Honest Gun-Owning Mom Busted In NJ Could Face 3 Years In Prison

[Stephen]

http://www.my9nj.com/story/25996007/nj-gun-permit-problems



27 year-old Shaneen Allen from Philadelphia wanted to protect her family. She took a gun safety course, applied for and was granted a concealed carry permit and she purchased a gun. “One of my family members, he thought it was appropriate for me to get one because I’m a single mother and I have two children and I work two jobs and I work late and getting up at that time of night I got robbed twice last year and he felt the need for me to get my license to protect me and my kids,” Allen explained... Allen said that she didn't know her permit didn't apply to New Jersey so when she was stopped for a minor traffic offense she told the police about her gun and her permit to carry... Under New Jersey gun laws, the illegal possession of a gun is a second-degree felony which holds a minimum sentence of three-years in prison... Allen has no criminal record and only owned the gun for a week. So far the Atlantic County Prosecutor has denied her entry into a diversionary program that would allow her to avoid jail time.


The article has a little more detail. It looks like she's really, really screwed. Note that training classes are not a requirement for a LTCF in PA. She did that on her own, which makes her more responsible and better trained than half the keyboard commandos on gun forums. I hope this gets some attention from the NRA or pro-gun media outlets or whatever. Granted she made a pretty bone-headed mistake, but she's about a sympathetic figure as you could hope for. Single mother working two jobs, victim of multiple crimes in the past. All but the most hardcore antis have to concede she shouldn't be facing a minimum sentence of 3 years in prison.

[LorenzoS]

Another victim of that state. Since Krispy pardoned Aitken and vetoed a few gun control bills recently I'm not hopeful that he'll be interested in spending another penny of political capital on another pardon. She's now screwed and will be a felon for life. I'm so glad I escaped that crapstain of a state last month.

[Jeep]

Another victim of that state. Since Krispy pardoned Aitken and vetoed a few gun control bills recently I'm not hopeful that he'll be interested in spending another penny of political capital on another pardon. She's now screwed and will be a felon for life. I'm so glad I escaped that crapstain of a state last month.

This is a result of Northern New Jersey Dems who live in protected enclaves and despise normal people who need to protect themselves. She isn't close to a criminal, and the 2nd amendment should fully protect her, but the 2nd amendment doesn't apply in New Jersey according to a recent federal court decision. Well, they didn't quite say that, but they did say that because New Jersey has had these draconian carry laws for a long time that meant there was no second amendment right to carry.

So a young woman trying to do the right thing is going to go to jail in spite of the fact that she has a constitutional right to keep and BEAR arms.

The politicians who do this to innocent people have a lot to answer for.

[Shellback]

Keep your mouth closed and do not divulge any more information than is necessary.

Allen said that she didn't know her permit didn't apply to New Jersey so when she was stopped for a minor traffic offense she told the police about her gun and her permit to carry. In this case, being honest may have cost her.

“The judge tried to tell me that telling the truth messed me up, my life up and the cop said the same thing. Me opening my mouth and speaking out he said I’m one out of ten people that spoke up and was honest and that got me in trouble,” she said.

[hufnagel]

I'm not even sure why she'd TELL the cop she was carrying, since PA doesn't require you to inform. I'm sorry she'd getting locked up, and the resultant ****storm that will surround her kids as a result; they're the ones that in the end will truly be screwed by this. I also don't expect anything to change as a result of it, nor do I expect CC to do anything about it. I don't get how she didn't do a simple Google search... putting in 'NJ gun laws' and the 3rd link down is 'Transporting a Firearm Into / Through the State of New Jersey'.

[GardoneVT]

I'm not even sure why she'd TELL the cop she was carrying, since PA doesn't require you to inform. I'm sorry she'd getting locked up, and the resultant ****storm that will surround her kids as a result; they're the ones that in the end will truly be screwed by this. I also don't expect anything to change as a result of it, nor do I expect CC to do anything about it. I don't get how she didn't do a simple Google search... putting in 'NJ gun laws' and the 3rd link down is 'Transporting a Firearm Into / Through the State of New Jersey'.

Because she's not a gun nut like us here. When I visited California, the friends I stayed with in LA were genuinely shocked my South Dakota CCW permit was meaningless in CA. Most uninitiated folks think a LTC is like a drivers license.

[Skaaphaas]

Does the Criminal Law there not require intent to be proven before she can be convicted?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, in SA our criminal law is based on Roman-Dutch law, so it may differ vastly.

[LorenzoS]

Does the Criminal Law there not require intent to be proven before she can be convicted?

No.

Possession of a handgun in NJ without a permit is a felony with mandatory 3 year minimum, period. Google Brian Aitken for another example of an honest person with no bad intent getting convicted because he simply didn't understand the law. By the way, the hollow-points add additional charges. Common sense gun laws to protect the children, after all.

[Stephen]

By the way, the hollow-points add additional charges. Common sense gun laws to protect the children, after all.

IMO, NJ's restrictions on JHPs rival MA's mandated 10lb trigger as the dumbest gun control law in the country. And they have the gall to refer to this crap as "gun safety" legislation.

[Skaaphaas]

No.

Possession of a handgun in NJ without a permit is a felony with mandatory 3 year minimum, period. Google Brian Aitken for another example of an honest person with no bad intent getting convicted because he simply didn't understand the law. By the way, the hollow-points add additional charges. Common sense gun laws to protect the children, after all.
Thanks. Over here, "ignorance of the law" sometimes really is a legitimate excuse, as most crimes require intent, which cannot be present if the person is not aware that what he is doing is wrong. Here, the prosecutor would not even proceed with this case.

It's a sad situation for this woman, I'll follow the thread for an outcome.

[Shellback]

Most uninitiated folks think a LTC is like a drivers license.

As it should be.

[hufnagel]

Thanks. Over here, "ignorance of the law" sometimes really is a legitimate excuse, as most crimes require intent, which cannot be present if the person is not aware that what he is doing is wrong. Here, the prosecutor would not even proceed with this case.

It's a sad situation for this woman, I'll follow the thread for an outcome.

they don't call this place Nazi Jermany for nothing you know.
we don't care how "ignorant" of a law you are... guilty is guilty and you're going to mandatory lockup for more time than the local drug pimp will ever see in his lifetime.

yes, the above makes me want to vomit.

[TAZ]

And the officer just couldn't run her name for wants warrants and splain the situation to her and have her be on her way cause that would have been so much worse than telling her to lie to a cop next time. There is about as much logic there as in the laws of the state.

[Shellback]

NJ Supreme Court drops the ball... (http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/07/nj_supreme_court_wont_hear_blockbuster_gun_case_af ter_all.html)

The New Jersey Supreme Court, in an unusual move, has scrapped its plans to hear a challenge to one of New Jersey’s gun-control laws.

By sidestepping the heated debate, the court left in place one of the nation’s toughest measures, which dates to 1924 and bars most people from carrying firearms outside their homes...

But in a one-sentence order issued in May, the court reversed itself and threw out the appeal. As is their custom, the justices gave no reasons, saying only that the initial order to hear Pantano’s case was “improvidently granted.”

Paula Franzese, a law professor at Seton Hall University, said it was rare for the state Supreme Court to backtrack on a decision to hear a case, but that it can happen when the underlying legal issues are in flux.

“It is an opportunity for the court to regroup and either wait for the benefit of additional time or alternatively take a wait-and-see approach,” Franzese said. “It is by no means an indication as to the merits of a given case.”

Among other possible reasons, she added, was the state justices sometimes try to avoid wading in the same waters as the federal courts...

[Chuck Haggard]

Not sure who did the car stop, but I seriously question his judgement.

[cclaxton]

Has anyone started a Petition on Change.Org or a legal defense fund?
I would donate.
Cody

[Shellback]

"No society can exist unless the laws are respected to a certain degree. The safest way to make laws respected is to make them respectable. When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." - The Law, Frederic Bastiat

[Dagga Boy]

Not sure who did the car stop, but I seriously question his judgement.

The best Chief I ever worked for stressed that you treat good citizens like good citizens and crooks like crooks. As long as you didn't violate that core philosophy you would be fine. In this case I guarantee that he would have fired the officer involved. Hope the officer and D/A sleep well and are proud of their work.

I am so glad I am retired.

[Chuck Haggard]

I have seen a few cases pre-CCW days here in KS where good folks were sent on their way after being caught with a gun for whatever reason (nothing stupid). One I know of was a gal being stalked by an ex, she had been attacked a couple of times even though she had a restraining order, she figured out that paper was just paper for the most part.

[cclaxton]

The attorney says that the Pre-Trial Intervention Director will let her into the program, but the Prosecutor has not agreed.
They are in the process of setting up a legal defense fund and internet petition.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Evan-F-Nappen-Attorney-At-Law-PC/134969510019316
Cody

[hufnagel]

The best Chief I ever worked for stressed that you treat good citizens like good citizens and crooks like crooks. As long as you didn't violate that core philosophy you would be fine. In this case I guarantee that he would have fired the officer involved. Hope the officer and D/A sleep well and are proud of their work.

I am so glad I am retired.

If you could find ONE cop in the entire state of NJ that applied that philosophy I'd be impressed.
Well ok, I can think of one. He'll never make chief though.

[cclaxton]

But isn't it true that we don't really know how many people were given a warning and sent back to PA?
We only hear about the arrests.
Cody

[David Armstrong]

Does the Criminal Law there not require intent to be proven before she can be convicted?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, in SA our criminal law is based on Roman-Dutch law, so it may differ vastly.
Intent is necessary for some criminal violations, but not all. This is apparently one of the "not all" versions. And while I find the law rather silly I will say that if one is going to own a gun and carry a gun the onus is on the gun owner to know the law. Failing to do so is not a defense, IMO.

[hufnagel]

But isn't it true that we don't really know how many people were given a warning and sent back to PA?
We only hear about the arrests.
Cody

I would be ASTONISHED if any. No seriously, analyze the situation:
Cop stops car. Protocol is to call in the plates immediately, even before the actual stop happens.
Cop lets driver go AFTER being informed of illegal carry (It's NJ... all carry is illegal).
Person let go goes on to commit a crime.
Can you say cop BURIED UNDER THE JAIL for that? The police union would throw him under the bus so fast you'd think Dunkin Donuts was having a special on Boston Crème filled.
Also, most (If not all) departments now have cameras in their cars. Hell you should see the kit in my town's rides; they have so much tech they can't carry people 2-up front anymore!

Honestly I don't think I could get out of that stop even with both PBA cards in hand AND it being the officer who gave them to me!

[cclaxton]

He could have followed her back to the PA line and watched he go into PA....no?
Cody

[hufnagel]

He could have followed her back to the PA line and watched he go into PA....no?
Cody

http://cdn.hark.com/images/000/659/482/659482/original.jpg
you never studied...

You don't get a 2nd chance in NJ. Hell you don't even get a 1st chance. Remember... Guns are ILLEGAL in NJ, except under certain narrowly defined exemptions.

[TGS]

He could have followed her back to the PA line and watched he go into PA....no?
Cody

Was that suppose to be a serious comment or a joke?

[Le Français]

Intent is necessary for some criminal violations, but not all. This is apparently one of the "not all" versions.

Why is that? The mens rea ("guilty mind") requirements in criminal laws do not require that the person engaging in the conduct be aware that the conduct is illegal. That is not what intent means in criminal law. Rather, if the law contains an intent requirement, that means that an element of the offense is that the person committing the conduct intended to engage in that conduct. Laws without any mens rea requirement indicate a strict liability crime, which one can commit without even knowing that they were engaging in the prohibited conduct.

For example, in my area operating a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol is a strict liability crime. Simply performing the act constitutes a violation of the law, even if the person didn't know that they were engaging in that act.

On the other hand, the crime of murder has been committed if a person intentionally or knowingly causes the death of another human being. That means that they intended to cause the death, or knew they were very likely causing the death. It does not mean that they had to know that what they were doing was illegal and intended to break the law. They may be completely ignorant of the law and still satisfy the intent requirement.

So in this NJ situation, there very well could be an intent requirement in the law that was allegedly broken. For example, if the law stated "A person commits a felony if that person intentionally carries a concealed weapon in the State of XXXX", then all that would mean is that to satisfy the intent element, the person had to intend to carry the concealed weapon in XXXX. Knowledge of the law does not play into it at all.

[cclaxton]

Please donate. I gave $100.
Also spread the link around other gun forums. We should put our money where our words are.

http://gogetfunding.com/project/shaneen-allen-legal-defense-fund

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Shaneen-Allen-Legal-Defense-Fund/594457397336649

Cody

[Shellback]

http://gogetfunding.com/project/shaneen-allen-legal-defense-fund
Thanks for posting that!

[cclaxton]

http://www.nranews.com/cam/video/evan-nappen-philadelphia-woman-victim-of-new-jersey-gun-law

[David Armstrong]

Why is that? The mens rea ("guilty mind") requirements in criminal laws do not require that the person engaging in the conduct be aware that the conduct is illegal. That is not what intent means in criminal law. Rather, if the law contains an intent requirement, that means that an element of the offense is that the person committing the conduct intended to engage in that conduct. Laws without any mens rea requirement indicate a strict liability crime, which one can commit without even knowing that they were engaging in the prohibited conduct.
Why is that? Because that is what the law says. I make no effort to understand or attempt to figure out what goes on in the mind of New Jersey lawmakers, or most of their citizens for that matter. There are a few ways around the intent issue, such as the strict liability that you point out. I'am not going to hazard a guess as to what exception they were looking at or thinking of.

[Chuck Whitlock]

He could have followed her back to the PA line and watched he go into PA....no?
Cody


http://cdn.hark.com/images/000/659/482/659482/original.jpg
you never studied...

You don't get a 2nd chance in NJ. Hell you don't even get a 1st chance. Remember... Guns are ILLEGAL in NJ, except under certain narrowly defined exemptions.


I seem to recall that, at least in the case of NJSP, that a trooper could get jammed up for exercising such discretion once the dash cam footage was reviewed by supervisors. Not a stretch to believe that such could be the case in other jurisdictions.

[PD Sgt.]

The best Chief I ever worked for stressed that you treat good citizens like good citizens and crooks like crooks. As long as you didn't violate that core philosophy you would be fine. In this case I guarantee that he would have fired the officer involved. Hope the officer and D/A sleep well and are proud of their work.

I am so glad I am retired.

This exactly. Well, except the retired part, I have some years left to go.

I would like to think most cops could tell the difference between a good citizen making an honest mistake and a criminal act that requires enforcement action. Temper enforcement with common sense and wisdom.

[LorenzoS]

I make no effort to understand or attempt to figure out what goes on in the mind of New Jersey lawmakers, or most of their citizens for that matter. Most of the citizens will think this is a great job by law enforcement in getting a dangerous gun criminal off the street. Imagine how many children she could have massacred? And loaded with cop-killer hollowpoints as well for extra murderous killing power.

[Shellback]

I would like to think most cops could tell the difference between a good citizen making an honest mistake and a criminal act that requires enforcement action. Temper enforcement with common sense and wisdom.

Precisely what is needed. Knowing the difference between malum prohibitum and malum in se and taking the appropriate action when it's obvious there is no criminal intent.

[Dagga Boy]

This exactly. Well, except the retired part, I have some years left to go.

I would like to think most cops could tell the difference between a good citizen making an honest mistake and a criminal act that requires enforcement action. Temper enforcement with common sense and wisdom.

Most discretion in L/E is flat gone. Way too much second guessing, video, cell phone video, GPS, set ups, stings, racial bias survey's, etc. etc. to expect any level of common sense and decency to be left. When "good police work" becomes "racial profiling", and a whole host of other issues, the letters "CYA" gets the maximum usage. The best way to "CYA" is to paper EVERYTHING. No breaks on T-stops, violations, nothing. The quickest way to get rid of any hint of doing something wrong is to go straight "letter of the law". It is a very sad thing.
Personally, I have unloaded pistols and had the owners of them properly secure them in their trunk when I had "John Q Citizen" from out of State with a CCW not understand that it wasn't good in California. Education over enforcement (it usually involved folks coming into the Pomona Gun Show back in the day). I even helped out a very major player in the industry get his case dumped before it even went to the DA when he got popped on a CCW case in my city as his reasoning for having the gun was very sound and fit the criteria for a penal code exemption (that the arresting officer was unaware of). Would I do any of that today? Not a fricking chance. Way to many folks out there with hidden cameras trying to set officers up. Best bet, is by the book............and it is a horribly sad state of affairs. Having thought this over for a couple of days, I understand why the officer made the arrest and it makes me sick that this is where we have gotten to. When arresting a mom with no criminal history instead of locking the gun in her trunk with an education on the laws of New Jersey regarding carrying of firearms is "the right thing to do" is simply sad.
This lady also falls into another HUGE problem I warn people about. When good people are in situations like this, they have nothing to trade. A gang member ex-felon with a gun in similar circumstances will simply trade the gun charge for a rat on some other dope dealer. A guy on a robbery beef will have the gun charges dropped in a plea deal for "Grand theft". Nice people have nothing to trade, and they get HOSED by the system. Again, the justice system is broken. This is what the people of New jersey thinks is keeping them safe..........yet they are not. Just a sad state of affairs. Hopefully, someone in this mess will "do the right thing".

[Stephen]

Here's an interesting article published today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/07/22/shaneen-allen-race-and-gun-control/

To anyone on our side of gun rights, nothing he mentions is as compelling as the fact that most proposed gun control is ineffective and makes a mockery of the Bill of Rights. But maybe some of our opponents will react to this since so many of them are obsessed with calling everything and everyone they don't like racist. The article discusses the problems of discretion in victimless crimes like this, which has been a topic in this thread.


In the 1990s, gun rights activists accused the ATF of explicitly targeting people for their advocacy (with plenty of evidence to back their claims), often with violent and destructive raids on their homes. You needn’t be a Second Amendment purist to understand the implications of using the discretion that comes with enforcing victimless crimes to target people for their political views, any more than you need to be a racial justice activist to understand the injustice of using the same discretion and the same laws to primarily target people of color... If we’re going to enforce gun laws that require discretion on the part of investigators and prosecutors — and add new laws to boot — we can only consider the demonstrated history of how investigators and prosecutors have used that discretion, not some idealized prosecutor or ATF investigator that we’d want to be in charge.

I hadn't realized this poor woman had already served 40 days in jail until I read this article. That's pretty rage inducing. Kitten New Jersey.

[cclaxton]

A New Jersey Assemblyman has introduced a bill that gives prosecutors and judges more discretion. My only issue is the last line which says "any crime." It should say "any felony crime as defined by New Jersey State Law."

Breaking News --- Assemblyman Dancer has just filed Shaneen's Law which gives Judges full discretion to avoid mandatory jail and/or give PTI to folks like Shaneen. The bill is A3608. The key language reads: "(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection c. of this section to the contrary, the court shall have discretion to impose the mandatory sentence, or pretrial intervention or supervisory treatment pursuant to N.J.S.2C:43-12 et seq., for a violation of subsections b. or c. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 if the court makes a finding on the record that the convicted person:
(a) is an out-of-State resident;
(b) is otherwise permitted by the state in which he is a resident to possess the firearm in the manner under which the conviction arose in this State;
(c) has no known association with a criminal street gang, as defined in section 1 of P.L.2007, c.341 (C.2C:33-29); and
(d) has never been convicted of a crime in this State or any other state, territory or other jurisdiction of the United States."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/235852020/Shaneen-s-Law-A3608-New-Jersey

Please help to advertise for her legal defense fund at: http://gogetfunding.com/project/shaneen-allen-legal-defense-fund#/comments
They are up to 50% funding, and need another 50%. Please paste this link to any friendly forums.
If you have not donated, please donate now.

Thanks,
Cody

[av8usn]

This is precisely why I avoid "The Peoples' Republics if NJ, Md, NY," etc.

[hufnagel]

A New Jersey Assemblyman has introduced a bill that gives prosecutors and judges more discretion. My only issue is the last line which says "any crime." It should say "any felony crime as defined by New Jersey State Law."


No kidding. I have yet to meet any Saints, especially in this state.

[cclaxton]

UPDATE: Shaneen Allen is going to trial. Motion to dismiss and motion for Pre-Trial Intervention are denied
http://www.nbc40.net/story/26202199/new-jerseys-tight-gun-laws-ensnare-out-of-staters

Please give to her legal defense fund at http://gogetfunding.com/project/shaneen-allen-legal-defense-fund#/comments
Cody

[cclaxton]

Someone started a White House Petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/justice-shaneen-allen/HbmhDWDk
Cody

[RoyGBiv]

Colion Noir commentary. On the mark as usual.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvNyLyKeBLg

[Shellback]

Currently the prosecutor is asking for more time to review the case (http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/crime/courts/prosecutor-seeks-time-to-rethink-position-on-shaneen-allen-gun/article_66d1ba80-3d0a-11e4-b97c-2732096e7117.html) before proceeding.

[RoyGBiv]

Currently the prosecutor is asking for more time to review the case (http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/crime/courts/prosecutor-seeks-time-to-rethink-position-on-shaneen-allen-gun/article_66d1ba80-3d0a-11e4-b97c-2732096e7117.html) before proceeding.
I know that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but heck..... Colion was spot on.

And the good citizens of PA would be better served if, when they were issued a CC permit, it came with a simple instruction card on prohibited places.
On the front page, in bold letters it should say "THIS PERMIT IS NOT VALID IN NEW JOISEY(sic)"

There are a few useful things a person might learn in a class. However, I'm not suggesting for PA to add any new requirements.

[Palmguy]

UPDATE: Shaneen Allen is going to trial. Motion to dismiss and motion for Pre-Trial Intervention are denied

Cody

The same DA agreed to pre-trial intervention for Ray Rice.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

The same DA agreed to pre-trial intervention for Ray Rice.

Hey, KOing your girlfriend/baby momma isn't treated very seriously.

I've had a guy crush the orbital of his ex not go to jail. Granted, she had a bit of a record (does anyone condider smuggling weapons to gang members SERIOUS, because maybe she had a bad record...) but the female prosecutor didn't push the issue.

The defendant's record in that case was bad as well, but violating his probation to sent him back to jail?

Nope

Guns?

Oh f-me. Veteran of Kosovo and Iraq carrying a gun without a permit...the ass kissing I went through so he didn't do the 1 year mandatory minimum still sets my personal standard for miracles.

Domestic violence just doesn't rank like a nice gun case.

[cclaxton]

Shaneen Allen to be placed into Pretrial Intervention
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/shaneen-allen-to-be-admitted-into-pti-after-state-issues/article_e12a151a-4422-11e4-8743-7f4df4d9bb52.html

The nightmare for Shaneen is almost over.
Cody

[RoyGBiv]

Shaneen Allen to be placed into Pretrial Intervention
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/shaneen-allen-to-be-admitted-into-pti-after-state-issues/article_e12a151a-4422-11e4-8743-7f4df4d9bb52.html

The nightmare for Shaneen is almost over.
Cody

This statement is somewhat of a big deal... assuming it's applied next time as well.
I can see where the State AG might have some heartburn with this.... kind of opens the door for anyone from out of state to use it as a get out of jail "not quite free" card.


"In most of these cases, imprisonment is neither necessary nor appropriate to serve the interests of justice and protect public safety," acting Attorney General John Hoffman wrote.

"In applying the factors set out in the clarification, I determined that the defendant in this case should be offered the opportunity to be admitted into the Atlantic County PTI Program," McClain said. "I have communicated that determination to the court and defense counsel."

[GardoneVT]

This statement is somewhat of a big deal... assuming it's applied next time as well.
I can see where the State AG might have some heartburn with this.... kind of opens the door for anyone from out of state to use it as a get out of jail "not quite free" card.

Perhaps this is a false impression I'm holding, but I was under the belief most gun cases were somewhat of a "catch and release" prospect long before this incident . The police arrest some poor sod for violating a firearm ordinance, and then the DA drops charges or pleas down to a fine after said traveler spends a few days in jail. That's effectively what happened to George Revell, who was released minus firearm after a weekend in Suffolk County NJ jail.

[TGS]

Perhaps this is a false impression I'm holding, but I was under the belief most gun cases were somewhat of a "catch and release" prospect long before this incident . The police arrest some poor sod for violating a firearm ordinance, and then the DA drops charges or pleas down to a fine after said traveler spends a few days in jail. That's effectively what happened to George Revell, who was released minus firearm after a weekend in Suffolk County NJ jail.

False impression.

The subjects of "most gun cases" in the state of NJ are scumbags in a segment of society that is single-handedly responsible for 83% of violence (nation-wide) according to the FBI. The extra charge for each hollowpoint carried, carrying a firearm, ect are intentioned to stack charges onto otherwise despicable street urchins who just victimized someone. Unfortunately for the rest of us, the result is like the afterbirth of a Hungarian gang-bang, as laws are designed to govern society at large and good folk get caught up in the middle by committing victimless "crimes."

Good people getting hooked up for firearms charges here is fairly rare. The reason you hear about cases like this thread is because they are 1) Rare, 2) Citizens in good standing, and 3) Absurd victimless crimes. What you don't hear about are the many oxygen thieves who just raped their 3rd child of the day and are getting a few extra years in jail instead of getting out early due to a good lawyer.

[cclaxton]

False impression.

The subjects of "most gun cases" in the state of NJ are scumbags in a segment of society that is single-handedly responsible for 83% of violence (nation-wide) according to the FBI. The extra charge for each hollowpoint carried, carrying a firearm, ect are intentioned to stack charges onto otherwise despicable street urchins who just victimized someone. Unfortunately for the rest of us, the result is like the afterbirth of a Hungarian gang-bang, as laws are designed to govern society at large and good folk get caught up in the middle by committing victimless "crimes."

Good people getting hooked up for firearms charges here is fairly rare. The reason you hear about cases like this thread is because they are 1) Rare, 2) Citizens in good standing, and 3) Absurd victimless crimes. What you don't hear about are the many oxygen thieves who just raped their 3rd child of the day and are getting a few extra years in jail instead of getting out early due to a good lawyer.
C'mon...tell us how you REALLY feel.
Cody

[JRB]

False impression.

The subjects of "most gun cases" in the state of NJ are scumbags in a segment of society that is single-handedly responsible for 83% of violence (nation-wide) according to the FBI. The extra charge for each hollowpoint carried, carrying a firearm, ect are intentioned to stack charges onto otherwise despicable street urchins who just victimized someone. Unfortunately for the rest of us, the result is like the afterbirth of a Hungarian gang-bang, as laws are designed to govern society at large and good folk get caught up in the middle by committing victimless "crimes."

Good people getting hooked up for firearms charges here is fairly rare. The reason you hear about cases like this thread is because they are 1) Rare, 2) Citizens in good standing, and 3) Absurd victimless crimes. What you don't hear about are the many oxygen thieves who just raped their 3rd child of the day and are getting a few extra years in jail instead of getting out early due to a good lawyer.

There's a fair amount of irony to be found between this post, and your signature.

[TGS]

There's a fair amount of irony to be found between this post, and your signature.

I never said I supported the gun control, if that's what you're implying.

[Chris Rhines]

Will Ms. Allen still be stuck with a felony record?

[rsa-otc]

If she successfully completes the program her record is supposed to be expunged
Unfortunately in the 30 years I've been dealing with firearms licensing in NJ, my experience is that unless your attorney in on the ball and follows up making the system do what it's supposed to do, it most likely will fall through the cracks to haunt you 20 years down the line. Her attorney Evan Nappen has the reputation of being on the ball.

[joshs]

Will Ms. Allen still be stuck with a felony record?

No.

[RoyGBiv]

Saw this guy on the news this morning....
Would make a good test case, methinks.

New Jersey man seeks pardon after legally owned gun makes him convicted felon (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/18/new-jersey-man-hopes-for-pardon-after-legally-owned-gun-makes-him-convict/)

[rsa-otc]

Saw this guy on the news this morning....
Would make a good test case, methinks.

New Jersey man seeks pardon after legally owned gun makes him convicted felon (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/18/new-jersey-man-hopes-for-pardon-after-legally-owned-gun-makes-him-convict/)

NJ Laws Suck; there is no doubt.

But to be honest he had a loaded gun in the glove compartment of his car without a permit, something that is illegal in more states than NJ. PA comes to mind even with it's open carry law. Why he was transporting to his job when he couldn't use it there until he received his permit is questionable to me as well. That in itself is illegal as well. To many questions about his story in my mind to say he is an "innocent" gun owner with out further clarification.

I feel sorry for the guy but again what happened would lead to an arrest in more states than the peoples republic of "NJ, NY, MA, CT, IL, CA".

[cclaxton]

Victory!
Gov. Christie Pardons Shaneen:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/02/chris-christie-pardons-concealed-carry-owner-shaneen-allen/
Cody

[RoyGBiv]

Victory!
Gov. Christie Pardons Shaneen:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/02/chris-christie-pardons-concealed-carry-owner-shaneen-allen/
Cody
Glad he did the right thing... but.. I'd still vote 3rd party.

[Suvorov]

This should have happened years ago. The fact that Gov Christie can sit by and continue to allow decent people to have their lives ruined because of stupid laws that were (ostensibly) design to help put real bad people in jail, tells me that he is no friend to gun rights nor liberty in general. I hope I have a much better choice than him from the R party.



Victory!
Gov. Christie Pardons Shaneen:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/02/chris-christie-pardons-concealed-carry-owner-shaneen-allen/
Cody

[GardoneVT]

This should have happened years ago. The fact that Gov Christie can sit by and continue to allow decent people to have their lives ruined because of stupid laws that were (ostensibly) design to help put real bad people in jail, tells me that he is no friend to gun rights nor liberty in general. I hope I have a much better choice than him from the R party.

In all fairness, the fact that NJ has poor gun laws isnt his fault.The man is not my favorite either, but credit is due where it is due.

Further, I doubt one of his powers as state governor is "unilaterally changing his constituents' mind overnight on firearms." He cant repeal decades of bad gun laws by himself, especially if its against the prevailing public sentiment.

[Suvorov]

In all fairness, the fact that NJ has poor gun laws isnt his fault.The man is not my favorite either, but credit is due where it is due.

Further, I doubt one of his powers as state governor is "unilaterally changing his constituents' mind overnight on firearms." He cant repeal decades of bad gun laws by himself, especially if its against the prevailing public sentiment.

Obviously, and I'm not saying that he has any such power (come on - you should respect me more than to think I'm that derp), but you know as well as I know that he can put pressure or simply give guidance on how prosecutors and judges should handle such obviously wrong applications of law. Hell, if the current Federal DOJ can pretty much decide to ignore immigration laws as well as a lot of drug laws, I can't see this as too big a leap for Christie. He simply did this so he has a couple 2A arrows in his quiver for the GOP nominations.

[RoyGBiv]

Glad he did the right thing... but.. I'd still vote 3rd party.

Like I was saying.... Statist.

Where's the head-bang smilie?

Chris Christie: I'd Crack Down on Legal Weed in Colorado, Washington as President (http://reason.com/blog/2015/04/14/chris-christie-id-crack-down-on-legal-we#.gdfuhs:nEEA)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Christie on gun laws - http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/chris-christie-gun-rights-new-hampshire-second-amendment-nra-117000.html?hp=l2_4

Trying to straddle the fence. He needs to be specifically ask on shall issue, SAFE type laws, AWBs - and the like. Not just I support sportsmen and having a shotgun to shoot in the air from the porch.

[TGS]

Trying to straddle the fence. He needs to be specifically ask on shall issue, SAFE type laws, AWBs - and the like. Not just I support sportsmen and having a shotgun to shoot in the air from the porch.


Why? The answer is already known:


http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/Finkerfuggles/ChrisChristieOnGuns_zps0532da5e.png (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/Finkerfuggles/media/ChrisChristieOnGuns_zps0532da5e.png.html)



Do you really need anything else? Well, okay. Here ya go, then:



http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q758/Finkerfuggles/Christieguns_zpsf546b669.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/Finkerfuggles/media/Christieguns_zpsf546b669.jpg.html)

[SamAdams]

You guys don't actually believe politicians or that they take principled stands, do you ? :rolleyes:

They say what they think will get votes, especially when election season has started.

If Christie was somehow transported to Alaska or Idaho he'd probably be an NRA lifetime member.

[Wendell]

Gun Owners Foundation Briefing on Concealed Carry Reciprocity (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcfj2KDQpmI)
Published to YouTube on Feb 2, 2017 by Gun Owners of America (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFJ2K2gUJJ1ecBU6Sxc3bCA)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcfj2KDQpmI

[Wendell]

TRENTON - The handgun that Shaneen Allen was carrying when she was pulled over on a South Jersey highway could have sent her to prison for years if not for a pardon from Gov. Chris Christie. Now the legal saga that kept the Pennsylvania mother of two in jail for 48 days has helped inspire a measure that could change handgun laws across the country. “Hopefully I’ll be at the White House next to (President) Trump signing this bill,” said Allen, who has become a face of the Republican effort to break down barriers to carrying concealed firearms between states. “Republicans put their money where their mouth was.”

<http://www.courierpostonline.com/story/news/local/south-jersey/2017/12/25/pardoned-christie-woman-pushes-change-u-s-gun-laws/980794001/>