Daniel Defense Woes

[WDW]

Well, after hearing about the frequency of QC issues that seem to I ocurr with DD guns, I decided to actually sit down & look at mine (haven't had a lot of free time lately). Long story short, I regret not getting another Colt or BCM. The castle nut is not staked in any serious way, the safety detent spring was broken from the factory, the castle nut has some weird discoloration running down the side, the grip screw was almost impossible to remove & then reinstall (threads are prob fucked) again from the factory, & there is a noticeable gap between the trigger guard & grip.

Given how f***** up all these simple things are, I can only imagine how screwed this thing is internally and on a more technical level. I've sent an email w/pics to DD & their rep was pretty dismayed & said she didn't blame me for being upset. She offered to completely replace the gun if I sent it in (which I am).

I know this is completely my fault for accepting this thing, but frankly at the FFL I was in a huge hurry & did a quick look over with a basic function check. Hopefully they can sort this out.

[breakingtime91]

man im sorry to hear that. Makes me view their carbines in a different light. Really the only guns I see recommended right now are bcm, colt, kac, noveske, and smith.

[LittleLebowski]

Post pics?

[Pennzoil]

Sucks to hear this but give them a call and they'll make it right.

Long story but I parked my truck on my DD upper and rode it down side of a step hill/mountain messing it up pretty good. If I recall they paid shipping both ways knowing it was my fault and had the upper back to me ASAP so I could use it for the rest of my hunt.

[Sheep Have Wool]

Sucks to hear this but give them a call and they'll make it right.

Long story but I parked my truck on my DD upper and rode it down side of a step hill/mountain messing it up pretty good. If I recall they paid shipping both ways knowing it was my fault and had the upper back to me ASAP so I could use it for the rest of my hunt.

Great CS =/= Great QC.

I've been looking at getting an AR, and DD was on my list. This post - and a couple others on other sites about their rifles recently - have been making me leery, and leading me into the "I'm willing to spend stupid money on this rifle, just so I don't have to worry about it" territory.

[MD7305]

Back when the DDM4 was initially introduced (2009?) I picked up one of the first ones and it had a couple of issues, mostly tolerance stacking involving the lower and safety. They propmtly replaced it with a new one in short order. The carbine otherwise was fine. Earlier this summer I got a URG from G&R and it's been great. No flaws to speak of, runs like a top. Hope it works out in your favor!

[WDW]

Post pics?

I will when I get home & get a few minutes.

[WDW]

Great CS =/= Great QC.

I've been looking at getting an AR, and DD was on my list. This post - and a couple others on other sites about their rifles recently - have been making me leery, and leading me into the "I'm willing to spend stupid money on this rifle, just so I don't have to worry about it" territory.
I'd get a colt or BCM. I have multiple examples of both, and while I know any gun can have issues, I personally have never had an issue out of either of those 2 brands. It was a toss between the DD & another BCM & I deeply regret, rue, & lament my choice.

[Unobtanium]

Like I said in another thread...

Their barrels are still the best around at any price, imo, in their class (hard use non precision)

[WDW]

Like I said in another thread...

Their barrels are still the best around at any price, imo, in their class (hard use non precision)

Well, maybe I'll keep the upper. That lowers gotta go though. I don't care if they do fix it. I've got a bad taste in my mouth only a rampant colt can fix.

[Mntneer357]

man im sorry to hear that. Makes me view their carbines in a different light. Really the only guns I see recommended right now are bcm, colt, kac, noveske, and smith.

Not to hijack the OP's thread, but I was looking pretty hard at a DD as a prospective purchase. Also considering a Colt and have heard very good things about Barnes Precision Machine ARs. Can anyone confirm *if* Barnes Precision is on par with Colt?

Thank you all for your time and your guidance.

Cheers!
Mntneer357

[DocGKR]

Which vendors have contracts with government entities and use the TDP--that is a good clue...

[LittleLebowski]

Not to hijack the OP's thread, but I was looking pretty hard at a DD as a prospective purchase. Also considering a Colt and have heard very good things about Barnes Precision Machine ARs. Can anyone confirm *if* Barnes Precision is on par with Colt?

Thank you all for your time and your guidance.

Cheers!
Mntneer357

I doubt anyone will be able to confirm this. Please let us know if you find out anything on this. Personally, I'd just buy a BCM.

[ReverendMeat]

Personally, I'd just buy a BCM.

I hate to be that type of guy who only recommends his personal favorite brand of kool-aid as the be all, end all but I gotta go with BCM too. They offer many uppers in different configurations at reasonable prices, I'd get one of those and mate it up to any quality lower that has the features you want. As far as the rifles I'VE seen, the BCMs have had consistently better QC than the DDs.

[JV_]

I'm glad to see BCM is still on the OK list. I bought a bunch of their uppers a while back and pushed them in to the back of the safe.

[LittleLebowski]

I'm glad to see BCM is still on the OK list. I bought a bunch of their uppers a while back and pushed them in to the back of the safe.

With BCM including their excellent BCGs with their uppers for free nowadays, I don't see why people wouldn't buy from them.

[Chance]

Perfect. Just perfect. After this whole debacle (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13214-Looks-Like-Legion-Firearms-is-Shutting-Down-with-No-Rifles-and-No-Refunds), I received my Daniel Defense M4 v11 yesterday. I don't know enough about ARs to assess the build quality, but I guess a function check is in order sooner rather than later. I guess I can really pick a winner. :confused:

[LittleLebowski]

Perfect. Just perfect. After this whole debacle (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13214-Looks-Like-Legion-Firearms-is-Shutting-Down-with-No-Rifles-and-No-Refunds), I received my Daniel Defense M4 v11 yesterday. I don't know enough about ARs to assess the build quality, but I guess a function check is in order sooner rather than later. I guess I can really pick a winner. :confused:

I'll bet it's fine.

[ReverendMeat]

Yeah, Chance, I wouldn't worry about it. The company's reputation is too good to be entirely hot air and I certainly wouldn't loose sleep if I was issued one. The QC issues I've seen with the DDs for the most part were fairly minor, hell I've seen worse on rifles that cost twice as much. The biggest reason I'd pick BCM over DD is that BCM has consistent quality for incredibly reasonable prices.

[Jay Cunningham]

Guys - take your rifles out and shoot them.

[joshs]

Perfect. Just perfect. After this whole debacle (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13214-Looks-Like-Legion-Firearms-is-Shutting-Down-with-No-Rifles-and-No-Refunds), I received my Daniel Defense M4 v11 yesterday. I don't know enough about ARs to assess the build quality, but I guess a function check is in order sooner rather than later. I guess I can really pick a winner. :confused:

I wouldn't worry too much. I've seen a bunch of DD rifles, and they were all built well. I still think their bolt up rail attachement is one of the best rail attachment systems available. DD is also a great company, so if you do have an issue, I'm sure they'll take care of it.

[Unobtanium]

A daniel defense barrel is the best one of its kind on the market imo. The build quality "issues" largely don't matter functionally and If they do I can promise Daniel Defense will make it right.

[Little Creek]

Perfect. Just perfect. After this whole debacle (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13214-Looks-Like-Legion-Firearms-is-Shutting-Down-with-No-Rifles-and-No-Refunds), I received my Daniel Defense M4 v11 yesterday. I don't know enough about ARs to assess the build quality, but I guess a function check is in order sooner rather than later. I guess I can really pick a winner. :confused:

I would not be too quick to condemn DD. Myself and 2 of my friends have DDM4V7lw carbines and they are accurate and have served us well. Their magwells are bigger than the Colt M4 carbines, I have one of those too. I also have a friend with a MK12 who claims he shoots 3/4 inch groups with it at an indoor 100 yard range (it has a big scope on it). He is a man of integrety. He told me that he considers DDM4 carbines to be the best available for the money and they are not entry level. I just bought a DDM4V11 S2W and it has no issues. It appears to have been put together right. But, I guess everyone knows if you hear it on the internet, it must be true. Hogwash! Visit some of the other forums and see what they think of DD.

[LittleLebowski]

I would not be too quick to condemn DD. Myself and 2 of my friends have DDM4V7lw carbines and they are accurate and have served us well. Their magwells are bigger than the Colt M4 carbines, I have one of those too. I also have a friend with a MK12 who claims he shoots 3/4 inch groups with it at an indoor 100 yard range (it has a big scope on it). He is a man of integrety. He told me that he considers DDM4 carbines to be the best available for the money and they are not entry level. I just bought a DDM4V11 S2W and it has no issues. It appears to have been put together right. But, I guess everyone knows if you hear it on the internet, it must be true. Hogwash! Visit some of the other forums and see what they think of DD.

There's folks on here in this thread saying that it will probably be fine, myself included.

[WDW]

I would not be too quick to condemn DD. Myself and 2 of my friends have DDM4V7lw carbines and they are accurate and have served us well. Their magwells are bigger than the Colt M4 carbines, I have one of those too. I also have a friend with a MK12 who claims he shoots 3/4 inch groups with it at an indoor 100 yard range (it has a big scope on it). He is a man of integrety. He told me that he considers DDM4 carbines to be the best available for the money and they are not entry level. I just bought a DDM4V11 S2W and it has no issues. It appears to have been put together right. But, I guess everyone knows if you hear it on the internet, it must be true. Hogwash! Visit some of the other forums and see what they think of DD.

That may very well be, but it doesn't change the fact that MY gun shipped with broken parts & incorrect assembly. If I wanted a fucked up gun put together wrong, I'd of assembled it myself.

[Little Creek]

That may very well be, but it doesn't change the fact that MY gun shipped with broken parts & incorrect assembly. If I wanted a fucked up gun put together wrong, I'd of assembled it myself.

Perhaps you should learn how to get your point across without using profanity. If you have never had a quality issue with a manufactured product from a reputable company, then you must be very young.

[ASH556]

That may very well be, but it doesn't change the fact that MY gun shipped with broken parts & incorrect assembly. If I wanted a fucked up gun put together wrong, I'd of assembled it myself.

Sorry dude, but BS. Here's your list of complaints from your original post:


(1) The castle nut is not staked in any serious way, (2)the safety detent spring was broken from the factory, (3)the castle nut has some weird discoloration running down the side, (4)the grip screw was almost impossible to remove & then reinstall (threads are prob fucked) again from the factory, & (5)there is a noticeable gap between the trigger guard & grip.
(numbers above inserted by me for reference)

Only one of these (item 2) is a broken part, so you didn't have multiple "broken parts" as you posted. Furthermore, I'd like to see a pic of the broken spring. How did you determine it was broken? Did your selector not work?

The remaining four items are purely cosmetic and quite nit-picky. Post up a pic of your castle nut staking. Bottom line here is that you're running your mouth and hurting a company's reputation with no facts to back it up and an apparent unwillingness to let them make it right for you. Bad form.

[LittleLebowski]

Perhaps you should learn how to get your point across without using profanity. If you have never had a quality issue with a manufactured product from a reputable company, then you must be very young.

Hit Report Post if you like in the future if you think there was too much profanity according to the rules of this forum. The moderators will moderate this site.

All else, back on topic.

[JM Campbell]

Sell it and move on...

People forget about the recent frenzy/craziness across the AR market, might some of these rifles finally purchased now be from that get it out the door to meet demand time? Just saying.

I have seen multiple DD ARs that run and have looked to be properly built, there is always going to be lemons in mass production period. These are tools/machines they will be built, break, rebuilt and run.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[23JAZ]

Sell it and move on...

People forget about the recent frenzy/craziness across the AR market, might some of these rifles finally purchased now be from that get it out the door to meet demand time? Just saying.

I have seen multiple DD ARs that run and have looked to be properly built, there is always going to be lemons in mass production period. These are tools/machines they will be built, break, rebuilt and run.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

I work in QA and I will be the first to say as demand goes up production rates increase and the ability to control quality decreases period. You could have a platoon of quality techs and they will never catch every defect. In a perfect world all specs would have a tolerance of .0005" but then you'd be scrapping 90 percent of everything machined because it would all be out of tolerance. Yes DD is a great company but their not a custom shop. So instead of a +|- .0005" tolerance they probably TRY and stay within a +|- .005". It is possible you have a .010" even .020" gap between the trigger guard and magwell, that's a little more then the diameter of 6 human hairs, on a "off the shelf" gun if that's your biggest problem, I'd say you're in good shape. And if you really can't live with it call DD I'm sure Marty will get right on the phone with you and make it right. Better yet go shoot your brand new rifle.

[WDW]

Sorry dude, but BS. Here's your list of complaints from your original post:


(numbers above inserted by me for reference)

Only one of these (item 2) is a broken part, so you didn't have multiple "broken parts" as you posted. Furthermore, I'd like to see a pic of the broken spring. How did you determine it was broken? Did your selector not work?

The remaining four items are purely cosmetic and quite nit-picky. Post up a pic of your castle nut staking. Bottom line here is that you're running your mouth and hurting a company's reputation with no facts to back it up and an apparent unwillingness to let them make it right for you. Bad form.
Ok Captain Hook....I'll work on my "bad form". I'm a former marine and regrettably use the f word like and & the....without malice. Everything I've said has been true, first of all. Secondly, I fully stated that the company offered to replace my gun. I'm not bad mouthing anyone. I just have a bad taste in my mouth. And yes, a lot of this is cosmetic, but STFW????, I paid for a product, I don't like it, and I'm sharing my consumerialistic dislike. Half the SME's on here have said DD rifles display small issues & mine was one of them.

If a Glock or Sig shipped with a broken spring & cosmetic issues, everyone would hop right on the QC bandwagon with their pitchforks chanting "Shoulda got an HK"...do it with an AR apparently & it's no big deal.

[Little Creek]

"Half the SME's on here have said DD rifles display small issues."

Really? I have not heard that from anyone else. If you want to be taken seriously, then I suggest you let this go!

[breakingtime91]

I think he is saying compared to other rifles of similar price, he is disappointed in his AR. I find it hard to stomach the amount of effort Ash and little are putting into proving to everyone there choice of rifle is awesome. Even doc states DD would be OKAY which in other words means the rifles in the same class (KAC, colt, and BCM) are a better choice. If you like DD, okay we get it now. This thread wasn't started for you to defend your pet brand, it was started by WDW to explain his issues and his experience with DD.

WDW, as a former marine, I got your back :cool:

[ASH556]

Edit: delete. I'm here to learn & improve my pistol skills, not argue about AR15's. Plenty of other places on the web for that.

[LittleLebowski]

Let's get back onto the technical discussion. Now.

[Aray]

"Half the SME's on here have said DD rifles display small issues."

Really? I have not heard that from anyone else. If you want to be taken seriously, then I suggest you let this go!



Are you saying the OP 1) didn't have a bad example from DD, 2) had a bad example and is being unfair to the company, or 3) is saying something bad about an inanimate object made by a company that you have an emotional attachment to?

[joshs]

Are you saying the OP 1) didn't have a bad example from DD, 2) had a bad example and is being unfair to the company, or 3) is saying something bad about an inanimate object made by a company that you have an emotional attachment to?

I'm assuming you missed this post right above yours:


Let's get back onto the technical discussion. Now.

[Aray]

I'm assuming you missed this post right above yours:

Roger.

[Unobtanium]

Let's get back onto the technical discussion. Now.

I have purchased 3 complete DD rifles.

I feel that attention to detail could be better. HOWEVER, for the price involved, they are functional pieces of hard-use equipment.

Niggles: The gap between the grip and the ears of the trigger guard on one will nibble at your finger if you aren't wearing gloves. The receiver extension on one is canted enough to see with the naked eye, but not enough to matter. The aluminum end plate on the other is "over-staked" and the chunk of metal that is staked is all but broken-through/off into the gap of the castle-nut. Most of them (2, all 3? I forget) arrived with corrosion on the bolt-tail from test-firing (rust, that when removed, left a pitted surface).

Good things: The feed ramps are polished to a sheen. They go "bang" and put the bullet where they are pointed. Their barrels are the best in the industry, hands-down, in my opinion, based on the facts of how they are made.

About SME's: SME's are...SME's. Their experience is undeniable, and people look up to them, and many have "impressive" resumes, have served our country or still do, and are, in general, pretty charismatic in their own way. They have to be careful what they say, because there IS a liability attached to that whether they want there to be, or not. An SME is not likely to take a hard line on something that they cannot readily demonstrate in court, for obvious reasons. Some companies can get very offended very fast, and have deep pockets, and you never know who will read that post/repeat that post/wake up on the wrong side of the bed. Witness Larry Vickers when he no-longer worked for Daniel Defense. He no-longer recommends them, but you will NOT find him saying ANYTHING bad about them. He will not include them in lists of carbines when you say "What should I buy?", etc. So really, you have to not only read between the lines with an SME, you have to look at their personal history with said product/company, as well.

[LittleLebowski]

Unobtanium and all reading: I wasn't kidding about the technical discussion aspect. That means.....not a discussion about SMEs.

My admonitions in this thread are not open for discussion nor to be ignored.

[Little Creek]

Are you saying the OP 1) didn't have a bad example from DD, 2) had a bad example and is being unfair to the company, or 3) is saying something bad about an inanimate object made by a company that you have an emotional attachment to?

2)