 08:06 PM
After several years of shooting IDPA, I've come to the conclusion that I want my shooting sports to be just that: sports. I don't want training. I don't want real life-inspired scenarios. I don't want to be told I have to shoot it this way or that way. I don't want to be told I have to use concealment. I want just sport, with zero pretensions of "real life", "training", or "practicality".

I love how wide open USPSA is on all that. I appreciate that you and i could shoot the same match under the same set of rules with our different approaches. For that matter, so could someone who wanted to use "tactics."

Trooper224
11-01-2014, 12:54 AM
So how could I get in touch with your BALLS? I'm not looking for a huge commitment here...just a quick chance to feel it out and see how I enjoy the experience.

Oh my. :D

PPGMD
11-01-2014, 08:48 AM
I love how wide open USPSA is on all that. I appreciate that you and i could shoot the same match under the same set of rules with our different approaches. For that matter, so could someone who wanted to use "tactics."

And there is also the ability of the stage designer to setup stages that force the use of cover by putting fault lines as such that you have to lean out. And to be honest I've been in more strange positions leaning around cover shooting USPSA/IPSC than I ever have in IDPA.