S&W 3913

[GJM]

So why isn't the 3913 LS the ideal "thin" AIWB 9mm?

It is thin, accurate, reliable (you hear folks saying it will feed even empty cases), has a revolver like DA trigger with a very short reset SA trigger, capacity that makes it legal in restricted states without having to take neutered magazines, nice weight compromise for shooting and carrying, and an AIWB friendly manual of arms.

Here are some comparison pictures with a P2000SK as I don't have a Shield and my PPS is elsewhere.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/39133_zpsa567d488.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/39133_zpsa567d488.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/39132_zpse36c0654.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/39132_zpse36c0654.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/39134_zps6b0f37a5.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/39134_zps6b0f37a5.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/39135_zpsde863d4f.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/39135_zpsde863d4f.jpg.html)

[Totem Polar]

Because the 3953 holds that title?

Seriously, the 3953 has a lot to offer. The 3913 is slightly more cumbersome control-wise. A decock-only 3913 would be awesome, IMHO.

However, It's been said here before (and not just by me) that the thinner, smooth-triggered 3953 was ahead of its time, AIWB doctrine-wise.

Probably shouldn't have sold mine, but at least it went to a good home with another P-F'er.

[SteveK]

It is. I never leave home without mine. It's the one gun I would never give up.

[Tamara]

I have its even-stubbier offspring, the CS9...

2589

[Totem Polar]

The dodo and the CS9 are birds of a flightless feather. That pic only wants of a smaller torch for perfection.

[GJM]

Help me understand the benefit of the CS9 over the 3913. Doesn't seem like the shorter barrel helps AIWB -- are you thinking pocket carry or something else?

[JonInWA]

Because I had the funds and the inclination, back in the day when the 3914/3914 were roaming the planet, I personally went the Euro route of SIG-Sauer P225, Walther P5, HK P7 PSP and Beretta 92 Compact L Type M for my single-stack 9mm needs. But I've literally never heard any significant words of condemnation hurled against the 3914/3914, and both personal friends and people that I respect valued it, and their experiences with it highly.

But it may (or may not) be of any relevance that I have zero experience carrying any pistol AIWB...

Best, Jon

[Tamara]

Help me understand the benefit of the CS9 over the 3913. Doesn't seem like the shorter barrel helps AIWB -- are you thinking pocket carry or something else?

I don't know that there is any benefit for AIWB, at least for most folks. I don't find it any harder to carry there than a J-frame, though.

It does have a slightly shorter grip and mags are harder to find.

[RevolverRob]

The 3913LS has been one of my carry guns for about 6 years, and for about 4 years it was my primary carry with a J-Frame as backup. I am pretty much convinced it is the best compact single stack 9mm ever built. It might not work for pocket carry (that said, I have coat pocket carried my 3913), and it isn't as small or light as other guns, but it's just sublime to shoot and carries so well. I bought mine used so real round count no clue, mine has 4000 rounds I've fired through it. Most of those (3000) are just standard off the shelf FMJ in 115 and 124 grain flavors. A 1000 rounds of 124-grain +P JHPs in HST and Golden Saber flavors. I've never had a single malfunction of any kind during that time, I'm convinced that like the Ruger P95 it shares the safe with, it would probably feed rocks if I could get them loaded in 9mm cases.

That said, I went to the Kahr CW9 as a replacement for the 3913 for primary carry, because I knew Smith was going to stop producing parts, and magazines were getting tougher to find. As a personal rule my primary carry guns must be of current production, or at least have parts in current production, because I want to be able to get parts and spares quickly. The Kahr does almost as well in terms of carrying, it's actually smaller in a few dimensions (grip width for instance), but it's not as slick sided and it doesn't shoot quite as well. That said, the Kahr is about 6 ounces lighter which is quite nice.

-Rob

[LSP972]

I stumbled across a 3953 a few months back, and in an amazing feat of timing, found a guy on the S&W Forum selling nine like-new magazines the very next day.

I had a holster and mag pouch crafted, and may start carrying it... its quite a bit lighter and of course thinner than the HK45C.

What gives me pause is the trigger reset. Its a "double reset" like a DAK (although the stroke is much shorter)... buuuut... unlike the Sig, the S&W "DAO" must be released all the way to the second reset point. Stop at the first one, and... nada.

IOW, to my mind, the 3953's trigger is kind of like a P7 staplegun's; best to stay with it exclusively to prevent any double-clutching, etc., at a critical time. Dunno, maybe after I work with it a while I'll change my mind.

Really nice carry piece, though, from a practical standpoint. For sure, that genre of S&W is what killed the Devel and ASP.

.

[GJM]

I stumbled across a 3953 a few months back, and in an amazing feat of timing, found a guy on the S&W Forum selling nine like-new magazines the very next day.

I had a holster and mag pouch crafted, and may start carrying it... its quite a bit lighter and of course thinner than the HK45C.

What gives me pause is the trigger reset. Its a "double reset" like a DAK (although the stroke is much shorter)... buuuut... unlike the Sig, the S&W "DAO" must be released all the way to the second reset point. Stop at the first one, and... nada.

IOW, to my mind, the 3953's trigger is kind of like a P7 staplegun's; best to stay with it exclusively to prevent any double-clutching, etc., at a critical time. Dunno, maybe after I work with it a while I'll change my mind.

Really nice carry piece, though, from a practical standpoint. For sure, that genre of S&W is what killed the Devel and ASP.

.

I got a 3953, and discovered the same thing. Between that and how good the SA is on a 3913, I prefer it to the 3953. With the 3913 LS, it only has one safety lever, shrinking the thinness advantage of the 3953 by half.

[LSP972]

That said, I went to the Kahr CW9 as a replacement for the 3913 for primary carry, because I knew Smith was going to stop producing parts, and magazines were getting tougher to find.
-Rob

That is on my mind as well; although I solved the magazine problem... got 11 of those puppies now.

Curious as to why you think the lighter, slightly-trimmer Kahr P9/CW9 is "almost" as good for carrying. I have, more than once, considered that option. I had a P45 and liked it, but a pal liked it more and offered me a trade I couldn't turn down.

.

[LSP972]

I got a 3953, and discovered the same thing. Between that and how good the SA is on a 3913, I prefer it to the 3953. With the 3913 LS, it only has one safety lever, shrinking the thinness advantage of the 3953 by half.

No argument there; but I truly despise the necessary decocking stroke on those Walther-type safeties.

.

[ST911]

The more I shoot the latest subcompact-ish single stack 9mm offerings the more I would like to see a run of new 3913s.

Though, I wonder if it would be fair to expect as much of the new 39## as older.

[Tamara]

Though, I wonder if it would be fair to expect as much of the new 39## as older.

I don't see why not; by the late Nineties they'd already taken almost all the shortcuts they could short of either starting from a clean sheet of paper or moving the tooling to Turkey or the Philippines. :(

[NickA]

You guys aren't making me feel good about selling my 3913 a few years ago :-(
Mine was like GJM describes, with an SA trigger that was insanely easy to shoot.
IIRC they did produce a "budget" version of that series until recently, the 908 and 910 I think. Don't know if the quality was the same.

[RevolverRob]

That is on my mind as well; although I solved the magazine problem... got 11 of those puppies now.

I am up to...six or seven if I see them for sale in ones and twos and I have the cash in my pocket I buy them. I need to buy more, so I have enough for a lifetime.


Curious as to why you think the lighter, slightly-trimmer Kahr P9/CW9 is "almost" as good for carrying. I have, more than once, considered that option. I had a P45 and liked it, but a pal liked it more and offered me a trade I couldn't turn down.

The 3913LS has a nice tapered frame and almost no square/blocky/sharp edges to it at all, even the magazine baseplates are usually flat and nicely rounded, even if they aren't flush fitting, although the longer pointed "pinky"-type do exist. It also has nice sharp checkering on the front strap. By contrast even though the Kahr is trimmer, but it has a blocky shape to it that I find more difficult to hide, especially in AIWB. The CW9 being the "cheap" Kahr (and it is pretty affordable, they are running what? About three and a half Benjamins most places) has several noticeably sharp edges that had to be stoned down on the slide. The frame was pretty slick, but I find most polymer frames are and that's readily solved with grip tape. Finally, the baseplate shape on the 7-round Kahr mags is more pointed and I find it doesn't conceal quite as well, tending to poke out at odd angles compared to the 3913.

Overall, I'd say they are really quite close and the longer I carr(ied) the Kahr the less I noticed the differences. It was really just a matter of, I'd carried the 3913 for 4 years and switched to the Kahr and it was different.

The one thing I do really like about the Kahr over the 3913 is the slightly thinner grip strap. I can really get my hands around it and hold onto the gun. That's why with a bit of practice shooting wise the Kahr and 3913 are almost dead even. The extra weight soaks up some recoil in the 3913, but the extra control with the hands on the CW9 pretty much balances it out. The 3913 has a much better trigger, even TDA, especially the sweet SA trigger.

-Rob

[LSP972]

It was really just a matter of, I'd carried the 3913 for 4 years and switched to the Kahr and it was different.



Makes sense; I know what you mean.

.

[GJM]

Considering a Kahr in the same class as a 3913 as to shootability/durability/reliability doesn't jive with the experience owning about 8 Kahr pistols over the years. Shootability in terms of trigger, reliability in terms of over fifty percent needing a trip back to the Kahr factory.

[DamonL]

I like the 3913. It filled the single-stack 9mm niche, when I was looking for one. I haven't fired mine in years, but I can't get my self to sell it. I would probably buy a S&W Shield nowadays.

[JAD]

Curious as to why you think the lighter, slightly-trimmer Kahr P9/CW9 is "almost" as good for carrying.

The 39xx have hammers. I don't carry aiwb all that often, but considering it made me like riding the hammer regardless of holster position.

[RevolverRob]

Considering a Kahr in the same class as a 3913 as to shootability/durability/reliability doesn't jive with the experience owning about 8 Kahr pistols over the years. Shootability in terms of trigger, reliability in terms of over fifty percent needing a trip back to the Kahr factory.

That is quite possibly the case in reliability. I have a sample size of one Kahr and one 3913 and between the two the Kahr has less than 1/3 the number of rounds through it. My CW9 has been 100% through 1250 rounds and 250 of those were JHPs either in bonded GS or HST flavor and shows no signs of abnormal wear or durability issues, but sample size of one. I actually got the Kahr, because I traded an unused K-Frame for it and half-expected it to be unreliable given the history. I have been pleasantly surprised both by my ability to shoot the thing and by its reliability.

I totally agree on the trigger. The 3913 has an excellent trigger from the factory. The Kahr isn't bad, but isn't excellent by any stretch either, I'd just call it "usable".

[LtDave]

Big brother to the 3914, a 4014:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5257620/IMG_1059.JPG

[LSP972]

The 39xx have hammers. I don't carry aiwb all that often...

I don't at all. But I have been known to go mexican a time or two, and those hammers are a great comfort, I agree. No way I'd go mexican with a non-hammered piece.

.

[Hambo]

I don't see why not; by the late Nineties they'd already taken almost all the shortcuts they could short of either starting from a clean sheet of paper or moving the tooling to Turkey or the Philippines. :(

Yeah. I liked 3rd Gen S&Ws, but I saw a fair number of 5900 series go TU when run hard. That cooled my interest, although my wife had a sweet 5943 for a while. Now I wish they'd make a high quality retro run of 3913s and 4566TSWs.

[GJM]

Coonfingering my 4566 and 220, I find the 4566 very appealing, although in a different way than the 220.

[LSP972]

Yeah. I liked 3rd Gen S&Ws, but I saw a fair number of 5900 series go TU when run hard.

The alloy frame examples start getting real tired around the 5K mark, due to the steel barrel lugs slamming directly into the alloy frame. This was a real issue with the ASP; my second one started peening after less than 500 rounds.

The alloy frame .40s (4053, I think) that Memphis PD issued for a while started cracking left and right. The MPD/FTU guy I spoke with told me the approximate round count when this began occurring, but that was over ten years ago and I forget now. It wasn't a whole heck of a lot, though.

The steel frame examples are pretty much tanks.

.

[LSP972]

Coonfingering my 4566 and 220, I find the 4566 very appealing, although in a different way than the 220.

Too bad you don't like the LEM. The HK45C puts both of those in the shade, IMO. But the V1 DA/SA HK trigger just… sucks.

.

[GJM]

Too bad you don't like the LEM. The HK45C puts both of those in the shade, IMO. But the V1 DA/SA HK trigger just… sucks.

.

I have multiple copies of the HK45 and 45C with the TLG trigger set-up. I can shoot circles around them with a P220 or M&P 45 doing drills like a FAST.

I still like LEM, and carry a USP C in .45 and .357/.40 in AK. I do that for reasons other than pure shootability.

[SWAT Lt.]

I really like the 3rd Gen S&W 9mm autos in general, and the 3913 & 6906 in particular. I do not care for the DAO versions due to the long trigger reset. I have been looking for a 5903 in very good/excellent condition for quite a while with no success.

[Chuck Haggard]

I really like the 3rd Gen S&W 9mm autos in general, and the 3913 & 6906 in particular. I do not care for the DAO versions due to the long trigger reset. I have been looking for a 5903 in very good/excellent condition for quite a while with no success.


If this was a few years ago I could have sold you three 5903s, one of each trigger guard style and a TSW gun with the rail.

Ref the 5906s; Mine was a tank. No noticeable wear/tear after tens of thousands of rounds of ammo downrange, much of it +P and +P+. I never got to shoot my alloy framed guns that much, but that 5906 was seriously stout, durable and reliable.

[BobM]

I was issued a 5906 in 1990 and bought a 3913 as soon as I saw one for an off duty. I also got a 4506 which was carried off duty once in a while and sometimes used it for bowling pin shooting. I eventually picked up another 3913 and sometimes carried both, in RH and LH IWBs (I don't recall that lasting that long). I really liked the idea of using a family of pistols that all operated the same.
Today I'm down to the 5906 (bought when we traded them for M&P40s) and the original 3913.
My late father in law used a Ladysmith 3913 for an off duty gun; he got a pretty good deal on it somewhere. I think he had the NL version also.

[LSP972]

I still like LEM, and carry a USP C in .45 and .357/.40 in AK. I do that for reasons other than pure shootability.

Okay. I got the impression that you didn't like it.

I've got a lot of time behind a P220, and some time behind the M&P .45. I'll take the 45C any day… for all reasons. Different strokes…


.

[JodyH]

A CS9 with slim grips and a light DAO trigger would be aaawesome.

[GJM]

A CS9 with slim grips and a light DAO trigger would be aaawesome.

Based on my experience with the 3953 trigger, why would someone prefer DAO to what is a very good DA with a short reset conventional 3913 trigger?

[JodyH]

Because I hate decockers, especially slide mounted combination safety/decockers.

[Tamara]

I wouldn't mind if the safety were instead a decocker. In fact, I'd rather prefer it.

[GJM]

Because I hate decockers, especially slide mounted combination safety/decockers.


I wouldn't mind if the safety were instead a decocker. In fact, I'd rather prefer it.

For years, I thought the decocker/safety was terrible. After having used them now, I actually don't mind them at all. I would mildly prefer a G style decock only function, but I can live with the combination decocker/safety, and don't consider it a significant factor in my assessment of a pistol. There are even situations I prefer it being a safety too, like off body carry or where the pistol is separated from me.

[RevolverRob]

I like slide mounted safety-decockers and TDA guns. To the point, I'd probably sell all of my revolvers for a life time's supply of 3rd Gen Smiths and Berettas, if someone could make the deal hassle gree. If someone made a sub-compact TDA gun that could replace a snub revolver, I'd have a couple of those too.

That's because it's essentially a life time of use for me now. I learned to shoot on a .22 clone of a Walther PPK with a slide mounted safety-decocker as a kid and the first pistol I bought and carried was a Ruger P95DC. I have maybe a small preference to decocker only, because I carry safety-decock guns decocked, safety off, so the decock-only makes more sense to avoid inadvertently turning the safety on. That said, I've never actually had a safety turn on accidentally. I definitely prefer the safety for administrative gun handling purposes that extra safety layer is nice, of course if you're following the rules you shouldn't need it, but hey I won't turn down a little extra protection if it's available.

-Rob

[Kimura]

For years, I thought the decocker/safety was terrible. After having used them now, I actually don't mind them at all. I would mildly prefer a G style decock only function, but I can live with the combination decocker/safety, and don't consider it a significant factor in my assessment of a pistol. There are even situations I prefer it being a safety too, like off body carry or where the pistol is separated from me.

I trained with some guys that were issued S&W pistols. They actually really liked this feature. They liked that extra layer of security in case of a gun grab. They also liked the mag safety because in a struggle they could theoretically release the mag and make the gun inoperable.

[NickA]

Pretty sure there is or at least was a "G" type conversion available through the factory. I think it depended on when the gun was made.

[RevolverRob]

Pretty sure there is or at least was a "G" type conversion available through the factory. I think it depended on when the gun was made.

Wait I had something for this...Here we go: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/141689-anyway-switch-decocker-w-safety-decokcer-only.html

I had that one saved in a pile of links from when I was doing research on a potential 3rd gen project.

[Tamara]

For years, I thought the decocker/safety was terrible. After having used them now, I actually don't mind them at all. I would mildly prefer a G style decock only function, but I can live with the combination decocker/safety, and don't consider it a significant factor in my assessment of a pistol. There are even situations I prefer it being a safety too, like off body carry or where the pistol is separated from me.

Oh, I don't hatehatehate it; my thumb is just really lazy: "I just worked the safety! Now you want me to move it back again? That's, like, a whole quarter inch! Work, work, work!"

[Rich]

I was a huge S&W 3rd gen fan and carried a M5906! For a spare I had to pick between the M3913 and the M6906.

I choose the M6906 because it held a few more bullets and wasn't that wide.

The M6906 was pretty accurate compared to big brother also easier to hide.

I carried both appendix and at my side.

The M5906 with its heavy frame makes for soft shooting 9mm and so far was the easiest 9mm for me to shoot.

[Rich]

I like the side opener.

[Chuck Haggard]

If the gun fits your hand, learning to run the S&W safety properly makes it fast and sure. Once I got the hang of things (and coming from carrying a wheelgun on duty that took some work) I carried all of my S&Ws on safe.

[GJM]

I got to shoot my 3913 LS today. Not as much as I would have liked but 50 rounds. Shot these two groups, 25 yards offhand.

First group I called the one shot high. Second one felt fine. I really love this little pistol.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/391311_zps7243f177.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/391311_zps7243f177.jpg.html)


http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/391310_zps8193e59a.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/391310_zps8193e59a.jpg.html)

[Tamara]

I keep saying that the 3913LS is one of my favorite single-stack nines ever. It may give up a tiny few style points to a Beretta Type M, but style don't make the bullets fly straighter.

[Chuck Haggard]

I keep saying that the 3913LS is one of my favorite single-stack nines ever. It may give up a tiny few style points to a Beretta Type M, but style don't make the bullets fly straighter.

Word!

[rsa-otc]

While S&W may have marketed the LS line of guns to the fairer sex, they were very popular with the guys as well. Especially the 3913LS.

[Jared]

Has anyone tried a 3913 in a 6906 holster? I noticed JM Custom offers holsters for the 6906, which has me wondering how my 3914 would do in one.

[Tamara]

Has anyone tried a 3913 in a 6906 holster? I noticed JM Custom offers holsters for the 6906, which has me wondering how my 3914 would do in one.

Well, they're pretty much the same gun above and forward of the mag well, so it oughta be close. The only holster I have for my CS9 at the moment is a Bianchi #3 Pistol Pocket, and it's just sized for "S&W Auto".

[Totem Polar]

^^^This. When I was using my 3953 as my "class gun", I backed it up with a second gen 469; they both fit perfectly into the same ancient Galco leather IWB holster.

[GJM]

Has anyone tried a 3913 in a 6906 holster? I noticed JM Custom offers holsters for the 6906, which has me wondering how my 3914 would do in one.

Tony at JM says they are the same, and he is making me an AIWB for 3913 now.

[Chuck Haggard]

The old Safariland model 200 "Top Gun" duty rig would work for and lock in a 5906/6906/3913

[LSP972]

The old Safariland model 200 "Top Gun"..

That was our specified- then issued- holster for quite a while; along with the Don Hume D416 dual "V" magazine pouch.

.

[Chuck Haggard]

That was our specified- then issued- holster for quite a while; along with the Don Hume D416 dual "V" magazine pouch.

.


I bought the 200 when we went to the 3rd gen S&Ws because we were issuing the 295 and it didn't work for me at all, I also used that Don Hume mag pouch.

[LSP972]

The 200 was FAST; we had some under-a-second speed draw and fire times.

I'm of mixed opinion on the "Level 3 retention" holsters most folks are using these days. On the one hand, I realize that times are different, there are more assholes out there now who WILL make a grab attempt, but compared to a solid/simple thumb break design… man, are they slow to present.

Just another reason I'm glad to be retired.

.

[LSP552]

The 200 was FAST; we had some under-a-second speed draw and fire times.

I'm of mixed opinion on the "Level 3 retention" holsters most folks are using these days. On the one hand, I realize that times are different, there are more assholes out there now who WILL make a grab attempt, but compared to a solid/simple thumb break design… man, are they slow to present.

Just another reason I'm glad to be retired.

.

Steve, remember that LSP had the special order 200LS (LA State) model (SIG only) built for us. It was tweaked for a true straight drop and slightly longer, not curved thumb break. And unless I've gone senile, I remember you routinely hitting .7 - .8 on the timer to full extension and center hit at 5 - 7 yards. But you also have T-Rex arms that are 2 ft shorter than most people also..:p

Personally, I think the 200, especially the LS model, was the fastest factory-produced duty holster I've ever used. I don't count the Davis 4500…….since that was left for Moses at the bottom of the burning bush.

[GJM]

3913 musings. Mine has Novak sights. They are tight and not suitable for one hand manipulations. I see Trijicon offers two styles, the Novak style and another that looks better for one hand stuff, but equally tight. I thought I would have an easier time getting the 1911 shop to open up the Novak rear, since it doesn't have tritium, and let Tool Tech tritium the front. Trade off is space on the rear notch versus one hand manipulations.

Who does quality trigger jobs and do they significantly improve the trigger without compromising reliability?

Little bit of shooting suggested my copy likes AE 147 more than 115 ball. Anyone have data on carry loads that shoot well?

JM AIWB on the way.

What else?

[LittleLebowski]

The 200 was FAST; we had some under-a-second speed draw and fire times.

I'm of mixed opinion on the "Level 3 retention" holsters most folks are using these days. On the one hand, I realize that times are different, there are more assholes out there now who WILL make a grab attempt, but compared to a solid/simple thumb break design… man, are they slow to present.

Just another reason I'm glad to be retired.


The GLS (http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/08/25/safariland-5377-gls-outside-waist-band-holster-review/) will change your mind on that.

[Tamara]

I thought I would have an easier time getting the 1911 shop to open up the Novak rear, since it doesn't have tritium, and let Tool Tech tritium the front. Trade off is space on the rear notch versus one hand manipulations.

My gat isn't handy to check, but is there enough meat on the rear sight to machine a "step" into the Novak?

[LSP972]

The GLS (http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/08/25/safariland-5377-gls-outside-waist-band-holster-review/) will change your mind on that.

Perhaps it is fast enough, but is it available in a holster suitable for uniform duty use? And I'm talking about a Class A uniform, not the 5.11 Tuxedo or a BDU outfit.

.

[LittleLebowski]

Perhaps it is fast enough, but is it available in a holster suitable for uniform duty use? And I'm talking about a Class A uniform, not the 5.11 Tuxedo or a BDU outfit.


I couldn't tell you as I've only worn Marine Corps uniforms but I doubt it. I will say that it's a fast and reliable retention holster. Almost certainly the fastest retention holster made.

[Chuck Haggard]

I had a steady ability to get first shot hits from the draw, shooting one handed from "point shoulder" (hey, it was the '80s) at .79 when I was using that model 200 holster.

I wouldn't exactly call the GLS a "retention" holster, not in the police duty context anyway.

George, we started with 147s gr at work but quickly went to the 124gr and never went back, so thats the majority of my experience with bullet weight through S&Ws

[Chuck Whitlock]

along with the Don Hume D416 dual "V" magazine pouch.

I always thought that was the best flapped duty mag pouch out there. I was very disappointed when it was discontinued.

[LittleLebowski]

I wouldn't exactly call the GLS a "retention" holster, not in the police duty context anyway.


I believe that it's a Level 1 and the ALS is a Level 3? At any rate, I'd love to see this become the retention holster of choice for certain knuckleheads that don't conceal their weapons :D I also think it's great for outdoors stuff.

[Chuck Haggard]

I believe that it's a Level 1 and the ALS is a Level 3? At any rate, I'd love to see this become the retention holster of choice for certain knuckleheads that don't conceal their weapons :D I also think it's great for outdoors stuff.


The duty style SLS/ALS holsters are, the ALS only is a level one.

About levels; http://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/holster-retention-systems-and-sloppy-research/comment-page-1/#comment-518

And I agree that open carriers need to have at least a level 1 holster. Also nice in the woods and such.

[GJM]

Chuck, I was just studying this on the Safariland and Holsterops site. I understand either SLS or ALS alone to be classified level 2, ALS and SLS together to be level 3, and those with a guard thingee to be level 4. Seems like inflation by one level.


http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/info/retention.aspx

[LSP972]

I always thought that was the best flapped duty mag pouch out there.

It was… hands down.

.

[Dagga Boy]

Sort of an update with kind of a funny. I worked a deal with a guy for my Shorty Forty and I ended up with a 3913NL (ladysmith without the Ladysmith logo). Super neat gun and I wanted to get my 12 year old daughter working with it as it will fit her hands. She has been doing dry practice work with the Model 65 3" she inherited from her mom and she likes it. So I have her try the 3913. She loves the grip and weight. She could work the trigger but when I tried to explain the DA/SA transition and the de-cocker she gave me the typical tween response of "dad, that is sooooo confusing". We talked about and I asked if she thought it would be better if the trigger was just like her revolver "well....yeah........duh" (this is my daily hell of Tweendom). So a 3053 looks like the go to, and it is a gun I have always liked (sort of the LEM before the LEM).

Being GJM felt I guilted him into the 3053, I felt it was only right if the fairly rare 3914NL went north to Alaska, and his 3053 came to the Republic. We'll see if we can get this figured out as the latest P-F world of mastery of guns everyone else hated.....including us a some point:p. I really hope my daughter can run the 3053 well and loves it.............so daddy can keep the P7 I have in the safe for the same purpose. Even if she doesn't like the 3053 I figure it will fit well with my weird love of the P7, and SIG P-225.

[Tamara]

On the TDA Smith "Mini Nine" front, my CS9 got lonely and so I found it a friend at the fun show today...

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag421/Tamara_Keel/smithcompactnines_zps02afefc6.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/Tamara_Keel/media/smithcompactnines_zps02afefc6.jpg.html)

Man, that thing says "Early '80s" as sure as leg warmers or loafers with no socks...

With its skinny controls and flat Delrin grip panels, it's every bit as slim as the (much later) Hogue-gripped budget single-stack CS-9.

[Malamute]

On the TDA Smith "Mini Nine" front, my CS9 got lonely and so I found it a friend at the fun show today...

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag421/Tamara_Keel/smithcompactnines_zps02afefc6.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/Tamara_Keel/media/smithcompactnines_zps02afefc6.jpg.html)

Man, that thing says "Early '80s" as sure as leg warmers or loafers with no socks...

With its skinny controls and flat Delrin grip panels, it's every bit as slim as the (much later) Hogue-gripped budget single-stack CS-9.


I had a couple of those way back in the day. I liked them.

[TDA]

I realize that this isn't Smith&Wesson forum, but that's awesome and you should probably run out and buy two more.

[Brian T]

This 3913 was recently returned to me after a short while

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j101/Gunpics/IMG_0795_zps8ef8dc7f.jpg

[Alpha Sierra]

A pistol design that leaves me completely underwhelmed. When I rip mine (915) out of the holster, it's bizarre grip angle forces me to cock my wrist to keep from shooting several feet low.

Only reason I keep it is because it was a gift.

[Tamara]

A pistol design that leaves me completely underwhelmed.

Okay.

[Chuck Haggard]

A pistol design that leaves me completely underwhelmed. When I rip mine (915) out of the holster, it's bizarre grip angle forces me to cock my wrist to keep from shooting several feet low.

Only reason I keep it is because it was a gift.

Does it have the flat backstraps installed? If so, install the hump back style grip.

[Beat Trash]

A 3913 was my first off-duty pistol. It was one of the first guns to ship with MIM hammer and trigger. At that time, we had a couple of retired guys as our armors who were older than dirt. They detail stripped the gun to "check out the new hammer and trigger", acting as if they had no clue what they were doing. They also has some stones out and polished everything as they went. The result was amazing.

This gun needed the Hogue rubber grips to really fit my large hands. But it was by far my favorite of the third generation Smith's. And the Only third generation Smith I kept.

Mine has the front edge of the slide polished smooth from holster wear. Other than that, it's in good shape. It was the gun I happened to have on me when both of my children were born. Although I have long since retired my 3913, it isn't going anywhere. Mine has been buried in the back of the safe for a while. I haven't had it out in at least a year or more. Reading this thread makes me want to take it out and shoot it. Just because....

It was, and still is a great since stack pistol. One I wouldn't hesitate to carry again if I ever found myself living in a place like New York. But then, the 8 rd magazine would make it a Hi-Capacity pistol in NYC, correct?

[Alpha Sierra]

Does it have the flat backstraps installed? If so, install the hump back style grip.

I have and tried both. No joy.

[Alpha Sierra]

Okay.

Yes

[jh9]

Man, that thing says "Early '80s" as sure as leg warmers or loafers with no socks...

With its skinny controls and flat Delrin grip panels, it's every bit as slim as the (much later) Hogue-gripped budget single-stack CS-9.

I had a couple of those way back in the day. I liked them.

I must have missed the loafer fad.

Some days missing the early `80s feels like dodging a bullet.

[Malamute]

I must have missed the loafer fad.

Some days missing the early `80s feels like dodging a bullet.

I missed the loafers thing too. I was wearing Engineer boots or loggers.

The $2/box retail 308 ball ammo was kind of fun.

[SteveK]

One thing I love/hate about the 2nd gen S&Ws is the safety. I hate the fact the screw backs out and has to be loc-tited in. I love the fact that every one I've bought on the used market has come loose in 2 mags indicating that they are basically new guns.

[Chuck Haggard]

One thing I love/hate about the 2nd gen S&Ws is the safety. I hate the fact the screw backs out and has to be loc-tited in. I love the fact that every one I've bought on the used market has come loose in 2 mags indicating that they are basically new guns.

The good news being that the 3rd gen safety will fit those guns if you want a permanent fix

[BaiHu]

My dad had one for a short time. I hated it. If your strong hand pinky got near the magazine it would have FTF and stove pipe like crazy. I thought that this is what English gun control would feel like.

[Tamara]

My dad had one for a short time. I hated it. If your strong hand pinky got near the magazine it would have FTF and stove pipe like crazy. I thought that this is what English gun control would feel like.

I'm unclear on how the pinky contacting the mag floorplate would cause ejection issues?

[BaiHu]

Dunno if it was my sample of 1, but any pressure on the magazine butt plate and it would tilt the mag/follower under or toward the feed ramp. At least that's how I recall it from almost a decade ago.

[SteveK]

The good news being that the 3rd gen safety will fit those guns if you want a permanent fix

I wondered about that. Good to know. Thanks Chuck.

[GJM]

Midway just got OEM 3913 flat base mags in stock.

[BN]

Man, that thing says "Early '80s" as sure as leg warmers or loafers with no socks...


Penny loafers with sweat socks is early "60s" as I remember it. ;)

[Dagga Boy]

I am SO waiting for leg warmers and the soft clinging sweaters to come back. That and 80's big hair makes me weak to this day.

Thanks to GJM for the tip, I now have mags coming for the 3953 I got for my daughter.

[LSP972]

Thanks to GJM for the tip, I now have mags coming for the 3953 I got for my daughter.

Heck, I've got eleven of the suckers; wish I'd known you needed some for the gal.

10-4 on the big hair. That, a mini-skirt, some throw-me-down-and-do-me spike pumps… man…


.

[Dagga Boy]

Okay, finally got the 3953 to the range. It NEEDS some new sights, just because the front is sort of buggered up and I hate 3 dots. Trying to shoot it like an auto or a LEM is no good. Had a bunch of issues with short stroking it. Tell the brain....."It's a revolver"........bingo. You very much have to shoot them JUST like a revolver. If you do that, it shoots great. It would make a good deep concealment gun, especially combined with an air weight J frame where both guns triggers work the same.

[LtDave]

Midway just got OEM 3913 flat base mags in stock.

Greg Cote LLC has flat and curved now too for $33.95 I think.

[rathos]

Sorry to revive this, but does anyone besides trijicon make sights for this thing? I recently picked one up and I absolutely hate 3 dot sights. I am also curious why they don't make these guns any more. The DA trigger is better than any other DA/SA gun I have shot and the SA trigger has to be one of the best SA triggers ever with an extremely short reset. Any leads on sights would be appreciated though.

[Wondering Beard]

I don't know about large sight manufacturers but Novak still makes variations of their sights for that model

http://www.novaksights.com/products/sights/models/s&w3rd9mm.html

P.S. I experienced the same thing as Nyeti with the 3953 many years ago. It was at an IDPA match and I had forgotten the mags for my Glock and someone lent me a 3953; I had plenty of short strokes until I got used to the trigger. Still, I really liked that gun.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I'm teaching a class of psych/legal issues and we are discussing firearms appearance as an influence. Looking at the 3913LS vs the standard 3913 - the kids couldn't see what made the LS a Lady gun. But they were laughing at the 3913 Non-LS variant for those men who liked the gun but didn't want the LS on the slide. Then we discussed pink guns and knives - :)