mk318 SOST bonded?

[Unobtanium]

Does it exist? One suspects it easily could...

[Alpha Sierra]

I suspect I could easily make an analog with commercially available components, such as Nosler's .224 64 grain Bonded Performance bullets.

[NH Shooter]

I suspect I could easily make an analog with commercially available components, such as Nosler's .224 64 grain Bonded Performance bullets.

This. I am thinking about taking some unfired XM193, pulling the bullets, replacing the powder charge with Varget or CFE 223 and using the Nosler pill. Reload specs here (for 223);

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

http://www.nosler.com/223-remington/

[KevinB]

Since SOST was adopted Federal dropped the Trophy Bearclaw round - and the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw.

SOST is not a bonded bullet - though I understand one was looked at.

Closest I think you can get to a bonded 'SOST' is the Federal F223FS1 62gr loading. Using the Fusion bullet.

[Unobtanium]

Since SOST was adopted Federal dropped the Trophy Bearclaw round - and the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw.

SOST is not a bonded bullet - though I understand one was looked at.

Closest I think you can get to a bonded 'SOST' is the Federal F223FS1 62gr loading. Using the Fusion bullet.

I thought Federal had an FBI contract to supply XM556FBIT3?

I simply don't understand why a bonded SOST was tested, performed better, and now it's off the radar. I understand if JAG prevented it from being fielded like SOST, but somewhere, someone surely liked a bonded 62gr bullet with a .3+ G1 BC, considering how poor the BC is on the Nosler 64gr (in the .1X region) and the TBBC (low .2's) is.

[Alpha Sierra]

Since SOST was adopted Federal dropped the Trophy Bearclaw round - and the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw.

SOST is not a bonded bullet - though I understand one was looked at.

Closest I think you can get to a bonded 'SOST' is the Federal F223FS1 62gr loading. Using the Fusion bullet.

Off the shelf, yes.

Reloaders have more options to equal, or at least closely approximate, MK318.

[Alpha Sierra]

I thought Federal had an FBI contract to supply XM556FBIT3?

I simply don't understand why a bonded SOST was tested, performed better, and now it's off the radar. I understand if JAG prevented it from being fielded like SOST, but somewhere, someone surely liked a bonded 62gr bullet with a .3+ G1 BC, considering how poor the BC is on the Nosler 64gr (in the .1X region) and the TBBC (low .2's) is.

There are several all-copper heavily penetrating hunting bullets from Hornady and Barnes that would be very viable in the same application as SOST. Their terminal behavior should be very very close through the same barriers.

[Chuck Haggard]

Pretty sure that Federal still has the Bonded in their LE line;

http://le.atk.com/ammunition/federal/rifle/default.aspx

[DocGKR]

62 gr TBBC LE223T3 and XM556FBIT3 are still available and widely used--both significantly outperform Mk318.

The original Federal 77 gr TOTM developed for the USMC in 2006 was essentially a bonded SOST. It is an OUTSTANDING performing load as shown on pg. 12 of this briefing: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf. It was not adopted by the military for very stupid reasons that had nothing to do with JAG or the Hague--more like bureaucratic ineptitude and ignorant requirements documents--you can't make this unbelievably incompetent shit up...

After the USMC dropped the ball on TOTM, Crane took the design and ran with it, issuing the non-bonded Mk318 and Mk319. If military end-users could enlighten their requirements folks, there is NO reason a bonded SOST version could not still be adopted.

[j.d.allen]

62 gr TBBC LE223T3 and XM556FBIT3 are still available and widely used--both significantly outperform Mk318.

I just wish I could find that stuff for less than almost $2 a round...

[jstone]

The totm round would be exactly what I have always wanted in a .224 bullet. I would give a kidney to get a hold of 10k of those totm bullets.

Jd allen the tbbc bullets were close to a dollar a piece when available as components, and the 62 was never sold unless you can find them being sold as pulls. If you reload there is a guy named stump70 on barf.com, and m4c.com, and he sells pulled bullets. He almost always has barrier blind bullets. Right now he is selling mk318 pulls. I bought 1000 62 tbbc pulls from him for 15.4 cents a piece.

I gain nothing by telling you about stump70. I personally do not know him, I am just a happy customer. I wanted to pass the info on. If you reload that gives you a very affordable way to get a very high end bullet for a good price.

Also to NH shooter if you pull some 855 bullets, and just load the 64 bonded solid base or 62 tbbc. You can neck size if you want, but dont throw out the powder. Its called mexican match loading. It is an old technique to get match ammo out of old surplus ammo. The only difference is they would use a match bullet, and in this case your just using a defense bullet. You can get a more accurate load with the cfe 223, but for hd you dont need sub moa. If you want to use the cfe 223 the best accuracy is .1 below to .1 over max load listed in the nosler #7. Which is 26.0 grains. I load 25.9 of cfe 223 with rem 7.5 primer in lake city cases.

[NH Shooter]

Also to NH shooter if you pull some 855 bullets, and just load the 64 bonded solid base or 62 tbbc. You can neck size if you want, but dont throw out the powder. Its called mexican match loading. It is an old technique to get match ammo out of old surplus ammo. The only difference is they would use a match bullet, and in this case your just using a defense bullet. You can get a more accurate load with the cfe 223, but for hd you dont need sub moa. If you want to use the cfe 223 the best accuracy is .1 below to .1 over max load listed in the nosler #7. Which is 26.0 grains. I load 25.9 of cfe 223 with rem 7.5 primer in lake city cases.

jstone, thanks!

[Molon]

Also to NH shooter if you pull some 855 bullets, and just load the 64 bonded solid base or 62 tbbc. You can neck size if you want, but dont throw out the powder. Its called mexican match loading.



This is EXTREMELY BAD ADVICE. The bonded solid base bullets such as the Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and Nosler BSB do not exhibit the same interior ballistic characteristics as conventional copper-jacketed lead-core bullets and as such do not follow the same pressure curves as conventional bullets.

Using high powder charges intended for copper-jacketed lead-core bullets with bonded solid base bullets of the same weight can result in excessive and rapidly escalating chamber pressures. Anyone engaging in this foolish practice with bonded solid base bullets is begging for Mr. Murphy to pay a visit.

[NH Shooter]

Molon, my intention is to adjust/replace the powder charge with something from the Nosler load data for the 64 grain bullet. Since I would be dumping the powder anyway to resize the neck, my plan is to replace it with a known powder at an appropriate charge weight.

[jstone]

I have shot this combination out of many rifles, and have not encountered any problems. Mexican match loading has been done for years. I do understand what you are saying about the difference in construction. Speer even says not to use standard load data for the tbbc, and nosler lists the bsb seperately for a reason.

When I began to experiment with replacing the bsb, and tbbc in m855 I backed the charge off by a little less than 10%. I dropped it by 2 grains, and worked up to max progressively. When checking for pressure signs there have been none. The only reason I backed off the charge to start was because all other loading I have done like this is with 30-06 surplus. Replacing the fmj with a sierra matchking, nosler bt, or nosler accubond.

Your testing is always great, and im not saying you are wrong. I should have went into greater detail. I just brain farted it while responding. I do know that if I had encountered problems I would not have recommended it. If you would like to test it for yourself I would gladly send you all the components to work up, and see if you encounter pressure problems. I can even send you the same lot of m855. I also put in the info about the cfe223, because I understand that some may not be comfortable with the mexican match reloading.

The only reason i do this for 223/556 is for defensive loads. I like to have a crimped primer, and factory loads with the 64bsb or 62 tbbc are well over a dollar a round usually closer to 2. One of these days I might loose an eye, but I try to do everything safely. I am serious about the offer to I will send you enough to test and see if there are any pressure signs. You do not even have to post what you find.

[jstone]

I forgot to add this and it wont let me edit for some reason.

A small amount of the nosler bonded solid bases were released as seconds before they made them available to reloaders as a catalog item. When I contacted nosler they said to use data for any 62 to 69 grain bullet. They said the best substitute would be sierras 63 soft point. Which is a standard cup and core bullet.

[Morbidbattlecry]

I just wish I could find that stuff for less than almost $2 a round...

I wish i could find any of it.

[Unobtanium]

M855, M193, MK318, SOCOM Browntip.

Factory loaded is the only way I will go. Hate all you want, I've always had them go "bang", and at just the right volume!

[Unobtanium]

62 gr TBBC LE223T3 and XM556FBIT3 are still available and widely used--both significantly outperform Mk318.

My issue was with accuracy. XM556FBIT3 shot worse than MK318 for me. Also, the exposed lead tip, I believe you said a while back that this caused reliability issues in a few hundred rounds. MK318 doesn't have that draw-back.

The original Federal 77 gr TOTM developed for the USMC in 2006 was essentially a bonded SOST. It is an OUTSTANDING performing load as shown on pg. 12 of this briefing: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf. It was not adopted by the military for very stupid reasons that had nothing to do with JAG or the Hague--more like bureaucratic ineptitude and ignorant requirements documents--you can't make this unbelievably incompetent shit up...
I don't know the reasons...but it was invented. It was created. Someone, somewhere, has some. Someone tooled up and made some. They CAN be had. I just don't have the relationships forged to have them. I hope someone who does makes it happen. Group buy?

After the USMC dropped the ball on TOTM, Crane took the design and ran with it, issuing the non-bonded Mk318 and Mk319. If military end-users could enlighten their requirements folks, there is NO reason a bonded SOST version could not still be adopted.
A bonded SOST would be amazing. More accurate and with a great BC for longer range hunters than the current offerings. Any BC will work for police-work around cars, my angle is...what about hog/deer hunters, etc. who want an amazing hunting bullet, or ICE, who sets 200m expansion thresholds for their ammo out of SBR's, etc. etc.