Need Recommendation for 9mm handgun

[veteran-USMC]

I need help in selecting a quality 9mm handgun for plinking & addition to my home defense system. I am willing to spend $900. I am looking at (1) very good reliability (2) trigger that is consistant with aprox. 4.5 to 5.5 lb. pull (3) 4 to 41/2 inch barrel. I have between small to medium hands. I held a Beretta 92f and didn't like the trigger because it is DA then single action. Thanks for all opinions & your time. Semper Fi Till I Die!

[LostDuke]

H&K P30 LEM V1 is within reach, closer closer...

[JBP55]

Very reliable, possible 4.5# trigger pull and no DA/SA. That will be a short list.
I would go with a current production Gen 4 Glock. A G19 or G17 with an OEM - connector will be in the 4.5# to 5.5# range.

[Clay]

Gen4 Glock 17 or 19.

[JonInWA]

Glock G17 or G19; FN FNS; Steyr M9A1, possibly HK VP9 once fielded.

Best, Jon

[Up1911Fan]

Gen4 G17.

[warpedcamshaft]

Buy 2 used glock 19 trade-ins from summitgunbroker.com. Stick one away somewhere safe.

379 a piece.

[Kyle Reese]

Gen 4 Glock 17.

[JAD]

Gen4 G17. The browning high power and CZ75 run cocked and locked will also work.

[orionz06]

Gen 4 Glock 17.

[DocGKR]

9 mm Glock, M&P9, HK VP9

[veteran-USMC]

9 mm Glock, M&P9, HK VP9

DocGKR: The HK VP9 has not been out very long to have established a reliable track record. I know HK is a great gun but buying HK VP9 is gambling that this model is reliable & not a lemon!

[pangloss]

I really like the Gen4 Glocks. I have a 2010 Gen4 G17 and a 2014 Gen4 G19. Both are great pistols.

[ldunnmobile]

DocGKR: The HK VP9 has not been out very long to have established a reliable track record. I know HK is a great gun but buying HK VP9 is gambling that this model is reliable & not a lemon!

I think I would sooner take a bet the sun would stop shining.

Let's put it this way. It's sure not any more of a gamble then a new a Glock or M&P, which I'm not knocking, their good guns... I just wouldn't NOT buy the VP9 for quality concerns.

[richiecotite]

Walther ppq is a solid choice.

I'd go with that or hk vp9.

[23JAZ]

Gen 4 Glock 19!!!

[DocGKR]

If I were given three HK VP9's for free tomorrow, along with an unlimited supply of practice ammo in exchange for getting rid of all my other handguns, I'd have no issues doing so....

[veteran-USMC]

If I were given three HK VP9's for free tomorrow, along with an unlimited supply of practice ammo in exchange for getting rid of all my other handguns, I'd have no issues doing so....

Sounds like we have a winner in this horse race! Thanks for your reassurance of HK's reliability. Local ranges around me don't have the HK VP9 in stock yet but if I want a winner I will hold out & wait until the HK is in stock.

[DocGKR]

Any of the three mentioned will work fine for you.

I would have no problems relying on a 9 mm Glock, M&P9, or 9 mm HK for self-defense.

Pick the one you shoot best.

[psalms144.1]

Because I'm heavily invested in the GLOCK platform (in terms of training, experience, and accessories) my first thought is Gen4 G17, or Gen4 G19 if you think you might ever want to conceal carry the pistol. BUT, I would caveat that by saying I would only buy a 2014 production GLOCK 9mm (as it seems that they've FINALLY gotten their act together after years of reliability issues), and I would EXPECT going in to have to shell out the money to replace the extractor with an Apex unit.

If I was coming into the game "fresh" I would go with the HK VP9 sight unseen, based solely on HK's reputation and track record for reliable, accurate pistols; and the results of early T&E guns. My only concern with the VP9 is concealability of that long-ish grip - I find that small increases in grip length lead to HUGE issues with concealment, based on my carry mode and style of dress. If I HAD TO carry a H&K for concealed purposes, it would be the P2000 9mm with "TLG" LEM trigger components.

With all due respect to others who don't agree - if someone gave my an M&P9FS for free, I'd sell it or trade it for ammunition. That's just my opinion, and based solely on not wanting to get into a fight with an inaccurate pistol that doesn't fit my hands.

[LittleLebowski]

DocGKR: The HK VP9 has not been out very long to have established a reliable track record. I know HK is a great gun but buying HK VP9 is gambling that this model is reliable & not a lemon!

It's a very good gamble.

[JBP55]

I have over 100,000 rounds on Gen 4 Glocks without any issues or APEX parts.

[psalms144.1]

I have over 100,000 rounds on Gen 4 Glocks without any issues or APEX parts.So YOU'RE the guy! I had FIVE bad G19s in a row between 2010-2012 - bad enough that the factory replaced each one of them (and the last three were replacements - so I had replacements of replacements that were bad). But, there's a tested and functional Gen4 G19 on my hip now as an authorized personal duty weapon - so obviously I think it's worth it. Of course, my current G19 has the APEX extractor, as it started getting wonky with ejection at about the 1,200 round mark...

Regards,

Kevin

[JonInWA]

Any of the three mentioned will work fine for you.

I would have no problems relying on a 9 mm Glock, M&P9, or 9 mm HK for self-defense.

Pick the one you shoot best.

Doc, I can certainly understand (and fully concur with) your recommendations of 9mm Glocks and HKs-but after what you've gone through with your personal M&Ps, and in what we've observed in multiple threads recently regarding the 9mm M&P issues, I guess I'm more than a little surprised that they're still on your "recommend" list...

Best, Jon

[av8usn]

I have an M&P 9mm Pro that has thousands of rounds through it. Totally reliable and as accurate as you can be. Another excellent choice would be a S&W 9mm 1911 Pro Series.

[hossb7]

So YOU'RE the guy! I had FIVE bad G19s in a row between 2010-2012 - bad enough that the factory replaced each one of them (and the last three were replacements - so I had replacements of replacements that were bad). But, there's a tested and functional Gen4 G19 on my hip now as an authorized personal duty weapon - so obviously I think it's worth it. Of course, my current G19 has the APEX extractor, as it started getting wonky with ejection at about the 1,200 round mark...

Regards,

Kevin

2010-2012 were the worst years for the Gen4 guns.

[Josh Runkle]

As everyone already mentioned: GLOCK 17 or 19, S&W M&P 9 or HK P30 V1.

However...if it were me, I would take the $900 and put $900 of ammo through your existing firearm.

If you absolutely cannot do that, I'd go with the GLOCK or M&P purely because they are cheaper...and then I'd take the difference and buy as much ammo as possible, to go shoot as much as possible.

[GardoneVT]

I need help in selecting a quality 9mm handgun for plinking & addition to my home defense system. I am willing to spend $900. I am looking at (1) very good reliability (2) trigger that is consistant with aprox. 4.5 to 5.5 lb. pull (3) 4 to 41/2 inch barrel. I have between small to medium hands. I held a Beretta 92f and didn't like the trigger because it is DA then single action. Thanks for all opinions & your time. Semper Fi Till I Die!

Buy 500 rounds of 9mm,and shoot every single round of it in double action through your Beretta.

By Cartridge #250, you won't notice a difference between DA or SA in terms of accuracy. By Round #500 you'll start shooting better in DA -and you'll never fear a heavy trigger pull again.

Best of all? It'll only set you back $175-$200.It worked for me, and I kid you not I hit equally as well in DA at 25 yards as I do Single Action.

[DocGKR]

Did not work for me...

[LittleLebowski]

I definitely know some guys raised on DA guns that can really shoot.

[BoppaBear]

Well, the responsible, unbiased, answer is to try a Glock, M&P, etc., etc., and get the one you shoot best.......there are many reliable modern handguns.

The totally irresponsible, biased as the day is long, fanboy in me says go with the P30 V1 and don't look back.....it's reliable, has customizable grips, consistent trigger pull (would definitely shoot one if you can), and is reliable (so important, I said it twice).

Barrel is a hair under 4", but there's always the "L".

Good luck!

[Rich]

HK P30L or P30 LEM
M&P in 40S&W or 45ACP

[Rich]

Barrel is a hair under 4", but there's always the "L".



I don't get why just under 4inch . Same with my P229 and its 3.9 inch barrel
Germans

[BoppaBear]

I don't get why just under 4inch . Same with my P229 and its 3.9 inch barrel
Germans

Yeah, while I'm sure it has to do with ballistics testing in the engineering phase, I do find it interesting that 1911's are fairly standard in .25" increments.

[RevolverRob]

Did not work for me...

Some folks have to do it the hard way (like me)...I bought an 1895 Nagant (back when they were 75 bucks), took the firing pin off the hammer, balanced a nickel on the end of the barrel and started stroking it (phrasing). Once I could get the nickel to stay still, I went to a penny, then a dime. After about 7 months of doing that for an hour a day every other trigger in the world felt light. The Nagant must have a 25-pound double action trigger pull, it's heavy, but relatively smooth and with work you can actually get the coin to sit still on the front sight.

Or you know, you could just not do that and go with guns that have better triggers. At the time I had two guns a Ruger P95 decocker and an 1895 Nagant. So, I figured I should get good with the DA trigger.

-Rob

[GardoneVT]

Some folks have to do it the hard way (like me)...I bought an 1895 Nagant (back when they were 75 bucks), took the firing pin off the hammer, balanced a nickel on the end of the barrel and started stroking it (phrasing). Once I could get the nickel to stay still, I went to a penny, then a dime. After about 7 months of doing that for an hour a day every other trigger in the world felt light. The Nagant must have a 25-pound double action trigger pull, it's heavy, but relatively smooth and with work you can actually get the coin to sit still on the front sight.

Or you know, you could just not do that and go with guns that have better triggers. At the time I had two guns a Ruger P95 decocker and an 1895 Nagant. So, I figured I should get good with the DA trigger.

-Rob

So, heavy triggers are always bad, then?

[RevolverRob]

So, heavy triggers are always bad, then?

http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i50/5/2/12/fbz_c782b0da10ccdd9048d45bfdd774195e.jpg

Okay, I'll bite...It's the Indian not the arrow?

[JHC]

If I were given three HK VP9's for free tomorrow, along with an unlimited supply of practice ammo in exchange for getting rid of all my other handguns, I'd have no issues doing so....

with it's 4.25 lb trigger?

[Beat Trash]

Any of the three mentioned will work fine for you.

I would have no problems relying on a 9 mm Glock, M&P9, or 9 mm HK for self-defense.

Pick the one you shoot best.

I couldn't agree more. Both on your list of guns, and on picking the gun that you shoot best.

[veteran-USMC]

If I were given three HK VP9's for free tomorrow, along with an unlimited supply of practice ammo in exchange for getting rid of all my other handguns, I'd have no issues doing so....

Does anyone know why HK tested the P30 by firing 90,000 rounds through this handgun & yet HK only fired 10,000 rounds through the HK VP9? Not trying to create a problem but this sure makes me very curious.

[Default.mp3]

Does anyone know why HK tested the P30 by firing 90,000 rounds through this handgun & yet HK only fired 10,000 rounds through the HK VP9? Not trying to create a problem but this sure makes me very curious.

H&K didn't test the P30 to 90k rounds, not publicly, anyways. Rather, they were referring to the test run by the man who started up this very forum: http://pistol-training.com/archives/2668

[veteran-USMC]

H&K didn't test the P30 to 90k rounds, not publicly, anyways. Rather, they were referring to the test run by the man who started up this very forum: http://pistol-training.com/archives/2668

Thank-you for this information. Today I had called HK and asked if HK had ever tested the HK P30? & their response was that the P30 was tested by HK with 90,000 rounds being fired through the P30 by HK. HK also stated that because the barrel of the P30 & VP9 are made out of the same material that the P30 test could apply to the VP9 . HK also said HK had fired 10,000 rounds through the VP9. This is what the HK Rep told me. Maybe he didn't know the whole story.

[Sensei]

I have a stable of HK pistols and 3 of those have crossed the 15K round mark with nothing more than changing the recoil spring assembly and routine cleaning. There is broad agreement that HK pistols are among the most accurate and durable pistols on the market. The problem that most people have with the HK platform is the trigger. DA/SA pistols have an oppressive pull weight on that first round. The LEM, and especially the light LEM, addresses this issue, but many people will struggle with the long take-up before the trigger breaks. This causes many people to stage the trigger and a nasty flinch is the result. In addition, the long trigger reset leaves a lot to bed desired. These shortcomings can be overcome with training, but the LEM trigger can be vary unforgiving to people who float between platforms.

While it is very possible that the VP9 will be the answer to all of us who really want to love HK pistols but need a more serviceable trigger, it is going to be several years before this pistol can boast the aftermarket support enjoyed by Glock or M&P. Thus, I aways recommend that anyone considering a first pistol purchase look no further than the G17/19. Yes, the Gen4 had some teething issues for 2-3 years. However, the current production Gen4 G17 appears to be GTG. The aftermarket support is second to none and parts are ubiquitous. Hell, my local hardware stocks G17 magazines. You can find a Gen4 gun for about 500 bucks at a LGS. Use the other 400 dollars for mags and ammo.

[orionz06]

To expand on that... I would think by now HK understands barrels and plastic frames and can extrapolate what they need to test and analyze the thing from more samples with fewer than 90k rounds. 90k is excessive when most customers, even most here, will put 10 cases or less through it.

[Rich]

So, heavy triggers are always bad, then?


I'm not a fan of a LW 1911 trigger.

[orionz06]

So, heavy triggers are always bad, then?

They can be, especially if the gun in question isn't the latest infatuation here. If the gun is then a heavy trigger may be just fine, at least for a few weeks.

[Sensei]

A good DA trigger pull should generally be 8-10 lbs. At least, those are the published specs from Sig, Beretta, and HK. Using a Timney trigger gauge, my P30 comes in at 10lbs, HK45 at 11.5, and HK45C at 13.8. That 13.8 is a real PITA and is the reason why I have gone to only condition 1 carry with these guns.

However, the real problem that I have is the reset which is several times longer than my SRT-equipped Sigs, 1911s, Glocks, etc. This reset makes it very difficult to float between my HK pistols and other platforms while maintaining consistent performance on speed drills such as the FAST.

[Magic_Salad0892]

Practical options:

Glock 19/17 Gen4
Walther PPQ
H&K VP9

Additional guns for consideration:

Beretta M9/92F
FN P35 Mk. III
CZ-75.

[JBP55]

Practical options:

Glock 19/17 Gen4
Walther PPQ
H&K VP9



Good group!

[Molon]

(2) trigger that is consistent with aprox. 4.5 to 5.5 lb. pull

Trigger pull per H&K's documentation = 5 pounds, six ounces.

Trigger pull measured = 4 pounds, 15 ounces.

https://app.box.com/shared/static/0caphpcpwt4goyge8g8y.jpg






(3) 4 to 41/2 inch barrel.

Measured barrel length = 4.093".

https://app.box.com/shared/static/0tgn1wdcl5yhnm4pkj2l.jpg






I have between small to medium hands.

Three different sets of backstraps and side panels to accommodate a large variety of hand sizes.

https://app.box.com/shared/static/22l2e3dzt3a30t82wnpw.jpg






I am willing to spend $900.

List price = $719






I am looking at (1) very good reliability

"HK. Because you suck. And we hate you."

... but they do make some of the most reliable handguns that I've ever tested.

[Psychlone]

Any of the three mentioned will work fine for you.

I would have no problems relying on a 9 mm Glock, M&P9, or 9 mm HK for self-defense.

Pick the one you shoot best.

Doc, haven't you said before that HK's customer service sucks though? Of the other two, Glock and Smith and Wesson, which company has the better customer service?

[Kyle Reese]

Doc, haven't you said before that HK's customer service sucks though? Of the other two, Glock and Smith and Wesson, which company has the better customer service?

Not speaking for Doc, but my brother broke his USP 45 a few months ago, and he was taken care of without delay or hassle.

[JMS]

It's fair to say that the HK (HKUSA in particular) of the 90s and early 2000s had a well-deserved reputation for not being particularly friendly to their end-users.

When the American military and other organizations stopped using MP5s, it's fair to say that (despite everybody loving the gun) it was an epic rage-quit over an indescribably bad lack of supply-support from the vendor.

That's changed in a big way. However, there's a great many FORMER customers of theirs who remember how things were, have legitimate gripes as a result, who are understandably reluctant objectively view said gripes as having become outdated, and have just as much voice-on-the-internet as anybody who's had legitimately good dealings with HK.

Glock and Smith.....? Having dealt with both, I'd put them on a par with one another, overall, as being very good.

[Doug]

If I were given three HK VP9's for free tomorrow, along with an unlimited supply of practice ammo in exchange for getting rid of all my other handguns, I'd have no issues doing so....

Are these capable of being milled for RDS or going back to irons only.

[David Armstrong]

Personally, if you have $900 to spend, buy two Glocks IMO. Happy, happy, happy.

[Default.mp3]

Are these capable of being milled for RDS or going back to irons only.


From looking at the pictures this thing appears to be very similar to a P30/P2000 so it will require an adapter for an RMR.
I find that there isn't much difference internally between the various HK slides I've put RMR's on. The differences are mostly in the profile of the slide and the location of the rear sight dovetail. Some have enough meat behind the dovetail for a new dovetail for a rear sight, others require me to fill the factory dovetail to give enough material.

To directly mount any optic will definitely require the rear dovetail to be filled as the slide can't be milled to the depth of the dovetail due to the safety plunger. This requires that the slide be refinished after the filler is brazed in place.

In the case of the adapter, the adapter makes up the length of the safety system with a milled spring capture pocket on the underside.

Someone called me today about this model so I may get to handle one directly ao I'll know for certain what can / can't be done.

Source: http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/handamp-k-vp9-striker-fired?reply=13402553191520849#13402553191520849

[DocGKR]

As noted, HK USA CS in the 1990's and early 2000's was abysmal. It is much better these days. However, HK LE support on the west coast remains virtually non-existent, particularly compared to S&W and Glock...

[gunrunner505]

Look into the FNS9. Impressive piece. The trigger is a little rough but it is a fantastic shooter. Excellent feel in the hand and dead nuts accurate. Took a class 2 weeks ago with a buddy of mine who has one, he missed top shooter in the qualifications, to me, by 1 point. Really nice pistol.

[Jack Ryan]

I need help in selecting a quality 9mm handgun for plinking & addition to my home defense system. I am willing to spend $900. I am looking at (1) very good reliability (2) trigger that is consistant with aprox. 4.5 to 5.5 lb. pull (3) 4 to 41/2 inch barrel. I have between small to medium hands. I held a Beretta 92f and didn't like the trigger because it is DA then single action. Thanks for all opinions & your time. Semper Fi Till I Die!

Try some of the 9mm 1911s.

[JAD]

I have specifically had good initial results with the Springfield Range Officer in 9x19. A full review will not happen for a while, but I like the pistol a lot.