H&K USP Compact 9mm - - Your Thoughts on It ?

[SamAdams]

Hello everyone - on another thread I asked, and several folks kindly replied, for your suggestions on 9mm pistols for a couple of my brothers-in-law. Their budgets are around $ 550 each before sales tax.

This thread is for me. Specifically, I'm a long time 45ACP shooter who (finally) sees the advantages of going with a 9mm pistol today. I carried full-sized 1911s for many years. I then went with a USP 45 Compact V1 with safety and decocker. The USP45c is the pistol I most often conceal carry. I've had it for many years and shoot it better than any other pistol I own. My criteria includes absolute reliability, durability, and accuracy - when used for concealed carry.

What do you think of the USP Compact V1 in 9mm ? The guns have been around for about 20 years. Too 'old school' ? Why, or why wouldn't you buy one ? I don't think I see them mentioned very often in the forum. I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Thank you

[Mitch]

Do you have the same budget to work with as the other thread? I like USPs, but if I were getting an hk I can't think of a reason to get a usp instead of a p30.

[LSP972]

The USPc 9mm will make an excellent "companion piece" to your .45. The only difference between the two, aside from caliber and assuming that both are V1s, is that the .45 is a bit longer overall, due to the slightly longer barrel and slightly greater length of the grip frame (to accommodate the longer .45 ACP cartridge). Height and width are identical; the 9mm will fit in your .45 holsters too.

Define "old school". To me, that's one of those terms bandied about loosely, used to describe either something archaic and no longer useful, or something archaic and still superb. The USP Compacts are not exactly archaic, but they damn sure are useful. I find the small-grip USPc (9mm, .40, .357 Sig) to be my favorite of all the various HK pistols I've owned and/or shot. The .45 USPc is just a tad too big for my small hand, which is why I went to the HK45C when it became available. But my USPc .40 is always close by, and if I decided to abandon the .45 cartridge I would get another USPc in 9mm. All my HKs have the LEM set-up, but that is simply a matter of preference.

I also have a P2000, which is pretty much the same as the HK45C except for caliber and trigger reset (and the oddly located decocker on the DA/SA examples; no drama here with the LEM version). For some reason, the P-series guns have a longer reset than the USP/HK45 guns.

To reiterate, if I was going with 9mm or .40 as my "carry caliber", it would be in a USPc. The tapered slides of the P2000, P30, and HK45C do allow for a slightly thinner holster, but I've carried all of the guns mentioned in this post at one time or another, in a kydex IWB holster, and the slightly fatter holster necessitated by the non-tapered USPc slide really doesn't make much- if any- of a noticeable difference.

Grab yourself a 9mm USPc and enjoy.

One caveat; if you buy used, be sure you get a date code of AE or later. That way, you'll be sure it has the improved firing pin. Earlier ones were known to break after dry-firing.

BTW… what do you consider the advantages of "going with 9mm" over .45, besides the obvious one… less $$$… ?

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[SamAdams]

Thanks guys for your comments. @125 mph - no the budget for this gun would be the 'normal' USP prices, which means above $1000. I would probably buy new. Why do you prefer the P30, if you don't mind my asking ?

@LSP972 - by 'old school' I was referring to the fact that I see other H&K 9mm pistols mentioned much more often on the forum than the USPc. I just wondered if there was something 'outdated' about the USPc, versus newer model H&K pistols. I held an HK45C and it felt very nice, but I still prefer the USP45c. Its probably because I am used to it after shooting one for so many years.

The primary advantage with 9mm is greater ease of shooting accurately and substantial reduction in practice ammo costs. Given todays bullet designs, its been shown that all the service chamberings of 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45ACP are very close/equivalent when using appropriate self defense hollow point ammunition.

[EricM]

I think the USPc and P-series guns each have advantages and disadvantages, but the bottom line is if you're happy with your USP45c -- not missing any of the changes brought by the P-series/HK45c -- I can't imagine any reason the 9mm version will disappoint you. IMHO the USPc is the kind of "old school" I can appreciate -- newer HKs have brought ergonomic and cosmetic changes (YMMV on whether they are improvements), but I'm not aware of any reason the newer guns would run better. I've owned several 9mm USP Compacts, all were trouble free, still have one that my wife staked a claim on. If I could somehow magically build my ideal HK handgun using design elements of other HK models, it would incorporate some elements from the USPc, some from the P2000, and some from the VP9. Until then, even if you can't quite have it all, you can't really go wrong.

[GJM]

Most has been covered in LSP's post.

I prefer the USP C .45 to all my other USP/P30/HK45/P2000 pistols. I like the texture on the USP C, how accurately they shoot, and the shape of the grip. The USP C 9mm (send .40) seems to be getting a tad short in the barrel, but if my USP C .40 is representative, is built like a tank, accurate and reliable. I have LEM. Would be interested in how the USP C 9 is with the match trigger, which I believe goes in with mod?

[Palmguy]

If you're ever considering using a mounted light, that's (at best) more complicated on the USP series. I personally prefer the grip shape/texture of the newer guns (P2000 and up), but there isn't anything wrong with the USPs.

[YVK]

In my personal experience, USP series have better triggers while P series have better ergos. I could be happy with either one.

[Hooper]

I prefer my dad's USPc 9 to my P30 9, well, once the mag release on the USPc was upgraded with that from the larger HK45. Both are great pistols.

[LSP972]

If you're ever considering using a mounted light, that's (at best) more complicated on the USP series.

If by "complicated" you mean more effort needed than simply installing a light, then, yes. Some folks use an accessory rail, which then "complicates" holstering when the light is not on the pistol.

But with just a bit of Dremel work, on both the gun and a TLR-1, its not really complicated at all. Since I cannot post any photos here, I'll have to settle for a written description... but basically, you relieve a minute area on the pistol, and remove some material from a TLR-1, and it goes on just as quickly and neatly as an un-altered one would on as Glock, etc.

Some moan and groan about destroying the resale value of the gun, etc., etc. The amount of polymer removed is barely noticeable... IF you are looking for it. Granted, the TLR-1 needs to be hacked up pretty good, but they're cheap these days.

As always, there is a caveat. I cannot predict how well this will hold up to extended shooting, as the modified polymer HK rail is taking the brunt of the linear recoil impetus of the TLR-1. But for occasional use, it works like a champ.

I recall seeing, a few years back, something about StreamLight or InSight Technologies making a TLR-1 or M3 to fit the proprietary HK rail. Since I don't routinely utilize the USPc .40 I so modified, I never followed up on it. Might be something to look into.

Also, you hear complaints about the HK45C rail being too short for 'standard' WMLs. It is, indeed. But again, just a bit of effort on modifying a TLR-1 can fix that. However, you need an older TLR-1; the one that has a space for the lug insert on BOTH sides of the tightening bolt. Later examples have that rear space not milled out, undoubtedly a manufacturing expedient but a game-foiler nonetheless. The concern re long-term durability is not present here, as the lug insert is taking the recoil load, as designed.

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[HCM]

LSP is spot on - I carried an HK USPC40 LEM as my duty and primary off duty gun for 8 years - they are great guns. Re the firing pin issue, I broke one on mine but the newer style firing pin can be installed in the older guns. I only gave it up because it went home with a co- worker after he was involved in an OIS and we had no spare HKs remaining to issue him.

The USPC trigger is better than the P series and the magazines are built like tanks. Bill Riehl has stated magazines are the heart of an Semi auto pistol and HK produced a winner with the USPC mags. They are still used in the P2000 and HK45c and the P30/VP9 mags and the HK45 mags are just longer versions of the USPC mags.

The only downsides to the USPC are weapon mounted light options limited (TLR-3) and the grip is what it is - if you need a bigger or smaller grip or want better light optiond get a P2000.

[ffhounddog]

I really like the USPc. LEM is my prefered configuration and the USP series probally hAs the best LEM out of all models currently out there. I prefer the USPc in 9 and the P2000 in 40. I did not like the USPc in 40. I am just a little messed up I guess.

On lights you can get the tlr-3 set up for a USP compact. I like my standard tlr-3 on my P2000. I still plan on getting one for the USPc in the future.

[EricM]

That's interesting about the modifications to fit certain lights directly to the USPc rail, hadn't heard of that before. Another option is Laser Devices makes a light that attaches directly to the HK rail, I've got one and I actually prefer its switch design over other WML's (ambi paddles that pivot on a horizontal axis perpendicular to the barrel, down for momentary, up for constant). If anyone's looking for a good deal on a like-new Surefire MR08 adapter, shoot me a PM.

[Palmguy]

If by "complicated" you mean more effort needed than simply installing a light, then, yes. Some folks use an accessory rail, which then "complicates" holstering when the light is not on the pistol.

But with just a bit of Dremel work, on both the gun and a TLR-1, its not really complicated at all. Since I cannot post any photos here, I'll have to settle for a written description... but basically, you relieve a minute area on the pistol, and remove some material from a TLR-1, and it goes on just as quickly and neatly as an un-altered one would on as Glock, etc.

Some moan and groan about destroying the resale value of the gun, etc., etc. The amount of polymer removed is barely noticeable... IF you are looking for it. Granted, the TLR-1 needs to be hacked up pretty good, but they're cheap these days.

As always, there is a caveat. I cannot predict how well this will hold up to extended shooting, as the modified polymer HK rail is taking the brunt of the linear recoil impetus of the TLR-1. But for occasional use, it works like a champ.

I recall seeing, a few years back, something about StreamLight or InSight Technologies making a TLR-1 or M3 to fit the proprietary HK rail. Since I don't routinely utilize the USPc .40 I so modified, I never followed up on it. Might be something to look into.

Also, you hear complaints about the HK45C rail being too short for 'standard' WMLs. It is, indeed. But again, just a bit of effort on modifying a TLR-1 can fix that. However, you need an older TLR-1; the one that has a space for the lug insert on BOTH sides of the tightening bolt. Later examples have that rear space not milled out, undoubtedly a manufacturing expedient but a game-foiler nonetheless. The concern re long-term durability is not present here, as the lug insert is taking the recoil load, as designed.

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All of that. Yes. Some people don't want to modify the frame of a handgun. It's worth having knowledge beforehand if one was previously unaware. It is a difference between the USPc and the P2000/newer guns, which is why I mentioned it.

[Paxamus]

I have a USPc in 45 that I carries and then made the switch to the USPc in 9 with a light LEM and I love it! My only problem is the USPc 9 grip is a tad small, but I can't say enough good about them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LSP972]

It's worth having knowledge beforehand if one was previously unaware. It is a difference between the USPc and the P2000/newer guns, which is why I mentioned it.

Yup.

Re the TLR-3; does StreamLight make it for the USP rail? I tried one with a "normal" rail attachmant set-up on the HK45C; it fits, but the light is not as bright/has less spill than a TLR-1, and it uses a hard-to-find/oddball battery.

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[Clusterfrack]

Yes, they do. Here's a link (http://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-69222-Weapon-Mounted-Tactical/dp/B0039CX530). I have a TLR-4 on a USP/c .40 and I agree--the light is a little weak. I prefer the TLR-1 HL or Surefires.


Yup.

Re the TLR-3; does StreamLight make it for the USP rail? I tried one with a "normal" rail attachmant set-up on the HK45C; it fits, but the light is not as bright/has less spill than a TLR-1, and it uses a hard-to-find/oddball battery.

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[LSP972]

Indeed. Thank you, sir.

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[Suvorov]

I'll just echo others here and endorse the USPc. I have been carrying a USP40c LEM at work for 6 years now and it has proven to be a reliable and easy to live with pistol. If I had my choice it would be in 9mm and DA/SA but I don't.

I have a TLR3 for it which seems to do a good enough job, but I really haven't shot it much with the light. I'll also agree that the TLR3 does not have as good of output as my TLR1Ss do.

Seems like the perfect companion to your USP45c.

[ADKilla]

In my personal experience, USP series have better triggers while P series have better ergos. I could be happy with either one.

I own a P30 9mm V4 LEM (TGS), a P2000sk V4 LEM, and a newly purchased USPc V7. The above statement nails the differences perfectly. For me, trigger was more important than ergos, but USPc fits my large hand nicely.

[GJM]

What is the thinking on the HK45C extended magazine lever addition to the USP C pistols -- seems like it makes dropping the mag easier, but any issues with inadvertent release of the magazine?

[LSP972]

What is the thinking on the HK45C extended magazine lever addition to the USP C pistols -- seems like it makes dropping the mag easier, but any issues with inadvertent release of the magazine?

None here. I've had the extended lever on my USPc and P2000 pistols since shortly after getting my first HK45C over three years ago. Several thousand cumulative rounds later, no issues whatsoever.

It makes a tremendous difference (for the better), as far as I'm concerned.

And its a simple, no-brainer/drop-in installation.

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[Suvorov]

What is the thinking on the HK45C extended magazine lever addition to the USP C pistols -- seems like it makes dropping the mag easier, but any issues with inadvertent release of the magazine?

I did it on my USP45c and prefer it greatly to stock. I don't have thousands of rounds through it, but it has never come close to being an issue for me.

[EricM]

I tried the HK45C mag release on a USPc 9mm and I was not confident that it engaged the mag as fully. In my case, it was clear that the tab that grabs the mag did not protrude as far with the HK45C part...I could also tell that when you inserted a mag, the travel of the HK45C mag release was less than the original part (the amount of rotation as the mag slid by, and then rotation back as the notch in the mag was engaged by the tab). Maybe my gun or mag release was an anomaly, maybe the difference is simply not significant, perhaps any perceived difference could be addressed with a little fitting...I don't know, just sharing what I observed. I've never heard of anyone having any problems after installing the HK45C mag release but I personally decided to pass on it.

Now putting the HK45C control lever on a USPc -- that is a wonderful upgrade in my opinion. I found it tremendously more comfortable and easier to operate.

[LSP972]

I tried the HK45C mag release on a USPc 9mm and I was not confident that it engaged the mag as fully.


Now putting the HK45C control lever on a USPc -- that is a wonderful upgrade in my opinion. I found it tremendously more comfortable and easier to operate.

Uhhh… so which is it? You think its a good idea, or a bad idea???

.

[Default.mp3]

I tried the HK45C mag release on a USPc 9mm and I was not confident that it engaged the mag as fully.

Now putting the HK45C control lever on a USPc -- that is a wonderful upgrade in my opinion. I found it tremendously more comfortable and easier to operate.
Uhhh… so which is it? You think its a good idea, or a bad idea???


I believe what e0603 meant by "control lever" is the safety/decocking lever.

[SamAdams]

Its funny how familiarity makes all the difference. When I first got my USP45c there were aspects about it that I found awkward - mag release, and a grip that feels a bit 'blocky'. I always liked the safety/decocker set up.
After years of carrying it and shooting it, the gun feels natural to me. I like the grip, and actually a fullsize USP45 is doable. (I have XL size hands.) The USPc mag release is my favorite. A guy just has to think in terms of the release 'pivoting' rather than being pressed. Or imagine an arrow pointing down at the grip at a 45 degree angle when activating the mag release.

[EricM]

I believe what e0603 meant by "control lever" is the safety/decocking lever.

That's right. Here's a quick comparison pic of V4 levers from my parts bin...from top left, USP, USPc, and HK45:

http://icedesigns.com/echo0603/pf/082814/cl.jpg

[LSP972]

I believe what e0603 meant by "control lever" is the safety/decocking lever.

Ah. Okay, that never occurred to me, being a LEM guy & all...:o

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