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YVK
02-27-2011, 10:01 AM
Recently I've had an interesting experience that reinforced and changed my practice of shooting carry ammo. Generally when I pick new carry ammo, I shoot about 250 rounds of it for figuring reliability and POA/POI. Subsequently, when I practice with my training ammo, I throw a round that was chambered during carry into mix to avoid re-chambering the same carry round twice.
I have a P7 that is coming up to 10K rounds, only stoppages I had were due to parts breakage. For some reason or another, I decided to go through a box of HSTs. To my annoyance, I had multiple failures to feed on last round it the mag - usually a sign of worn magazine spring. A slight increase in slide velocity with +P ammo over my regular training ammo was all that was needed to cause malfunctions. The theory was reinforced when gun went back to usual 100% reliability with all ammo after mag spring change.
Despite added expense, I'll be shooting my carry ammo more often and in slightly larger volumes.

JodyH
02-27-2011, 10:13 AM
I usually shoot my "carry magazine" once a month or so.
I have a carry ammo "cold drill" like the FAST or El Presidente.

Jay Cunningham
02-27-2011, 05:01 PM
Good idea. Shoot some longer range bullseye to get a real feel for where your carry ammo is hitting. Also shoot it in low light and then hand it off to a buddy so that you can watch from the side to see how your muzzle flash looks.

Kyle Reese
02-27-2011, 06:44 PM
WRT shooting ones carry ammo, you'd be surprised how many people keep chambering the same carry round, over and over, and you cannot change their minds.

MTechnik
02-27-2011, 08:59 PM
WRT shooting ones carry ammo, you'd be surprised how many people keep chambering the same carry round, over and over, and you cannot change their minds.

Then you get the idiots on the other side of the fence that show up at the range, shoot all their carry ammo before testing their NEW carry ammo, find it doesn't work with their gun, and have to make a rush order for the old carry ammo from Midway. :o

Plus some new carry ammo to try out. (that shit gets expensive REALLY quick)

turbolag23
03-03-2011, 08:40 AM
WRT shooting ones carry ammo, you'd be surprised how many people keep chambering the same carry round, over and over, and you cannot change their minds.

a little increased pressure never hurt anyone... wait maybe it has.

i will admit i was guilty of that in the past and probably dont shoot my carry ammo enough. i'm trying to drop some bad habits that i was made aware of by forums like this.

Pistol Shooter
03-10-2011, 04:34 PM
Both my wife and I shoot our carry ammo about once a month.

LittleLebowski
03-10-2011, 04:42 PM
I usually shoot my "carry magazine" once a month or so.
I have a carry ammo "cold drill" like the FAST or El Presidente.

Adopting this idea.

Badfish25
03-10-2011, 10:27 PM
I was shooting some of my carry ammo, and had one round that jammed my gun up (ammo was Winchester Ranger 147 grain). It turned out that the case over all length was to long and the round got stuck when it tried to chamber. Ever since this has happened I always run my carry ammo threw a case gauge.

John Ralston
03-10-2011, 10:43 PM
I was shooting some of my carry ammo, and had one round that jammed my gun up (ammo was Winchester Ranger 147 grain). It turned out that the case over all length was to long and the round got stuck when it tried to chamber. Ever since this has happened I always run my carry ammo threw a case gauge.

Excellent suggestion



Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

ToddG
03-10-2011, 10:48 PM
If you don't have a case gauge, you can simply disassemble your pistol and use the barrel chamber. If it drops in the barrel all the way and falls out freely, it should be fine.

David Marlow
03-11-2011, 10:47 AM
Well, I guess I better do this too. And I suppose I should stop chambering the same round. I usually do accuracy and function testing with potential carry loads, but I never really did much practice with it, but I guess I will start when I get back.

Speaking of practice, Todd, your avatar could use some more. I keep seeing a muzzle flash, but he keeps missing me. It's a pretty cool one.

seabiscuit
03-15-2011, 08:03 PM
WRT shooting ones carry ammo, you'd be surprised how many people keep chambering the same carry round, over and over, and you cannot change their minds.

What's the problem with chambering the same round? I just don't see how that would be an issue...

JV_
03-15-2011, 08:05 PM
What's the problem with chambering the same round? I just don't see how that would be an issue...It's possible for the bullet to be pushed back in to the case, a little bit, with each chambering. This is called setback. It can lead to a KB/ruptured case.

fuse
03-15-2011, 08:30 PM
Do you have access to calipers? Measure the overall length of a new round and then chamber it 10 times, measuring its length each time. More than likely it will get shorter and shorter. This is a problem because it reduces internal case volume and thus will cause an increase in pressure.

DocGKR
03-15-2011, 08:53 PM
You guys are kidding about re-chambering, right?

This has been discussed numerous times, as noted by my post below on another forum:


"A large SWAT team in this area had a failure to fire from an M4 with Hornady TAP ammo during an entry--fortunately no officers were hurt and the suspect immediately threw down his weapon when the carbine went click instead of bang. After the incident was concluded, the team went to the range and expended the rest of their carbine ammo and had one additional failure to fire. This same team had 3 Hornady TAP rounds fail to fire in training a couple of years ago. When Pat Rogers was teaching a class at a nearby agency, there were 5 failures to fire using Hornady TAP ammo. In all 10 cases, there appeared to be good primer strikes, but no rounds fired. On analysis, the ammunition had powder and checked out otherwise.

http://www.tridentconcepts.com/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/1111782440871.JPG

However, despite what appeared to be good primer strikes, two problems were discovered. First, when accurately measured, some of the primer strikes had insufficient firing pin indentations. The failed round from the potential OIS incident had a primer strike of only .013"—the minimum firing pin indent for ignition is .017". In addition, the primers on the other rounds were discovered to have been damaged from repeated chambering. When the same cartridge is repeatedly chambered in the AR15, the floating firing pin lightly taps the primer; with repeated taps, the primer compound gets crushed, resulting in inadequate ignition characteristics--despite what appears to be a normal firing pin impression. Once a round has been chambered, DO NOT RE-CHAMBER IT for duty use. Do NOT re-chamber it again, except for training. This is CRITICAL!!!"

The following was written by an experienced combat veteran in response to my post above:


"Pay attention to what DocGKR posted above because it could very well save your life.

My first shooting in Iraq i threw my M4A1 on semi and ATTEMPTED to fire a controlled pair (First round functioned striking the threat and the second round did not function) i then transitioned to my secondary (glock 19 shooting ball) and had a failure to fire on my first round. Eek...i was Waaaaaay behind the power curve at this point.

At this point i was contemplating all of my various bad life decisions which had lead me to that point in my life and grabbed an M240B and solved the problem.

I AM VERY LUCKY TO STILL BE UPRIGHT AND BREATHING TODAY....the cause of these malfunctions you ask? Repeated chamberings of the same ammo.
I made a decision that day that my life was more important than following archaic rules written by those who sit behind desks and started shitcanning rounds after i was forced to clear weapons on U.S. Military installations."

seabiscuit
03-15-2011, 11:38 PM
It's possible for the bullet to be pushed back in to the case, a little bit, with each chambering. This is called setback. It can lead to a KB/ruptured case.

Thanks, that makes sense. So does DocGKR's later post.

willowofwisp
03-16-2011, 06:49 PM
I often shoot my carry ammo once every few months, if i unchamber the gun the next one up in the mag gets chambered and that one goes to the bottom.

Chuck Haggard
03-18-2011, 11:29 AM
I was the rangemaster at my job for a few years. I'd swap out duty ammo yearly (I'd do it every sux months but we didn't have the funds for that, and yearly seemed to work).

We were supposed to shoot the old duty ammo during qual, but I'd catch guys trying to Bogart the ammo for use in off-duty guns or BUGs, simply because they were too cheap to buy JHPs.

One day when I was also still on the tac team here I forced all of the guys to dig out all of their hoarded carbine ammo and shoot it up during training. Some of these guys had hoarded the duty rifle ammo for three or more years.

In the very first course of fire, 14 shooters, 10 rounds each, we had like 16 rounds fail to fire due to dead primers.

These were the primary mags/ammo that the guys were carrying on duty, during raids, etc.

BWT
03-18-2011, 08:10 PM
... I feel continually like I'm so out of place.

Guys with .45 ACP Defensive ammo being around $25-30 a box for a box of 20, and the desire to dry fire practice daily...

How many rounds of defensive ammo do you guys buy?

I'm going to say it, I'd love to be able to never re-chamber a Speer Gold Dot, but... I just can't afford it.

I mean every time you practice, every time you unload to put in a snap cap, every time you dry fire, you eject a round, or you simply don't practice.

Should I never practice?

Because frankly, to an extent... that's the situation I'm ending up in.

How do you guys find a balance?

Honestly.

ETA: I mean it's kind of a tight rope to walk, know your platform, or compromise reliability.

JV_
03-18-2011, 08:14 PM
Guys with .45 ACP Defensive ammo being around $25-30 a box for a box of 20You should be able to get a box of 50 for $30. A quick Google search for RA45T yields some good results in that price range.

BWT
03-18-2011, 08:21 PM
You should be able to get a box of 50 for $30. A quick Google search for RA45T yields some good results in that price range.

.... I love you.

Seriously. Whatever, I don't care if it's weird. I'm not saying No Homo, I love you.

;)

(I'm kidding, about the weird, I seriously love you).

I buy nothing in gun stores, but for some reason I bought .45 ACP JHP.

ETA: I had to say, I found some used Ammo for sale on Google, I had to LOL.

YVK
03-18-2011, 08:45 PM
.

I'm going to say it, I'd love to be able to never re-chamber a Speer Gold Dot, but... I just can't afford it.

I mean every time you practice, every time you unload to put in a snap cap, every time you dry fire, you eject a round, or you simply don't practice.

Should I never practice?

Because frankly, to an extent... that's the situation I'm ending up in.

How do you guys find a balance?

Honestly.



If you're committed to a specific pistol type, then for all serious purposes you'll probably end up with two of them as a back-up for parts/pistol breakage. For live fire practice, you'd expend a chambered round; for dry-fire practice you'd use a spare.

If you have multiple pistols of different kinds but all are sample of 1, then you may want to reconsider your priorities.

If you have one pistol only and can't afford a spare at the moment, you're in tough situation, but, given the choice, I'd take practice over no rechambering. You can use calipers and measure your rounds at baseline and discard those that get shorter. Also, while I am not advocating rechambering, standard pressure 45 ACP rounds may be more forgiving to bullet setback.

JodyH
03-18-2011, 09:52 PM
Also, some guns have a much straighter feed angle.
My P2000's are almost a straight shot from the magazine into the barrel, you can re-chamber the same round multiple times with no issues.
My Kahr PM9 on the other hand feeds the round almost straight into the steep feed ramp, I'll only re-chamber the same round once or twice before I either shoot it, toss it or measure it.

BWT
03-18-2011, 11:38 PM
If you're committed to a specific pistol type, then for all serious purposes you'll probably end up with two of them as a back-up for parts/pistol breakage. For live fire practice, you'd expend a chambered round; for dry-fire practice you'd use a spare.

If you have multiple pistols of different kinds but all are sample of 1, then you may want to reconsider your priorities.

If you have one pistol only and can't afford a spare at the moment, you're in tough situation, but, given the choice, I'd take practice over no rechambering. You can use calipers and measure your rounds at baseline and discard those that get shorter. Also, while I am not advocating rechambering, standard pressure 45 ACP rounds may be more forgiving to bullet setback.

I mean, the situation is recent college graduate still working the college student part-time job.

We're at different points in life.

How many duplicates of guns do you have?

YVK
03-19-2011, 01:03 AM
I mean, the situation is recent college graduate still working the college student part-time job.

We're at different points in life.

How many duplicates of guns do you have?

Yep, trust me, been there, point of life that is.

I have two 1911s - owning more of those, appropriately set up for serious use, is an expensive proposition for anybody.
In nine, I don't have duplicates, just a couple of samples of one; primarily, because I haven't committed to a specific platform. I am really hoping to change that, though. At present, I either use an entirely different 9 mm pistol to dry-fire, or unload, put chambered round at the bottom of a mag, and shoot the whole mag once I've chambered each and every round. That does get expensive even with 9 mm carry ammo. I don't fret if I lost track of it and may have rechambered this or that round twice, but I try to not to do it more than that.

JV_
03-19-2011, 05:57 AM
My P30s have been quite reliable for me, until the other night and I went to shoot more of my carry ammo. The only (non ammo related) malfunction I've had was with the first mag of my carry ammo....

JV_
03-19-2011, 06:20 AM
I mean, the situation is recent college graduate still working the college student part-time job.

We're at different points in life.

I think many of us have been there. If you can't practice a lot, you really don't want to get behind the curve by changing guns.

If you send me what your carry load is, I'll keep an eye out for some good deals and PM them to you. Ammo deal hunting is almost a hobby of mine.

willowofwisp
03-19-2011, 07:18 AM
I think many of us have been there. If you can't practice a lot, you really don't want to get behind the curve by changing guns.

If you send me what your carry load is, I'll keep an eye out for some good deals and PM them to you. Ammo deal hunting is almost a hobby of mine.


Jv,

I am looking for those one bullets, the ones in the movies, yea the one shot stoppers! but really I try and do the same, I spend a good portion of my time searching the internet for good deals on carry ammo, I think its ridiculous that they only offer the 50 round boxes to LEO, good thing they aren't that hard to find online.

jslaker
03-19-2011, 03:42 PM
Jv,

I am looking for those one bullets, the ones in the movies, yea the one shot stoppers! but really I try and do the same, I spend a good portion of my time searching the internet for good deals on carry ammo, I think its ridiculous that they only offer the 50 round boxes to LEO, good thing they aren't that hard to find online.

If you could readily sell the same product at twice the price by putting it in a smaller package, it kind of seems to be in your self-interest to do so.

Fortunately, the fact that you can easily find 50 round boxes online seems to be fairly common knowledge among serious shooters (which I spread to as many people as I can). Hate to say it, but most folks outside that population aren't going to be shooting enough defensive ammo to notice the huge mark up on 20 round boxes in the first place.

David
03-19-2011, 04:02 PM
I've re-chambered the same rounds many, many, many times and have never had nor do I expect to ever have any issues because of it.








*In a revolver.

Joe in PNG
03-19-2011, 04:10 PM
I've re-chambered the same rounds many, many, many times and have never had nor do I expect to ever have any issues because of it.


As a matter of fact, me too!*




*In a revolver.

dookie1481
03-28-2011, 01:43 AM
So I haven't found a consensus about this yet...

If you can't find a difference in OAL after re-chambering a round, does it matter? I know the HP closes up after a bit, but is there a feeding/reliability issues if you don't find a difference in OAL?

JHC
04-02-2011, 02:01 PM
I think shooting the carry mags regularly far more valuable than flipping premium quality carry ammo frequently. Nice.

I don't fret re-loading formerly chambered rounds. I have never seen a single example of premium carry ammo in .45 acp or 9mm set back from being chambered a few times. Actually never seen it from numerous chamberings either. ESPECIALLY not in a modern design that feeds close to straight in. But that is since begining to CCW in '81.

I inspect them each time.

JodyH
04-02-2011, 03:47 PM
Shot my carry ammo in stage one of the IPSC match today, Winchester 127gr. +p+ is damn close to making "major" power factor.
Was slapping the steel down like a .357sig.

Chuck Haggard
04-02-2011, 04:51 PM
I think shooting the carry mags regularly far more valuable than flipping premium quality carry ammo frequently. Nice.

I don't fret re-loading formerly chambered rounds. I have never seen a single example of premium carry ammo in .45 acp or 9mm set back from being chambered a few times. Actually never seen it from numerous chamberings either. ESPECIALLY not in a modern design that feeds close to straight in. But that is since begining to CCW in '81.

I inspect them each time.

I have seen premium 9mm set-back due to being rechambered several times.

I have also seen more than one safety alert on a blown up .40 pistol due to firing ammo that was set-back due to multiple rechamberings.

I'm not saying your experience is invalid, but you would be wise to keep an eye on your ammo just in case.

Moochin
05-08-2011, 02:43 PM
What is the train of thought on not rechambering a round? First I have heard of that


Edit: nevermind. Reading comprehension fail.

BWT
05-08-2011, 05:14 PM
I think many of us have been there. If you can't practice a lot, you really don't want to get behind the curve by changing guns.

If you send me what your carry load is, I'll keep an eye out for some good deals and PM them to you. Ammo deal hunting is almost a hobby of mine.

I didn't see this post until today, I'm going to acqurie an M&P9 relatively soon, honestly, I've found a source for some HST +P 147 gr in 9mm, I'm thinking that's a great alternative.

I would like to try RA45T though for the 1911, it's also just nice to have.

Thank you for the offer.

vecdran
05-16-2011, 01:42 AM
I have witnessed case setback before. I work at a gun range and am often swapping my carry rounds between my P30 and P30L. Even with my technique of manually inserting the round in the chamber, manipulating the extractor out so it doesn't have to hop the case rim, and gently lowering the slide, I will eventually observe case setback in the round I chamber continually.

Solution? Every other month, I dump all my rounds out of my carry magazines and chamber, line them all up, and eyeball them with a straight edge. Anything visibly setback gets chucked into the practice pile, or the dud bin if it's seriously smashed down.

The removed rounds have never failed to fire. I've had two that were stupidly pushed down, but that was back when I was doing full force chambering from the magazine. Did not dare fire those. Since I stopped that practice on carry ammo, setback is now minimal.

(Yes, my extractor is fine. 16k rounds through both of my guns in 10 months, the only extraction problems have been when the channel got filthy.)

shep854
07-11-2011, 07:01 PM
When I carried autos, I would rotate the top round in the magazine when I unloaded for cleaning, and made sure to fire off the rounds in the mags every few months--usually at the start of the session, so I'd be shooting my carry gun/load "cold", as it would be "for real". Now that I carry a revolver, rechambering is not an issue, but since I carry the reload in a speed strip, the ammo is exposed to sweat, etc, so I still like to blast off the carry loads at the start.

grimel
07-11-2011, 08:11 PM
I didn't see this post until today, I'm going to acqurie an M&P9 relatively soon, honestly, I've found a source for some HST +P 147 gr in 9mm, I'm thinking that's a great alternative.

I would like to try RA45T though for the 1911, it's also just nice to have.

Thank you for the offer.

Ranger T's are usually available relatively cheap at various online stores. Half cases are relatively cheap, ususally.

41magfan
07-21-2011, 08:04 AM
This is simple and it has worked for me;

Regardless of how often I shoot my carry ammo, I just mark (w/Sharpie) and rotate my previously chambered rounds to the bottom of my primary and extra magazines. By the time my marked ammo works its way back to the top to be chambered again - it gets thrown into the range bag as training ammo. Even if you load/unload a lot - you won't go through too many rounds with this procedure.

longball
09-16-2011, 07:54 AM
Ammo deal hunting is almost a hobby of mine.
I know you weren't talking to me but where is the best place you've found to get 147gr Winchester Ranger (RA9T)?

TAP
09-16-2011, 07:59 AM
I know you weren't talking to me but where is the best place you've found to get 147gr Winchester Ranger (RA9T)?

http://www.ombexpress.com/p-6769-winchester-ra9t-147-gr-9-mm-jhp-t-series-case-of-500.aspx#tab1

John Hearne
09-18-2011, 09:47 PM
Of the typical duty rounds, I'd worry about 40 S&W the most and 45 ACP the least. There is very little space inside of a 40 S&W case. Any setback will get you dramatically spiked chamber pressures at a round that starts at 35k psi. The 45 ACP has a lot more room in the case and pressures start at only 17.5K giving a lot more margin of error.

ToddG
09-18-2011, 10:43 PM
Actually, 357 SIG is the worst (though John may not consider that a "typical duty round" given its flagging popularity). Neck tension on the bottleneck cartridge is critical and multiple large LE agencies have had significant problems with guns due to bullet setback after a relatively small number of chamberings.

Kyle Reese
09-18-2011, 10:50 PM
I shot some of my "carry" (124 grain +P GDHP) ammo at the NRA Range on Friday, running my final FAST drill of the day.

JDM
09-20-2011, 04:43 PM
I cleaned my carry gun last night and shot 10 124+P GDHP through it right after to ensure function. I find this practice most comforting.




Actually, 357 SIG is the worst (though John may not consider that a "typical duty round" given its flagging popularity). Neck tension on the bottleneck cartridge is critical and multiple large LE agencies have had significant problems with guns due to bullet setback after a relatively small number of chamberings.

This.

I threw alot more .357SIG rounds in the 'practice ammo box' than any others because their OAL had changed. Sometimes even after a single chambering.

Nephrology
09-21-2011, 09:06 AM
.357 SIG is a scary cartridge for that reason. I have two friends (one of whom I would describe as "hillbilly tactical," the other just his witless lackey) who both converted to .357 SIG for carry on the grounds that its superior "HYDROSTATIC SHOCK" and its infamous "LIGHTENING BOLT EFFECT" make it "THE MOST POWERFUL CARTRIDGE IN AUTOLOADERS TODAY."

One of them also carries a franken-glock that was at one point a Glock 32 that now hosts a Lone Wolf long slide. He is very insistent that this extra slide length will give him the extra sight radius and barrel length which is totally necessary for self defense, apparently.

The funniest part, though, is that I have seen the Lone Wolf barrel choke on .357 SIG flat nose - the feed ramp on the thing is grossly out of spec (much more aggressively throated and ramped than the factory barrel). What did he do with the flat nose after it was slammed at high velocity into the nearly vertical feed ramp? throw it back in his range ammo bag.

Neither of them particularly enjoys spending money, either (once saw the former buy over $1k worth of Kel-Tecs in one day) and I am worried one of them will have a kB! as they continue to chamber-and rechamber the same cartridge. did I mention they both carry Double Tap?

A fool and his money... or in this case, a fool and his fingers....

JV_
09-21-2011, 09:10 AM
I threw alot more .357SIG rounds in the 'practice ammo box' than any others because their OAL had changed.I would suggest putting them in the dud/trash box.

Long tom coffin
09-26-2011, 10:06 AM
WRT shooting ones carry ammo, you'd be surprised how many people keep chambering the same carry round, over and over, and you cannot change their minds.

Amen to that. The funny thing is, it's really a matter of common sense. When I was a total pistol n00b (well, moreso than I am now), even then I realized that rechambering a round multiple times was a bad idea because it put nicks, small dents, and other assorted nasty stuff around the casing rim. I had no concept at all of bullet set back, but because I was carefully examining every last round of ammo I put into my gun (thanks in part to some really bad range ammo QC problems), i figured it might not be a good idea to fire those rounds. I still have them (3 to be precise) in my junk bin, and after reading this thread I took them out and examined them with a micrometer and a straight edge. There was no setback, but I would still be extremely uncomfortable firing them. In the junk box they stay.

After that, I got my second G19, and picked up a third one on a great deal after that. One of them now serves as my standby and practice gun for draws, reloads, and snap caps, and the other one is my guinea pig gun.


I'm a broke college grad student, but I would at least recommend that people save up and buy at least one extra of their chosen primary. That way, you can practice without ever having to remove/rechamber your carry ammo, and believe me, with as pricey as good carry ammo is, the cost savings you will benefit from will more than pay for your extra gun, if you are dryfire and draw practing like you should at home.

c4v3man
10-26-2011, 02:25 AM
I'm a broke college grad student, but I would at least recommend that people save up and buy at least one extra of their chosen primary. That way, you can practice without ever having to remove/rechamber your carry ammo, and believe me, with as pricey as good carry ammo is, the cost savings you will benefit from will more than pay for your extra gun, if you are dryfire and draw practing like you should at home.

My carry weapon for the past few years has been a hard chromed P7M8. Short of purchasing a retired police PSP for $700 and not being able to practice reloads, I'd be looking at $1,200+ minimum to grab a spare used P7M8. That's just not feasible for most people. I'm trying out a M&P 9, and at the $590 I (slightly over)paid for the pro model, or less than $500 for a standard model, it's doable. Not every carry gun is as cheap as a glock...

As said before by someone else, you can purchase something like the RA9T for $30 per 50. If you can mic several rounds that have been re chambered once (total of 2 chamberings) while remaining within spec, then you're only looking at $.30 a day. That should be doable for most people. Heck, even Winchester White Box 147gr hollowpoints are less than $20 for 50 at walmart, if you needed something that's cheap enough to practice with, and deal with rotating ammunition as well. Sure it's not the best HP design, but it's better than a kaboom any day.

I haven't been dry-firing at all, foolishly relying on occasional range time about every month or so. I've seen the light and have begun doing dry-fire on a daily basis, so the above RA9T ammo-rotation schedule is what I'm planning on using.

Tamara
10-26-2011, 06:41 AM
My carry weapon for the past few years has been a hard chromed P7M8. Short of purchasing a retired police PSP for $700 and not being able to practice reloads, I'd be looking at $1,200+ minimum to grab a spare used P7M8. That's just not feasible for most people.

How can you go to gun school or an out-of-state match with just the one gun? Isn't that tempting Murphy just a bit much? ;)

As far as 'spensive pistols go, you found the scratch for the P7M8 once, why not again? Of course, I've come to where I think having a second identical pistol is more useful than having a cool and distinctive one.

I knew this college student once who drove a 928S4 on the wages of his $8.50/hr job. When the clutch wore out, he lost his job because he couldn't afford to fix it (and then he lost his beloved Porsche because he had to sell it to pay rent...)

On the other hand, a few gun shows back, I found myself standing there with my zip-tied Springfield Pro in my hands, contemplating trading it for a pair of Glocks, just to prove to myself that I owned the pistol and not the other way around...

c4v3man
10-26-2011, 12:54 PM
How can you go to gun school or an out-of-state match with just the one gun? Isn't that tempting Murphy just a bit much? ;)

As far as 'spensive pistols go, you found the scratch for the P7M8 once, why not again? Of course, I've come to where I think having a second identical pistol is more useful than having a cool and distinctive one.

I knew this college student once who drove a 928S4 on the wages of his $8.50/hr job. When the clutch wore out, he lost his job because he couldn't afford to fix it (and then he lost his beloved Porsche because he had to sell it to pay rent...)

On the other hand, a few gun shows back, I found myself standing there with my zip-tied Springfield Pro in my hands, contemplating trading it for a pair of Glocks, just to prove to myself that I owned the pistol and not the other way around...

I feel that's a little harsh, as you don't know my reasoning behind my purchase of a P7, and just because it's "cool and distinctive" doesn't mean those are the only reasons worth owning one as anyone who carries one can tell you.

The value of owning a duplicate has it's merits, however I'm not necessarily going to tell someone who only owns one pistol to buy another G19 to match their existing weapon, as opposed to purchasing a LC9 or similar so they don't have an excuse not to carry.

As the thread title states, "shoot your carry ammo regularly". Simply having a marked extra empty box of your carry ammo that you "load" with already chambered rounds and shoot at your next practice session takes care of the issue more cheaply than purchasing another pistol, while retaining fresh ammo in your pistol over time. Obviously there are other benefits to having another training/backup pistol, but who knows, perhaps there's additional risks. If you "always" leave your practice pistol empty, you may become complacent instead of knowing your carry pistol is always dangerous. Following the 4 rules will keep you safe in either situation obviously, but you know how stupid people can get....

In my situation, I guess it comes down to purchasing one pistol is difficult enough to get past the wife. Purchasing another identical model leaves me in the doghouse that much longer ;)

Tamara
10-26-2011, 01:09 PM
I feel that's a little harsh, as you don't know my reasoning behind my purchase of a P7, and just because it's "cool and distinctive" doesn't mean those are the only reasons worth owning one as anyone who carries one can tell you.

Don't take it as harsh, just take it as a random musing from someone who has owned and carried two different P7M8s because it was her dream pistol since she was in high school because... well... there was a pic of that GSG-9 guy in his nomex poopie-suit in that book... :o

223

JAD
10-26-2011, 01:24 PM
I cringed a little at the thought of a 'chromed' P7.

c4v3man
10-26-2011, 01:36 PM
Don't take it as harsh, just take it as a random musing from someone who has owned and carried two different P7M8s because it was her dream pistol since she was in high school because... well... there was a pic of that GSG-9 guy in his nomex poopie-suit in that book... :o

223

Clarification noted. Your points certainly can apply to most shooters, and I doubt most people's first guns are going to be P7's. I guess I'm more used to dealing with my circle of friends and acquaintances, where they may own a couple shotguns, a hunting rifle, and are interested in getting a CCW pistol, where the prospect of spending $1300 for a primary/backup set (of $500 pistols) with all the other pre-requisites is just not realistic. They figure it's just $500 for the pistol and they're done, not realizing holster costs, possible belt replacement, magazines, etc really add up.

Then there's the discussion of whether or not one should carry unless they're able to commit to training, practice, etc... but that doesn't belong in this thread.

c4v3man
10-26-2011, 01:38 PM
I cringed a little at the thought of a 'chromed' P7.

Not my gun, but
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/137494-p7m8-de-horned-matte-chromed.html

is similar to what I have. I wasn't looking for "bling", just protection from the elements. It's a matte finish, not polished.

JAD
10-26-2011, 01:53 PM
I wasn't looking for "bling", just protection from the elements. It's a matte finish, not polished.
You're good -- matte chrome belongs on 1911 frames and is righteous as a protector from wear (though there are a lot of alternative choices for protection from rust -- have you ever seen an NP3'd P7 with Nill Grips?) for any pistol. P7s just need to have plum slides, in my narrow little worldview.

One small note on the P7, from personal experience backed up by complementary anecdotes from others, of which you're probably already cognizant: there is a portion of the drop safety that can break off and fall out of the gun (all pistols have flaws; in my prefered line, it's the feedway). I find that once that happens loading the pistol will induce a slamfire. So, I ////always//// make really sure of Rule 2 when loading (and, frankly, I still cringe a little every time I drop the slide).

Ed L
10-26-2011, 02:13 PM
On the other hand, a few gun shows back, I found myself standing there with my zip-tied Springfield Pro in my hands, contemplating trading it for a pair of Glocks, just to prove to myself that I owned the pistol and not the other way around...

I'm not really sure what that would prove. If I remember correctly you got the gun for a good price and really like the gun. As far as I am concerned the Springfield Pro is the most reliable and durrable factory custom 1911s on the market and you only have one of them, but have quite a collection of other guns that some might call esoteric. The Springfield Pro would be one of the last guns that I would sell in that situation.

c4v3man
10-26-2011, 02:30 PM
One small note on the P7, from personal experience backed up by complementary anecdotes from others, of which you're probably already cognizant: there is a portion of the drop safety that can break off and fall out of the gun (all pistols have flaws; in my prefered line, it's the feedway). I find that once that happens loading the pistol will induce a slamfire. So, I ////always//// make really sure of Rule 2 when loading (and, frankly, I still cringe a little every time I drop the slide).

I believe I recall hearing about that at one point, but I haven't really worked that into my routine check/reloading technique. Don't think I've read about it inducing a slam fire, but it's a great tip nevertheless. Whenever handing a loaded (or about to be loaded weapon) I make sure it's pointed in a safe direction, but perhaps I'll further narrow my "safe direction" possibilities when chambering a round.

In the interest of bringing the thread back on topic, would this be a viable reason to NOT carry +p+ rounds, and possibly +p rounds? Obviously if you are actually mic'ing each round before rechambering it wouldn't be a problem, but for those without that equipment, I would question how much setback you can safely have in a standard pressure round being fired in a +p capable platform.

Ed L
10-26-2011, 05:12 PM
In the interest of bringing the thread back on topic, would this be a viable reason to NOT carry +p+ rounds, and possibly +p rounds? Obviously if you are actually mic'ing each round before rechambering it wouldn't be a problem, but for those without that equipment, I would question how much setback you can safely have in a standard pressure round being fired in a +p capable platform.

Here is another possible option: Let's assume that your carry ammo is something like Winchester Ranger Talon or Federal HST, or some other round that you have to special order and pay shipping and $30 a box. It is not something that you can get at your local gun store. Thus you don't want to discard a round and relegate it to training ammo after you've chambered it two or three times.

You could buy a cheaper but decent hollowpoint and use that as your chamber round and have that be the round that you discard after you have chambered it a few times.

This is all assuming that you have checked all carry rounds for reliability and functioning in your gun.

c4v3man
10-26-2011, 05:31 PM
Here is another possible option: Let's assume that your carry ammo is something like Winchester Ranger Talon or Federal HST, or some other round that you have to special order and pay shipping and $30 a box. It is not something that you can get at your local gun store. Thus you don't want to discard a round and relegate it to training ammo after you've chambered it two or three times.

You could buy a cheaper but decent hollowpoint and use that as your chamber round and have that be the round that you discard after you have chambered it a few times.

This is all assuming that you have checked all carry rounds for reliability and functioning in your gun.

That had occurred to me, however my own internal voice was saying "the chamber round might be the only round you get". Granted, the difference between a midrange carry round and a high end carry round is fairly minimal, but the point still stands.
I've also been told that it's better to carry ammunition from the same batch if possible, to aid in ballistics analysis in the event of an investigation. Whether or not that's true is something I'd like to know. I've heard that a decent portion of CCW's carry HP's for the first few rounds, but throw in a few ball rounds in the event the needs the penetration.

Tamara
10-26-2011, 05:44 PM
I believe I recall hearing about that at one point, but I haven't really worked that into my routine check/reloading technique. Don't think I've read about it inducing a slam fire, but it's a great tip nevertheless.

I've been in the next room when it happened (http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-42211.html).

c4v3man
10-26-2011, 06:10 PM
I've been in the next room when it happened (http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-42211.html).

My house has a crawlspace over a mostly dirt floor, so I point down when chambering a round, which should stop the bullet, or at least slow down any potential ricochet to something that won't break the skin. I've been hit by a 45 ricochet when at a competition once, which left a bruise. Makes it easier to deal with the frustration of fogging up eye protection after that (the ricochet hit me in the chest, not implying it hit me in the eye).

ToddG
10-27-2011, 07:25 AM
I'm sorry, I cannot find sympathy here.

Let's suppose your total delivered cost on a 50rd box of your favorite top shelf JHP is $50. That means every time you go to the range, it costs you an extra dollar. Either you go to the range so infrequently that it probably won't cost you a box a year, or you go to the range so often that you're already spending a significant sum on ammo.

What it really boils down to is that most folks don't think it through and buy an extra box or two of their carry ammo so they've got the spares.

Joe Mamma
10-27-2011, 08:32 AM
I think shooting the carry mags regularly far more valuable than flipping premium quality carry ammo frequently. Nice.

I don't fret re-loading formerly chambered rounds. I have never seen a single example of premium carry ammo in .45 acp or 9mm set back from being chambered a few times. Actually never seen it from numerous chamberings either. ESPECIALLY not in a modern design that feeds close to straight in. But that is since begining to CCW in '81.

I inspect them each time.

One thing to consider is that a lot of premium defense type of ammunition (and even some low quality ammunition) has sealant between the bullet and case. I assume the main reason is to protect the powder and primer from moisture. Oftentimes you can't see the sealant unless you disassemble the round.

The sealant also acts like a glue and holds the bullet in place. So the bullet will not get setback easily upon chambering and rechambering (if your ammo has sealant).

With revolver ammo, I think the sealant also helps to prevent the bullet from jumping the crimp (or whatever it's called) and jamming the gun when the round is chambered, but not fired.

Joe Mamma

JDM
10-27-2011, 08:36 AM
One thing to consider is that a lot of premium defense type of ammunition (and even some low quality ammunition) has sealant between the bullet and case. I assume the main reason is to protect the powder and primer from moisture. Oftentimes you can't see the sealant unless you disassemble the round.

The sealant also acts like a glue and holds the bullet in place. So the bullet will not get setback easily upon chambering and rechambering (if your ammo has sealant).

With revolver ammo, I think the sealant also helps to prevent the bullet from jumping the crimp (or whatever it's called) and jamming the gun when the round is chambered, but not fired.

Joe Mamma

I'm pretty certain that some sealant around the case-neck isn't going to counteract the violent impact that the bullet endures with repeated chambering in a modern Semi Automatic pistol.

Tamara
10-27-2011, 09:13 AM
The sealant also acts like a glue and holds the bullet in place. So the bullet will not get setback easily upon chambering and rechambering (if your ammo has sealant).

That's a pretty minor protection against setback, relative to the forces involved, as BOM pointed out.

(As a general rule of thumb, the heavier and the larger diameter the bullet is, the more it is likely to experience setback. In defensive calibers, 230gr .45 and 180gr .40 are most prone to it.)

ToddG
10-27-2011, 11:06 AM
357 SIG (aka, The Hammer of God).is actually the worst due to the precision necessary in neck tension.

c4v3man
10-27-2011, 04:44 PM
I'm sorry, I cannot find sympathy here.

Let's suppose your total delivered cost on a 50rd box of your favorite top shelf JHP is $50. That means every time you go to the range, it costs you an extra dollar. Either you go to the range so infrequently that it probably won't cost you a box a year, or you go to the range so often that you're already spending a significant sum on ammo.

What it really boils down to is that most folks don't think it through and buy an extra box or two of their carry ammo so they've got the spares.

I think the problem lies not with burning the round you're carrying when you get to the range, but the problem with replacing the round each time you unload the weapon for dry-fire practice. I agree that no-one should be so cheap as to not be willing to lose a round each time you go to the range, but if you're practicing daily (25 times a month, which gives you a few days to not practice, etc) then that means you're burning through an extra box (if you're using locally purchased 25 rd boxes, instead of the larger 50 round boxes) of $30 ammo a month, as opposed to 1 round each visit to the range (unless they're like you and visit the range 25+ times a month).

I think "pay to play" comes to mind here, and is just part of the reality of the costs of training.

As discussed earlier, having a backup/duplicate that you don't keep premium ammo in to be used for dry fire practice would alleviate this and other potential issues...

Tamara
10-28-2011, 06:32 AM
357 SIG (aka, The Hammer of God).is actually the worst due to the precision necessary in neck tension.

Do you know, I sometimes forget that 9mm +P++ even exists? :p

Joe Mamma
10-28-2011, 07:26 AM
I'm pretty certain that some sealant around the case-neck isn't going to counteract the violent impact that the bullet endures with repeated chambering in a modern Semi Automatic pistol.

I think it depends on the gun, bullet, sealant, etc. I know that in some situations with modern semi-auto pistols, it's very effective. In other situations, it's not.

Joe Mamma

Chuck Haggard
10-28-2011, 01:09 PM
I am glad to see this thread and so much discussion.

Years ago, before I started on the job (well, and maybe a bit after) I was one of those "magic bullet" guys. You know, chase the next best possible loading, go for one load over another because it had 75fps more velocity, one was higher on Evan Marshall's chart than another, etc.

After seeing a number of shootings my views started to, well, mature. I came to realize that the caliber wars were retarded, and that if the effectiveness all of the various service calibers was too close to call, then where does that leave us with different loadings in the same caliber?
It helped me develop a more rounded experience that I started to handgun hunt more, and we had a coroner that allowed me to observe autopsies.


I still see guys who shoot ball ammo (or don't shoot at all) and have a stash of magic bullets that they have carried for years. Some of these guys have never fired any of their magic ammo, some only a few rounds and then carried the same ammo for years and years.

I have met guys, in this millennium, who are carrying 9mm BAT, 125gr Nyclad from the 1990s, .45acp KTW (yes, seriously), and even a guy who has some of that Illinois State Police 100gr (90gr maybe?) SP stuff from like the '60s or 70's at the latest, this in addition to the guys carrying regular ammo like 20 year old Hydrashocks based on 20 year old reputation alone.
Then there are the new magic bullets like the "Air Freedom" rounds and such that are way too expensive for anyone but a millionaire to shoot in enough quantity to be able to prove reliability, yet people buy into the hype and carry such ammo.
It makes Baby Jesus weep.


Like many here I have come to the conclusion over the years that a serious gun carrier doesn't need a whole bunch of guns, but 2-3 of the same main carry pistol. Then they need quality carry gear and training. After that they need some quality carry ammo bought in bulk.

I have whittled down my carry battery to Glock 9mms and S&W J frame .38s. Works for me across many levels and covers all of my carry needs from uniformed patrol to off-duty in shorts and a T-shirt on vacation.

I can afford to throw away or fire off my chambered round carry ammo on any given day because I have half a case of it left over in the basement. I know this ammo runs in all of my Glock 9mms, and shoots to POA=POI, as I have actually tested it. Once I got to that point between dry fire and shooting whatever ball ammo is cheapest I can keep my training up with minimal cost.

I also eventually settled, due to availability and cost at a point in time, on the 124gr +P Ranger-T and the 135gr Gold Dot as my serious ammo. I am not wed to this choice and when my carry stash runs low I will go with the next available round on Doc's list and find what is available and cheapest at that point, although I may just stay with what has been working for me for years.

BTW, we issue the 124gr +P Gold Dot at work, but only enough for a basic load, hence I keep a few boxes of that ammo on hand for my primary duty pistol, but I have found the Ranger-T to be more available and cheaper for me (locally through OMB in the KC area) so I went with that. That we have issued the Ranger-T at work before and noted that it worked very well on bad guys is a bonus.

Sparks2112
12-04-2011, 12:05 PM
Anecdotal at best but recently I considered switching from hst 147 9mm to ranger t 147 9mm purely because of recoil characteristics and cost. I set aside a case of the ranger and pulled 4 boxes to run through my carry gun before I bought the rest of the case. Out of two hundred rounds fired through a lem p30 I had 7 dead primers. Couldn't get them to go bang for anything. I sent the rest of the case back to the distributor we bought it from. Anyway my point being, it could have been bad for me if I had just thrown that stuff in my gun and ran with it. Never makes any sense to me how someone can spend 500 -1000 dollars on a carry rig then skimp on ammo.

bdcheung
01-12-2012, 10:11 AM
As discussed earlier, having a backup/duplicate that you don't keep premium ammo in to be used for dry fire practice would alleviate this and other potential issues...

I thought about this strategy, then thought about the numbers.

Let's say you practice 25 times a month. Practice includes dry-firing or heading to the range.

Each time you practice, you either unload or fire the chambered round of "premium self defense ammunition" (PSDA).

Over the course of a year, here's how I figure the "Cost of Practicing":

25 practice sessions per month X 12 months per year = 300 rounds of PSDA consumed
300 rounds / 50 rounds per box = 6 boxes of PSDA consumed
6 boxes of PSDA * $30 per box = $180 per year of PSDA

So at the end of the year, you've spent roughly $180 on self-defense ammunition that was employed in an other-than-life-saving-situation.

Comparing that to the cost of a backup of my carry gun, it would take me just short of 3 years to realize the savings from buying another M&P 9c for practicing.
(Note: I'm not calculating the value of having a back-up daily carry gun for parts, insurance against breakage, etc. because I just don't know how to assign a quantitative value for it. I recognize it's a shortcoming in this back-of-the-envelope calculation)

Just food for thought. I'm still undecided. Personally, before beginning a dry-fire session, I'll remove the chambered round and set it in a marked ammunition container that contains all previously chambered rounds that have been removed. That box then becomes my "PSDA ammo for practicing at the range" box.

Mr_White
01-12-2012, 12:44 PM
I thought about this strategy, then thought about the numbers.

Let's say you practice 25 times a month. Practice includes dry-firing or heading to the range.

Each time you practice, you either unload or fire the chambered round of "premium self defense ammunition" (PSDA).

Over the course of a year, here's how I figure the "Cost of Practicing":

25 practice sessions per month X 12 months per year = 300 rounds of PSDA consumed
300 rounds / 50 rounds per box = 6 boxes of PSDA consumed
6 boxes of PSDA * $30 per box = $180 per year of PSDA

So at the end of the year, you've spent roughly $180 on self-defense ammunition that was employed in an other-than-life-saving-situation.

Comparing that to the cost of a backup of my carry gun, it would take me just short of 3 years to realize the savings from buying another M&P 9c for practicing.
(Note: I'm not calculating the value of having a back-up daily carry gun for parts, insurance against breakage, etc. because I just don't know how to assign a quantitative value for it. I recognize it's a shortcoming in this back-of-the-envelope calculation)

Just food for thought. I'm still undecided. Personally, before beginning a dry-fire session, I'll remove the chambered round and set it in a marked ammunition container that contains all previously chambered rounds that have been removed. That box then becomes my "PSDA ammo for practicing at the range" box.

I do have dedicated practice guns that I use for all dry/live fire practice and I still choose to unload and reload my carry gun at the beginning and end of each practice session. The reason is that I am still using my carry holster for practice. I don't leave the carry gun loaded when it's out of the holster. If it's loaded, it's in my hand or in the holster. If it's out of the holster, sitting on a bench or the floor or in a pistol case, it is unloaded. That is just my own personal protocol and I'm sure there are other ways one could work this issue out. But that's how I work it out for myself.

bdcheung
01-12-2012, 12:48 PM
I do have dedicated practice guns that I use for all dry/live fire practice and I still choose to unload and reload my carry gun at the beginning and end of each practice session. The reason is that I am still using my carry holster for practice. I don't leave the carry gun loaded when it's out of the holster. If it's loaded, it's in my hand or in the holster. If it's out of the holster, sitting on a bench or the floor or in a pistol case, it is unloaded. That is just my own personal protocol and I'm sure there are other ways one could work this issue out. But that's how I work it out for myself.

We're getting a bit OT, but a simple safe would allow you to securely store your loaded pistol while you practice.

Mr_White
01-12-2012, 12:55 PM
We're getting a bit OT, but a simple safe would allow you to securely store your loaded pistol while you practice.

It certainly would. But I wouldn't bring the safe to the range, and then I would have two different procedures, one for home and one for the range, which, to my mind, invites an error. Just describing the way I work it for myself.

Chuck Haggard
01-12-2012, 01:25 PM
I took one of my Glock boxes, that I have so many of, painted it red and stenciled "LIVE WEAPON" on the outside, gives me a nice place to lay the loaded pistol when I have to do demonstrations or whatever.

This saves me from having to load/unload constantly.

Mr_White
01-12-2012, 01:30 PM
I took one of my Glock boxes, that I have so many of, painted it red and stenciled "LIVE WEAPON" on the outside, gives me a nice place to lay the loaded pistol when I have to do demonstrations or whatever.

This saves me from having to load/unload constantly.

Good idea, thanks! I have a lot of those Glock boxes too...

Chuck Haggard
01-12-2012, 02:17 PM
Good idea, thanks! I have a lot of those Glock boxes too...

As my daughter constantly says, "I know, right?"

Make a couple of them up, keep one in the car for going to the range or whatever. Use that as your home and away dry-fire ritual.

My ritual is to pick the weapon up from the box, press check, then holster. Seems to turn my brain on that we be loaded up again after dry fire work.


I also have a spare that I shoot normally so my carry ammo isn't always getting shot up, but when I do shoot my primary duty weapon the round in the chamber gets launched down range and replaced. I don't worry about cycling the ammo, marking it, putting it into the bottom of the mag or whatever.

ToddG
01-12-2012, 02:32 PM
My spare gun travels to the range in a holster inside my range bag. If I need/want to shoot the spare gun, my carry gun swaps places with it. Both guns are secure inside holsters that have good retention and completely protect the trigger guard.

JDM
01-12-2012, 02:39 PM
My practice gun resides in a PSS holster in my bag. When I get to the range I go up to the line, place my practice gun on the bench and place my carry gun in the holster back into my range bag. When I'm done, I switch back.

The trigger guard is covered and the gun is retained in a good quality holster in a closed pouch in my range bag. Further, it's always pointed down range.

Chuck Haggard
01-12-2012, 04:11 PM
My spare gun travels to the range in a holster inside my range bag. If I need/want to shoot the spare gun, my carry gun swaps places with it. Both guns are secure inside holsters that have good retention and completely protect the trigger guard.

I will also do this when I have several guns I want to shoot. I still use the "DANGER" box for when I am transitioning to/from dry fire or demo work where I am using a dummy gun, etc.

DocGKR
01-12-2012, 09:05 PM
My carry pistol loaded with good ammunition goes from my holster into my strong side rear pocket; the training gun to be loaded with FMJ then goes from the previously locked range bag into my holster and is used for the duration of the practice session. When done, the training gun is cleared and locked back into the range bag. The carry pistol is checked and put back into the holster.

JAD
01-13-2012, 03:44 PM
I took one of my Glock boxes, that I have so many of, painted it red and stenciled "LIVE WEAPON" on the outside, gives me a nice place to lay the loaded pistol when I have to do demonstrations or whatever.

This saves me from having to load/unload constantly.

It's been a while since I brought one home, but doesn't the glock box have a post that passes through the trigger guard?

JDM
01-13-2012, 03:49 PM
It's been a while since I brought one home, but doesn't the glock box have a post that passes through the trigger guard?

That was in the old 'Tupperware' box.
Glocks come in clamshell foam lined jobs now.

JAD
01-13-2012, 03:59 PM
That was in the old 'Tupperware' box.
Glocks come in clamshell foam lined jobs now.
I find that oddly disappointing.

ToddG
01-13-2012, 04:33 PM
I find that oddly disappointing.

Glocks lawyers, on the other hand, found it necessary.

JodyH
01-13-2012, 08:27 PM
When I head to the outdoor range I unload my P30 and place it into the range bag and pocket carry my Kahr PM9.
If I plan on shooting my carry ammo I just carry the P30 and stick the PM9 in my pocket as a BUG.
That way I always have a loaded gun on me while I'm at the range and while travelling to and from.

At the house when I dry fire I unload the P30 in a different room from where I'm dry firing and place my loaded P2000 into the bug out bag next to my desk.
All other ammo is in another room.
That way I have access to a loaded pistol but it's secured inside a zippered compartment to eliminate a stupid LOUD mistake.

Pistolero
01-22-2012, 02:31 PM
Recently I've had an interesting experience that reinforced and changed my practice of shooting carry ammo. Generally when I pick new carry ammo, I shoot about 250 rounds of it for figuring reliability and POA/POI. Subsequently, when I practice with my training ammo, I throw a round that was chambered during carry into mix to avoid re-chambering the same carry round twice.

I have a P7 that is coming up to 10K rounds, only stoppages I had were due to parts breakage. For some reason or another, I decided to go through a box of HSTs. To my annoyance, I had multiple failures to feed on last round it the mag - usually a sign of worn magazine spring. A slight increase in slide velocity with +P ammo over my regular training ammo was all that was needed to cause malfunctions. The theory was reinforced when gun went back to usual 100% reliability with all ammo after mag spring change. Despite added expense, I'll be shooting my carry ammo more often and in slightly larger volumes.

That's an interesting story! Yes, I used to regularly shoot off my carry ammo; however, faced with incessantly rising prices and my, now, fixed retirement income I've stopped doing that. Instead what I do is always purchase carry ammo that has lacquered casemouths and primer pockets - This way I don't have to worry (excessively) about carry ammo's number one enemy, oil and solvent contamination! I'm a, 'garage mechanic' with many years of experience taking guns apart, fixing them, and putting them back together again. (The right way!) :D

Consequently what happened to you with that weak magazine spring isn't likely to happen to me with my regularly changed Wolff Gunsprings. Oil contamination to primer pockets and casemouths is what I worry about; and high quality (good old fashioned) carry ammo is the best way I know to guard against it. My days of frequently shooting off carry ammo are over; just can't afford to do that anymore.