APD revamps pistol training

[jlw]

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/26134222/apd-revamps-pistol-training

One of the Atlanta TV stations did a story on the APD revamping their firearms training. The video contains more info than the text that goes along with it.

The short story is that they did away with open range days in favor of structured training. The story mentions personnel complaints, but the story claims a significant reduction in failure rates on the quals.

My personal take is that I agree with their approach as I did something similar here. Structured and supervised training is more bang for the buck even though it costs more.

[David Armstrong]

My experience with the open range days is that the guys would tend to practice the stuff they were already good at and ignore the stuff they had trouble with. So when qual time came, the problems were still problems. I agree, structured training programs give better results for most.

[Tamara]

My info's all twenty years out of date and anecdotal, but this seems to be very much a change for the better.

[jnc36rcpd]

When ammunition was plentiful and relatively cheap, we authorized a box a month for officers to shoot on their own. While I'm sure there was some benefit, I'm not sure how much. We're now considering shooting clinics as a replacement to the free ammo.

[HeadHunter]

Here's the original story. http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/26134222/apd-revamps-pistol-training

There are a number of holes in it.

"A new target." What does that mean?
Is the course of fire the same? Atlanta in the past used a modified version of the GA Semi-Auto Course. Is it still the same?
Were the officers who were coming to range day the ones who were failing the qual? If not, then they probably weren't 'practicing bad habits.' My guess and bet is that the officers who were failing were the ones who weren't coming out to range day.

The overall pass rate on the qual course MAY be up. Does that mean that removing the range day has improved the weighted average of qual scores? I don't know and I bet they don't either.

It looks to me more like a budget allocation issue than a real improvement in skill development, except perhaps at the lowest end of the totem pole.

[Ifightcrime]

My department has approximately 2k sworn deputies. We have currently offered a practice day with free ammo to practice to qualification course. We have yet to have over 20 shooters on any given day. We normally have the same 10-15. They practice the Department CoF and most do well during the qualification, but this does not prepare them for a gun fight.

I would love to change this to a defined drill of the month. Perhaps even set-up Officer Involved Shootings for the troops to "walk a mile in the shoes". Have any of you been able to implement a decent practice/range day for their troops?

Stay Sharp & Stay Safe!

[Beat Trash]

We're just south of 1,000 officers. The officers can come out at lunch time when students actually attending training that day are at lunch. The officers can shoot using department ammo. I have to admit that very few take advantage of this. And the majority of officers who do aren't getting much out of it. They just are creating empty brass.

We have officers respond out twice a year. Once for qualification and the second day is an 8 hr block titled firearms familiarization. Half of that day is given to riot training, so the officers might actually see 3 hrs on the range. The staff honestly attempt to change it up each year by setting various different tactical drills. I think the biggest challenge for an agency is dealing with the lack of interest by many officers. Especially if an officer, due to their assignment and amount of time on the job, haven't yet to encounter an armed suspect who doesn't want to play nice.

It may be hard for non-LEO's on this site to comprehend, but the majority of officers are not "Gun People", and have little to no interest in the training.

I really like the concept of setting up previous OIS incidents for the officers to run through. But the issue I can see is you won't be able to replicate the stress and the lighting conditions. So what you will have is a bunch of poor shooters going through the re-enactment on a bright sunny day with no one really trying to kill them, and making shots that the actual officer involved in the OIS missed. This may become an issue as trash talking can become a huge issue for the officer actually involved in the OIS incident who is trying to recover and come back. It could also have the potential to be used against your agency be used by civil litigation attorneys.

[Trooper224]

The old adage about leading a horse to water really applies in law enforcement. I've lost count of the number of our personnel who dread qualification and show up with comments like, "I'll tell you right now I don't want to be here." Every quarter several make up days have to be scheduled to get everyone qualified, as they'll use any number of cute excuses to avoid it. When you're working with attitudes like that all the cool delta seal ninja jedi operator training in the world is just a waste of time. Once I was driving down the highway in the rain when the rangemaster called me to let me know range had been canceled. I asked, "Why?" "Because it's raining." My reply........."So what? Clench your knees up so your mangina doesn't get wet and let's go shoot." Of course that's probably why I don't get to instruct anymore, I'm just a hurter of feelings. ;)

[Lon]

When I read these threads, I mentally thank God for working where I do. My agency is very progressive in our training. While I wish we had more money for ammo, we still manage to do some sort of firearms/DT/tactics training about 8-10 months outta the year. General firearms, FoF, shooting in and around vehicles, officer rescue, active shooter, traffic stops, you name it, we try to incorporate it into our training program. We try to keep a firm grounding in weapons manipulation but we definitely stress our guys in FoF a couple times a year (usually).

We only have 46 sworn so it's easier to get everyone through the training than if we were a huge agency.

[Chuck Haggard]

We used to have a very cutting edge training program locally. It takes very little for the wrong boss to shut hard working guys down.

[Lon]

Yep. I sometimes wonder how Chiefs come to believe that slashing a training budget is a good thing. I gotta hand it to my Chief, when budget issues made money tight, we never stopped training.

Another thing I've noticed that I think will be a problem in the future deals with the new generation of officers. Eventually, me and my co-instructors are going to retire and I'm concerned that the younger guys won't keep the program up to the standards we have set. A lot of our young guys like to come to training, but they don't want to put in all the extra hours (many unpaid) that are necessary to make the training a success. Some do have the drive and desire, and I try to cultivate that mentality when I find it.