1/2 ton V6 pickup opinions.

[pablo]

I'm looking at the current crop of Chevy/GM, Ford and Ram V6 half ton pickups. Any experience? Is the gas mileage any better than a V8? I drive slow and the heaviest thing I've hauled in the last 3 years is a yard of compost.

I had and still have access to a Chevy 3500hd, so if I need to do any serious towing or hauling i got that covered. That 8.1 drinks gas like koolaid, and I like being able to drive past gas stations. Used prices aren't that good at the moment and I've looked at "compact" trucks, but they're not that small anymore and cost as much as a half ton.

[TCinVA]

Speaking as somebody who has done the smaller-motor-in-big-vehicle thing before in personally owned vehicles, vehicles owned by family, and company vehicles, I regard the gas mileage thing is a bit of a scam.

It's possible to get the mileage figures claimed, but you have to spend your time behind the wheel driving specifically to achieve that number. If you drive like a normal person and not a hyper-miler, (meaning in a way that can actually be dangerous at times) you don't get the better gas mileage. Physics is physics, and trying to move 5,000+ pounds of truck or 4,000+ pounds of car in the way you'd want it to move in traffic is going to take power. This makes more demands on the smaller engine, moving it out of its optimal efficiency range. If you're dealing with a turbo'd motor, anytime you're on the boost you're not getting the mileage. When you put a load in it or you have to pass somebody going up the side of a mountain, the mileage sucks AND you slam right into the wall in the engine's power in a noticeable way.

Personally if I was going to buy a 1/2 ton pickup I'd skip the small motors and I'd go for a V8 hooked to preferably a manual transmission (because I can usually get pretty good mileage and the performance I want when I can pick my own gears) or one of the newer sophisticated umpteen-speed transmissions that's capable of delivering darn good mileage when you aren't demanding a lot from the engine. Those transmissions combined with tech like cylinder deactivation give you some pretty good mileage and because they have enough grunt to move such a big vehicle you'll actually get it in the real world. I've read a ton of reviews and owner experiences with 1/2 tons doing some research for family who is interested in buying one and not getting the advertised mileage on the smaller-engine variants is a common observation. (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/06/reader-ride-review-2014-ram-1500-v6-lonestar-edition/)

If it were me, I'd be looking at the V8 in any 1/2 ton I'd buy. If you drive one sensibly they can perform very well considering the sheer bulk of what you're trying to move, especially with all the neat efficiency tech available today...but when you need the power it's there and it makes a noticeable difference in moving the vehicle to pass, merge on the interstate, haul even moderate loads up the side of a mountain, etc.

If you spend 99% of the time driving on perfectly flat highways by yourself at an extremely relaxed pace with no real acceleration requirements and nothing in the bed, the turbo'd 1/2 ton might make sense.

...but if that's the case, why buy such a beast? If you only rarely need a truck to be, well, a truck and you have a bruiser to handle that sort of chore already, why not buy a car or crossover designed for highway cruising? It would probably be considerably less expensive to do so to boot.

My 3 drachmas.

EDIT - and for the sake of clarity I'm referring to two otherwise identical vehicles off the lot right now. A new V6 turbo'd F150 might well do better than an older F150 in terms of performance and mileage, especially one of the ones with the rather small V8's Ford was sticking in them some years ago. That's not an apples to apples comparison, though.

[ranger]

I am curious to see what will happen with the diesel engines in the 1/2 PU. I know Dodge has a diesel option now and I saw that Nissan was going to offer a diesel 1/2 ton. I will be interested in the responses for this thread.

[orionz06]

I can't put any numbers to it but I know my dad has a 2013 F-150 with their turbo 6 in it and the mileage "clobbers the snot outta the old chevy"... He had a Dakota and full size Chevy previously. He'll tow an enclosed trailer with a Harley or a camper and frequently mentioned the lack of power from the Dodge and poopy mileage from the Chevy. Without numbers I know he is quite pleased with the Ford though. Take a better look (and get real numbers).

[RevolverRob]

The only V6 in a half-ton worth considering is the Ford, in my not so humble opinion, and the only one in that line is the Ecoboost. The Ecoboost is a twin-turbo motor, tons of power potential and they make as much power and torque today as V8s of the past, turbos are typically more efficient (in terms of power production and fuel efficiency). Downsides of turbo motors are the need to get them properly warmed up before getting into boost and turbo motors take more oil and consume oil between oil changes (not much, my turbo car consumes about 1-quart between 5k mile oil changes).

Honestly, though if you want a truck with good mileage and great quality the Toyota Tacoma is probably the best choice. It's not a half-ton, but it doesn't sound like you're doing a ton of hauling anyways. The 4.0 Liter V6 and 6speed manual makes for an absolutely fantastic truck with good mileage. The quality of the Tacomas and Tundras exceeds anything the domestic folks are producing.

-Rob

[JM Campbell]

I am curious to see what will happen with the diesel engines in the 1/2 PU. I know Dodge has a diesel option now and I saw that Nissan was going to offer a diesel 1/2 ton. I will be interested in the responses for this thread.

1/2 ton and Frontier small truck. Motors will be Cummins 6 (1/2 ton) and 4 cylinder (Frontier).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-tyw-Lij7M

[fixer]

Physics is physics, and trying to move 5,000+ pounds of truck or 4,000+ pounds of car in the way you'd want it to move in traffic is going to take power. This makes more demands on the smaller engine, moving it out of its optimal efficiency range. If you're dealing with a turbo'd motor, anytime you're on the boost you're not getting the mileage. When you put a load in it or you have to pass somebody going up the side of a mountain, the mileage sucks AND you slam right into the wall in the engine's power in a noticeable way.

.

Man I wish more folks understood this. As someone who used to design powertrains for an OEM, this was something that always bothered me. The small engine equipped vehicle becomes substantially more efficient when it is moving at a steady speed like highway runs for hours and hours. Once you introduce acceleration the engine will use damn near as much fuel as a large v-8.

I once drove a Kia Soul (2.0L 4 cyl) up hill into a 45+ mph headwind and the damn thing never went below 5000 rpm. After 1 hour? fuel mileage = 13 mpg. I almost went backward a few times.

There are a ton a variables involved in fuel mileage but cubic inches gets conflated to the point of migraines.

However, that being said, Ford and Toyota V-6s are building stout v-6 engines these days. I'd pick between those two personally.

[TCinVA]

Man I wish more folks understood this. As someone who used to design powertrains for an OEM, this was something that always bothered me. The small engine equipped vehicle becomes substantially more efficient when it is moving at a steady speed like highway runs for hours and hours. Once you introduce acceleration the engine will use damn near as much fuel as a large v-8.

I once drove a Kia Soul (2.0L 4 cyl) up hill into a 45+ mph headwind and the damn thing never went below 5000 rpm. After 1 hour? fuel mileage = 13 mpg. I almost went backward a few times.

There are a ton a variables involved in fuel mileage but cubic inches gets conflated to the point of migraines.

However, that being said, Ford and Toyota V-6s are building stout v-6 engines these days. I'd pick between those two personally.

I usually break it down for folks in terms of something they can easily understand...lifting heavy weights. Take two dudes. Dude A deadlifts 600 pounds, dude B deadlifts 300. Both can lift 250 pounds, but dude A is using a lot less effort to do so. Given the same vehicle and drivetrain configuration, the smaller engine is going to have to work harder to achieve the same result and that will usually negate any MPG advantage using "normal" driving. Personally I can't stand hyper-miling and I'd rather pull my own teeth with a pair of old pliers than be sentenced to doing it behind the wheel in hopes of making the math I did when considering the purchase work out.

[Drang]

I just want Uncle Sam to allow the import of the Toyota Hilux Turbo Diesel, AKA the "Top Gear Special." Is that too much to ask?

[JV_]

I just want Uncle Sam to allow the import of the Toyota Hilux Turbo Diesel, AKA the "Top Gear Special." Is that too much to ask?

People have been asking for that for over 15 years, it seems unlikely to change.

[RoyGBiv]

People have been asking for that for over 15 years, it seems unlikely to change.

Add the Land Rover Defender to that list, although there's some noise about a 2015 version that could appear in the US, albeit with a gas engine.

[LOKNLOD]

I just want Uncle Sam to allow the import of the Toyota Hilux Turbo Diesel, AKA the "Top Gear Special." Is that too much to ask?

You can get one, just needs to be old enough. Might open up options as a mail carrier. http://www.landcruisersdirect.com/#1984-1170

Relevant to the OP, a couple years ago I drove a new '11 Dodge 1500 quad-cab 2wd for about 6 months and 11,000 miles for work (it was a rental for a long term project). It had the 4.7 V8 with cylinder management. I was impressed with the mileage I got out of it. On a return trip from houston to OKC, my running average was right at 22mpg. However I'm a pretty easy driver on the highway - when I pushed it hard, or spent lots of time in traffic, it still sucked gas.

Meanwhile, my V6 '08 Tacoma 4x4 has a lifetime running average, per my 6-year-long spreadsheet, of just under 18mpg.

[TheTrevor]

I just want Uncle Sam to allow the import of the Toyota Hilux Turbo Diesel, AKA the "Top Gear Special." Is that too much to ask?

The Tundra will be available with a 5.0L 300hp/500ft-lb Cummins diesel starting next year. Serious increases to CAFE targets in 2025 = strong interest in high-efficiency turbocharged gas and diesel engines for upcoming truck/SUV platform updates.

I'd really like a ~3.0L turbodiesel in a Tacoma, personally...

[pablo]

I've done the diesel thing before. With the current emissions equipment, I won't be doing that again. Unless I was doing a lot of heavy towing and accumulating lots of highway miles, IMO it's just not worth it. For my driving, which is mostly short trips and city driving, the diesel was always in regen, which killed fuel economy. I bought the truck as a certified preowned with 1,500 miles, the DPF was burned out at 11k and was replaced under warranty. I sold it right after that and got the 8.1. I like the idea diesel, I don't think the reality of 07+ diesels are all they're cracked up to be. My city's water department finally got around to replacing their 7.3 Powerstrokes with 6.7's and due to repair cost are dropping diesels altogether for the 6.2L gas. There was never a break even cost on diesel, lots of idling and city driving was killing the emissions equipment.

I went by the Chevy dealership and they lets me borrow a loaner V6 double cab Silverado overnight. Put 300 miles on it. Drove up to Oklahoma and average 23 mpg freeway at 70mph, and 21 on the backroads on the way back. It gets into the torque very early, but the torque curve is pretty flat across the rpm band. I was impressed with the power. Obviously not a big V8, but it didn't feel like the old haphazard V6 which was just a V8 with two cylinders lopped off.

I wouldn't mind a Tacoma but finding a V6, that's not loaded 4x4 crew cab is near impossible. Dropping 40K on a compact pickup is out of the question for me.

[SecondsCount]

TCinVA makes some valid points about mileage and small engines. Basically, if you are looking for fuel economy buy a mid-sized car, otherwise there is only a couple MPG difference between the 1/2 tons on the market. When I went looking for a compact truck in 2002, I compared the Tacoma V6 to the 4 cylinder. There was only about 10% difference between the two in mileage, the big savings was the difference between 4WD and 2WD.

A guy I work with and a customer have purchased the Ford F150 with the Ecoboost. Neither are impressed with the fuel economy but both of them are heavy footed and the trucks are fully loaded four door models. Numbers I have heard are 13 city, 17 highway. I am sure that if you drive 55 that you can get into the 20's but the speed limits around here are between 65 and 80 so that is the speed they drive.

[1slow]

One reason I do not drive my V10 4x4 .430 axle Excursion more than I need to. 10.5 MPG at 80 MPH.

[TheTrevor]

I wouldn't mind a Tacoma but finding a V6, that's not loaded 4x4 crew cab is near impossible. Dropping 40K on a compact pickup is out of the question for me.

I have a 2002 Tacoma double cab, and it amuses me that the current-gen Tacoma DCs would be considered full-size trucks by pre-2000 standards, yet are "compact" trucks in today's market.

[NickDrak]

My 2012 F-150 w/EcoBoost averages 15-16mpg in the city and 20 on the highway. Just returned from a short road trip (400mi round trip) On the highway I averaged 20.2mpg driving 70-80mph with the A/C on.

[superr.stu]

My '08 Titan has been great granted a v8, but i get 20 highway if I'm somewhat behaved. For off-road or towing I would take it any day over my '08 Silverado work truck. I'm of the opinion that if you have a actual reason for needing a full sized truck you will probably need a full sized engine as well. While my needs are probably different than yours, I'm in harsh enough stuff often enough that the last thing I need is a engine not putting out enough for me. If I were in the market for a truck today I'd look at the F-150, Nissan Titan, or Toyota Tundra. If I was dead set on a v6 I'd look at a Nissan Frontier, or F-150.

[David S.]

My 2012 F-150 w/EcoBoost averages 15-16mpg in the city and 20 on the highway. Just returned from a short road trip (400mi round trip) On the highway I averaged 20.2mpg driving 70-80mph with the A/C on.

About what I get with my 07 Tacoma PreRunner.

[NickDrak]

About what I get with my 07 Tacoma PreRunner.

I got 365hp doe :p

[SJC3081]

You can get a a Tacoma 4x4 double cab sport long bed for $30,000 that will haul 1/2 ton.

[David S.]

I got 365hp doe :p

That was actually my point.

[bofe954]

Tacoma and Frontier haven't had any drivetrain updates for about 10 years. With the colorado coming back, both will be new in the next year or two. They will have more power and better mileage than the current models, and the current models will be on sale. If you want a truck with a little better mileage than the current V8 fullsize trucks, I'd try and wait at least a year. By this time next year there could be an aluminum bodied F150, new Colorado, Canyon (with and without diesel), new Frontier (maybe with and without diesel) and Tacoma, full size toyota and nissan may have diesel. Chevy may have stop/start tech added to the V8's.

Of the V6 full size now, I'd want to try chevy, just for the fact that the 4.3 is designed to be a truck engine, not a car engine dropped in a truck like the Dodge, Ford and the coming Colorado.

[TheTrevor]

The Tacoma has gone from a 3.4L V6 with a 4-speed automatic to a 4.0L V6 with a 5-speed. Not sure what basis there is for asserting "no drivetrain updates in 10 years".

[JDM]

The Tacoma has gone from a 3.4L V6 with a 4-speed automatic to a 4.0L V6 with a 5-speed. Not sure what basis there is for asserting "no drivetrain updates in 10 years".
6 speed manual instead of 5 speed manual also.

[bofe954]

The Tacoma has gone from a 3.4L V6 with a 4-speed automatic to a 4.0L V6 with a 5-speed. Not sure what basis there is for asserting "no drivetrain updates in 10 years".

This is from wiki, the guy that wrote it might not be the tacoma guru you are:

On February 4, 2004 at the Chicago Auto Show, Toyota unveiled a bigger and more powerful Tacoma. This new Tacoma was available in eighteen different configurations, that included three cab configurations, four transmissions, two engines, and two bed lengths. The three cab configurations consist of regular cab, access cab, and double cab. The transmissions come in 4-speed automatic, 5-speed automatic, 5-speed manual, and 6-speed manual. Beds are: 6 ft (1.8 m) long bed, and 5 ft (1.5 m) short bed. The Tacoma's 4.0-liter 1GR-FE V6 took the place of the original 3.4-liter 5VZ-FE V6. The new V6 had many enhancements, such as a tow rating of 6,500 lb (2,948 kg), and a payload capacity of 1,650 lb (748 kg). It produces 236 horsepower (176 kW) and 266 lb·ft (361 N·m) of torque. The smaller, but all-new 2.7-liter 2TR-FE 4-cylinder alternative in less expensive models is rated at 159 hp (119 kW) and 180 lb·ft (244 N·m). of torque.

I'm not seeing much different from then to now. It may have technically been a 2005 Tacoma, so only be 9 years, whatever. 2014-2004 = 10 to me. I owned an '05 Frontier, nice little truck back then. They haven't done anything to change it.

Either way, I wouldn't buy Tacoma or Frontier right now unless it was a pretty steep discount, if I could possibly wait. This fall the Colorado will pop out with a 300hp V6 and a 6 speed auto, which is a pretty standard thing lately. It'll get better mileage than the Tacoma and Nissan. Toyota and Nissan will respond, and the buyer will benefit with either a more modern, efficient vehicle, or a discount on the old one.

The midsize trucks may also push changes in the fullsize trucks, who knows. My point is, if you can wait a year, do it.

[TheTrevor]

Fair enough. I've no dog in this fight, as I'm waiting for a diesel Toyota before buying my next truck.

[orionz06]

Fair enough. I've no dog in this fight, as I'm waiting for a diesel Toyota before buying my next truck.

Volkswagen Amarok

[TheTrevor]

Volkswagen Amarok

Might do. Looks interesting. I'd have to see what routine maintenance costs looked like, including stuff like brake rotors and suspension bits. That can be rough on the wallet with German vehicles owned long-term.

[SeriousStudent]

Volkswagen Amarok

Can you buy one in the US with a diesel engine?

[orionz06]

Can you buy one in the US with a diesel engine?

No. The rumors among the VAG folks are that it will be soon. VAG seems to understand the demand for such a truck and only seems to be toiling with the idea that Americans are stupid about brand and will hesitate and instead buy a truck that's not 'murikan.

[SeriousStudent]

No. The rumors among the VAG folks are that it will be soon. VAG seems to understand the demand for such a truck and only seems to be toiling with the idea that Americans are stupid about brand and will hesitate and instead buy a truck that's not 'murikan.

Thanks, I will keep an eye peeled.

[NickDrak]

VW? I'll never own another. Just make sure to get the extended warranty....and a surplus of extra bulbs.

[SeriousStudent]

VW? I'll never own another. Just make sure to get the extended warranty....and a surplus of extra bulbs.

Nick, are you talking about the electrical problems with the models produced in Mexico? I have read of a lot of problems in that regard.

[NickDrak]

Nick, are you talking about the electrical problems with the models produced in Mexico? I have read of a lot of problems in that regard.

My wife's 2004 passat was a basket case. Ignition coil issues, sludge build up, and I don't think all of the lights worked at the same time for more than a week before one of them burned out.

[SeriousStudent]

Gotcha. Hopefully this pickup will be built by former HK guys, in a wee little burg in Deutschland.