S&W SD9VE 2,000 round test thread

[Sean O]

Received the test SD9 today and had a chance to look it over and fire the first few rounds of the planned 2,000. For those who don't want the long story, in the short 225 rounds I have through it: the trigger is manageable, sights are useable, and so far it has worked fine. Now onto the details-

How it comes:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5579/15017995097_8b73db2923_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT69HX)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5560/15204188342_1c43ef2afb_s.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3920/15017890000_82305b1497_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT5BtW)


Here are some comparison pics with a Sigma,G19 and P-07

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3857/15204187422_ef2afda7e8_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/paxrds)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5584/15017887640_e255bb6928_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT5AMf)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3864/15017873040_124156ca8a_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT5wrw)

[Sean O]

Weight:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5562/15201515171_a8b2004afe_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/paiJRa)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3915/15181534186_1def24bfc0_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p8xkcq)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3921/15017880460_30af0d03df_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT5yDs)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5570/15017996137_21cfb2edd9_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT6a2T)

More comparison pics of the size difference between the G19 and SD9:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3904/15204192532_c9d3e8673f_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/paxsJy)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3850/15204562375_4c0404649e_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pazmFa)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/15204561985_0809d29cf5_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pazmyr)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3848/15017991227_8a71c233cc_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT68ze)

[Sean O]

Lets get into the guts. Top to bottom: G19,SD9,Sigma:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5558/15017894430_ecd5d78c7b_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT5CNj)

Notice while the G19 slide is a tad shorter, the barrels are about flush.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5570/15201522341_159e8a1f0d_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/paiLYM)

One glaring difference I noticed between the Sigma slide and the SD9 slide is the extractor:

SD9
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3862/15017997947_85b99fa20a_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT6az6)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3913/15181546886_45e88467ac_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p8xoYo)

Sigma
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5590/15017990038_939eee8077_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT68dJ)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3906/15204178122_a8bce87651_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/paxos7)

[Sean O]

Frame and trigger. Left to right: Sigma, SD9, G19

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5553/15017988788_6731253ba1_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT67Rb)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/15204177742_456a485d91_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/paxoky)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5562/15017988328_07edde7f97_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT67Hf)

Notice the difference between the Sigma (L) and SD9 (C)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5558/15204553505_300239ab25_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pazj3e)

The SD9 rails are not molded into the frame. Potential problem if the round count was high? (I do not mean just 2,000 rounds) The Sigma rails are part of the frame.

SD9
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3871/15017784959_29f249bff0_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT55fT)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5564/15204567935_f4ac99fccf_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pazok2)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3890/15181546116_44941407ee_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p8xoK7)

[Sean O]

Sigma

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5562/15204567275_4c6f919c94_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pazo8D)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3879/15017996627_51599de9dd_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT6abk)

The only problem I noticed out of the box was a little splinter on the slide. Thankfully it broke off easily with a knife. Sorry for the picture, it is all I was able to do with the best camera ever: iPhone.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5562/15204547735_e3e77f69cd_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pazhjK)

The magazines are interesting. The Sigma magazines do indeed work and function flawlessly, and the magazine body and follower appear identical. The base plate of the SD9 is more akin to the M&P, which is a HUGE improvement on how it feels in the hand. I have not bothered to take the springs out yet and compare them. SD9 magazine has the round base plate.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5563/15181544796_6794860d06_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p8xomm)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/15017891110_e5b27e83a9_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT5BP5)

Time to go test!

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3899/15017872220_de5fc5bc56_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT5wco)

[5pins]

Having seen that some real changes have been done, my curiosity has peaked. Looking forward to more.

[JM Campbell]

OP if you plan on keeping that pistol and find the trigger sub par shoot me a PM. I have a APEX polymer trigger for it, purchased by mistake and has no home.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Sean O]

9/10/14

After the pictures I did a quick wipe down of the gun and lubed it with some slip 2000. Once at the range I loaded up 25 rounds Remington Golden Saber 124 that was given to me. I started with with this ammo for a few reasons:

1- It was free.
2- I can see someone who buys a budget pistol like this just loading up some hollow points without shooting first.
3- The 124gr Golden Saber is not dentist approved for carry, so I do not plan to use it for anything but target practice anyway.

The very first thing I did was a dot torture at 3 yards. My score was 48/50. I threw the very first shot low as I tried to slam my way through the new longer and heavier trigger. Oops. I settled down and was running the drill clean until I got to the WHO dot, which I pulled one shot left. The trigger does require me to concentrate more than the Glock I am used to, but is very workable. Later in the session I was having no problems keeping 10 rounds into a 2" circle at 7 yards.

I also performed a couple Mozambique drills from the high compressed ready. All runs were at 7 yards, clean and broke down as follows:

2.41: 1.21/.28/.92 (Trigger freeze when transitioned to the 3x5 card)
1.90: .99/.28/.63
1.74: .86/.24/.64

Overall it was a good 1 hour session, with the 225 round count breaking down like this:

Rem Golden Saber 124 gr: 25rd
Federal Value pack 115 gr: 100rd
Rem UMC 115 gr: 50rd
Freedom Munitions 115 gr reman: 50 rounds

The Freedom Munitions will be the majority of the test ammo, but I plan on buying at least 100 rd of WWB for the same reasons I used the UMC and Federal Value pack. I want to see how the gun handles the WalMart special-of-the-day ammo.

I will keep more detail like this in my journal from now on, and give more general updates in this page. If there is anything someone wants to see or is curious about please feel free to ask.

[Sean O]

A quick note on the trigger- I ran some Bill drills at 7 yards and was able to get splits as low as .17. Most splits were between .21-.23 seconds, so I am thinking that with a little break in the trigger will be pretty usable. I have to say if the gun stays reliable, I will be genuinely excited to see what this $310 pistol will do when the $20 apex kit is added.

[Tamara]

I would bet that this pistol has now busted more caps than an actual statistical majority of SD9s ever will.

[ranger]

I was one of the people who suggested the SD9. I bought one for $275 new at my favorite LGS a while back. I am very interested in watching this study. I have not shot mine because of too many weekend drills and I am shooting my M&P 9 with the limited range time I have. I think (hope!) the SD9 surprises us all!

[Sean O]

9/11/2014

Another hour of practice, another 265 rounds through the pistol.

There was a light primer strike on round 483. I had 30 rounds left and the gun was pretty warm already, so I decide to do a couple mag dumps to heat the gun up and see what kind of split times I could achieve at 3 yards. First mag went fine, I reloaded and 8 rounds later this happened:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3854/15211499392_f94e22a38d_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pbbUNU)

The round was put back into the gun after examinination and it did fire, so one stoppage goes toward the gun.

Summary:

Total range time: 2 hours
Total round count: 490
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

The gun is proving to be a little too slick for my liking. The texturing looks nice but does not provide much grip. They do make decal grips for this if someone was so inclined, and to be honest I am tempted. The other problem I'm having with the grip is the short rounded trigger guard. I find I need to tuck my left hand in more than I am used to doing with my Glock, which is kind of annoying.

Tomorrow I am getting outdoors with another well known forum member and getting some real practice in. With luck, there will be a fun announcement to follow.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3893/15025321597_f8055db3cc_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oTJGCV)

[frozentundra]

I have been curious how SD9's group at 25 yards, since so many M&P 9's have had issues.

[LittleLebowski]

Excellent thread, thank you for contributing this.

[Sean O]

I have been curious how SD9's group at 25 yards, since so many M&P 9's have had issues.

I will most likely do this at some point, probably with the Remington Golden Saber 124 gr just because I have 50 rounds of that left. Honestly that is a huge hole in my game (I'm working on it) so consider that when viewing the results. The best score I scored during the Pannone class (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11702-AAR-Mike-Pannone-(CTT-Solutions)-2-Day-Advanced-Handgun) was an 89, that was offhand with what turns out to be crap ammo though.

[okie john]

Interesting test. I'm especially curious to hear how the Apex part work.


Okie John

[Sean O]

Another 206 rounds through the gun without any problems this afternoon. I also received the holster and mag carrier today so I was able to get a much better practice session in.

Total range time: 4 hours
Total round count: 696
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3919/15220835745_318d74aa3d_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pc1Lbv)

Total round count planned for the gun has gone to 2,500. After the 2,000 round mark I will clean the gun and install the Apex spring kit for the last 500 rounds. That way I will be able to give it a more thorough review.

As for the announcement:

I owe a lot to this forum and its members. I owe even more to TLG. Knowing that, you probably guessed that the holster and mag carrier being orange is not a coincidence. Assuming this gun turns out okay and doesn't crap the bed, once I am done testing it I plan to put it up for auction. That's the SD9 with four mags, JM Custom Kydex AIWB clip on holster and mag carrier. Whatever the package sells for will go to Todd's charity. (http://rampageforthecure.org)

[JM Campbell]

I still have a polymer APEX replacement trigger (Glock non hinged style) that I would be happy to donate for the cause and charity sale off.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Sean O]

Great! PM inbound.

[LittleLebowski]

Another 206 rounds through the gun without any problems this afternoon. I also received the holster and mag carrier today so I was able to get a much better practice session in.

Total range time: 4 hours
Total round count: 696
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3919/15220835745_318d74aa3d_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pc1Lbv)

Total round count planned for the gun has gone to 2,500. After the 2,000 round mark I will clean the gun and install the Apex spring kit for the last 500 rounds. That way I will be able to give it a more thorough review.

As for the announcement:

I owe a lot to this forum and its members. I owe even more to TLG. Knowing that, you probably guessed that the holster and mag carrier being orange is not a coincidence. Assuming this gun turns out okay and doesn't crap the bed, once I am done testing it I plan to put it up for auction. That's the SD9 with four mags, JM Custom Kydex AIWB clip on holster and mag carrier. Whatever the package sells for will go to Todd's charity. (http://rampageforthecure.org)

I can't say enough good things about this.

[Rcmid]

Thanks for taking the time to perform and write this review. And much appreciation for your charity.

[45dotACP]

And this thread was awesome before...

Kudos to you Sean!

[Skaaphaas]

I somehow missed this thread. I carry an SD9, it has a few thousand rounds through it which stopped when I started competing with a G17. I still trust it with my life and when I do training courses I use the SD9. It's seen some abuse. It has broken a striker, so I can't say it's been "flawless" (how I hate seeing that word on gun forums), but it's been mended and now works again.

With you on the gun being a tad slick, it does tend to move if shot with sweaty hands, but I find the trigger guard to be the same dimensions as the M&P.

Thanks for the review, the SD9 has never been as popular due to the Sigma legacy, so I'll be sure to refer a couple of people to this thread.

[Sean O]

Do you recall what the approximate round count of your pistol was when the striker broke?

[Skaaphaas]

Do you recall what the approximate round count of your pistol was when the striker broke?

Hmm. Around 5K? But it was dry fired many many times before that, which I am sure contributed to the problem. When I bought the gun I was still a candidate attorney (intern, I believe you call it?), so my pay was about $400 a month, in a country where I paid the equivalent of $600 for the gun. Thus I dry fired like a demon, so dry fire count could be closer to 15K.

Oh, S&W HQ told me that it cannot be replaced with a Sigma striker. They're wrong, because that's all I could find and it is he exact same thing.

I blame your litigious society for them trying to cover their asses :-)

[Sean O]

Another hour at the range, another 369 rounds down the pipe. 344 of the Freedom Munitions 115gr reman and 25 more rounds of 124gr Remington Golden Saber.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3909/15252349912_76daff8342_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/peNhfd)
Total round count: 1,065
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

I once again noticed the slickness of the pistol as my hands got sweaty at the local indoor range. I just can not maintain the grip I use on my Glock on the SD9 because my support hand will start sliding up the trigger guard.

Glock grip with a G19 and the SD9:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5576/15066034370_78ab103870_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oXkn8h)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5583/15229726206_649ce832ef_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pcNk1j)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5578/15065965469_2a71bd0dcb_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oXk1Dk)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3901/15252348692_e0a63d979b_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/peNgTb)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5580/15252348102_161b12d1f1_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/peNgH1)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3876/15066035590_032e5abb6c_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oXknuj)

SD9 specific grip:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3911/15066034710_58f3270e9b_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oXkne9)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5596/15249632481_24294a9e9a_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/peymrX)

As you can see I have to tuck my left hand down further under the trigger guard, which feels unnatural. It just feels like I am gripping the pistol too low. The timer does not lie though, and with the new grip I can still match my average times on FAST and Bill drills although it does take a little extra concentration.

I have made the decision to put on some grip tape when I install the Apex parts (after 2,000 rounds), and am actually looking for advice.
I have found two main options for the grip tape: Traction Grips (http://www.tractiongrips.com/catalog/i26.html) or Decal Grip (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2370486663/decal-grip-tape-smith-and-wesson-sd-9-40)

Anyone have any experience with these? Thanks in advance!

[Sean O]

Almost forgot to mention that my SD9 LOVES P-F.com!
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5567/15066440298_56afa6a810_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oXnrN3)

[TORCH2J]

That's quite nice.

I've a question for you. Have you done any accuracy testing at longer distances? I was an early adopter of the M&P 9, buying an early Pro which I promptly sold shortly thereafter due to abysmal accuracy. Since then, I've followed with great interest the various sagas on the "net" regarding the 9mm's accuracy and lack of such.

I'm really curious about whether that "issue" plagues the SD9.

I've used Decal Grip before, and it was ok, but since discovering the power of the $10 wood burner from Harbor Freight, I've become an unabashed fan.

[Chuck Haggard]

Stop stealing my ideas for testing.



Nice job BTW

[Sean O]

That's quite nice.

I've a question for you. Have you done any accuracy testing at longer distances? I was an early adopter of the M&P 9, buying an early Pro which I promptly sold shortly thereafter due to abysmal accuracy. Since then, I've followed with great interest the various sagas on the "net" regarding the 9mm's accuracy and lack of such.

I'm really curious about whether that "issue" plagues the SD9.

I've used Decal Grip before, and it was ok, but since discovering the power of the $10 wood burner from Harbor Freight, I've become an unabashed fan.

I plan on doing some accuracy testing, although as I said before take it with a grain of salt since 25 yard bull is not my strong point. I am working on that...

I will also test the accuracy after the Apex parts are installed to see how much the trigger helps me when it comes to the pistol's potential in my hands.

I will be actioning off the SD9 with 4 mags and holster/mag pouch seen below for a certain charity (http://rampageforthecure.org), so any permanent modifications like stippling are out of the question. Please keep the comments, suggestions and questions coming, it is helping me become a better shooter.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3919/15220835745_318d74aa3d_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pc1Lbv)

[Sean O]

Stop stealing my ideas for testing.

Nice job BTW

Thank you, that means a lot to me. I hope your planning on testing the Ruger 9E, because that would save me some money. Although I am enjoying the testing process....

[Sean O]

300 more rounds through the SD9 and another hour of practice without incident.

Total round count: 1,365
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

Today's practice was concentrated on manipulation and accuracy. Some thoughts and some breakdown:

Once again, the gun proves capable. It is me that is having trouble staying consistent. I tried the command fire (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13324-Are-we-approaching-group-shooting-the-right-way&p=249410#post249410) drill that Mr. Dobbs posted for 10 rounds each at 3 and 7 yards. Here are the results:

2" circle 3 yards: 9/10 hits, .225 second average
2" circle 7 yards: 7/10 hits, .266 second average

Moving onto manipulating the SD9 at speed. I found the slide serrations a little too aggressive for my liking. The slide would be somewhat painful to my fingers when I really ripped at it during malfunction drills. Luckily, the gun has run well to this point and I haven't had to really deal with this. I use the slide release for reloads, so the serrations do not affect me there either. About those reloads...

I find myself struggling with the concealed reloads and I attribute this to two things: lack of dry practice (biggest problem) and the magazines themselves. I shot 1-R-1 (I was too low on ammo to do 1-R-2) 10 times using a 6" circle at 7 yards and here is the breakdown:

Best: 1.91
Worst: 2.61
Average: 2.177
Average - best and worst: 2.156

With my G19 I was averaging 1.8-1.9 for concealed reloads, so performance has suffered a little. I run a V3 JM mag pouch (http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/SPMP3.html) with my Glock and ordered the same pouch for the SD9. I am convinced this is the only reason my times are not that much different (consistency is good). I am so used to the Glock mags and how they feel, that the longer floor plate of the SD9 mags make it sit awkwardly in my hand. If the SD9 mag is different enough from the Glock where it feels bad, then the Sigma mags are pure evil.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/15017891110_e5b27e83a9_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT5BP5)

They are longer, they have sharp edges and they do not belong in a mag pouch for reloads. That said, they function perfectly in the gun.

[ReverendMeat]

Sorry, what do you mean when you say "concealed reloads"?

Very interested in this test btw, great job

[Sean O]

Sorry, what do you mean when you say "concealed reloads"?

Very interested in this test btw, great job

I apologize, I should have phrased it better than I did. I meant reloads from concealment (under an untucked polo, mag pouch at 9 o'clock). Concealed reloads sounds like some slight-of-hand magic.

[MichaelD]

Sean O, thanks for doing this. Your 2000-round test appears to be adding to the evidence I've seen that says the SD9 should be the go-to pistol for those on tight budgets and/or cheapskates.

[JV_]

the SD9 should be the go-to pistol for those on tight budgets and/or cheapskates.The SigPro 2022 is also a viable option.

[Sean O]

Another hour and 300 rounds, bringing the count to:

Total round count: 1,665
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

There is nothing too exciting to report today. The gun continues to perform just fine. I did two dot torture drills, both at 3 yards and 48/50. On the first attempt I threw two shots on the SHO portion of the drill. After running the rest of the drill clean, I told myself to just concentrate more and scoring a 50/50 would be easy. On attempt number two, I got cocky and stopped concentrating (again, BAD SEAN!) and threw two on the WHO dot. Yet again we have a perfect example of 'it's the indian not the arrow' cliche.

The gun is growing on me more and more, and although I miss my Glock, I wouldn't feel horribly disadvantaged if the SD9 was my only choice of handgun.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I see that Trijicon offers HD sights for it.

https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product2_hdns.php?mid=16

[Sean O]

I will post a Pro/Con list when I'm finished, but one of the pro's is the fact that M&P sights fit the SD9 from my understanding. Also, the MGW sight tool for the M&P will work for the SD9 if you remove a shim. I have the MGW sight tool to try, but doubt I'll install sights. If the winning bidder wants night sights put on when we auction it off I would be happy to install a set though.

[Skaaphaas]

I will post a Pro/Con list when I'm finished, but one of the pro's is the fact that M&P sights fit the SD9 from my understanding. Also, the MGW sight tool for the M&P will work for the SD9 if you remove a shim. I have the MGW sight tool to try, but doubt I'll install sights. If the winning bidder wants night sights put on when we auction it off I would be happy to install a set though.
And it fits M&P holsters. Even dedicated kydex moulded ones.

[Rich]

For some reason I like the looks of the SD over M&P.

And if a LE agency had good luck with the SD I would buy a couple .

OP I`m having good luck using a horizontal mag holder.

I have the horizontal mag holder between 11 and 12:00 hollow points down and facing towards 12:00

For ME it makes for a fast reload.

I wear my shirt untuck of coarse and use the wilderness H mag holder option B and had Tony/JM make me a simple fold over IWB-Light holster for my P30S-TLR-1

[Sean O]

First phase complete. The SD9 has exactly 2,000 rounds through it. Here is the break down:

Total round count: 2,000
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

Ammo used:

Rem Golden Saber 124 gr: 60rd
Federal Value pack 115 gr: 100rd
Rem UMC 115 gr: 50rd
Freedom Munitions 115 gr reman: 1790 rounds

Average round count per hour: 235.29
Average rounds per trip: 285.71

I will post detailed pictures when I break the gun down to clean/inspect it before installing the Apex parts.

As promised, I tried some accuracy 'testing'. I loaded the SD9 with 10 rounds of Remington Golden Saber 124gr and shot a B-6 target at 25yards standing freestyle. Wind gusts were 15-20MPH today, although I was still fairly happy with the results (good for my ability):

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3879/15258716906_e4d6f17bbc_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pfmUVY)
(I figured out how to make pictures larger finally!)

I am curious how it will group once the Apex parts are installed. I am also considering trying to shoot off a rest to see what kind of results I can squeeze out of it.

All done for now, I will post a pro/con list this weekend. In the meantime, notice the STAGGERING similarities between Todd's M&P (http://pistol-training.com/archives/740) at the end of testing and this SD9:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3872/15281858915_40f4753d34_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/phpwf8)
If it wasn't for the two toned slide, you would be hard pressed to tell the two tests apart.

[JHC]

Hey that's a big fat datapoint. That pistol is not junk! Not too shabby.

Not too shabby offhand 25yds either. Sandbagging just a little? ;)

[Suvorov]

AWESOME!!!

Oh how I envy your ability to hit the range and fire as much as you do.........

Thanks for doing this though.

[Lon]

I've often thought the SD9 was an under appreciated deal. Thanks for doing this. I feel better recommending this as a possible option for some of my students who have a slender budget. Now, if they made a SD9c, that would be interesting.

[Tamara]

Now I'm curious to see the benched groups with the Apex parts.

[ReverendMeat]

Good stuff man, also curious to see how much of a difference the new parts make. And more cheap gun tests in the future, the ~$350 price range doesn't get a whole lot of attention

[Sean O]

What the gun looks like after the 2k mark:

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/15103305898_3b73eec610_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p1CoDQ)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/15289888275_023613d980_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pi7F6n)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3863/15286735421_0b7d1b0dce_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/phQvRP)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5569/15103161020_d061db30de_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p1BDzW)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3881/15103303348_428d18c2fa_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p1CnTS)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/15103128469_049fc4b4b4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p1BtUH)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5583/15103309348_590f2a6c7d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p1CpFj)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3925/15103127279_2a691a5595_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p1Btyc)

[Sean O]

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3846/15289891365_abc222a269_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pi7G1D)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3860/15266843286_bfe2b3651d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pg5yBY)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/15289885375_12661b4a18_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pi7Een)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/15289890625_042f63fa93_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pi7FMT)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/15103118579_97a6cf7a57_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p1BqYc)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3858/15289883015_4d5555160c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pi7DwF)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/15103157340_56eee4c2fa_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p1BCuu)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/15103157340_56eee4c2fa_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p1BCuu)

[Sean O]

The Sigma mags and the SD9 mags are identical with the exception of the base plate:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3906/15289477592_dda5dda1dd_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pi5z1C)

The soon-to-be-actioned set all together (minus Apex parts which will be installed next week):

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/15289881475_ec4660ee3d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pi7D58)

[Rich]

I hear the SD 9mm is being sold over seas / middle east?
I'm glad the pistol did well. Thank you for your time and effort. BTW good shooting . .

[Sean O]

Update:

The SD9 received a cleaning today and I didn't see any problems. Hopefully the trigger pull gauge will be here tomorrow so I can give pull weights before and after the Apex parts are installed. I will post pictures of the install, along with detailed pics of the extractor. If there is anything someone wants to see let me know.

Striker:

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2942/15326621585_f5f39687cc_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pmmWCi)

[TORCH2J]

Thanks for the report. Considering what the dealer price is on these, the SD series seems like a best buy recommendation for those on a budget.

[Sean O]

I was able to get the Apex parts installed today. I will do a more detailed write up with pictures tomorrow. Here is a snap shot:

Stock SD9 trigger pull (avg 10 pulls): 7lb 13oz
Apex modified SD9 pull (avg 10 pulls): 5lb 7oz

The Apex spring kit was extremely easy to install. The trigger itself on the other hand took 2.5 hours of fitting, but I think it was worth it in the end. The pull actually has a extremely nice roll to it and there is no wall before the trigger breaks. Really looking forward to trying this combo out for accuracy. More details to follow.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3860/15343869131_ea614169c3_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pnTkHM)

[JHC]

Wow that's quite the reduction in pull weight!

[rsa-otc]

Apex modified SD9 pull (avg 10 pulls): 5lb 7oz

The pull actually has a extremely nice roll to it and there is no wall before the trigger breaks.

Now you have my attention. As a long time wheelgun shooter my finger is severely habituated to a roll and no wall. I have not figured out how to accomplish this with the M&P.

2000 rounds is probably as much or more than the average owner that this gun is targeted/marketed for is going to put through it. I wonder how one of these guns would do in a true TLG torture test.

[Sean O]

Extractor holds in the striker safety
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3843/15354043552_78e5138db2_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/poMudQ)

Extractor
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2947/15354042762_66bac20e2a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/poMtZd)

Striker safety: S&W spring on the left, Apex spring on the right (sorry for the blurry pic)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3890/15354363775_7786bde738_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/poP8pV)

Striker spring. S&W on the left, Apex on the right
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3868/15354042212_2869bc9a17_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/poMtPJ)

Sear block
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2946/15354041692_ac0e83ae51_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/poMtEL)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3867/15354041092_eb5495be4a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/poMtuq)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3853/15351172841_ed1d3313c5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/powLRP)

[Sean O]

Trigger spring. S&W on the left, Apex on the right. The Apex replacement has a felt insert like the OEM spring.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3854/15167837217_4399d744e5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/p7k8yM)

The new trigger.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2943/15354359225_5be4062054_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/poP74t)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2943/15331330066_6a1483db99_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pmM5i1)

[Sean O]

As I sated above, the trigger is drastically improved. While a Glock trigger has light take up and then the "glass rod" break, this trigger reminds me of a short (although somewhat spongy) DAO. The break was about a pound lighter than a stock gen 3 19, and the weight stacks smoothly through the press. The reset isn't nearly as positive as a Glock or newer M&P, but still positive enough to not bother me. I will need more time with this setup, but my guess is I will actually prefer this trigger to my Glock's.

I think the Apex spring kit makes an interesting shift in opinion (for me) toward this gun. $300 for a (so far) reliable pistol plus a $20 spring kit makes for a fairly decent package. While I was already fairly impressed with the gun (for the price), the extra concentration to shoot it well compared to my G19 was a little bothersome. With this kit I do not think I will need that extra effort. Only time and rounds will tell.

As far as accuracy goes, I will shoot both another 10 round group at 25yds (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13363-S-amp-W-SD9VE-2-000-round-test-thread&p=254097&viewfull=1#post254097) offhand, and at least three 5 round groups off a bag. After reading okie john's excellent post (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12244-Freestyle-shooting-at-25-yds-revisited/page31&p=255810#post255810), I will put a few hundred rounds through it before I do this to try to help the gun settle back down since it was completely stripped.

So far this is how I see the pistol:

PRO
Price
Backed by S&W’s great CS
Uses M&P sights
Size is close to G19 (works well for concealed carry and HD)
Capacity of 16 rounds
Many M&P holsters will fit
‘Stippling’ in front of the take down lever is great trigger finger index reference point for new shooters

CON
Long term durability is unknown
Serrations are a little sharp
Trigger is heavy and spongy
Plastic sights (Durability)
Slick frame, especially when your hands are wet.

NEUTRAL
Magazines do not seat easily on a closed slide with the full 16 rounds, might choose to download one round
Plastic sights (Like Glocks, they will work until you order the sights you want and keep cost down)
Apex parts available for a better trigger

I will add to this very subjective list as things come to me. Hopefully by the end of the weekend I will have another 500 rounds through the gun, as well as some accuracy testing done. Then it is off to auction!!! (You know you want it....)

[DocGKR]

Thank you. Look forward to hearing more!

[JDM]

This is an absolutely fantastic thread.

Thank you very much for this awesome content.

[Al T.]

Appreciate the work, thanks! :)

[Sheep Have Wool]

Great work.

[okie john]

I will be actioning off the SD9 with 4 mags and holster/mag pouch seen below for a certain charity (http://rampageforthecure.org), so any permanent modifications like stippling are out of the question.

People who know what that charity is would probably prefer stippling.


Okie John

[okie john]

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3879/15258716906_e4d6f17bbc_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pfmUVY)

Nice shooting.

I think we’re actually looking at two groups here: one consisting of the shots that hit the X and above, and a second consisting of the little knot of hits at six o’clock. The first is a product of your normal grip, stance, etc. The second is a product of you pushing your entire hand forward/down just as the shot breaks.

At least that’s how it is for me.


Okie John

[Sean O]

Thanks for all of the positive responses guys, it really means a lot.


People who know what that charity is would probably prefer stippling.
Okie John

While I agree with this, there is still the matter of how it is stippled. I would rather just leave it up to the winning bidder.


Nice shooting.

I think we’re actually looking at two groups here: one consisting of the shots that hit the X and above, and a second consisting of the little knot of hits at six o’clock. The first is a product of your normal grip, stance, etc. The second is a product of you pushing your entire hand forward/down just as the shot breaks.

At least that’s how it is for me.

Okie John

This is amazing feedback, much appreciated. Hopefully shooting off a bag in the future accuracy test will help avoid this type of separate grouping. This gives me quite a bit to think about for next session, thanks again.

[JM Campbell]

Cheap grip tape for a week won't kill the gun. Test it out, see if it helps.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Sean O]

I actually have a package of the "Talon grips". Honestly I picked the first thing that popped up on Amazon when I was ordering the Lyman trigger pull gauge.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3929/15341059816_0b9bc231b4.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pnCWBj)
I figured I would do it this way for a few reasons:

1- I think it would be an accurate representation of what most people interested in a budget gun would look to do if they didn't like the grip of said gun.
2- It isn't anything permanent, so whoever ends up with this pistol can do what they would like.
3- I'm lazy and this was quick.

I also already see two problems with this package for me personally:

1- The grip wraps all of the way around, including the back. I personally would leave the back part slick so my hand could slide into position easier.
2- There is not a piece for under the trigger guard, which is seriously needed with the way I grip the gun.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5580/15252348102_161b12d1f1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/peNgH1)

My current debate is this: Do I use the stick on grips 'as is'? Or should I cut the back and make a piece for under the trigger guard like I would if it was my gun?

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions.

[JHC]

Hard to say. Individual prefs vary. I really only want super high traction on the front strap and the back strap and even with RTF2, I don't find the traction to hamper a good high grip from the draw.

[Sean O]

I was able to get to the range today and put another 225 rounds through the SD9 with the new trigger. The Apex parts actually threw me off a little at the beginning of the session getting used to such a different trigger pull. On the very last round of the day, the trigger didn't release the striker without a slight shake of the pistol (the gun cycled) all because of this:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3909/15383981491_6e1e28d640.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/prqVJc)

I blame this on two things:

1- The pistol got VERY dirty (damn cold hands and numb fingers!). It may or may not have been rinsed off in muddy water.
2- The Apex trigger (not the spring kit) required fitting. After 2.5 hours of fitting (I did not want to take off too much material) the gun would pass a function test so I stopped messing with it. I believe I got the trigger down to where it *just* worked. I don't believe I left any room for dirt or grit.

I detail stripped and cleaned the pistol and mags again because of the dirt exposure. The gun is cleaner than ever now, and the factory trigger is back in place. Honestly, I just did not feel like taking the time fitting the Apex trigger even further (today at least). On the bright side, I now get to compare the difference between the factory trigger/factory trigger + spring kit/ full Apex kit. While I now need to put rounds down range with the factory trigger + spring kit setup, from dry fire I would describe each trigger as such:

Factory- Heavy and spongy, but workable. Think of a spongy DAO trigger. Pull weight: 7lb 13oz

Factory+spring kit- Lighter, but still spongy. Trigger pull is same length, reset is not as strong as factory. Pull weight :5lb 13oz

Apex trigger + spring kit- Shorter than factory and slightly less spongy. Actually pretty nice, would just like a stronger reset. Pull weight: 5lb 7oz

I really don't know if the pull weight difference between the last two setups is the way I measured it (because of the 'trigger safety' differences and what it takes to deactivate them) or it is actually almost a half pound different. That all being said it does not feel heavier (to my super duper calibrated finger), even though it is definitely longer. Originally I was not even going to try the Apex trigger and planned to roll with just the spring kit strictly because of cost. Then a fellow member graciously donated the trigger (HUGE shout out to SkyLine1!). I am so appreciative of this, because it showed me how nice this trigger can be if you take the time to fit it right.

It was raining fairly heavily today, and my hands kept getting numb during practice. Even though it was great training it prevented me from doing any serious 25 yard grouping like I planned. I did shoot one 10 round 25 yard group fairly quickly (~10 sec) and scored a 92-1x. If I was to take out the two called fliers, it would have been 95. Still, for a $300 gun in crappy conditions and a shooter who isn't great at distance shooting, I was pretty happy with it.

Another benefit of the weather was that it gave me a good chance to try out the Talon Grips as well. I installed them as they came in the package (I even followed directions!) and honestly I was not impressed during dry fire. During the practice session in the rain, however, they proved to help quite a bit. Even in heavy rain the gun was not as slick as I experienced at the indoor range when my hands where slightly sweaty. Still, stippling would be much better (insert my shocked face), as would skateboard tape in my personal opinion.

I wil get some rounds through the gun tomorrow, and if anything special happens I will give an update. Unfortunately, if I do an accuracy test it will have to be in two weeks due to scheduling conflicts. I may very well just put the gun up for auction tomorrow to get the money to the charity ASAP, and just hope whoever wins will test the accuracy of the pistol.

[Sean O]

Another 175 rounds no problems. I have decided to wait until I return for the auction, that way I can also perform the accuracy testing.

Total round count: 2400
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 1 (Aftermarket trigger problem, not the original parts)
Breakages: 0

[CrappieMan]

Another 175 rounds no problems. I have decided to wait until I return for the auction, that way I can also perform the accuracy testing.

Total round count: 2400
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 1 (Aftermarket trigger problem, not the original parts)
Breakages: 0

Many thanks for the thorough testing and review! This thread is THE reason why I registered on this forum as I own an sd9ve and have been trying to get used to the trigger. Always looking for others who have more experience with the pistol.

I noticed in another post you mentioned something about mag placement for carry. I carry my spare vertical at 9 o/clock with primers to my rear. I actually use an old cellphone pouch that fits perfectly! Wish i could still find them. Right handed shooter missing fingers on left hand, so reloads when firing from weak hand are difficult to say the least! But for strong hand (right) shooting, this placement seems to work best for me.

One more thing which confused me. You say the sd9ve mag has sharper edges and also say "the longer floor plate of the SD9 mags" which confuses me. At least from the photos, the sd9ve floor plate (if I am referring to what you mean) is shorter and much more rounded off than the Glock. Again, I may not be understanding your terminology. Did you mean wider or was it a dyslexic slip?

I do own an sd9ve and am still getting used to the trigger. I hope you will do a longer term test with the Apex spring kit for reliability before you auction the pistol, as I have some concerns about misfires if I decide to do the mod.

700+ rounds and about 700 dry firings so far. The trigger has "smoothed" to a degree and seems lighter (no way to measure that other than my finger), but is still clunky/spongy. No failures. Wish it would eject a little more positively to the right.

Thanks again!



300 more rounds through the SD9 and another hour of practice without incident.

Total round count: 1,365
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0

Today's practice was concentrated on manipulation and accuracy. Some thoughts and some breakdown:

Once again, the gun proves capable. It is me that is having trouble staying consistent. I tried the command fire (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13324-Are-we-approaching-group-shooting-the-right-way&p=249410#post249410) drill that Mr. Dobbs posted for 10 rounds each at 3 and 7 yards. Here are the results:

2" circle 3 yards: 9/10 hits, .225 second average
2" circle 7 yards: 7/10 hits, .266 second average

Moving onto manipulating the SD9 at speed. I found the slide serrations a little too aggressive for my liking. The slide would be somewhat painful to my fingers when I really ripped at it during malfunction drills. Luckily, the gun has run well to this point and I haven't had to really deal with this. I use the slide release for reloads, so the serrations do not affect me there either. About those reloads...

I find myself struggling with the concealed reloads and I attribute this to two things: lack of dry practice (biggest problem) and the magazines themselves. I shot 1-R-1 (I was too low on ammo to do 1-R-2) 10 times using a 6" circle at 7 yards and here is the breakdown:

Best: 1.91
Worst: 2.61
Average: 2.177
Average - best and worst: 2.156

With my G19 I was averaging 1.8-1.9 for concealed reloads, so performance has suffered a little. I run a V3 JM mag pouch (http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/SPMP3.html) with my Glock and ordered the same pouch for the SD9. I am convinced this is the only reason my times are not that much different (consistency is good). I am so used to the Glock mags and how they feel, that the longer floor plate of the SD9 mags make it sit awkwardly in my hand. If the SD9 mag is different enough from the Glock where it feels bad, then the Sigma mags are pure evil.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/15017891110_e5b27e83a9_s.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT5BP5)

They are longer, they have sharp edges and they do not belong in a mag pouch for reloads. That said, they function perfectly in the gun.

[CrappieMan]

Is this thread THIS dead? To answer my own question... YES.


Many thanks for the thorough testing and review! This thread is THE reason why I registered on this forum as I own an sd9ve and have been trying to get used to the trigger. Always looking for others who have more experience with the pistol.

I noticed in another post you mentioned something about mag placement for carry. I carry my spare vertical at 9 o/clock with primers to my rear. I actually use an old cellphone pouch that fits perfectly! Wish i could still find them. Right handed shooter missing fingers on left hand, so reloads when firing from weak hand are difficult to say the least! But for strong hand (right) shooting, this placement seems to work best for me.

One more thing which confused me. You say the sd9ve mag has sharper edges and also say "the longer floor plate of the SD9 mags" which confuses me. At least from the photos, the sd9ve floor plate (if I am referring to what you mean) is shorter and much more rounded off than the Glock. Again, I may not be understanding your terminology. Did you mean wider or was it a dyslexic slip?

I do own an sd9ve and am still getting used to the trigger. I hope you will do a longer term test with the Apex spring kit for reliability before you auction the pistol, as I have some concerns about misfires if I decide to do the mod.

700+ rounds and about 700 dry firings so far. The trigger has "smoothed" to a degree and seems lighter (no way to measure that other than my finger), but is still clunky/spongy. No failures. Wish it would eject a little more positively to the right.

Thanks again!

[Sean O]

Another 50 rounds through the gun, no problems.

Total round count: 2450
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 1 (Aftermarket trigger problem, not the original parts)
Breakages: 0

Tomorrow will be the pistol's final accuracy testing and I'm debating on shooting two 5 round groups or one 10 round group. I would greatly appreciate any input on this dilemma. I like the idea of 5 rounds for concentration reasons, but have always shot 10 round groups before. Unfortunately I only have 10 rounds of the Golden Saber left, which means one 10 round group or two 5 round groups. That is of course unless I do horrible, than I may just have to use some of my Gold Dots....

I have decided to try shooting from a bench for this test for two reasons:

1- I have never shot off a bench for accuracy and am curious.
2- I'm curious to see what the pistol's true accuracy potential is by taking myself out of the equation as much as possible.

I will get back after accuracy, clean the pistol and take some detailed photos. Then to auction!!!!!

[DocGKR]

What is the difference between one 10 rd group or two 5 rd groups shot slow fire on the same target?

It is slow fire--set the pistol down between each shot, read a book, come back and make another shot, go get a snack, return and fire another shot, etc... There should be NO concentration issues associated with SLOW FIRE.

[Sean O]

Thanks Doc, I appreciate the advice. I am obviously overthinking it and will just shoot when I feel I'm ready.

[Sean O]

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3946/15616764801_a405462f63.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pN116x)

Wind today was 10-15 MPH blowing right to left. 10 rounds shot from a bench at 25 yards. Overall (considering my skill level and the weather conditions) I am happy with how this sub $300 pistol did accuracy wise. Ammunition was the same Remington Golden Saber 124gr used earlier in the test.

I learned a lot about my own shooting with this test, and enjoyed the budget pistol. It proved reliable, and while it was not easy to shoot well compared to a Glock or M&P, it performed above my expectations.

Early next week I will post detailed pictures of the pistol after I clean it. Once I have spoken with the moderators on how to proceed, we will get the bidding started. Hopefully by the end of the month rampageforthecure.org will be a few hundred dollars richer..

Total round count: 2460
Stoppages: 1
Malfunctions: 1 (Aftermarket trigger problem, not the original parts)
Breakages: 0

[Sean O]

All clean and ready for auction!
Honestly after cleaning the SD9 there was not really any abnormal wear or anything that made cringe.Some pics:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3937/15026327553_c31d6a7170.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oTPREZ)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3942/15460508407_e89f23fc0e.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pyc9vM)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3937/15460906830_61af8d1d93.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pyebX9)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5601/15460347338_495c3d7c61.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pybjCJ)

[Sean O]

The final break down for this test:

Range trips: 11
Total time: 11.2 hours
Rounds per hour: 219.64
Round count: 2460
Stoppages:1
Breakages: 0
Malfunctions:1

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3953/15460907300_acd646604e_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pyec6f)

Final thoughts:

After 11 hours of live fire and 3-4 hours of dry fire with this pistol, I can honestly say the SD9 grew on me. It is kind of like having a beater car where the ride isn't very nice but you have confidence it will work when you need it to. Would I ever recommend it over Glock or something similar? Of course not if one’s budget is not a limiting factor. The price (for new) really is this pistol’s strongest point. A quick price check for the SD9 online at three large internet retailers (without waiting for any sales) revealed:

$311
$304
$305

Not bad for a serviceable pistol with two 16 round mags.

The stock trigger is far from ideal, but workable. The addition of the Apex spring kit ($20) turns it into something fairly decent. If you have faith in your ability with a file or know a good gunsmith, the Apex trigger ($40) along with the spring kit give the pistol’s trigger a very good feel. The only major problem I had with the pistol was that I was too impatient to ensure the Apex trigger was fitted properly, leading to a malfunction.

(shot with a stock trigger, 25yd off hand)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5574/15095172488_e4ecba1b5e.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oZUGSC)

The sights are a standard 3 white dot arrangement and are plastic. They worked just fine and if someone wanted to save up the money and upgrade them M&P sights will fit, leaving you with endless options.

Ergonomically the pistol feels good in the hand, it just needs more texture. If your hands are wet or cold you find yourself constantly adjusting your grip even if you only fired one round. For this test I used a pre-cut set of Talon Grips ($18) like seen below. While this definitely helped, the gun just begs for a stipple job. The slide serrations are a little sharp but do the job well. Having serrations in the front was nice change for this Glock shooter, since that is where I grasp the slide to perform press checks.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3929/15341059816_0b9bc231b4.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pnCWBj)

The magazines are standard S&W, with the round count indicator holes (annoyingly) on either side of the mag. I really recommend obtaining actual SD9 mags to go with the pistol (round base plates), even though if you can not find any and are in a pinch Sigma magazines work just fine.

(SD mag on the left, Sigma on the right)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/15017891110_e5b27e83a9.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oT5BP5)

I wasn’t sure exactly what I expected out of the SD9 going in, but I can say it delivered more than I thought it would. With its G19 size and 16 round capacity, the gun would work well for either carry or home defense. If you know anyone who is looking for a self defense pistol and is on a budget, make sure to give the SD9 a look.

[Sean O]

If there are any requests for pictures other than what I just posted (test breakdown and thoughts on pg 8), let me know before the pistol ships and I will try to accommodate.

There are many people to thank for this test. I have become a better shooter because of this process, and am back to tracking my practice more diligently.

- JM Custom Kydex for donating the awesome mag pouch and holster ($120)

- SkyLine1 for donating the Apex trigger ($40)

- TLG and the PF staff/SME’s/members for inspiring me to continue the journey of becoming a better shooter.

- My wife, for not only understanding but encouraging me in this process (including the donation - yeah, she’s a keeper!)

I will be putting the gun up for auction on gun broker tomorrow. I will also update this thread with a link to the auction. Total value breakdown:

SD9 (2 mags included): $300
Two spare mags : $65
Holster and Mag carrier: $120
Apex spring kit: $20
Talon Grip: $18

Total value (If it was new, of course) :$525

Bidding will start at $200 when I get it posted. Please remember that %100 of the money goes to rampageforthecure.org, so the higher the price goes the more the charity wins. I will cover shipping costs as well, so the final dollar amount is the donation. Stay tuned!

[Sean O]

Bidding started at $200, I will post better pictures and updated photos on GB tomorrow. Please spread the word!!!!

Link to charity SD9 auction (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=450291031)

[Casual Friday]

I've owned a SD9VE since 2012 and it's been a great pistol. I have all the Apex parts in mine and it is a real shooter. I don't have an exact round count, but I want to say 3000 rounds or so. I prefer my Sig Pro so that's what I carry and shoot, but the SD9 has treated me well. It's my wife home defense gun when I'm not here. Thanks for the thread.

[Clay]

Picked one up at Academy today for $289 plus tax. Took it to the range and fired 400 rounds through it, between my wife and I. PPU, Winchester, and Aguila FMJ, as well as Rem Golden Saber 124 gr. +P, Winchester Bonded 147 gr. JHP, and Speer 124 gr. Gold Dot. No malfunctions. The trigger is actually quite good IMHO. Kinda like a DA auto. I have to say I am very impressed. Thanks Sean O. for starting this thread!

[Clay]

I'm now at 810 rounds through my SD9VE, with no malfunctions. It has been cleaned and lubricated twice, using Rem-Oil. The pistol cleans up very easily due to the finish (bare stainless) and the simplicity of the frame. I fired Barnaul, Wolf, Aguila, Winchester NATO, and Federal 9BPLE through it today. Accuracy could be better, but that is my fault - I find the trigger requires much more out of me than a Glock.

Overall, I love the ergonomics more so than a Glock 19, especially the underside of the trigger guard - no Glock knuckle. I also notice that recoil is less noticeable than with a Gen4 Glock 19. I would have thought the opposite to be the case. If I could master that trigger it would be a great carry gun.

[Sean O]

That's awesome Clay, glad it is working well for you! I would highley recommend the Apex spring kit. With that kit installed the trigger takes much less mental (and physical) effort to obtain decent accuracy. If you have a punch set and you have any experience in completely disassembling a Glock, it will take less than a half hour. Here is the video guide. The improvement is definitely worth the money IMHO.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atOw-1FoJV4

[Clay]

Thank you, sir!

[396]

Anyone know about the new Apex Flat faced trigger for the SD series? It was intro'd by Scott Folk at one of the trade shows. An email to Apex only got a reply referring me to the products list for the SD series where it's not mentioned. That is something I pointed out in my inquiry.

I have an SD9VE and was wondering how this compared to the SD Polymer trigger they already have.

Thanks.

[Clay]

I wanted to bump this back up and see if anyone is still running a SD9VE, or is planning to do so. I sold mine, and now I have a APEX spring kit, a K Rounds Kydex IWB holster, and a spare recoil spring that I would like to PIF to a forum member. All the items are NIB. Just PM me if you're interested.

Great pistols, BTW. I fired almost 2000 rounds through mine with no problems.

[Clay]

PIF stuff is gone!

[11B10]

I wanted to bump this back up and see if anyone is still running a SD9VE, or is planning to do so. I sold mine, and now I have a APEX spring kit, a K Rounds Kydex IWB holster, and a spare recoil spring that I would like to PIF to a forum member. All the items are NIB. Just PM me if you're interested.

Great pistols, BTW. I fired almost 2000 rounds through mine with no problems.

I have had a SD40VE for about two years now - very limited round count, I'd guess around 1,000. I have changed nothing on this gun - dead stock. Besides the crazy l-o-n-g trigger pull, this pistol has been perfect during dry fire, live fire - not ONE ftf, fte - nothing! To be fair, I have never shot anything but premium ammo through it - plus, it spends most of its time inside as, except for a few brief periods of edc. It gets regularly disassembled and lubed and is exactly what I thought it would be - a reliable, fairly accurate firearm that gets me through some down times with the "others," and only cost me $275.

[Clay]

I bought back my SD9VE and have been using it as a range rental, for people interested in an inexpensive pistol. Very positive feedback.

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk

[11B10]

I have been told by several PSP motorcyle riding guys that SD's are the firearm they pack most of the time while riding because, if, God forbid they crash and burn and somehow lose, damage or ? - their carry gun, it's not that big of a deal. Makes sense to me.

[Chuck Haggard]

I got one for Christmas, it's going to get lubed and start a 2000 round challenge.

[Kyle Reese]

I got one for Christmas, it's going to get lubed and start a 2000 round challenge.

Nice gift!

[ST911]

I have been told by several PSP motorcyle riding guys that SD's are the firearm they pack most of the time while riding because, if, God forbid they crash and burn and somehow lose, damage or ? - their carry gun, it's not that big of a deal. Makes sense to me.

Loss of a gun is never "not that big of a deal." Replacement of a mainstream gun at $350-$700 is a comparatively small issue in a MC crash.

[LockedBreech]

Bit of a necro here, sorry.

I have a small metal key Gunvault with an anti-cut cable that I no longer use at work. Considering mounting it to one of the anchors in the back of my Subaru Outback (I know, I'm a gun hippie, I hike too) and popping an SD9VE in there. Any reason that's not a great idea? The back of my Subaru has a little privacy shade so nobody would be able to look in and see it, and it would be nice to toss a holster in my roadside kit and have a quick carry setup ready if I ever needed one and wasn't carrying for some reason.

Setting aside the always pervasive "should you ever keep it in a car" argument, which I generally have been on the "no" side of, I feel it might be okay with a well-concealed and well-anchored storage space. A lockbox and cable along with privacy screen, car alarm, and locks (I always lock, and my car auto-locks as well) should secure it enough.

I'm looking for something I can function test, clean, lubricate well with TW-25B, and store, and trust that it will work if I pull it out.

Other candidates include a Sig P250 Compact 9mm for $382 new, a $319 used M&P40, a Kahr CW9 for $300, general budget runners.

[41magfan]

I paid $269 for mine new and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. I put a set of plain black Heinie Ledges on mine but otherwise it's stock. The ergonomics are very good and mine has been totally reliable.

[LockedBreech]

Thank you for sharing. :)

I just remembered I have a Gen 3 Glock 23 that I paid like $330 for that gets no carry time. If that doesn't scream "Oh well, it got a bit rusty" I am not sure what does.

Then again, it's always very fun to get a new toy, and I find I'm shooting 9mm a lot better than I ever did .40

If I ever found it for $269 I don't think I could pass it up.

[LockedBreech]

You should stay away from GunBroker. It's not hard to find them there for less than that. :)

I avoid Gunbroker reallllly hard. I am so, so close to being debt-free and me venturing on to that website is like a crackhead wandering down a dark alley.

Edit: Well I guess you can't say you avoid something when you have the app for it.

[LockedBreech]

So I finally did get one of these.

With a combination of a good deal and a gift card, I ended up with a Sig Sauer P229R in .40 for $350 out of pocket. I was ecstatic, thinking I would get an E2-gripped gun in good condition. Went to pick it up tonight.

For the second time I've tried to buy a used 229 sight-unseen, I got a beat-to-hell one about a decade old. Deciding the universe did not want me to have a 229 in .40, I glanced at my LGS's display, saw the SD9VE on display, asked to trade straight-up, and he accepted.

So technically I'm into this gun for more than it's worth, but I don't really care, I decided I'd rather have a factory new 9mm this than a beat-to-hell .40 S&W that.

I will report at some point as to how my new cheap beater gun performs!

[LockedBreech]

SD9VE $224 (https://gunprime.com/product/smith-wesson-sd9ve-9mm-16rd-4-223900/) after rebate (https://www.smith-wesson.com/rebates).

Boy, I bet you're peeved with me right now.

[LockedBreech]

Not even remotely. Our deal was more about me helping you out than me getting yet another SD9VE. :)

Much appreciated, genuinely. Having a blast with the Glocks.

[TheNewbie]

If it only had a gadget to go with it! :p

[LockedBreech]

If it only had a gadget to go with it! :p

Will be ordering x3 :)

[TheNewbie]

Will be ordering x3 :)

Seriously, a cheap gun that could have something like a gadget on it would sell in the millions!

If the entire gun buying population was made up of PF members. :p

It's a tempting buy. That's a crazy good deal.

[alohadoug]

The SD9VE is amenable to a drop-in SCD very much like the Glock. That might be a reason why I own so many SD9VEs. :)

Of course, as soon as I make a SCD for it, S&W will likely discontinue the gun. Which would be a shame. I think it is absolutely the best gun you can routinely buy for under (sometimes a LOT under) $300.

I don't like you. I had just decided I didn't need one of these...

[11B10]

Somehow I've missed this thread until now. I am the walking, talking - BEST example of what not to do, bar none!

I bought a SDVE40 when my Springfield XDS was recalled. Always liked the gun - not one malfunction ever. Always planned to get a better trigger and sights - never did. In January, I traded it in on my P30SK. I got exactly what I paid for it in the trade, but had this nagging feeling that I should've kept it. Now I see this. On the plus side, I didn't lose money, and, IMHO, I have found MY Grail gun.

[41magfan]

The trigger on the SD9 is just different enough that I don't shoot it as well as I probably could if I would just dedicate some serious time to training with it, but I trust mine enough that I put a light on it and made it my nightstand gun. I too, think it's a real sleeper in that segment of the market.

[41magfan]

http://palmettostatearmory.com/smith-wesson-model-s-w-sd9-ve-9mm-4-barrel-w-two-tone-finish-223900.html?trk_msg=R2BVLAPDPUC4R58O8KDFFOM7MK&trk_contact=P9EEHHSGP15ABQ57VK2HSRO4N4&trk_sid=J8IQHLBL4BQD89NDJGRSFPN9U4&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fpalmettostatearmory.com%2fsm ith-wesson-model-s-w-sd9-ve-9mm-4-barrel-w-two-tone-finish-223900.html&utm_campaign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=11%3a00+Email

[Lon]

Gone.

[dwcopple]

sign up for emails, they'll be back. what a freakin' steal!

[Duelist]

Wow. $199 + $17 shipping.

:eek:

[hufnagel]

damn. that's hi point money right there.
eta: also Tom, you better get cracking on a SCD for the SD9VE, as I'll want one as soon as I get the firearm. :D

[OlongJohnson]

Will update later.

[OlongJohnson]

S&W sent the two parts that the almost-new SD9VE I bought needed (defective, not damaged). No questions asked, one phone call, they showed up in my mailbox. Arrived yesterday, just got them put in now.

The first was the striker. The striker that came in my gun was bent, so the actual firing pin part hit the funnel at the end of the channel in the slide before it emerged from the breech face. This was distinct and consistent. It used up a lot of the striker's energy, not to mention it would eventually have tended to break the end off the pin and likely damage the slide. I'm guessing the reason I was able to buy it so inexpensively with the appearance of maybe a mag or two of ammo through it had something to do with light strikes. The new striker is straight and centers up in the hole perfectly.

The second was the recoil spring assembly, which made itself into a non-assembly while sitting on my bench as I did my initial cleaning and inspection. Tom hasn't had the problem, but my reading on the subject suggests I'm not the first one to experience it. Might be at the lowest round count. New one doesn't look totally pristine, but is intact and seems to be working. I'm going to do some more research and work before a complete report on this one.

Hurricane Harvey has closed the ranges I shoot at, so I've only been able to do a dry fire session. The good news is I like it a lot. It has a "normal" grip and points like non-Glock pistols, so I think it will work much better for me than a G19 would. The trigger pull is very different than a Glock. Due to the rotating sear, it doesn't have the bindy-feeling wall at the end. It just pulls through and releases like a DA hammer pistol. It is actually reminiscent of a USP V1 DA pull. Similar sponginess, although moreso, but less force required. And what non-smoothness there is has a very USP-DA-like feel to it. Not gritty, just not smooth and lubed metal like a good classic Sig or Beretta 92. Either I've gotten used to it or it's burnished and smoothed out a bit in the first dry-fire session already. I think it will get mo' betta. Overall, I'm really looking forward to some live fire.

[frozentundra]

I pulled this out of a thread that got locked for unrelated reasons:


S&W SD9 (and SD40) (https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms#/?series=141), while not known as a "shooter's gun", is excellent. While the striker is partially tensioned, it is essentially a DAO striker in that there is a long pull on every shot and it has a full length reset. Holds 17 (16+1) rounds, is the size of a G19, comes from a major manufacturer, takes M&P sights, has aftermarket support from companies such as Apex (https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Category?categoryId=22), and is routinely available, brand new, for less than $300 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Pistols/BI.aspx?Keywords=SD9&MaxPrice=300&NoReserve=1&Condition=2&Sort=4). The firing mechanism uses a pivoting sear, but instead having ~0.03" engagement with a fully tensioned striker and pivoting down (like a P320), it has 0.06" of engagement of a ~1/3 tensioned striker and pivots rearward. Unlike the P320, it also has a tabbed trigger safety that prevents motion of the trigger (and trigger bar) due to inertial events (drops, knocks, mallets, etc.) which not only prevents the firing bin block from being disengaged, but also blocks movement of the sear.

Again, not a "shooter's gun" but a very affordable and capable HD gun, that is drop safe AF. However, it doesn't look cool on FB/YT/IG. :)

ETA: The stock trigger pull weight on the SD9 is very similar to that of a stock P320, 7-7.5 pounds. The weighted portion of the trigger pull is just 4-5 times longer than that of the P320.


I doubt I'll be able to do for the SD9 what EL did for the PX4, but I'll try. :)



The SD9 is 100% SCD-able with a Glock-style drop-in SCD. I can't comment on future products and availability, but I will say that I own 4 or 5 SD9s. :)


ETA: HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!
19369

That's a current Glock SCD on a SD9. The fit is not perfect, but it locks into place, works, and demonstrates that with only minimal modification a SD9/40 SCD is possible. :)

The above posts finally provided me with sufficient motivation to purchase an SD9VE. I figured I’d use this thread to catalog my experience for future reference.

I'd been eyeing them for a while as a potential Glock 19 replacement. I really like my Gadgetized Glock 19 with the exception of trigger reach. I think the 19 is the ultimate form factor for carry, but when I grip the 19 like I prefer to, my trigger finger placement is sub optimal. I’ve always felt like I’m fighting this a little bit.

The grip geometry of the SD9 makes for a somewhat shorter trigger reach than the 19, which I find to be a significant improvement for my hand size and grip technique. I am able to get more finger on the trigger without compromising my hand position. This is especially noticeable when shooting one handed, which is a big deal to me.

Actually, I feel like all the controls are slightly easier for me to reach and manipulate. When I pick up the 19 after handling the SD9 it feels really thick by comparison. The magazine on the SD9 is REALLY THIN for a double stack. None of my mag holders will retain it, including ones for m&p, or the latest gen Phlster that uses shock cord for universal fitment.

They sharpened up the grip texture a lot since I last held one. The front and back straps are downright prickly now. The grip area immediately below the slide release and above the textured part of the “side panel” is slippery as hell though. I’ll need to stipple or grip tape that area if I want optimize my recoil control.

Picked it up from a local farm and fleet store. They let me try the triggers on three SD9’s that they had in stock, besides the one displayed in the case. One from the back had a smoother trigger than the others. I bought that one. Just a little over $300 out the door, but I’m glad I paid a little more than online and got to cherry pick from a sample. I like the trigger.

The factory sights were pretty well regulated for 115 grain Winchester white box ammo that I shot with them. I was able to make hits on 4” steel at just over 20 yards using a “cut the target in half” sight picture about half the time. My hits(and misses I’m sure) were left of center, but that could easily have been me. Elevation seemed pretty good though.

After taking some measurements, I replaced the factory sights with a Dawson .160 tall x .115 wide red fiber optic front, and their .245 tall x .145 notch Charger fixed rear sight. So far the elevation looks pretty good using 147 Speer Lawman. Perhaps an inch or two high at 25, but I find that with my astigmatism(and maybe lack of marksmanship ability) I need to shoot in a wide variety of lighting conditions and with different pairs of eye pro before I’m confident in where the sights regulate for me. My groups can move around depending on those factors. I hope the rain lets up a little tomorrow so I can try several types of ammo with the new sights.

Regarding the trigger, I think of it as a slight middle ground between a Glock trigger and a double action. It's like the "wall" on a Glock trigger has been moved forward, then extended into a mini DA stroke behind it. One thing I can struggle with on a Glock trigger is an unconscious tendency to prep the trigger to that very distinct wall, then snatch at it, when I should probably be rolling through the entire press. The SD9 doesn't have the same pattern of very light takeup, defined wall, and sudden break that many of the striker actions exhibit. I find it a little more natural to roll through this trigger, more like a traditional DA pull. In my case, I believe the additional length of resistance zone on the trigger is partially offset by the leverage I gain in getting more finger on the trigger. This was immediately evident shooting one handed.

I think the trigger may be just a little more forgiving in the “threat management” area that Darryl talks about, with the longer resistance zone, although I’m certainly out of my lane here. I’d be curious to hear what he or other qualified people thought about this compared to the G19 and LEM, if they had a chance to shoot one.

I’ve only been able to put a little over 200 rounds through the gun, about 100 of which were WWB, 65ish were mixed 124 +p gold dots, 147 HST, federal 124+P, and 50 rounds of 147 Lawman. I don’t have my ammo log at the moment but that’s a reasonably close approximation. No malfunctions, except for failure to lock back on empty, but that’s 100% me. I do that to Glocks just as often. I just live with it. It locks back every time when shooting 1 handed or when I grip the gun lower with my support hand, like most people would.

I hope to do quite a bit more shooting with this gun in the near future and will try to update this thread with round count, function report, and my subjective opinions, for whatever that’s worth. As of now, I think it’s a great option for people who have small hands and trouble with trigger reach on a G19, or maybe the best bet for the first time gun buyer who is too cheap(or poor) to purchase a 19.

I'm definitely getting a SDGadgetVE when Tom releases them :cool:

[41magfan]

I noticed there are some new flavor options available .... dark slides, colored frames and Hi-Viz sights.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/H3XYw1.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poH3XYw1j)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/BCvBIT.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmBCvBITj)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/UDPm4d.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnUDPm4dj)

[frozentundra]

Managed to get to the range today. Fired another 195 rounds of 147 Lawman. No malfunctions, except for the expected failure to lock back on empty, which I do to Glocks as well. I would be shocked if it didn't happen. I'm not going to count those against the pistol because that would be stupid.

My ammo log notebook for this pistol seems not to have made the trip back from Paul-E-Palooza. Unless I find it, I'm going to stick with the estimated numbers I posted above. I know it has fired slightly more rounds than that, but I'm not sure on the exact number.

So tentative round count is 100WWB, 65 mixed defensive hollowpoints, now 245 rounds 147 lawman. Total of 410 rounds, no malfunctions.

Here is the first 5 round group I fired today from 25 Meters on an 8" plate with the Dawson sight, shooting 147 Lawman. Point of aim was the bottom edge of the center white dot. Shot leaning on the trunk of my car for support. I didn't measure the group, but it was good enough for me. The spray paint cap measures 2.60" for reference, and it could cover the group from center to center. The best 4 are pretty damn tight, and the closest 3 are right on top of each other.
19405

Then I fired an additional 5 rounds for a group of 10. I marked the maximum dispersion center to center on a 3x5 card and measured it later. Turned out to be right at 3.75" or so. I'm not the best marksman in the world, and have trouble keeping my focus/patience while shooting groups with a pistol. I'm sure the gun is capable of better than I can do.
19403

I will shoot for groups again with different types of ammo at a later date. I don't think I have the patience to do marathon session of that type without compromising the results, and it was threatening to rain.

Ejection with the 147 Lawman is quite consistent at about 4:30 on the clock, it doesn't throw them into the next county like a CZ P-07 I used to have, but it chucks them pretty good. Noticeably more distance than my G19 with 147 Lawman, not that it probably matters. Just for shits and giggle I fired it 5 times with no magazine inserted, and the rounds ejected just as forcefully, but to about 5:30 position, in an ark that would easily clear over my head if went straight to the 6 o'clock.

I attempted to "limp wrist" the gun, firing 10 rounds with as week a 1 handed grip as I could expect to retain the pistol with. The rounds ejected forcefully and into a neat pile at about 4:30 again. I was surprised.

The Dawson Fiber optic sights are pretty nice, but after today I really appreciate the Ameriglo T-CAP sights on my glock even more. This is my first set of fiber optic pistol sights. For some reason I can more easily focus on the front sight with the T-CAP. The red fiber optic on the Dawson really pops, but I have to try hard to focus on the top edge of the sight with my eyes. My focal shift seems to suffer a bit. The Yellow T-CAPs do tend to wash out somewhat at blazing high noon, but I can see them great in almost all other lighting conditions, especially when it's dim enough that I can just barely begin to make out the glow of a tritium vile, the "Lumi-lime" square is still quite visible to me, and I could still see a target in reasonable detail. The Dawson FO front is nearly invisible to me in those conditions.

I'll have to play with the FO's a lot more to see if I can learn to use them to advantage. It was quite overcast today. I'll bet they do great inside of 10 yards with a soft target focus at speed. Intermediate range press outs seemed promising.

Overall I'm impressed with the gun so far. 8" plates at 25 meters offhand are a breeze. The trigger isn't that stinking hard to run. Not much that it could be doing better with me at the helm. If it proves durable and reliable, I don't see how you could go wrong for sub $300 with a lifetime warranty and M&P sight selection. Palmetto State Armory has mags for $20.

Edit to add: I'm using a very old JM custom appendix holster for an M&P, carried at the 3 o'clock position for range use. Happened to be in my holster pile. It doesn't fit well enough that I would chance to use it for actually carry use, and certainly not in the appendix position. I'll need a new holster.

[frozentundra]

Fired another 50 rounds of Winchester white box. 460 rounds, 0 malfunctions.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Managed to get to the range today. Fired another 195 rounds of 147 Lawman. No malfunctions, except for the expected failure to lock back on empty, which I do to Glocks as well. I would be shocked if it didn't happen. I'm not going to count those against the pistol because that would be stupid.

My ammo log notebook for this pistol seems not to have made the trip back from Paul-E-Palooza. Unless I find it, I'm going to stick with the estimated numbers I posted above. I know it has fired slightly more rounds than that, but I'm not sure on the exact number.

So tentative round count is 100WWB, 65 mixed defensive hollowpoints, now 245 rounds 147 lawman. Total of 410 rounds, no malfunctions.

Here is the first 5 round group I fired today from 25 Meters on an 8" plate with the Dawson sight, shooting 147 Lawman. Point of aim was the bottom edge of the center white dot. Shot leaning on the trunk of my car for support. I didn't measure the group, but it was good enough for me. The spray paint cap measures 2.60" for reference, and it could cover the group from center to center. The best 4 are pretty damn tight, and the closest 3 are right on top of each other.
19405

Then I fired an additional 5 rounds for a group of 10. I marked the maximum dispersion center to center on a 3x5 card and measured it later. Turned out to be right at 3.75" or so. I'm not the best marksman in the world, and have trouble keeping my focus/patience while shooting groups with a pistol. I'm sure the gun is capable of better than I can do.
19403

I will shoot for groups again with different types of ammo at a later date. I don't think I have the patience to do marathon session of that type without compromising the results, and it was threatening to rain.

Ejection with the 147 Lawman is quite consistent at about 4:30 on the clock, it doesn't throw them into the next county like a CZ P-07 I used to have, but it chucks them pretty good. Noticeably more distance than my G19 with 147 Lawman, not that it probably matters. Just for shits and giggle I fired it 5 times with no magazine inserted, and the rounds ejected just as forcefully, but to about 5:30 position, in an ark that would easily clear over my head if went straight to the 6 o'clock.

I attempted to "limp wrist" the gun, firing 10 rounds with as week a 1 handed grip as I could expect to retain the pistol with. The rounds ejected forcefully and into a neat pile at about 4:30 again. I was surprised.

The Dawson Fiber optic sights are pretty nice, but after today I really appreciate the Ameriglo T-CAP sights on my glock even more. This is my first set of fiber optic pistol sights. For some reason I can more easily focus on the front sight with the T-CAP. The red fiber optic on the Dawson really pops, but I have to try hard to focus on the top edge of the sight with my eyes. My focal shift seems to suffer a bit. The Yellow T-CAPs do tend to wash out somewhat at blazing high noon, but I can see them great in almost all other lighting conditions, especially when it's dim enough that I can just barely begin to make out the glow of a tritium vile, the "Lumi-lime" square is still quite visible to me, and I could still see a target in reasonable detail. The Dawson FO front is nearly invisible to me in those conditions.

I'll have to play with the FO's a lot more to see if I can learn to use them to advantage. It was quite overcast today. I'll bet they do great inside of 10 yards with a soft target focus at speed. Intermediate range press outs seemed promising.

Overall I'm impressed with the gun so far. 8" plates at 25 meters offhand are a breeze. The trigger isn't that stinking hard to run. Not much that it could be doing better with me at the helm. If it proves durable and reliable, I don't see how you could go wrong for sub $300 with a lifetime warranty and M&P sight selection. Palmetto State Armory has mags for $20.

Edit to add: I'm using a very old JM custom appendix holster for an M&P, carried at the 3 o'clock position for range use. Happened to be in my holster pile. It doesn't fit well enough that I would chance to use it for actually carry use, and certainly not in the appendix position. I'll need a new holster.

There was a notebook on the picnic table on the range I was using. I didn't touch it and left it there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[okie john]

I fiddled with one of these at the range this weekend. I put 3 rounds just shy of touching at 10 yards. Not earth-shattering, but good to see.

Does anyone know if the 10-round mags they sell with some of them work better than Glock 10-round mags?


Okie John

[Clobbersaurus]

I fiddled with one of these at the range this weekend. I put 3 rounds just shy of touching at 10 yards. Not earth-shattering, but good to see.

Does anyone know if the 10-round mags they sell with some of them work better than Glock 10-round mags?


Okie John

I have one coming with three 10 round mags. I'll be running it through the 2000 challenge and will post the results in this thread.

[okie john]

I have one coming with three 10 round mags. I'll be running it through the 2000 challenge and will post the results in this thread.

Most excellent. Thank you.


Okie John

[frozentundra]

Fired a whopping 5 rounds of WWB 115 today. Draws to a 4" steel plate at 9 or 10 yards. "Something is better than nothing" is my current training philosophy.

465 rounds, 0 malfunctions.

I noticed that I have to fight a tendency to pop the front sight up out of the notch with the Dawsons. When I start trying to aim quickly, my brain wants to line the fiber rod up with the top of the rear sight for some reason. Light was dim, so the top edge of the front sight was kind of hard to see. The Green/yellow T-CAP on my Glock was much easier to for me to pick up quickly, although I didn't fire it.

Ordered a set of rubberized Talon style grips today from a small ebay seller. They appear to be cut to fit higher up on the frame than Talon grips, very near to the slide lock lever, which is the main place I want extra traction. Figured I'd try grip tape before stippling.

Does anybody know where to order a sheet or roll of rubberized grip tape that's similar in quality to Talon grips? I'd like to try a few things.

[dwcopple]

google GT5000 grip tape

[Clobbersaurus]

I received my SD9VE today.

I basically purchased this pistol for three reasons:

1) Tom Jones' excellent post in the trigger thread a few days ago:


S&W SD9 (and SD40), while not known as a "shooter's gun", is excellent. While the striker is partially tensioned, it is essentially a DAO striker in that there is a long pull on every shot and it has a full length reset. Holds 17 (16+1) rounds, is the size of a G19, comes from a major manufacturer, takes M&P sights, has aftermarket support from companies such as Apex, and is routinely available, brand new, for less than $300. The firing mechanism uses a pivoting sear, but instead having ~0.03" engagement with a fully tensioned striker and pivoting down (like a P320), it has 0.06" of engagement of a ~1/3 tensioned striker and pivots rearward. Unlike the P320, it also has a tabbed trigger safety that prevents motion of the trigger (and trigger bar) due to inertial events (drops, knocks, mallets, etc.) which not only prevents the firing bin block from being disengaged, but also blocks movement of the sear.

Again, not a "shooter's gun" but a very affordable and capable HD gun, that is drop safe AF. However, it doesn't look cool on FB/YT/IG.

ETA: The stock trigger pull weight on the SD9 is very similar to that of a stock P320, 7-7.5 pounds. The weighted portion of the trigger pull is just 4-5 times longer than that of the P320.

Other influential posts from Dagga Boy and Ernest Langdon have led me to believe that DAO and DA/SA triggers have real advantages and I wanted to see how the SD9 VE's "DAO-ish"striker trigger stacked up to my beloved Beretta 92D.

2) I wanted a new gun to give me a needed diversion from my competition gun. This new gun will keep me interested in shooting and keep me motivated.

3) It was dirt cheap!

I'll post some pics and random thoughts for now, but range testing will have to start in a few weeks, once competition season is over.

The gun is attractive and appears well made. The satin finished slide is very nice. The front sight is steel and measures .137. The rear sight is plastic of some sort. Honestly, I don't really know how to feel about that. I guess I would prefer steel, but out of curiosity regarding the durability of the rear sight, I racked the slide half a dozen times off the rear sight on my work bench. Then off my shoe, belt and holster. It worked fine and didn't ding up the sight any. It didn't move, so I guess I'm ok with it.

http://i.imgur.com/sGEvpNV.jpg

The mags seem well constructed.
http://i.imgur.com/kFyRJu2.jpg

They are crimped to only allow 10 rounds and are quite a bit shorter than B92 mags.
http://i.imgur.com/CSvG0PA.jpg

They fit like a glove in the JMCK IWB mag holder I had made for my 92. Bonus!
http://i.imgur.com/Zxwtk9D.jpg

The frame is less shiney than others I have seen. It has the best texturing of any plastic frame pistol I have handled. The front and rear back straps are sharply textured and the side panels are grippy. Of course they end the texture below the mag release, which is frustrating. I don't understand why gun manufacturers refuse to texture the frame up where it is needed; higher up on the grip panels!

http://i.imgur.com/XEI7mi2.jpg

The SD9 is quite small compared to the 92 D Centurion. The pics don't do it justice, but it is slim, compact, and light in comparison. The grip length is quite short, but the base plate on the mag sticks out a little farther than I am used to. I will be repurposing an old holster for it.
http://i.imgur.com/g1nH0Op.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7pdHfKN.jpg

One added bonus is the mag well. It is nicely beveled and I really can't wate to practice reloads with it. It is actually larger than the beveled mag well on my Elite II. It measures .984 from bevel to bevel, where the Elite II measures .908. An added bonus!
http://i.imgur.com/Fvr8ELf.jpg

Elite II mag well on the right...
http://i.imgur.com/iVSLsTa.jpg

The trigger pull out of the box was approximately 8.5lbs on my trigger gauge. In comparison, my 92D is just under 8lbs. I really don't mind the feel of it, but it is a little bit crunchy. Looking at the trigger bar and it's engagement surface, it looks like it could use a bit of polishing to clean it up some.

I measured th SD9 trigger length vs the 92D by measuring the distance from the face of the trigger to the leading edge of the frame.

The 92D measured .920
http://i.imgur.com/wzSIGb6.jpg

The SD9 measured .649 (about 70% of the Beretta)
http://i.imgur.com/ofD0t8t.jpg

Both triggers broke near the end of the total travel. Note the "speed bump" type nubbins on the trigger and frame of the SD9.
http://i.imgur.com/2PAWKOG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Lug3Xxq.jpg

Reset of the SD9 is .524.
http://i.imgur.com/FhoP3NO.jpg

Rest on the 92D is much longer at .903.
http://i.imgur.com/GYkO4PN.jpg

So the SD9 VE trigger has quite a bit shorter length of travel than the true DAO trigger on the 92D. But, it is still rather long and reasonably heavy. I'm not sure what that means, if anything, but it's not a super short trigger stroke by any means. Reset is pretty long on the SD9 VE and it will be interesting to see what kind of splits I can get with this thing. One huge benefit of the SD9 trigger is that is doesn't go totally dead when you pull the trigger in dry fire. It doesn't reset without working the slide, but it springs out to full length, allowing you to work the trigger in dry fire. The pull without the reset is about 5lbs on my gauge so it is actually kinda useful, especially in dry practice. I'm pretty happy about that actually.

That's it for now. I'll post more discoveries as I make them.

[dwcopple]

Not sure what is up with yours, but I have never seen an SD9 with a barrel that protrudes that far out of the slide before. What's the deal? Here is my old one I had
http://i.imgur.com/g1erRa0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iCRqGW1.jpg

[BigT]

Canada has a minimum barrel length requirement.

[Clobbersaurus]

Canada has a minimum barrel length requirement.

Yep, sorry, I should have noted that in my post.

Thankfully, S&W was supportive of the Canadian market and made a special run of barrels for us while still keeping the price low. Not every manufacturer is willing to do that.

[dwcopple]

I figured you were in Kommie-fornia. Didn't think about Canada, eh? No doot aboot it.

Don't forget, the M&P steel rear sight is a direct swap in. And they can be found under/around $10 shipped

[hufnagel]

that looks like it's just about the right amount of extra to get threaded for a suppressor... :D

[Clobbersaurus]

I knew I should not have opened the box.;)

I couldn't resist doing some dry practice with the gun after 20 minutes of dry practice with my Elite II.

The SD9 points a little high on the presentation to the target. It's not as bad as a Glock but it is noticeable.

The grip is small for sure. I have no chance of getting any contact at the rear of the grip with my support hand, my fingers are just too long (this is why, for all those gun designers who may be reading this derpesque post, you need to put texturing on the grip above the mag release!!!). That is the only part of the grip, besides under the trigger guard, that I can get any contact with my support hand.

I did some reloads with my competition gear. The generous mag well made sub one second reloads rather easy for a compact pistol. I got very close to .8 a couple times. The mag well is very generously sized for the small mags. The mag release spring feels weak and mushy. I didn't have any problems with it but it was noticable for it's lack of tension. There is also no tension on the mag whatsoever when it is in the gun and the mag does not spring out under tension as it does with my Elite II. This took a few reloads to get used to as I had a few instances where I beat the mag coming out of the gun and had to double clutch before I could get the fresh mag inserted.

All in all, it was a pretty favourable session.

[frozentundra]

I should make it clear that I'm not doing 2000 round challenge. I just thought this would be a good place to record my experience with this gun. I very seldom "clean" a gun, but I do quickly wipe off excess gunk and relube my pistols at what I feel are reasonable intervals. This pistol got a 2 minute treatment with a paper towel and some slip 2000 EWL at 465 rounds.

Fired another 150 rds 147 Lawman and 145 rds 115 Winchester white box since last update. Total round count is 760, no malfunctions.

I got a set of stick on grips from Ebay seller "BooDad's Grips". They were less expensive than the Talon grips and looked to rise higher on the side panel of the frame. The seller did a good job and they arrived quickly.

I wound up taking after them with my pocket knife anyway, not because they didn't seem to fit good, but because I really like the texturing on the front strap and didn't want to cover it up. I also cut out the left panel's notch by the mag release to facilitate getting them as high/forward as possible.
19619
You can see how aggressive the SD's front and backstraps come now. I like that. The side panels above the height of the mag release were just way too slick. Totally agree with Clobbersaurs above.
19620
19621
19622
Although the grip tape seemed like a good product as delivered, I would probably just buy a blank sheet of the stuff if I were doing it again, since I decided to chop them up anyway. It really added a lot of functionality for $10 and change though. Gun grips WAY better on the support hand side now.

I shot a group at 25 meters with 115 grain Winchester white box. Point of aim was the bottom edge of the center dot. The first 5 rounds measured 3.25" center to center, with the best 4 at just a hair over 2".
19623

Then I fired 5 more for a group of 10, which wound up being more of a "pattern" with 6" dispersion because I'm a shitty marksman. Oh well, you can't win them all. :o I wish I was better at this, because I get the feeling that the gun has pretty good mechanical accuracy with multiple loads, I just can't take full advantage of it. At least the sights that I installed regulate pretty well for elevation. I think the 147's tend to hit just a touch higher on average, but it's well inside any practical shooting ability that I possess.
19624

I got the gun really hot today.
I spent most of my rounds practicing techniques that I picked up from Larry Lindenman's "Crash and Clinch" and William April's "Reactive Shooting" classes from Paul-E-Palooza. These classes focused on shooting from appropriate extension/compression/retention at close(ish) range with movement, and shooting at a relatively high rate of speed with flash sight pictures, respectively. It was hot and sunny, and I fired a lot of rounds in a pretty short amount of time. Gun was quite uncomfortable to handle at one point. It ran fine, but I did wind up getting 2 pieces of brass to the head during some dynamic movement drills. I've never shot at that speed, from those positions, while moving that fast, on multiple targets before. Really good learning experience. Those classes were AWESOME to take back to back in the same weekend!

I wondered if I was going to struggle with short stroking the trigger reset today, but it wasn't a problem for me. Apparently I'd done a good job of programming myself to flip all the way off the trigger at reset. The SD9's trigger needs to come pretty much all the way forward to reset, unlike a Glock. I have long been trying to cultivate a full forward trigger reset under recoil, but I seldom remember to consciously think about it, so I was worried I'd have trouble here. Muy Bueno.

I need to remember to shoot groups at 25 during the beginning of a session. I think if I shoot too much before hand, my ability to shoot slowfire groups suffers.

Edit to add: I've got the Reholstering Blues, now that I'm using a striker gun without a Gadget. I try to always reholster really slowly, and with what I can only describe as a "reverence", but I'm spoiled now after having a Gadget for peace of mind. I shoot in remote places, by myself, with very long travel times to definitive medical care.

So Tom needs to make a SdGadgetVe before I shoot my dumb self and die.

[Clobbersaurus]

More random musings:

The internals of this thing seem nicely machined. Those of you that own Glocks will notice the similarities. You have to pull the trigger to disassemble it (comes apart exactly like a Glock).
http://i.imgur.com/Tx6Ko2A.jpg

They barrel and RSA are nice too. They use a flat wire spring in the RSA so it's longevity should be very good. Guide rod is plastic.
http://i.imgur.com/kyz0Ln8.jpg

The locking block seems small. The frail rails are small as well. I have no clue what the green and red bands are for.
http://i.imgur.com/4ZQflgH.jpg

The trigger bar and whatever the trigger bar rubs on (technical term) looked to be stamped metal of some sort. Note the grainy texture on the edges, I think that is what is causing the gritty feel in the trigger.

http://i.imgur.com/ekaViVn.jpg

The mag release spring is a leaf style, which maybe explains why it feels so mushy.
http://i.imgur.com/1VT4aA2.jpg

The rear sight, though it is plastic, seems well done and fits with no gaps.
http://i.imgur.com/wbcJXRF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lnRMDZM.jpg

I used an old IWB Beretta Elite II holster as a project to make an AIWB holster for the SD9.
http://i.imgur.com/d8ZL1x5.jpg

The key is proper preparation! ;)
http://i.imgur.com/okeBvcX.jpg

A few minutes moving a heat gun around it opened up the holster nicely. Then I bubba pressed it...the cooler was needed for stabalization(patent pending). :)
http://i.imgur.com/Gj47Axe.jpg

I need to do some clean up around the trigger guard and mess with the belt attachment a hit but it seems to work good and retention is fine. Yes it is ugly and crude, but it was cheap, which just felt right for this project.
http://i.imgur.com/CQ3u4bb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/v9IMJrz.jpg

[dwcopple]

I have no clue what the green and red bands are for.



the spring for the slide lock

[OlongJohnson]

I assumed the variously-colored springs are to facilitate identification for more efficient assembly and QC.

[Clobbersaurus]

I fixed the sights to my liking tonight. The SD9 comes with three dots sights for shootin' thangs more gooder....
http://i.imgur.com/Arrfr2Y.jpg

Thanksfully, it's an easy two minute fix.
http://i.imgur.com/pJmaM4w.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sbXtyOy.jpg

I actually find this particular paint brighter than fiber in every lighting condition other than bright sunlight.
http://i.imgur.com/x9TmZaV.jpg

[Clobbersaurus]

Tonight I ground down some of the overhang on the holster around the trigger guard and tapered the muzzle end a bit. I gave it a rough Dremel polish to the edges and called it done. I'm pretty happy with the holster overall actually. I spent about 15 minutes dry firing with the bubba holster and the excellent JMCK mag pouch and I was able to get down to 1 second draws quite easily.

The trigger on the SD9 is really something. As a dedicated dry fire guy, I really appreciate the fact that it doesn't go completely dead once you make the initial press. I think it's going to be quite shootable as is. I won't do any work to it until I get to the range, which won't likely be for a couple weeks.

The sights are actually quite usable and provide a nice clean sight picture with lots of light around the front sight.

The grip is quite small, but the texturing more than made up for any lack of circumference. I may put some grip tape on the upper portions of the grip above the trigger guard, just to give me as much friction on the available grip surfaces as possible.

[Clobbersaurus]

Damn, this thing is just a joy to practice reloads with. The combination of the large magazine well and stubby little mags work so well together. I was able to flirt with 1.2 sec reload par times with a JMCK AIWB mag pouch under a pollo shirt.

The trigger has also smoothed out a bit and is gauging under 8lbs now.

[OlongJohnson]

...under a pollo shirt.

You mean one of these (https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server300/86394/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/10615/91421/10-3987-t-shirt-model-front__68265.1496533763.jpg)?

[Clobbersaurus]

You mean one of these (https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server300/86394/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/10615/91421/10-3987-t-shirt-model-front__68265.1496533763.jpg)?

Hahahahaha!

Damn I am terrible at spelling and grammar mistakes in my posts. I blame my iPad.:o

[frozentundra]

Fired additional 195 rounds(150 rounds 147 Lawman and 45 rounds Federal HST 147 +P)

Total round count is 955. No stoppages or malfunctions.


Shot a group at 25 yards with Federal HST 147 +P.
The light was extremely glaring, low in sky, coming from about 10ish o'clock. I was also wearing polarized Oakleys instead of my prescription lenses. This combined with my astigmatism tends to move my POI around on target.

First 5 round group, 4 of which were pretty tight. Point of aim was center of plate.
19808

Then I fired and additional 5 rounds for a group of 10. 8 of the rounds were pretty close.
19809


Shot one of the best focus groups of my life. Slow fire, 5 shots both hands, 5 shots right hand, 5 shots left hand, 5 yards, aiming at three little stickers. It's the one handed shooting that really improved for me over my normal performance with G19.

[Clobbersaurus]

Got the SD9 out to the range this morning.

253 rounds. 200 rounds remanufactured 124g, and 53 rounds AE 124.
Stoppages: 9 ( all failures of the slide to lock back due to improper grip).
Malfunctions: 0

I wanted to run some standard drills through the SD9 today. I ran FAST's, "The Test", and a Bill Drill. I did numerous 25 yard B8's and some 2 inch dots, and had a mini popper to ring as well.

Here is a video of the FAST's and "The Test" runs. The first FAST was the first four rounds I have ever shot out of the gun and was run cold. The "Test" was run from the holster under a polo shirt and I only ran two of them.


https://youtu.be/8nuUa4PdaCw



Pic of the first 25 yard B8 I shot...:(. The gun shoots six inches high and 6 - 8 inches to the left. I used a drive the dot hold. I'm a low 90's B8 shooter with my competition guns.
http://i.imgur.com/uJzXrJW.jpg

After a bunch of frustration at 25 yards I reluctantly benched the gun. This was the result of holding the edge of the front sight at the bottom of the B8. Not good.
http://i.imgur.com/dTYqEsX.jpg

I think there are a few things going on at 25 yards. First, the front sight is NOT a target sight. It covers all of the black of the B8. Second, the sights are not regulated well, which tends to make group shooting (for me anyway) virtually impossible. Third, there's that trigger.

At ten yards and in the gun performed well. Once I got used to trigger and the recoil characteristics of the gun it was quite fun to shoot. The remanufactured ammo I had was brutally snappy, so much so that I was getting tired of shooting the gun. The last 53 rounds of the AE 124g (my preferred ammo) made the gun a joy to shoot. I did some berm shooting to see how low I could get my splits. I got down to .19, with most split times between .21 and .23. So it definitely not the fastest trigger on the planet.

Things I liked:
1) The gun tracked well under recoil. Sights returned fast and the gun didn't bounce or wobble much under recoil.
2) I quite liked the sight picture, even though the sights aren't well regulated.
3) The trigger was decent for what the gun is. I didn't feel like I had to really work had to get the gun to perform at 10 yards and in and I didn't mind the trigger at 25 yards.
4) The grip texture really is superb.
5) That mag well.

Things I disliked:
1) The slide felt crunchy and gritty when loading the gun. Seriously, racking the slide with a full mag felt like running the slide back and forth over a gravel road. I don't know why it feels that way....but it does, even though the gun is thoroughly lubed. I don't notice any gritty sensation when firing the gun, but loading it is seriously cringeworthy.

2) The sight regulation. Obviously this is a problem. I will drift the front sight, as I don't want to mess with the polymer rear sight, and try to get it at least centered. I doubt I will buy a different height front sight at least in the short term.

3) The slide lock is very easy to depress when shooting the gun at speed. I had to concentrate on my grip to make sure I didn't depress it. A training issue for sure, but frustrating nonetheless. You can see in my third FAST where I had the run the slide after the 2X5 shots, obviously adding unnecessary time. I'll work on it.

[dwcopple]

1) The slide felt crunchy and gritty when loading the gun. Seriously, racking the slide with a full mag felt like running the slide back and forth over a gravel road. I don't know why it feels that way....but it does, even though the gun is thoroughly lubed. I don't notice any gritty sensation when firing the gun, but loading it is seriously cringeworthy.

.Inspect the pickup rail on the underside of the slide with a magnifying glass. You might need to sand and polish it

[frozentundra]

Fired 50 rounds of 147 Lawman today. The gun broke the 1000 round mark. Count is 1005. No malfunctions or stoppages that aren't failure to lock back on empty, which I do to Glocks all the time as well. It's because I try to grip the gun like Bob Vogel(yeah right ;) ). I'm not running an actual 2000 round challenge anyway, just recording my experience with the SD9.


I think shooting the SD9 is helping me to break down certain fundamental problems with my trigger technique. Kind of the opposite of buying a pistol with a very short, light trigger to help mask errors in fundamentals. The longer pull, with less defined wall, is less enticing to stage. This encourages me to make smoother, continuous trigger pulls, even at speed on distant targets. There is no reset to catch, or wall to stop on. Slightly slower, smoother, with more continuity and power. I was able to shoot some very fast(for me) controlled pairs on 8" plates at 25 yards playing with this approach, which pleasantly surprised me. I hope it wasn't a complete fluke.

Likewise, the different grip geometry is encouraging me to be very mindful of the subtleties of my grip mechanics. Neither the ergonomics or trigger characteristics are a giant departure from a G19, but it's just different enough that I'm not operating on autopilot and notice different things.

I was amused to see S&W finally release the M&P 2.0 compact(G19 size) as soon as I purchased the SD9 for a G19 alternative. Perhaps in the long run, learning to shoot the SD9 well will make me a better shooter, so maybe I'm lucky it happened this way. I laughed pretty hard when I saw that thread though.

[Clobbersaurus]

I think I have figured out why it is shooting left. The front sight is quite noticeably right of center in the dovetail.

http://i.imgur.com/gmShrla.jpg

[frozentundra]

I think I have figured out why it is shooting left. The front sight is quite noticeably right of center in the dovetail.

Yeah, that'll do it. I hope you have a sight tool that fits. I had to beat the hell out of my factory front sight to remove it. It was really in there.

One of the things that surprised me the most about my SD9 was how well regulated the sights were from the factory. I almost wish I would have stuck with them, done up the front sight like you did, and opened the rear notch with a file. I had always been curious about fibers though.

Just FYI, the plastic rear sight has a steel insert. Mine tapped out pretty smoothly, but had enough resistance to inspire some confidence. I'm not sure how often I'd want to practice running the slide one handed off of them though.

19867

19868

[dwcopple]

Yeah ^ replace that with the M&P OEM steel rear sight

[frozentundra]

Optics Planet has Ameriglo M&P steel rears in a variety of notch widths and styles. They range in price from $24 to $35.

[Clobbersaurus]

Yeah, that'll do it. I hope you have a sight tool that fits. I had to beat the hell out of my factory front sight to remove it. It was really in there.

I have a decent sight pusher, I should be good to go thanks. That is interesting info about the rear having a steel insert. I haven't seen anything quite like that before.

[frozentundra]

Fired 180 rounds of Speer Lawman 147 grain cleanfire.

Wiped down the pistol quickly today, picked some crud off the feed ramp with my thumbnail over a paper towel, re-lubed with slip 2000 ewl.

Total is 1185 rounds. No stoppages or malfunctions, other than me causing the slide not to lock back on empty with my grip.

At this point I would trust this particular gun for carry if I had a couple more trouble free boxes of 147 HST through it. The very consistent ejection pattern helps to inspire my confidence in the gun, although I'm in no particular hurry to replace the Gen4 G19 on my belt.

[Clobbersaurus]

I was finally able to get out to the range today, I haven’t shot in over a moth.:(


226 rounds mixed AE and remanufactured 124g.

Total rounds: 489.
Stoppages: I stopped counting ( all failure of the slide to lock back due to my grip)
Malfunctions: 0

The gun chugged along nicely today.

3 FASTest’s were:
5.63+2H = 7.63
6.48+2H = 8.48 (slide did not lock back costing me on the reload).
6.39 Clean (slide did not lock back).

The sights were better regulated as I was able to get the front sight centered with my sight pusher. I ran two Advanced super tests and did well. The first one I was over time on the 5 yard, 5 second par. It was the first time I have run the Advanced Super Test, so I was not used to the tight five yard par time!

This was the last run; it went pretty well.

https://youtu.be/APeYwlWIVts

I was able to get a 2.67 clean on a Bill drill and some .18/.17 splits on some berm drills. I half heartedly shot a 25 yard B8 but gave up when I saw all my rounds low on the paper due to me trying to overcompensate for the poorly regulated sights. I need to get this sorted out when I have more time, but at 15 Yards and in the gun shot pretty well.

Although I am frustrated with my FAST’s this little gun seems very shootable in stock form. I was able to pass the Advanced Super Test on my second try, and I know I can do better, particularly if I use more of my available time at 15 and 10 yards.

http://i.imgur.com/0a934ee.jpg

More to come!

[OlongJohnson]

Stupid good deal on magazines here for a couple days:

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/122327

[Clobbersaurus]

Edit to add: I copied the post below in part from my training journal.


12/17

I was finally able to get to the range and put 300 rounds (150 - 124g AE and 150 - 124g Centaure remanufactured - holy crap was it snappy!!) through the SD9. I used AIWB gear under a knit shirt.

Total rounds: 789
Stoppages: I stopped counting (all failure of the slide to lock back due to my grip)
Malfunctions: 1 - DF

FASTest’s:

1) Cold 5.34 Clean - I was quite happy with that considering my lack of range time lately.
2) 6.22 +1B = 7.22 - I caught the edge of the mag in my shirt which cost me at least a second then I blazed the body shots to catch up, and let one go high.
3) 5.81 +2H = 7.81 - I should have shot the three FAST’s back to back when my hands were still warm.

I had one malfunction with the gun today. It was a double feed while shooting weak hand only. I marked the mag and then proceeded to shoot another 120 or so rounds SHO and WHO and could not get the gun to repeat the malfunction. It occurred while shooting some very snappy 124g remanufactured ammo. Racking the slide to load the gun with this ammo was noticeably more clunky, and that rough feeling I mentioned in previous posts was more pronounced. The cases on this ammo looked like they were nickel plated, so maybe the SD9 just does not like this type of ammo. I had no problems with brass case.

http://i.imgur.com/F497mH2.jpg

I was able to squeak out a 271 on the Advanced Super Test, but 15 Yards was bad! Really bad! I also could not get the gun to group on 25 yard B8’s which was really frustrating. Below was the best 25 yard target I could get from the four I fired. Admittedly, it was not great weather to be shooting groups and the gun is still shooting low (I tried various amining points to compensate) but I remain unimpressed with 25 Yards accuracy with the SD9. I moved on to movement drills just to try to get warm for the rest of the session.


http://i.imgur.com/tFkbpOw.jpg

[41magfan]

$219 and shipped free .....

http://www.combatarmory.com/smith-wesson-sd9ve-9mm-2-16rd-mags-free-shipping/

[TheNewbie]

$219 and shipped free .....

http://www.combatarmory.com/smith-wesson-sd9ve-9mm-2-16rd-mags-free-shipping/

Wow that's a good deal. Especially if a gadget comes out for it. :D

[TheNewbie]

There will be a gadget for the SD pistols.

I think there was divine intervention in me not getting a Model 64 the other day.

How does the install compare to the Glock install of the gadget difficulty wise?

[Casual Friday]

There will be a gadget for the SD pistols.

In terms of beta testers for the SD SCD, I may not be the hero PF is looking for, but I'm the hero it needs. :D

[LockedBreech]

If there is going to be a Gadget for the SD, might be a good reason to get back into one. Ironic since the whole reason I got out of one was a very good trade deal from Tom. Since then my Stougar Cougar 8000F renewed my fascination with cheap-but-good guns. Considering getting an SD and a Ruger 9E as well.

Do we know if anyone has done an endurance test on the 9E like the SD has had done? Is the 9E Gadgetable?

[Clobbersaurus]

The SD series, with the Gadget and a set of steel tritium sights would be a very hard to beat package for the budget minded self defence oriented shooter.

Heck, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that even non budget minded shooters, who want a trigger system that is NOT light enough to go bang if you give it a dirty look, should give this combo some thought.

[TheNewbie]

Now Safariland needs to make an ALS holster for the gun.

[LockedBreech]

Sean O also did a test of the Ruger 9E:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17473-Ruger-9E-2-000-round-test-thread



I’ve never looked at one.

ETA: it sounds like it doesn’t need a gadget:

Well that cooled me somewhat on the prospect, I didn't realize the 9E still had the magazine disconnect safety. No bueno.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheNewbie]

Ok I read through this thread half asleep so I hope I didn't miss the obvious.


What M&P holsters will these fit? I read somewhere about some Glock holsters fitting?

What's the difference between an SD 9 and an SD 9VE?

[Casual Friday]

Ok I read through this thread half asleep so I hope I didn't miss the obvious.


What M&P holsters will these fit? I read somewhere about some Glock holsters fitting?

What's the difference between an SD 9 and an SD 9VE?

Every leather holster for the M&P that I tried fit mine, and most kydex/plastic/whatevermolded material fit. I don't recall trying any Glock holsters.

The VE means Value Enhanced, meaning the slide isn't colored and the rear sight is plastic.

[TheNewbie]

Every leather holster for the M&P that I tried fit mine, and most kydex/plastic/whatevermolded material fit. I don't recall trying any Glock holsters.

The VE means Value Enhanced, meaning the slide isn't colored and the rear sight is plastic.

Thank you!

So the SD9 and VE have the same style trigger? Good to know.

I have a an M&P Safariland ALS holster but now I need a SD9 to try with it.

[OlongJohnson]

M&P steel rear sight is about $16 and goes right on, if the plastic bugs you.

[TheNewbie]

Will these fit M&P holsters? I have an ALS holster for an M&P 9 sans M&P 9.

[OlongJohnson]

I've had one mechanical failure that would almost certainly have tied up the gun (it was disassembled for cleaning when the recoil spring assembly spontaneously disassembled itself) and definitely required parts to fix, and...

...needed parts were supplied without issue by S&W and there's a permanent preventive solution for the RSA...

Okay, I've posted about this a few times. Here's the deal. Search on S&W fora and you'll find other reports of the RSA coming apart, so I'm not the only one, although I may be the only one here.

The recoil spring guide rod is configured the opposite of a Glock. As seen in the pic below, the "snap on" part is the flange that bears against the frame. You can see it is bent a bit due to the torque of the edge being captured by the barrel locking lug. I had the assembly out and sitting on the bench when this part went flying. I never found it. Although spring force bears between the flange and the front of the slide, it's conceivable that something like that might occur during use, and the rod would likely be ejected out the front of the slide within a few cycles, if things didn't get jammed up first.

22732

Some people change to an all steel guide rod, but those who do that and then actually shoot the gun a lot often encounter unrepairable damage to the pistol's frame. Others have figured out that a Glock 19 guide rod fits. I tried that. The Glock 19 spring is heavier than the SD9VE spring, however, so to keep things closer to how they were engineered, I popped the spring retaining button off the front of the G19 guide rod and swapped springs. The button didn't go back on as tight as it was the first time, but if it ejected in use, there would be no functional problem that I could determine. The G19 guide rod without the button still overlaps into the hole in the slide, so it couldn't hang up the slide, and furthermore, both the S&W and G19 rods are actually located at the front by the ID of the spring, not by the buttons interacting with the hole in the slide. So the guide rod would go on guiding with no button.

22733

Unfortunately, the G19 guide rod is just slightly longer than the SD9VE guide rod, and sticks out a hair farther. The button is almost completely outside the front of the slide when in battery. Probably wouldn't be a problem, but it looks questionable.

22734

My solution was to use a G17 guide rod. I trimmed it flush with the end of the slide with the slide off the frame. When the slide is installed, the rod is pushed forward slightly, and protrudes an amount that looks right. I put a chamfer on the edge by turning it while dragging it across some 320 grit. The SD9VE guide rod is also flush when off the frame, and protrudes to the end of its bevel when assembled.

22735

I thought I would want to plug the hole in the tip with a piece of black plastic or silicone or something, but it doesn't actually bug me. Visually, it just echoes the muzzle and looks fine. Since the whole project is about reducing parts count to eliminate the opportunity for something to come apart, leaving it alone seems like a better idea. The only down side of this that I can find is S&W will probably stop sending me free replacement guide rods when they break, and installing the non-captured spring and guide rod is now a bit of a fiddly PITA. Some might struggle to accomplish it due to hand strength issues.

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[OlongJohnson]

You are correct.

It appeared to have had less than a box of ammo through it when I got it, based on wear and dirtiness. My hypothesis is that it got flipped due to light strikes from the tip of the bent striker hitting the inside of the slide before exiting the breech face. Realizing that was occurring is what led me to take apart the striker assembly and find the striker bent. I didn't ever take it to the range with the bent striker, though, so that's just a guess.

[41magfan]

On sale again for $219.99 and shipped free .....

http://www.combatarmory.com/smith-wesson-sd9ve-9mm-2-16rd-mags-free-shipping/

[Doc_Glock]

Question for Tom_Jones: Does the SD9 have a "supported sear" that would prevent inertial dropping of the lightly tensioned striker?

[OlongJohnson]

In a little more detail, the component that draws the striker rearward and then releases it is pivoted on a shaft at a fixed location in the frame. It releases the striker by the tip of it following an arc downward as it moves back, so the striker can't be released until that component has been drawn fully rearward. That takes a substantial amount of work.

[GJM]

More importantly (to me anyway), it satisfies all my criteria and has all the features I look for in a striker fired pistol. :)

Does it come in brown?

[OlongJohnson]

It's a $220 gun. Of course it comes in brown.

24311

[Doc_Glock]

In a little more detail, the component that draws the striker rearward and then releases it is pivoted on a shaft at a fixed location in the frame. It releases the striker by the tip of it following an arc downward as it moves back, so the striker can't be released until that component has been drawn fully rearward. That takes a substantial amount of work.

I took one apart today. Very nice design. Almost nothing to go wrong. I liked it and will recommend them going forward.

[NerdAlert]

SD9VEs are currently $244 shipped at Brownells with discount code MDW:

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/handguns/sem...92573.aspx (https://www.brownells.com/firearms/handguns/semi-auto/sd9ve-4in-9mm-stainless-16-1rd-prod92573.aspx?avad=avant&aid=167555&cm_mmc=affiliate-_-Itwine-_-Avantlink-_-ale&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Avantlink&utm_content=NA&utm_campaign=Itwine)

And it’s 16+1?! How is this thing not a Glock killer? [emoji57]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kyle Reese]

SD9VEs are currently $244 shipped at Brownells with discount code MDW:

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/handguns/sem...92573.aspx (https://www.brownells.com/firearms/handguns/semi-auto/sd9ve-4in-9mm-stainless-16-1rd-prod92573.aspx?avad=avant&aid=167555&cm_mmc=affiliate-_-Itwine-_-Avantlink-_-ale&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Avantlink&utm_content=NA&utm_campaign=Itwine)I should pick one up.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[JWH]

Does anyone know if there are shorter magazines that would make a grip chop feasible?

[FreedomFries]

There will be a gadget for the SD pistols.

Is this still in the works?

I'm a newer member here, but I'm guessing that there still may be a lot of interest in this happening. The SD9 comes closer to a DAO trigger than most, if not all, other striker fired pistols. It also takes M&P sights so it has a lot of versatility. An SD9 specific SCD and Tony @ JMCK finishing his new SD9 CNC holster mold would make this pistol a serious contender.

[TheNewbie]

Is this still in the works?

I'm a newer member here, but I'm guessing that there still may be a lot of interest in this happening. The SD9 comes closer to a DAO trigger than most, if not all, other striker fired pistols. It also takes M&P sights so it has a lot of versatility. An SD9 specific SCD and Tony @ JMCK finishing his new SD9 CNC holster mold would make this pistol a serious contender.


Plus it fits M&P holsters according to Lon.

[Lon]

Plus it fits M&P holsters according to Lon.

It does indeed. I just got a Safariland 6378 for an M&P with a Streamlight TLR. And my SD9/Nightstick TWM-350 works perfectly in it.

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44465

[FreedomFries]

Plus it fits M&P holsters according to Lon.


It does indeed. I just got a Safariland 6378 for an M&P with a Streamlight TLR. And my SD9/Nightstick TWM-350 works perfectly in it.

44464
44465

I have a JMCK AIWB 2.0 for the M&P M2.0 and I can shove the SD9 in but it isn't a good fit. Maybe duty holsters or light bearing holsters work well, but a fitted Kydex holster for the pistol alone doesn't seem to fit both models well.

[Lon]

I have a JMCK AIWB 2.0 for the M&P M2.0 and I can shove the SD9 in but it isn't a good fit. Maybe duty holsters or light bearing holsters work well, but a fitted Kydex holster for the pistol alone doesn't seem to fit both models well.

Hmmmmm. It fits just fine in my JMCK M&P AIWB w/wingclaw holster. Just needed to loosen screw a bit.

44470

[FreedomFries]

Hmmmmm. It fits just fine in my JMCK M&P AIWB w/wingclaw holster. Just needed to loosen screw a bit.

44470

It fits my AIWB 2.0 but the retention doesn't have a nice click in. It looks like the shell is being spread a bit. It probably would work fine, but it isn't a great fit on my SD9. My holster is a thumb safety model, so I wonder if that's why it doesn't double as an SD9 holster well.

[Tony Mayer]

Guys, just an FYI, we will be add the SD9VE to our holster list in the next month or so! Thanks

[TheNewbie]

Just need a gadget!


Can you still get all black versions of the pistol?

[FreedomFries]

I still don't have a ton of rounds through my SD9 yet, but I've noticed that it frequently misses slide lock when empty. As others have mentioned, it can often be the thumb resting on the slide lock lever, however, I've noticed that some magazines do not exert enough upwards force on the slide lock lever to lock the slide reliably after the last round or even when manually cycling the slide. S&W replaced one of my magazines in 2017, but I believe that the replacement magazine now exhibits the same behavior after just a few boxes of ammo. Has anyone else noted any problems with their SD9 magazines or SD9 pistols achieving slide lock (when user error with the thumb is clearly not to blame)?

[echo5charlie]

I still don't have a ton of rounds through my SD9 yet, but I've noticed that it frequently misses slide lock when empty. As others have mentioned, it can often be the thumb resting on the slide lock lever, however, I've noticed that some magazines do not exert enough upwards force on the slide lock lever to lock the slide reliably after the last round or even when manually cycling the slide. S&W replaced one of my magazines in 2017, but I believe that the replacement magazine now exhibits the same behavior after just a few boxes of ammo. Has anyone else noted any problems with their SD9 magazines or SD9 pistols achieving slide lock (when user error with the thumb is clearly not to blame)?

I can say that there is an issue with the 6 mags I have for mine. All 6 just barely engage the slide stop to the point that even the very slightest downward pressure will send the slide home with an empty mag in place. Slide lock while shooting doesn't happen as I know I'm hitting the lever. A Dremel will be lopping off a portion of the lever so that my thumb will no longer influence the function.

[frozentundra]

Every time I log on to P-F and see activity in this thread, I have an unreasonable flash of hope that the SD9-Gadget has been announced.

I would probably carry this gun instead of my G19 if it had a Gadget.

[FreedomFries]

I can say that there is an issue with the 6 mags I have for mine. All 6 just barely engage the slide stop to the point that even the very slightest downward pressure will send the slide home with an empty mag in place. Slide lock while shooting doesn't happen as I know I'm hitting the lever. A Dremel will be lopping off a portion of the lever so that my thumb will no longer influence the function.

So it seems that the magazines might be a weak point in this design. Some YouTube video I saw mentioned just giving the spring a gentle stretch as a cure for the problem. I was somewhat incredulous that this would help, given that it was from YouTube and that a little tug on a magazine spring is unlikely to change anything major about its elasticity. However, I tried it and now the problematic magazine achieves slide lock reliably. My theory is maybe the follower was attached to the magazine spring in some unusual way and this somehow remedied it. I do wonder if increased power magazine springs would help, but I cannot find any for the SDVE. I also intend to chop my slide stop lever down about 1/4” and cold blue the cut.


Every time I log on to P-F and see activity in this thread, I have an unreasonable flash of hope that the SD9-Gadget has been announced.

I would probably carry this gun instead of my G19 if it had a Gadget.

I tried my Glock Gen 1-4 SCD in the SD9 and it locks in, but the fit is not good enough for me to recommend using it on the SD9. The plate is maybe 1/32" too thin so there is some front to back movement and the striker sleeve isn't seated forward enough in the slide at rest. Due to the striker sleeve being incompletely seated, I am guessing the risk of light primer strike is increased. It's probably not incredibly safe to have movement in the slide cover plate either. I too am hoping that he is still planning an SD9 gadget. I tried the Apex springs in mine and love it, but not going to carry this with a 5.5 lbs trigger AIWB until Gadget is available. I can't reasonably prove that a 6.5 or 7.5 lbs trigger is somehow safer than 5.5 lbs, but it makes me feel slightly better. With Ameriglo sights, this thing rocks and I like it better than my Glocks.

4897048971

[FreedomFries]

I forgot to update that I got another JMCK M2.0 5” holster and my SD9VE fits into this one perfectly with some extra length for more stability in AIWB. Whatever changes were made to the mold seems to have also improved compatibility with the SDVE series.

[OlongJohnson]

Might be worth actually making contact with Wolff (gunsprings.com) on the mag spring issue. A lot of times, companies know stuff that isn't on the web site.

Or maybe do some google image search work looking for springs that are likely alternate candidates.

I'm glad I sold mine, or my little terrier brain would dig into this question...

[frozentundra]

I tried the Apex springs in mine and love it, but not going to carry this with a 5.5 lbs trigger AIWB until Gadget is available. I can't reasonably prove that a 6.5 or 7.5 lbs trigger is somehow safer than 5.5 lbs, but it makes me feel slightly better. With Ameriglo sights, this thing rocks and I like it better than my Glocks.



I'm not being critical of making the SD9 trigger more shootable. That's certainly the overwhelming trend in modern polymer striker-fired pistols. I have never touched a gun with Apex parts, and I'm sure it has merit depending on what you're trying to get out of the modifications.

However, I personally consider the somewhat long(ish), heavy(ish) trigger in the SD9 to be a feature and not a bug. I think of it as the easiest to shoot double-action revolver trigger imaginable. In a package that holds 17 rounds. In this particular case, I feel the S&W marketing hype of the 'SDT'-Self Defense Trigger--being purpose designed for defensive applications--may actually hit close to the mark.

My thinking here was influenced heavily by Darryl Bolke's writing about triggers that are perhaps optimized for 'people management' and problem solving in a crisis, as opposed to triggers that are optimized for shooting performance in a safe and appropriate shooting venue.

There are certainly valid arguments to be made for and against this line of reasoning, but I have settled on a more conservative approach to shootability vs a slower, more deliberate cadence for civilian defensive applications. There is an understandable trend for P-Fers to chase elite competition level performance metrics. I just don't think those metrics are what everybody should be chasing, obviously depending on their specific situation and goals.

Honestly, it kind of drives me nuts seeing YouTube videos by 'sootch00' and 'nutnfancy' types getting millions of views about the Walther PPQ type guns having the BEST triggers. :(

[frozentundra]

I forgot to update that I got another JMCK M2.0 5” holster and my SD9VE fits into this one perfectly with some extra length for more stability in AIWB. Whatever changes were made to the mold seems to have also improved compatibility with the SDVE series.

Intersting. I have an IWB #3 from JM that I bought in 2017. It's the only holster from JM that I've ever been disappointed in. It works, but it doesn't feel like it really fits the gun like my other JM's. Then they discontinued support for the SD9 for a while.

I'm glad to hear that they're supporting the model again and that they've worked out the kinks.

[LockedBreech]

I'm not being critical of making the SD9 trigger more shootable. That's certainly the overwhelming trend in modern polymer striker-fired pistols. I have never touched a gun with Apex parts, and I'm sure it has merit depending on what you're trying to get out of the modifications.

However, I personally consider the somewhat long(ish), heavy(ish) trigger in the SD9 to be a feature and not a bug. I think of it as the easiest to shoot double-action revolver trigger imaginable. In a package that holds 17 rounds. In this particular case, I feel the S&W marketing hype of the 'SDT'-Self Defense Trigger--being purpose designed for defensive applications--may actually hit close to the mark.

My thinking here was influenced heavily by Darryl Bolke's writing about triggers that are perhaps optimized for 'people management' and problem solving in a crisis, as opposed to triggers that are optimized for shooting performance in a safe and appropriate shooting venue.

There are certainly valid arguments to be made for and against this line of reasoning, but I have settled on a more conservative approach to shootability vs a slower, more deliberate cadence for civilian defensive applications. There is an understandable trend for P-Fers to chase elite competition level performance metrics. I just don't think those metrics are what everybody should be chasing, obviously depending on their specific situation and goals.

Honestly, it kind of drives me nuts seeing YouTube videos by 'sootch00' and 'nutnfancy' types getting millions of views about the Walther PPQ type guns having the BEST triggers. :(

Totally, essentially it's a HK LEM (Heavy). Great people management/anti-stress trigger.

[FreedomFries]

Might be worth actually making contact with Wolff (gunsprings.com) on the mag spring issue. A lot of times, companies know stuff that isn't on the web site.

I will probably write to them later and see if they have anything compatible.


I'm not being critical of making the SD9 trigger more shootable. That's certainly the overwhelming trend in modern polymer striker-fired pistols. I have never touched a gun with Apex parts, and I'm sure it has merit depending on what you're trying to get out of the modifications.

However, I personally consider the somewhat long(ish), heavy(ish) trigger in the SD9 to be a feature and not a bug. I think of it as the easiest to shoot double-action revolver trigger imaginable. In a package that holds 17 rounds. In this particular case, I feel the S&W marketing hype of the 'SDT'-Self Defense Trigger--being purpose designed for defensive applications--may actually hit close to the mark.

My thinking here was influenced heavily by Darryl Bolke's writing about triggers that are perhaps optimized for 'people management' and problem solving in a crisis, as opposed to triggers that are optimized for shooting performance in a safe and appropriate shooting venue.

There are certainly valid arguments to be made for and against this line of reasoning, but I have settled on a more conservative approach to shootability vs a slower, more deliberate cadence for civilian defensive applications. There is an understandable trend for P-Fers to chase elite competition level performance metrics. I just don't think those metrics are what everybody should be chasing, obviously depending on their specific situation and goals.

Honestly, it kind of drives me nuts seeing YouTube videos by 'sootch00' and 'nutnfancy' types getting millions of views about the Walther PPQ type guns having the BEST triggers. :(

I agree that many of the things people complain about with the trigger are features rather than a problem. My SDVE was about 7.5-8 lbs out of the box and smoothed out to a pretty consistent 7.5 lbs with a few hundred rounds and some dry fire work. I really appreciate that the weight of the trigger is fairly consistent throughout the somewhat long pull. This is what differentiates it from Glock and most other SFA pistols that have a light pretravel followed by a wall then break.

My goal with the Apex springs was to get something more like 6.5 lbs and smooth it out some, kind of like a tuned B92 trigger in DA with a lightened hammer spring. I wanted to generally keep the overall feel of the SD9 trigger. After installing the kit, it got down to about 5 lbs 10 oz, which was slightly lighter than I was looking for. I didn't think the potential cons of a light striker spring were worth the .75-1 lbs reduction in pull weight in a carry gun. The trigger bar riding in the sear has some mild grit that doesn't really bother me, but was enough to make the light FPBS feel pointless since I couldn't well differentiate the grit from the FPB plunger being pushed. Wasn't enough improvement to be worth using in a carry gun, but maybe if just a range toy. According to my Lyman, changing the FPBS didn't really significantly change the weight of the trigger pull. I'd rather have the OEM FPBS to help push the plunger through any dirt or carbon accumulation. So in the end, I only ended up using the lightened TRS which brought it down to 6.5 lbs. The Apex spring kit is nice, but in the future, I probably wouldn't get it for any future SDVEs that I get. If I were to do IDPA again and continue with the SD9, I'd probably use the Apex kit in its entirety because it does feel pretty good and then just use a separate stock factory SD9 for carry.


Intersting. I have an IWB #3 from JM that I bought in 2017. It's the only holster from JM that I've ever been disappointed in. It works, but it doesn't feel like it really fits the gun like my other JM's. Then they discontinued support for the SD9 for a while.

I'm glad to hear that they're supporting the model again and that they've worked out the kinks.

I'm not sure it is intentional support for the SD9. It was just an incidental finding that my new M2.0 JM holster fits the SD9 perfectly but my older M2.0 JM holster wasn't a good fit. Both fit the M2.0 perfectly, as you'd expect.

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[OlongJohnson]

My SD9 went down the road because I couldn't get the roughness out of it. I had the roughness cornered and knew where it was, and the cost to do anything more about it would have been unreasonable. That, and the multiple defective parts out of the box (or at least as I got it, appearing to have had less than a box of ammo through it) left a general sense of crappiness about it.

I have a couple P250s that have extremely smooth triggers. They achieve the idea that is attractive about the SD9 for me.

[frozentundra]

I have a couple P250s that have extremely smooth triggers. They achieve the idea that is attractive about the SD9 for me.

I really wish I would have bought a few p250 compacts when they were cheap and plentiful. My criteria for what I want in a pistol have changed a lot since the 250 was around.

I actually find my SD9 sample to be really smooth as opposed to rough, though.

[OlongJohnson]

It should be smooth. The roughness remaining in mine was due to really lame finish on the drilled hole in the slide that the striker block has to move up and down in while pressed against the side of the bore by the trigger bar. It looked like they either caught a chip or had a chip missing from the drill; it was really ugly. Smooth it out, and the hole would have been sloppy big. There are things that could have been done, like plating/coating the slide or drilling it oversize and pressing in a bushing, but those options would have cost what the gun was worth.

I like the concept of the SD9VE a lot; just the execution of mine was a dumpster fire, one of many I've received from S&W.

[FreedomFries]

It should be smooth. The roughness remaining in mine was due to really lame finish on the drilled hole in the slide that the striker block has to move up and down in while pressed against the side of the bore by the trigger bar. It looked like they either caught a chip or had a chip missing from the drill; it was really ugly. Smooth it out, and the hole would have been sloppy big. There are things that could have been done, like plating/coating the slide or drilling it oversize and pressing in a bushing, but those options would have cost what the gun was worth.

I like the concept of the SD9VE a lot; just the execution of mine was a dumpster fire, one of many I've received from S&W.

They probably would have replaced the slide if you sent it in. Did you call customer service about it at all?

[OlongJohnson]

Not after I'd gotten that far. Because the gun functioned reliably (by that point), it never occurred to me to send it back. They'd with certainty have just fired it and said it was fine.

Earlier, they did send me a new recoil spring assembly after the one that came in the gun spontaneously self-disassembled while sitting on my bench as I cleaned the gun. Pretty sure there are pics earlier in this thread showing my actual solution - a cut-down G17 guide rod. And they sent a new striker to replace the original one that was bent like a banana and hitting the inside of the breech face in the striker channel before emerging.

[frozentundra]

I thought I'd update this thread.

My SD9VE wound up living with someone I care about who didn't have a gun of their own. It gets shot a little bit, and I still shoot it myself every once in a while.

It's probably got around 2000 rounds now, and it has never failed to cycle rounds regardless of who shoots it or their ability to grip a handgun.

However, it doesn't seem to lock back on empty with all the magazines anymore, even if I'm not interfering with the slide stop. I think the following observation by FreedomFries probably applies to my sample with at least some of it's magazines. Although, I haven't tried taking them apart to mess with them.



So it seems that the magazines might be a weak point in this design. Some YouTube video I saw mentioned just giving the spring a gentle stretch as a cure for the problem. I was somewhat incredulous that this would help, given that it was from YouTube and that a little tug on a magazine spring is unlikely to change anything major about its elasticity. However, I tried it and now the problematic magazine achieves slide lock reliably. My theory is maybe the follower was attached to the magazine spring in some unusual way and this somehow remedied it. I do wonder if increased power magazine springs would help, but I cannot find any for the SDVE. I also intend to chop my slide stop lever down about 1/4” and cold blue the cut.



I think it's pretty ideal for it's current role. However, it's hard to recommend it as a new purchase as of today, May-26-2020, vs the M&P 2.0. When SD9VEs are currently going for around $300, new M&P 2.0 fullsize/compacts seem hard to pass up at just over $400 if you can swing an extra hundred bucks or so. Of course, pricing and availability will probably be subject to change in the future, so my relative value assessment is certainly variable too.

The SD9VE is still a good gun to defend yourself with, but it still doesn't have a Gadget available to recommend it over the M&P, and the mags may make slidelock reloads less likely to happen reliably over time. This isn't really a concern for my gun in it's current role; a slidelock reload after firing 17 rounds of 147 HST probably just isn't going to happen for it's user.

More important by far is this gun's ability to cycle reliably if it gets "limp wristed", and it has proven itself 100% reliable in this regard with any type of ammo fed to it so far. The value of this simply can't be overstated.

It's hard not to like my sample for this reason alone!

[OlongJohnson]

3D printed polymer?

[Duelist]

FWIW, I can promise that there will be one (simply because I have a bunch of these guns and I want SCDs for them), but it probably won't be available until late this year (if not later). The reason is that it'll cost more than a Glock SCD to make and an accessory that costs almost a third the price of a budget gun is going to be a hard sell to most SD owners. I'm almost certain I'll never sell enough to break even on a small production run, so as soon as I can afford another charity/passion project (I'll probably never break even on the existing G42 SCD or the upcoming G44 one), I will get them done. In the meantime, I'm investigating ways to make less expensive SCDs for this gun -- but even that will have a large upfront cost that I'll likely never recoup.

I bought two G42 SCDs and I’ll buy a G44 as soon as you’ve got one to sell. I feel my kids end up liking my G44 as much as I do, I’ll end up with several.

I know that’s not a lot, but I like them and I have one on every Glock in the stable, except the G44 obviously.

[frozentundra]

FWIW, I can promise that there will be one (simply because I have a bunch of these guns and I want SCDs for them), but it probably won't be available until late this year (if not later). The reason is that it'll cost more than a Glock SCD to make and an accessory that costs almost a third the price of a budget gun is going to be a hard sell to most SD owners. I'm almost certain I'll never sell enough to break even on a small production run, so as soon as I can afford another charity/passion project (I'll probably never break even on the existing G42 SCD or the upcoming G44 one), I will get them done. In the meantime, I'm investigating ways to make less expensive SCDs for this gun -- but even that will have a large upfront cost that I'll likely never recoup.

That's awesome news, Tom! I had long thought the cost of the SCD relative to the SD9VE purchase price was too high a hurdle. Here's hoping we're both wrong.

It really is an important product. It's hard for me to fathom that the industry doesn't consider SCD-type functionality mandatory for striker guns meant to be carried.

It's kind of funny that I bought my SD9VE as a Glock 19 alternative specifically for it's shorter trigger reach. I had been wishing for a G19 sized M&P 9mm for years and had grown impatient. Immediately after I purchased it, S&W announced the M&P 2.0 Compact model. I never got around to carrying the SD9 because my Glock 19 has a SCD, and I prioritized SCD over trigger reach. Fast-forward to 2020 and now my kid is shooting 9mms, too. The Glock trigger reach is just too much, and she'll never have big hands. Today I decided to finally buy an M&P 2.0 Compact for it's very short trigger reach and relatively mild recoil compared to a 48 or P365xl. My plan was to incrementally standardize on the M&P platform as the best compromise platform for me and the kid to both carry and shoot long term.

The same day I finally pulled out my credit card for a platform change, I immediatly get word the SCD for the SD9 is absolutely going to happen.

It seems that I can summon desirable firearms and accessories out of the ether with my credit card. Tomorrow Glock will probably announce a full-width Glock 19 top end on a 48 size grip frame. It'll take 15 round factory steel mags with Agent sights and a Gadget from the factory. They'll call it the Model 19-FU. It'll be the best gun ever made. You are all welcome. :)

[FreedomFries]

I thought I'd update this thread.

My SD9VE wound up living with someone I care about who didn't have a gun of their own. It gets shot a little bit, and I still shoot it myself every once in a while.

It's probably got around 2000 rounds now, and it has never failed to cycle rounds regardless of who shoots it or their ability to grip a handgun.

However, it doesn't seem to lock back on empty with all the magazines anymore, even if I'm not interfering with the slide stop. I think the following observation by FreedomFries probably applies to my sample with at least some of it's magazines. Although, I haven't tried taking them apart to mess with them.





I think it's pretty ideal for it's current role. However, it's hard to recommend it as a new purchase as of today, May-26-2020, vs the M&P 2.0. When SD9VEs are currently going for around $300, new M&P 2.0 fullsize/compacts seem hard to pass up at just over $400 if you can swing an extra hundred bucks or so. Of course, pricing and availability will probably be subject to change in the future, so my relative value assessment is certainly variable too.

The SD9VE is still a good gun to defend yourself with, but it still doesn't have a Gadget available to recommend it over the M&P, and the mags may make slidelock reloads less likely to happen reliably over time. This isn't really a concern for my gun in it's current role; a slidelock reload after firing 17 rounds of 147 HST probably just isn't going to happen for it's user.

More important by far is this gun's ability to cycle reliably if it gets "limp wristed", and it has proven itself 100% reliable in this regard with any type of ammo fed to it so far. The value of this simply can't be overstated.

It's hard not to like my sample for this reason alone!

After cleaning and stretching the magazine spring, it seemed to work OK for a bit. With some use and settling though, it will still sometimes weakly push up on the slide lock lever. I think they should make a revision on the follower design. The HK P30/VP9 magazine got redesigned this year, and it engages the slide lock lever much more forcefully now. Maybe Smith could do something similar, but I'm guessing tweaking the SD9 isn't a high priority for them.

Mine had some initial problems cycling with weak 115 gr range ammo. I wonder if it is a bit oversprung? Otherwise has been fine, especially with 124 gr stuff.

[frozentundra]

After cleaning and stretching the magazine spring, it seemed to work OK for a bit. With some use and settling though, it will still sometimes weakly push up on the slide lock lever. I think they should make a revision on the follower design. The HK P30/VP9 magazine got redesigned this year, and it engages the slide lock lever much more forcefully now. Maybe Smith could do something similar, but I'm guessing tweaking the SD9 isn't a high priority for them.

Mine had some initial problems cycling with weak 115 gr range ammo. I wonder if it is a bit oversprung? Otherwise has been fine, especially with 124 gr stuff.

Thanks for the update about the mags.

I also think the recoil spring is on the heavy side for 9mm. Although, I certainly can't fault my gun's ability to cycle reliably with it. It seems they use the same part# for the 9 and the .40 guns. Midwest Gunworks has it listed as the same part for both guns. https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/251350000

I often leave a new gun at slidelock in the case for a while, and then I usually start out with a few boxes of medium power ammo. My theory is that this allows the recoil spring to take it's "initial set" and gives the gun a chance to wear down some micro-abrasive friction points from the machining processes. I don't know if any of this is actually true, but it's my voodoo superstition anyway.

Perhaps this is why I never experienced any malfunctions with weak ammo?

After several hundred rounds through a new gun, I will usually try my best to induce limp-wrist malfunctions with weak ammo in order to determine the guns threshold for reliability with relation to a compromised grip. My copy seems to cycle no matter how i hold it. It has also cycled 100% for smaller kids and adults without anything like a true 'shooters grip'. The ejection pattern is also quite forceful and perhaps more consistent than any other pistol I've used.

All that said, I do wonder how it would handle and cycle with a recoil spring specifically optimized/designed for 9mm and without regard for use in .40 guns. I think it could be even more well suited to people with low hand strength or poor technique for cycling the slide and administratively locking the slide to the rear.

If S&W would update the mag spring/follower, re-spring the 9mm and beef up the guide rods, increase and extend upward the texture on the side panels of the grip, and perhaps use other spring components somewhat closer to an Apex trigger kit from the factory, I think it would make this pistol really, really hard to pass up once a SCD is available. I know it will never happen, but I think this design could be a truly worthy competitor to the Glock 19 with pretty minimal revision. And in more ways than just budget considerations. They have proven they can build a top-tier quality level pistol for less than $300 retail in the M&P Shield 9mm. I suspect they could easily get the SD9 up to this level of quality/durability/reliability with very minimal effort. It's mostly the magazine and recoil spring assembly that need a slight tweak for optimization in my opinion.

[Duelist]

Thanks for the update about the mags.

I also think the recoil spring is on the heavy side for 9mm. Although, I certainly can't fault my gun's ability to cycle reliably with it. It seems they use the same part# for the 9 and the .40 guns. Midwest Gunworks has it listed as the same part for both guns. https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/251350000

I often leave a new gun at slidelock in the case for a while, and then I usually start out with a few boxes of medium power ammo. My theory is that this allows the recoil spring to take it's "initial set" and gives the gun a chance to wear down some micro-abrasive friction points from the machining processes. I don't know if any of this is actually true, but it's my voodoo superstition anyway.

Perhaps this is why I never experienced any malfunctions with weak ammo?

After several hundred rounds through a new gun, I will usually try my best to induce limp-wrist malfunctions with weak ammo in order to determine the guns threshold for reliability with relation to a compromised grip. My copy seems to cycle no matter how i hold it. It has also cycled 100% for smaller kids and adults without anything like a true 'shooters grip'. The ejection pattern is also quite forceful and perhaps more consistent than any other pistol I've used.

All that said, I do wonder how it would handle and cycle with a recoil spring specifically optimized/designed for 9mm and without regard for use in .40 guns. I think it could be even more well suited to people with low hand strength or poor technique for cycling the slide and administratively locking the slide to the rear.

If S&W would update the mag spring/follower, re-spring the 9mm and beef up the guide rods, increase and extend upward the texture on the side panels of the grip, and perhaps use other spring components somewhat closer to an Apex trigger kit from the factory, I think it would make this pistol really, really hard to pass up once a SCD is available. I know it will never happen, but I think this design could be a truly worthy competitor to the Glock 19 with pretty minimal revision. And in more ways than just budget considerations. They have proven they can build a top-tier quality level pistol for less than $300 retail in the M&P Shield 9mm. I suspect they could easily get the SD9 up to this level of quality/durability/reliability with very minimal effort. It's mostly the magazine and recoil spring assembly that need a slight tweak for optimization in my opinion.

I’ve had two SD40s. Both have fallen into my lap, and I’d rather that they had been 9mm. The one I have now has the smoothest trigger, at an acceptable weight, with no wall/break when it lets off, that I’ve ever seen in an SD. No grit, hits where I point it.

I hate shooting them in .40, though, and thus I’d rather this was a 9mm. I have a lot of friends who are BP, and get occasional gifts of .40 ammunition from them, so I won’t throw it away.

[FreedomFries]

Thanks for the update about the mags.

I also think the recoil spring is on the heavy side for 9mm. Although, I certainly can't fault my gun's ability to cycle reliably with it. It seems they use the same part# for the 9 and the .40 guns. Midwest Gunworks has it listed as the same part for both guns. https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/251350000

I often leave a new gun at slidelock in the case for a while, and then I usually start out with a few boxes of medium power ammo. My theory is that this allows the recoil spring to take it's "initial set" and gives the gun a chance to wear down some micro-abrasive friction points from the machining processes. I don't know if any of this is actually true, but it's my voodoo superstition anyway.

Perhaps this is why I never experienced any malfunctions with weak ammo?

After several hundred rounds through a new gun, I will usually try my best to induce limp-wrist malfunctions with weak ammo in order to determine the guns threshold for reliability with relation to a compromised grip. My copy seems to cycle no matter how i hold it. It has also cycled 100% for smaller kids and adults without anything like a true 'shooters grip'. The ejection pattern is also quite forceful and perhaps more consistent than any other pistol I've used.

All that said, I do wonder how it would handle and cycle with a recoil spring specifically optimized/designed for 9mm and without regard for use in .40 guns. I think it could be even more well suited to people with low hand strength or poor technique for cycling the slide and administratively locking the slide to the rear.

If S&W would update the mag spring/follower, re-spring the 9mm and beef up the guide rods, increase and extend upward the texture on the side panels of the grip, and perhaps use other spring components somewhat closer to an Apex trigger kit from the factory, I think it would make this pistol really, really hard to pass up once a SCD is available. I know it will never happen, but I think this design could be a truly worthy competitor to the Glock 19 with pretty minimal revision. And in more ways than just budget considerations. They have proven they can build a top-tier quality level pistol for less than $300 retail in the M&P Shield 9mm. I suspect they could easily get the SD9 up to this level of quality/durability/reliability with very minimal effort. It's mostly the magazine and recoil spring assembly that need a slight tweak for optimization in my opinion.

My issues were a lot of short stroking related problems. Sometimes it would fail to eject completely, but more often, it would eject but then wouldn't strip the next round off the magazine correctly and fail to feed. Weak 115 grain range ammo was a real problem. Until it was broken in, I could get it to fail consistently by limp wristing, or even creating a bit of extra drag on the slide with the high thumbs grip. Had to grip it very firmly with the thumbs down and away from the slide. Now it works fine except slide lock is not guaranteed.

I think if they had used this basic design but made it more high end like the M&P, they'd have a real winner. When the SCD comes out, I'd probably get one or two of those and then waste a ton of money upgrading some SD9VEs with NP3 coated magazines/internals, Apex springs, stippling, and nitride the barrel/slide just to do it.