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View Full Version : FBI Fundamentals of Double Action Revolver Shooting 9-18-47



NEPAKevin
05-30-2014, 02:08 PM
http://youtu.be/_BUOz6K8q_U

idahojess
05-30-2014, 10:30 PM
Cool video.

RevolverRob
05-31-2014, 12:08 AM
Does anyone know who the G-Man demonstrating is? The sharp nose, dark hair, and average height has me thinking, Jelly Bryce? But by 1947 Bryce was an SAC. I doubt they would have grabbed an SAC to film a promotional training movie.

Anyways, very interesting video either way.

-Rob

Dagga Boy
05-31-2014, 09:38 AM
Time is correct for Henry"Hank" Sloan. I know he did a bunch of FBI training videos (was at Quantico from the 40's until 1971 when he retired) and consulted on movies about the FBI. Most pictures I have seen of Sloan have him standing, shooting one handed and extended from eye level with a 3.5" N frame .357 Magnum. I have a feeling he ran that gun "like a boss". Keep in mind in that era, many of these guys didn't play golf, didn't have TV, and the top "gun" guys of the era shot a lot, and all the time. Some were also very gifted with certain physical characteristics and mindset that made them exceptional shooters. Some of these guys were hired due to their skill as "gunfighters"........good luck with that today.

jlw
05-31-2014, 10:00 AM
Here's a picture of Jelly Bryce:

http://www.gutterfighting.org/Pictures2/bryce.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc23/depicts_2007/pic030.jpg

Dagga Boy
05-31-2014, 10:33 AM
Supposedly.......Jelly could "see" his rounds going down range. I believe it. Some people are just "gifted" at some things. Jelly was gifted.

We have the bottom picture on our Facebook page. I just read "on the internet" that it was not Jelly in the picture with Bill Jordon. True or not, Jelly was a flat out bad ass.

Recently at PMacs TAPs class, I was screwing around waiting for a couple other groups to finish their drills. At this point we were using full size steel silhouettes. I have been shooting bulls for so long that I forgot how fast and how little is needed to hit those things. I was shooting from retention at 15 yards. Took a couple rounds to get indexed and I could get hits. With a lot of practice, you can get a good body index for shooting. I just wouldn't want to use in in a dynamic fight outside of contact. On the other hand, when I started was a cop, a lot of emphasis was placed on bullseye shooting at 25 yards. Many of the older guys were REALLY good at slow fire work, and were good one handed on these as well. I think it just took some time to mush the two disciplines together.

feudist
05-31-2014, 11:12 AM
Look at the pic of Bryce.
His middle finger is oddly forward.
Some kind of grip adapter?
Or just an angle "Artifact"

Malamute
05-31-2014, 11:26 AM
Supposedly.......Jelly could "see" his rounds going down range. I believe it. Some people are just "gifted" at some things. Jelly was gifted.



Handgun bullets are fairly visible with the sun behind you, and other conditions being good. Higher velocity probably makes it harder, but 45 auto's, 38's and 22's show with good light. Jelly may well have had even better than average ability to see them. Exceptional eyesight seems to come up in discussing some outstanding shooters.

Dagga Boy
05-31-2014, 11:32 AM
Look at the pic of Bryce.
His middle finger is oddly forward.
Some kind of grip adapter?
Or just an angle "Artifact"

I have seen pictures of Bryce shooting with both a conventional grip and the kind of weird one pictured. I am sure there is a reason.........just don't know what it is.

Also, as far as his vision. Those who have done any kind of serious work with body indexed point shooting, and are good at it...., will have the gun directly under their strong side eye. It is actually in their peripheral vision and is using a bit of visual verification of the guns location. With freakish eyesight, and the pistol directly under his eye is probably a combination that really helped Jelly with his incredible shooting feats.

45dotACP
05-31-2014, 12:28 PM
Perhaps it's an urban legend, but I heard something to the effect that if you threw an old LP record in the air, Jelly Bryce was able to read the label as it was spinning?

Malamute
05-31-2014, 12:38 PM
I would guess that he could read the label of a record tossed in the air.

I'd heard that some very good exhibition type shooters could see the markings on a coin tossed in the air. Some were able to shoot through the hole of a washer tossed in the air, and could demonstrate that by taping over the hole and only shooting through the hole. Jordan was supposed to be able to do some freakish things with a pistol also, like shooting 5 aspirin tablets tossed in the air before they hit the ground.

LSP972
05-31-2014, 02:34 PM
Jordan was supposed to be able to do some freakish things with a pistol also, like shooting 5 aspirin tablets tossed in the air before they hit the ground.

He was blindingly-literally- fast. You wouldn't think a man that big and LONG, with hands the size of a small roast, could move so quickly. I was privileged to meet and chat with him a couple of times, and see him work. The word amazing doesn't begin to cover it…

.

Malamute
05-31-2014, 02:46 PM
He was blindingly-literally- fast. You wouldn't think a man that big and LONG, with hands the size of a small roast, could move so quickly. I was privileged to meet and chat with him a couple of times, and see him work. The word amazing doesn't begin to cover it…

.

I recall Jordan giving testimony on a case in Wy. It was his opinion that the man in question was in fact fast enough to draw and shoot someone that had a pistol pointed at him at bad breath distance. I believe he stated that there were maybe a dozen men in the world fast enough to do it, and the man in question was one of them. I understand Jordan demonstrated that many times in courts and in exhibitions.

LSP972
05-31-2014, 05:20 PM
I understand Jordan demonstrated that many times in courts and in exhibitions.

He darn sure demonstrated it once in front of me and a bunch of other cops. He used primed brass in both guns (his and the one he handed to the "victim"); not enough bang to hurt anything, but there was no doubt who shot first. Scary stuff…

.

Al T.
05-31-2014, 10:48 PM
Summer of 1975, I spent a couple of hours watching Bob Munden doing some exhibition shooting with a Colt SAA, mainly wax bullets from the hip. I was the nosy kid up close who was aching to figure out the magician's trick. Came to the conclusion it wasn't a trick, he was just wired differently that the rest of us. :eek:

Malamute
05-31-2014, 10:52 PM
Summer of 1975, I spent a couple of hours watching Bob Munden doing some exhibition shooting with a Colt SAA, mainly wax bullets from the hip. I was the nosy kid up close who was aching to figure out the magician's trick. Came to the conclusion it wasn't a trick, he was just wired differently that the rest of us. :eek:


And he likely shot a bazillion rounds doing that sort of thing.

Wheeler
05-31-2014, 11:02 PM
Anyone notice how much finger they demonstrated on the trigger?

jlw
05-31-2014, 11:03 PM
Anyone notice how much finger they demonstrated on the trigger?

Yup. I filed that part away with the lack of using the sights. ;)

Dagga Boy
05-31-2014, 11:07 PM
And he likely shot a bazillion rounds doing that sort of thing.

I've spent a good amount of time with Gil "Cisco" Guerra over the years. Cisco is simply amazing. I watched him hit 6 individual playing cards from the holster in under a second with a single action revolver. I have also seen what the practice routine of a World Fast Draw Champion looks like, and it is at an incredible level. His father was also a World Fast Draw champion, so this has been generations of skill and practice. It also helps that his wife is also a world class shooter on the women's side, so it makes all that practice a family affair.

I always get a kick out of people thinking that true "point shooting" is easier than using the sights. The true experts at that particular skill have a far deeper practice routine.

Malamute
05-31-2014, 11:23 PM
I've spent a good amount of time with Gil "Cisco" Guerra over the years. Cisco is simply amazing. I watched him hit 6 individual playing cards from the holster in under a second with a single action revolver. I have also seen what the practice routine of a World Fast Draw Champion looks like, and it is at an incredible level. His father was also a World Fast Draw champion, so this has been generations of skill and practice. It also helps that his wife is also a world class shooter on the women's side, so it makes all that practice a family affair.

I always get a kick out of people thinking that true "point shooting" is easier than using the sights. The true experts at that particular skill have a far deeper practice routine.


I quite agree. I used to practice some of that years ago, and was somewhat proficient at the time, but its a very perishable skill. I've also noticed that even when having done it a fair bit, and being a believer in the fact that it can be done, I tend to use my sights when actually trying to hit something more than just fooling around and plinking, even when in a hurry. A slightly modified sight picture, but definitely using the sights.

I truly admire the skill, but its not easy to do well.