View Full Version : HKparts.net - Bad news.
Shellback
09-01-2014, 11:57 AM
I know there's a lot of HK guys here and thought this might be of interest. DOJ press release. (http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2014/August/14-tax-892.html)
Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, August 25, 2014
Utah Businessman Indicted for Unlicensed Dealing in Firearms, Smuggling U.S. Goods and Filing False Tax Returns
Adam Michael Webber, of Salt Lake County, Utah, was indicted on Friday by a federal grand jury in the District of Utah, the Justice Department announced. The indictment, which was made public today, charges Webber with one count of dealing in firearms without a license, one count of smuggling goods from the United States and six counts of filing false tax returns...
A trial date has not been scheduled. If convicted, Webber faces a statutory maximum sentence of 33 years in prison and may be subject to fines.
Shellback
09-01-2014, 12:06 PM
This article (http://www.guns.com/2014/08/30/department-of-justice-charges-hk-parts-owner-for-selling-guns-without-a-license/) has a few more details for those interested. Vilos is his attorney.
“Not only does this indictment come from a vague and confusing law, it also arises from a vague agreement forced upon (Webber) under duress,” Vilos said...
“The ATF pressured him to never be an FFL,” Vilos said and explained that early on in his “part-time parts business,” Webber had legally purchased a machine gun. Some time later a buyer came a long, so Webber tried to sell it through a dealer licensed to transfer the gun, but unintentionally failed to follow the exact clerical steps which put him on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive’s radar. Agents confronted Webber about the transaction and threatened prosecution. Due to personal and financial issues at the time, he accepted the deal...
dookie1481
09-01-2014, 12:24 PM
Vilos sees this case as ATF agents going after easy arrests. “These agents will spend time on cases like this because there’s absolutely no danger to them,” he said.
Sounds about right.
RevolverRob
09-01-2014, 12:30 PM
Honestly - Without knowing the full details, even the DOJ press release sounds like a witch hunt.
Webber individually and through HK Parts and HK Parts Inc., sold firearms and firearms parts and accessories.
That sounds pretty damning, until you realize he could individually sell guns and parts, and sell only parts through his companies. :confused:
It also looks like the "false tax return" charges are basically them tacking them on, "You sold guns and didn't report the income properly, therefore have some extra charges!"
-Rob
Sensei
09-01-2014, 12:38 PM
This sounds like crap on face value. Expensive to defend crap for sure, but crap nonetheless. So, where can I now go for HK parts?
Better yet, let's hope that the ATF/DOJ doesn't decide to go after other specialty parts dealers like Top Gun Shooting Supply (my favorite Sig parts dealer). Soon we could find online parts very scarce and expensive.
While his prices are a rip off, he's been quite reliable source and I bought from him quite a bit. Too bad if this kills his business.
Shellback
09-01-2014, 03:06 PM
Soon we could find online parts very scarce and expensive.
The incremental erosion effort marches steadily forward.
Yes. The federal machine is being used systematically to apply pressure to advance the agenda with the only moral discriminator being the ability to do so.
The analogy of the frog in the pan of water slowly being heated to a boil comes to mind.
TCinVA
09-01-2014, 06:46 PM
The BATFE going after exceptionally low-hanging fruit and making a mountain out of a molehill wouldn't shock me in the slightest.
JodyH
09-01-2014, 06:50 PM
Anyone know the nature of the original NFA violation that started this whole thing?
TR675
09-01-2014, 09:20 PM
Anyone know the nature of the original NFA violation that started this whole thing?
No, but it's not like screwing up clerically is that hard to do.
For example, how many people know that when you're picking up a Form 4'd NFA Firearm as a trustee or corporate officer, you're supposed to include a notarized statement with the Form 4473 stating that you're acquiring the firearm for the entity? Actually you're supposed to do that any time you're buying any firearm on behalf of a company, etc. See Section A, Q. 1 of Form 4473. How many folks think to do that when they're picking up their new 6933?
TORCH2J
09-02-2014, 09:21 PM
The indictment makes for interesting reading http://mitchbarrie.net/files/webber_indictment.pdf Sorry, forgot to add the list of weapons seized. http://www.justice.gov/tax/2014/AMWe...Attachment.pdf
Shellback
09-02-2014, 09:47 PM
Torch - 2nd link isn't working. Thanks for posting the indictment.
Josh Runkle
09-02-2014, 10:02 PM
Well, Obama promised that he'd go after Internet gun sales. This looks like him pandering to his base that he's getting things done with his pen and phone.
TORCH2J
09-02-2014, 10:33 PM
Torch - 2nd link isn't working. Thanks for posting the indictment.
Apologies for that. This should work.
http://www.justice.gov/tax/2014/AMWebber_1AIndictmentAttachment.pdf
Sigfan26
09-02-2014, 10:52 PM
Apologies for that. This should work.
http://www.justice.gov/tax/2014/AMWebber_1AIndictmentAttachment.pdf
... That's a lot of guns for a non ffl.
Archimagirus
09-02-2014, 11:10 PM
I am not a lawyer, and I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn in forever, but the did the indictment indicate that the firearms listed in the second document were seized? If so, there is an Olympic sized swimming pool filled with the tears of those who love the P7. My assumption is that the guns would be destroyed rather that sold after the dispensation of the case. Is that correct?
Shellback
09-02-2014, 11:13 PM
Apologies for that. This should work.
http://www.justice.gov/tax/2014/AMWebber_1AIndictmentAttachment.pdf
Wow! Hopefully those don't end up in a smelter.
CCT125US
09-02-2014, 11:15 PM
I believe my count was 409. That is a healthy collection. Now I know where all the P7s went to.
Sigfan26
09-02-2014, 11:47 PM
... I think I know where he got his parts!
TORCH2J
09-03-2014, 03:08 PM
If so, there is an Olympic sized swimming pool filled with the tears of those who love the P7.
More like enough water to end a drought in Africa.
CompressionIgnition
09-03-2014, 11:19 PM
Parts 3 and 6 alone of the indictment do not form a good picture ...
SecondsCount
09-03-2014, 11:30 PM
If Mitch has the case then there is a good chance that HK Parts, while making some mistakes, will get out from under this.
May the best man win.
GardoneVT
09-03-2014, 11:44 PM
If Mitch has the case then there is a good chance that HK Parts, while making some mistakes, will get out from under this.
May the best man win.
Given that its an S corporation instead of an LLC or partnership, ownership of HK Parts can be transferred quickly in the event the owner goes to the big house-which looks pretty likely at this point. Even if he's cleared of the NFA charges, the tax fraud charges can still sink him. Even Al Capone couldn't beat that rap.
RevolverRob
09-04-2014, 11:35 AM
Given that its an S corporation instead of an LLC or partnership, ownership of HK Parts can be transferred quickly in the event the owner goes to the big house-which looks pretty likely at this point. Even if he's cleared of the NFA charges, the tax fraud charges can still sink him. Even Al Capone couldn't beat that rap.
And sad to say, from reading that indictment - something is fishy with those tax returns.
2007 1040 Sch C- $23,185.00
2008 1040 Sch C - $22,039.00
2009 1040 Sch C - $682.00 (Wow 2008 recession hit him HARD, how did he not go bankrupt?)
2009 S Corp - $49,742
2010 1040 Sch C - $2,638.00 + $652.00
2010 S Corp - $87,749
___
I'm not tax expert, but on first pass things aren't adding up. It looks like he is reporting one set of numbers on the 1040 and one set on the S Corp form, that I'm guessing are for the two different businesses he was (is) running. Which really makes you go..."Wait so one business barely makes a profit and the other makes 90k a year?!" Something isn't right here. Were most assets transferred to the S Corp? Is that why the sudden drop in profit for the business filed under 1040? Something odd is definitely going on.
-Rob
joshs
09-04-2014, 12:07 PM
Where is the discrepancy? It looks like he transferred most of the assets to the S Corp, but still retained some as a sole proprietor, so he reported them on the 1040. Also, the indictment doesn't even allege that the discrepancy between the individual and corporate tax forms is a problem, only that gross receipts are underreported everywhere. I'd also note that the indictment contains almost no facts supporting the allegations. This is especially true as the the "engaging in the business" and export violation counts.
GardoneVT
09-04-2014, 12:52 PM
Where is the discrepancy? It looks like he transferred most of the assets to the S Corp, but still retained some as a sole proprietor, so he reported them on the 1040. Also, the indictment doesn't even allege that the discrepancy between the individual and corporate tax forms is a problem, only that gross receipts are underreported everywhere. I'd also note that the indictment contains almost no facts supporting the allegations. This is especially true as the the "engaging in the business" and export violation counts.
Two questions need to be settled on that subject.
One:what was the agreement he signed in 2007 with the government stating he would not pursue an FFL or transact business related to firearms? If he signed a plea deal on pre-2007 charges which specified a lifetime ban from the gun business, it would explain why he'd play games with his tax returns: fearing honest reporting of his income would lead to being shut down, he decides to bury the profits to hide his re-entry into a business he committed to leaving.
Two; given that he's the only shareholder of the S corporation according to the indictment, he'd still have to report the profits from the corporation . The fact that its an S corporation omits some of the onerous regulations , but he'd still have an obligation to account for his profits truthfully.
joshs
09-04-2014, 02:42 PM
Two questions need to be settled on that subject.
One:what was the agreement he signed in 2007 with the government stating he would not pursue an FFL or transact business related to firearms? If he signed a plea deal on pre-2007 charges which specified a lifetime ban from the gun business, it would explain why he'd play games with his tax returns: fearing honest reporting of his income would lead to being shut down, he decides to bury the profits to hide his re-entry into a business he committed to leaving.
Right, but they have presented no evidence that he "engaged in the business" of dealing in firearms. It's a term of art. There are specific elements they need to prove, and there are no facts in the indictment showing that he sold firearms for livelihood and profit.
Two; given that he's the only shareholder of the S corporation according to the indictment, he'd still have to report the profits from the corporation . The fact that its an S corporation omits some of the onerous regulations , but he'd still have an obligation to account for his profits truthfully.
Yes, he would have to report the profits as income, but that isn't what they alleged that he failed to do. They're only claiming that he underreported his gross receipts.
JTPHD
09-25-2016, 09:38 AM
Update: Webber convicted.
http://www.recoilweb.com/adam-webber-of-hk-parts-convicted-96831.html
RevolverRob
09-25-2016, 12:30 PM
Hopefully, he transferred ownership of HK Parts and its remaining assets to a responsible 3rd party before his trial began.
It seemed pretty clear they had a solid case against him for filing false tax returns. The dealing with firearms without a license conviction is troubling. Some people just can't keep their noses clean...
hufnagel
09-25-2016, 03:05 PM
holy shit! 210 P7's!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
for the love of god please don't let the ATF destroy them!
CCT125US
09-25-2016, 05:19 PM
holy shit! 210 P7's!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
for the love of god please don't let the ATF destroy them!
And now we know what those high prices helped to fund.
RevolverRob
09-25-2016, 05:29 PM
holy shit! 210 P7's!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
for the love of god please don't let the ATF destroy them!
I think it depends on if those guns are actual evidence in the case of the selling firearms without a license or not. If they aren't...then they might be able to get them back. Or...the IRS might be auctioning off a ton of P7s in the near future as part of assets seized for taxes and penalties...
LSP972
09-25-2016, 05:29 PM
Indeed (now we know what those high prices were paying for).
There has been a lot of "poor Adam" comments ever since this began. Personally, I think he got what he deserved. As YVK stated, his prices were/are a FELONIOUS rip-off. And anyone wonder why HE had the parts, when HK/USA didn't???
I always did... until I found out who his brother/relative/whatever was.
Whatever...
.
RevolverRob
09-25-2016, 05:32 PM
I
I always did... until I found out who his brother/relative/whatever was.
Whatever...
.
Confused by this one LSP. Did he have a relative working for HK or HK-USA that was giving him the inside track on parts?
Confused by this one LSP. Did he have a relative working for HK or HK-USA that was giving him the inside track on parts?
My understanding is Adam Weber's brother is Wayne Weber, president of HK- USA. At least according to some on HK-Pro. I believe hat is what LSP is referring to.
RevolverRob
09-25-2016, 05:54 PM
My understanding is Adam Weber's brother is Wayne Weber, president of HK- USA.
That seems...unlikely. Given that it is Adam Webber not Weber. And Adam Webber looks like this:
10805
And Wayne Weber, President of HK-USA looks like this (the shorter gentleman on the left):
10806
I mean...it's possible they are related...but I somehow think the media would have definitely picked up on this one. And also...I mean...albinism is a potentially recessive trait for black families...but it's exceedingly rare...
I don't care who you are, that's funny.
That seems...unlikely. Given that it is Adam Webber not Weber. And Adam Webber looks like this:
10805
And Wayne Weber, President of HK-USA looks like this (the shorter gentleman on the left):
10806
I mean...it's possible they are related...but I somehow think the media would have definitely picked up on this one. And also...I mean...albinism is a potentially recessive trait for black families...but it's exceedingly rare...
Look like two Mormon brothers to me.
That seems...unlikely. Given that it is Adam Webber not Weber. And Adam Webber looks like this:
10805
And Wayne Weber, President of HK-USA looks like this (the shorter gentleman on the left):
10806
I mean...it's possible they are related...but I somehow think the media would have definitely picked up on this one. And also...I mean...albinism is a potentially recessive trait for black families...but it's exceedingly rare...
As Junior said on the Sopranos "the heart wants what the heart wants".......
hufnagel
09-25-2016, 08:18 PM
RR: you owe me a keyboard. toothpaste doesn't mix well with electronics. (yes, I browse PF while brushin' my teefs. all tree of 'em.)
OlongJohnson
12-09-2017, 10:56 AM
"Utah businessman convicted of tax fraud, selling firearms without a license is sentenced to four years in federal prison"
http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/12/07/utah-businessman-convicted-of-selling-firearms-without-a-license-is-sentenced-to-four-years/
Sounds like a real winner whose compulsive lying finally caught up to him.
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