Safes, Vaults, and Other Security Measures

[Jay Cunningham]

I want to start a discussion about the secure storage of firearms that is separate from any type of "home defense" discussion. I'd like this to purely be about the hardware: types of safes, brands of safes, sizes and shapes of safes, locks used, areas where they're located, etc.

I am about to dump some money on a large-ish vault and on something smaller for the bump in the night stuff. I'd like to hear experiences and options - please be sure to include pitfalls and regrets subsequently fixed.

[mnealtx]

I found this site (http://gun-safes.findthebest.com/) mentioned on a blog site just today - it lets you do some basic comparisons between safes.

[Odin Bravo One]

If I could get away with it, I would never buy another safe again. I bought a Liberty 25 gun safe several years ago, knowing to go larger than required as our collections do tend to grow over time. I now have several long guns and a few pistols that flat out can't fit so I end up having to keep them locked up at work when I am gone.

My proposed solution will be to build a walk in vault, in the basement, surrounded on 3 sides by dirt, the fourth side being constructed of reinforced concrete with an inward opening vault door installed, and an outward opening closet door with a cheesy key lock on it. First look will dismiss it as a closet. Get the through the little lock, and you are faced with a vault door. Might pique a booger eaters interest, but not enough to make him instantly smart enough to break into it.

I looked into the various fire protection ratings, etc, as well as the number of active bolts, passive, etc. and after discussing the features extensively with a master locksmith, the reality of the security is that a safe cracker can crack the safe regardless of how many active or passive bolts it has. It makes it tougher to pry it open with more bolts, but not stopping someone who knows what they are doing from getting in. Making sure the safe cannot go anywhere is an important aspect of security, as it forces the boogs to work where they are. They can't call for a change of venue where they have all the time in the world to cut into it.

The fire ratings are all well and good, but if your house burns to the ground, none of the fire ratings can withstand that kind of heat and length of exposure. If the safe can withstand 30-45 min of 1300-1400 degrees, that is honestly about the most you can hope for. Other safes may list higher ratings, but if the fire department doesn't have the flames out within 30-45 minutes, it is not likely they will be able to make enough of a difference that paying for the extra rated minutes was worth it. It simply delayed the inevitable.

My current safe is stashed in a closet and bolted to the floor. I had to take the door and frame apart to get the safe in, and put it back together once it was installed. This makes one have to be able to crack the safe and empty the contents. You cannot un-bolt it without getting into the safe itself, and since it is stuck inside the closet, there is not enough room to generate enough force to push the safe over and break the bolts off, or yank it out. Flip side to that is that there is not enough room to open the door completely either. A slight PITA, but not a deal breaker. I can get everything in or out that I need to without a ton of hassle, but it would be nice to have the door open all the way. Another downside to the closet is that it is tough to get light in there when I am looking for something specific or smaller items. I end up keeping a headlamp on the top of the safe.

I chose a dial lock, with a key that locks the dial. In hindsight, I should have opted for the electronic keypad. I guess either are fine, but the keypad is more user friendly if you are in and out of the safe a lot. The key lock in the dial barely slows down a pro, and there are not a lot of pro's out doing residential burglaries in middle class neighborhoods.

I also bought a door pistol rack from someplace.......Cheaper than Dirt I think. It bolts/screws onto the top of the door, and runs down the inside. It is like nylon coated heavy duty wire or something, and has little detachable single pistol racks so you can configure it to suit your needs. The racks are designed to only hold a single pistol, but I can fit 2 .22LR pistols, and two smaller type pistols, such as a P239 and PM9 in the same rack. I bought the half door version, and should have bought the full length. It was relatively cheap as I recall, and opened up some room for my short rifles and shotguns by not having to use shelves for pistols. I still have to use the top shelf over the short carbines for pistols, but having the door rack gave me both sides of the safe for long guns, and the top shelf for overflow pistols/mags/whatever.

I prefer to keep my safe out sight from the casual observer, and looks are very unimportant to me. If I do end up having to buy another safe someday, I will be looking for cosmetic damaged safes. One of my shooting buddies got a Browning 50 gun safe for just over a grand because the safe was left outside at the place of delivery over a weekend and it rained. There was a good amount of surface rust on it. A wire wheel and some spray paint fixed that, and he drove away with a several thousand dollar safe for 1/5 the price.

[peterb]

Good intro article on firearm storage options:
http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2008/10/safe-storage-of-firearms.html

[Shellback]

Some additional information that may help here (http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html) and here (http://www.chuckhawks.com/buying_gun_safe.htm).

[Shellback]

I've read quite a few good things about the Amsec BF (Burglary & Fire) gun safes and am considering puchasing one now. The one I'm most interested in is the BF6030 (http://www.amsecusa.com/Gun_Safes/BF_Series_Gun_Safes/) due to a nominal price increase from the BF6032 and you get an additional 5" in depth and 130lbs more weight for the bad guys to move.

Does anyone have a company they'd recommend for purchasing safes? Obviously looking for a "happy medium" when it comes to price, customer service, delivery and all other details entailed with purchasing a safe.

[TGS]

This is all good reading, thanks guys.

All I have is one of those cheap $80 gun cabinets and a Nano-safe for when I travel.

With the cabinet, I figure it's sufficient to keep my guns safe from the sort of thieves that break into houses in Trenton, NJ. We're not talking Oceans 12, here, let alone anyone that is actually carrying tools to break into a safe. They're poor people rummaging for cash and jewelry.

I want to get a nice safe that is fire-proof though, since I have some valuable inherited guns and plan to get more in my life. In addition, I plan on "moving up" in life. Building an earthen bunker probably isn't doable since I'll be moving every couple years for who knows how long, and living in places without basements.

Good thread, thanks.

[JodyH]

I have a Liberty Lincoln with the S&G dial combination lock.
I built it into the wall so there is no access to the safe except the door.
It's also secured into the concrete floor with four anchor bolts.
The door is the strongest part of the safe and the more protection you can give to the sides and rear the better off you will be.
One of the criminals favorite tricks is to tip the safe onto its side and hack into it with a firemans axe, like a giant can opener.
Secure it to the floor and protect the sides and you'll be good to go against everybody except the pros, and if the pros are coming to rob you, you're pretty much screwed no matter what safe you have.

[ford.304]

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

So everything I read about safes essentially says that anything under a thousand dollars is crap, and isn't really a safe...

What is the recommendation, then, when your gun collection is only worth about a thousand dollars all told? And you want to grow it, but your planned purchases are still on the cheap side? It seems strange to spend $1500 to protect $1000 worth of stuff, as much as I would really prefer that criminals not be armed by my equipment.

Are any of the RSC's less crap than others? Or are there any proper safes on the low end of things worth getting?

[GardoneVT]

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

So everything I read about safes essentially says that anything under a thousand dollars is crap, and isn't really a safe...

What is the recommendation, then, when your gun collection is only worth about a thousand dollars all told? And you want to grow it, but your planned purchases are still on the cheap side? It seems strange to spend $1500 to protect $1000 worth of stuff, as much as I would really prefer that criminals not be armed by my equipment.

Are any of the RSC's less crap than others? Or are there any proper safes on the low end of things worth getting?


The problem IMO isn't the safes themselves, but the placement.

A $50,000 top of the line safe can be wheeled out of a house just as easily as a $1000 RSC if its not secured to the structure. IMO, discretion in this instance beats hardware. The bad guys cannot steal what they do not know about. Sure, your direct group of friends might be on the up and up, but can you vouch for theirs? I know someone who bought a good safe-I forget the brand- hid it in a closet, and then proceeded to take everyone and their brother shooting.In the process he constantly showed off his safe to strangers.

One day he came home to find his safe cut open with rented tools left at the scene.

No matter what security setup you use, discretion is an absolute requirement.