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Lyonsgrid
10-02-2014, 09:50 AM
Just got my first revolver, a 2” 64-4. What’s old is new again for me. I won’t pretend, I’m a wheel gun rookie but I have a goal. I want to be proficient and spec it out for AIWB carry. I’m all about function and speed over looks. What are considered the standard for grips on a fighting K frame? What about bobbing the hammer, any tips? Holsters, point me in the right direction for AIWB.
Also, any good books or videos that are a must for the serious defensive revolver shooter?

Chuck Haggard
10-02-2014, 10:11 AM
Grips are completely personal, so many for the K frames I don't even know where to begin.

Bobbing the hammer is something I recommend, I also like making the gun DAO but not everyone agrees with that

Malamute
10-02-2014, 10:35 AM
One of the simple things to keep in mind, be sure the area under the extractor star is clean. The recess in the cylinder, and the underside of the star. Toothbrush is perfect.

I've found that ejecting empties with the muzzle straight up, and a sharp slap on the rod with the right hand, seems to keep crud from accumulating under the star.

TCinVA
10-02-2014, 10:49 AM
If you're serious about carrying a revolver, you're going to want to look at options for carrying a reload PDQ.

JonInWA
10-02-2014, 11:28 AM
This book I unhesitatingly recommend as a great starting point:

http://www.amazon.com/Digest-Book-Revolver-Grant-Cunningham/dp/1440218129

Best, Jon

Robinson
10-02-2014, 11:31 AM
What Chuck Haggard said about the grips is the truth. People who have been shooting/carrying revolvers a while start to know the different types available out there but if you are starting out it might seem like too many options to deal with. Start thinking about the size of the grip -- do you want a boot grip that is easy to conceal but may not allow all of your fingers to wrap solidly around it or a larger grip that is easier to shoot with but more difficult to conceal? Then there is the material -- sometimes wood is better for concealment than rubber because it doesn't "grab" clothing and print as bad. But rubber can be more comfortable to shoot, especially on a snubby. Smooth grip surface or checkered? How much do you care about appearance vs. pure function?

Some brands to research:

Ahrends
Hogue
Eagle
Altamont
VZ
Pachmayr
Uncle Mike's (no longer made but really nice rubber grips you can still find on eBay and other places sometimes)
S&W original factory wood stocks (also getting harder to find, and getting pricey)
Spegel
Nill ($$$)
Kieth Brown ($$$$)
... probably some others

Lyonsgrid
10-02-2014, 12:46 PM
Grips are completely personal, so many for the K frames I don't even know where to begin.

Bobbing the hammer is something I recommend, I also like making the gun DAO but not everyone agrees with that

The grip options are endless for sure. I'm leaning towards the more compact rubber style. Not real keen on the smooth wood stocks. Are factory DAO hammers still out there? I'm sure one will have to be "fitted."

Malamute
10-02-2014, 01:00 PM
The grip options are endless for sure. I'm leaning towards the more compact rubber style. Not real keen on the smooth wood stocks. Are factory DAO hammers still out there? I'm sure one will have to be "fitted."

I haven't done tons of them, but I've had pretty good luck swapping Smith triggers and hammers, so long as they have already been fitted to another gun (not a brand new/never been fitted one). I've had one trigger that didn't want to swap, which was a shame, it had beautiful color case hardening, and I was selling the gun.

As to reloads, I've used both the HKS and Safariland speedloaders. Both can go bad, they should be checked regularly for function. They should be considered expendable and tossed at the first sign of trouble. The HKS have worn on the points under the rims, locking up the loader when I tried to release the rounds, and have had them lose the ball that locks the knob in position. The Safariland comp 1 in 44 has started leaking rounds when worn in a split six type belt carrier, and I've had a couple in 44 and j frame that wouldn't release the rounds when I tried, even with a tremendous amount of force. The worked later when I tried them. Weird.

okie john
10-02-2014, 01:10 PM
Just got my first revolver, a 2” 64-4. What’s old is new again for me. I won’t pretend, I’m a wheel gun rookie but I have a goal. I want to be proficient and spec it out for AIWB carry. I’m all about function and speed over looks. What are considered the standard for grips on a fighting K frame? What about bobbing the hammer, any tips? Holsters, point me in the right direction for AIWB.
Also, any good books or videos that are a must for the serious defensive revolver shooter?

I grew up on revolvers, but I'm an auto guy now. For the time being, shoot your revolver as is. Lots of guys won lots of gunfights with stock K-frame 38's, and you won't be significantly behind the curve with a stock gun.

As for stocks, there is no standard for the K-frame. Too many different things work for too many different people, from Herret's Bill Jordan stocks (which are HUGE) to my preference of the smaller Magna stocks with either a Tyler T-Grip or a Pachmayr grip adapter.

You can bob the hammer easily with a Dremel, but K-frame parts are going to get hard to find at some point and you don't want to alter your revolver if you decide to sell it later. If you decide to bob the hammer, let me know--I have a bobbed stainless K-frame hammer and I could send it your way.

Is your gun round-butt or square-butt?


Okie John

RevolverRob
10-02-2014, 01:22 PM
Stocks are purely personal. I hate sticky rubber stocks, they just stick to clothing and don't allow you to reposition your grip, if you don't get the grip you want after reloading. If I need extra grip, grip tape, not rubber. But to each their own. In my opinion straight up magnas + tyler t-grip is still usually the ultimate in concealment and functionality. After that the grips that basically mimic that style VZ 320s or Spegel/Ahrends boot grips for instance are my next choice. But basically the revolver stock situation is whatever fits your hands best. If you've got monster hands, closed backstraps will be better, if you're small/medium sized, you might want an open backstrap. A 64 isn't going to be unpleasant to shoot with anything except super hot Buffalo Bore 158-grain LSWCHP +P rounds, those might hurt a bit. Not enough to warrant going with rubber over wood and giving up the extra concealment wood gives you, in my opinion.

okie john
10-02-2014, 02:07 PM
Stocks are purely personal. I hate sticky rubber stocks, they just stick to clothing and don't allow you to reposition your grip, if you don't get the grip you want after reloading. If I need extra grip, grip tape, not rubber. But to each their own. In my opinion straight up magnas + tyler t-grip is still usually the ultimate in concealment and functionality. After that the grips that basically mimic that style VZ 320s or Spegel/Ahrends boot grips for instance are my next choice. But basically the revolver stock situation is whatever fits your hands best. If you've got monster hands, closed backstraps will be better, if you're small/medium sized, you might want an open backstrap. A 64 isn't going to be unpleasant to shoot with anything except super hot Buffalo Bore 158-grain LSWCHP +P rounds, those might hurt a bit. Not enough to warrant going with rubber over wood and giving up the extra concealment wood gives you, in my opinion.

Much wisdom here.


Okie John

KevH
10-02-2014, 04:39 PM
My personal choice in grips are either stock Magnas or wood Hogue grips. Grips are a very personal choice.

Most competent revolver smith's can bob a hammer for you.

"The Snubby Revolver" by Ed Lovette is a pretty good place to start.

45dotACP
10-02-2014, 04:48 PM
Got to fondle a 2" model 10 today...frame is the same size and everything as my 4" model 64 so I don't see it being a lot more concealable. Rob speaks the truth about stocks (not grips). I'd get something in wood, or try the Tyler adapter and see where that gets you...

Hizzie
10-02-2014, 05:06 PM
Craig Spegel boot grips or the old Uncle Mikes rubber copy that Craig designed. Precision Gun Specialty grips get good reviews.

JM Kydex is a proven option. I have a Dark Star Gear enroute to try as well.

Book: The Snubby Revolver by Ed Lovette.

Dagga Boy
10-02-2014, 05:57 PM
Make sure to ignore stuff in the Lovette book about the Strasburg Tests and other assorted nonsense. Good reference on some stuff, but some pure fiction as well.

Grips like sights are very personal. My grip box is like the holster box.

camsdaddy
10-02-2014, 06:59 PM
I have pachmayer compacts on my 3" 65. I have a holster ordered from jm kydex and I expect it mid month.

LSP972
10-03-2014, 06:40 AM
Make sure to ignore stuff in the Lovette book about the Strasburg Tests and other assorted nonsense.

Yeah; that ruined the whole book for me.

That, and the fact that he was a card-carrying member of Christians In Action…


.

Wheeler
10-03-2014, 08:39 AM
Yeah; that ruined the whole book for me.

That, and the fact that he was a card-carrying member of Christians In Action…


.

My curiosity is piqued. What's wrong with Christians In Action? Google didn't turn up anything glaringly obvious.

Wondering Beard
10-03-2014, 12:56 PM
My curiosity is piqued. What's wrong with Christians In Action? Google didn't turn up anything glaringly obvious.

I believe he refers to the acronym. Christians In Action = CIA

LSP972
10-03-2014, 01:00 PM
I believe he refers to the acronym. Christians In Action = CIA

Yup.

.

Hizzie
10-03-2014, 01:52 PM
Yeah; that ruined the whole book for me.

That, and the fact that he was a card-carrying member of Christians In Action…


.

I like the way he suggests running the gun. The other stuff I easily ignored. Now Grant Cunningham's two revolvers books I couldn't finish. The constant references to Rob Pinchus and Combat Focus just shut my brain off.

jetfire
10-03-2014, 02:26 PM
I go through revo grips all the time; I really like the Crimson Trace grips but they are so huge in the boot that they can compromise concealment.

On the topic of bobbing hammers and DAO conversions - of late, I've come around to the position of not bobbing the hammer but instead cutting the SA notch off the hammer to make the gun DAO with a hammer spur. This lets you use the hammer spur to check your carry ammo for high primers.

LSP972
10-03-2014, 03:04 PM
Now Grant Cunningham's two revolvers books I couldn't finish.

Well, he specializes in Colt revolvers… so what did you expect???:D

Seriously, I have one of his e-books in the que on my Kindle. I've only heard of this Pincus fellow (and not much of it positive, at that).

Combat Focus? Is that anything like Center Axis Re-Lock?;)

.

rsa-otc
10-03-2014, 03:21 PM
I go through revo grips all the time; I really like the Crimson Trace grips but they are so huge in the boot that they can compromise concealment.

On the topic of bobbing hammers and DAO conversions - of late, I've come around to the position of not bobbing the hammer but instead cutting the SA notch off the hammer to make the gun DAO with a hammer spur. This lets you use the hammer spur to check your carry ammo for high primers.

For revolver grips I default to the nearly indestructible Houge Nylon Monogrip or since my forearm issues Pachmayr soft rubber Grippers.

Caleb I never consciously considered using the spur for that purpose but good thought. I favor leaving the spur on for greater holster options. My duty holsters are all thumb break and by leaving the spur on I don't have to special order a holster.

Tamara
10-03-2014, 05:24 PM
Craig Spegel boot grips or the old Uncle Mikes rubber copy that Craig designed.

These or Eagle Secret Service stocks are my faves.

re: the OP


Just got my first revolver, a 2” 64-4. I want ... spec it out for AIWB carry.

YMMV, but in my experience, a 2" steel K is a bit top-heavy for IWB carry unless you have a specialized holster with an extreme "tadpole tail" or suchlike to counter the mass of the gun at the beltline and above.

xray 99
10-03-2014, 06:32 PM
I love the wood/checkered Spegel boot grips. Unfortunately, he's not taking new orders.

Lyonsgrid
10-03-2014, 08:20 PM
YMMV, but in my experience, a 2" steel K is a bit top-heavy for IWB carry unless you have a specialized holster with an extreme "tadpole tail" or suchlike to counter the mass of the gun at the beltline and above.

I talked with Tony at JM Custom Kydex today about this very thing. He is going to work on one for me with this in mind.

Hizzie
10-03-2014, 08:39 PM
I love the wood/checkered Spegel boot grips. Unfortunately, he's not taking new orders.



Novaks carries them.

Tamara
10-03-2014, 09:13 PM
I talked with Tony at JM Custom Kydex today about this very thing. He is going to work on one for me with this in mind.

Groovy. :cool:

Dagga Boy
10-03-2014, 09:20 PM
I love the wood/checkered Spegel boot grips. Unfortunately, he's not taking new orders.

I just got a set of of fitted checkered wood extended boot grips for my 520......so Tam could hate me. I tried ordering a set of Panamanian Cocobolo's for another gun and I was told I would have to wait. I really want a set of those from him.

Tamara
10-03-2014, 09:23 PM
I just got a set of of fitted checkered wood extended boot grips for my 520......so Tam could hate me.

It's working. :p

Hizzie
10-04-2014, 01:19 PM
Well, he specializes in Colt revolvers… so what did you expect???:D

.

Actually he does amazing work on Rugers which is what drew me to his writings.

LSP972
10-04-2014, 02:25 PM
Actually he does amazing work on Rugers which is what drew me to his writings.

Actually, I know he's very good; regardless of what he's working on.

It was a joke; he is one of the very few competent Colt revolver mechanics left.

.

Totem Polar
10-04-2014, 03:26 PM
^^^Sort of. I've been trying to get custom work done by him since roughly 2007. I've been on his list for years (2009 or 2010, IIRC). Fact is, many of these top smiths are taking on less and less work.

To the OP: I am no great SME by any stretch, but I do love my K-frames.

Re: holsters, Elmer MacEvoy at the leather arsenal will make an old-school holster for a K-frame that has a fin at the bottom to keep things in place. You can find his contact info on facebook (pic attached).

Re: reloads, I am a big fan of the "stressfire" reload method, as promulgated by Ayoob. I know he's currently not as en vogue as during yesteryear, what with all the ops guys hanging shingles, but I have yet to find a speedload method for full-sized revolvers that's faster. I have more than once been the only wheelie shooter in a class full of autos, and mostly kept pace, so I'm personally sold--at least for me. OMMV.

Re: speedloaders, I am an HKS fan. Re: pouches, Andrews custom leather split over the belt carriers with thumb break is one good option (also see pic).

Re: ancient knowledge: the old caliber press book "street survival" has one of the only valid discussions of one-handed reloading of a revolver that I've seen in print (other info in the same chapter can be a bit dated). The other is the above mentioned Grant Cunningham books (eg. ch 9 of the gun digest book of the revolver).

Re: ammo, either follow every post under the sun here, or stock up on Remington's version of the FBI load (or Speer's 135 gr +P GDHP) and call it good.

Re: grips, all my Ks have either stock (heh) panels with a Tyler T-grip (the original recipe skinny model 12 seems to work better with the J-sized Tyler, as a point of trivia) or the Uncle Mike's boot grips mentioned earlier in this thread; now unfortunately only found pre owned on ebay. I've laid in a stock of them in round butt configuration myself. The one exception is my 65-3, because I occasionally unleash a few cylinders of 145 gr Silvertip .357s from that gun; it's currently got a Pachmayr compac grip because, physics.

Re: DAO, yes... hell yes.

Re: your first K-frame, not for long... :)

2644

Hizzie
10-04-2014, 04:15 PM
Sideshooter-

I gleaned quite a bit from those old school resources. Porn staches, mutton chops and dump pouches.

Totem Polar
10-04-2014, 04:27 PM
^^^Sounds like D Bolke... :D

Lyonsgrid
10-04-2014, 05:52 PM
Sidheshooter- Thanks for the tips, I have lots to learn for sure. Any good links to vids showing old school revolver shooting is all it's glory?

RevolverRob
10-04-2014, 07:35 PM
I like the way he suggests running the gun. The other stuff I easily ignored. Now Grant Cunningham's two revolvers books I couldn't finish. The constant references to Rob Pinchus and Combat Focus just shut my brain off.

So I admit, I've long been a fan of Grant and his writings. If nothing else, I think Grant is a guy who understands critical thinking. Obviously, he is a follower of Pincus, but my impression from talking with Grant is he is open to ideas from many, he just happens to find Pincus's teachings compelling, to each their own.

His books are well researched and extensions of a career building custom revolvers, the man has a lot of experience making wheel guns run and is, as near as I can tell, about the only Colt-smith left alive (Bill Laughridge is the other). I really wish he'd write a book on smithing Colt revolvers, before he gets too old and information gets lost. It may be the last work on those guns before that knowledge is lost.


^^^Sort of. I've been trying to get custom work done by him since roughly 2007. I've been on his list for years (2009 or 2010, IIRC). Fact is, many of these top smiths are taking on less and less work.

To the OP: I am no great SME by any stretch, but I do love my K-frames.

Re: holsters, Elmer MacEvoy at the leather arsenal will make an old-school holster for a K-frame that has a fin at the bottom to keep things in place. You can find his contact info on facebook (pic attached).

Re: reloads, I am a big fan of the "stressfire" reload method, as promulgated by Ayoob. I know he's currently not as en vogue as during yesteryear, what with all the ops guys hanging shingles, but I have yet to find a speedload method for full-sized revolvers that's faster. I have more than once been the only wheelie shooter in a class full of autos, and mostly kept pace, so I'm personally sold--at least for me. OMMV.

Re: speedloaders, I am an HKS fan. Re: pouches, Andrews custom leather split over the belt carriers with thumb break is one good option (also see pic).

Re: ancient knowledge: the old caliber press book "street survival" has one of the only valid discussions of one-handed reloading of a revolver that I've seen in print (other info in the same chapter can be a bit dated). The other is the above mentioned Grant Cunningham books (eg. ch 9 of the gun digest book of the revolver).

Re: ammo, either follow every post under the sun here, or stock up on Remington's version of the FBI load (or Speer's 135 gr +P GDHP) and call it good.

Re: grips, all my Ks have either stock (heh) panels with a Tyler T-grip (the original recipe skinny model 12 seems to work better with the J-sized Tyler, as a point of trivia) or the Uncle Mike's boot grips mentioned earlier in this thread; now unfortunately only found pre owned on ebay. I've laid in a stock of them in round butt configuration myself. The one exception is my 65-3, because I occasionally unleash a few cylinders of 145 gr Silvertip .357s from that gun; it's currently got a Pachmayr compac grip because, physics.

Re: DAO, yes... hell yes.

Re: your first K-frame, not for long... :)

2644

Gorgeous holster! Thanks for recommendation AND the book recommendation!

-Rob

Dagga Boy
10-04-2014, 09:59 PM
^^^Sounds like D Bolke... :D

Porn staches and speed loaders....saps and maglites in my era. Just past mutton chops and dump pouches. Most know I am far from a fan of Ayoob on many things. With that said I am a big fan if the "Stressfire" reload.

JJN
10-04-2014, 10:09 PM
Not a whole lot to add, but two things from my time shooting quasi-IDPA with a Model 10. The Hogue nylon grip can go on a belt sander for a serious speed loader relief cut. For my average-sized hands, a week-handed reload worked just fine on J and K-frames. DeBethancourt at snub training.com has good videos on that. Faster than stress fire method for sure.
Jon

Totem Polar
10-05-2014, 01:43 AM
Faster than stress fire method for sure.
Jon
Probably open to debate; probably subject to circumstances. But whatever works; we all are responsible for getting our own rounds in our own cylinders.

Hizzie
10-05-2014, 05:38 AM
My preference is to not juggle the revolver like a Ringling Brothers clown.

rsa-otc
10-05-2014, 07:11 AM
Sidheshooter has the right idea you must find what works for you. The absolute fastest method in many people's opinions including mine is the old FBI reload. It's the reload method Jerry Miculek used when he set his records in 1999. By switching hands and using your left hand thumb to eject the spent casings while you reach for the speed loader with your right hand lets you do 2 things at once, something no other method allows for. Unfortunately there are some issues number one being the fumble factor with your left hand thumb. There are times you just miss hitting the relatively small end of the ejector rod with the small surface of the pad of the thumb. I've seen people under stress myself included take several swipes at the ejector rod before hitting it. Secondly and probably more importantly people at speed will forget to release the ejector rod before turning the gun over, this is the biggest reason people end up with cases under the extractor. Also if the case is stubborn in coming free of the chamber because of accumulated dirt or an over charge of powder your thumb may not be strong enough to eject the rounds. Lastly your left fingers as they enter the frame while changing hands can come in contact with the hot forcing cone. On my own (I am probably not the first person to come up with this solution) to counter the first three problems in the early 80's I switched to striking the ejector with my right hand palm. I refer to this method as the modified FBI reload. You lose the advantages of doing two things at once but gain using a large surface area of the palm to contact the small end of the extractor rod, the mass of a larger object moving at speed to dislodge stubborn cases and most importantly when you remove your right hand after striking the ejector to get your reloads the rod is without thought released before you turn the gun over allowing all the cases to fall free. . This is my goto method when teaching the non shooting enthusiast. They seem to grasp the concepts better and retain them.

I am with DB and am a fan of the Ayobb Stress Fire method. It eliminates most of the issues discussed above. I used it exclusively for about a decade until I modified it a bit by grasping around the cylinder instead of allowing the ejector rod to slide up between the fingers. The one weakness I have encountered with the Stress Fire reloads is that people will not allow the ejector rod to release forward before turning the gun over ending up with spent cases under the extractor. By grabbing around the cylinder after ejection the ejector rod is free to release without my having to allow it to. I am 6' 4" with 37 inch arms and XXlarge hands. Using the grab around the cylinder method allows me to hold things such as a flashlight (even D cell mag lights) in my hand while performing the reload. This "For Me" is the biggest advantage of using the modified Stress Fire reload. I have used this method successfully under stress without fumbling the gun or the light.

My problem with weak hand reloads is that I don't get a straight shot at the cylinder with the reloads. By holding the reload in my right hand the live rounds are lined up the bones of my forearm and I have a straight line access to the Chambers in the cylinder. I find it easier to line the rounds up with the chambers this way. I also don't by the not buy the breaking your grip reasoning as well. When you move your thumb out of the way to give clear access to the cylinder you've broke your grip, at least for my overly large hands it is.

YMMV you need to find what works best "For You".

Wheeler
10-05-2014, 08:23 AM
Sidheshooter has the right idea you must find what works for you. The absolute fastest method in many people's opinions including mine is the old FBI reload. It's the reload method Jerry Miculek used when he set his records in 1999. By switching hands and using your left hand thumb to eject the spent casings while you reach for the speed loader with your right hand lets you do 2 things at once, something no other method allows for.

Unless one is left handed, then none of the mentioned methods really apply. Something most instructors neglect to take into account.

rsa-otc
10-05-2014, 08:45 AM
Unless one is left handed, then none of the mentioned methods really apply. Something most instructors neglect to take into account.

Didn't have time this morning to layout the left hand versions. My bad for not saying so. I do have left handed options for everything but weak hand reloads. Since they don't work for me I have not extensively pursued a work around for the problem of the open cylinder being on the opposite side of the gun for a person who is left handed and wants to do a weak hand reload. If and when I get time I'll flesh out my left hand reloads in a new thread so it will be more easily searched for.

RevolverRob
10-05-2014, 11:10 AM
FYI for those not in the know.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oXUwI_d8JlA Stressfire

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g4_Bv8PCDEI Clint Smith demonstrates a "universal revolver reload". this is the method I use.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sjRTdXvjBmE De Bethencourt snub reload.

Hizzie
10-05-2014, 12:41 PM
My reload looks a lot like De Bethencourt's. I'm better looking though.

BN
10-05-2014, 05:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgvCGcD-FAg

Gamer competition reload. ;)

Lon
10-05-2014, 06:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgvCGcD-FAg

Gamer competition reload. ;)

That's what I do.

jetfire
10-06-2014, 09:32 AM
http://youtu.be/f0FsPOp9BUg

Under 2.5 from concealment (in dry fire). Gamer competition reload for sure, but I can absolutely touch that time in live fire as well. I've since move my pouches from my strong side to my weak side, just forward of the hip.

To answer RSA's comment from two pages back, I started thinking about keeping the hammer spurs on my guns after I had a bad moonclip at a match tie up a gun; if I'd been able to drop test that clip and rotate it in the cylinder by pulling back the hammer spur enough to let the cylinder freewheel, it wouldn't have happened.

RevolverRob
10-06-2014, 09:46 AM
Of course we can all go for a gamer reload:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FbUMqoyjDw

I essentially run modified Clint Smith/Jerry M, where I pull the gun in more than Clint, but much less than Jerry. I get the gun in to about press-out position, run my reload, and then press it back out. Most recently, I was working with the thumb on ejector rod to get the hands on the speedloader faster, but I like the really positive ejection aspects of inverting the gun fully and spanking the ejector rod with the flat of the hand. The only time I've gotten spent casings under an ejector star was when using the thumb to run the ejector rod.

ETA: Running the "Universal" revolver reload, I was consistently 3.1 seconds from concealment. I wasn't terribly happy with the speed, but felt I could justify being a bit slower there, to making sure I kept from tying up my gun.

rsa-otc
10-06-2014, 02:58 PM
http://youtu.be/f0FsPOp9BUg

Under 2.5 from concealment (in dry fire). Gamer competition reload for sure, but I can absolutely touch that time in live fire as well. I've since move my pouches from my strong side to my weak side, just forward of the hip.

To answer RSA's comment from two pages back, I started thinking about keeping the hammer spurs on my guns after I had a bad moonclip at a match tie up a gun; if I'd been able to drop test that clip and rotate it in the cylinder by pulling back the hammer spur enough to let the cylinder freewheel, it wouldn't have happened.

Caleb; is that you "can't" or "Torch" in live fire?

jetfire
10-06-2014, 03:03 PM
I can and have gotten sub 2.5s from concealment in live fire. My current live fire PR is a 2.21 from concealment. That's shot to shot to a wide open target at 3 yards.

rsa-otc
10-06-2014, 03:12 PM
Here's my Modified Stress Fire Reload.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkNplKmlMJU

Draw to shot was 1.75 which is slow for me I'm usually in the 1.60 second range in those circumstances.
First Reload was 2.99
2nd Reload was 3.43
All the splits were consistently on the .21 to .22/.23

98% of the hits were in the 6" black circle.

The Modified FBI reload I teach is what Clint is referring to as the Universal Revolver Reload but much closer to the belt line similar to Jerry's. I want to force the revolver in a more vertical position when presenting the reload to allow gravity to help the rounds drop into the cylinder.

rsa-otc
10-06-2014, 03:21 PM
http://youtu.be/f0FsPOp9BUg
I've since move my pouches from my strong side to my weak side, just forward of the hip.


Actually I can see the advantage for an open front concealment vest reload running the pouches in that position. It probably provides cleaner access to the pouches since you just dart your hand in behind the vest rather that sweeping your vest out of the way. How does that work within the IDPA rules???

I run my pouches on my duty belt on the right side so I have to give some thought about moving my IDPA pouches to the weak side. I may just have to play with it I my duty belt as well.

jetfire
10-06-2014, 04:07 PM
Actually I can see the advantage for an open front concealment vest reload running the pouches in that position. It probably provides cleaner access to the pouches since you just dart your hand in behind the vest rather that sweeping your vest out of the way. How does that work within the IDPA rules???

I run my pouches on my duty belt on the right side so I have to give some thought about moving my IDPA pouches to the weak side. I may just have to play with it I my duty belt as well.

IDPA says you can have up to two speedloader pouches in front of the holster like I do in the video.

I've actually gotten away from that placement since then, the big problem I'm having is that it's great for the first load, but the 2nd load is all over the place, because I have to reach nearly all the way across my body to get the rounds. I switched both loaders back to my weak side and saw an immediate increase in consistency on the load. I used the weak-hand/weak-side load this year at IDPA Nats and did okay.

rsa-otc
10-06-2014, 04:58 PM
IDPA says you can have up to two speedloader pouches in front of the holster like I do in the video.

I've actually gotten away from that placement since then, the big problem I'm having is that it's great for the first load, but the 2nd load is all over the place, because I have to reach nearly all the way across my body to get the rounds. I switched both loaders back to my weak side and saw an immediate increase in consistency on the load. I used the weak-hand/weak-side load this year at IDPA Nats and did okay.

Second load for me is always a half second slower as evidenced in the video. I was attributing that to a certain amount of fatigue.

I have to review the rules because I thought off side position of the pouches had to be at the hip line or behind. But that could be just for the auto divisions not revolvers.

jetfire
10-06-2014, 05:36 PM
Second load for me is always a half second slower as evidenced in the video. I was attributing that to a certain amount of fatigue.

I have to review the rules because I thought off side position of the pouches had to be at the hip line or behind. But that could be just for the auto divisions not revolvers.

So, revos only are allowed to have pouches forward of the centerline on the strong (holster) side. If I move my pouches to the weak side, they have to be behind the centerline.

Lyonsgrid
10-06-2014, 05:52 PM
Picking the brain of an Officer in my Division who is "old school" and cut his teeth on a wheel. He's been after me for a while to become a real American and get a revolver...he's happy now. So today he brings me some "old school" ammo. He says there are far better carry loads now but wanted to share some vintage stuff.
http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv118/elliott6229/100_1309.jpg (http://s675.photobucket.com/user/elliott6229/media/100_1309.jpg.html)

- My 64-4

http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv118/elliott6229/100_1312.jpg (http://s675.photobucket.com/user/elliott6229/media/100_1312.jpg.html)

Hizzie
10-06-2014, 07:04 PM
Good lookin.

rsa-otc
10-06-2014, 07:08 PM
So, revos only are allowed to have pouches forward of the centerline on the strong (holster) side. If I move my pouches to the weak side, they have to be behind the centerline.

So the pertinent rules seem to be 8.6.3.5 & 8.6.3.6. In 8.6.3.5 the wording is "may be worn" in front of and if within 1 inch of the holster. 8.6.3.6 refers to "additional" loaders located weak side behind the hipline. So is this a gray area allowing your primary loaders to be located weak side in front of the hipline as long as they are concealed by the vest or another garment? Hmmm.

jetfire
10-06-2014, 11:47 PM
Sorry if I've not been clear. IDPA sez that if elect to wear pouches weak side for revolver they must be behind the centerline.

LSP972
10-07-2014, 04:37 AM
Picking the brain of an Officer in my Division who is "old school" and cut his teeth on a wheel. He's been after me for a while to become a real American and get a revolver...he's happy now. So today he brings me some "old school" ammo. He says there are far better carry loads now but wanted to share some vintage stuff.





Holy cow… vintage is certainly the word for that stuff.

See here for a good discussion on what to feed your M-64 snubby.

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13533-Snub-38-ammo-choices-thread-move ([URL=http://s675.photobucket.com/user/elliott6229/media/100_1309.jpg.html]http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv118/elliott6229/100_1309.jpg)

Nice piece, BTW. Pretty much the gold standard for a plain vanilla, work-horse .38 revolver.

.

Lyonsgrid
10-07-2014, 12:39 PM
Nice piece, BTW. Pretty much the gold standard for a plain vanilla, work-horse .38 revolver.

.

Big thanks to Okie John who has me a bobbed hammer inbound.

Lyonsgrid
11-11-2014, 02:21 PM
A lot of good info covered in this thread. I've studied up and have added a spare.

http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv118/elliott6229/100_1352.jpg (http://s675.photobucket.com/user/elliott6229/media/100_1352.jpg.html)

nycnoob
11-11-2014, 03:08 PM
Randy Cain has a two day revolver course next month in FL


http://www.guntactics.com/schedule.htm

Revolver Skills
Dec 8-Dec 9
Lakeland, FL
OPEN

Tamara
11-11-2014, 05:43 PM
I heartily approve. This has been my bedside gat for... heck, about a decade now:

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag421/Tamara_Keel/64_zpsf4f88247.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/Tamara_Keel/media/64_zpsf4f88247.jpg.html)

Dagga Boy
11-11-2014, 06:13 PM
While we are doing pictures......here is my new baby. This thing makes me very happy. It will be getting some VZ grips.

Tamara
11-11-2014, 06:25 PM
Is that a 3" 681?

*sigh*

I had just finished hatin' you and now I gotta start all over again. :D

Lon
11-11-2014, 06:50 PM
Looks like a 3" Ladysmith 65. I have been looking for one for a while. I have a 3" 65, but really wanted the LS version.

Dagga Boy
11-11-2014, 06:52 PM
Nah, I'll take some pictures of the 3" 681 PC gun when I get back from the trip I am on.

No, THAT is a model 65 that it looks like someone sent to the custom shop at Smith for installation of a 3" shrouded barrel. It is essentially a custom Ladysmith that is not a Ladysmith. If you look at the barrel lettering it is unlike anything I have ever seen on a Ladysmith. It has the big SMITH & WESSON lettering on the other side. This and the 3" 66's are about as perfect a K frame as I can find.

okie john
11-11-2014, 11:16 PM
Big thanks to Okie John who has me a bobbed hammer inbound.

Are you running it yet?


Okie John

Joe in PNG
11-12-2014, 06:07 AM
Is that a 3" 681?

*sigh*

I had just finished hatin' you and now I gotta start all over again. :D

We all do, Tam... we all do.

Dagga Boy
11-12-2014, 08:13 AM
We all do, Tam... we all do.

And Victory is mine....Hated by all-Perfect!!!!

Lyonsgrid
11-12-2014, 08:19 AM
Are you running it yet?


Okie John

Yes, both hammers are factory DAO and I had the actions worked.