New Kimbers?

[ReverendMeat]

Hi,
My shop recently took in a new Kimber Custom II two-tone (http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/limited-edition/custom-ii-two-tone). I am pretty impressed with it; the fit is tighter, and it has a better trigger, than any other Kimber in the case (Including the Super Carry).

I also noticed that the firing pin block has been redesigned and was a completely different shape (as in, not cylindrical). These changes make me wonder if there's something different going on at Kimber HQ and if anyone has any experience with recently manufactured Kimbers?

Or, hell, with the Kimber Custom II in general. Given that my current 1911 is a Taurus (which is actually pretty dang good) I've had an eye out for a potential "upgrade" and am thinking about scrounging my pennies together for this pistol. I did a search and I didn't see much in the way of recent threads talking specifically about Kimbers.

[RevolverRob]

I think you'll just find the general consensus is - don't do it -

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12272-Kimber-Pro-Carry-Should-I-even-bother&highlight=Kimber
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12983-Whos-Worse-QC-Wise-Kimber-or-Taurus-1911&highlight=Kimber

There's more out there, but I think you get the gist. The 1911 folks here are not fond of them and the recommendation is Colt Series 70 or Springfield TRP followed by higher end Colts, Springfields, Wilsons, and Nighthawks.

[ReverendMeat]

I read both threads. I'm aware of the reputation that Kimber has (mostly their pros and ultras) but it's always hard to tell how much of that is actually first-hand experience and how much is just repeating a thing that one's heard. I've been thoroughly unimpressed with most of the Kimbers I see but this one in question, that we just got in a couple days ago, actually impresses me. So I'm wondering if it's a fluke or not, but the different firing pin block has me thinking there might have been a permanent change somewhere in the last month or so.

[GardoneVT]

I read both threads. I'm aware of the reputation that Kimber has (mostly their pros and ultras) but it's always hard to tell how much of that is actually first-hand experience and how much is just repeating a thing that one's heard. I've been thoroughly unimpressed with most of the Kimbers I see but this one in question, that we just got in a couple days ago, actually impresses me. So I'm wondering if it's a fluke or not, but the different firing pin block has me thinking there might have been a permanent change somewhere in the last month or so.

Or, perhaps, theyve used an even cheaper part. That theory cuts both ways.

[HopetonBrown]

Springfield Loaded.

[SecondsCount]

The Kimber will be an upgrade from the Taurus.


Springfield Loaded.
Solid choice but still at the bottom of my comfort level.

Also check out the Desert Eagle 1911s. They are a lot of gun for the money and remind me of the Kimbers of old.

[BLR]

If I were in the market for an aprox $1k 1911, I'd get a S70 reissue first. Then I'd look at XSEs.

[LittleLebowski]

I'll never buy Kimber again.

[Jeep]

I'll never buy Kimber again.

Same here.

[ReverendMeat]

Thanks for the input guys. The XSE looks like a good buy, also was thinking about the Springfield MC Operator (I could do without the rail though).

[LSP972]

... a S70 reissue...

Are they still building these?

Upon reflection, that Ed Brown seems a bit… over the top… for what I intend to do with it.

.

[JAD]

They're not only building them again, they're doing it very well.

I understand your thinking, Rev, but there is so much of a skid mark with Kimber between '98 and today that it would take a whole lot of good examples to bring them back into grace.

[HCM]

My 2008 Springer MC Operator replaced a 2007 vintage Kimber Desert Warrior which would not run after three trips back to Kimber.

The current Colts are also very nice. Colt is building some of their best guns in decades.

[ReverendMeat]

My 2008 Springer MC Operator replaced a 2007 vintage Kimber Desert Warrior which would not run after three trips back to Kimber.

The current Colts are also very nice. Colt is building some of their best guns in decades.

Well it looks like an MC Op may be in my future, I assume you like yours? And though I keep hearing how the Colts are nice (I do like their finishes), the triggers are sub-par and their safeties can only be described by the super technical term "squishy". It's too bad Kimber hasn't gotten their act back together because the Custom II is almost everything I'd want out of a 1911 (on paper) minus the drop safety.

[HCM]

Well it looks like an MC Op may be in my future, I assume you like yours? And though I keep hearing how the Colts are nice (I do like their finishes), the triggers are sub-par and their safeties can only be described by the super technical term "squishy". It's too bad Kimber hasn't gotten their act back together because the Custom II is almost everything I'd want out of a 1911 (on paper) minus the drop safety.

It's awesome. The only changes I've made have been a set of VZ Operator II grips and some skateboard tape. Round count is moderate by PF standards at about 3k but I've had zero malfunctions with a variety of ammo and 7 round mags,
There's a used MC Operator at the local fun store and I've had to talk myself out of picking it up.

The only changes I'm planning are a wider notch rear sight to accommodate my aging eyes and getting rid of the ILS mainspring because " reasons". :-)

[rathos]

the problems I have seen with kimbers always comes back to their firing pin safety system. Because it is the schwartz system it requires a perfect fit of the beavertail to allow the firing pin to come through. After trying to talk a friend out of buying one he was insistent on getting a kimber TLE/RL II. It consistently didn't fire the first round in the mag for multiple people but worked after a tap rack. Most of the time it would finish the mag without issues. It was sent back to limber 3 times before it worked and now it is doing ok in the hands of another deputy (who was given full disclosure). If you are set on a kimber look at the warrior series that doesn't employ the firing pin safety. Those don't seem to have as many issues.

[Tamara]

I read both threads. I'm aware of the reputation that Kimber has (mostly their pros and ultras) but it's always hard to tell how much of that is actually first-hand experience and how much is just repeating a thing that one's heard.

I've owned several and worked at Kimber Master Dealers for seven years. My opinions are not based on what some dude on the internet wrote.

[ReverendMeat]

I've owned several and worked at Kimber Master Dealers for seven years. My opinions are not based on what some dude on the internet wrote.

What is your opinion, then? I read the other two threads that were linked to me and you didn't seem to share the same distaste for Kimbers that others do here.

[rathos]

It was always odd to me working for a few kimber master dealers that the only guns we sent back more than the kimber was taurus. It was expected with the taurus because they were so cheap, but with the kimbers being so expensive it always blew me away how many we sent back.


I've owned several and worked at Kimber Master Dealers for seven years. My opinions are not based on what some dude on the internet wrote.

[dbateman]

It was always odd to me working for a few kimber master dealers that the only guns we sent back more than the kimber was taurus. It was expected with the taurus because they were so cheap, but with the kimbers being so expensive it always blew me away how many we sent back.

What blows me away is how often I run into someone with a kimber that won't run and an owner telling me how good a piece machinery it is whilst fighting with the jamomatic.
Whilst simultaneously asking how to fix their gun.

I'm a 1911 guy and I would not buy a new kimber, I'm 100% sure I can make it run but I'm 100% sure it's not worth the hassle.

[BLR]

It was always odd to me working for a few kimber master dealers that the only guns we sent back more than the kimber was taurus. It was expected with the taurus because they were so cheap, but with the kimbers being so expensive it always blew me away how many we sent back.
Food for thought/counter point:

I watched a colt technician test fire a crate full of officers that were returned for feeding issues. All but 2 ran fine with the little old lady running the gun.

I looked at a few Warriors that had the mag well broached at the wrong angle. That was neat.

I saw a bunch of Springers come in that were machined with dull and broken tools. That was ugly beyond words.

I've seen 7 glocks now that had a similar problem as the one I posted in another thread.

So far, and remember I'm not a ninja/armorer, I've only seen 2 types of handgun that were consistently "right."
P30s and P35s.

YMMV, FWIW

I'm low on caffeine, so might be some not to well thought out points.

[JTQ]

Ref Colt Series 70 reissue

Are they still building these?

Upon reflection, that Ed Brown seems a bit… over the top… for what I intend to do with it.

.

http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols/Series70™.aspx

[Tamara]

So far, and remember I'm not a ninja/armorer, I've only seen 2 types of handgun that were consistently "right."
P30s and P35s.

YMMV, FWIW

I'm low on caffeine, so might be some not to well thought out points.

So far (and bear in mind, I'm not ninja/armorer OR an engineer, just some chick who had to deal with unhappy customers) Kimber's expectation/realization ratio is right at a sweet spot for generating butthurt in people holding receipts (all too often four-digit ones.)

Further, nobody who manned a counter during the Great External Extractor Fiasco of 2004 is ever going to have fond thoughts when the company's name is mentioned.

[LSP972]

Ref Colt Series 70 reissue


http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols/Series70™.aspx

Oh, yes, I spent much of last evening poring over that and Bud's prices/availability.

Now I'm thinking I need a Gold Cup...:D Sure wish I still had the 1977-built GC I used to play at IPSC with. Of course, these new ones come with a BoMar-type rear sight, which (if done right) is more durable than the old Eliason sight.

At any rate, Colt it is. Now, to decide which one...

Thanks, man. I appreciate the link.

.

[Tamara]

What is your opinion, then? I read the other two threads that were linked to me and you didn't seem to share the same distaste for Kimbers that others do here.

My opinion?

Okay, let's pretend we're not at p-f.com and I can bring my inner 1911 gun snob out to play: Kimber makes a frame/slide kit as good as anybody's under $1,000. Because if you're like me, and the gun cost less than about a kilobuck and a half, you're going to pitch everything but the frame, slide, and maybe the barrel, bushing, and small pins.

[HopetonBrown]

Thanks for the input guys. The XSE looks like a good buy, also was thinking about the Springfield MC Operator (I could do without the rail though).

An MC Operator is just a Loaded with a different color scheme and rail.

[Mjolnir]

I'll never buy Kimber again.

Ditto


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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[WOLFIE]

Ditto



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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

I like the Sig 1911 guns. Stainless frames, slides, and barrels and they are made well.

[45dotACP]

My opinion?

Okay, let's pretend we're not at p-f.com and I can bring my inner 1911 gun snob out to play: Kimber makes a frame/slide kit as good as anybody's under $1,000. Because if you're like me, and the gun cost less than about a kilobuck and a half, you're going to pitch everything but the frame, slide, and maybe the barrel, bushing, and small pins.

Hehe, so I'm not the only one who looks at a 1911 and says "Well, the frame, slide and barrel seem decent so I can work with that..." am I?

[mizer67]

Reading too much p-f.com has me wanting a DW Valor to Springfield TRP, rather than a slide and frame starter kit.

Then I remember I could get three of the latest and greatest plastic bullet launchers for the same price and not have get setup to load for another caliber. That's enough to give me pause.

[Mjolnir]

My opinion?

Okay, let's pretend we're not at p-f.com and I can bring my inner 1911 gun snob out to play: Kimber makes a frame/slide kit as good as anybody's under $1,000. Because if you're like me, and the gun cost less than about a kilobuck and a half, you're going to pitch everything but the frame, slide, and maybe the barrel, bushing, and small pins.

Darn it, Tamara....

We think alike.

We have to get together for coffee before I leave the area.


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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[Shipwreck]

I would highly recommend a Dan Wesson Valor. I have owned many Springers and other brands over the years. IMHO - it's the tops in standard production gun. I also usually prefer ONLY 3 dot sight setups. I was on the fence with the setup that comes on the Valor. I needn't have. I love the sights now - fell in love on the very first range trip.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/Valor-hammerdown1_zps7a05555c.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/Valor-back1_zps1340c910.jpg

[ReverendMeat]

I've been eyeballing the Valors too but my budget doesn't allow for it right now. Currently I'm thinking about the Colt 1991 and throwing in a couple parts to make it a bit more shootable though it might just be worth saving up some more and getting the Valor at some point. Problem is our primary distributor rarely has CZ/DW guns and chances are by the time I've got the money, it'll be out of stock.

ETA: That is a sweet pistol btw. The Valor (black, preferably) looks like everything I want out of a production 1911 and nothing I don't.

[tremiles]

Bud's has a blued 5" XSE for 940, parked for 970, stainless for 1050.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Shipwreck]

Well, I've seen Valors as cheap as the upper $1400s on line. I paid a little more than that at my local shop - but I didn't even know I was looking for the gun. I just saw it at my local shop and made the mistake of picking it up :P

Then I had to have it

[Robinson]

Currently I'm thinking about the Colt 1991 and throwing in a couple parts to make it a bit more shootable though it might just be worth saving up some more and getting the Valor at some point.

IMO Colt is making fine pistols. There is nothing wrong with the 1991 unless you can't live with the Series 80 parts. However, if you plan to make significant upgrades such as sights and a beavertail grip safety, you will probably be further ahead going with a XSE. Even if you don't like the Novak sights on the XSE they are easy to switch out for something else including tritium options. Upgrading the sights on the 1991 is a different matter altogether and will require patience and a bit of research.

Two of my Colts started as basic 1991 pistols but they have been upgraded quite a bit by a trusted gunsmith. I am very happy with the guns including the original build quality. I also have a Series 70 repro that is very solid.

[farscott]

My opinion?

Okay, let's pretend we're not at p-f.com and I can bring my inner 1911 gun snob out to play: Kimber makes a frame/slide kit as good as anybody's under $1,000. Because if you're like me, and the gun cost less than about a kilobuck and a half, you're going to pitch everything but the frame, slide, and maybe the barrel, bushing, and small pins.

As an unrepentant 1911 lover who has bought more than a dozen pistols to use as base guns for one custom or another, my preference for base guns is as follows:

1) Blued Colt Series '70 reissues

2) Parkerized SA Mil-Specs

If I want to keep the barrel, I stick with Colt as the Colt barrel, when paired with a properly fit bushing, is as good as any other barrel on the market. If the gun is going to be re-barreled due to a caliber swap, SA gets the nod as the Mil-Spec can be found with some careful shopping for about $300 less than the Colt, and it is a heck of a lot easier to find a 9x19 SA than a .38 Super Colt. Both guns are made from good carbon steel and my smith has never complained about pins being in the wrong spot or of the wrong diameter on either brand. Not been able to say that about Kimber or a few others, including one really weird Caspian frame. That being said, Caspian made good on that frame with no hesitation. Kimber, not so much.

[Al T.]

it's always hard to tell how much of that is actually first-hand experience and how much is just repeating a thing that one's heard.

This place is different. ;)

[mizer67]

I've been eyeballing the Valors too but my budget doesn't allow for it right now. Currently I'm thinking about the Colt 1991 and throwing in a couple parts to make it a bit more shootable though it might just be worth saving up some more and getting the Valor at some point. Problem is our primary distributor rarely has CZ/DW guns and chances are by the time I've got the money, it'll be out of stock.

ETA: That is a sweet pistol btw. The Valor (black, preferably) looks like everything I want out of a production 1911 and nothing I don't.

I'm really digging the Valor too.

Still, if I go down that route, I'm in for another significant expenditure to buy the conversion kit and components I need to load 2K rds. of .45 ACP, so it's really an expensive choice.

[ReverendMeat]

The XSE would be almost exactly what I'm looking for, except for the firing pin safety, FLGR, front slide serrations, ambi safety. None of which are a huge deal and while the brain says "do it" the heart seems to be saying "DW Valor."

Also, regarding the Colt Series 70 I notice they don't have a lowered/flared ejection port. Would that be a deal breaker for anyone, or is it not particularly important?

[Robinson]

Also, regarding the Colt Series 70 I notice they don't have a lowered/flared ejection port. Would that be a deal breaker for anyone, or is it not particularly important?

The standard ejection port on my S70 has not caused any problems other than occasionally sending a hot case down the back of my neck.

[rathos]

lowered and flared ejection port just puts less stress on the brass for reloading. So if you aren't a hand loader or don't give your brass to friends to load its not a deal breaker.



Also, regarding the Colt Series 70 I notice they don't have a lowered/flared ejection port. Would that be a deal breaker for anyone, or is it not particularly important?

[farscott]

[snip]

Also, regarding the Colt Series 70 I notice they don't have a lowered/flared ejection port. Would that be a deal breaker for anyone, or is it not particularly important?

To me, the flaring and lowering of the port is not the issue as a properly tuned gun with the original spec port will extract and eject without crushing the brass. The issue is a stock 1911 with a stock ejector and ejection port does not reliably eject a loaded round through the short port. When you try to, the round usually comes out through the magazine well, and I really do not like how a round's primer may strike the ejector as it rattles its way out of the gun. The relief cut at the front of the ejection port facilitates the ejection of a loaded round. If the slide is going to get cut, one might as well flare and lower the port while there as it can provide margin for clean ejection.

[ReverendMeat]

Apologies for the old thread bump, but I just wanted to thank everybody that contributed to this thread who talked me out of buying that Kimber. I ended up going with a black Dan Wesson Valor--had to throw some trade-ins at it first but I'm glad I did, and even more glad that I didn't make any impulsive decisions that I was considering when I started this thread.

Thanks again guys