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View Full Version : Calling the Shot and Front Sight Lift



zRxz
07-20-2011, 03:21 AM
Having spent my fair share of range time, ammunition, and sweat on this, I have come to wonder what exactly we mean by "front sight lift". Personally, I've only experienced seeing the front sight begin to rise in recoil a handful of times. What I usually see is this: I see the front sight "jump" from the sight picture I attained just before the shot broke to its highest point in the recoil cycle, after which I track it back into the rear notch; or, during lowlight, I see the muzzle flash envelope the front sight, and then see it jump, track it down, etc. Am I simply "seeing" slower? To my mind, the recoil "flip" of the muzzle pushes the front sight upwards too fast for the eye to watch it take off. I'm still calling my shots: every time I see that jump, I know the bullet has gone where I had aligned the sights. I just rarely see the beginning of the movement.

Anyone else experience this?

John Ralston
07-20-2011, 09:11 AM
You are indeed seeing "too slow". Your eye sight can be (and likely is) fast enought to see everything in full detail, you just have to practice it for the light to come on. Do a front sight drill, shooting into the berm, where the only objective is to watch the front sight during its entire motion. It may take a few rounds, but you will see it happen. Once you "know" that it can happen, it will become easier to see it during practice sessions. Your subconscious can do things at unbelievable speed, and once that process is controlled by your subconscious, you will see things like never before.

It is like trying to follow a fan blade and singling out one blade while it rotates - it can be done once your eye singles out and starts tracking the blade.

The above was not to imply that you are doing things wrong, but you can probably see more if you want to.

Serpico1985
09-28-2011, 06:38 PM
Figured I would bring this up in a thread already started on the subject.

I have been reading about watching the front sight lift and came across some info on brianenos forum. There they said that it is only necessary to see the front sight lift, not to see the front sight through it's entire range of motion (from shot break to seeing your second sight picture). They also said you should see the front sight return to it's place between the rear sight notch. In summary is this the consensus of this forum when discussing front sight lift? To see it rise and return but not through it's entire range of motion....

Going to the range tomorrow and plan on trying this.

Thanks!

ToddG
09-28-2011, 10:21 PM
Perfect sight tracking means never losing visual contact with the front sight. The number of people who actually accomplish that is probably around 1% of the people who say/think they accomplish it.

At least as I teach it in class, the two important segments are to see the front sight lift at the moment the shot breaks and then to see it coming back down into the notch so you can make the earliest assessment of an adequate sight picture and break the shot as early as possible once you get that adequate sight picture.

JV_
09-29-2011, 05:30 AM
see the front sight lift at the moment the shot breaks and then to see it coming back down into the notchI'm pretty sure I fall in to this category, but to be honest, I'm not 100%. When it comes to some techniques, like sight lift, I find myself saying: I'm not sure what I do ... let me fire a shot and see.

Serpico1985
09-29-2011, 11:15 AM
I tried doing some drills to see the front sight lift. Tried shooting into a berm and half the time could see the brass ejecting, but it didnt translate into seeing the front sight lift. I feel like I'm blinking most of the time. I wonder if squinting would help fight the blink? What about having a shooting buddy stand next to me pull the trigger so I would not anticipate the shot breaking?

Ultimatly I want to get some instruction but want to try to work on it in the mean time.

Thanks for the info Todd, JV feel the same way

Fly320s
09-29-2011, 05:20 PM
Serpico,

Try using ear plugs and muffs together, if you don't already. The reduced noise may help you to not blink. If that doesn't work, you might try shooting a gun that doesn't recoil as much or as fast. A 9mm in a steel frame gun doesn't move much.

ToddG
09-29-2011, 06:18 PM
Blinking isn't caused by the gun's motion, it's caused by the blast of recoil. The best way to get over it is to get used to it. Instead of asking yourself, "Did I see the front sight lift?" instead make seeing the sight lift the goal of the exercise. You're not a passive observer.

The suggestion to double up muffs & plugs is a very good one, too.

Serpico1985
09-29-2011, 10:04 PM
Thanks guys. Will do.

David S.
09-29-2011, 11:44 PM
deleted.

Lomshek
09-30-2011, 12:29 AM
Do a front sight drill, shooting into the berm, where the only objective is to watch the front sight during its entire motion.

When helping new shooters grasp this concept I always start them with my Ruger 22/45 which virtually eliminates blast and minimizes recoil. My intent is to eliminate as many distractions as possible so their mind can concentrate on the front sight. Once they are comfortable I'll add a paper target to the mix and have them do the same thing then try to call the shot as well.

With each additional task the mind is having to do more so this takes a while. It's not unusual to burn through a couple hundred rounds of .22 working through these drills. Any time the shooter is showing fatigue we take a break or call it a day. Once your brain is tired you won't keep learning well and can reinforce bad habits.

David S.
09-30-2011, 12:02 PM
Do you "flinch blink" when the sear/hammer drops during dry fire? If so, you might want to work that out. One thing that I struggle with during dry fire is an eye twitch when the trigger breaks. It's not a full blink, but still very subtle, barely perceptible, eye flinch. I can feel the eye movement, but it's so fast my brain can't doesn't recognize the break in focus. I think that that my little dry fire twitch compounds itself into full blink during live fire.

I'm a total novice here, so take this for what it's worth.