Leupold Prismatic Tactical

[JodyH]

I finally had to give up on Aimpoints.
My astigmatism is to the point that a 4moa reflex dot looks like a 10moa cluster of fuzzy grapes.
Since my Meopta K-dot illuminated reticle still looks perfectly crisp to me I started searching for an alternative.
Enter the Leupold Prismatic Tactical.
Battery life sucks compared to even old generation Aimpoints, but the etched reticle pretty much makes that irrelevant for my intended use as a general purpose non-magnified carbine optic.
During the day illumination isn't required, at night it's just a quick button press away.
I've been using one on a Colt 6920 M4 for a while now and the Leupold is built like a tank with no issues whatsoever.
Adjustments are solid and repeatable and everything holds up under recoil and borderline abuse and neglect.
I plan on sticking this same optic on my incoming H&K MR762 to see how it holds up to 7.62 recoil, at least until I can afford to buy a nice Vortex Razor HD Gen II 1x6 to mount up.

If you have astigmatism and have given up on Aimpoints, give the prismatic a try.
Works for me anyway.

[Lon]

Do you have issues with iron sights on your pistol? My astigmatisms end up making me see two front sights quite often. Still trying to find the best way around that. They were bothering me so much at the IN Sectional USPSA match this weekend I ended up putting pasters on the inside of my left lense to allow me to see only one sight. That's not optimal in real life obviously. I'm looking for suggestions if you have any.

[JodyH]

Oddly enough handgun sights (and carbine irons) are perfectly clear and sharp.

[Lon]

Oddly enough handgun sights (and carbine irons) are perfectly clear and sharp.

Ok. Sorry to derail thread.

[NH Shooter]

I have the same issue with RDS and tried the Prismatic too. Overall, I liked it but ended up going back to the Aimpoint.

The battery life wasn't so much an issue, but the one I had would kill a battery without ever being turned on. Sent it back to Leupold and they made it right.

The reticle is sharp and clear, but IMO the center dot is pretty large, limiting the usefulness of the otherwise excellent reticle for longer range/precision shots.

I'm currently using the Aimpoint Pro on a mid length 14.5". In combination with a Knights rear BUIS, I flip the BUIS up for longer range shots - viewing the dot through an aperture sharpens it up noticeably.

I would not feel disadvantaged with the Prismatic, though there doesn't seem to be much love for them out there.

[TR675]

I've got a bit of an astigmatism - in my very limited experience with one type or another of Trijicon RMR I thought the dot was much crisper than the Aimpoint. Anyone else have the same experience?

[Jay Cunningham]

Interesting. Kind of reminds me of some Russian optics built for the side rails on Kalashnikovs. There's one that you may be familiar with called the PK-AS, which the Russians seem to simply refer to as a collimating sight. Part of it is wonderfully executed, and the other part is pretty miserably executed.

The design of the optic allows for what appears to the eye as a true 1x with no tube body. The reticle is etched and is a black circle with a black dot, which illuminates red.

Unfortunately when mounted, the "chin weld" is pretty bad, and the windage and elevation control layout is pretty crappy.

[NH Shooter]

Jay, I had a PK-AS on a Kreb's rifle - you absolutely nailed it above.

[JodyH]

For me an Aimpoint is an absolute no go, even the 2moa is far too fuzzy to use past 50 yards on anything smaller than a pie plate.
Without magnification I'm "minute of trashcan" out past 300 yards anyway so the dot size won't hold me back on precision at all.
A 6" "Shoot-N-C" at 100 yards is precision shooting for my eyes without magnification.

[JHC]

If you have astigmatism and have given up on Aimpoints, give the prismatic a try.
Works for me anyway.

That would be me. This is a very valuable review for me.

And with monovision contact prescript, my irons look good too. But RMRs and T1s are just a mess. I see about a 12 MOA read smeared stripe across a 100 yard target.

[JodyH]

One thing I forgot in my initial post:
The Prismatic is more 1x scope than reflex red dot, so while you still have pretty much unlimited eye relief directly behind the sight the lens will black out if you wander too far up down or side to side.
It's not really noticeable unless you are in one of those really awkward positions with nothing resembling a cheek weld.

[Archimagirus]

If you have astigmatism and have given up on Aimpoints, give the prismatic a try.
Works for me anyway.

Quoted for truth. I don't know that I have an astigmatism, but I had laser corrective surgery over a decade ago now and since then any points of light become a blob of light. I wondered why I sucked so bad with my aimpoint, and then I threw a 1-4 vortex on my rifle and saw what a small dot actually looked like and about had a heart attack over what I had been missing. I figured this out about a year ago, and I was forced to be patient. The leupold was the only decent option at the time. I waited and vortex came out with their prismatic sights and I love them. No more blobs when I look through the sight, though I will say they are probably way heavier than the leupold prismatic.

There is something that feels really dirty about living just down the road from the leupold factory and ordering a vortex sight, but I drank the kool aid and love their stuff.

[JodyH]

I knew what I was missing out on, I've been running a Meopta Meostar K-dot 1-4x on my 3-gun AR for a while now. The illuminated dot and crosshairs were well defined and crisp.
I just didn't know there was a well built option in a straight 1x until I found the Prismatic.

Don't get me wrong, the Prismatic is not in the same class as a Aimpoint CompM4 when it comes to red dots.
But for those who cannot use reflex sights due to astigmatism it's probably the best 1x out there.
The Vortex is the best 1x- variable unless you can go full S&B Short Dot, my Meopta has been an awesome 1-4x illuminated variable though and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another.

[NH Shooter]

But for those who cannot use reflex sights due to astigmatism it's probably the best 1x out there.


Agreed, and isn't stupid-heavy like a lot 1-4/6/8X scopes are.

[Drifting Fate]

Thanks for posting. So far, I've been getting by with the Aimpoints, but I know at some point my eyes will get too bad. Nice to hear what others have gone through and to learn from their experiences.

[taadski]

Are you gents seeing as distorted a dot with the larger Aimpoint models as you are the T-1s? I get a very smeared blob of a dot with the Micros, especially with a magnifier, but not with an older M2 I have or with the M4s. With those I see a pretty crisp clear dot.

Jody, have you tried using the prismatic with a magnifier? Any impressions with it in that role?

I've been waiting to get hands on one of the new Trijicon SRSs also to see if it might also be an option for the astigmatism-ridden.


t

[Little Creek]

I just didn't know there was a well built option in a straight 1x until I found the Prismatic.But for those who cannot use reflex sights due to astigmatism it's probably the best 1x out there.

I agree. I have a Prismatic and I use it quite a bit as a 1X scope with the red dot off. I have it mounted on a Colt M4, LT6720-R.

[Alpha Sierra]

Are you gents seeing as distorted a dot with the larger Aimpoint models as you are the T-1s?
I do. I have astigmatic eyes and a Comp C. I get the blurry dot. Not as bad now that I got new specs made (with evidently better astigmatism correction). But let the eye wander a bit and the bloom comes back.

[Vinh]

Interesting... I have long struggled with Aimpoints and EOTechs, went to variables, then settled on the compact 1.5x ACOG as a compromise. I'm currently trying Aimpoint again, but may have to finally check out the Leupold option.

[JHC]

Are you gents seeing as distorted a dot with the larger Aimpoint models as you are the T-1s? I get a very smeared blob of a dot with the Micros, especially with a magnifier, but not with an older M2 I have or with the M4s. With those I see a pretty crisp clear dot.

Jody, have you tried using the prismatic with a magnifier? Any impressions with it in that role?

I've been waiting to get hands on one of the new Trijicon SRSs also to see if it might also be an option for the astigmatism-ridden.


t

Good observation taadski. My frustration has been with T1s on the range and RMRs in the store. But I just looked through an older M2 on the range on a buddy's rifle and the dot was pretty decent.

[JodyH]

Comp M2 4moa is probably the worst bloomer.

[taadski]

Copy gents. Thanks. Just figured I'd ask as this stuff seems to vary significantly from individual to individual.

FWIW, JHC, I have an RMR that behaves very similarly to the micro with my eyes. That is to say, it's "workable" but I definitely get some bloom and distortion.

t

[JHC]

Copy gents. Thanks. Just figured I'd ask as this stuff seems to vary significantly from individual to individual.

FWIW, JHC, I have an RMR that behaves very similarly to the micro with my eyes. That is to say, it's "workable" but I definitely get some bloom and distortion.

t

Although I've had poor result with two T-1s, I suspect results per individual vision compatibility may vary somewhat from one copy of a sight to another.

[rob_s]

How one deals with vision issues relative to shooting is extremely personal. I've been using Compact ACOGs for quite some time, and endured some derision for same, as my way of addressing the issue. I've used the 1.5x and the 3x with great personal results. The primary downside to that solution is cost.

I've seen some 3-gunners using the Primsatic, and had been intending for awhile to give one a try. This thread has reminded me of that. Thanks.

[joshs]

The Prismatic is more popular in 3 gun because it's a whole lot easier to see shot-up steel in shadows with clear glass than through an Aimpoint or EoTech. Now that most rulesets are allowing 1x optics in "irons" divisions, 1x prism scopes will likely become more popular. Burris and Vortex both released new optics this year to compete with the Prismatic.

[rob_s]

The Prismatic is more popular in 3 gun because it's a whole lot easier to see shot-up steel in shadows with clear glass than through an Aimpoint or EoTech. Now that most rulesets are allowing 1x optics in "irons" divisions, 1x prism scopes will likely become more popular. Burris and Vortex both released new optics this year to compete with the Prismatic.

Vortex in question?

http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Spitfire-Prism-Reticle-SPR-1301/dp/B00HYRGOQQ

[joshs]

Vortex in question?

http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Spitfire-Prism-Reticle-SPR-1301/dp/B00HYRGOQQ

Yes, I haven't even handled one in person yet, but my understanding is the it is almost identical to the Prismatic, down to a nearly identical reticle, but it has a slightly smaller FoV and much brighter illumination. There is more discussion on it here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=190955

[JodyH]

That Vortex has a "Hecho en China" vibe to it.

[rob_s]

That Vortex has a "Hecho en China" vibe to it.

Agreed. What surprised me is that it's lighter and shorter than the Leupold. narrower FOV though. Not sure if these weights really include all mounting etc.

chart link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SJAzcZuriNzZR_IJwWdISx2mfbAUUDF0eKqPdQ09Kqg/edit?usp=sharing)

[NH Shooter]

IIRC, using the irons through the Prismatic is a non-starter - the optic would has to be removed to see the front sight clearly. If that is indeed the case (I think it is), I'd opt for a QD mount like the Larue (http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-qd-mount-low-leupold-prismatic).

[JodyH]

IIRC, using the irons through the Prismatic is a non-starter - the optic would has to be removed to see the front sight clearly. If that is indeed the case (I think it is), I'd opt for a QD mount like the Larue (http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-qd-mount-low-leupold-prismatic).
That's correct.
It's also best to have folding front and rear BUIS because the fixed sights are very distracting through the Prismatic.

[LittleLebowski]

You guys talking about one of these (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X5U2RI/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000X5U2RI&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20)? Never even heard of it before this thread. Good battery life?

[JodyH]

Yup, that's it.
Battery life is only a day or two continuous.
But it has a visible etched reticle so illumination isn't needed during the day.

[Archimagirus]

That Vortex has a "Hecho en China" vibe to it.
The built in mount is not great, and the whole thing most assuredly is made in China, but the sight itself, the adjustment turrets, and the power switch all feel pretty solid. I will say I did the single power button on the Leupold more than the twisty on the Vortex.

[Archimagirus]

Not sure if these weights really include all mounting etc.


With supplied mount, battery and front lense cover the Spitfire weighs 11.75 oz.

[rob_s]

Why does the spitfire have so many knobs?

Are the flip caps removable?

Are there other mounting options?

[JustOneGun]

I finally had to give up on Aimpoints.
My astigmatism is to the point that a 4moa reflex dot looks like a 10moa cluster of fuzzy grapes.
Since my Meopta K-dot illuminated reticle still looks perfectly crisp to me I started searching for an alternative.
Enter the Leupold Prismatic Tactical.
Battery life sucks compared to even old generation Aimpoints, but the etched reticle pretty much makes that irrelevant for my intended use as a general purpose non-magnified carbine optic.
During the day illumination isn't required, at night it's just a quick button press away.
I've been using one on a Colt 6920 M4 for a while now and the Leupold is built like a tank with no issues whatsoever.
Adjustments are solid and repeatable and everything holds up under recoil and borderline abuse and neglect.
I plan on sticking this same optic on my incoming H&K MR762 to see how it holds up to 7.62 recoil, at least until I can afford to buy a nice Vortex Razor HD Gen II 1x6 to mount up.

If you have astigmatism and have given up on Aimpoints, give the prismatic a try.
Works for me anyway.

Where was the Aimpoint positioned on the rifle? Similar to the Prismatic? I had the same problem. Oddly enough I also shot the Prismatic as that is what we issued to new rifle officers. I was having headaches with the Aimpoint and not with the Prismatic. I went to the doctor who said I was getting old (astigmatism) and needed glasses. It turns out he also shot long range rifle. He laughed and suggested that I was probably looking through the reticle on the Prismatic and unable to do it on the Aimpoint. He suggested that if i moved the Aimpoint forward (it was close to the same eye relief/spot as the Prismatic) a bit I might find it more workable. Basically I was trying to focus on the red dot just like I did the front sight of the pistol. I'm not sure if moving it forward helped or if it was the new glasses but the eye strain did go away. I had never worn glasses before so I'm not really sure which did it.

[Archimagirus]

Why does the spitfire have so many knobs?

Are the flip caps removable?

Are there other mounting options?

So as to not hijack a thread about a different product, I will post my reply to your questions in this thread when I get off work today.

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12431-Vortex-Spitfire-prismatic-optic&highlight=Spitfire

[OlongJohnson]

Necropost!

Now that some of y'all have several years experience and the opportunities to have used both, what are your thoughts on the Leupold vs. the Vortex Spitfire 1x?

They appear to be basically equivalent, except for secondary issues like battery life, stuff like that.

From a shooting perspective, the fact that the Leupold reticle includes cross hairs seems like it might be an advantage at distance when trying to work in holdover and/or "Kentucky windage." And in the case of relying on the etched reticle without illumination in daylight, it might be a little easier/faster to put the X over the target than to put just the circle-dot of the Vortex.

The old version of the Spitfire 1x can be had at Cabela's fairly often for $170 + tax. The new version is still more. New version has some advantages, but old version may have some advantages if used on a non-AR. I'm seeing more of the Leupolds show up on fleabay lately for somewhere in the lower $2xx range, and have been thinking about picking one up to compare.

Worth it? Or a waste of time?

Anybody heard what Leupold swaps it out with if it can't be repaired and needs to be replaced under warranty?

[JodyH]

I replaced the Prismatic with a Trijicon ACOG TA44 1.5x16.
For red dots I found that the Trijicon MRO has a lot less starburst than a Aimpoint to my eyes.
My MR762 is topped with a Elcan Specter DR so no problems there.
I also had LASIK done which helped some as well (but not as much as i'd hoped).

[SD]

Have been using the tactical prismatic on a AR-9 for several years. With vision stigmatism and poor overall eyesight this optic has been a pleasure to use I prefer it over my Aimpoint T-1 it appears less fuzzy for me. Battery life is not user friendly, I keep back up batteries in my hand grip. Don't know if they ever added auto shut off with later models but it would be nice. No experience with the Vortex so I can't offer up anything.

[maximus83]

Timely thread, going through some of the same vision-related changes. Had PRK surgery a few years back, while it got me to 20/15 at distance, age-related presbyopia and mild astigmatism are there and forcing me to adapt on sighting options.

I had been running Aimpoint T1/T2 on a couple of rifles, and while T2 is marginally better, both are fuzzy and imprecise enough that they start causing issues at any distance. Both still work ok for H.D. and really within 25y, but I'm looking for a sight with better clarity and precision, which extends the useful range of these rifles a bit.

Looked for a 1x prism with glass etched reticle, ballistic holds, and adj diopter. Currently I'm testing the PA Cyclops 1x (https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-1x-compact-prism-scope-with-acss-cyclops-reticle-black). Mounted on my Aimpoint T1 A.D. Sopmod QD mount. Battery life est 3000h. One limitation is no auto-on/off features like for example the 'motion sensor' feature that some Leupold scopes have--that would be a nice add. However the etched reticle is there for backup. Other than that, like the ruggedness, clarity (can run without RX lenses thx to the adj diopter), and the ACSS reticle. Not as combat-proven as an Aimpoint/ACOG, but liking it so far will see how it holds up.