Delta Elite

[SteveK]

I'm looking for any insight/experience with this particular gun and the 10mm cartridge. I've always had an unhealthy, attraction for this gun and am seriously considering pulling the wallet trigger on this one. I'm not interested in the "short & weak" version of the 10 and I'd like to hear everyone's experience with issues or advantages that running a full house 10 in the 1911 platform bring and what brand magazines seem to work. Trying to figure out if there is any upside/downside to chasing this over just living with the .45 acp.

[jkb4c]

I have a recent production Delta that I bought two months ago as a general outdoor-carry/conversation piece. I've been happy with it so far, but I have read that the Delta Elites occasionally run into trouble with very hot 10mm loads, due to the standard/non-ramped barrel resulting in less-than-desirable case support. Underwood Ammo has a disclaimer that some of their 10mm loadings shouldn't be used in the Delta: (see http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx). I've fired plenty of factory 10mm from Remington and Hornady and haven't seen any signs of over-pressure on the recovered brass, but I also don't plan on putting any of the particularly hot stuff through the pistol.

I know BLR has posted some pictures of a seriously sweet 10mm or two, so hopefully he'll be along to give us his thoughts.

[Leroy]

I read an article where a gun writer had a 6" Delta built for hunting, it just sounds awesome. For a gun like that reloading is your friend.

[BLR]

I'm looking for any insight/experience with this particular gun and the 10mm cartridge. I've always had an unhealthy, attraction for this gun and am seriously considering pulling the wallet trigger on this one. I'm not interested in the "short & weak" version of the 10 and I'd like to hear everyone's experience with issues or advantages that running a full house 10 in the 1911 platform bring and what brand magazines seem to work. Trying to figure out if there is any upside/downside to chasing this over just living with the .45 acp.

The key to 10mm happiness is a WC CQB-E with Tripp mags.

A close second is a NHC Predator w/ same mags.

Tripp mags and CQBs. That's my happy spot.

[GJM]

Are you looking for a 10 or 1911 in 10?

I really like my 1066/1076. A lot lower cost, available on Gunbroker, soft shooting, and feeds a wide range of ammo.

I am down to one 1911 in 10, a JoJo's tuned Delta that runs great. From the start, I have only used Tripp mags. Previously I had several Deltas that were iffy feeding, and became 100 percent once I went to Tripp mags.

[JHC]

Are you looking for a 10 or 1911 in 10?

I really like my 1066/1076. A lot lower cost, available on Gunbroker, soft shooting, and feeds a wide range of ammo.

I am down to one 1911 in 10, a JoJo's tuned Delta that runs great. From the start, I have only used Tripp mags. Previously I had several Deltas that were iffy feeding, and became 100 percent once I went to Tripp mags.

Have you shot those Smiths for precision yet? I mean . . . slowly. ;)

[Sensei]

All of my experience with the 10mm cartridge comes from the G20 (Gen 3 and Gen4) and G29. This is my go-to backpacking gun.

Most off the shelf 10mm loads are watered down to 40SW velocities. Hornady's line using the XTP bullet and the Winchester Silver Tip at 175 grains start to approach full power 10mm pressures. Historically, you had to look to boutique ammo companies for commercial grade full power loadings. However the new Federal Trophy Bonded Soft Point might be just what the doctor ordered for those wanting a factory full-power option from an established name.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/hunting/new-2014-federal-trophy-bonded-10mm-ammunition/

[theJanitor]

Jason Burton mentioned recently that he welds up the disconnector rail (by the firing pin plunger, or something), in Colt Deltas to strengthen a weak area. I'll try to look up his statement.

I have a Garthwaite built Delta, which doesn't get shot a whole lot, but carried often. There's no need to shoot out a delta. Practice with a standard 1911, shoot the Delta when appropriate. Just like if I were carrying a lightweight 1911, I'd be practicing with a steel framed copy

[theJanitor]

Found this statement by Don Williams regarding the delta slide:

Any Deltas that come into my shop for any significant work get converted to '70 Series, with repair of the disconnector cut in the slide, and filling of the plunger hole for the '80 Series plunger. These slides are commonly damaged due to the thin wall of the disconnector cut on the one side, and lack of any wall on the other side because of the plunger. You can help control your slide velocity somewhat by adding a firing pin stop with a very small radius at bottom, and switching to a 25# hammer spring in lieu of the stock 23# part. Repair of the disconnector cut in the slide and removal of the plunger gives the hammer 2 sides to ride on and aids longevity. Dave has also talked about reconfiguring the hammer to give a larger top area which will spread out the pressure on the slide minimizing wear.


what the problem looks like:

http://s19.postimg.org/tsyx6c6jn/colt2.jpg

[GJM]

Does the Wilson CQB incorporate these 10mm specific mods?

[theJanitor]

Wilson is "series 70", so the disconnector rail mod is not needed

[Bergeron]

Per the Delta Elite, I've owned two and am always interested in discussion on the topic.

Gun 1 was purchased used at a Lafayette, LA gun shop. There was minor bluing wear near the muzzle on one side of the gun. There was only very minimal wear on the plastic recoil spring plug, so it was only very lightly used. I had a local shop install a lowered firing pin stop, an extra power hammer spring, a steel recoil spring plug with a 20# variable rate recoil spring. Short of increasing the mass of the barrel and/or compensating the gun, this is about as much as I thought I could slow the slide down on the recoil stroke without risking battering the slide stop/slide stop hole or reducing feed reliablity.

The stock Delta beavertail concentrates pressure in the web of my hand as I grip the gun, so I also had the local shop install the Wilson beavertail grip safety that is designed to not require frame alterations. Far and away not pretty, but it kept me from having to make any permanent modifications to the gun. I percieved a need for hardware to increase my reloading speed, so I also had the local guys install an extended magazine relase (I'm sorry) and mag well that hooked onto the grip screws (also sorry).

I would shoot the pistol until my hand began to hurt, and I could identify the troublesome spot on the gun and have them attended to. Once finished, I found that the rear of the gun had was smooth, with no hard corners or sharp edges except the checkering.

I ended up spending a summer in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, and the then-Coal Creek Armory refit the wide Ed Brown safety that I had installed with the other parts. I also got my magazines from them, on their recommendation. I can't recall the brand, but they worked. The gun was unfortunately stolen later, but by that time had suffered a single malfunction in the course of a few thousand rounds.

It hit to the center of the sight picture, and I have found the Delta finger piece to be as comfortable as any trigger I've touched. Gun 1 had a very smooth trigger action and release, and I have also found these things to be true for Gun 2.

Gun 2 was a recent acquisition, and is an interesting contrast to Gun 1. Gun 2 has the same bluing wear at the muzzle (which was curiously interesting), wavy lines, slide markings of uneven depth, and machining marks on the slide and frame. I can move the slide on the frame from side to side and watch the gap between the two change. The trigger rattles and moves in the frame in ways that Gun 1 did not. The plastic recoil spring has a visible indention where the slide impacts a thin metal plate over the imact surface of the recoil spring. I would still consider this a low round count gun.

I fired 75 rounds of factory Remington 180 grain ammunition through Gun 2 with three failures to feed. Two of the malfunctions were with the magazine that shipped with the gun, which in shape appears similar to my old remaining Delta, 8-round capacity and blued, but there are different markings on the mag. The other malfuction was with one of my old aftermarket mags that had been reliable in Gun 1. They had, however, spent several years knocking around in boxes throughout several moves, so I'm just as suspicisious of my treatmeant of the magazine for that malf as I am the gun. I also harbor suspicisons about the mag the gun came with.

I was happily shooting Gun 1 in bowling pin and local action matches with plans to eventually have it rebuilt and further modified, but I plan to refrain from shooting Gun 2 until I can have it properly sorted out. While I'm sure that going back to the heavier hammer spring, flat bottomed firing pin stop, and modern recoil spring setup along with getting new mags would be my best bet for getting the gun working, I am concerned that I could be causing damage in a gun that needs a re-fit. Gun 2 really needs a pro to diagonse.

It's fascinating to read about Delta projects, as they are mild to wild, and the base guns have a huge range of starting points. There are interesting choices to be made with barrel, at both muzzle and feed ramp. Heavy bull or bushing; integral or frame feed ramps? There are guns out there of all types, my plan is for a bushing integral ramp barrel.

I've read Mr. William's discussion of the plunger hole in the Delta, and I am very interested.

I've noticed a tendency to associate the Delta with a focus on shooting high power factor ammo, but that's not really my thought for my gun. I'll happily plan to shoot 210 pf loads through it, will consider some use of 215 power factor loads, and I'm not personally interested in 220+ power factor loads. I'm more interested in being able to not have to use over 18.5 pounds on my recoil spring. I would be happy to use a 20 pound, but happier with an 18.5 pound spring as my heaviest spring. I don't see how this would be too much different from a .45, if using appropriate brass and loads.

I'm really most interested in seeing how far along a power factor scale the Delta can operate, using multiple mainspring housings, firing pin stops, and recoil springs to go light as well as heavy.

Deltas are way cool, and Gun 2 is currently the apple of my firearms eye, but I'd like to think that I understand the value offered by the Wilson 10mms. :)

[GJM]

My S&W 1066 and 1076 continue to reliably gobble up 240 PF loads of hard cast and FMJ-FP design, with recoil that is not painful due to sharp edges or pounding, while displaying impressive accuracy.

[JDB]

Another vote for Tripp 10mm mags in Delta Elites.
Those things would allow feeding of my crappy lead reloads, that wouldn't reliably feed in my factory colt mags, or Wilson or CMC.

With good ammo, the factory Colt 8 rd mags did well though. My Delta Elite frankengun has always been kinda temperamental, but between ammo and monkeying with various spring weights and parts, don't know if I can really blame Colt for that. However, the most of the original colt parts crapped out: sights flew off, sear rounded to the point that it wouldn't hold half cock, ejector broke, ...that stupid recoil assembly, etc.

Overall, its worked better with a bunch of Wilson parts and a new Barsto barrel. Has about 15,000 rounds though it and is now semi-retired. Still use it as a woods gun, but don't shoot it regularly anymore.

Not super impressed by the quality from that early 90's vintage gun (bought new in 1994)...in addition to parts breakage, roll stamps were very uneven, wavy lines, very loose slide to frame fit.

[Jack Ryan]

I've got a late model CDE with two factory mags and 4 wilson mags from CDNN and they all feed flawlessly. Never a spring change or adjustment of any kind to the gun or mags and it shoots every factory amo I've tried and literally thousands of my own cast lead reloads.

I also use all of my piles of 45 gov. mags in it as well and they feed fine at least 90%. Sometimes there's an issue with the last round in the mag. I think a lot of people create their own problems because they think an office jockey can improve a 100 year old proven design put together by a factory and company that's been making it 100 years and selling everything they can make.