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NickA
07-08-2011, 02:39 PM
On the way back from lunch today I noticed a patrol car with no less than 9 antennae on top. Not sure if that's common, never paid attention before. Can any of you LEO's enlighten me as to what they're for?

Coyotesfan97
07-08-2011, 04:11 PM
9 is a lot. My SUV has four along with the GPS locator. Two are for the transmit/receive for the DXT. One for the radio. One for the heat alarm to my portable unit on my vest.

If I had a Lo Jack unit for finding stolen vehicles in my car that would add another four. Maybe a cell phone antenna and multiple radios in the car you saw.

NickA
07-08-2011, 04:40 PM
Thanks..this was in a shady part of town and close to a military base so I guess lowjack or extra radios would make sense. I'm always fascinated by the minutiae of the gear LEO and mil guys use.

jlw
07-08-2011, 04:56 PM
Our LoJack unit has four antennae.

We are switching to digital radio in partnership with several surrounding counties, but the remaining counties in our area will be staying on VHF. That means two radio
antennae on each unit; so, a unit with a LoJack is already up to six right there.

Shellback
07-08-2011, 05:24 PM
Look for discreet forward firing cameras along with side and rear ones as well. I went on a ride along with my buddy in their department's license plate reading SUV and that thing looked like a frickin' porcupine! Really cool technology where it reads your plate and pops up all the info super fast.

JM Campbell
07-09-2011, 09:41 AM
A buddy of mine at a repo co use this tech in two cars to troll the roads all day looking for new biz. It is amazing stuff and it is fast as heck.

Nick, that unit you saw was probably equipped with the LowJack recovery system, I've installed LJ for two years. Cool system but there are better ones on the market now that are GPS sat trackable with real time info. LJ relies on a radio signal and has a limited distance to be received.

shep854
07-09-2011, 03:55 PM
Reading a thread like makes me all the more hopeful that the users are of good character--the opportunities for abuse are scary.
----
Hm. Down here in Alabama, the State Troopers drive gray Suburbans and Chargers*. Private citizens (LEOs are "civilians" also ;) ) can buy the same makes in the same color--I've slowed down a number of times when I've seen such a Charger or Surburban on the road.
*"Marked" vehicles have blue doors with "State Trooper" markings and special tags. From the front, its hard to tell, so any gray vehicle gets instant respect.

JM Campbell
07-09-2011, 04:54 PM
In my AO in Texas they are really sneeky, NickA can attest to that. But I see no harm at all in it, I'm a good civy and do not cross the grey line and drive in a way to not direct attention to myself. Now 7-8 years ago...that's another story with hotrods and testosterone.

jslaker
07-09-2011, 05:40 PM
Reading a thread like makes me all the more hopeful that the users are of good character--the opportunities for abuse are scary.
----
Hm. Down here in Alabama, the State Troopers drive gray Suburbans and Chargers*. Private citizens (LEOs are "civilians" also ;) ) can buy the same makes in the same color--I've slowed down a number of times when I've seen such a Charger or Surburban on the road.
*"Marked" vehicles have blue doors with "State Trooper" markings and special tags. From the front, its hard to tell, so any gray vehicle gets instant respect.

Georgia State Patrol drives silver Chargers with orange lettering that's hard to distinguish from a distance. Personally, I find it somewhat irritating; I generally try to obey traffic laws these days, unlike my teenage years, but something about camoflauged LE vehicles just strikes me as distasteful.

I find the navy and white Crown Vics of the local PD comforting, but something about the semi incognito GSP cars just makes me uncomfortable.

NickA
07-09-2011, 05:56 PM
In my AO in Texas they are really sneeky, NickA can attest to that. But I see no harm at all in it, I'm a good civy and do not cross the grey line and drive in a way to not direct attention to myself. Now 7-8 years ago...that's another story with hotrods and testosterone.
There's a Camaro that operates around my workplace, no external lights, it's grey or silver and the markings are a different shade of grey. I know I've also seen light black markings on a black Crown Vic, pretty sure that's part of the group that targets aggressive drivers so I don't have a problem with it.

JM Campbell
07-09-2011, 07:11 PM
There's a Camaro that operates around my workplace, no external lights, it's grey or silver and the markings are a different shade of grey. I know I've also seen light black markings on a black Crown Vic, pretty sure that's part of the group that targets aggressive drivers so I don't have a problem with it.

I know of a few chargers...good friend thrashed them...ummm QC-ed them. Tahoes, F-150s, and a few F-250s are out there, sneaky sure but if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

LOKNLOD
07-09-2011, 07:56 PM
sneaky sure but if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

Understand where you're coming from, but I don't imagine any of us would be too happy to hear that line of reasoning applied to gun registration, constant GPS tracking your car, or video surveillance of your house.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

VolGrad
07-09-2011, 08:35 PM
Georgia State Patrol drives silver Chargers with orange lettering ....
GSP has all sorts of color combos. I can't for the life of me figure out why they are so NON-uniform in their colors or markings. The orange letters look like something they purchased at Home Depot and put on themselves ... very random.

JM Campbell
07-09-2011, 08:55 PM
Understand where you're coming from, but I don't imagine any of us would be too happy to hear that line of reasoning applied to gun registration, constant GPS tracking your car, or video surveillance of your house.

I agree with you fully, I was pertaining only to that situation. If I recall correctly we had a vote on it.

jlw
07-09-2011, 08:57 PM
Georgia State Patrol drives silver Chargers with orange lettering that's hard to distinguish from a distance. Personally, I find it somewhat irritating; I generally try to obey traffic laws these days, unlike my teenage years, but something about camoflauged LE vehicles just strikes me as distasteful.

I find the navy and white Crown Vics of the local PD comforting, but something about the semi incognito GSP cars just makes me uncomfortable.


GSP has all sorts of color combos. I can't for the life of me figure out why they are so NON-uniform in their colors or markings. The orange letters look like something they purchased at Home Depot and put on themselves ... very random.

The blue and silver paint scheme is actually written into state law that it can only be used by the GSP on a patrol car.

Historically, the GSP used orange lettering. At some point they switched to silver, and a few years ago there was a move to go back to the orange.

They have begun to incorporate solid color vehicles into their fleet.

Two-tone paint schemes actually cost several thousands of dollars more than a single color scheme. This is why some agencies are dropping two-tone schemes. My
agency used to special order brown cars. We have switched to black.

ToddG
07-10-2011, 08:20 AM
Using unmarked cars for traffic enforcement should be illegal. This is doubly true in those places where the officer operating the unmarked unit is not in uniform. A guy in civilian clothes coming out of a Dodge Charger with a couple of flashing LEDs in his grille is not automatically and necessarily a cop in my book...

Tamara
07-10-2011, 08:32 AM
Using unmarked cars for traffic enforcement should be illegal. This is doubly true in those places where the officer operating the unmarked unit is not in uniform. A guy in civilian clothes coming out of a Dodge Charger with a couple of flashing LEDs in his grille is not automatically and necessarily a cop in my book...

It is illegal in Georgia.

It's been a few years, but IIRC, a car on traffic duty must be marked with the name of the operating agency in letters of a contrasting color at least six inches high on both doors and decklid. Also, only staties can pull you for less than ten over using radar or laser; locals need to pace you if they want to write you a three-over revenue enhancement ticket. My personal theory behind this is that some cop in Between (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Between,_Georgia) pulled over the wrong UGA alumnus on the way to a Dawgs game.

jlw
07-10-2011, 09:43 AM
Using unmarked cars for traffic enforcement should be illegal. This is doubly true in those places where the officer operating the unmarked unit is not in uniform. A guy in civilian clothes coming out of a Dodge Charger with a couple of flashing LEDs in his grille is not automatically and necessarily a cop in my book...


It is illegal in Georgia.

It's been a few years, but IIRC, a car on traffic duty must be marked with the name of the operating agency in letters of a contrasting color at least six inches high on both doors and decklid. Also, only staties can pull you for less than ten over using radar or laser; locals need to pace you if they want to write you a three-over revenue enhancement ticket. My personal theory behind this is that some cop in Between (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Between,_Georgia) pulled over the wrong UGA alumnus on the way to a Dawgs game.

Four inch letters on three sides is the law.

Here is an article I wrote on speed detection in GA:

http://chiefweems.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/notes-on-speed-detection/


On another note: getting a traffic ticket on the way to a Dawgs game should double the points and fine, and I say this being a UGA grad.

JM Campbell
07-10-2011, 10:16 AM
Here is a news story on that Camaro Nick. Along with some other unmarked cars...

http://www.ksat.com/news/23715268/detail.html

Tamara
07-10-2011, 10:20 AM
Four inch letters on three sides is the law.

Here is an article I wrote on speed detection in GA:

Thanks! Like I said, it's been quite a few years since I had someone explain it to me. :o

(ETA: It was back in '93 or so, and DeKalb County had taken to running some slick-top Tauruses with silver lettering on a powder-blue metallic background. I asked a friend I knew who was with the Canton city po-po about this, and got a lengthy discourse on traffic enforcement arcana...)

jslaker
07-10-2011, 12:03 PM
Using unmarked cars for traffic enforcement should be illegal. This is doubly true in those places where the officer operating the unmarked unit is not in uniform. A guy in civilian clothes coming out of a Dodge Charger with a couple of flashing LEDs in his grille is not automatically and necessarily a cop in my book...


It is illegal in Georgia.

It's been a few years, but IIRC, a car on traffic duty must be marked with the name of the operating agency in letters of a contrasting color at least six inches high on both doors and decklid. Also, only staties can pull you for less than ten over using radar or laser; locals need to pace you if they want to write you a three-over revenue enhancement ticket. My personal theory behind this is that some cop in Between (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Between,_Georgia) pulled over the wrong UGA alumnus on the way to a Dawgs game.


Four inch letters on three sides is the law.

Here is an article I wrote on speed detection in GA:

http://chiefweems.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/notes-on-speed-detection/


On another note: getting a traffic ticket on the way to a Dawgs game should double the points and fine, and I say this being a UGA grad.

These are the GSP cars I was complaining about:

http://members.fortunecity.com/rwcar4q/gsp131.jpg

I've seen some without the front brush guard. In bright sunlight, the orange fades into the silver and is nearly impossible to actually see from a distance. With the internal lightbars, it is very, very difficult to distinguish a GSP car from a distance.

This all meets the letter of the law, but is really side stepping the spirit of it, IMO. I don't like it at all.

Tamara
07-10-2011, 12:29 PM
This all meets the letter of the law, but is really side stepping the spirit of it, IMO. I don't like it at all.

Having grown up and learned to drive in Georgia, seeing unmarked cars doing traffic enforcement in other states just feels like dirty pool to me. My Volunteer and Hoosier friends all find my knee-jerk reaction to it rather amusing. I guess it's just what you're used to.

I know that in Indiana officers have to be uniformed or in a marked car to be doing traffic stops; as per Todd's comment, this is just good sense for everybody's safety.

jlw
07-10-2011, 02:54 PM
You could paint the cars in a neon color with and have the blues on and people will still speed right on by and then be amazed they got stopped.

We have put in the paper, sent out text message alerts, and put up flashing signs along the road that we were up ahead running speed detection and still write ticket
books full of tickets, and we typically don't write a ticket until 15mph over the posted limit.

Shellback
07-10-2011, 03:04 PM
The Valentine 1 has saved me lots of $$$ :cool:

Tamara
07-10-2011, 03:12 PM
The Valentine 1 has saved me lots of $$$ :cool:

The end of the 55mph National Maximum Speed Limit saved me lots of $$$.

80 in a 55 is a ticket pretty much anywhere you go, but it's gotta be a pretty slow day at the Krispy Kreme to get written for ten over. ;)

VolGrad
07-10-2011, 04:05 PM
My personal theory behind this is that some cop in Between (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Between,_Georgia) pulled over the wrong UGA alumnus on the way to a Dawgs game.
My office had a GSP officer come do a driving safety session for our field staff a few years ago and he told how the whole thing came to be. I don't recall it exactly but it was something to the effect of a state legislator's wife was pulled over by a GSP running in a slick-top patrol car. She didn't think it was fair so the legislator made a big stink about it in the next session. jlweems will know the details better than I but I think there's something in the law about stating a slick-top patrol car can still be used if it was made prior to X year ... sort of a grandfather clause for agencies that had already made a significant investment. Based on whatever the X year was I doubt any agency still has cars in their fleet that would be allowed.

John Hearne
07-10-2011, 06:13 PM
FWIW, the slicktop is better for everyone except chronic speeders. First, the light setups are safer than rooftop light bars. Second, they are significantly more fuel efficient and save tax payer money. Third, the officer doesn't have to listen to annoying wind noise from the light bar.

LOKNLOD
07-10-2011, 06:50 PM
First, the light setups are safer than rooftop light bars.

How so? Safer in a rollover, safer in another way?

jlw
07-10-2011, 07:54 PM
My office had a GSP officer come do a driving safety session for our field staff a few years ago and he told how the whole thing came to be. I don't recall it exactly but it was something to the effect of a state legislator's wife was pulled over by a GSP running in a slick-top patrol car. She didn't think it was fair so the legislator made a big stink about it in the next session. jlweems will know the details better than I but I think there's something in the law about stating a slick-top patrol car can still be used if it was made prior to X year ... sort of a grandfather clause for agencies that had already made a significant investment. Based on whatever the X year was I doubt any agency still has cars in their fleet that would be allowed.

The markings requirement was in place prior to the whole slicktop thing coming about. The slicktop issue arose after a member of the legislature was busted for speeding by a trooper. The law that was passed called for a "roof mounted light". Well cops being cops interpreted that "roof mounted" didn't specify which side of the roof to which the light must be mounted. So, now it is common to see patrol cars with no lights mounted on the exterior car but with a light bar running across the top of the windshield mounted to the roof inside of the car. This has not been challenged.

Also, the actual code section doesn't nullify a ticket written by a cop driving a slicktop. The code section simply says that a slicktop can't be used for traffic enforcement; so, some agencies simply renamed their traffic units to something else...

NickA
07-10-2011, 08:03 PM
Here is a news story on that Camaro Nick. Along with some other unmarked cars...

http://www.ksat.com/news/23715268/detail.html

That's the one alright. Not sure how I feel about the markings issue; in truth all you usually see is the front of the car when you get pulled over, and markings aren't all
that visible anyway.
On the other hand I see Todd's point- it's so common in Mexico that it's not even funny, definitely conceivable it could happen here.

Tamara
07-10-2011, 08:44 PM
FWIW, the slicktop is better for everyone except chronic speeders. First, the light setups are safer than rooftop light bars. Second, they are significantly more fuel efficient and save tax payer money. Third, the officer doesn't have to listen to annoying wind noise from the light bar.

Okay, the fuel mileage thing is self-explanatory, and I once did a ride-along in a friend's Dodge Diplomat with the canoe on the roof (yeah, yeah, I just dated myself... :o ) and it sounded like there was a banshee in the car any time we got up to freeway speeds, but I'm curious about the "safer" thing. I mean, I've seen one old-skool incandescent light bar come loose and deposit itself square in the right-hand lane, but what are the other safety concerns? :confused:

John Hearne
07-10-2011, 08:55 PM
How so? Safer in a rollover, safer in another way?

The hard numbers come from the Illinois State Police. Back in the late 90's they ran a small fleet of slick top cars. They wanted to see how the improved fuel economy was offset by the increased accident rate. They were very surprised to find that the slick tops had a lower accident rate and better fuel economy.

The current thinking is that high mounted lights create an optical illusion that the lights are further away than they actually are. Because people think they are further away they don't slow down as much or as soon. There is a whole art and science to building a properly equipped patrol car. You have to consider things like flash patterns versus flash rates, lots of small lights or fewer "big" lights, etc.

This is the writeup on my current car whose days are numbered:
http://www.elightbars.org/f34/my-last-install-8214/

Tamara
07-10-2011, 09:13 PM
The current thinking is that high mounted lights create an optical illusion that the lights are further away than they actually are. Because people think they are further away they don't slow down as much or as soon.

Ahhhh...

Yup. Didn't stop to think about the whole "moth-to-flame" effect and stopped cruisers on the side of the road.

Incidentally, my roomie and I were just discussing how much of an improvement the LED lights were the other day for this very same reason...

ToddG
07-11-2011, 07:02 AM
You could paint the cars in a neon color with and have the blues on and people will still speed right on by and then be amazed they got stopped.

I won't relay the whole story as many here have heard it multiple times before, but I can certainly attest to the above. I was once pulled over for doing 120-something in a 45 after I flashed the high beams multiple times to get the marked patrol car -- which I didn't realize was a marked patrol car -- out of the fast lane. When the marked patrol car failed to yield, I floored the gas and sped past in the right lane. A few seconds later, though, it became really really obvious that was a marked patrol car. Got a verbal warning for that one. :cool:

mnealtx
07-11-2011, 08:09 AM
A *verbal*? For 80+ over?

Did you stop at the next convenience store and buy a powerball ticket, too? :p

JM Campbell
07-11-2011, 08:14 AM
Officer got 2 free courses :)

I kid, I kid.:p

ToddG
07-11-2011, 08:22 AM
A *verbal*? For 80+ over?

I'm just a very likable guy in person? :cool:

mnealtx
07-11-2011, 09:17 AM
I'm just a very likable guy in person? :cool:

His hands were shaking too badly to write the ticket? ;)

jlw
07-11-2011, 10:35 AM
I won't relay the whole story as many here have heard it multiple times before, but I can certainly attest to the above. I was once pulled over for doing 120-something in a 45 after I flashed the high beams multiple times to get the marked patrol car -- which I didn't realize was a marked patrol car -- out of the fast lane. When the marked patrol car failed to yield, I floored the gas and sped past in the right lane. A few seconds later, though, it became really really obvious that was a marked patrol car. Got a verbal warning for that one. :cool:


LOL. I bet that left a mark.

My patrol vehicle has "SHERIFF" lettered across the back of it, but people still blow past me and then act amazed when I light them up.

NickA
07-11-2011, 11:19 AM
I'm just a very likable guy in person? :cool:
And a hell of a smooth talker apparently. I'd STILL be in jail.

Al T.
07-12-2011, 07:59 AM
Got a verbal warning for that one.

Screw the firearm teaching gig, figure out how to teach that skill and you'll be a millionaire.

On a slightly different note, around here the thugs are buying used Crown Vics. I have not been ticketed for years, but suspect I'll be pretty wary if an unmarked tries to pull me over.

grimel
07-16-2011, 10:41 PM
Using unmarked cars for traffic enforcement should be illegal. This is doubly true in those places where the officer operating the unmarked unit is not in uniform. A guy in civilian clothes coming out of a Dodge Charger with a couple of flashing LEDs in his grille is not automatically and necessarily a cop in my book...

+ 1 billion. We've had several instances of worthless pukes putting flashing blue lights in the grill of their local PD copy car pulling folks over for less than legal reasons. Some have even worn similar looking uniforms (a couple of the local rent-a-cop agencies have uniforms that are very hard to distinguish from local police especially for people that don't regularly deal with uniformed officers.

grimel
07-16-2011, 10:48 PM
The hard numbers come from the Illinois State Police. Back in the late 90's they ran a small fleet of slick top cars. They wanted to see how the improved fuel economy was offset by the increased accident rate. They were very surprised to find that the slick tops had a lower accident rate and better fuel economy.

The current thinking is that high mounted lights create an optical illusion that the lights are further away than they actually are. Because people think they are further away they don't slow down as much or as soon. There is a whole art and science to building a properly equipped patrol car. You have to consider things like flash patterns versus flash rates, lots of small lights or fewer "big" lights, etc.

This is the writeup on my current car whose days are numbered:
http://www.elightbars.org/f34/my-last-install-8214/

So, why don't they turn down the intensity at night? Everything I've read or been told in defensive driving classes says it is absurdly common for drunks/idiots to drive straight into cruisers with the lights flashing like the moth to the flame.

And people like me (light sensitive) would greatly appreciate not being blinded by the lights as we pass.;)

grimel
07-16-2011, 10:54 PM
You could paint the cars in a neon color with and have the blues on and people will still speed right on by and then be amazed they got stopped.


I was in traffic court for a busted tail light while a woman was arguing (with her lawyer) the officer was at fault because he pulled out in front of her. Never mind it was a construction zone with a 25 mph speed limit or the sign cautioning the rolling road block or the officer had his flashing lights on or she was going 45 when she rear ended the cruiser. Yes, she rear ended a cruiser in a construction zone.