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Slavex
07-01-2011, 05:04 AM
So I just read SouthNarcs essay on unknown contacts. Excellent read and very well presented, one thing really struck me though, the grooming cue. I have never had any training on body language, but working in bars for many years I thought I had a good handle on reading it. Man how did I miss this particular piece of info? Looking back at any of the fights or near fights that I can remember, almost every time the shithead did this. SN gives a simple explanation for it, but I'm wondering if anyone (SN included) has more to offer on this cue?

NickA
07-01-2011, 05:51 AM
Is the essay online somewhere? Or can you elaborate a bit for those of us who haven't read it or taken the class?

Slavex
07-01-2011, 06:10 AM
There is a link in this thread www.pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1217-Poor-situational-awareness-2-bad-guys-and-quot-Where-s-my-gun-quot

Its a couple posts down.

irishshooter
07-01-2011, 08:26 AM
So I just read SouthNarcs essay on unknown contacts. Excellent read and very well presented, one thing really struck me though, the grooming cue. I have never had any training on body language, but working in bars for many years I thought I had a good handle on reading it. Man how did I miss this particular piece of info? Looking back at any of the fights or near fights that I can remember, almost every time the shithead did this. SN gives a simple explanation for it, but I'm wondering if anyone (SN included) has more to offer on this cue?

yes. in the book What Every Body is Saying by ex-FBI agent Joe Navarro. a great body language book that is concise and easy to follow. he talks about "grooming" but i believe he calls it a "pacifying" behavior IIRC. i did recommend it to SNarc after watching his PUC video and would love to hear his take on it as well.

great book though and you'll find yourself, while and after reading it, constantly deciphering body language....its kinda fun, but has a lot of application for potential threat situations and avoiding them before they become a problem. check it out, Amazon has the digital version and paperback for about $10 or so.

Dropkick
07-01-2011, 09:30 AM
Here's a quick YouTube video on cues:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aa7r7Da8Nw

The video doesn't include the grooming cue, but the "facial wipe" is close. People can scratch the back of their head, run their fingers through their hair, or scratch, pull, rub their facial hair (beard, mustache, eyebrows.)

Mitchell, Esq.
07-01-2011, 09:36 AM
That's a great video link.

NickA
07-01-2011, 09:39 AM
Thanks, got it and an interesting read.

There is a link in this thread www.pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1217-Poor-situational-awareness-2-bad-guys-and-quot-Where-s-my-gun-quot

Its a couple posts down.

turbolag23
07-01-2011, 09:40 AM
interesting stuff, ill have to read up more on this subject.

StayintheFight
07-01-2011, 01:37 PM
If you can take the ECQC class, I highly recommend it. The information, drills, and practice you get on MUC's and close quarter combat are priceless. I will also say that at least in my class, we had some really good role players and improvisational acting. It's a major part of SA that most people miss or don't pay attention to.

SN is also one cool dude to hang out with!

Shellback
07-01-2011, 05:18 PM
I worked at a few different bars and nightclubs when I was younger and definitely do pay more attention to people's body language than most people I know. I think it's a good environment for studying people and signs of aggression or tension and how they interact with others. I'm definitely starting to learn more from reading here and I've also ordered SNarc's video that was discussed in the other thread. Here's a couple more videos that highlight on precursors.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62vzwRYrop4&feature=related

Tony Blauer, SPEAR system, has some good tips as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeJQDlzC1Wg&feature=related

Lots of precursors in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlP9-8f5YpE&feature=related

Some people think it's silly that I like to sit facing the entrance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFq3Lg9R0A&feature=related

This guy straight gets down! On point, ready to go and obviously trains throwing those hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJQtF3iGzTA&feature=related


Sorry for excessive videos.

JHC
07-01-2011, 09:06 PM
No apologies necessary those were very good on a couple levels. Thx

will_1400
08-22-2011, 04:26 PM
Very good stuff here. And I agree with not sitting with your back exposed if you can avoid it. My friends think I'm paranoid, but having been on the wrong end of a couple beatdowns in school tends to color one's thinking.

markp
08-22-2011, 08:25 PM
http://youtu.be/6aa7r7Da8Nw

Dropkick
08-23-2011, 08:24 AM
Thanks for embedding that MarkP. I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but that was before the forum supported Youtube links.

will_1400
08-23-2011, 11:19 AM
Not sure if this is really a cue or not, but for some reason when someone goes from agitated and tense to relaxed in a heartbeat, it sets off alarm bells in my head.

TommyG
08-25-2011, 08:13 AM
Not sure if this is really a cue or not, but for some reason when someone goes from agitated and tense to relaxed in a heartbeat, it sets off alarm bells in my head.

I think it is, in context. There has been a decision made there. It may that the person has decided that the circumstantes are not as serious as they originally appeared or "I have no choice I am going to attack now." The mind racing, trying to figure the angles part just ended and they are on to the next step. I know I relax a little when I have come to a decision in a stressful situation, even if it is resignation that I have to go forward with a lousy choice. The anticipation part is what makes me very tense.

will_1400
08-25-2011, 09:58 PM
I think it is, in context. There has been a decision made there. It may that the person has decided that the circumstantes are not as serious as they originally appeared or "I have no choice I am going to attack now." The mind racing, trying to figure the angles part just ended and they are on to the next step. I know I relax a little when I have come to a decision in a stressful situation, even if it is resignation that I have to go forward with a lousy choice. The anticipation part is what makes me very tense.

I have a tendancy to relax as much as I can in a bad situation so I can move more quickly when I need to, courtesy several years of martial arts training, so that's probably why I get worried if someone does the same. Maybe Southnarc can chime in or something.

JRas
08-28-2011, 05:13 AM
Lots of precursors in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlP9-8f5YpE&feature=related



irritates me, must be hard to knockout an older gentleman with a sucker punch...

off topic but an interesting story I had happen to me.

I was a young kid believe 8th-9th grade. A friend of mine wanted to go rent a movie and get some drinks at the gas station. We didn't have a car and I wanted to ride bicycles but he wanted to walk. We walked down to the movie rental store and gas station ( maybe a mile away ). On the way back, we were walking underneath a freeway underpass. A vehicle had just got off the freeway with two black males, who gave us a stare down. I thought nothing of it, because to be honest it's kind of normal. They made a right and continued up the street as we were walking up.

We continued are walk up the street, I saw two black male men walking down the sidewalk. I did not think it was the two same males but they're body language felt all wrong. The instant I knew it was about to go bad is when they did a look around, and both went to split around us.

They stopped us, I didn't even have a wallet on me just a movie rental, drink, and a few snacks from the gas station. The fat guy on my left pulled a gun on us and the other asked us to empty are pockets. They took all that I had and my friends stuff and ran up the street, got into their car and took off.

moral of the story trust your instincts, for years I've thought about how the same situation would go down now. If anything like so ever happens again, I hope to be placed in a better situation than I was that night.

irishshooter
08-28-2011, 08:53 AM
I did not think it was the two same males but they're body language felt all wrong.

This. i feel like i've killed similar posts with this info, but i know most of us are "information whores" when it comes to self defense and firearms. Check out Gavin DeBeckers, The Gift of Fear. It speaks to these very situations and how we often attempt to ignore our gut feeling and what has happened to others that have done just that. **ignore his anti gun banter and its a real good read**

1slow
08-31-2011, 07:58 PM
S'narc's class is a game changer, some fight well, some shoot well. The integration is a stone bitch particularly with the need for awareness thrown in.
I've been told several times " we die in the gaps" between skill sets.

NickA
09-01-2011, 09:09 AM
I've been told several times " we die in the gaps" between skill sets.
Interesting point... Farnam uses that term to describe failure to press the fight (at least at the basic level). I'd never thought to apply it to your overall skills.


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

l8apex
09-08-2011, 02:44 PM
Good discussion. One thing sometimes overlooked is a persons awareness level. One could be a very accomplished shooter, but if your awareness level is moot or low, it is dangerously easy to be behind the 8 ball in a violent engagement.

Sometimes you will not have a warning, but more than often perps will give off cues/body language that indicate high threats or striking posture.

Being able to recognize the body language and behavior sooner rather than later helps put you ahead of the curve when seconds count.