Shooting FMJ after lead?

[MGW]

Serious question folks. What precautions should I take if shooting lead and FMJ through the same revolver? Growing up I was told to never shoot a jacketed round through a revolver after shooting lead unless all traces of lead were removed first. Is this fact or fiction?

[LSP972]

Fiction... unless you were shooting gun show reloads using soft lead bullets loaded over 2400 powder.

IOW, there is some truth to this if the revolver barrel and cylinder is HEAVILY leaded. Of course, there is the pesky problem of defining the term heavily. Basically, heavy build-up of lead residue (which, in effect, reduces bore/cylinder diameter) is "squeezed" by FMJ bullets and can cause a pressure spike. But the amount needed to damage a well-made revolver would be pretty dramatic. BTW, this could also happen with a bottom-feeder, too.

But the "Remove All Traces!!!!!" caveat... pure wive's tale.

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[hufnagel]

I was once told that shooting FMJ after lead bullets was a good idea, as it cleans out the bore, especially on a traditional land and groove setup.
not sure about that one though.

[LSP972]

I was once told that shooting FMJ after lead bullets was a good idea, as it cleans out the bore, especially on a traditional land and groove setup.
not sure about that one though.

Actually, there might be a bit of truth in that one as well.

I used to compete in our monthly "outlaw IPSC" match up in Bastrop with my issue M-66, using mid-range .38s loaded with cast LSWC bullets a local fellow produced. We're talking Alox bullet lube and Unique powder here, loaded on an RCBS Green Machine, if that gives you any idea how long ago this was; IOW, the revolver became filthy/nasty after 100 rounds. It was a real chore to get it clean to my satisfaction before going back to work. Someone told me about that "trick". Now, keep in mind that the nastiness of the gun was due more to powder/bullet lube residue than lead residue; the guy cast these bullets from a wheelweight/linotype alloy, so they were pretty hard and I wasn't pushing them fast at all.

But I tried putting a few "magnums" (.357 JHP duty rounds) through the gun at the end of the match, and the clean-up effort SEEMED to be a bit easier... emphasis on seemed. It was probably wishful thinking on my part...:D

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[JAD]

A buddy ringed a 226 barrel this way, we think. Gun shot fine except lead bullets would keyhole.

[LSP972]

A buddy ringed a 226 barrel this way, we think.

I'd pretty much bet large that was due to a squib (stuck bullet). I've seen several of these on P226 pistols, and had it occur on #1 grandson's Beretta 92.

One of the P226s kept on shooting fine; the other immediately began to malfunction, as the bulge was in the right place to snag on the slide bushing and inhibit slide movement to the rear.

FWIW, the Beretta suffered no malfs nor accuracy loss. I bought the kid a new barrel, but we still have the bulged one and it still shoots both lead and jacketed bullets quite accurately.

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[JAD]

Could be. Both conditions (reloads, lots of 1200 fps lead without cleaning) were present.

[jetfire]

Pretty much what everyone else has said. If you're shooting soft lead bullets at high velocity through your burner, and you shoot them a lot, it's probably a good idea to clean that sucker before you switch to FMJ/JHP ammo. But if it's just a box or two of factory stuff for practice and you want to switch, it'll be fine.

I have some guns that like lead, so I shoot lead, others like JHP or FMJ so I shoot that.

[NETim]

On the other hand, I've been told that shooting lead on top of copper fouling causes lead to stick even more.

????? :confused:

[MGW]

Thanks for the info all.

LSP, I use to help my dad cast bullets using the same lead recipe you described. We did switch to a Dillon and factory full wad cutters when out round count exceeded our willingness to smelt lead though.


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[LSP972]

Yeah, bullet casting is one of those side-tracks I never had the slightest interest in pursuing. Helping friends do it was enough to convince me of that.

And of course, bottom feeders are happier with FMJ anyway; and since I stopped competing with a revolver in 1991, my revolver shooting has been much less. I still load .38 Specials, but they are bunny farts for less-painful practice with a Ti-Scan snubby; and I use whatever-is-the-cheapest FMJ or JHP bullet I can find, to minimize the clean-up as much as possible.

I still have memories of a bunch of my fellow State Police Academy classmates and I using an electric drill to speed up the time required to clean our revolvers after a days' training (many hundreds of rounds) using those really dirty .38 reloads provided to us. Fired in our .357-chambered revolvers, they left one hell of a lead ring in the 1/10th of an inch between the case mouth and chamber step in the revolver charge holes, and those were a cast-iron beotch to get out. We would have sold our children for a couple of those stainless .38/.357 chamber brushes Brownell's sells nowadays. Those puppies WORK.

Ken (LSP552) went through the class prior to mine, so I imagine he remembers those dark days as well...:cool:

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[jetfire]

I still use an electric drill to clean revo cylinders.

[TR675]

I heard on the internet that was a good way to ruin a revolver.

[jetfire]

I heard on the internet that was a good way to ruin a revolver.

I believe you could ruin a gun doing that if you were sloppy and careless. Or didn't use a nylon brush.

[LSP972]

You remember the aluminum cleaning rods that used to come with S&W revolvers? The ones with a simple loop bent into one end, with the straight end carrying female threads?

Cut the loop off, and you have a dandy extended brush holder. The aluminum is softer than the cylinder steel, so if you do manage to rub against/score/etc. the sides of the charge holes… no problemo. And we used bronze brushes.

The people who goon up their revolvers cleaning them with a drill are using steel rods, or are trying to do the barrel too.

One other thing; keep the yoke in place if you haven't completely disassembled the cylinder. Otherwise, you stand a good chance of getting some bristles into the cylinder's center interior, caught up between the ejector spring and the center pin. Bad juju down the road…

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[TR675]

I believe you could ruin a gun doing that if you were sloppy and careless. Or didn't use a nylon brush.

Serious question. How about a bronze brush? I used to use one in an electric drill in a gp100 based on guns store advice before I got nervous about it.

Beats me if it ever did any harm or not - were my revo's charge holes that rough looking before I started doing that? Who knows, it's a Ruger, but it sure was easier to clean that way.

[Chuck Haggard]

I've seen two guns ruined by shooting jacketed after lead, one a model 66 and the other a Glock 17


I have never seen the need to use a drill on a wheelgun, or any other gun frankly, and I have shot a ton of lead through several of mine over the years.

[rsa-otc]

Lewis Lead remover anyone. I have found that to be a god send. I will say it's still a #$&@ to get rid of the .10 ring in 357 chambers after shooting a ton of plain lead 38s. It's one of the reasons that unless I can't find anything else I will only shoot plated or high tech coated bullets now a days.

I have used the drill trick once years ago when doing the company's inventory annual inspection & cleaning. We used bronze brushes in a cordless drill with the speed dialed way back. I noticed no damage to the chambers.

Today if I come across a particularly hard to remove deposit I will liberally apply a bore cleaning solution, let it sit, use the Lewis Lead remover and then finish up with a patch made up from one of those lead removing cloths on the end of a tight fitting jag. Seems to really get the job done.

[LSP972]

I have never seen the need to use a drill on a wheelgun...

Well, we did. And we managed to not ruin any revolvers.

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[TR675]

Lewis Lead remover anyone.

Had one, used it, the head broke off inside a charge hole. I think the rubber head was too large, it was an SOB to get it through the holes even with the tension screw backed all the way out. N of 1 and all that, lots of people sing their praises and it did what it was supposed to, albeit being a PITA before it broke.

[LSP972]

Lewis Lead remover anyone.

Indeed. And once I discovered that gadget, life became a lot easier.

But remember that my "drilling days" were as a basic student who was handling revolvers for the first time. Between my dad and the army, I had been weaned on semi-auto pistols. Our instruction at the Academy was little more than "This is a revolver; the bullets come out of this end. There's targets and ammo; go forth and do well." They darn sure said zip about how to clean a revolver; properly or otherwise. So we managed as best we could.

The BEST way to remove stubborn leading is with mercury; which dissolves lead in a blink. Of course, the hazards of that are legion, not to mention the stuff is difficult to obtain (and CONtain). But it sure works…;)

Anyway, this discussion is why I mainly stick to jacketed bullets for my limited revolver shooting these days. Its just easier all-around.

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[Chuck Haggard]

Well, we did. And we managed to not ruin any revolvers.

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Not sayin you did. I never needed to resort to one.

[Robinson]

Lewis Lead remover anyone.

That's what I used when I was shooting a lot of lead bullets. I always thought it was pretty easy to use and did a good job.

Nowadays I usually shoot jacketed ammo for practice even though I carry lead in my revolvers. I've sorta been thinking about trying to find a good jacketed alternative to 158gr LSWCHP+P that shoots to the same point of aim.

[MGW]

Tested my new 442 Pro yesterday. 130gr WWB and Winchester PDX1 +P shot very close to point of aim for me yesterday out to 50 yards. Well, at 50 yards it was point of 10" plate one out of every five shots or so anyway.

Didn't bring any lead to compare.

[jetfire]

Serious question. How about a bronze brush? I used to use one in an electric drill in a gp100 based on guns store advice before I got nervous about it.

Beats me if it ever did any harm or not - were my revo's charge holes that rough looking before I started doing that? Who knows, it's a Ruger, but it sure was easier to clean that way.

I've used bronze brushes with no issues before, but a nylon one makes me feel better about myself.

[LSP972]

If you've got a bad "wadcutter ring" (discussed in post #11), you'll be there until the cows come home using a nylon brush.

Anything softer than the cylinder steel will be fine; and you can get pretty ignorant on a stainless cylinder, because they don't mar easily.

But you REALLY gotta avoid getting stray bristles inside the center section of the cylinder.

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[okie john]

Once upon a time, I had David Clements build me a couple of 5-shot Ruger Bisleys in 45 Colt. They'd run a 350-grain SWC at an honest 1,400 fps, with no shortage of fouling until I got my bullet alloy worked out. The best way to get rid of it was to use a Chore Boy pot scrubber (http://www.midlandhardware.com/282566.html?gclid=CNfN4dmz1b8CFYlefgodWTcAkw#.U8yB BIBdX8g). Basically, its a big roll of loose cooper mesh with a heavy-duty staple on each end. Cut the staples off with a pair of game shears and it will unroll like a big gauze bandage. Cut off enough to wrap two or three times around a Glock nylon brush and get after the lead. Four or five passes through the bore will remove all but the most stubborn fouling, and one Chore Boy has enough mesh to last for years.

That said, it's better to avoid getting the fouling in the first place. If you're handloading lead bullets then the biggest part of it is making sure that you have the right bullet diameter and that your chamber throats are the right diameter. Gas checks are a big help if you're casting your own. From there, you have to match your alloy with velocity/pressure. Taylor throating can also be a big help, but it's a pretty extreme measure.


Okie John

[jetfire]

I just use the drill because I'm lazy. I don't shoot enough lead to make a real difference.

[LSP972]

I've used that ChoreBoy stuff a few times on bores that got crudded up with "plated" bullet residue (long streaks that would not come out via conventional means; I suspect those bullets were under-sized and skidding across the lands). But the stuff I used was silver in color, and looked like shavings from a lathe cut.

Same procedure though... wrap a quantity around a bore brush and get after it.

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[Alpha Sierra]

Another one here who uses a drill, short aluminum rod, and a bronze brush to power scrub both the chambers and the barrel of my revolvers. So long as one is careful to keep the rod from touching the bore, all will be well. And even slight accidental contact is of no concern due to the relative hardness of the barrel steel compared to the rod.

[Rich]

I was once told that shooting FMJ after lead bullets was a good idea, as it cleans out the bore, especially on a traditional land and groove setup.
not sure about that one though.

I was told the same when I carried a 1911 and like shooting SWC.

[Rich]

I've seen two guns ruined by shooting jacketed after lead, one a model 66 and the other a Glock 17


I have never seen the need to use a drill on a wheelgun, or any other gun frankly, and I have shot a ton of lead through several of mine over the years.

I shot a lot of lead in my S&W wheelguns and the Colt 1911 . never needed anything more than the average cleaning kit.

I haven't seen damage from shooting FMJ after lead in my 1911. I know when I loaded up some SWC for my beloved P229 it became a jammomatic after that day I never tried lead again in that pistol.


I also hear P30 don't like lead? : (


That's to bad some of my best groups are shot using lead bullets in 9mm 45acp 38/357.

I think lead can be more accurate than some of the match grade jacketed stuff