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MD7305
09-12-2014, 03:52 PM
For about 6 weeks I've been struggling to decide on a small, NPE/BUG pistol and I absolutely can not decide on anything. I know there's probably not "the" answer but I'm in need of guidance or advice. The guns I've been mulling over are the M&P Shield, Glock 42, S&W 442, and the LCR.

The purpose of the gun is not to replace my (off duty) EDC, which is a G22 with a G23 sized, chopped grip but to give me more options. I need someting I can carry when mode of dress isn't friendly to a full-size pistol or when I need something smaller in general. Think church, jogging, walking to the mailbox, etc. I want something small enough that it hides easily, comfortably and conveniently but is adequate for self defense. Unfortunately my PD fails to realize the importance of BUGs so commonality with my G22 isn't really an issue due to BUGs being unauthorized. I won't pocket carry but ankle, discreet AIWB, tucked IWB, belly band, and smart carry are options.

Shield: I like that it's small yet usable. Comes in adequate calibers (I'd go 9mm), easy to find holsters, mags, sight, etc. I don't like the trigger (can be fixed) and it's maybe on the edge of being bigger than I prefer.

G42: I like it completely but I cannot get over it being .380. I'm an admitted Glock Koolaid drinker and I will confess that if it wasn't a Glock I wouldn't even consider it based on caliber alone. I know that's a bit silly but I'm being honest. I can get it blue label so the price advantage is nice too.

442: I had one in the past that I regret selling. CTC grips and an Apex kit really complete the package. I really like a j-frame but 5-shots of .38 vs. 8-shots of 9mm with faster reloads is holding me back. Plus, it's not much smaller than a Shield. I enjoy shooting a revolver and it could be a good training tool too.

LCR: see above. Just another revolver option.

I'm not interested in the G26/27 because they don't work for me in this application, I've tried. I know it makes the most sense since I carry a G22 but I can carry a compact or full-size Glock just as easily, thickness is the issue for me at this point. The PPS, although a great pistol, doesn't work for me mostly due to size and mag release. The G27 and PPS were my first two attempts and they didn't work out so I'm trying to get it right this time. I test fired a Kahr PM9, nice package but the trigger is not my cup of tea.

I'm stuck, my wheels are spinning, and I don't know what to do?

Lay your advice or suggestions on me. Keep in mind I carry my G22 successfully in most instances but I've found some short comings and that's what the smaller gun will hopefully help address. (sorry if I chose the wrong sub forum, I guess this kinda fits in autoloaders and revolvers)

Jay Cunningham
09-12-2014, 04:02 PM
The purpose of the gun is not to replace my (off duty) EDC, which is a G22 with a G23 sized, chopped grip but to give me more options. I need someting I can carry when mode of dress isn't friendly to a full-size pistol or when I need something smaller in general. Think church, jogging, walking to the mailbox, etc. I want something small enough that it hides easily, comfortably and conveniently but is adequate for self defense.

My vote is Glock 42 - not that the Shield (sans manual safety), J-frame, or LCR aren't good options. You already drink the Glock-Aid and the price is right for you - plus, they're pretty neat. I think they're the most concealable of the bunch.

Chuck Haggard
09-12-2014, 04:02 PM
The lounge gun thread will be of interest to you.

For the very job you describe I have a couple of 642s, an LCR, a S&W 317 (yes, that is in fact a .22lr) and a Glock 42, all of which work rather well for me.

The 642s are also my on duty BUGs, one in the left pocket, one on my ankle.

LSP552
09-12-2014, 04:15 PM
The 642/442 has filled that role for me for a long time. Before they came out, it was an airweight S&W 38. I love airweight J frames. Having said that, I'm doing my acceptance testing of a Glock 42 now. I need to put a few more rounds through it but it's probably going to replace the J frames as my pocket and ankle gun.

Ken

Duces Tecum
09-12-2014, 04:54 PM
I'm noodling around that same issue, and this is where my mind is going. Due to it's caliber I've never seriously considered the Glock 42. Regarding small revolvers, five shots of .38 Spcl. are noncompetitive when better options are available. It's not the caliber (9mm's are not much different, I don't think), it's a preference for more rounds, more quickly reloaded. And like you, I've found the Shield to be too large to be fully needs-compliant. I'd have to dress a little around the gun and that's not what I'm looking for. The Kahr PM9 ticks all the right boxes except, as you noted, the trigger. But I think I can practice with the trigger until I adjust to it. And I can't really foresee using the Kahr for low probability shots where the trigger would be more than an ego issue. "Darn it, Scotty! I was aiming for the left nostril!". My hesitation on the Kahr is it's reputation (on internet forums) for occasionally spotty reliability.

Ultimately, my needle is drifting towards the Kahr, but with the proviso that it comfortably survives a reliability course before accepting it for duty.

GJM
09-12-2014, 04:55 PM
I think you need to first settle on what style and brand basketball shorts you are planning to wear as lounge around wear. Mission drives the gear.

RevolverRob
09-12-2014, 05:09 PM
My vote is Glock 42 - not that the Shield (sans manual safety), J-frame, or LCR aren't good options. You already drink the Glock-Aid and the price is right for you - plus, they're pretty neat. I think they're the most concealable of the bunch.


The lounge gun thread will be of interest to you.

For the very job you describe I have a couple of 642s, an LCR, a S&W 317 (yes, that is in fact a .22lr) and a Glock 42, all of which work rather well for me.

The 642s are also my on duty BUGs, one in the left pocket, one on my ankle.


The 642/442 has filled that role for me for a long time. Before they came out, it was an airweight S&W 38. I love airweight J frames. Having said that, I'm doing my acceptance testing of a Glock 42 now. I need to put a few more rounds through it but it's probably going to replace the J frames as my pocket and ankle gun.

Ken

I think it says a lot when guys who collectively have probably tried every single concealed carry/pocket gun out there have settled on the 642/442 and/or the Glock 42 as their guns of choice.

I have said for years, if I were left with one gun for the rest of my life to fulfill all of my needs, it would be a 642 no-lock with CTC laser grips, and a good trigger job. Because it's a gun you can carry pretty much everywhere you want - ankle, AIWB, belly band, pocket, shoulder, strapped around your inner thigh with duct tape, in a briefcase, tucked under the driver's seat, etc. and you can be confident it will work.


I think you need to first settle on what style and brand basketball shorts you are planning to wear as lounge around wear. Mission drives the gear.

Man...sometimes you're just a hard guy to please...The discerning enthusiast wears only Under Armor quick-dry.

-Rob

Stephen
09-12-2014, 05:52 PM
If the Shield is a possibility, I think its a no-brainer to go that route over a 380 or lightweight snubbie. Especially since you said you won't pocket carry. J-frames fill a few niches very well, pocket & ankle carry in particular, but it sounds like you're more interested in discreet IWB. A Shield is just a far more capable gun.

If you do go with a snubbie, check out an LCR before you buy a j-frame. An easily replaceable front sight is a very nice feature, and the trigger is much more manageable IMO.

ranger
09-12-2014, 06:21 PM
I have a Shield 9 that I carry IWB when I do not feel I can conceal a M&P FS 9 in IWB. I would consider the Shield 9.

lightning fast
09-12-2014, 06:43 PM
I went through the same issue. I decided on the 442 + Apex and CTC for my NPE work, which is 5 days a week. I am more than happy with my decision.

I also own a Shield. It does not get used for the same role.
G42 was never even considered.

LSP972
09-12-2014, 07:09 PM
... it's probably going to replace the J frames as my pocket and ankle gun.



Say it ain't so!!!

.

LSP972
09-12-2014, 07:30 PM
Because it's (J frame) a gun you can carry pretty much everywhere you want - ankle, AIWB, belly band, pocket, shoulder, strapped around your inner thigh with duct tape, in a briefcase, tucked under the driver's seat, etc. and you can be confident it will work.




Sorry for the edit, but I don't do lasers, and I've become quite partial to the AirLites. My "only one gun" choice would be a G19, a J frame would be my second. But your quote above pretty much covers the versatility of the J frame.

I've been carrying a J frame of one sort or another, as back-up/off-duty, and in a few cases as primary, for well over thirty years… almost every day (and so has LSP552, which is why I'm REALLY surprised that the G42 might replace his 642… didn't see that one coming).

I have tried numerous mouse-type autos, but the only one I ever carried more than a few times was a stainless PPK/S (the Alabama-produced example). I had one that actually worked, and would hold less than a garbage can lid sized group at 25 yards. But its a rather heavy critter for its size, so I went back to the snubby revolver. And despite several attempts to go to a self-loader for that role, I just keep going back to the J frame. Bottom line on that is, I simply do NOT have any confidence in the .380 cartridge. The .38 Special +P, in 158gr LSWCHP trim, has an established track record… even out of a 1 7/8" barrel. The .380… not so much.

OP, I have to wonder why you dismiss pocket carry. Have you tried it? The proper holster makes ALL the difference there.

.

Dagga Boy
09-12-2014, 07:37 PM
My "not a gun....gun" is a 442 or LCR. I rarely use them. I do well with a P2000Sk in a very small fanny pack. I am also starting to work with a S&W Model 12 in a small fanny pack. I also carried, and love my S&W 296. That was a back up for a lot of years and is suitable for a lightweight back country gun as well. As far as the .380's, I carried a SiG P230 in an ankle holster as a back up to my P-220 in my duty holster. I don't mind going out with a P2000SK, Glock 26/27, etc if its a lower risk situation. I am always "uncomfortable" with a 5 shot .38 or .380 as a primary. I simply can't think of a single scenario that I feel confident in a fight with either of them.

JodyH
09-12-2014, 08:02 PM
442 or a PM9... Spalding shorts.

Sigfan26
09-12-2014, 08:08 PM
For about 6 weeks I've been struggling to decide on a small, NPE/BUG pistol and I absolutely can not decide on anything. I know there's probably not "the" answer but I'm in need of guidance or advice. The guns I've been mulling over are the M&P Shield, Glock 42, S&W 442, and the LCR.

The purpose of the gun is not to replace my (off duty) EDC, which is a G22 with a G23 sized, chopped grip but to give me more options. I need someting I can carry when mode of dress isn't friendly to a full-size pistol or when I need something smaller in general. Think church, jogging, walking to the mailbox, etc. I want something small enough that it hides easily, comfortably and conveniently but is adequate for self defense. Unfortunately my PD fails to realize the importance of BUGs so commonality with my G22 isn't really an issue due to BUGs being unauthorized. I won't pocket carry but ankle, discreet AIWB, tucked IWB, belly band, and smart carry are options.

Shield: I like that it's small yet usable. Comes in adequate calibers (I'd go 9mm), easy to find holsters, mags, sight, etc. I don't like the trigger (can be fixed) and it's maybe on the edge of being bigger than I prefer.

G42: I like it completely but I cannot get over it being .380. I'm an admitted Glock Koolaid drinker and I will confess that if it wasn't a Glock I wouldn't even consider it based on caliber alone. I know that's a bit silly but I'm being honest. I can get it blue label so the price advantage is nice too.

442: I had one in the past that I regret selling. CTC grips and an Apex kit really complete the package. I really like a j-frame but 5-shots of .38 vs. 8-shots of 9mm with faster reloads is holding me back. Plus, it's not much smaller than a Shield. I enjoy shooting a revolver and it could be a good training tool too.

LCR: see above. Just another revolver option.

I'm not interested in the G26/27 because they don't work for me in this application, I've tried. I know it makes the most sense since I carry a G22 but I can carry a compact or full-size Glock just as easily, thickness is the issue for me at this point. The PPS, although a great pistol, doesn't work for me mostly due to size and mag release. The G27 and PPS were my first two attempts and they didn't work out so I'm trying to get it right this time. I test fired a Kahr PM9, nice package but the trigger is not my cup of tea.

I'm stuck, my wheels are spinning, and I don't know what to do?

Lay your advice or suggestions on me. Keep in mind I carry my G22 successfully in most instances but I've found some short comings and that's what the smaller gun will hopefully help address. (sorry if I chose the wrong sub forum, I guess this kinda fits in autoloaders and revolvers)

Is it the way you dress that makes concealing a G26/27 hard?

Dropkick
09-12-2014, 08:22 PM
Frankly, I don't get why people advocate the S&W snub revolver when the Glock 19 is basically the same size.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OIaaz_W0WEc/UYRyHvcklOI/AAAAAAAADnU/3oyO4tdgggs/s400/IMG_2933.JPG

More comparison pictures through the following link:
http://www.totalsurvivalist.com/2013/05/living-with-my-j-frame.html

MD7305
09-12-2014, 08:44 PM
OP, I have to wonder why you dismiss pocket carry. Have you tried it? The proper holster makes ALL the difference there.

.

I've tried it in the past with a basic Safariland pocket holster holding a 442 and LCR. In jeans and khakis with the holstered gun in a front pocket it makes a huge bulge. Maybe if I found pants with larger pockets or that we're cut more generously in the thigh. I rarely carry a phone in my front pockets for the same reasons. This would be in a case involving a tucked shirt that wouldn't permit a tuckable holster otherwise the G22 would work.

Haraise
09-12-2014, 08:44 PM
As he said, it's about thickness rather than length. Slim guns conceal better. Round butts conceal better.

MD7305
09-12-2014, 08:52 PM
Is it the way you dress that makes concealing a G26/27 hard?

When I carry a G27ish sized gun it feels like a tumor. I guess it's the width in a short package. For instance I previously used a VG2 with my G27, with a tucked bloused dress shirt and it makes a noticeable bulge. My calves are thick so that makes ankle carry difficult too (no, I don't have cankles). I've ankle carried an LCR with success before, so again, the width causes issues.

My normal attire is a polo/button up/tshirt and jeans. I can conceal a G35 sized gun like that all day but when I have to wear more fitted clothing, tucked shirts, or more athletic gear I have issues, that's where I'm coming from. This is a niche gun, not an EDC replacement.

SecondsCount
09-12-2014, 08:56 PM
I like my Kahr K9. The trigger has a longer pull than a Glock which can be a good and bad thing. Good things for me is that the trigger poses less risk for an accidental discharge and it is similar to the LEM trigger which is my primary carry.

The CW9 and P9 are the polymer versions if you are looking for something lighter.

Sigfan26
09-12-2014, 09:01 PM
When I carry a G27ish sized gun it feels like a tumor. I guess it's the width in a short package. For instance I previously used a VG2 with my G27, with a tucked bloused dress shirt and it makes a noticeable bulge. My calves ate thick so that makes ankle carry difficult too. I've ankle carried an LCR with success before, so again, the width causes issues.

My normal attire is a polo/button up/tshirt and jeans. I can conceal a G35 sized gun like that all day but when I have to wear more fitted clothing, tucked shirts, or more athletic gear I have issues, that's where I'm coming from. This is a niche gun, not an EDC replacement.

Try a VG1. The gun can move with the body (it is not fixed like the vg2). While I like Raven gear, the snap loop on the vanguard kind of defeats the minimalist idea. Also, buy shirts a size bigger.

The vg1 is good. Add ungutted 550 cord and a sliding grommet as seen below, and you'll be good
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/12/77fd12055dd6b271700ff84411a0aa2f.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/12/bfd3cfdaf85c73af59a9bfd8fe110943.jpg

Sigfan26
09-12-2014, 09:05 PM
Credit all goes to DJ at American Kami knives for the above idea.

GJM
09-12-2014, 09:27 PM
I have been having the same discussion with myself. Expected to like the PPS, but it is just a little weird. Shield doesn't feel right, and I am leery of S&W after my M&P debacle in past years. LIke DB, while I have the S&W J frame and Glock 42, they just feel like more a back-up than primary.

I am going to try a 3913 (Lady Smith as it is thinner), and hoping the G42's bigger brother arrives and functions, early in 2015.

Chuck Haggard
09-12-2014, 09:42 PM
Frankly, I don't get why people advocate the S&W snub revolver when the Glock 19 is basically the same size.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OIaaz_W0WEc/UYRyHvcklOI/AAAAAAAADnU/3oyO4tdgggs/s400/IMG_2933.JPG

More comparison pictures through the following link:
http://www.totalsurvivalist.com/2013/05/living-with-my-j-frame.html

Ankle carry that G19 for one week each in your pocket and on your ankle then get back with me on "Why?"


One reason is weight, depending on which J frame, the wheelgun is less than half the weight of a G19, a 340 is pushing 1/3 of the weight.


ETA; For a belt worn gun I agree though

LSP552
09-12-2014, 10:44 PM
I've tried it in the past with a basic Safariland pocket holster holding a 442 and LCR. In jeans and khakis with the holstered gun in a front pocket it makes a huge bulge. Maybe if I found pants with larger pockets or that we're cut more generously in the thigh. I rarely carry a phone in my front pockets for the same reasons. This would be in a case involving a tucked shirt that wouldn't permit a tuckable holster otherwise the G22 would work.

I pocket carry a 642 in a Kramer Pocket Holster pretty regularly. You are correct, some pants are more conducive that others. I buy pleated dress slacks because they generally have a more generous pockets and the pleats help the cylinder bulge disappear. One of the attractions to the G42 over the J frame is the slimmer overall package.

Ken

Jay Cunningham
09-12-2014, 10:45 PM
slimmer overall package

I don't have that problem.

JodyH
09-12-2014, 11:00 PM
Frankly, I don't get why people advocate the S&W snub revolver when the Glock 19 is basically the same size.
Not even close... pictures and calipers do not tell the whole story.

LSP552
09-12-2014, 11:29 PM
I've been carrying a J frame of one sort or another, as back-up/off-duty, and in a few cases as primary, for well over thirty years… almost every day (and so has LSP552, which is why I'm REALLY surprised that the G42 might replace his 642… didn't see that one coming).

I have tried numerous mouse-type autos, but the only one I ever carried more than a few times was a stainless PPK/S (the Alabama-produced example). I had one that actually worked, and would hold less than a garbage can lid sized group at 25 yards. But its a rather heavy critter for its size, so I went back to the snubby revolver. And despite several attempts to go to a self-loader for that role, I just keep going back to the J frame. Bottom line on that is, I simply do NOT have any confidence in the .380 cartridge. The .38 Special +P, in 158gr LSWCHP trim, has an established track record… even out of a 1 7/8" barrel. The .380… not so much.

.

As you know, I've always been a J-frame guy for back-up/deep concealment/not a gun carry. I only have 150 rds through the G42 so I'm still in early test mode. However, the bottom line is it is easiest pocket pistol I've ever used to get hits with beyond bad breath range. While there are smaller .380s, they are not nearly as easy to hit with. I really think Glock got this one right; small and light enough to fit in a pocket but large enough to shoot pretty well.

Yes, the .380 isn't exactly a cannon and wouldn't be my choice to start a fight with. But, at least at this point, I'm thinking the better shootability over the 642 is worth the ballistic down check. And as an old retired guy, I not hunting bad guys or going to the ATM at midnight. I'm also not giving up the the 17 and 19 in a Summer Special 2 as my primary carry.

Like the J-frame, I see the G42 as a niche gun.

I'm a fan of the Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr. in my 642/442. The 42 is loaded with Gold Dots and I've seen some pretty decent test results (for a .380). Want to shoot it????

Ken

MGW
09-12-2014, 11:54 PM
I own a Shield, 442, and a 42. The Shield gets carried the most AIWB. If I need to pocket carry only I take the 42 with Hydrashok and a spare magazine. The J frame does dirty work. Yard work, bike rides, working in the shop, etc.

The Shield fills the most like a primary to me and would work fine as an ankle pistol with regular cleaning. A few of the local troopers are using XDs 45s in this role. Size and loaded weight are virtually the same as a Shield. The Shield doesn't work as well IWB in basketball shorts for me because it's just heavy enough to flop around to much for comfort. The 42 is perfect for this though.

I could probably live without a J frame but I like shooting it and I don't completely trust the 42 to stand up to dust, sweat, and grime yet. I had some issues early on with it but it has been fine since a trip back to Glock. I just need more test time with it to trust it completely.

To me, each pistol fits a different role. You just need to decide which role you need the most. The Shield is my favorite but I never ankle carry and don't pocket carry that often. A lot of the local PD officers are carrying Shields off duty since they switched to M&Ps I haven't heard any complaints. I believe LEO price is around $325.

Savage Hands
09-12-2014, 11:57 PM
I'm limited on 3 guns by serial number that I can carry in California and when I renew it will be between a 19, possibly another 19 or my 17 and my G42 in a DSG casual IWB that I can carry sans belt.

Dropkick
09-13-2014, 10:10 AM
Frankly, I don't get why people advocate the S&W snub revolver when the Glock 19 is basically the same size.

Re-reading that, I can see how it might come off snarky. I guess it kind of is, but at the same time I really am interested in the reasoning and learning. So I appreciate you guys replying.


Ankle carry that G19 for one week each in your pocket and on your ankle then get back with me on "Why?"
One reason is weight, depending on which J frame, the wheelgun is less than half the weight of a G19, a 340 is pushing 1/3 of the weight.
ETA; For a belt worn gun I agree though

Good point about the weight. I wouldn't even attempt to ankle carry a G19.
But at least with pocket carry I see that as a function of size first, then weight. I think the pair of BDUs I own have the largest pockets out of all my pants, and you could clearly see the magazine base plate of my G19 in it. Maybe a 642 would fit better, but I then again I wear khakis 60% of the time and jeans the other 40%. Am I missing something?


Not even close... pictures and calipers do not tell the whole story.
Could you elaborate on this? I'm not trying to be down on snubs, I just don't know what I don't know.

JodyH
09-13-2014, 10:43 AM
Could you elaborate on this? I'm not trying to be down on snubs, I just don't know what I don't know.
First, a 442 is much closer to G26 size than it is G19 size.
The overall rounded shape of the J-frame conceals and draws MUCH easier than the square grip and slide of an auto.
From a pocket it's not even close. I haven't found any auto (even the micro-autos) that draw as consistently fast as a J-frame. The rounded butt and frame don't hang up like the square slide and magazine baseplate profile of the autos.
The profile of a J-frame with it's rounded contours and multiple height/depth transitions disguises much easier then the slab sided, angular autos.
Nothing beats a J-frame when it comes to a concealable handgun in a duty caliber.
The trade off is shootability and capacity.

LSP552
09-13-2014, 11:04 AM
I don't have that problem.

Now that's just funny!

Ken

Tom Duffy
09-13-2014, 01:29 PM
What about the new Ruger LC9s? Small, striker fired 9mm, 7+1. Supposed to have a really nice trigger.

MD7305
09-13-2014, 02:44 PM
I REALLY appreciate the advice. I'm kinda coming to the conclusion that I'm not really going to know what's going to work best for me until I get my hands on something and try it out. My plan is to pick up a 442 and the next time I make it to my blue label dealer grab a G42. From there I can see which one works best and then focus on that particular gun. The G42 will at least be a decent gun for my wife to shoot (see: textbook gun purchase excuse).

Regarding 442s, locally almost all I've seen are no lock models which is great. Yesterday I came across a ProSeries 442 that uses moonclips, seems cool. I never knew a j-frame could be had with moonclips. LGS clerk says it can also be used without moonclips, is that legit?

LSP552
09-13-2014, 03:02 PM
I REALLY appreciate the advice. I'm kinda coming to the conclusion that I'm not really going to know what's going to work best for me until I get my hands on something and try it out. My plan is to pick up a 442 and the next time I make it to my blue label dealer grab a G42. From there I can see which one works best and then focus on that particular gun. The G42 will at least be a decent gun for my wife to shoot (see: textbook gun purchase excuse).

Regarding 442s, locally almost all I've seen are no lock models which is great. Yesterday I came across a ProSeries 442 that uses moonclips, seems cool. I never knew a j-frame could be had with moonclips. LGS clerk says it can also be used without moonclips, is that legit?

I think that's a good plan. Everyone is different and things like age, eye sight, hand strength and just preference makes a difference. If it were me, I'd avoid the moon clip J-frames. The clips are easy to bend and it's harder to conceal a reload than with speed strips.

Good luck!

Ken

RevolverRob
09-13-2014, 03:47 PM
Good point about the weight. I wouldn't even attempt to ankle carry a G19.
But at least with pocket carry I see that as a function of size first, then weight. I think the pair of BDUs I own have the largest pockets out of all my pants, and you could clearly see the magazine base plate of my G19 in it. Maybe a 642 would fit better, but I then again I wear khakis 60% of the time and jeans the other 40%. Am I missing something?

I'm not sure what you're asking here - Are you asking if you're missing something about pocket carry or about J-Frames and pocket carry? As Jody said the different height, smooth/curved shape of the J-Frame makes it much, much, easier to conceal. If you think about it, what's bulkier in your pocket, a paperback novel or a bar of soap? The soap weighs more and is thicker, yet I bet it fits better in your pocket than a book. Even if you had a bar of soap and the book at the same size, the roundness of the soap would still be less bulky. Same story with small autos and revolvers the difference in shapes, widths, heights, etc. makes the revolver more "organic" in the pocket.

With khakis and jeans, a J-Frame should be fairly easy to conceal in a pocket, provided you have moderately deep pockets (literally, not figuratively). For instance, I have a couple of pairs of pants where a gun, any gun, wouldn't fit in the pockets, but most casual/relaxed fit khakis, jeans, cargo pants, etc. All fit a loaded .38 without a problem.


Could you elaborate on this? I'm not trying to be down on snubs, I just don't know what I don't know.

I guess my suggestion would be to get a blue gun of a J-Frame and try it.

FYI - That might be a good suggestion for this thread - BLUE guns for potential pocket/ankle/etc. guns - Are cheaper than buying multiple guns.

-Rob

MGW
09-13-2014, 05:26 PM
I REALLY appreciate the advice. I'm kinda coming to the conclusion that I'm not really going to know what's going to work best for me until I get my hands on something and try it out. My plan is to pick up a 442 and the next time I make it to my blue label dealer grab a G42. From there I can see which one works best and then focus on that particular gun. The G42 will at least be a decent gun for my wife to shoot (see: textbook gun purchase excuse).

Regarding 442s, locally almost all I've seen are no lock models which is great. Yesterday I came across a ProSeries 442 that uses moonclips, seems cool. I never knew a j-frame could be had with moonclips. LGS clerk says it can also be used without moonclips, is that legit?

I would stick with a standard no lock if you can find it and spend the money you save in ammo or an apex kit. The 442 I have is a pro model. There is really no advantage to it over a standard no lock. The trigger is a little smoother out of the box but it's still the same pull weight as a standard J frame as far as I can tell.

I have a moon clip on the rounds loaded in the pistol. The idea is to insure that all the brass ejects cleanly if I need to reload. Reloading a j frame with hollow points in a moon clip is a pain in the arse. Also I had to relieve the factory stocks a little to get empties with moon clips to eject cleanly.

When I bought mine it was the only no lock I could find locally and the price was reasonable.

MD7305
09-13-2014, 06:05 PM
Thanks, the price between the Pro and standard no-lock 442 was $30 so that pays for the Apex kit. My last j had an apex kit in it before I sold it in a moment of weakness. The kit made a big difference in my opinion.

LSP972
09-13-2014, 07:57 PM
Want to shoot it????



Sure. Ought to be interesting next to my Remington 51.

One assumes you're not seeing the POI issues we experienced with our P230s?

.

MGW
09-13-2014, 09:18 PM
Thanks, the price between the Pro and standard no-lock 442 was $30 so that pays for the Apex kit. My last j had an apex kit in it before I sold it in a moment of weakness. The kit made a big difference in my opinion.

Was that first responder price? I haven't checked in a while.

Up1911Fan
09-13-2014, 10:53 PM
Was that first responder price? I haven't checked in a while.

I was quoted $330 for a no lock 442.

warpedcamshaft
09-14-2014, 01:15 AM
I like the J-Frame with a Safariland Hip Grip and a pocket holster available... The Hip Grip adds a lot of versatility, and it still fits fairly well in the pocket if a situation arises where I need it there.

I've tried a lot of firearms and found that:
The Shield is too big to fit in almost all of my pockets, it'd be a IWB pistol for me.

I can't get enough grip on the PM9/CM9 to feel comfortable drawing and firing it consistently, and possibly retaining it in the "F.U.T." (I have large hands)

The Glock 42 is a 380... And I can't quite bring myself to go to the 380... (The grip configuration of the 42 allows me to get my hand higher, and I feel my grip is much stronger than with the PM9/CM9.)

For me... The J-frame fills the role of a "no print option" adequately... It gives me a few carry options when I can't hide a bigger firearm.

MD7305
09-14-2014, 08:43 AM
Linkscoach, that was the LGS price. I haven't looked into the first responder pricing yet.

MD7305
09-14-2014, 08:45 AM
I was quoted $330 for a no lock 442.

If you don't mind telling, where did you get the quote? PM if you like. That's about $100 cheaper than at my LGS so that's a significant deal.

MD7305
09-14-2014, 08:48 AM
I like the J-Frame with a Safariland Hip Grip and a pocket holster available... The Hip Grip adds a lot of versatility, and it still fits fairly well in the pocket if a situation arises where I need it there.

I've tried a lot of firearms and found that:
The Shield is too big to fit in almost all of my pockets, it'd be a IWB pistol for me.

I can't get enough grip on the PM9/CM9 to feel comfortable drawing and firing it consistently, and possibly retaining it in the "F.U.T." (I have large hands)

The Glock 42 is a 380... And I can't quite bring myself to go to the 380... (The grip configuration of the 42 allows me to get my hand higher, and I feel my grip is much stronger than with the PM9/CM9.)

For me... The J-frame fills the role of a "no print option" adequately... It gives me a few carry options when I can't hide a bigger firearm.

Yeah, you and I are on the exact same page on most every point. I appreciate the advice, hopefully I can make the right choice and spare the expense and trouble of buying 4 guns.

MGW
09-14-2014, 09:17 AM
If you don't mind telling, where did you get the quote? PM if you like. That's about $100 cheaper than at my LGS so that's a significant deal.

That's pretty close to what I remember Quantico quoting a couple years ago. You might also contact G and R tactical. But any authorized S&W dealer should be able to get first responder prices with credentials.

Beat Trash
09-14-2014, 09:51 AM
If you don't mind telling, where did you get the quote? PM if you like. That's about $100 cheaper than at my LGS so that's a significant deal.

Check your PM please.

EM_
09-14-2014, 09:51 AM
Kind of late to the thread, but I'll echo nyeti and GJM. I have bought and sold more J frames and D frames than I can remember. I never really felt adequately armed with them, but I still have a fascination with them.

I carry a G23 all the time, with a G27 on the ankle. I really can't fathom the scenario in which I couldn't conceal at least a G27. Mileage varies.

I really think outside of fashion considerations that nyeti's loyalty to the fanny pack is a wonderful idea. It holds everything one needs and is comfortable, especially if you have back issues from decades of wearing a gun belt, etc. Also, no one besides gun nuts like us know they hold guns. Normal folks just think your fashion-illiterate.

But for $330 I might pick up a no-lock 442 ;) And I am also hoping for the G43 (maybe) to show up in 9mm early next year.

LSP552
09-14-2014, 10:01 AM
One assumes you're not seeing the POI issues we experienced with our P230s?

.

Nope, my 42 is POA/POI out to 15 yrds. Haven't made it to JESTC to check 25.

Ken

Chuck Haggard
09-14-2014, 11:26 AM
Getting a master shooting grip in the draw is something that a lot of folks don't appreciate as being an advantage of the snub vs many small semi-autos pistols, but in my experience it's kind of a big deal.

MGW
09-14-2014, 05:06 PM
Nyeti needs to write a fanny pack article.

MD7305
09-14-2014, 05:26 PM
Nyeti needs to write the most epic cop book of modern history. I'll pre-order a copy for each member of my shift now.

EDIT: Chuck, Chuck needs to write a book too. As a young-ish patrol cop I really soak up all the advice these gents give.

I agree though, while the fanny pack isn't the coolest thing ever it's pretty useful. I've got a streamline running style "pouch" that could be used for gels, cell phone, keys, etc. that should hold a j-frame easily. I prefer the smaller size because I can't stand a large pack constantly flopping around when I run.

Edmo
09-14-2014, 10:52 PM
OK, I'm apparently not one of the cool kids and missed the ninja acronym memo...

What is "NPE"??

Edmo

JDM
09-14-2014, 10:55 PM
OK, I'm apparently not one of the cool kids and missed the ninja acronym memo...

What is "NPE"??

Edmo

Non Permissive Environment (for carrying a firearm).

warpedcamshaft
09-15-2014, 01:08 AM
The context of these conversations is also important in my mind...

I think one of the most overlooked factors in many of these discussions is: what are the consequences for being "made" as a individual carrying a firearm... and being reported/confronted by law enforcement? (This can be very different as an off-duty law enforcement officer vs a non-law enforcement officer.)

Claude Werner's advice has been really valuable to me... I personally CAN'T ALWAYS CHOOSE HOW I DRESS!!! I can't always "dress around the gun", or wear a fanny pack due to dress codes and career choices. There are also places I can legally carry, but it would be a life altering situation if I was "made."

secondstoryguy
09-15-2014, 09:25 AM
I've been messing with a 9mm Shield as an off-duty gun for shorts/t-shirt carry here in Texas. It's a little large for a pocket carry but it's working really well for me as an IWB carry gun. I carry it AIWB in a home made kydex rig and it's more concealable and comfortable than the G26 it replaced. I thing some of the comfort issue it has to do with the G26's poor "balance"...most of the 26s weight is on the handle.

NEPAKevin
09-15-2014, 11:59 AM
I thing some of the comfort issue it has to do with the G26's poor "balance"...most of the 26s weight is on the handle.

While the balance issue is more pronounced for compact autos with double stack magazines, for me, with the exception of mouse guns, autos are "butt heavy" for front pocket carry which is why my preference is for revolvers that have the weight where it helps keep the gun both in the pocket and the grip up where it is easier for me to grab.

Chuck Haggard
09-15-2014, 12:21 PM
While the balance issue is more pronounced for compact autos with double stack magazines, for me, with the exception of mouse guns, autos are "butt heavy" for front pocket carry which is why my preference is for revolvers that have the weight where it helps keep the gun both in the pocket and the grip up where it is easier for me to grab.

^This^ is why I have always thought a Centennial style snub with all of the uber lightweight parts but the barrel off of a 640 would be just about perfect. Light to carry, a bit of weight on the front end to decrease muzzle flip and to help keep the gun oriented in the pocket.

RevolverRob
09-15-2014, 02:55 PM
^This^ is why I have always thought a Centennial style snub with all of the uber lightweight parts but the barrel off of a 640 would be just about perfect. Light to carry, a bit of weight on the front end to decrease muzzle flip and to help keep the gun oriented in the pocket.

They made a similar gun - A 642 with a 2.5" barrel and pinned front sight. Pic stolen from the internets. I've never seen one in person, but I've always wanted one, seems like about the perfect J-Frame. Edit: I guess you meant a Scandium gun not an airweight, sorry.

http://i.imgur.com/6VYSW00.jpg

Chuck Haggard
09-15-2014, 02:58 PM
I have seen those on the internets, but never one in real life. They could have left the lock out and made it dang near perfect.

TR675
09-15-2014, 03:43 PM
They could have left the lock out and made it dang near perfect.

I could fill a book with the small changes S&W could have done to make their guns dang near perfect. Starting with making more 3" barreled Model 13's.

JR1572
09-15-2014, 04:54 PM
They made a similar gun - A 642 with a 2.5" barrel and pinned front sight. Pic stolen from the internets. I've never seen one in person, but I've always wanted one, seems like about the perfect J-Frame. Edit: I guess you meant a Scandium gun not an airweight, sorry.

http://i.imgur.com/6VYSW00.jpg

I want that.

I just saved it on my camera roll. Picture 642. Creepy.

JR1572

Up1911Fan
09-15-2014, 07:19 PM
I'm currently using a Shield for the uses you described. I do plan on adding a J Frame or 42 for pocket carry though.

Crow Hunter
09-16-2014, 07:27 AM
While the balance issue is more pronounced for compact autos with double stack magazines, for me, with the exception of mouse guns, autos are "butt heavy" for front pocket carry which is why my preference is for revolvers that have the weight where it helps keep the gun both in the pocket and the grip up where it is easier for me to grab.

This is going to sound silly but I did an experiment several months ago after aquiring my 642. It was noticably lighter than my G26 fully loaded.

However, I don't shoot it anywhere near as accurately or as quickly as I do the G26. I also can't reload it as fast.

So I took all but 5 rouns out of the G26 magazine.

It DRAMATICALLY dropped the weight of the G26. To the point that in my hand, they "felt" the same and did not drag my pants down in a pocket holster.

A 5 or 6 shot automatic that I can shoot much faster and more accurately that also has the ability to be reloaded very quickly compared to a 5 shot revolver that requires speed strips (that are anything but for me) is superior. I would rather have a G26 with 5 rounds in it and a spare magazine (even if only loaded with 5 rounds) than a 642 with 5 rounds and a speed strip.

Now it still has the bulk from the square slide and double stack grip, but using stocks on the 642 that allow me to grip & shoot it decently (Pacmeyer Compac) make it more almost as bulky as the G26.

That is why my 642 is on the chopping block and will be replaced with the G42 my wife keeps bugging me about.

Mike C
09-16-2014, 09:06 AM
Crow Hunter out of curiosity do you remember those numbers in comparison with the rounds stripped? I wouldn't normally ask but I do not have a G26 to weigh.

LSP972
09-16-2014, 09:50 AM
We have a super-duper, jump-back, HSLD Toledo industrial scale here at the lab. Its calibration is checked every month per scientific standards, etc. It is precise to hundredths of a pound, for big stuff... mainly bags of dope, but whatever needs weighing that is not small enough to be done on the micrometer scales.

I just so happen to have a brand new Gen 4 G26 on my bench, waiting for its test regimen.

I loaded ten rounds of 124gr HST +P in one unaltered 10 round magazine, and five rounds in the other.

With the 10 round mag, the pistol weighs 1.60#.

With the five round mag, it weighs 1.50#.

Methinks Crow Hunter may be experiencing some psychological idiopathic transference phenomena...;)

.
BTW... my M-360PD AirLite snubby, carrying five 135gr Gold Dots, weighs 0.85#. An AirWeight version would add several extra ounces, but I suspect it will still be lighter than a G26... and a damn sight easier in the pocket.

Just sayin'...

Chuck Whitlock
09-16-2014, 10:22 AM
The Kahr PM9 ticks all the right boxes except, as you noted, the trigger. But I think I can practice with the trigger until I adjust to it. And I can't really foresee using the Kahr for low probability shots where the trigger would be more than an ego issue. "Darn it, Scotty! I was aiming for the left nostril!".

Ultimately, my needle is drifting towards the Kahr, but with the proviso that it comfortably survives a reliability course before accepting it for duty.

I don't really get why folks have an issue with the Kahr trigger, but don't think twice about a DA revolver trigger.


I like my Kahr K9. The trigger has a longer pull than a Glock which can be a good and bad thing. Good things for me is that the trigger poses less risk for an accidental discharge and it is similar to the LEM trigger which is my primary carry.

The CW9 and P9 are the polymer versions if you are looking for something lighter.




I can't get enough grip on the PM9/CM9 to feel comfortable drawing and firing it consistently, and possibly retaining it in the "F.U.T." (I have large hands)

The Glock 42 is a 380... And I can't quite bring myself to go to the 380... (The grip configuration of the 42 allows me to get my hand higher, and I feel my grip is much stronger than with the PM9/CM9.)


Getting a master shooting grip in the draw is something that a lot of folks don't appreciate as being an advantage of the snub vs many small semi-autos pistols, but in my experience it's kind of a big deal.

The extra grip length of the CW9 works perfectly for me because of this. It is not a pocket gun, though.


This is going to sound silly but I did an experiment several months ago after aquiring my 642. It was noticably lighter than my G26 fully loaded.

However, I don't shoot it anywhere near as accurately or as quickly as I do the G26. I also can't reload it as fast.

So I took all but 5 rouns out of the G26 magazine.

It DRAMATICALLY dropped the weight of the G26. To the point that in my hand, they "felt" the same and did not drag my pants down in a pocket holster.

In my hand there was a dramatic difference between the G26 and the Kahr CW9, not only in grip length/girth ratio but in weight. And not so much total weight but weight displacement. I used to carry a K40 in an Andrews Solo shoulder rig with excellent results. A G26/27 in a Galco Jackass rig modified to mimic the Solo was a total disaster....due to practically ALL the weight being in the butt.

The G26 went away, due to not doing anything that my G19 or CW9 couldn't do better. (POA/POI was off with it, too, FWIW)

Sheep Have Wool
09-16-2014, 10:31 AM
BTW... my M-360PD AirLite snubby, carrying five 135gr Gold Dots, weighs 0.85#. An AirWeight version would add several extra ounces, but I suspect it will still be lighter than a G26... and a damn sight easier in the pocket

Thanks for the data, LSP972.

Is it possible that the distribution of weight is the key here, though? In the snubby, the cylinder would have the most mass while the G26 would have its weight distributed along the length of the slide. Might account for differences in "felt" weight.

Crow Hunter
09-16-2014, 10:43 AM
We have a super-duper, jump-back, HSLD Toledo industrial scale here at the lab. Its calibration is checked every month per scientific standards, etc. It is precise to hundredths of a pound, for big stuff... mainly bags of dope, but whatever needs weighing that is not small enough to be done on the micrometer scales.

I just so happen to have a brand new Gen 4 G26 on my bench, waiting for its test regimen.

I loaded ten rounds of 124gr HST +P in one unaltered 10 round magazine, and five rounds in the other.

With the 10 round mag, the pistol weighs 1.60#.

With the five round mag, it weighs 1.50#.

Methinks Crow Hunter may be experiencing some psychological idiopathic transference phenomena...;)

.
BTW... my M-360PD AirLite snubby, carrying five 135gr Gold Dots, weighs 0.85#. An AirWeight version would add several extra ounces, but I suspect it will still be lighter than a G26... and a damn sight easier in the pocket.

Just sayin'...

That is why I said it was silly and "felt" lighter.;)

My 642 has Pachmeyer (sp) Compac grips on it rather than the lighter and smaller boot grips which probably influences it even more. The 642 is .93 lbs according to S&W.

But the G26 is still heavier and fatter. Although I still prefer it in a Mach2 pocket holster to the 642 with the Compac grips in the pocket.

The size/weight of the G26 is why my wife wants a G42.

As a matter of fact she made that comment again last night. She is going on a trip today and is carrying the G26 in her purse and wanted to carry it while doing some hiking/exercising. She said that if I would hurry up and get her a G42 she wouldn't have to wander around on hiking trails wearing a fashion faux pas fanny pack.

I tried to tell her that a very famous firearms trainer really likes fanny packs...:D

LSP972
09-16-2014, 10:56 AM
Thanks for the data, LSP972.

Is it possible that the distribution of weight is the key here, though? In the snubby, the cylinder would have the most mass while the G26 would have its weight distributed along the length of the slide. Might account for differences in "felt" weight.

Could be, depending on the size/shape of a given pocket, whether or not the wearer has thunder thighs, etc.

I have carried one in a front pocket for so long now, I feel wrong if it isn't in there. I had a PM9 at one time, and it carried just as nicely. I decided to stay with the revolver, however, as the odds of having to make a contact shot with my pocket gun are quite good... and self-loaders don't fare well in that venue.

The real key to comfortable, usable pocket carry is the holster. You can perhaps get away with using an Uncle Mike's sausage sack, but a properly constructed leather example is SO much better.

.

LSP972
09-16-2014, 11:02 AM
I tried to tell her that a very famous firearms trainer really likes fanny packs...:D

Better get off your arse and buy that gal what she wants. Such opportunity doesn't knock often.

As for that very famous firearms trainer re fanny packs... that's just his Inner Kalifornian coming out. One would think Brother Dobbs had fixed that by now...:D

.

Dagga Boy
09-16-2014, 07:47 PM
Better get off your arse and buy that gal what she wants. Such opportunity doesn't knock often.

As for that very famous firearms trainer re fanny packs... that's just his Inner Kalifornian coming out. One would think Brother Dobbs had fixed that by now...:D

.


I have been encouraged by not only Chuck Haggard, who also wears a bag filled with things we like, and Matthew McConaughey. Do I even need to bring up Hulk Hogan.........haters gonna hate, but they are coming back.

Malamute
09-16-2014, 08:03 PM
They made a similar gun - A 642 with a 2.5" barrel and pinned front sight. Pic stolen from the internets. I've never seen one in person, but I've always wanted one, seems like about the perfect J-Frame. Edit: I guess you meant a Scandium gun not an airweight, sorry.

http://i.imgur.com/6VYSW00.jpg

If the 2 1/2" guns are rare, check with Brownells and see if they have the barrels. Their paper catalog has been much easier for me to find things than their web site. calling Smith may be worthwhile also.

As top the revolver vs auto in the pocket, I think one factor in the revolvers favor is the gun is tapered towards the front end, not chunky, square and blocky. The revolver also is thinner in diagonal. People compare them height and length, but put them side by side and theres a bit blocky part of the auto sticking up above where the hammer would be on a revolver.

I'd like to try a good pocket holster, I've been carrying just in the pocket with a speed loader. I have to fix the spots the front sight wears in the pocket every now and then. Been thinking of having the pocket lined in canvas.

LSP972
09-16-2014, 08:16 PM
.......haters gonna hate, but they are coming back.

Good to know. I will gladly refrain from being trendy.;)

.

Dagga Boy
09-16-2014, 08:42 PM
Good to know. I will gladly refrain from being trendy.;)

.

If you change your mind, I have several brand new black "old" Eagle fanny packs ready to go for a couple decades of being in. I'll be easy to spot at the senior home.....walker with the tennis balls painted like skulls, Spartan Lambda on the oxygen tank, crocs, ugly shorts, and a black fanny pack with a real gun inside......probably back to a 1911.:cool:

Chuck Haggard
09-16-2014, 09:02 PM
What's wrong with fanny packs?

LSP552
09-16-2014, 11:07 PM
What's wrong with fanny packs?

Nothing! I use a green Eagle Industries LE style fanny pack with Glock 19 and spare mag when in shorts, taking out the garbage, on the beach, in the boat ,or anytime I want a real gun but I'm not dressed for it. No one has ever said a thing.

LSP972
09-17-2014, 05:08 AM
Nothing! I use a green Eagle Industries LE style fanny pack with Glock 19 and spare mag when in shorts, taking out the garbage, on the beach, in the boat ,or anytime I want a real gun but I'm not dressed for it. No one has ever said a thing.

YOU TOO????? Say it ain't so!!!!

Dunno, I just find it… better… to go with IWB under a loose, square-cut-bottom button-up shirt.

.

JodyH
09-17-2014, 06:57 AM
Coming out thread?

JHC
09-17-2014, 07:19 AM
What's wrong with fanny packs?

Exactly. I have a $6 neon green cheapie for those "lounge around" working around the house, drop off recycling Sat morning after the work out situations when the Ranger panties won't suspend the weight of my G26.

TR675
09-17-2014, 07:59 AM
So can you jog/run in these fanny pack things without them flopping around too much? Say with just a j-frame inside.

Drang
09-17-2014, 09:00 AM
So can you jog/run in these fanny pack things without them flopping around too much? Say with just a j-frame inside.

Depends on the design and construction, but the Tommy's Packs are pretty good for this. Fpr example, the current Deal of the Day:
The Low-Pro Tommy's Gun Pack (https://www.tommysgunpack.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TGP-044-sale)

Wondering Beard
09-17-2014, 03:59 PM
Nothing! I use a green Eagle Industries LE style fanny pack with Glock 19 and spare mag when in shorts, taking out the garbage, on the beach, in the boat ,or anytime I want a real gun but I'm not dressed for it. No one has ever said a thing.

Same here for the same type of reasons/occasions

Wondering Beard
09-17-2014, 04:02 PM
So can you jog/run in these fanny pack things without them flopping around too much? Say with just a j-frame inside.

I don't really jog/run but I found that draping it across my chest instead of around my waist felt better.

TR675
09-17-2014, 04:25 PM
Depends on the design and construction, but the Tommy's Packs are pretty good for this. Fpr example, the current Deal of the Day:
The Low-Pro Tommy's Gun Pack (https://www.tommysgunpack.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TGP-044-sale)

Thanks. That looks thin enough to slip under athletic shorts without looking too funny.


I don't really jog/run but I found that draping it across my chest instead of around my waist felt better.

Like a bandolier? I may be unself-conscious enough to wear a fannypack, but not unself-conscious enough to wear it like that...:p

RevolverRob
09-17-2014, 04:49 PM
Thanks. That looks thin enough to slip under athletic shorts without looking too funny.



Like a bandolier? I may be unself-conscious enough to wear a fannypack, but not unself-conscious enough to wear it like that...:p

Hill People Gear Bag a little too fashion-backwards for you?

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12275-Thoughts-on-the-Hill-People-Gear-Kit-Bags&highlight=Hill+People
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?535

Not as cheap at the Tommy Gun packs. When I was running and I wanted something low profile, J-Frame + Belly Band, or super low profile, fixed blade + belly band, but I found it did get the weapon in question pretty sweaty. I switched to swimming for cardio and have not found a way to hide a gun while swimming, but admittedly haven't tried really either. I guess I worry less in a heated pool at the university gym.

Wondering Beard
09-18-2014, 05:04 PM
Like a bandolier? I may be unself-conscious enough to wear a fannypack, but not unself-conscious enough to wear it like that...:p

Basically yes.

The people I see running/jogging around here wear all sorts of weird (to me) electronics all over their body, I would imagine that a small fanny pack across the chest would just look like a way to put all those electronics together in one spot. Hell, you might even start a trend :p

45dotACP
09-21-2014, 03:31 PM
Truthfully, I don't go armed while on a run. Maybe it's presumptous, but I wouldn't think the average mugger considers a guy in workout clothes with no iPod (I'm old school, I run to a cadence I sing under my breath) to be the best score...What does he think I have? A wallet? And is he really going to pick up and run after me to come get it? I run at a fairly decent clip and if he can actually get my attention and have enough air in his lungs to demand my things, he'll get a half bottle of water that's mostly backwash anyways....

This is just my personal philosophy. If I do run into (oh dear, the puns) a criminal who either plans to just out and out kill me for grins, or somebody so determined to see what's in the sweaty pockets of my mesh workout shorts that he actually starts running after me, I'll probably just pick up the pace. If, on the off chance, the incredibly well conditioned mugger catches me, I'll just have to rely on the ol' Jiu Jitsu

As for a good NPE gun, I always liked the Ruger LCR. The trigger on that gun is just plain nice compared to the typical snubbie. That with a laser grip would be my personal choice.

BN
09-21-2014, 06:24 PM
I saw a guy running the other day. He had a fanny pack in the front with 2 water bottles.

I've been running/walking carrying an Airlite J-frame in a Raven Vanguard 2. I wear pants with a Wilderness belt. I forget it's there. But I run kinda slow. :)

MD7305
09-21-2014, 09:19 PM
Nevermind...VG2 question answered via PM. Thanks