Why I like Glock pistols (when out moose hunting)

[GJM]

Here is the short story. Flew out on floats Sunday afternoon, to be in position for the start of moose season this morning. Bears also like our camping spot. This morning at first light, paddled a few miles back up a river and into an intricate series of sloughs. Saw a number of cow moose. Late morning saw a small bull. Got out of the boat, and up onto a bit of land, where I had a prone shot at 350 yards. One shot of .300 WM out of the Brockman pre-64 model 70. I thought the moose was on dry ground -- I was wrong. When we reached the bull, only one tip of his antler was out of the water. With effort, we were able to drag him close to shore, but his antlers and front legs hung up. We got to spend over three hours quartering a moose in knee to thigh deep water. Everything, including my Glock 29 in the ALS holster, was soaked and covered in water, blood and debris. Packed 600 pounds of meat back to the canoe through knee to thigh deep water. A Mystery Ranch Crew Cab is very helpful with 120 pound rear quarters. Loaded it into the boat, and paddled in the few miles back to the plane. Flew back to our cabin end of the day as a storm hit.

Been hosing down all our gear, including my wife's and my Glock 29!

[MDS]

That's a good day in any book! I'm going to guess you didn't just leave the Brockman in the sludge while you worked? ;) While I'm at it, I'll guess you didn't bring the Randall skinner, either?

[GJM]

Here are some photos:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/moose141_zps92154888.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/moose141_zps92154888.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/moose142_zps057fc70d.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/moose142_zps057fc70d.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/moose143_zpsdf3508f9.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/moose143_zpsdf3508f9.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/moose144_zps5ecee7a1.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/moose144_zps5ecee7a1.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/moose145_zps3f299afd.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/moose145_zps3f299afd.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/moose146_zps8ba9f285.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/moose146_zps8ba9f285.jpg.html)

[Paul D]

Beautiful!
Two quick questions:
1. Have you ever test fired that Glock with all that gunk on/in it to make sure it would've work if needed?
2. 600 lbs is a lot of meat. What is the cargo weight capacity of your plane?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[NETim]

What a life! If you're not shooting at Rogers, you're shooting at Mooses. :)

Nice shot of the bear prints.

[Matt O]

Here are some photos:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/moose142_zps057fc70d.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/moose142_zps057fc70d.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/moose143_zpsdf3508f9.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/moose143_zpsdf3508f9.jpg.html)

That looks so much more inviting than my office this morning. Congrats on filling the freezer up and thanks for sharing the motivational pictures. ;)

I'm looking forward to deer season starting this coming Saturday. Just made up a big pot of venison chili last night to clear up the last bit of room.

[JV_]

Great pics George!

[LSP972]

Here are some photos:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/moose141_zps92154888.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/moose141_zps92154888.jpg.html)



Is that a 182 or a 185? You got a Super Cub too?

.

[LSP972]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/moose143_zpsdf3508f9.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/moose143_zpsdf3508f9.jpg.html)



Looking at that gorgeous landscape, and then thinking about the ghetto-fabulous blight I just drove through to get to the lab... it makes me sad.

You're a fortunate man.

.

[dbateman]

Great pics and write up thanks for taking time to post them.

[Jeep]

Those are gorgeous photos. How cold was the water?

[GJM]

MDS, the rifles mostly stay in waterproof cases, strapped to the inflatable canoe, except when we are actively hunting. Too much water coming in and out of the boat, and other than Astro and ourselves, we try to strap stuff down, so we wouldn't lose it if we had a mishap. Without the boat, we aren't getting back to our float plane, so we have rescue gear including a sat phone, 406 PLB, fire starting stuff and food/water with us. When we are cutting up the animal, like this moose in the water, the rifles would be out of hand and away, so it is a pistols proposition for bears.


Beautiful!
Two quick questions:
1. Have you ever test fired that Glock with all that gunk on/in it to make sure it would've work if needed?
2. 600 lbs is a lot of meat. What is the cargo weight capacity of your plane?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

The gunk only stays on the pistol for a while, as I rinse it with water out of the stream. :) It should run, it is a Glock! Incidentally, both my wife and I are Gadget testers, and water/grit has no effect on the function of the Gadget, besides giving it a squirt of lube after we get back to the cabin.

Useful load on wheels is 1,500 pounds and 1,300 on floats. Light in gas and other gear, we were able to get out in one load. A bigger moose takes two loads.


Is that a 182 or a 185? You got a Super Cub too?

.

That is a 206 on floats. A Cub or Husky is great to spot from, but not so much fun sleeping in the tent on the beach with all those bears around.


Those are gorgeous photos. How cold was the water?

Colder in the lake and stream, as glaciers partly feed the inlet water to an upper lake, and warmer in back sloughs where the moose often hang out. In any event, it would be unhappy to fall in the water and be there long.

[Chuck Haggard]

Not nearly as cool or pretty of a location, but at work I have been in the water with my duty G17 enough times to lose track. Once spent the entire night pushing a John boat around a neighborhood evacuating elderly folks and small kids from waist-to-chest deep flood water.

It's nice having gear that you don't have to worry about.

[LittleLebowski]

This is deserving of a detailed blog write up.

[Jeep]

It's nice having gear that you don't have to worry about.

Chuck: You have just summed up in one sentence, perhaps the most single important consideration in deciding which tool (including which gun) to use.

[JHC]

Chuck: You have just summed up in one sentence, perhaps the most single important consideration in deciding which tool (including which gun) to use.

I've had guns soaked quite a few times between hunting in the rain, rafting, or just shooting in the rain. Getting an old school wood stocked lever action soaked requires another level of remedial PM than an AR. And Glocks can be easily torn down and dried or cleaned out. OTOH I've got a training designated G17 I've put up wet a few times just to see how it faired and I really couldn't see any difference as when I took the effort to dry and clean it.

[LSP972]

That is a 206 on floats. .

Ah. I thought the vertical stab was different, but attributed it to a float mod. Didn't think about the 206.

.

[JHC]

It's nice having gear that you don't have to worry about.

Those attributes of a pistol are very much more endearing to me than magnificent finish or precision fitted forged steel parts of legendary lineage. I was just reminded of that by the reference to another thread about the romance of some guns instilling passion to shoot them. Performance inspires my passion to shoot them.

[Jeep]

Those attributes of a pistol are very much more endearing to me than magnificent finish or precision fitted forged steel parts of legendary lineage. I was just reminded of that by the reference to another thread about the romance of some guns instilling passion to shoot them. Performance inspires my passion to shoot them.

+1. Maybe +1000.

[LSP552]

GJM,

Great pictures, thanks for sharing!

You are not helping me out deciding if a 4" Redhawk or a 10MM Glock replaces my .45 Blackhawk as my bring to Alaska gun.

Ken

[GJM]

GJM,

Great pictures, thanks for sharing!

You are not helping me out deciding if a 4" Redhawk or a 10MM Glock replaces my .45 Blackhawk as my bring to Alaska gun.

Ken

Both should work. If you bring the Redhawk, any of a number of hard cast loads should be fine. Right now, the Federal Trophy Bonded 180 factory load runs in our two 29's and the 1076 and 1066, and for now is our go to defensive 10mm load around animals.

I really like the Glock 29 for carry, as it is enough smaller that you can also comfortably wear it in town. The 20 is enough bigger, that my wife and I almost never carry them. Seems much bigger than a 17.

[LSP552]

Both should work. If you bring the Redhawk, any of a number of hard cast loads should be fine. Right now, the Federal Trophy Bonded 180 factory load runs in our two 29's and the 1076 and 1066, and for now is our go to defensive 10mm load around animals.

I really like the Glock 29 for carry, as it is enough smaller that you can also comfortably wear it in town. The 20 is enough bigger, that my wife and I almost never carry them. Seems much bigger than a 17.

Thanks for the update on the Federal load. The wife and I just got back Sun from a week up there. Alaska is one of our favorite places and we try to make it every couple of years. The rain alone argues for the Glock so I really need to fondle a 29. The one gun for town, fishing or day hikes appeals to me.

Thanks again!

Ken

[Chuck Haggard]

I've had guns soaked quite a few times between hunting in the rain, rafting, or just shooting in the rain. Getting an old school wood stocked lever action soaked requires another level of remedial PM than an AR. And Glocks can be easily torn down and dried or cleaned out. OTOH I've got a training designated G17 I've put up wet a few times just to see how it faired and I really couldn't see any difference as when I took the effort to dry and clean it.

Exactly. Even with stainless, back in the wheelgun days my gun would likely have been choked due to the amount of silt in the water that day. I had occasion to leave that gun as is and take my other duty gun to work after changing clothes. I got to shoot it two days later, ran all of the duty ammo out of those mags, detailed the gun and mags and reloaded with fresh ammo. All 58 rounds downrange with zero issues.

Having a Glock was also nice when my fanny pack ended up in about 20 feet of water off of Vieques island.

[Chuck Haggard]

George, you ever think about doing a grip chop on a 20? Like DB does when he chops G17s down to a G19 grip size.

[GJM]

George, you ever think about doing a grip chop on a 20? Like DB does when he chops G17s down to a G19 grip size.

I have considered it, but never proceeded. In my testing of the heavier loads, I haven't seen any better reliability in the 20 than the 29, and at the distances I would use it defensively, I don't think the sight radius would be significant. What I would really like is a single stack, 4.25-4.5 inch barrel 10mm Glock.

By the way the S&W 1076 and 1066 are running well, feeding everything but the Corbon and Buffalo Bore 200 penetrator loads that won't run in anything. I am thinking of getting a 4566 as a lower cost ammo trainer for the 1066. Got a 3913 too, as a smaller single stack, as neither the PPS nor Shield do it for me.

[LSP972]

Exactly. Even with stainless, back in the wheelgun days my gun would likely have been choked due to the amount of silt in the water that day.

Cooper made mention of this in his story on when he and some companions traversed the Rio Balsas in Mexico back in the 60s. They made several portages every day, immersing their sidearms each time. At the end of the day, during weapons maintenance in camp, the one revolver carried by Cooper's friend needed a complete detail strip to clear the river silt, etc., out of it… every day.

Good point; and one to seriously consider.

.

[LSP972]

The rain alone argues for the Glock so I really need to fondle a 29. The one gun for town, fishing or day hikes appeals to me.



If you decide to get one, I've got a couple boxes of "10mm Lite" ball (refugees from the EBRSO experiment) you can have for seed brass.

.

[LSP552]

If you decide to get one, I've got a couple boxes of "10mm Lite" ball (refugees from the EBRSO experiment) you can have for seed brass.

.

Thanks! Tax free weekend this week and Glock reps at Don's.......

Ken

[Chuck Haggard]

Cooper made mention of this in his story on when he and some companions traversed the Rio Balsas in Mexico back in the 60s. They made several portages every day, immersing their sidearms each time. At the end of the day, during weapons maintenance in camp, the one revolver carried by Cooper's friend needed a complete detail strip to clear the river silt, etc., out of it… every day.

Good point; and one to seriously consider.

.


I have also experienced this myself after wading with wheelguns. A piece that can be easily detailed out using a punch, and you can do it in field conditions without losing bits or having springs go flying, is a valuable thing to have IMHO

[LSP972]

Thanks! Tax free weekend this week and Glock reps at Don's.......

Ken

I'll be in Texas at that Givens class, with James.

As for Don's... I'd get there REAL early to avoid as many of the Cleeti as possible. You remember what it was like last time.

.

[LSP552]

So I went to the candy store this morning for a Glock 20. The 29 just won't work with my hands. None in stock so I walked out with a 42, just to keep from wasting a tax free day. Somehow that just strikes me funny.

Anyone know if .380 will penetrate a bear's skull? ;)

Ken

[Jeep]

So I went to the candy store this morning for a Glock 20. The 29 just won't work with my hands. None in stock so I walked out with a 42, just to keep from wasting a tax free day. Somehow that just strikes me funny.

Anyone know if .380 will penetrate a bear's skull? ;)

Ken

Probably--if you shoot it straight up the optic nerve!

[Chuck Haggard]

I know from at least one example that a .38special 158gr RNL standard velocity wiil drop a polar bear dead in it's tracks.

[HCM]

I know from at least one example that a .38special 158gr RNL standard velocity wiil drop a polar bear dead in it's tracks.

This one ?

POLAR BEARS KILL A CHILD AT PROSPECT PARK ZOO


http://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/20/nyregion/polar-bears-kill-a-child-at-prospect-park-zoo.html


The police said it took 20 blasts from 12-gauge shotguns firing rifled slugs and six bullets from a .38-caliber revolver to bring down the animals, which stood 8 feet tall and weighed more than 900 pounds.

I want to say by '87 they were using 158gr +P LSWC (solids)- Shooters were ESU so 14" Ithaca 37's for the slugs.

[JHC]

This one ?

POLAR BEARS KILL A CHILD AT PROSPECT PARK ZOO


http://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/20/nyregion/polar-bears-kill-a-child-at-prospect-park-zoo.html


I want to say by '87 they were using 158gr +P LSWC (solids)- Shooters were ESU so 14" Ithaca 37's for the slugs.

I think I have a vague memory of another where it was like one shot brained it. Or was that a tiger? [TIGERS! YOU'LL FIGHT TIGERS!]

[Chuck Haggard]

Nope, and I have never found the story via internets. Was a contact shot by a patrolman while the bear was chewing on a drunk that had climbed into the bear enclosure.

Frankly, I'm not sure shooting the bear was the right move.

[LSP552]

Nope, and I have never found the story via internets. Was a contact shot by a patrolman while the bear was chewing on a drunk that had climbed into the bear enclosure.

Frankly, I'm not sure shooting the bear was the right move.

NEVER in my life have I been drunk enough to think climbing in with a polar bear was a good idea! Natural selection will work if we let nature do its thing.

Ken

[Jeep]

NEVER in my life have I been drunk enough to think climbing in with a polar bear was a good idea! Natural selection will work if we let nature do its thing.

Ken

OK, so no polar bears. But who among us can truly say that we didn't get so drunk that we thought that climbing in with a black bear wasn't a good idea?

[Drang]

OK, so no polar bears. But who among us can truly say that we didn't get so drunk that we thought that climbing in with a black bear wasn't a good idea?

Unless there are some euphemisms at work here I am not familiar with, I can say that I've never been that drunk. There are more black bear attacks o the books than griz', after all.

Although, there was that night watching the bears at the dump near Lake Gogebic, when we all realized at the same time that there were cubs but no sow...

[JHC]

OK, so no polar bears. But who among us can truly say that we didn't get so drunk that we thought that climbing in with a black bear wasn't a good idea?

http://www.motivateusnot.com/demotivational-poster/2010/11/22/Ever_been_so_angry____-you_chased_a_bear_with_a_bat_

[Jeep]

http://www.motivateusnot.com/demotivational-poster/2010/11/22/Ever_been_so_angry____-you_chased_a_bear_with_a_bat_

Yikes. That looks like a brown bear!

[5pins]

In the mid 90’s there was story of a guy that stopped a brown bear with a 9MM while fishing in Alaska. One lucky shot to the head IIRC.

[5pins]

I wonder if the 1076 and 1066 would have fared and well?

[LSP972]

Was a contact shot by a patrolman while the bear was chewing on a drunk that had climbed into the bear enclosure.



IIRC, Remsberg told us it was an off-duty Transit Authority guy who happened to be carrying his issue 4" M-10.

I agree, he shouldn't have interrupted that particular natural selection process.

.

[GJM]

In the mid 90’s there was story of a guy that stopped a brown bear with a 9MM while fishing in Alaska. One lucky shot to the head IIRC.

Depends on the definition of "stop?" If "stop" means make bear go away, almost any handgun that makes noise and inflicts pain may stop the attack. If "stop" means kill the bear, then it seems like the cartridge needs to be capable of penetrating the brain, or a softer area that leads to death. A native guy told me that SOP in the villages is .223 ball out of a mini-14 to the throat of a bear.


I wonder if the 1076 and 1066 would have fared and well?

Don't know. Obviously they are stainless, relatively loose tolerance, and have mass on their side to help with reliability. The advantage of the Glock 29 is it is lightweight, there is a nice ALS holster option, and I don't worry about deep wading with it on.

[LSP972]

In the mid 90’s there was story of a guy that stopped a brown bear with a 9MM while fishing in Alaska. One lucky shot to the head IIRC.

Wasn't there a story here (and recently), about the fellow in Alaska who put one down (that was rampaging around his house) with a couple of rounds of 9mm… from a Hi-Point, no less?

.

[JHC]

A native guy told me that SOP in the villages is .223 ball out of a mini-14 to the throat of a bear.

.

Gunkid was right! :D

[5pins]

My timing was off, it was 2002. The story is no longer on the newspapers website but someone copied it to TFL.


I saw this story in another forum. Thought I'd share it here..

http://www.adn.com/alaska/story/1618619p-1736211c.html

Fisherman shoots, kills grizzly

BEAR! BEAR! Man plugs lunging bruin with 9 mm pistol on Russian River.


By Zaz Hollander
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: August 18, 2002)
A fisherman shot and killed a sow grizzly as she charged him in the early morning darkness Saturday on the banks of the Russian River.

The bear surprised Garen Brenner and two friends about 2:30 a.m. as they packed up their gear at one of the Kenai Peninsula's most popular fishing spots, said Larry Lewis, an Alaska Department of Fish and Game wildlife technician on the peninsula.

Brenner heard his friend yell "Bear! Bear!" and looked downriver to see the sow a few yards down the bank eyeing the friend. The bear lost interest in Brenner's friend after he backed into the water and threw his shotgun at her.

But then she turned, looked up at Brenner and lunged, said Lewis, who interviewed the three men Saturday.

Brenner fired at the center of the hulking shape closing to four or five feet away. He fired

twice. The sow, estimated at 400 to 450 pounds, went down. Then Brenner fired three more shots into her head.

He shot the bear with a 9 mm semiautomatic pistol. Lewis said such a low-caliber gun ordinarily doesn't pack enough punch to kill a bear. But Brenner loaded the pistol with full-metal-jacket bullets that penetrated to the bear's vital organs, he said.

"I think that's what saved his bacon," Lewis said.

The bear most likely was protecting her yearling cub, which waited well behind her above the steep bank, wildlife officials said.

After the shooting, the cub ran up and down the bank near its mother's body, bawling in distress. "It would stop and smell the bear, the sow, and then it would go into the water a ways, then it would come back," said Bill Shuster, a wildlife biologist with the U.S. Forest Service.

Local fishing guide Brandon Maes ran into the cub as he fished the Upper Kenai River near its confluence with the Russian. The cub charged, and Maes waded across the swift, chest-deep river to an island. The bear backed off but not before charging the guide's buddies in a boat nearby.

Soon after, Lewis tranquilized the cub, tagged and collared her and moved her to the south side of Skilak Lake.

The encounter was the latest of several close calls between people and bears along Southcentral rivers and streams. The Russian is thick with spawned-out sockeye that draw bears.

Authorities are looking into whether the dead bear is the same sow that attacked a Soldotna mother and son hiking Resurrection Pass Trail on Friday afternoon about three miles from Cooper Landing.

That bear, also accompanied by a cub, raked the mother's face with her claws and bit the son.

Nonetheless, people going into Gwin's store expressed dismay Saturday that Brenner killed the brown bear, said Linda Krack, a Washington state resident working there on Saturday.

"I'm not from here, but locals were pretty angry," Krack said. "Rumor had it, it wasn't necessary, but I sure don't know. I wasn't there. I didn't have it charging after me."

Lewis, who interviewed the fishermen on Saturday, dismissed such criticism. "That's absolute nonsense," he said. "He got a hearty handshake and a 'job well done' for saving himself and his buddies."

[texasaggie2005]

he backed into the water and threw his shotgun at her

What?

[JHC]

What?

Yeah, he was supposed to be the bear guard. In other accounts back in the day he threw the PISTOL GRIPPED pump shotgun at her because he feared he'd just tee her off worse and dove in and swam for it. How would you like that guy covering your six?

[Jeep]

Yeah, he was supposed to be the bear guard. In other accounts back in the day he threw the PISTOL GRIPPED pump shotgun at her because he feared he'd just tee her off worse and dove in and swam for it. How would you like that guy covering your six?

No one told him that he was supposed to SHOOT the shotgun! He thought it was a throwing weapon!

[Chance]

Depends on the definition of "stop?" If "stop" means make bear go away, almost any handgun that makes noise and inflicts pain may stop the attack. If "stop" means kill the bear, then it seems like the cartridge needs to be capable of penetrating the brain, or a softer area that leads to death.

That's kind of my question. I have zero experience with this stuff, but when we're talking about animals that can be, without exaggeration, almost twice my height, and more than half the weight of my car, what are the odds any particular round is going to "stop" a pissed off one of those animals? Something that size is effectively a tank with fur and teeth.

[Irelander]

GJM

What holster setup are you sporting on your hunt? Do you find a belt holster is better in that situation than a chest rig?

[GJM]

GJM

What holster setup are you sporting on your hunt? Do you find a belt holster is better in that situation than a chest rig?

With a big pack, chest or Safariland drop holster.

[Stephen]

What do you guys think of the new Sig for some of the environments described in this thread? I can't think of a gun that would be easier to clean out. You could even keep a spare FCU stashed somewhere.