00 Flitecontrol - bad pattern

[shootist26]

Took my 870 out today to do a quick pattern verification with a couple brands of buckshot I have been stocking up on. It is an 870P with an imp cyl barrel

The Remington Managed Recoil 8-pellet 00 buckshot (RL12BK00) as expected patterned very well. Of all the standard bulk buckshot brands, this one patterns the best out of my barrel. Here is a 15yd shot on a standard IDPA target
http://i60.tinypic.com/t99yj8.jpg

The concern, however, was when I loaded up some of my old Federal LE Flitecontrol 9-pellet 00 buckshot (LE13200). Flitecontrol has normally patterned very well out of my barrel, so I'm not sure exactly what happened this time around. I tested 5 rounds of it; 3 patterned alright and 2 of them were pretty bad. Could possibly be a result of faulty wads or premature separation?

Here's an example of a bad one. This is a 20 yd shot. Notice the 5 fliers out of the -0 area. Normally it shouldn't be a problem keeping all 9 pellets in the -0 at this range.
http://i60.tinypic.com/2di4so6.jpg

[subsonic]

Is the barrel nice and clean? I have seen some weird stuff when I started to get a plastic buildup in the bore.

Is your barrel ported? Ports seem to make wad gunk build up near them.

[shootist26]

Is the barrel nice and clean? I have seen some weird stuff when I started to get a plastic buildup in the bore.

Is your barrel ported? Ports seem to make wad gunk build up near them.

clean barrel. Standard 870P imp cyl. No ports.

[GJM]

Another reason to use a slug if an exact pattern is critical.

[ASH556]

Wow, that's very interesting...in a bad way. I use the #1 Flitecontrol load and out of my 18.5" Benelli Cylinder barrel I get groups like this at 25yds:

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/20130824_201119.jpg

[41magfan]

I would guess that you're experiencing an anomaly of some sort with the ammo. I've observed many thousands of Flitecontrol loads fired through an inventory of 100+ shotguns and I don't recall there being any performance issues with the inevitable variables you encounter with that many SG's.

[shootist26]

has anybody else experienced this with Flitecontrol buck? Right now, I'm attributing it to wad failure

[DocGKR]

Yes, we have seen this before; they are shotgun loads, sometimes weird things happen...

[czech6]

We've noted similar issues with recently aquired LE13200, lot number 5p-41vm147. We're getting 15+ inch patterns at 25 yards, versus the usual sub 10" groups. The lot number is printed on the inside of the tongues of the boxes. I'd be interested to see if your having problems with the same lot of ammo.

[shootist26]

We've noted similar issues with recently aquired LE13200, lot number 5p-41vm147. We're getting 15+ inch patterns at 25 yards, versus the usual sub 10" groups. The lot number is printed on the inside of the tongues of the boxes. I'd be interested to see if your having problems with the same lot of ammo.

Don't know the lot number of mine. But they were purchased in 2012 or so.

[shootist26]

Got out to the range again today with my 870P, 18.5" unported IC barrel. Tried out some Federal Law Enforcement #1 buckshot w/ Flitecontrol wad

15yd pattern on a standard size IDPA/IPSC repair center target . Lot # 5V-02PG123. This is a wider pattern than Remington's 8-pellet 00 buck that has no flite control wad.
12469

Recovered wad #1. Does not seem like it opened up correctly
12470
12471

Recovered wad #2
12472

Wonder if this is something I should bring to federal's attention?

[Unobtanium]

No Benelli I ever used it in worked well with it. I used it in M4's though. It did horrible. Same load from a mossy would keep all the lead inside a basketball at nearly 50 yards. I never was a fan of it though. Erratic performer. I use(d) Ranger HD and loved it. Super predictable, and very hard lead.

[Tabasco]

I believe the "petals" are on the rear portion of the wad. They create drag (much like feathers on an arrow) that slowly pulls the wad cup away from the shot column. There are also some air brake type of flaps on the forward portion of the shot cup that also create drag and help the wad separate. The mangled petals might have been created after the wad and shot separated, and the wad impacted the target or dirt base forward. I haven't shot lots of flite control, had have had a few weird patterns (vertical stringing o target) so one might imagine the wad not separating cleanly from the shot from time to time, but most of my patterns from my 870 and Moss. 590 have been crazy tight, as advertised. I imagine the wad works best with cylinder barrels, chokes could grab the wad a bit and create more of the crazy patterns I mentioned. All my barrels are cylinder.

[shootist26]

quick update:
I sent three boxes of LE132-1B back to Federal to take a look at. They told me that Flight control spec is to fire 5 rounds with a total allowed group size of 15" max @ 25 yards. They tested my ammo and it did not have a problem meeting this requirement, even though it patterns worse than the Remington 8-pellet 00 load out of my barrel. Federal was nice enough to enclose a $20 check for the ammo I sent them.

This shotgun is an indoors shotgun, so I may stay with the #1 buck.

[nycnoob]

You may wish to try Tom Givens' solution to a bad patterning 870.
In the shotgun classes I took with him, he suggests that you buy a new 870 barrel
and sell your old barrel at a gun show. He says some barrels are just worse
than others, and that is what gun shows are for (not for buying other peoples useless crap).

[Eric_L]

Wow, that's very interesting...in a bad way. I use the #1 Flitecontrol load and out of my 18.5" Benelli Cylinder barrel I get groups like this at 25yds:

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/20130824_201119.jpg

This is about what my M2 with cylinder choke does, out to 30 yards. I have a friend with an 870 and cylinder choke that is even tighter. One of our local shotgun guys told me he would expect the 870 in general to have tighter patterns because the Benelli barrels have a bit of backbore.

[Jason M]

You may wish to try Tom Givens' solution to a bad patterning 870.
In the shotgun classes I took with him, he suggests that you buy a new 870 barrel
and sell your old barrel at a gun show. He says some barrels are just worse
than others, and that is what gun shows are for (not for buying other peoples useless crap).

If I remember correctly Tom also mentioned that one should choose the 8 pellet 00 buck load over the 9 pellet load. The 9 pellet was reported to often throw 1 pellet. I think he called it "8 pellet and 1 flier".

[Tabasco]

Been doing some pattern testing with #1 Buck FC, 00 buck FC 8 pellet, and 00 buck FC 9 pellet. 1 Mossberg 590 20" barrel, 1 Mossberg 590A1 18", and 1 Rem. 870 18" IC barrel with XS sights. I have found in all 3 shotguns, #1 buck and the 00 8 pellet load are by far the tightest, sub 2" patterns at 15 yards pretty consistently. The 9 pellet 00 load opens up to 2-3" at 15 yards. Point of impact for pattern and Brenneke HD Tactical slugs pretty much the same at 15-25 yards. I assume that the pattern variations are due to how the pellets are packed into the shot cup, and how that arrangement effects pellet deformation during launching, with the 9 pellet load having the worst arrangement in the cup, and #1 and 8 pellet 00 the best.

[David S.]

Don't know the lot number of mine. But they were purchased in 2012 or so.

You might try picking up a box of brand new ammo before you go too far down the rabbit hole. I don't remember the details, but seem to recall Dagga Boy say that shotgun shells have a short shelf life. Like a year or two.

[Tabasco]

You might try picking up a box of brand new ammo before you go too far down the rabbit hole. I don't remember the details, but seem to recall Dagga Boy say that shotgun shells have a short shelf life. Like a year or two.

I bought a case of the old Federal H132 00 in 1999. Gone through 100 rounds or so last month, and it seems to work just fine. YMMV

[blues]

I bought a case of the old Federal H132 00 in 1999. Gone through 100 rounds or so last month, and it seems to work just fine. YMMV

I've also fired off 00 and slugs dating from around the same period during the past year. The very few that had obvious corrosion on the brass were not tested. All the others fired without exception.

[txdpd]

You might try picking up a box of brand new ammo before you go too far down the rabbit hole. I don't remember the details, but seem to recall Dagga Boy say that shotgun shells have a short shelf life. Like a year or two.

If left loaded long enough, hulls can compress and start to mushroom or flare and cause feeding problems. It's most evident in a magazine fed shotgun like a Saiga, and in a tube even cheap stuff will take years to deform. Stiff Flitecontrol/Versatite wads that run the length of the hull make it a non issue on relevant Federal and Hornandy buckshot in a tube. Since "sealed" shotgun hulls can only be counted on to resist incidental contact with water, it doesn't hurt to change them out on an annual basis.

Stored properly they should have a decades long shelf life, but I'd keep fresh stuff in the shotgun and save the ammo testing for the range.

[RevolverRob]

If I remember correctly Tom also mentioned that one should choose the 8 pellet 00 buck load over the 9 pellet load. The 9 pellet was reported to often throw 1 pellet. I think he called it "8 pellet and 1 flier".

This.

9-pellet buck more frequently produces fliers than 8-pellet.

I personally use 8-pellet 00 Flitecontrol or TAP (versatite) in all of my 12-gauge guns. I would not use 9-pellet, because of fliers.
shootist26 to answer your question - yes I've had fliers with 9-pellet FC buck. I use only 8-pellet and have not had an issue with fliers.