Sig P229 DAK

[GJM]

I have always liked revolver triggers, and would carry one more if they held more cartridges, were flatter and easier to reload. A PF member, friend and Sig enthusiast sent me a link to a used .229 DAK in .357 Sig a while back, at a crazy low price. Between the 229R (I have no railed 229 pistols), .357 Sig (which I have been considering for penetration on creatures) and the DAK, I figured it would be a fun, relatively inexpensive fun gun. Dry firing it, I loved the trigger. Shot 50 rounds of Ranger 125 bonded yesterday, mostly on dots, and just loved the trigger and cartridge.

The pistol was used in a federal training program, has an "AM" prefix serial number, and is prominently marked "85," presumably to differentiate it from pistol 84 and 86. My wife refers to my new pistol as the "85 car." She commented that the trigger felt better than her beloved Glock pistols, although she isn't switching anytime soon. I am going to mess around with it, and consider carrying it some this summer, around the four legged creatures.


http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/85car_zpsee7da0a2.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/85car_zpsee7da0a2.jpg.html)

[LSP552]

GJM,

I'm one of those old SIG guys who shake their head wondering why anyone would choose a new DAK over DA/SA. IMO, they suck the goodness right out of a SIG. I understand SIG's need to compete for consistent trigger pull contract requirements and the perception that DA/SA is hard to teach.

Having said that, I'd hop on a good deal also. Curious to see your assessment of how much it degrades your performance over DA/SA.

Ken

[Yute]

Awesome find! I just got Bruce Gray's Sig Armorer video and he speaks very highly about the DAK system. I believe the Gray Guns intermediate trigger will work with the DAK as well. This, along Todd's thoughts about the system, are making me seriously consider going down the DAK route.

[JonInWA]

I had a P229 DAK, and both the .40 and .357 SIG barrels for it-and in the (for me) desirable "classic" receiver (rounded triggerguard, no light rail). And with the original DAK "light" triggerpull weight. Once broken in (as I recall, it was good from the get-go in the .357 SIG incarnation, but took some 300-400 rounds with the .40 barrel to be glitch-free), it was reliable and accurate.

However, after having it for several years, I decided to divest myself of it. For what it was, I found the gun to be relatively heavy and bulky (as found when I used it as a carry gun while single-track mountain biking), and the DAK trigger really demanded significant commitment, if not near exclusivity to truly master and take advantage of. I've had at least two previous P229s (both DA/SA variants), and for whatever reason, they've never seemed to stick with me either.

I'm not at all implying that it's a bad gun, or that the DAK is a bad action choice. But I would suggest that to truly wring it out that you might be best to dedicating yourself primarily to it-and if you're comfortable with that level of commitment, I think you'll be very pleased with the results.

Or it can just be a "fun" gun-nothing wrong with that either.

Best, Jon

[GJM]

I am not planning on dedicating myself to the DAK system. I can seeing using it in very cold conditions, such as Alaska in the winter where I am wearing some types of gloves continuously when outside, as a launcher for .357 Sig, and for pure fun to experience the DAK.

Previously, I spent a number of years shooting revolvers as primary, and the DAK trigger felt very natural to me on this initial session. I purposefully short stroked it to the first reset point a few times, to see the "heavier" trigger, and didn't find it objectionable. No doubt it would be a lousy pistol to try to set PR's on Bill drills, but I found it very easy to get a surprise break with. I would love to shoot the Rogers School test with it, as I bet it rocks on transitions, and especially one hand shooting.

Just one session, but I thought it was at first blush an easier trigger to shoot than a LEM, as it was a rolling trigger of continuous weight, as opposed to the light weight take-up before hitting the wall of the LEM.

[LSP552]

Just one session, but I thought it was at first blush an easier trigger to shoot than a LEM, as it was a rolling trigger of continuous weight, as opposed to the light weight take-up before hitting the wall of the LEM.



I've only had a few sessions with a LEM, but I'd agree. The LEM's light take-up and the wall really messed with my trigger control at speed. I know folks like attributes of both systems not related to pure shooting performance, and I understand that. Glad I shot LSP792's HKs a few times before I went down that road.

Ken

[LtDave]

I have a 229R DAK in .40 and enjoy shooting it. If you come from a revolver background, you will feel right at home. I took mine to a DPS qualification day and out shot all the guys with traditional P226 DA/SA guns. You really need a set of Nill's specifically for the DAK. I found a set on Gunbroker and love them.

[LSP972]

GJM,

I'm one of those old SIG guys who shake their head wondering why anyone would choose a new DAK over DA/SA. IMO, they suck the goodness right out of a SIG.

Ditto; big time.

That bizarre double reset is one of the most egregious triggers I've ever had to work with. When I went to work for a Sheriff's office as a range rat when I retired, the issue piece for the road deputies was P226R DAKs.

I'm glad you like it, but the FIRST thing I would do with it would be to order a DA/SA kit from TGS… along with a new set of stocks…:D

.

[LSP972]

If you come from a revolver background, you will feel right at home.

Well, LSP552 and I come from a revolver background; ten years worth of training and quals before we got the go-ahead to start semi-auto transitions; and neither one of us would give a nickle for a truckload of DAKs.

Its all relative…;)

.

[GJM]

Ditto; big time.

That bizarre double reset is one of the most egregious triggers I've ever had to work with. When I went to work for a Sheriff's office as a range rat when I retired, the issue piece for the road deputies was P226R DAKs.

I'm glad you like it, but the FIRST thing I would do with it would be to order a DA/SA kit from TGS… along with a new set of stocks…:D

.

I have plenty of Sig DA/SA pistols. I bought this one specifically because it was DAK. So far I like the trigger, because it feels like a revolver trigger and I flip and press, but we will see.

Now, the "85 grips," we may be in agreement on!

[LSP972]

Hey, not criticizing your choice; variety can be good. Heck, I just bought a couple of DA/SA P229s, after ten years of pretty much nothing but HK LEMs. Going "retro", if you will…

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned the DAK just bites, period. I realize that opinion is not universally held…;)

.

[GJM]

Hey, not criticizing your choice; variety can be good. Heck, I just bought a couple of DA/SA P229s, after ten years of pretty much nothing but HK LEMs. Going "retro", if you will…

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned the DAK just bites, period. I realize that opinion is not universally held…;)

.

Since you and Boudreaux obviously have considerable DAK experience, other than the double reset, what don't you like about the trigger?

[LSP552]

Since you and Boudreaux obviously have considerable DAK experience, other than the double reset, what don't you like about the trigger?

I won't claim considerable experience with the DAK. I have had access to factory T&E guns when SIG was trying to push those on LSP before the transition to Glocks. While I wasn't actively involved with firearms training by then, I was asked for an opinion on the DAK and given the opportunity to put them through their paces.

The DA/SA SIG with SRT is one of the most shootable platforms on the planet. The DA pull is not the horrible problem many would say, transitioning between DA/SA a non-issue and decocking is easily incorporated into a comprehensive training program. The DAK, IMO, compromises the best feature of the SIG platform, a 4 - 4.5 lb. trigger with a reset shorter than a Glock.

A well tuned DA/SA SRT is usable accuracy at speed in a bottle. A DAK, at least in my hands, is significantly less so.

And I like the limited edition grips:)

Ken

[45dotACP]

Soon to be in the classifieds? A set of 85 grips! Getem while you can!

All things considered though, I truly do wonder what it would look like to see Jerry Miculek or some other hotshot revo guy run a DAK in production division or SSP.

[GJM]

If someone "made me" shoot a DAK, I would probably feel wronged. Since it is my choice, and I am under no requirement to go solo with the DAK, it is great fun mixed with some part challenge.

Don't tell Bolke, but since I got home to Alaska all my "fun" pistols, as in 9mm CZ and Beretta pistols, are in the range bag, but I am carrying a Glock 20/29 OWB, or an HK USP Compact 45 LEM AIWB, because striker pistols appendix are giving me the heebie jeebies now after shooting DA/SA pistols since the first of the year.

This is my "work" desk. Fun to the right -- a mint Centurion and Vertec, a P07 worked over by Stuart at CZ Custom, and the 85. To the left is my carry gun.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/funandserious_zps8f0f9f12.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/funandserious_zps8f0f9f12.jpg.html)

[Trooper224]

I had the great misfortune to be saddled with a P226 with a DAK trigger for about five years. When I transfered to my current assignment I gave up the standard issue Glock 21 and was issued the 226. They had used the HK P7 for years and had recently switched to the Sig. At first I was happy, prefering Sig pistols to the Austrian squirt gun. I'd originally carried a P220 when I hired on with the state and thought highly of it. At first I didn't give the DAK trigger much thought. Afterall, I'd spent years shooting double action revolvers so no big whup. Was I wrong. The DAK trigger has an entirely different draw stroke when compared to a DA revolver. I worked with it enough to get proficient with it, but precise shooting was far more difficult than it should have been. The pistol was so widely hated by the entire division that it was finally replaced last year with the Glock 22. I was glad to go back to the Glock for the trigger alone and I'm not a plastic fantastic fanboy. I hope yours works for you, but there's a reason why it's Sig lowest selling variant. It's always nice to have a project and if it isn't being forced upon you it should be a fun challenge.

[LSP972]

Since you and Boudreaux obviously have considerable DAK experience, other than the double reset, what don't you like about the trigger?

That's it (the double reset). It messes with my head.

The concept of a continuous trigger-cocking action (usually referred to- and improperly so, IMO- as "double action only" [DAO]) is a good one. But the execution is everything with these. S&W spent a LOT of money developing their version of this for the Third Generation pistols, and it showed. Those guns had/have a relatively short stroke, but more importantly, it is SMOOTH and consistent. And I'll wager it is so because the guys who developed it had a lot of experience with trigger cocking actions via revolvers.

The Europeans don't do well with this idea. HKs first attempt at it was so absolutely horrible, I doubt they sold a thousand of them in this country, if that. BTW, there are some of these out there, so beware. This abortion spawned the LEM, which, while not exactly in the same ballpark as a true 'DAO", it IS in the same zip code.

Anyway… I have asked several Sig folks "Why the double reset???" All claimed to have no clue. I think it is because they did not want to re-design the sear mechanism, and the double reset is a by-product of that. I can tell you with assurance that the whole genre of this continuous trigger-cocking action is a direct result of trying to woo the U.S. LE market. S&W started that ball rolling back in the early 90s, had much success with it, and once LE administrators had bought into the idea, the race was on.

More than one police administrator (one of whom I know, and was standing there when he said it- and he should know better) called those early S&W trigger-cocking only pistols a "15 shot revolver". That gave me gas then, and still does now. But there can be no doubt those pistols did indeed speed up the process of U.S. LE accepting semi-autos as a viable tool. However, that's another story for another discussion. Sorry for the drift.

Again, what I despise about that trigger is the double reset; and the fact that you have to let it out to the second reset point to get the lighter pull. You can shoot it from the first reset point, but the pull will be considerably heavier.

All of this can be overcome- to a degree- by training and time on the gun. As an experienced shooter, you should have no issues with it and have probably already figured out how to shoot it best (go to the second reset but STOP there and commence pressure for the next shot).

In my experience, it took a LOT more work and ammunition to bring a mediocre (i.e., an average cop) shooter to a given level of performance with the DAK than any other action type I've worked with… and as Ken can attest to, we've worked with just about all of them at one point or another.

Basically, I would pick just about anything else in the "point'n'pull" genre over a DAK. But it CAN be learned. I think you will enjoy learning it. I also think you will NOT decide to stay with it…;)

.

[JonInWA]

That's it (the double reset). It messes with my head.

The concept of a continuous trigger-cocking action (usually referred to- and improperly so, IMO- as "double action only" [DAO]) is a good one. But the execution is everything with these. S&W spent a LOT of money developing their version of this for the Third Generation pistols, and it showed. Those guns had/have a relatively short stroke, but more importantly, it is SMOOTH and consistent. And I'll wager it is so because the guys who developed it had a lot of experience with trigger cocking actions via revolvers.

The Europeans don't do well with this idea. HKs first attempt at it was so absolutely horrible, I doubt they sold a thousand of them in this country, if that. BTW, there are some of these out there, so beware. This abortion spawned the LEM, which, while not exactly in the same ballpark as a true 'DAO", it IS in the same zip code.

Anyway… I have asked several Sig folks "Why the double reset???" All claimed to have no clue. I think it is because they did not want to re-design the sear mechanism, and the double reset is a by-product of that. I can tell you with assurance that the whole genre of this continuous trigger-cocking action is a direct result of trying to woo the U.S. LE market. S&W started that ball rolling back in the early 90s, had much success with it, and once LE administrators had bought into the idea, the race was on.

More than one police administrator (one of whom I know, and was standing there when he said it- and he should know better) called those early S&W trigger-cocking only pistols a "15 shot revolver". That gave me gas then, and still does now. But there can be no doubt those pistols did indeed speed up the process of U.S. LE accepting semi-autos as a viable tool. However, that's another story for another discussion. Sorry for the drift.

Again, what I despise about that trigger is the double reset; and the fact that you have to let it out to the second reset point to get the lighter pull. You can shoot it from the first reset point, but the pull will be considerably heavier.

All of this can be overcome- to a degree- by training and time on the gun. As an experienced shooter, you should have no issues with it and have probably already figured out how to shoot it best (go to the second reset but STOP there and commence pressure for the next shot).

In my experience, it took a LOT more work and ammunition to bring a mediocre (i.e., an average cop) shooter to a given level of performance with the DAK than any other action type I've worked with… and as Ken can attest to, we've worked with just about all of them at one point or another.

Basically, I would pick just about anything else in the "point'n'pull" genre over a DAK. But it CAN be learned. I think you will enjoy learning it. I also think you will NOT decide to stay with it…;)

.

That pretty much summed up my personal experience and was one of the key factors leading to my divesting myself of my P229 DAK. It just was kind of a hermaphrodite reset that on paper kind of made sense (or wasn't unworkable), but in reality really screwed with your mind, unless you were really willing to dedicate yourself to it. I wasn't.

Currently, my wilderness carry needs are met with either my Glock G34 carrying 9mm Winchester Ranger 127 gr +P+ rounds (which given the round combined with the G34's slide length amping up the velocity pretty much takes things to .357 SIG territory ballistically/performance-wise) or my G21 with situationally-appropriate .45 ACP load. Eventually I'd like to get something in .357 SIG chambering, but not until the cartridge becomes more easily available (and at reasonable prices)-if I was to choose today, a Glock G22 with a .357 SIG barrel would probably make the most sense.

Best, Jon

[Rich]

, I found the gun to be relatively heavy and bulky (as found when I used it as a carry gun while single-track mountain biking), and the DAK trigger really demanded significant commitment

Best, Jon

Heavy and Bulky ?

I would agree if comparing to a polymer pistol like the G19.

For some strange reason I shoot heavy bulky revolvers and pistols well compare to LW revolvers and pistols.
Using 38spl+P only
Ruger GP100 3inch
S&W 686 - 2.5 inch

S&W 5906 9mm around 38oz
Sig P229 40S&W 32oz



DAK P229 ? Does anyone know if the Coast Guards P229R DAK has been issued with the -1 Slide ?

I haven't got to try a DAK or a LEM but love the DA trigger from S&W

[HCM]

None of the DHS contract guns use the -1 slide. All are pre 2010 / short extractor.

[GJM]

I like my well used DAK so much, I found a never issued, like new 229R DAK .357 on GB, for a very low price.

Unfortunately it came with a short trigger, which will have to go as it pinches my finger. The big thing is the DAK trigger is considerably heavier than on the number "85." Is that just a function of not being shot in, and it should get as good as the 85's trigger with time, or did Sig change something? I can't imagine the 85 got a trigger job, or switch from stock springs, given how it was used.

[John Hearne]

Sig had some ignition reliability problems with early DAKs. (reduced hammer mass u think). This led to a special DAK uninspiring in later guns. IIRC, the heavier is red but I'd have to check references to be sure.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

[GJM]

Sig had some ignition reliability problems with early DAKs. (reduced hammer mass u think). This led to a special DAK uninspiring in later guns. IIRC, the heavier is red but I'd have to check references to be sure.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk


John, my "85" was used by a Federal agency as a training gun, and has an "AM" serial number. Would you expect it would have been "upgraded," or its trigger is just shot in?

[JonInWA]

Sig had some ignition reliability problems with early DAKs. (reduced hammer mass u think). This led to a special DAK uninspiring in later guns. IIRC, the heavier is red but I'd have to check references to be sure.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

In my experience with my sample size of 1, it was more of a break-in issue, particularly with those chambered in .40 (I had no initial issues when using .357 SIG in the gun-I had both the .40 and the .357 SIG barrels with the gun-it was a special deal from SIG coming with both barrels). The issues tended to go away after some 300-400 rounds of .40 through the pipe. The heavier spring SIG ended up going with resolved the possibility of the initial issues out-of-the-box, but penalized you with the significantly heavier triggerpull forever after.

Best, Jon

[John Hearne]

John, my "85" was used by a Federal agency as a training gun, and has an "AM" serial number. Would you expect it would have been "upgraded," or its trigger is just shot in?

I don't have any way to know. Red paint or remnants of red paint on the mainspring would be most indicative of the more stout mainspring.

[HCM]

John, my "85" was used by a Federal agency as a training gun, and has an "AM" serial number. Would you expect it would have been "upgraded," or its trigger is just shot in?

GJM,

Been meaning to tell you - I love the hat!

Re DAKs-John H is spot on (as usual) re SIG increasing the mainspring spring / pull weight after reliability issues on some early DAKs. the new spring usually increases the trigger pull by about 2lbs. You can always try a lighter spring on your latest acquisition. None of the DHS contract .GOV DAK guns I've seen (including ICE, USCG and U.S. Federal Protective Service (FPS)) have had the red spring and they run fine.

Do you have a source or details on the claim that "85" was a fed agency training gun? There was a dealer here in central Texas selling these guns claiming they were former FAM guns, however, another large dealer from Fort Worth (SAW) had guns from the same batch, with the same "white out" grip markings, and stated they were PD trade ins from a TX PD. One of my co-workers bought either "24" or "26". He picked up a .40 barrel for it- shoots great.

There are a couple issues with the claim that these are former Fed or FAMS guns. Back in the mid 1990's, Prez Clinton issued an executive order forbidding the sale or transfer of federal LE weapons to private ownership. Maybe "85" was owned by a contractor but for which agency ? The only federal .357 SIG users I'm aware of ( FAMS, USSS and formerly FPS) all use TDA guns.

All the DHS contract DAK guns I've seen have the short trigger. PM me if you want to swap your short trigger for a standard.

[HCM]

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr324/hcm3156/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_60601.jpg

[GJM]

GJM,

Been meaning to tell you - I love the hat!

Re DAKs-John H is spot on (as usual) re SIG increasing the mainspring spring / pull weight after reliability issues on some early DAKs. the new spring usually increases the trigger pull by about 2lbs. You can always try a lighter spring on your latest acquisition. None of the DHS contract .GOV DAK guns I've seen (including ICE, USCG and U.S. Federal Protective Service (FPS)) have had the red spring and they run fine.

Do you have a source or details on the claim that "85" was a fed agency training gun? There was a dealer here in central Texas selling these guns claiming they were former FAM guns, however, another large dealer from Fort Worth (SAW) had guns from the same batch, with the same "white out" grip markings, and stated they were PD trade ins from a TX PD. One of my co-workers bought either "24" or "26". He picked up a .40 barrel for it- shoots great.

There are a couple issues with the claim that these are former Fed or FAMS guns. Back in the mid 1990's, Prez Clinton issued an executive order forbidding the sale or transfer of federal LE weapons to private ownership. Maybe "85" was owned by a contractor but for which agency ? The only federal .357 SIG users I'm aware of ( FAMS, USSS and formerly FPS) all use TDA guns.

All the DHS contract DAK guns I've seen have the short trigger. PM me if you want to swap your short trigger for a standard.

The hat is a good natured attempt to keep up with Jody. I may not be able to out grapple him, but my hat sure is bigger than his.

I got the DAK from a guy that often sells Sig pistols thru the Sig Forum classifieds. I am foggy as to what exactly he said now, but it has an "AM" prefix serial number and the "85" grips. Seemed like it was used in an environment they had a bunch of them in a training environment given the big, white numbers. I didn't buy it based on any specific claim -- just I was looking for .357 and DAK in a 229R frame. TLG also told me that FAMs used TDA not DAK.

I would be happy to trade triggers, as the short one pinches my trigger finger. Need to get back with my buddy Taadski, who will likely switch the trigger out, as I am only Glock capable with a smidge of Sig tech knowledge. So, my heavier DAK is a function of the hammer spring -- if so, is it the same as used in a TDA 229, and what weight should I go to?

[JodyH]

I may not be able to out grapple him, but my hat sure is bigger than his.
That's what she said.

[TumblinDown]

...it has an "AM" prefix serial number and the "85" grips.

This list (http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/7320040262) has a good number of "AM" SIG P229 serial numbers may give you a clue as to "birth" year:

AM1xxx9-3/03-.40, Blue box,(3)12rd LEO mags and night sights. Grips marked March 2003, P229R DAK
AM17XXX-2/04-.40 S&W DA/SA Nitron w/NS. Picked up by me like new 7/08
AM33XXX-7/05-LEO weapon, Nitron, .40; DA/SA NS, 3 mags Purchased 07/06
AM43XXX-5/06-.40, Equinox
AM45xxx-8/05-Nitron w/ Nightsites,Blue box; 2x 12 rnd mags
AM53XXX-8/05, mags dated 1/06 and 4/06, grips dated 8/05 and 4/06, P229R DAK .357 Blue case,
AM54XXX-?/??-40,German SAS frame approximately 2006
AM66XXX-4/07 E-29R B, Nitron, no grip dates, mag dates 6/06. Blue box two mags blue cable lock.
AM75XXX-?/?? 229 Elite Stainless .40, 2-12 round mags,nite sites,rail,blue boxpurchased 07/09.
AM77XXX-2/08(from box)-40,E29-40-SSS Stainless, no rail,
AM81XXX-Platinum Elite .40 -2007
AM82XXX-3/08-.40 Stainless Elite
AM85XXX-4/08, E29R-40- Nitron Elite
AM87XXX-2/08, E29R-40- Stainless Steel Elite
AM103XXX-11/08-.357(has a DE after all the numbers)date on mags is 1/08 (3 mags)
Date on blue box is 11/18/08 no rail
AM109XXX-8/09-LEO weapon, Nitron, .40 DAK; NS; 3 mags
AM112XXX-12/09(from box),40, blue box. TTone
AM115XXX-4/09-.40/.357, Nitron, slite, one mag, Blue plastic box
AM116XXX-03/09, E29R-40 Date from case, no grip date
AM119XXXX-1/09, 9mm, Nitron, Contrast Sights
AM120XXX-3/09-9mm Blue case, night sights,P229R DAK (E29R-9), Nitron, P229R, 9mm, Nitron, Contrast Sights
AM126XXX-4/09(from box),9mm,SCT,blue box, no grip dates
AM155XXX-6/09-.40 Stainless Elite, blue box, DE stamped above the serial number.
AM161XXX-10/09-.40 Cal, Nitron, night sights, NIB.

[GJM]

This list (http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/7320040262) has a good number of "AM" SIG P229 serial numbers may give you a clue as to "birth" year:


AM33XXX-7/05-LEO weapon, Nitron, .40; DA/SA NS, 3 mags Purchased 07/06



AM 305, so looks like a 2005 model.

[HCM]

AM 305, so looks like a 2005 model.

The gun my co-worker purchased had '05 night sights till we swapped them out - will get the S/N prefix tomorrow

[HCM]

The gun my co-worker purchased had '05 night sights till we swapped them out - will get the S/N prefix tomorrow

Co-workers gun is AM28xxx- so it's 2005 Vintage as well. At time of purchase, the dealer ( SAW) stated they were from Grapevine ,TX PD. That's in the DFW area. Maybe Nyeti or Wayne Dobbs can shed some light on the provenance of these weapons.

Standard p229 hammer spring is 24lbs - Wolfe has a variety of lighter springs available. Need to do some digging to get the original DAK spring weight.

[GJM]

Sig had some ignition reliability problems with early DAKs. (reduced hammer mass u think). This led to a special DAK uninspiring in later guns. IIRC, the heavier is red but I'd have to check references to be sure.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

Just got around to looking, and the spring in the newer 229 with the heavier DAK trigger is red.

Older 229, #85, with the good trigger, does not have a red spring. No ignition problems experienced in 85, through 150 rounds of Winchester Ranger Bonded.

Recommendation on what weight to replace the red spring with, and is it the same as a DA/SA spring?

[John Hearne]

Recommendation on what weight to replace the red spring with, and is it the same as a DA/SA spring?

Sig is very good about using the same parts across the product line unless something special is needed. For instance, the DAK uses almost all standard parts except for the sear spring and main spring (and the obvious DAK parts). Any standard Sig mainspring for the system you have (I'm assuming plastic mainspring seat) should work.

The Top Gun site shows two main springs, one for the DAK guns and one for the DA/SA, DAO guns. I'd just get the normal spring unless you want to drop below standard weight. I've been able to drop mainsprings in DA/SA guns to 19lbs without any reliability issues. Some have gone as low as 17 lbs but I'd test whatever I wanted to install.

http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-mainsprings-seats/

[FotoTomas]

I will add some additional thoughts and info.

My first experience with the DAK came from transition training from our issued Beretta 92D to SIG 229R DAK models. The first forty pistols that came in had 25 of the AM122xxx serial numbers as well as 15 of the AFU prefix. All were Nitron 9mm guns with night sights, short triggers, standard grips, magazine disconnect locking blocks and issued 13 round magazines.
One of the AFU prefix guns broke a barrel (sheared the block off the bottom of the barrel) after 1500 rounds with one of our instructors at a class. I sent it back to SIG and was repaired post haste. About a year later SIG sent us new barrels for ALL of our AFU guns and requested we return the old barrels to them. I gather they had more than one barrel mess up from other users. We tended to call the AFU guns "All F!@#$% UP". I have some photos on the work computer and will try to post when I get back off extended sick leave.

I have owned a plethora of SIG TDA's and Two DAO as well as several DAK. I am NOT a fan of the TDA, Liked my DAO 228 and 229 but sold them and LOVE the DAK trigger in my 9mm duty gun and personal 229 as well. I still prefer my Beretta D models to any SIG however and prefer the GLOCK safe action over all as my personal favorite.

My issued pistol, AM 1227XX has been my duty weapon since August 2010. We went with the DAK and I transitioned into it well. The two different types of trigger manipulation were mentioned only as an option for a restrike capability and not emphasized. My current personal SIG for off duty carry is also DAK with disconnect and I use it for liability reasons. As I get closer to retirement it will get sold off and I will keep my K frame revolvers, Beretta D's and GLOCK pistols in the house.

I am however someone that prefers the SIG DAK over the SIG DAO since the SIG DAO was heavier and harder than my Berettas and the DAK was issued. Proof that you can learn to live with and love what gets issued without your input.

[Niksurm]

I've been using the DAK Sigs since 06 and the LEM HK's since 03. I'll never go back to a DA/SA again. Once you get good at a DAO system and can appreciate the simplicity of it, it becomes a very easy pill to swallow.

There is a lot of misinformation regarding the DAK trigger mechanism. Throw a little improper training into the mix and you will get a training scar that is almost impossible to remove. The system is designed to be fired like a revolver. Pull the trigger all the way in and all the way out for a very nice smooth 6 pound pull for every round fired.

The other reset point in the middle of the trigger stroke is to help in preventing short stroking under stress. It is about 9 pounds and ugly. The system was never intended to have a long smooth six pound pull followed by a shorter 9 pound pull. It is a safety net for people who tend to short stroke their trigger pull when they get excited.

If you're teaching somebody to use the shorter reset point you are doing them a great disservice because you are making the weapon more difficult to use. For some reason, I have also seen light primer strikes when fired from the short stroke position on hard primer ammo.

Why DAK/DAO/LEM or Glock's Safe Action over DA/SA? If you try to perform two identical actions in rapid succession, the speed of the actions get faster with each attempt because the neural pathways are already activated or "warmed up". In effect, you will begin to perform each action faster than the previous attempt (within reason). When using a DA/SA system your first shot is long and heavy followed by short and light. Two similar but different actions and the neural pathway you just warmed up needs to change gears and slow itself down to prepare for the short and light trigger pull to follow, actually causing a delay in the process which is funny because the whole point of the shorter lighter pull in our minds to shoot faster and more accurately.

With quality training, the Sig DAK is capable of outstanding performance and exceptional accuracy at distance. But you have to want to do it. I was a die hard Glock shooter for years because I could gunsmith the hell out of them at the kitchen table and then get some solid performance out of it. Of course I also turned a $500 pistol into a $900 pistol in the process.

I overwhelmingly prefer the stock DAK Sig to the stock Glock.