Corey & Erika, outed again?

[rob_s]

Don't know how to link directly to it, but here's the page with the outing.

https://www.facebook.com/1MOASolutions

ETA:
This may link directly (https://www.facebook.com/1MOASolutions/photos/a.246850898694630.60237.243619059017814/776434315736283/?type=1&theater)

[Suvorov]

Curious about the background story here?

Stollen Valor inside the firearms training community?

That's got to take a lot of stupid.

[Sadmin]

Read this on SH as well. What a cheese-D. What sucks is these dudes feel the need to market themselves as ex-mil because the general shooting populous looks for ex-mil instructors as opposed to just someone who can teach shooting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[orionz06]

Has anyone confirmed if Erika is on the market?

[rob_s]

it looks like they took their website down?

https://www.rangetimets.com/

isn't working for me.

What I went there to see was, they had two other instructor listed, both with more truthful sounding mil experience, which makes me wonder what those guys think of all this.

their FB does appear to be up.
https://www.facebook.com/cory07ink

[Pup town]

That's got to take a lot of stupid.

You'd think, but he got away with it for a long time - and I'm not even confident that this revelation (the AWOL charge, if true) will even shut him down. I think he would have continued to get away with it if not for a NIMBY fight over his range.

I think that the AWOL accusations only saw the light of day because some of his neighbors want to use zoning laws to shut his range down. Someone in his hometown leaked that he had been pick up after going AWOL from Reception. If not for a zoning squabble, we wouldn't have found out about going AWOL.

He had been exposed before about lying about his military service (but apparently instead of coming clean about going AWOL he claimed he was medically discharged due to a preexisting med condition.)

Sadly, plenty in the shooting community were willing to overlook him lying about his service. Find the recent thread on AR15.com Some said there "I don't care what he did or didn't do in the military. If he can teach me to shoot I'll train with him." Or "He's a strong advocate of the Second Amendment, therefore I shall defend him." (Cause the Supreme Court is really listening to Corey when they make their rulings.:rolleyes:)

I said it in the Instructor Zero thread -- There are American instructors working for government agencies that have been busted lying about credentials and background, and others that have yet to be busted. (Which means I have zero faith that Instructor Zero's resume is accurate. It's too hard for us to verify what he did in Italy. I mean, Corey has been internet famous for three or four years, is an American, and his true story is just now coming out. Do you think we really know who Zero is?)

[oldtexan]

Don't know how to link directly to it, but here's the page with the outing.

https://www.facebook.com/1MOASolutions

ETA:
This may link directly (https://www.facebook.com/1MOASolutions/photos/a.246850898694630.60237.243619059017814/776434315736283/?type=1&theater)

Excuse my ignorance, but who are these people? I've never heard of Cory Jackson, or Erika Maxwell, or their company, or any of the instructors listed on the bio page on their site.

[Jay Cunningham]

Excuse my ignorance, but who are these people? I've never heard of Cory Jackson, or Erika, or their company, or any of the instructors listed on the bio page on their site.

Clearly you don't spend enough time on The Internet.

[Suvorov]

Clearly you don't spend enough time on The Internet.

Or simply spend 99% of our gun surfing time at places like Pistol Training Forum with a low noise to signal ratio.

I'm confused as well?

[rob_s]

Oh good lord, here we go...

Corey & Erika have had a pretty popular youtube channel, fueled mostly by the attractiveness and short-short-cladded-ness of the female half, which they in turn have attempted to grow into a fulltime gig training others. Corey sports the standard "operator" appearance of beard, full sleeve tattoos, and plate carrier most of the time, as well as the often-nebulous military experience. I believe he ran the channel, largely in obscurity, prior to the appearance of Erika, after which their popularity went up drastically.

https://www.youtube.com/user/cory07ink

If some of you people were leading nearly the internet-free-awesome lives you claim to, you wouldn't feel the need to go around reminding everyone else of it all the time. If you actually don't know, or don't care, who the players are or the issue at hand, there really isn't much reason to post in the thread, is there?

[Alpha Sierra]

it looks like they took their website down?

https://www.rangetimets.com/

isn't working for me.

What I went there to see was, they had two other instructor listed, both with more truthful sounding mil experience, which makes me wonder what those guys think of all this.

their FB does appear to be up.
https://www.facebook.com/cory07ink
This works as of a minute ago: http://rangetimets.com/

[orionz06]

This works as of a minute ago: http://rangetimets.com/

I can't check it on my flip phone.

[Suvorov]

If some of you people were leading nearly the internet-free-awesome lives you claim to, you wouldn't feel the need to go around reminding everyone else of it all the time. If you actually don't know, or don't care, who the players are or the issue at hand, there really isn't much reason to post in the thread, is there?

I thank you for your time in answering the question. Honestly can't say I recall hearing of this duo. Hot chicks are pretty common on the old net as well so even she doesn't ring a bell. I'm not really sure what the snark was for but whatever floats your boat.

[rsa-otc]

This duo came across my Youtube radar when I was surfing for stuff from the likes of Lamb, Vickers & Hackenthorn. Frankly I found they didn't offer me anything, so I only drop in when they post things from their guests like Avery, Costa etc.

Any interest in training with them would have quickly vanished when I saw that long line of targets and videos of classes where every target has a student. The impression I got is that you likely wouldn't get the appropriate individual attention you would expect because of the large class size. Hopefully they have the appropriate number of SO's.

[Dagga Boy]

"I don't care if it matters to you.

We police up our own and we don't care what you think.

Shut up, sit in the corner, and let the knuckle draggers sort it out."



That right there is the best thing in the entire FB post that was linked. I don't know who these people are, nor care. These often devolve into witch hunts often led by a bunch of other folks who never served in the military. Leave this stuff to those whose Valor was actually stolen. Otherwise it is simply more un-scrupulous folks in the firearms training (know Entertraining) world.......which has become par for the course. Thankfully, very few folks fantasize about being a knuckle dragging street cop, so the poser factor for me is far less to worry about. This is one area where I really do feel empathy for the SEAL's, "Snipers", and other special ops folks.

[oldtexan]

Oh good lord, here we go...

Corey & Erika have had a pretty popular youtube channel, fueled mostly by the attractiveness and short-short-cladded-ness of the female half, which they in turn have attempted to grow into a fulltime gig training others. Corey sports the standard "operator" appearance of beard, full sleeve tattoos, and plate carrier most of the time, as well as the often-nebulous military experience. I believe he ran the channel, largely in obscurity, prior to the appearance of Erika, after which their popularity went up drastically.

https://www.youtube.com/user/cory07ink

If some of you people were leading nearly the internet-free-awesome lives you claim to, you wouldn't feel the need to go around reminding everyone else of it all the time. If you actually don't know, or don't care, who the players are or the issue at hand, there really isn't much reason to post in the thread, is there?

Rob, thanks for answering my question. If I came off as snarky, dismissive, or condescending, I apologize. I genuinely had never heard of these people and asked the question because I thought that I might learn something useful from the answer. I did.

As a retired soldier, I'm always interested in "stolen valor" stories.

[LittleLebowski]

Rob, thanks for answering my question. If I came off as snarky, dismissive, or condescending, I apologize. I genuinely had never heard of these people and asked the question because I thought that I might learn something useful from the answer. I did.


Well said and in a gentlemanly manner.

[GardoneVT]

It doesn't surprise me.

Watch the old Magpul Dynamics videos with Travis Haley and Chris Costa.

Then watch "Cory and Erica at Range Time" via YouTube. You'll see an eerie similarity in the "training" content, down to the exact lines almost. Were I a member of the Magpul stuff I'd be considering copyright litigation.

[orionz06]

Maybe Instructor Zero and Erika will make a video?

[NEPAKevin]

I thought they were the ones that did line drills which resembled an electric slide with handguns? But maybe I am thinking of the wrong couple. Its hard to keep track when you get old and the brain approaches its saturation point.

[NETim]

'Cause it's Friday.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yf0R7n02owM

[Alpha Sierra]

That's not operator

This is operator

http://youtu.be/PKMhQbeh1Ms

[PPGMD]

Well I browsed their channel for the first time in a year. He is using a lot less preview pictures with Ericka in her signature short shorts, and it is hurting his view count.

View counts by video preview picture
Normal video view count 20k ish
Video of Ericka from the side 80k +
Video with Ericka in her short shorts 200k +

But I can see where Cory is did what he did, even at the local level to break out of the "average NRA certified instructor" mold you really need to have some military or SWAT background. Rightly or wrongly people believe that military or SWAT experience makes them more qualified to teach self defense. Though some USPSA GMs are able to do it, but it typically takes some wins to brag about. Anyways it is still wrong, just that I see why he did it.

[LittleLebowski]

But I can see where Cory is did what he did, even at the local level to break out of the "average NRA certified instructor" mold you really need to have some military or SWAT background.

I'm quite fine with civilian only instructors :D

http://pistol-training.com

[Stephen]

It seems like there's a strong positive correlation between a instructor's prominence on YouTube and his douche factor.

[TCinVA]

I'm starting to think I should shave off my beard.

[RevolverRob]

I gotta admit, I had no idea who the OP was talking about either and after perusing the Youtube channel, I'm pretty much content to let those with a dog in the fight, fight, and ignore the rest.

I guess I'm still a little too autodidactical, when it comes to training. When it comes to basic techniques, fundamentals, and skills I'm able to do most of those easily. I only pay for advanced classes these days. I want four things from an instructor, someone who can help me master fundamentals, teach me advanced techniques, provide mindset training, and has the experience to bring it all together. It seems a real waste to dump a lot of money on mediocre instructors with questionable credentials. Don't get me wrong, you do not have to be former LAPD SWAT or .MIL SF to get my training dollars. But you do have to have a quality reputation for well established curricula that advances both the skillset and mindset. Let me put it another way - Why do I want to train with the Junior Ranger Danger Short-Shorts Duo, instead of a set of folks who have dealt with complex shooting problems and learned unique ways to solve them? Right.

-Rob

[orionz06]

Well I browsed their channel for the first time in a year. He is using a lot less preview pictures with Ericka in her signature short shorts, and it is hurting his view count.

View counts by video preview picture
Normal video view count 20k ish
Video of Ericka from the side 80k +
Video with Ericka in her short shorts 200k +

But I can see where Cory is did what he did, even at the local level to break out of the "average NRA certified instructor" mold you really need to have some military or SWAT background. Rightly or wrongly people believe that military or SWAT experience makes them more qualified to teach self defense. Though some USPSA GMs are able to do it, but it typically takes some wins to brag about. Anyways it is still wrong, just that I see why he did it.



Or you just shoot well and get the message out. Most of the folks out there don't really market, their sycophants do it for them.

Then again shooting well is hard and you can tell folks that competition is dumb and they'll buy into it so growing a beard and larping works better.

[PPGMD]

I only pay for advanced classes these days. I want four things from an instructor, someone who can help me master fundamentals, teach me advanced techniques...

What are these advanced techniques?

I think the idea that there are advanced techniques are one of the things hurting the industry.

You have shooting, and you have tactics.

[rob_s]

What are these advanced techniques?

I think the idea that there are advanced techniques are one of the things hurting the industry.

You have shooting, and you have tactics.

I agree, however....

There is also such a thing as supervised practice. It is nice to take a class where you don't have to spend 3 hours reviewing the drawstroke, and 3 hours reviewing reloads... you can jump right in to drills that combing skills, and getting observational feedback from the instructor.

of course, the way most "advanced" classes are fully un-vetted, it's pretty pointless as the class pretty much immediately gets dragged down to the lower skill level.

[rob_s]

But I can see where Cory is did what he did, even at the local level to break out of the "average NRA certified instructor" mold you really need to have some military or SWAT background. Rightly or wrongly people believe that military or SWAT experience makes them more qualified to teach self defense. Though some USPSA GMs are able to do it, but it typically takes some wins to brag about. Anyways it is still wrong, just that I see why he did it.

Because what most people want isn't actual training, or improvement. What they want is a bunch of cool stories and to feel good about themselves doing a bunch of ninja crap. There are two local instructors, at a minimum, that love to be vague about their backgrounds. "Students" are looking for merit badges, and not much else.

But we need the merit-badgers. You need someone to help pay the bill. You need 12 merit-badgers to get Kyle Defoor to town so that the other 4 guys in the class can learn something.

[RevolverRob]

What are these advanced techniques?

I think the idea that there are advanced techniques are one of the things hurting the industry.

You have shooting, and you have tactics.

Okay, I can rephrase to "advanced non-novice skillsets". You don't take a novice shooter out to the 500-yard range to learn to shoot a rifle from the prone position. You might, eventually, do some 500 yard shooting with a novice shooter, but that isn't where the class begins. Advanced "techniques" or advanced skillsets are for folks who have fundamental basic skillsets that, ideally, are sharp enough to apply to complex problems out of the box. You can think of it like this - In a lower division college course you learn basic theory and skills, in an upper division class you learn advanced theory and mastery of fundamentals, in a graduate course you take high-level professional theory, a mastery of fundamentals, and start applying those skills to learn advanced problem-solving techniques and skills.

An example - Moving from a class that works on fundamental draw stroke, sight alignment, trigger press skills to advanced shooting drills with moving targets that is not focused solely on the development of fundamentals, but on the application of fundamentals to problem solve. The actual skills involved may not be particularly different from the fundamentals (good sight alignment, quality trigger press, get the gun out and aligned as quickly as possible), instead they involve more complex situations. Fundamentally, all shooting is the same - Align the sights, press the trigger. Do it right and your reward is an accurate hit, barring any mechanical issues with the firearm, do it wrong and you don't hit. But there are situations where you chaos happens, the target moves, you move, the sensory input are different, wind, range, angle, all complicate what is going on.

That is what I mean by advanced.

-Rob

[jlw]

The only reason I knew who they are was from a thread here a while back that had a video of them and Ron Avery, and they came here to discuss that video. Haven't seen them since.

I have never seen a reference to them anywhere but here, and neither have been positive references.

As for training, there's plenty of folks that know how to run a gun that have never kicked a door. As long as they aren't teaching door kicking classes, then what is the problem? Falsifying service is another thing entirely.

[orionz06]

I'm starting to think you should have a YouTube channel.

I suggested "beer with Tim" in where he gets loaded and then rants on a topic each week. This was a good bit ago and nothing has happened.

#p-fdemandsaction

[jetfire]

Then again shooting well is hard and you can tell folks that competition is dumb and they'll buy into it so growing a beard and larping works better.

Amen, glory hallelujah.

[GardoneVT]

The only reason I knew who they are was from a thread here a while back that had a video of them and Ron Avery, and they came here to discuss that video. Haven't seen them since.

I have never seen a reference to them anywhere but here, and neither have been positive references.

As for training, there's plenty of folks that know how to run a gun that have never kicked a door. As long as they aren't teaching door kicking classes, then what is the problem? Falsifying service is another thing entirely.
The video quoted before with Ron Avery is an excellent case in point. Cory was engaging the trigger way too early in the draw stroke, which wouldn't be a big deal if he were a student.

Trouble is, he's marketing himself as a trainer. That's bad news because all he's doing is regurgitating other people's techniques, which is done without the experience context those originators learned it in. Someone's going to take a class from a guy like him, use his half taught moves copied from a Pantano video, and get in real trouble because of it. That's a problem right there in addition to lying about his service record. Medical Discharge is not = discharge for being AWOL.

Unfortunately the state of gun knowledge is such that an impostor can build a following before they get burned. Not long ago I posted a thread about others at the range marveling at my "skill" - and I objectively suck compared to the real pros. In the land of the blind XD toting SERPA fans, the one handed shooter at seven yards is "king".

[RevolverRob]

I'm starting to think I should shave off my beard.

As a fellow beard owner - Never. But then again, I'm not claiming to be a Tier 1 Operating Operator with the tactical experience operating in an operationally complex, outside of the standard operated square range, operational environment.

But as near as I can tell, neither are you, so your beard should be safe.



Then again shooting well is hard and you can tell folks that competition is dumb and they'll buy into it so growing a beard and larping works better.

What's with all the beard hate? #EqualTimeForBeards #BaldChinsGonnaHate

-Rob

[Mr_White]

End Beardshaming?

Where does the # go in that?

[Chuck Haggard]

One of the very real issues I have with instructors who BS their background is the fact that I might need them to go to court and talk about what training I had if I get into a defensive shooting.

This is where a guy like Gabe Suarez can add a certain amount of murky to what might have otherwise been OK in court. Yeager would be another guy I would shy away from, for the same reasons.

[JHC]

As a fellow beard owner - Never. But then again, I'm not claiming to be a Tier 1 Operating Operator with the tactical experience operating in an operationally complex, outside of the standard operated square range, operational environment.

But as near as I can tell, neither are you, so your beard should be safe.



What's with all the beard hate? #EqualTimeForBeards #BaldChinsGonnaHate

-Rob

+1 lay off the beards. They're as old as man. SOCOM didn't invent them, they adopted them. Along with the low profile ball cap. Adopted, not invented. These didn't come out of Natick. ;)

[jlw]

One of the very real issues I have with instructors who BS their background is the fact that I might need them to go to court and talk about what training I had if I get into a defensive shooting.

This is where a guy like Gabe Suarez can add a certain amount of murky to what might have otherwise been OK in court. Yeager would be another guy I would shy away from, for the same reasons.

Word.

[TGS]

+1 lay off the beards. They're as old as man. SOCOM didn't invent them, they adopted them. Along with the low profile ball cap. Adopted, not invented. These didn't come out of Natick. ;)

There's a difference between such a beard, and an intensely well groomed narcissistic douche beard.

Other than that, no beard hate from here. I even operated during an operation:

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/Finkerfuggles/beard_zps13be1f0d.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/Finkerfuggles/media/beard_zps13be1f0d.jpg.html)

[Al T.]

I might need them to go to court and talk about what training I had

I noted that Zimmerman's CWP instructor testified. Suspect that was a "clue". ;)

[Alpha Sierra]

No beard hate here gentlemen. I rocked one for 15 years straight, similar to TGS'.

There beards and there are "operator" beards.....

[Pup town]

One of the very real issues I have with instructors who BS their background is the fact that I might need them to go to court and talk about what training I had if I get into a defensive shooting.

This is where a guy like Gabe Suarez can add a certain amount of murky to what might have otherwise been OK in court. Yeager would be another guy I would shy away from, for the same reasons.


I noted that Zimmerman's CWP instructor testified. Suspect that was a "clue". ;)

I can see Ayoob or the conceal carry instructor testifying in someone's defense, but would you'd be calling on ToddG, or Kyle Defoor, or Larry Vickers or similar instructors to testify?

I'm pretty sure they stay away from legal issues in class, so what benefit would they be in your defense?

[Al T.]

I'm pretty sure they stay away from legal issues in class, so what benefit would they be in your defense?

Think about it from the other side. The prosecutor gets to call witnesses too. If you haven't trained with someone, there's no relationship to exploit.

[MVS]

One of the very real issues I have with instructors who BS their background is the fact that I might need them to go to court and talk about what training I had if I get into a defensive shooting.

This is where a guy like Gabe Suarez can add a certain amount of murky to what might have otherwise been OK in court. Yeager would be another guy I would shy away from, for the same reasons.

I am not so sure that will make much of a difference. If you picked the trainer in good faith, wouldn't that mitigate that to some extent even if it became an issue at all. Lets take you and I for example. I first heard you speak on active shooters (or was it excited delirium) at Rangemaster last year. I knew at that time if I got a chance to take a class from you I would. This opinion was solidified when we were in the same Advanced Instructor class at RM recently. I will be trying to take your block at PEP2 next weekend. All of that being said, the only thing I really know about you is the intros I have heard you give and what I have seen you write. If what you have given me is solid info, does it matter if you have skeleton's in your closet? Not sure.

[Pup town]

Think about it from the other side. The prosecutor gets to call witnesses too. If you haven't trained with someone, there's no relationship to exploit.

OK. I get that. I wouldn't want to be associated with Yeager, for example. While I tend to think that the internet over thinks certain issues in self defense cases (Don't change the sights or an overzealous prosecutor will use it against you!), I can see a prosecutor putting up videos of Yeager students doing ammo dumps and bounding overwatches and setting cars on fire. Next thing you know he's accusing you of excessive force because you trained with a bunch of wannabe commandos with fantasies of working overseas.

(Rob_S: can you explain who Yeager is for those that don't have Youtube?/:cool:)

Even more of a stretch, but I suppose a prosecutor could make hay about training with, say, Vickers or Defoor, who both were originally trained for situations that are miles away from a defensive shooting here in the U.S.

(Just to be clear, I see the likelihood of any of the above scenarios to be extremely, extremely small, and I wouldn't let it stop me from training with Vickers or Defoor. I only mentioned it because these hypothetical prosecutions always seem to come up in these sorts of threads.)

But, Chuck specifically mentioned the need for someone to testify on his behalf after a defensive situation, not just avoiding being associated with certain instructors. That's different.

[GardoneVT]

OK. I get that. I wouldn't want to be associated with Yeager, for example. While I tend to think that the internet over thinks certain issues in self defense cases (Don't change the sights or an overzealous prosecutor will use it against you!), I can see a prosecutor putting up videos of Yeager students doing ammo dumps and bounding overwatches and setting cars on fire. Next thing you know he's accusing you of excessive force because you trained with a bunch of wannabe commandos with fantasies of working overseas.

(Rob_S: can you explain who Yeager is for those that don't have Youtube?/:cool:)

Even more of a stretch, but I suppose a prosecutor could make hay about training with, say, Vickers or Defoor, who both were originally trained for situations that are miles away from a defensive shooting here in the U.S.

(Just to be clear, I see the likelihood of any of the above scenarios to be extremely, extremely small, and I wouldn't let it stop me from training with Vickers or Defoor. I only mentioned it because these hypothetical prosecutions always seem to come up in these sorts of threads.)

But, Chuck specifically mentioned the need for someone to testify on his behalf after a defensive situation, not just avoiding being associated with certain instructors. That's different.

It's a big win for the prosecutions argument logically if their case alleges that a citizen shot a man dead in untrained fright (=manslaughter), versus reasoned self defense. That gets easier if a person's "trainer" turns out to be a fraud, as it may seem here with regard to "Range Time".

[Suvorov]

(Rob_S: can you explain who Yeager is for those that don't have Youtube?/:cool:)


Hey!

Even I know who Yeager is (and I'm talking James and not Chuck)! This despite the fact that I am prohibited by my occupation to grow a beard. ;)

[Pup town]

It's a big win for the prosecutions argument logically if their case alleges that a citizen shot a man dead in untrained fright (=manslaughter), versus reasoned self defense. That gets easier if a person's "trainer" turns out to be a fraud, as it may seem here with regard to "Range Time".

I understand (sorta, I think it's a stretch that Corey lying about his military background will lead to accusations that you are untrained and therefore guilty of manslaughter.) Thats fine, though. All of my scenarios were a stretch as well.

Again though, that's about your instructor not being a witness for the prosecution.

***I'm asking how you can use tactics/marksmanship instructor as a witness for the defense. (I'd also be curious if there's a precedent for this. Again, I'm not talking about Ayoob or Concealed carry instructors).

I do know someone that had his defensive tactics instructor testify in his defense, but that's because the defensive tactics instructors taught the use of force for his agency. He didn't have anyone from the firearm unit testify (which is the equivalent role of ToddG, Vickers, etc.) For this agency, the firearms unit doesn't teach use of force, legal classes, etc, and neither do ToddG, Vickers, etc.

[orionz06]

I like that I have DVD's reflecting the course content of what has become a majority of my recent instruction.

[GJM]

I suggested "beer with Tim" in where he gets loaded and then rants on a topic each week. This was a good bit ago and nothing has happened.

#p-fdemandsaction

there is the possibility of a funny comment here, that I am surprised Caleb missed the opportunity on

[Chuck Haggard]

Lots of people do not get to the amount of training some of us do. Lets say this guy is the one handgun class a CCW person has gotten to. He needs instructor dude to talk in court about why a tactic, lets say a head shot, was a good idea in those circumstances. The other side brings up the dude has a history of lying. The jury gets to ponder all of this.

How many of you guys have been dragged through an ugly lawsuit or criminal case before? This isn't just academic talk for me.

[orionz06]

Lots of people do not get to the amount of training some of us do. Lets say this guy is the one handgun class a CCW person has gotten to. He needs instructor dude to talk in court about why a tactic, lets say a head shot, was a good idea in those circumstances. The other side brings up the dude has a history of lying. The jury gets to ponder all of this.

How many of you guys have been dragged through an ugly lawsuit or criminal case before? This isn't just academic talk for me.

How many of your trainers have?

How many merit badges do ya got from the guy who says "kill 'em all and let god sort it out" vs the guy who says "maybe you don't need to shoot him"..?

[Chuck Haggard]

How many of your trainers have?

How many merit badges do ya got from the guy who says "kill 'em all and let god sort it out" vs the guy who says "maybe you don't need to shoot him"..?

I'm very careful about who I spend money on to train with.


How many cases in state or federal court have you been in on where you were certified as and used as an expert witness?

[Dagga Boy]

How many of your trainers have?

How many merit badges do ya got from the guy who says "kill 'em all and let god sort it out" vs the guy who says "maybe you don't need to shoot him"..?

Guys who have actually been through a U.S. lethal force investigation, and had to testify as force experts in use of lethal force cases will be FAR more likely to say "maybe you don't need to shoot him", and stuff like shooting guys into the ground or burning guys into the ground will likely never come out of their mouths in a training environment to students. I have "merit badges" from both sets. I don't pass on the stuff from the first group in regards to use of force strategies, but usually am training with them for specific technique work.

Now as far as beards.........you guys aren't really calling those things "beards". That is groomed facial hair. A beard has its own personality and scares people.

[RevolverRob]

Guys who have actually been through a U.S. lethal force investigation, and had to testify as force experts in use of lethal force cases will be FAR more likely to say "maybe you don't need to shoot him", and stuff like shooting guys into the ground or burning guys into the ground will likely never come out of their mouths in a training environment to students. I have "merit badges" from both sets. I don't pass on the stuff from the first group in regards to use of force strategies, but usually am training with them for specific technique work.

This brings to mind what Clint Smith said in the first course I ever took which was, "I'm going to teach you how to not shoot someone. Then I will teach you what to do if you have to shoot him, because not shooting him didn't work. If you have to shoot him then I can sit in the court and say emphatically, "I taught them how to keep from shooting someone, unless they absolutely had to."" That was a pretty pivotal step in the mindset process for me, personally.



Now as far as beards.........you guys aren't really calling those things "beards". That is groomed facial hair. A beard has its own personality and scares people.

It's a little tough to teach college freshmen without at least washing the beard before hand...

-Rob

[orionz06]

Guys who have actually been through a U.S. lethal force investigation, and had to testify as force experts in use of lethal force cases will be FAR more likely to say "maybe you don't need to shoot him", and stuff like shooting guys into the ground or burning guys into the ground will likely never come out of their mouths in a training environment to students. I have "merit badges" from both sets. I don't pass on the stuff from the first group in regards to use of force strategies, but usually am training with them for specific technique work.

Now as far as beards.........you guys aren't really calling those things "beards". That is groomed facial hair. A beard has its own personality and scares people.

That articulation alone may be enough.

"Why did you train with Instructor π who is Spetsnaz and a known advocate of killing everyone in the room?

...Because he has a great ____________ that makes me a better ___________ that I can apply when I use different criteria to decide when to pull the trigger.

[Spr1]

Has anyone confirmed if Erika is on the market?

I would refer you back to the Hot/Crazy Matrix thread. For your own safety....... :)

[jlw]

I submit certificates to POST for credit. They become part of my official training record which is subject to discovery and open records request.

That being said, there is no database out there that prosecutors can access to see what training a private citizen has taken unless the private citizen creates it by making blog post and YouTube videos. If you go to training and never publicize it in any way, chances are that the prosecutor will never know. Of course, if you bring your training into light on your defense, you bring it all when you open that door.

-----
All of that being said, one of the Tactical Response instructors was a student in a class that I recently took. He seemed like a decent guy with none of the firebrand bravado often demonstrated in their videos.

[Alpha Sierra]

Guys who have actually been through a U.S. lethal force investigation, and had to testify as force experts in use of lethal force cases will be FAR more likely to say "maybe you don't need to shoot him", and stuff like shooting guys into the ground or burning guys into the ground will likely never come out of their mouths in a training environment to students. I have "merit badges" from both sets. I don't pass on the stuff from the first group in regards to use of force strategies, but usually am training with them for specific technique work.
Thanks for the explanation, I understand now. I tried responding but the inbox is full.

[PPGMD]

I would refer you back to the Hot/Crazy Matrix thread. For your own safety....... :)

Certain people are willing to put up with the abuse to have a hot looking wife.

And then there are people that marry hot gingers...


All of that being said, one of the Tactical Response instructors was a student in a class that I recently took. He seemed like a decent guy with none of the firebrand bravado often demonstrated in their videos.

People that know Yeager well enough understand that the Youtube channel is part show. He doesn't say anything on his Youtube channel that he wouldn't say in real life, but like a preacher giving a sermon he puts a little more attitude behind it. And you know what, it works for him and his business.

[TheNewbie]

I don't understand why people lie about the military record. Makes no sense to me, own what happened. When I was 18 I joined the Air Force, after 10 months of tech school, I failed out. Not proud of it and I wish I had handled things differently, but I didn't. I don't go around claiming to be a veteran, because I am not a true veteran. If it ever gets brought up in conversation I am honest about what happened and tell people it was me and nothing else.

I received an honorable discharge and a great life lesson. 10 years later I am a much better person for it and now a police officer. If guys like this would just be honest about who they are and own their failures, most people would forgive them.

In regard to the beards......between all the wannabe operators and the hipsters, I am seriously considering getting rid of mine. It just makes me look and tad older and slightly more sophisticated, but those are two groups I do not want to be lumped into.

[Corey]

I just want to jump in at this point to emphasize that I am NOT that Corey, I am a completely different Corey. I was also never in the military, never been a cop, and haven't taught a gun class in almost 10 years now. That is all.

[TGS]

I just want to jump in at this point to emphasize that I am NOT that Corey, I am a completely different Corey. I was also never in the military, never been a cop, and haven't taught a gun class in almost 10 years now. That is all.

Hah! We're on to your shenanigans. Now you're lying about who you are and where you from, eh Corey?!

;)

[Kyle Reese]

Their bios are still up.

2502

[jetfire]

I wonder if she knew.

[breakingtime91]

My beard is safe. That is all.

[Chuck Haggard]

Looking at her bio one of my first thoughts is "phrasing"

[rob_s]

I wonder if she knew.

Good question.

By all accounts she started as a student of his, and made the transition to YouTube eye-candy, then business partner,then baby-momma. That last bit complicates things.

I'm way more interested in the opinions of the other two guys on the bio page.

[Spr1]

Looking at her bio one of my first thoughts is "phrasing"

I had the exact same thought, you expressed it more discretely than the quoted phrase I was contemplating......

[GardoneVT]

I had the exact same thought, you expressed it more discretely than the quoted phrase I was contemplating......

Perhaps the phrasing is intentional?

I'm no investigator, but the "relationship" part seems to have happened before the "Gun Ninja" stage. Erika Maxwell has her own channel separate of Range Time called Emaxwell21, most of which is composed of videos before they got big.

[GJM]

I think it is time she dumps Corey and goes out solo. Her first new vid could be a rehash of the hot/crazy chart for female shooters, where she explains how hot is on one axis and shooting is on the other.

[Doug]

Their bios are still up.

2502

A video Erika made on the origins of her shooting background.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EMh_8xvlCjs

https://youtube.com/watch?v=EMh_8xvlCjs

So does dressing in denim shorts, posing in the woods, set an example why one would want to take their daughter to her for training. View count @1.55 million views.

[GJM]

So does dressing in denim shorts, posing in the woods, set an example why one would want to take their daughter to her for training. View count @1.55 million views.

Here is a clue -- guys don't watch her and think of their daughters.

[Dagga Boy]

Here is a clue -- guys don't watch her and think of their daughters.

I do.........which is why I could care less about this Erika person.........unless her mom is hot..:cool:

[Doug]

Here is a clue -- guys don't watch her and think of their daughters.

Yup, to Range Time it is all about views and money. Most of the whole shooting world just wants a buck from shooting enthusiastists/practitioners.

But for me, I have shown my daughter videos of female competitor shooters running stages when she asked me about my dry fire practice with cardboard targets. Compared it to the Disney movie "Brave" ....the scene with arrow shooting on the move and all, except not on horseback ;)

[HopetonBrown]

New video montage floating around, with clips of Cory juxtaposed with documents and Facebook/YouTube comments. Don't know how much is legit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XphvXVJh9s

[Pup town]

From some well-wishers posts on Facebook, I gather that it Range Time lost its zoning fight a few days ago.

It's been a bad week for ol' Cory.

[Malamute]

I do.........which is why I could care less about this Erika person.........unless her mom is hot..:cool:


Made me laugh out loud!

Interesting how semi-geezerhood changes our perspective a bit. I often have those "wonder if her mom is hot" moments when seeing cute women.

[Paul D]

New video montage floating around, with clips of Cory juxtaposed with documents and Facebook/YouTube comments. Don't know how much is legit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XphvXVJh9s

He says mitral valve prolapse got him kicked out. According to the US Army Standards of Medical Fitness for enlistment Rule 2-18.a: "Current or history of all valvular heart diseases, congenital (746) or acquired (394), including those improved bysurgery, do not meet the standard. Mitral valve prolapse or bicuspid aortic valve is not disqualifying unless there is associated tachyarrhythmia, mitral regurgitation, aortic stenosis, insufficiency, or cardiomegaly." Definitely not credible for him to say that.

[JV_]

Tom already asked that the content be kept clean, this is the last warning.

Leave the speculation about her mother, and whether he is missing part of his reproductive anatomy, for another site.

[GardoneVT]

From some well-wishers posts on Facebook, I gather that it Range Time lost its zoning fight a few days ago.

It's been a bad week for ol' Cory.

More like the consequences of Mr Jackson's poor choices have made themselves known. Logic would suggest an individual cannot invent a military career nor create a gun range where it is not legal to do so and expect to prosper.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Let us thus return to patronizing and discussing the many number of genuine instructors who don't employ fraud as a business principle.

[MVS]

He says mitral valve prolapse got him kicked out. According to the US Army Standards of Medical Fitness for enlistment Rule 2-18.a: "Current or history of all valvular heart diseases, congenital (746) or acquired (394), including those improved bysurgery, do not meet the standard. Mitral valve prolapse or bicuspid aortic valve is not disqualifying unless there is associated tachyarrhythmia, mitral regurgitation, aortic stenosis, insufficiency, or cardiomegaly." Definitely not credible for him to say that.

This is not to defend Cory, but just to speak to that point. What the rules say and what they actually do can be a couple of different things. I made it through my 11B basic and AIT just fine. When I got to Ft. Ord my flat feet could just not take the pounding of the "Light" infantry. I tried to get reclassified but since it was during the time of a big drawdown they just offered me an early separation with a Honorable discharge. I was informed that I could petition for a medical but I thought that would look wimpy so I declined. Funny thing about that is, it didn't stop them from recalling me to active duty 9 months later for Operation Desert Storm.

[Alpha Sierra]

New video montage floating around, with clips of Cory juxtaposed with documents and Facebook/YouTube comments. Don't know how much is legit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XphvXVJh9s

LOL what a bag of douche

[GardoneVT]

This is not to defend Cory, but just to speak to that point. What the rules say and what they actually do can be a couple of different things. I made it through my 11B basic and AIT just fine. When I got to Ft. Ord my flat feet could just not take the pounding of the "Light" infantry. I tried to get reclassified but since it was during the time of a big drawdown they just offered me an early separation with a Honorable discharge. I was informed that I could petition for a medical but I thought that would look wimpy so I declined. Funny thing about that is, it didn't stop them from recalling me to active duty 9 months later for Operation Desert Storm.

Very true. That being said, the documentation offered so far is very consistent :Mr Jackson was AWOL before day 1, got apprehended, and the .mil decided to kick him out instead of going through the motions to prosecute him.

On that subject, here's a question for the legal eagles:can the military still try him today for charges of desertion or AWOL, or is there a statute of limitations involved here?

[Suvorov]

This is not to defend Cory, but just to speak to that point. What the rules say and what they actually do can be a couple of different things. I made it through my 11B basic and AIT just fine. When I got to Ft. Ord my flat feet could just not take the pounding of the "Light" infantry. I tried to get reclassified but since it was during the time of a big drawdown they just offered me an early separation with a Honorable discharge. I was informed that I could petition for a medical but I thought that would look wimpy so I declined. Funny thing about that is, it didn't stop them from recalling me to active duty 9 months later for Operation Desert Storm.

We are talking two entirely different things here. You served honorably and in good faith. Had the Army at the time had other use for you they would have reassigned you - instead they gave you what you deserved, an honorable discharge. This Corey guy on the other hand sounds like he left without permission, which by itself is not the worse thing a soldier ever did but certainly not worthy of an honorable discharge. Where it sounds like he went way wrong is in presenting himself as something he was not.

You don't have to be a snake eater all tabbed out with 3 combat tours, 3 ex wives, a drinking problem, and PTSD to have served your country - you just have to have raised that right hand and fulfilled the terms of your commitment. It doesn't sound like this guy even managed that.

[Kyle Reese]

Here are the discharge orders.

2505

[TGS]

AR630-10: Absence Without
Leave, Desertion,
and
Administration of
Personnel
Involved in
Civilian Court
Proceedings (http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r630_10.pdf)

In case anyone was wondering what the discharging authority was, as listed in the orders.

For anyone who doesn't really understand why military persons are making a big deal about this, please consider that what he did would traditionally be considered desertion (AWOL being a temporary absence, whereas he specifically did not plan to return and was apprehended, meaning desertion). It's much quicker and cheaper to administratively separate the person, but prior to such protocols being put into place it would usually carry a Dishonorable Discharge, which is equivalent to a felony conviction in civilian courts.

You may remember filling out a Form 4473 at the gun shop and it asking if you've received a dishonorable discharge.

If the military took the time to do things the proper way, he wouldn't even be allowed to own the guns he's been running a sham of a business with.

[TGS]

This is not to defend Cory, but just to speak to that point. What the rules say and what they actually do can be a couple of different things. I made it through my 11B basic and AIT just fine. When I got to Ft. Ord my flat feet could just not take the pounding of the "Light" infantry. I tried to get reclassified but since it was during the time of a big drawdown they just offered me an early separation with a Honorable discharge. I was informed that I could petition for a medical but I thought that would look wimpy so I declined. Funny thing about that is, it didn't stop them from recalling me to active duty 9 months later for Operation Desert Storm.

Me and 3 other guys at my command were petitioning for medical. I, along with 3 others, were actually refused referrals to specialty docs because it would likely have resulted in a diagnosis. Diagnosis=medical board. No diagnosis=sit around on light duty until EAS (as opposed to limited duty, which would necessitate a medical board after a period of time).

And you know what the shitty part of it really was? While my injuries were sustained from training, the 3 other dudes sustained their injuries from combat....and they still got shafted.

They're also not allowed to EAS you if you still have medical appointments scheduled for an ongoing, undiagnosed problem. I did. They just marked the form opposite, and it was done. EAS day couldn't have been a more bittersweet time for me. When I got into the IRR, I was offered a voluntary early resignation after my first muster, as they knew I was a non-useful body and to quote the JAG handling my resignation, "This is kind of a black eye on your command, and they want to make it go away." While fighting the system was completely unproductive, hearing an admission of guilt from someone working for the system kind of gave me closure to put the issue behind me. So, I at least got that luxury...some guys aren't as lucky.

So, I hear you on how things are suppose to work vs how they actually do. Military medical folks aren't there to take care of you...their purpose is to keep the rosters at strength and keep the command from getting too much notice from higher. However, like Suvorov said, things not working out for one reason or another is different than running away and being apprehended by police.

[GardoneVT]

AR630-10: Absence Without
Leave, Desertion,
and
Administration of
Personnel
Involved in
Civilian Court
Proceedings (http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r630_10.pdf)

In case anyone was wondering what the discharging authority was, as listed in the orders.

For anyone who doesn't really understand why military persons are making a big deal about this, please consider that what he did would traditionally be considered desertion (AWOL being a temporary absence, whereas he specifically did not plan to return and was apprehended, meaning desertion). It's much quicker and cheaper to administratively separate the person, but prior to such protocols being put into place it would usually carry a Dishonorable Discharge, which is equivalent to a felony conviction in civilian courts.

You may remember filling out a Form 4473 at the gun shop and it asking if you've received a dishonorable discharge.

If the military took the time to do things the proper way, he wouldn't even be allowed to own the guns he's been running a sham of a business with.

According to that instruction, a unit commander is to accomplish the following in the event of an AWOL:


3–1. Dropped from rolls procedures a. The unit commander— (1) Completes DA Form 4187, reporting the Soldier’s change of duty status from AWOL to DFR and notifies the military pay office within 48 hours of the Soldiers change in duty status from AWOL to DFR. (2) Completes DD Form 553. The suspected reasons for the absence and information on pending investigations, Article 15, or Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) action at the time of the Soldier’s absence is recorded in item 19. If additional supporting documents are required, the phrase “see attached sheet” is also entered in item 19. (3) Sends the completed DD Form 553 to the supporting provost marshal per AR 190–45. (4) Files court–martial charges on DD Form 458. These charges should be brought in addition to charges for other offenses, as appropriate. The sworn charges are forwarded to the summary court–martial convening authority who enters the hour and date of receipt on page 2 of the charge sheet. (5) Forwards the original copy of the deserter packet through the supporting PSC to the Commander, Fort Knox Personnel Control Center, ATTN: ATZK–PMF–DIP, Fort Knox, Kentucky 40121. The USADIP is located at that address. (6) Completes timely and accurate coordination with the installation deserter control officer. b. An absentee will not be DFR— (1) While under military control. (2) While confined by civilian authorities. However, personnel can be DFR on eMILPO if confined for 6 months or longer. (3) While receiving treatment in a civilian medical facility. (4) If the absentee dies before the desertion report is prepared."

For the non military folk, that paragraph means Cory Jackson's commanding officer should have filed charges for AWOL as a matter of processing his exit from service. That naturally would lead to a dishonorable discharge at least, if not a BCD.

That raises two questions for me. I served in finance, not the JAG Corps, so I could be wrong about this: but the instruction makes it clear if Jackson went AWOL he should have an accompanying negative discharge characterization.

I've seen people get general discharges before, but those were PT failures or academic issues-situations where people didn't get the job done according to service performance standards, but they didn't break the law either . Airmen who did cross the UCMJ got BCDs almost every time, and in the bad cases went to jail before being kicked out. I can't see even the laxest CO just cutting someone loose after Law Enforcement has been dispatched to find and arrest a deserter. What Jackson did is a long way from a night of drinking which got out of hand.

Just for perspective I personally knew an Airman who, upon his 21st Birthday, got blackout drunk and punched a civilian police officer off post. The civilian charges were transferred to the base, and he was express deleted from the Air Force roster with a plate of Big Chicken Dinner. That's not good, but it pales compared to going AWOL and being arrested for it.

So, assuming Cory Jackson has a BCD on his record, this means he's a felon illegally handling firearms - and Erika Maxwell may be an accomplice, unwitting or otherwise, to straw purchasing weapons for a prohibited person. And YouTube has literally thousands of hours of evidence for all to see if that's the case . TGS might be on to something here.

Either that, or Cory Jackson had the dumb luck to serve under a CO so lazy they wouldn't bother filing charges against a known, fugitive deserter. Call me nuts, but I don't buy that scenario.

[rob_s]

The way the story is written In various places, it sounds to me like he just didn't show up for basic. Maybe went to MEPS, got cold feet, and never got on the bus for basic?

[Alpha Sierra]

The way the story is written In various places, it sounds to me like he just didn't show up for basic. Maybe went to MEPS, got cold feet, and never got on the bus for basic?

Makes no difference. He's a shitbag who disrepected the legion of men and women who did the duty they signed up for to the best of their ability.

[rob_s]

I'm not saying it makes a difference. I'm asking if that's the way others think the story went down, or if there's another theory.
If it went down that way, it may explain why here wasn't more in terms of pursuit/prosecution. Especially since this was the Guard pre-9/11.

[Kyle Reese]

To the best of my knowledge, the only military discharge that would prohibit someone from lawfully owning and possessing firearms and ammunition would be Dishonorable. Having apprehended lots of AWOL and deserters during my time in the Army, the only time a command would bother pursuing Courts Martial would be if said deserter would have pending UCMJ for something else, or if they missed movement for deployment.

Generally speaking, if PV1 Joe Snuffy just decided to go AWOL because they didn't like being yelled at, the Army wouldn't bother wasting the time and resources pursuing them or prosecuting them. Generally, they'd be listed as a deserter and dropped from rolls (DFR) after 30 consecutive days of being absent from their unit. A warrant would also be issued for their arrest.

If taken into custody by civilian authorities, they'd notify the Army and an AWOL apprehension team would be dispatched to return them to military control (assuming they'd committed no civilian crimes that got them popped in the first place). The AWOL app team would escort them back to their duty station, sometimes they'd get a Field Grade Article 15, and sometimes they'd be sent to Ft.Sill, OK for outprocessing and to receive their Other than Honorable or Bad Conduct Discharge.

That's how it worked most of the time at Ft.Hood. In a training environment (or pre-training, like Reception BN), if someone can't cut it, they're discharged there.

[Kennydale]

I took the time to read his whole thread. Either he had skills and can teach, or he can't. If there is a chargeable offense I think somebody should take him to court. Frankly this is s goofy issue. I'd rather discuss if a certain personage is qualified to hold a particular HIGH OFFICE, due to his maybe being born out of the country. But we let that slide don't we.

[TCinVA]

Either he had skills and can teach, or he can't.

Character matters.

[Kyle Reese]

I took the time to read his whole thread. Either he had skills and can teach, or he can't. If there is a chargeable offense I think somebody should take him to court. Frankly this is s goofy issue. I'd rather discuss if a certain personage is qualified to hold a particular HIGH OFFICE, due to his maybe being born out of the country. But we let that slide don't we.

It's not a "goofy" issue to those who have lost brothers in arms in the last 13 years.

He represented himself as someone who received a medical discharge for a heart issue. The truth is he washed out of reception battalion, where you go to process before you even report to your basic training company. I get it - the military isn't for everyone, yadda yadda yadda.

I just have nothing but total contempt for AWOL and deserters. Call me cruel, mean, whatever.

[rob_s]

I took the time to read his whole thread. Either he had skills and can teach, or he can't. If there is a chargeable offense I think somebody should take him to court. Frankly this is s goofy issue. I'd rather discuss if a certain personage is qualified to hold a particular HIGH OFFICE, due to his maybe being born out of the country. But we let that slide don't we.

As someone who has no mil or LE background but who has had some success teaching others to shoot better than I myself can, I agree with you that when it comes to instructing, that is the skill and history that matters, not scalps or OISs. In fact, I would often RATHER train, on basic shooting skills alone, with someone without those credentials as I don't think they are 1:1 with each other.

So, why did Cory feel that he had to lie? All he had to do was be good at shooting and teaching others how to shoot. Not all that terribly difficult.

Which says a lot about the kind of person he is. And if you'd actually read this whole thread, you'd know that already.

What I suspect is that his lie snowballed, as lies are wont to do. He was a nobody shooter locally, then went and took a sleepaway class or two and got some local notoriety. People started asking/assuming he was prior service because of the ink, the guns, the beard, whatever (hell, I've had people ask if/assume that I was in the military, and I always answer "no", it's not that hard). He took it too far, landed a chick with the lies, and then became conspicuous. The last thing you want when you're a liar is to become conspicuous. he tried to backtrack, with the interview he gave where he blamed a heart condition, but it was too late, and that itself was a lie.

[KeeFus]

It's not a "goofy" issue to those who have lost brothers in arms in the last 13 years.

He represented himself as someone who received a medical discharge for a heart issue. The truth is he washed out of reception battalion, where you go to process before you even report to your basic training company. I get it - the military isn't for everyone, yadda yadda yadda.

I just have nothing but total contempt for AWOL and deserters. Call me cruel, mean, whatever.

Wow! He washed out at reception? I didn't even know that was possible.

I do not like deserters/AWOL types. I was an MP from 1989-1993. We had a few MP's go AWOL during my time in. They did not fare so well once they returned.

In the late 90's I caught a guy that was AWOL/deserter from the Army. He had been involved in an accident and I happened to run his license number. He came back from NCIC wanted. Ft Bragg MP's came to get him the next day. He had a hard go of it at the jail and I'm sure the 1-1.5 hour ride back to Bragg was long. They were nice enough to leave me a form to fill out so I could get some money for it. I just contributed it to the 'coffee fund' at the PD.

Going AWOL/deserting IS a big deal...especially to the folks that have to work beside you.

[Tamara]

I'd rather discuss if a certain personage is qualified to hold a particular HIGH OFFICE, due to his maybe being born out of the country. But we let that slide don't we.

Seriously?

[Kennydale]

To be honest I've seen a few of their videos. They seem OK. I never saw any mention of him being former military. And if he is, he should be taken to task. But then again must people just want results. They don't look any further than that. Your right there should be honest and honor. I'll try to quote John Wayne her. On Dean Martin's TV Show he stated that though his daughter (at that time) works never need to serve our country, he wanted her to know and respect the sacrifices our military makes. I am not defending him.

[LOKNLOD]

I took the time to read his whole thread. Either he had skills and can teach, or he can't. If there is a chargeable offense I think somebody should take him to court. Frankly this is s goofy issue. I'd rather discuss if a certain personage is qualified to hold a particular HIGH OFFICE, due to his maybe being born out of the country. But we let that slide don't we.

Yeah, well we probably all question the current POTUS's leadership qualifications, but we can't really do much about it on this forum. Way to head off into far left field there. Meanwhile, this guy is catching flak because he CAN be directly influenced by our community and reflects directly upon it when viewed by others. If someone is misrepresenting themselves, their background, and qualifications, and using those fabrications as a foundation to gain the trust of others to get their training business, then it is an issue. No one really cares if he is .mil or not, but displaying a lack of integrity means people who value those sort of goofy issues may not want to recommend or deal with a guy who's been flat out lying about this stuff. And that's not even getting into the issue of people who've earned rank and status through service taking it very personal when others make those claims falsely.

[TGS]

I took the time to read his whole thread. Either he had skills and can teach, or he can't. If there is a chargeable offense I think somebody should take him to court. Frankly this is s goofy issue. I'd rather discuss if a certain personage is qualified to hold a particular HIGH OFFICE, due to his maybe being born out of the country. But we let that slide don't we.


No chargeable offense. This is about veterans policing their own ranks to maintain a standard, and outing a pathlogical liar and coward in an industry with which these traits are obviously not compatible.

This should be self-evident.

[Kennydale]

I hate auto correct

[GardoneVT]

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/finger-draw-avery.jpg

From this thread (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?8093-Ron-Avery-Talks-the-Science-of-the-Draw-Stroke),courtesy ToddG.

[Shellback]

So, assuming Cory Jackson has a BCD on his record, this means he's a felon illegally handling firearms - and Erika Maxwell may be an accomplice, unwitting or otherwise, to straw purchasing weapons for a prohibited person. And YouTube has literally thousands of hours of evidence for all to see if that's the case . TGS might be on to something here.

I have no sympathy for him, let him burn. Her, on the other hand, if she truly didn't know it doesn't serve much purpose punishing her.

[TGS]

I have no sympathy for him, let him burn. Her, on the other hand, if she truly didn't know it doesn't serve much purpose punishing her.

Not to mention Gardone is really offbase with assuming shes a straw purchaser, and completely misunderstood that BC discharges do not carry the weight of a felony....

If he even has a BC. Someone has probably posted his DD214 somewhere by now.

[jetfire]

Not to mention Gardone is really offbase with assuming shes a straw purchaser, and completely misunderstood that BC discharges do not carry the weight of a felony....

If he even has a BC. Someone has probably posted his DD214 somewhere by now.

Would he even have a DD214 if he didn't make to basic?

[Shellback]

I knew a guy just like him from when I was in the USN. Went, AWOL, BCD, etc. Guy was a compulsive liar and would say the dumbest stuff.

I ran into him a few years later at a mutual friend's house. The girl he was with at the time never knew about the military, he was a grape (fueled jets), and she thought he was a pitcher for USC who threw his arm out and lost his scholarship. :confused:

My only comment to her was "He's full of poop!" and hopefully she took that to heart. I left shortly thereafter not wanting to be mixed up in anyone else's drama.

[TGS]

Would he even have a DD214 if he didn't make to basic?

Good catch. :p

[TGS]

I knew a guy just like him from when I was in the USN. Went, AWOL, BCD, etc. Guy was a compulsive liar and would say the dumbest stuff.

I ran into him a few years later at a mutual friend's house. The girl he was with at the time never knew about the military, he was a grape (fueled jets), and she thought he was a pitcher for USC who threw his arm out and lost his scholarship. :confused:

My only comment to her was "He's full of poop!" and hopefully she took that to heart. I left shortly thereafter not wanting to be mixed up in anyone else's drama.

Have two people at work who got caught.

1 said she was in the military. Turns out she was a JROTC nazi.

The other said he was an AF med tech and that he had deployed. Turns out to be phony, as well.

[rob_s]

I have no sympathy for him, let him burn. Her, on the other hand, if she truly didn't know it doesn't serve much purpose punishing her.

Unfortunately, if she's been hitching her wagon to him all this time and making life/business decisions with him, she's going to get punished no mater what. Which is why people should be careful who they hitch their wagon to...

I saw in earlier discussions that she's around 22. If he really enlisted in '01 that would make him what, 33? 34? I'm sure his DOB is on one of the documents posted in the thread.

[rob_s]

Also, it looks like 1 MOA Solutions has taken down all mention of this from their FB page, anyone else seeing that?

https://www.facebook.com/1MOASolutions

[PPGMD]

Unfortunately, if she's been hitching her wagon to him all this time and making life/business decisions with him, she's going to get punished no mater what. Which is why people should be careful who they hitch their wagon to...

I saw in earlier discussions that she's around 22. If he really enlisted in '01 that would make him what, 33? 34? I'm sure his DOB is on one of the documents posted in the thread.

He is 36 years old. If she is seriously 22 years old, that is a huge age difference. So I wonder if she has a career of her own.


Also, it looks like 1 MOA Solutions has taken down all mention of this from their FB page, anyone else seeing that?

https://www.facebook.com/1MOASolutions

Facebook probably pulled it.

[Shellback]

Unfortunately, if she's been hitching her wagon to him all this time and making life/business decisions with him, she's going to get punished no mater what. Which is why people should be careful who they hitch their wagon to...

I don't disagree with your assessment. But, I still don't think she should be punished or maligned if she wasn't aware of his checkered past. Most people take each other at face value, trust what they say, and don't conduct a background check on the other individual. Young girl sees dude who looks the part, knows the lingo and assumes the best, not too uncommon.

I guess I'm sympathetic, cause I've seen it happen in real life, and it will most likely negatively affect that person for the rest of their life and the relationships that they have going forward.

[Cecil Burch]

Character matters.

This!

I spent about a quarter of a century trying to learn how to be as good at H2H stuff as possible. I traveled all over, spent a ton of money, and tons of time training with a who's who of fabled dangerous people (as labeled as such by Black Belt and Inside Kung Fu magazines). I learned a lot, but also had to deal with some of the most mentally off-balanced and morally bankrupt people on the planet. There were constant issues and drama situations. I chalked it up to the price I had to pay to learn the best stuff. Once I realized there were good and decent people out there who could also kick ass, I stopped dealing with the pyschos. No matter what you learn from them, there is always a high cost, and it is also unnecessary. You can learn great and functional methods from good people who won't take a piece of your soul.

Character always matters in the end.

[rob_s]

it will most likely negatively affect that person for the rest of their life and the relationships that they have going forward.

Oh, without a doubt. Couple his outing with their possible loss of the range, and she's now had a kid with (and married to?) a washed-up tattooist. It's going to be no easy row to hoe.

That's what life is, a series of poop-sandwiches that we all take bites from every so often, and in turn, with time, learn to smell the poop before we bite. This forum has plenty of discussion on looking for "tells" in a potential attacker, but not much discussion in "how not to get taken in, knocked up, and stuck with, a lying turd". Which happens more often, I wonder...

it may be unfortunate for her and her child, but it's their reality right now. The rest of us will move on to some other internet drama in a couple of weeks, but she's still going to be stuck with Cory.

[Pup town]

Has Cory addressed this?

Any word from his two adjunct instructors Steve Winenger and Kyle Diethrich (both of whom list military deployments in their bios. I have no reason to believe they have falsified their backgrounds.)

I'd like to think that they didn't know Cory had gone AWOL and never went to Basic.

But then again, they knew he had lied about being an 11B and being "in the Sandbox"...

From the Range Time website:

Mod Note:
Don't past a large section of someone else's website/copyrighted material. Using a quote, feel free to paste a sentence or two and provide a link.
http://pistol-forum.com/announcement.php?f=27

[John Hearne]

He is 36 years old. If she is seriously 22 years old, that is a huge age difference. So I wonder if she has a career of her own.

Easy now. (Asks the guy who opted to skip ahead in the drama and marry the trophy wife first skipping the nasty middle parts of that story.)

[PPGMD]

Easy now. (Asks the guy who opted to skip ahead in the drama and marry the trophy wife first skipping the nasty middle parts of that story.)

I don't think she is a trophy wife, I was simply wondering if she had a career of her own. It is much easier for a woman to leave a problem relationship if they aren't dependent on that person, particularly when children are involved.

But honestly I've seen otherwise intelligent women cling to men who have lied to them. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, and the lie is much more serious. In one case it was a pedophile, who admitted to it, was convicted by a court, and was on the sex offenders watch list. Compared to that Corey's lie is very very minor.

Unfortunately this was all gained through personal experience of knowing the people involved.

[Sasage]

I thought in one of the vids she wanted to be LEO

[Tamara]

But honestly I've seen otherwise intelligent women cling to men who have lied to them. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, and the lie is much more serious.

People don't want to believe that their judgment could be that bad; that the person they've trusted and believed in is a fraud.

[orionz06]

I thought in one of the vids she wanted to be LEO

Sure sounds good to potential customers and Cory, assuming she did not know the full scope of his issues.

It is not uncommon for women in relationships to express a false interest in what their boyfriend/husband does. She would need to sign up for academy to make me believe it.

[Tamara]

How many cases of ammo would she need to burn to convince you she kinda dug shooting?

[rob_s]

How many cases of ammo would she need to burn to convince you she kinda dug shooting?

With or without him?

With him, there isn't enough ammo in the world. Without him? it would be more about frequency than volume.

[orionz06]

I don't doubt she likes shooting, I doubt she really wanted to be LE.

Though she could sign up and just skip out of academy.

[Tamara]

Though she could sign up and just skip out of academy.

Heh. :D

That said, she's right at that age where a lot of folks have a pretty bad case of Jethro Bodine Syndrome, one day wanting to be a double-naught spy, the next day a brain surgeon, and the day after that a streetcar conductor. She may have wanted to be a cop when she said it. Who knows?

[TCinVA]

Heh. :D

That said, she's right at that age where a lot of folks have a pretty bad case of Jethro Bodine Syndrome, one day wanting to be a double-naught spy, the next day a brain surgeon, and the day after that a streetcar conductor. She may have wanted to be a cop when she said it. Who knows?

Being a cop sounds like a lot of fun right up until you start talking seriously to people who have done it for a while. I wouldn't blame anybody for finding out what it's actually like and deciding they'd rather do something else.

[KeeFus]

Being a cop sounds like a lot of fun right up until you start talking seriously to people who have done it for a while. I wouldn't blame anybody for finding out what it's actually like and deciding they'd rather do something else.

Truth!!!

[RevolverRob]

Heh. :D

That said, she's right at that age where a lot of folks have a pretty bad case of Jethro Bodine Syndrome, one day wanting to be a double-naught spy, the next day a brain surgeon, and the day after that a streetcar conductor. She may have wanted to be a cop when she said it. Who knows?

Boy ain't that the truth. When I was 15-24 any day of the week it could have been, fighter pilot, racecar driver, cop, lawyer, FBI agent, DEA agent, CIA operative - The one thing I knew then, that I still know now is after doing a "real" corporate job, I never wanted to do that again. Fortunately, I had some cool parents, who were content to let me figure it out for awhile, and as long as I had a job, any job, would help me pay for the college tuition and bills - I dabbled as a racecar driver, and spent some time chatting with FBI/DEA agents and cops, I took some pre-law classes...

Finally I decided that someday, when I grow up, I'll figure it out...:D

[GardoneVT]

I'm 27, but one reason I'm considering LE even knowing about the political issues is because frankly, those problems exist in every job. I served active duty Air Force, and am in a corporate environment now while in college. One common theme I've seen is people acting like high schoolers who should know better . If I have to put up with high school BS, I'd like it to mean more then making the color on an excel spreadsheet green instead of yellow.

[TCinVA]

I'm 27, but one reason I'm considering LE even knowing about the political issues is because frankly, those problems exist in every job. I served active duty Air Force, and am in a corporate environment now while in college. One common theme I've seen is people acting like high schoolers who should know better . If I have to put up with high school BS, I'd like it to mean more then making the color on an excel spreadsheet green instead of yellow.

If your job involves an excel spreadsheet and your co-workers screw you over and abandon you, you go home at night.

If your job involves being in a fight with a violent felon on the side of the road and your co-workers screw you over and drive right by you without stopping to render assistance (I know of multiple officers this has happened to), you end up in the hospital or the morgue.

The dysfunctions of public agencies like police departments, the military, and other public agencies are largely the same. The difference is the severity of the consequences as a result of the dysfunction depending on the agency/unit and what they do. In some government agencies what happens is waste of resources and personnel who may leave the organization to go do something else. At the VA what you get are veterans who die instead of receiving care. In police departments you end up with officers in the hospital or killed. In the military you end up with casualties. You'd figure that the more severe life-altering or even fatal consequences that come along with the more dangerous types of government service would cause people surrounding them to live up to a higher standard...and you'd be wrong.

When you get a great big helping of how wrong that assumption is, and you see how pointless the circumstances that produced that outcome are, suddenly your perspective on that whole spreadsheet thing starts to change.

[Tamara]

Jobs where having somebody vomit on you is considered a routine occupational hazard are right out, as far as I'm concerned. Nurse, cop, paramedic, cocktail waitress, parent...

[TCinVA]

Jobs where having somebody vomit on you is considered a routine occupational hazard are right out, as far as I'm concerned. Nurse, cop, paramedic, cocktail waitress, parent...

Just about every profession involves at least occasionally being covered in excrement. Sometimes only metaphorically, but it doesn't seem to ease the sting very much.

[Chuck Haggard]

Just about every profession involves at least occasionally being covered in excrement. Sometimes only metaphorically, but it doesn't seem to ease the sting very much.

It's worse when it's literal.

Seriously.

[jlw]

Heh. :D

That said, she's right at that age where a lot of folks have a pretty bad case of Jethro Bodine Syndrome, one day wanting to be a double-naught spy, the next day a brain surgeon, and the day after that a streetcar conductor. She may have wanted to be a cop when she said it. Who knows?

I'm just doing this until I decide what I want to be when I grow up.

[JodyH]

Maybe I'm old and jaded but I don't think she was duped and in the dark as to his history.
Just my gut feeling.

[s0nspark]

Character matters.

My sig would agree with you.

[rob_s]

Maybe I'm old and jaded but I don't think she was duped and in the dark as to his history.
Just my gut feeling.

She went in with eyes wide shut.

like most 20-something college girls are wont to do.

[5pins]

New video montage floating around, with clips of Cory juxtaposed with documents and Facebook/YouTube comments. Don't know how much is legit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XphvXVJh9s

Video removed by user.

[Pup town]

Video removed by user.

Hmm, did Cory hire a lawyer to send cease and desist letters?

[orionz06]

Hmm, did Cory hire a lawyer to send cease and desist letters?

Maybe, maybe not, but Facebook and YouTube will take crap down sometimes quite easily to avoid issue.

[Alpha Sierra]

That extreme rolling of the ballcap bill just makes him look like even more of an asshat

[Dagga Boy]

She went in with eyes wide shut.

like most 20-something college girls are wont to do.

It's as rampant with 20 something boys as well.

[LittleLebowski]

I hope this is over. I'm former Marine Corps Infantry and while mildly disgusted with this guy, I'm just not feeling the !OUTRAGE! that others are. Hopefully he finds gainful employment in order to take care of that baby.

[Tamara]

It's as rampant with 20 something boys as well.

I wasn't going to comment on the well-known propensity for sound relationship choices on the part of the denizens of Delta House. ;)

[Jay Cunningham]

I hope this is over. I'm former Marine Corps Infantry and while mildly disgusted with this guy, I'm just not feeling the !OUTRAGE! that others are. Hopefully he finds gainful employment in order to take care of that baby.

I also hope whatever this Two Minutes Hate thing is has run its course.

[s0nspark]

I hope this is over. I'm former Marine Corps Infantry and while mildly disgusted with this guy, I'm just not feeling the !OUTRAGE! that others are. Hopefully he finds gainful employment in order to take care of that baby.

I don't condone what he did at all ... but I do understand that not everyone finds it so easy to be transparent, especially when it comes to their failings.

Really, I just find the situation sad, especially for the others in his life it will affect.

[LittleLebowski]

Agreed with Jay C and S0nspark

[LittleLebowski]

I wasn't going to comment on the well-known propensity for sound relationship choices on the part of the denizens of Delta House. ;)

Criticizing Otter is walking on thin ice...... :D

[Tamara]

I also hope whatever this Two Minutes Hate thing is has run its course.

You know how the drama llama works: Can't stop without a new target.

[rob_s]

Good to see the PF contrarians are as predictable as ever.

Thanks for that. In an uncertain world...

[LittleLebowski]

Good to see the PF contrarians are as predictable as ever.

Thanks for that. In an uncertain world...

Nothing's keeping you from leaving, rob.

[Coyotesfan97]

Being a cop sounds like a lot of fun right up until you start talking seriously to people who have done it for a while. I wouldn't blame anybody for finding out what it's actually like and deciding they'd rather do something else.

There were four people who quit after the first day in my Academy class. The class Sergeant gave an honest but brutal lecture about what we were getting into.

[Tamara]

Good to see the PF contrarians are as predictable as ever.

Thanks for that. In an uncertain world...

Down with iconoclasm! :rolleyes:

[Morbidbattlecry]

I'm willing to forgive Erika for anything bad she may have done. Because she is hot. Is that wrong of me?

[BigT]

I'm willing to forgive Erika for anything bad she may have done. Because she is hot. Is that wrong of me?


No ,just normal functional heterosexual

[benq]

I'm willing to forgive Erika for anything bad she may have done. Because she is hot. Is that wrong of me?

Oh I think we(I) have forgiven far worse deeds done by women because of their "hotness" factor. And they know it and we(I) know it but we(I) still forgive. :)

[Eli]

New vid up on their channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyEB4wEyDSM

[GardoneVT]

New vid up on their channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyEB4wEyDSM

The video establishes that Cory Jackson has an enduring problem of being unable to abide by published regulations, be they the UCMJ or commercial zoning regs.

In the military, nothing and no body moves without generating paperwork. If this guy had a medical condition, where's the documentation? If I can produce a copy of my kittening shaving waiver right now, where the heck is his "mitrovavle prolapse" documentation? So far the only thing I've seen on paper proves he's lied about his background... as does Miss Maxwell's absence.

[Robert Mitchum]

"Chances are, you're a liar. Maybe not a big liar — but a liar nonetheless. That's the finding of Dan Ariely, a professor of psychology and behavioral economics at Duke University. He's run experiments with some 30,000 people and found that very few people lie a lot, but almost everyone lies a little".
JMO Corey is in the Lot club.....:D

[TGS]

Why is he still lying when documents concerning his absence and apprehension by police is already public? He's stating he's never claimed to be a vet, even though there are screenshots of him online calling himself an 11B and that he had deployed?

I don't know. Probably has to do with the same reason he's fidgeting and his eyes are darting around.

Pathological liar and a piece of shit.

[Shellback]

Probably has to do with the same reason he's fidgeting and his eyes are darting around.

Along with lowering his voice, touching his face, etc. He's a lying turd.

I'm with Gardone, every lil' booboo the Corpsman looked at is documented in your service records.

[jetfire]

If he was calmly staring straight ahead into the camera, you'd think he was a sociopath.

To clarify - he is very clearly uncomfortable in the video. I'd be a lot more concerned about his mental state if he was making all these statements with a complete sense of calm and no emotion, because that would mean he's a proper crazy person. Like, devoid of any sense of guilt whatsoever.

[45dotACP]

New vid up on their channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyEB4wEyDSM

Here we go again :rolleyes:

[s0nspark]

If he was calmly staring straight ahead into the camera, you'd think he was a sociopath.

To clarify - he is very clearly uncomfortable in the video. I'd be a lot more concerned about his mental state if he was making all these statements with a complete sense of calm and no emotion, because that would mean he's a proper crazy person. Like, devoid of any sense of guilt whatsoever.

Agreed ... but my problem with the vid is that he basically said "I didn't lie but someone may have lied on my behalf and I could have gotten mad and exaggerated the truth too." WTF?? How does that clarify anything? To me this came across like he is still digging a hole...

IMO he would have been better served by directly and truthfully addressing the paperwork.

[GardoneVT]

If he was calmly staring straight ahead into the camera, you'd think he was a sociopath.

To clarify - he is very clearly uncomfortable in the video. I'd be a lot more concerned about his mental state if he was making all these statements with a complete sense of calm and no emotion, because that would mean he's a proper crazy person. Like, devoid of any sense of guilt whatsoever.

His mannerisms aren't the centerpiece. If he posted paperwork saying he was medically discharged and a DD214 showing his discharge characterization , I'd consider the matter closed in his favor no matter his body language. Posting a vid saying "people like me at my range" when there's documented proof of an AWOL arrest in the public domain ain't it.

[jetfire]

I don't disagree with any if that, I'm just commenting on his body language.

[Don Gwinn]

Not that it would make a lot of difference to anyone in this case, but . . . the last page or two reads like people are applying professional training detecting dishonesty. Do those mannerisms change when a person is talking to a camera, rather than a face?

As for these trainers, I doubt the question of whether to spend money on them was likely to come up for me. I've only seen a couple of their videos from back when somebody posted one of Corey being taught a trigger-control drill that emphasized placement of the trigger finger. That video was valuable, and I liked it. And I'm not really all that outraged by the guy . . . but he's in a pretty competitive market. Much like Yeager, who arguably has more to offer, it's hard to think of a reason I'd lay out money to train with these people when Ernest Langdon (for example) is going to be a four-hour drive away in two months.

They could argue that this kind of resume-padding is minor, but as a sort of "average beginner shooter" I don't reach that question. It doesn't take something major to knock you off the list in a world where the best in the world make their living as traveling instructors.

[LittleLebowski]

I can't believe we have devoted so much space to this. Carry on.

[JV_]

I was just thinking the same thing.

[NEPAKevin]

Do those mannerisms change when a person is talking to a camera, rather than a face?



Microexpression theory probably would warrant of thread of its own. From my limited understanding, the reason they are considered valuable is that they are generated by the subconscious or "old brain" and have more to do with the way we are hard wired than external stimuli.

[Pup town]

I can't believe we have devoted so much space to this. Carry on.

I can believe it and I support devoting as much space as we want to it. While it's applaudable that you are above such a petty discussion and want to keep reminding us of that, keep in mind some people care about honesty more than others. This has struck a nerve with us that it didn't strike with you. That's ok. We don't have to agree.

Perhaps instead of subtly trying to squash discussion, you could advise Cory to come clean. The thread would have died out long ago if he had just said mea culpa.

[Jay Cunningham]

Dial it back Pup town.

[PPGMD]

I will say that I agree, if Corey came clean, and apologized it would've likely died down after that.

Within a short while it would've be business as usual because it isn't like he was banking on a secret squirrel background to get people to his channel or his range.

[GardoneVT]

I will say that I agree, if Corey came clean, and apologized it would've likely died down after that.

Within a short while it would've be business as usual because it isn't like he was banking on a secret squirrel background to get people to his channel or his range.
I'd disagree, only because he didn't lie about just having military experience vis a vis his instructor qualifications, but because he lied about how he left. He was arrested for desertion, not because of a medical problem. It's no different then if I'm hired at a bank and they find out I got canned at my last job for embezzling client funds. I'd be fired so fast you'd need a chrono to clock the speed.

Why should someone deal with an unethical instructor when there's people who will teach you to shoot that aren't lying kittenbags? Coincidentally, those instructors also know how to read a zoning regulation and follow it. That's why Cory07ink is about to stand for "Cory's Chapter 7 Liquidation ".

[JV_]

keep in mind some people care about honesty more than others.The surprise about the length of this thread is not about whether we care about honesty, it's about devoting a lot of cycles to a YouTube instructor. He's a nobody.

[Alpha Sierra]

At the end of the day, these are my bets:

1. This guy will never own up to his past
2. The local low level gun crowd in his neck of the woods will continue to think he's hot crap
3. He will continue to use his GF as eye candy to attract attention
4. Some low level trainers will continue to hold classes at his new location ($ talks, BS walks)
5. I will never waste a dime on his offerings

[Jay Cunningham]

I just found out that the ARFCom thread on this topic is 85 pages.

[saints75]

I just found out that the ARFCom thread on this topic is 85 pages.

AR15.com?? I have no life so I have been following this. Last night they were up to 87 pages talking about his guy. Here is the link,

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1641184_Range_Time_with_Cory_and_Erika.html&page=87

I really need to get a life lol

[Alpha Sierra]

I just found out that the ARFCom thread on this topic is 85 pages.

Damn you, there goes my evening/whole night........

ETA I made it through 4 pages before I tapped out......

[John Hearne]

I think ARF is a perfect place for the continued discussion of this.

https://forum-s3.pinside.com/201311/1239538/152702.jpg

Just sayin.....

[LittleLebowski]

https://forum-s3.pinside.com/201311/1239538/152702.jpg

Just sayin.....

Agreed.