Bottom Dwelling 1911's

[ASH556]

Disclaimer: My 3EA Gen 4 Glock 17's are my go-to pistols, ECT, Training, etc.

I want a 1911 because: 'murica, they're pretty & have a soul (unlike Glock), they're accurate, just 'cause!

I might like to carry it on the occasional Saturday at the gun shop. The shop where I work is a Kimber master dealer and I can get a good deal (38% off retail) on Kimber 1911's. This makes a Custom II just under $550. A TLE is $675. I prefer simpler, blue, maybe with walnut stocks. I don't care so much what sights come on it because I want to replace them with some sort of brass bead arrangement anyway.

So, in the $600-ish range, is the Kimber a decent idea? Will it fulfill the above role or am I better off picking up something like a used Springfield Range Officer? Any other options in the price range? I realize that we're scraping the bottom of the barrel here for a lot of you guys, but this is an occasional use gun and I don't expect or require the reliability I do from my Glocks. If I did and was more dedicated to the 1911, I would be selling off some things and buying something like a Wilson.

Thanks!

ETA: I have skimmed the following already and sort of need an answer to the circumstances listed above:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?10529-Calling-all-Kimber-know-it-alls
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5432-Critical-Review-of-a-Kimber-1911
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4737-A-discussion-on-Kimber-quality

[GardoneVT]

My view on Kimber is this. They make great looking 1911s, and one should on occasion watch one on YouTube or admire the ad copy of the same.

For a 1911 to actually shoot at the range, I went a different route.

[JV_]

What caliber?

[ASH556]

What caliber?

.45ACP

[pdb]

FWIW, I've really been impressed with every single Ruger 1911 I've put my mitts on lately. I think it's the least expensive no-BS 1911 you can get right now.

Colt is also making some really nice 1911s these days. I'd buy either of those before I bought a Kimber, but if you feel the need to fly the brand flag at the store, that might be more important to you.

Good luck!

[JV_]

Is this something that you may want to upgrade in the future?

[ASH556]

Is this something that you may want to upgrade in the future?

Only the sights and MAYBE the guide rod (to a standard length/bushing design vs the Kimber full length). I cannot imagine a scenario where I would want to start adding magwells, or any other major changes. For sights, I want something like this (but narrower front):

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc86/zippy357/EMP/Gold%20Bead/103_0762.jpg

[Jeep]

You might want to take a look at the basic Remington R1. It is a nice looking pistol, and while I would never try to turn mine into a high-round-count gun, it has several thousand rounds through it with no issues. The biggest downside is that it is series 80 in design, but for the price I don't think it is easy to beat. If you can afford several hundred more, then I would think about going with a Colt.

My experiences with Kimber, by contrast, have been less than thoroughly favorable.

[JV_]

Some data-points from someone far more clueful about 1911s than me:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5432-Critical-Review-of-a-Kimber-1911

[ASH556]

Some data-points from someone far more clueful about 1911s than me:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5432-Critical-Review-of-a-Kimber-1911

Yeah, that's one of the threads in my OP. I've read the whole thing and unless I'm missing something, Bill is of the opinion that they are not nearly as much "the devil" as a lot of folks say. In other words, probably fine for my purposes. Then again, I want to make sure I'm not missing something there.

[JV_]

Sorry, I didn't see you linked to it. Yes, he's made that comment elsewhere too, but I couldn't find it.

With your discount, if it sucks, you can probably send it back to get fixed and then resell it with no loss.

[JTQ]

At those prices I think they would be a good choice.

I think the Custom II and TLE II are pretty good values at their regular prices. When you go up the ladder in the Kimber family you are mostly paying for "flash", they are just fancier versions of the Custom II or TLE II.

The difference between the two is basically the sights and front strap checkering and what those two features are worth to you. Twenty years ago I'd probably paid for the night sights and checkering, but these days I think I'd rather do without.

[farscott]

I would consider the SA Mil-Spec or Range Officer before Kimber. While SA is not perfect as shown by Dr. Riehl's test mule, it is much more pleasant dealing with SA customer service -- and the SA guns are guaranteed for life -- than Kimber. The Range Officer is a lot of 1911 for the money, and the frames and slides are no longer forged by Imbel. SA says the forging is now done in the USA, but the supplier has not been named. My sneaking suspicion is S&W does the work.

[MVS]

FWIW, I've really been impressed with every single Ruger 1911 I've put my mitts on lately. I think it's the least expensive no-BS 1911 you can get right now.

Colt is also making some really nice 1911s these days. I'd buy either of those before I bought a Kimber, but if you feel the need to fly the brand flag at the store, that might be more important to you.

Good luck!

I wish that was my experience. The Ruger 1911 CMD that I have wont shoot more than 5 or 6 rounds in a row. That is with different types of ammo and different mags.

[theJanitor]

Used Range Officer's are typically great bargains. If Jardine makes a rear sight for it, I think it would make a great combo

[JSGlock34]

I have been very pleased with my NM prefix Springfield Armory Loaded (PX9109LP), which I secured new at a show for $675. It has proven accurate, reliable and a solid base pistol for customization.

2651

[SteveK]

If Kimber was my option I'd stick to the Warrior and have the match barrel reamed.

[Lon]

Earlier this year I bought a 1911 just because. I bought an STI Spartan in the $6-700 range. Good gun for the money and I've known a bunch of guys that have them and have had good luck with them. Just a thought.

[45dotACP]

Honestly though, the 600-700 buck 1911's aren't necessarily the devil if you have the time to make the work...They will require a certain amount of massaging to run correctly. That level of massaging varies from just buying the right mags and getting a numerical tension reading on the extractor to recutting the feed ramp and buying a new barrel. Kimber has a bad problem with the lower lugs on their barrels and they batter like you wouldn't believe.

For 650, I'd look at a Ruger. They've received high marks from guys like John Harrison and Joe Chambers and that's saying something.


Honestly though, I thought you were going to say you were buying a Rock Island...and then I'd just say go for it. They're cheap :D

[ASH556]

If Kimber was my option I'd stick to the Warrior and have the match barrel reamed.

Really? The Warrior costs me $945. I would think if spending that much then a Colt Rail Gun or Springfield TRP starts to be a better deal.

Thanks for all the feedback thus far. I'm thinking $675 for a TLE might be the ticket. Not too much money, lots of bang for the buck, easier to move if it doesn't work out.

[HCM]

The advantage of the Warrior is its a series 70/ no series II Schwartz safety but Based on the parameters of your OP I think the TLE would be the ticket - I'm biased towards the TLE vs. standard kimber as I have a thing for checkering :-)

Plus, I would be shocked if your 1911 stayed stock for long ....

[BLR]

If I were you, OP, I'd buy the TLE. The Schwartz is an easy thing to make sure is working, or just trash the parts. I'd take a good hard look at the mag well to make sure the thickeness was the same on both sides (not 100%, but will give you a clue that the mag well as broached straight), and other than that, in all likelihood, you'll be GTG. Same true for a RO.

I've seen more little problems with MIMber than with Imbecile. But I've seen much larger, nastier, unfixable stuff from Imbecile.

YMMV, FWIW, Not a Super Ninja Expert Bromance Subject, etc, etc.

[ASH556]

If I were you, OP, I'd buy the TLE. The Schwartz is an easy thing to make sure is working, or just trash the parts. I'd take a good hard look at the mag well to make sure the thickeness was the same on both sides (not 100%, but will give you a clue that the mag well as broached straight), and other than that, in all likelihood, you'll be GTG. Same true for a RO.

I've seen more little problems with MIMber than with Imbecile. But I've seen much larger, nastier, unfixable stuff from Imbecile.

YMMV, FWIW, Not a Super Ninja Expert Bromance Subject, etc, etc.

I was hoping the wealthy tinkerer would join in here. Thanks for your input, sir!

I suppose the most "correct" answer is save up $2500 and buy a Wilson, but I just don't love the 1911 that much (blasphemy, I know).

TLE it shall be.

[BLR]

I was hoping the wealthy tinkerer would join in here. Thanks for your input, sir!

I suppose the most "correct" answer is save up $2500 and buy a Wilson, but I just don't love the 1911 that much (blasphemy, I know).

I have a beater TLE that I've....well beaten on quite a bit. And loaned out.

When I got it, I junked the swartz, changed the extractor to a BP, and the ejector, reamed the chamber, and it runs like a raped hog.

With 1911s, the problem isn't the design. The problem is the derpy market that wants a 2" @ 50m gun that is 100% reliable and less than 1k. And the internet bro-experts have gotten people believing there is some voodoo in 1911s. There isn't.

[MVS]

.
With 1911s, the problem isn't the design. The problem is the derpy market that wants a 2" @ 50m gun that is 100% reliable and less than 1k. And the internet bro-experts have gotten people believing there is some voodoo in 1911s. There isn't.

That is a stealable quote right there.

[David S.]

I have a beater TLE that I've....well beaten on quite a bit. And loaned out.

When I got it, I junked the swartz, changed the extractor to a BP, and the ejector, reamed the chamber, and it runs like a raped hog.

With 1911s, the problem isn't the design. The problem is the derpy market that wants a 2" @ 50m gun that is 100% reliable and less than 1k. And the internet bro-experts have gotten people believing there is some voodoo in 1911s. There isn't.

So if I was looking for a out-of-the-box 1911 that had typical Glock-like accuracy and reliability, could that be done for under a grand? What make/models could do that? Might as well ask about .45 and 9mm too.

[Robinson]

So if I was looking for a out-of-the-box 1911 that had typical Glock-like accuracy and reliability, could that be done for under a grand? What make/models could do that? Might as well ask about .45 and 9mm too.

All three of my Colts meet that criteria so far, FOR ME. This is not a blanket claim that all sub-$1000 Colts fit the bill. Simply my observation after a couple thousand rounds through the guns, which I realize is not a lot of rounds.

Of course with some pending modifications they are all ending up costing more that that but the mods do not affect accuracy or reliability.

[JAD]

I suppose the most "correct" answer is save up $2500 and buy a Wilson, but I just don't love the 1911 that much.

You might if you had a Wilson.

[45dotACP]

internet bro-experts have gotten people believing there is some voodoo in 1911s. There isn't.

I dunno...I hear those internal extractors are fragile and are just the thing to get one killed on the streets

;)

[Clobbersaurus]

I saw the thread and thought you were talking sub $500 1911's.

Here's a few picks of a Chinese Norinco 1911 in 9mm that I owned for a brief period of stupidity. These can be had brand new here in Canada for $350. Which is only about $10 American. This is about as ghetto as it gets for 1911's. It worked fine for about 250 rounds. Mr. Riehl might not want to look at these...
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/932280b5-46ed-4b37-9ae1-6b35f3f5a910_zps70262f61.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/932280b5-46ed-4b37-9ae1-6b35f3f5a910_zps70262f61.jpg.html)
The extractor it came with...remember this was a 9mm.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC03193_zps4c959e2d.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC03193_zps4c959e2d.jpg.html)
Hmmm..
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC03208_zps2f028d92.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC03208_zps2f028d92.jpg.html)
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC03200_zpsc0908591.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC03200_zpsc0908591.jpg.html)[/QUOTE]
Lots of internal machine marks.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC03222_zpsbf558dc2.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC03222_zpsbf558dc2.jpg.html)
Nice and crooked.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC03231_zpse577178d.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC03231_zpse577178d.jpg.html)
This was a common occurrence...
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC03253_zps6018fb3f.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC03253_zps6018fb3f.jpg.html)

Friend don't let friends buy cheap 1911's. I hear lots of good things about STI Spartans, which are quite popular here and can be had for $850 or so.

[theJanitor]

Damn, Clobbersauras. That was painful to look at

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Wow. That's actually the worst Norinco I've ever seen.

And that's saying something.

[JTQ]

... no series II Schwartz safety...
Fingernails on the chalkboard.

It is Swartz.

And may the Schwartz be with you.:)

[1986s4]

So if I was looking for a out-of-the-box 1911 that had typical Glock-like accuracy and reliability, could that be done for under a grand? What make/models could do that? Might as well ask about .45 and 9mm too.

My sample of one Colt fits this description. My new [10 months ago] .38 Super Auto is so far, in my hands, 100% reliable, quite accurate and easy to shoot well. It was had for roughly $850.00. So far the only thing that has surprised me is how much I like it.

Only changes from stock: rear sight to 10-8 NM and grips [Magpull].

[JHC]

So if I was looking for a out-of-the-box 1911 that had typical Glock-like accuracy and reliability, could that be done for under a grand? What make/models could do that? Might as well ask about .45 and 9mm too.

All ten of my Colt or SA rack grade guns over that last few decades met that.

I'm sorta jonesin' for a 9mm just to play with on the range. Thinking RIA GM like Caleb said ran so well for 5K rds at his office. That could be under $400 on occasion.

[45dotACP]

All ten of my Colt or SA rack grade guns over that last few decades met that.

I'm sorta jonesin' for a 9mm just to play with on the range. Thinking RIA GM like Caleb said ran so well for 5K rds at his office. That could be under $400 on occasion.

It would taste a lie for me to say that I wasn't interested in picking up a 9mm Rock Island 1911 some time ago...I'd still be very interested to see one go through a lot of ammo to see what breaks first.

[Rich]

I would take a Colt any day!

I would prefer a 70 series first and if I couldn't find one then I would go with a 80 series.

My Gen1 80 Colt Combat Elite was reliable and very accurate .

I trusted it as much as I do my 98 sig P229 and P30S

[Sigfan26]

Really? The Warrior costs me $945. I would think if spending that much then a Colt Rail Gun or Springfield TRP starts to be a better deal.

Thanks for all the feedback thus far. I'm thinking $675 for a TLE might be the ticket. Not too much money, lots of bang for the buck, easier to move if it doesn't work out.

I'd just stick to Springfield or Colt (Coming from the owner of a heavily customised Springfield and a TRP Stainless). If I were looking top spend less than $1k, Springfield Loaded Stainless (PX9151LP). To me, only reasons that I carry a 1911 are nostalgia or for show (bbq gun)... But I still refuse to compromise reliability with premium ammunition (Federal HST or 230gr Speer Gold Dot). Great success with Springfield, less so with kimber.