My ideal KISS rifle build

[MSparks909]

This is the rifle that I should have built from the beginning, and the chosen parts reflect the knowledge learned from personal experiences over the past couple of years with what works best for me in an AR. I decided to build a KISS rifle for training classes, regular drills, a go-to truck/home defense/SHTF rifle. I wanted to build something simple, lightweight, and that doesn't reflect the latest "flavor of the week" in the AR world. This rifle will be ran hard, be put away dirty, will get dinged up in classes, in the woods and on the ATV, and will get fed an exclusive diet of steel-case ammo to keep training costs down.

~The foundation for this build is a blemished Aero Precision lower. I honestly can't find any blemishes, and since this gun will be spray painted anyways, the cosmetic blem status doesn't effect me. I also could not pass up the price.

~After much debate I decided to go with a BCM non BFH 1:7 16" M4 Socom profile barrel with carbine gas and a fixed sight post/BCM upper combo. BCM was running a sale on these recently (also a cosmetic blem) and I jumped on it. I had been debating about carbine vs. midlength, free-float rail vs. fixed handguard, and in the end I decided to keep things ultra simple and run a fixed foreend/front sight post/carbine gas setup. I am planning to have the barrel cut down to 14.5" and have an extended A2 flash hider pinned/welded to make the 16" minimum. Cutting down the barrel to optimize the dwell time for the carbine gas system. Also chose to keep things simple and stay away from a muzzle brake to keep costs down and to reflect the KISS nature of this build; everything I need and nothing I don't.

~I had been debating about whether or not to run a LMT E-Carrier on this build to change the recoil impulse and improve reliability, but in the end I opted to go with a complete BCM BCG. One reason was that to go the LMT E-Carrier route + BCM bolt, cam pin, firing pin and firing pin retaining pin would have been roughly $50 more than the complete BCM BCG, and after I thought about it, since this gun will only see .223 steel case, I didn't figure the extra gas hole/longer cam pin track of the LMT carrier was required. Also wanted to test the reliability of the BCM parts. My DD has been flawless through 4K rounds (not earth-shattering, I know) and I expect the BCM will be the same.

~Going with a BCM Gunfighter Mod 4. Running one of these on my DD 16" V5 and love it.

~Chose to run a fixed DD rear sight. Gun will be naked of optics for the time being until I can save up for an Aimpoint T1/DD lower 1/3 fixed sight base combo.

~Going to run a B5 Bravo stock. Very pleased with the Bravo stock on my DD. Also going to run the B5 Keymod Carbine handguard. Much thinner than the mil-spec handguards and is lighter.

~Miscellaneous: Geissele ACT trigger. Low cost, better pull than mil-spec. Didn't figure that a Geissele G2S/SSA was needed on this build. BCM Gunfighter Mod 0 grip, Sprinco Blue/H2 buffer combo, Sionics Lower Parts kit.

Upper receiver arrived this past week. Going to have the barrel cut down next week. BCM BCG/charging handle/fixed DD rear sight and B5 keymod handguard are supposed to arrive early next week. I plan to assemble the upper and run ~500 or so rounds of Tula/Wolf through it on my DD lower to function check the reliability with the Sprinco Blue/H2 buffer setup in my DD lower. If all goes well, I will collect parts for the lower and assemble to complete the build. Optic will come later on.

Will post pics as the rifle gets assembled.

[TGS]

I think we use different definitions of "simple." I don't see how a carbine gas system is more simple than a midlength, while the middy is objectively a better system. Buying a 16" barrel and cutting it down to 14.5" (when 14.5" bbls are commercially available) doesn't seem more simple than just keeping it at 16", either....not to mention it's going to cost you extra coin over keeping it at 16" or having just bought a 14.5" to begin with. I also don't understand how a flash hider is more "simple" than a compensator.

FWIW, I probably wouldn't worry about the carbine system being overgassed with a 16" barrel, as you said you'll most likely be shooting steel case. Most of that stuff is pretty weak, so you should be a-ok.

[MSparks909]

I think we use different definitions of "simple." I don't see how a carbine gas system is more simple than a midlength, while the middy is objectively a better system. Buying a 16" barrel and cutting it down to 14.5" (when 14.5" bbls are commercially available) doesn't seem more simple than just keeping it at 16", either....not to mention it's going to cost you extra coin over keeping it at 16" or having just bought a 14.5" to begin with. I also don't understand how a flash hider is more "simple" than a compensator.

FWIW, I probably wouldn't worry about the carbine system being overgassed with a 16" barrel, as you said you'll most likely be shooting steel case. Most of that stuff is pretty weak, so you should be a-ok.

I already have a 16" middy. I didn't want to build another one. I have a compensator, SSA trigger, different stock/grip and a 1-6x scope on that gun. Planning on adding a 13" KMR to my middy in the future as well. I've always liked the M4 Block 1 & 2 style ARs. I'm getting the barrel cut and having the flash hider pinned for free so cost isn't an issue. I wanted to go as short as I could without going the NFA route. This build will be similar to a Block 1 style M4. So for me this is the ideal KISS/bare bones rifle.

[Haraise]

Yeah, I don't see how anything here is particularly 'simple.'

Keymods aren't simple. Plastic handguards would be.

Geissele isn't simple. That's a fancy aftermarket part.

The gunfighter is another modification from the norm. Changing out parts for aftermarket ones is about the opposite of what I've seen in most KISS builds. Not that I agree with the concept of a KISS rifle, it seems more of a FUDD thing to me, but this doesn't seem to agree with them either.

[Sigfan26]

I like it! I did a Colt 6720 for similar use. What was total build cost, if you don't mind me asking?

[MSparks909]

Yeah, I don't see how anything here is particularly 'simple.'

Keymods aren't simple. Plastic handguards would be.

Geissele isn't simple. That's a fancy aftermarket part.

The gunfighter is another modification from the norm. Changing out parts for aftermarket ones is about the opposite of what I've seen in most KISS builds. Not that I agree with the concept of a KISS rifle, it seems more of a FUDD thing to me, but this doesn't seem to agree with them either.

How is this a FUDD rifle? This isn't my primary AR. This is a secondary AR I'm building for fun. I didn't want to build a free-float railed, DBAL equipped, Surefire pimped out AR, because my 16" DD essentially fills that role. I am using plastic handguard, albeit ones with keymod slots. They are more ergonomic to me than standard handguards. It's a $60 Geissele worked over mil-spec trigger; not a $210 SSA or S3G. I don't want to gamble with the (usually) crappy trigger components found in lower parts kits. The Gunfighter CH is an upgrade over stock and I can work it better with gloves or when the rifle is wet, etc. It's not some major parts change. To me this build is pretty simple.

[Haraise]

How is this a FUDD rifle? This isn't my primary AR. This is a secondary AR I'm building for fun. I didn't want to build a free-float railed, DBAL equipped, Surefire pimped out AR, because my 16" DD essentially fills that role. I am using plastic handguard, albeit ones with keymod slots. They are more ergonomic to me than standard handguards. It's a $60 Geissele worked over mil-spec trigger; not a $210 SSA or S3G. I don't want to gamble with the (usually) crappy trigger components found in lower parts kits. The Gunfighter CH is an upgrade over stock and I can work it better with gloves or when the rifle is wet, etc. It's not some major parts change. To me this build is pretty simple.

Didn't say it was a FUDD rifle. As a matter of fact, I was exactly saying it wasn't a FUDD rifle. It has some nice and well meaning upgrades that don't follow the KISS rifle concept is exactly what I was getting at. KISS tends to mean 'only things that are 20 years old.'

You don't need to defend upgrades, they're awesome. You might have only gotten some/the cheap parts, but it's better than nothing.

[MSparks909]

I like it! I did a Colt 6720 for similar use. What was total build cost, if you don't mind me asking?

Total parts is around $975. Add another $650 for a T1 in a DD mount.

[Sigfan26]

Total parts is around $975. Add another $650 for a T1 in a DD mount.

Fantastic! Well done sir. You built a rifle, how YOU wanted it (meaning the stuff you considered common sense), for less than $1000.

[Sigfan26]

Maybe "simple" isn't right. What about, "simply user friendly".

[breakingtime91]

People put to much stock into KISS.

All you need on a rifle is a sling,white light, and sights. I am not opposed to someone running irons but I would prefer they run a red dot or variable.

After you fit those three, put on whatever makes your rifle easier for you to run.

[Dagga Boy]

People put to much stock into KISS.

All you need on a rifle is a sling,white light, and sights. I am not opposed to someone running irons but I would prefer they run a red dot or variable.

After you fit those three, put on whatever makes your rifle easier for you to run.

Pretty much this. Unfortunately, many put on stuff that doesn't make them easier to run. The biggest issue I see is shortcuts on the sling, white light and sights to but a bunch of stuff that isn't as important as the big three.

I wrote an article on the KISS carbine for Combat Tactics a long time ago. I recently disassembled that gun and the A1 upper is being replaced with a flat-top, the A1 barrel is having the front sight shaved to fit inside a Centurion CMR fore-end, and will go back together with a T1 Micro as its primary sight and a Surefire Fury as its primary light. The 2 point carry strap will be replaced with a BFG Vickers sling. It should end up very light and easy to run with minimal equipment, but very reliable essential equipment.

[MSparks909]

I think each person has a different definition for what "KISS" is to them. To me, a KISS rifle doesn't necessarily have to be a stripped down, iron sight only, GI-type sling setup. It can still feature "upgrades" and be relatively simple. This build will have a BFG VCAS sling, an Inforce WML, and a T1 (when funds allow). I was mainly trying to avoid the "gear queer" approach when building this rifle and being tempted to add the latest and greatest in rail systems, muzzle brakes/compensators, etc. I could have gone with a 10 or 13" KMR railed 14.5" BCM upper, and I know I would have been happy with that. But I wanted to create my ideal version of an M4gery style carbine. So that's what I'm doing.

[Haraise]

I think each person has a different definition for what "KISS" is to them. To me, a KISS rifle doesn't necessarily have to be a stripped down, iron sight only, GI-type sling setup. It can still feature "upgrades" and be relatively simple. This build will have a BFG VCAS sling, an Inforce WML, and a T1 (when funds allow). I was mainly trying to avoid the "gear queer" approach when building this rifle and being tempted to add the latest and greatest in rail systems, muzzle brakes/compensators, etc. I could have gone with a 10 or 13" KMR railed 14.5" BCM upper, and I know I would have been happy with that. But I wanted to create my ideal version of an M4gery style carbine. So that's what I'm doing.

If that's what you like, by all means. However, when the basis of the term is 'simple,' that's the standard of the rifle. WMLs aren't simple. They're fairly complex. T1 is absolutely not simple. Fixed sights are simpler than pop ups. Fixed stock is simpler than adjustable. Non adjustable grips (ie MAID), etc.

If you named your build 'didn't get the best because I wanted it cheap and to look like the military' as that makes you happy, rock on. :)

[MSparks909]

If that's what you like, by all means. However, when the basis of the term is 'simple,' that's the standard of the rifle. WMLs aren't simple. They're fairly complex. T1 is absolutely not simple. Fixed sights are simpler than pop ups. Fixed stock is simpler than adjustable. Non adjustable grips (ie MAID), etc.

If you named your build 'didn't get the best because I wanted it cheap and to look like the military' as that makes you happy, rock on. :)

I wish I could go back and edit my title to what you suggested. Would have made things much simpler!

Although I will say that I'm not skimping on any major components of the rifle. Cheap, yeah but I was conscious not to dip into RRA/DPMS quality on the parts for the build.

[breakingtime91]

If that's what you like, by all means. However, when the basis of the term is 'simple,' that's the standard of the rifle. WMLs aren't simple. They're fairly complex. T1 is absolutely not simple. Fixed sights are simpler than pop ups. Fixed stock is simpler than adjustable. Non adjustable grips (ie MAID), etc.

If you named your build 'didn't get the best because I wanted it cheap and to look like the military' as that makes you happy, rock on. :)

I don't get your post. How is a wml or T1 complicated? The t1 you just mount, turn on, and leave it. A wml is the same thing but you just push the button when needed? This "simple" thing is just getting lost on me.

[Haraise]

I don't get your post. How is a wml or T1 complicated? The t1 you just mount, turn on, and leave it. A wml is the same thing but you just push the button when needed? This "simple" thing is just getting lost on me.

We're talking about different things. You mean simple to operate. I mean a simple device.

KISS rifle pictures/threads: http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=304444&page=11

It's a stupid concept, and a stupid idea. Like a 'crossover' SUV. Or Jeggings. But it's pretty well defined what KISS is, at ARFCOM.

[Cookie Monster]

Not to derail this but my KISS rifle is a Marlin 336 Levergun in 30-30 win. I wrapped the loop in some leather and added a Vickers sling. It has come in handy.

Cookie Monster

[JAD]

Or Jeggings.

I'll go ahead and tip my hat to that.

For me a KISS rifle build would be to walk into my local gun shop, grab a 6720 off the rack for $900, and if one didn't come in the box grab a $5 nylon carry strap.

[Dagga Boy]

We're talking about different things. You mean simple to operate. I mean a simple device.

KISS rifle pictures/threads: http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=304444&page=11

It's a stupid concept, and a stupid idea. Like a 'crossover' SUV. Or Jeggings. But it's pretty well defined what KISS is, at ARFCOM.

I used my iron sight, fixed stock, carry strap rifle mainly as a "training gun" when I was teaching. The issue was that was how the folks guns I was teaching were set up. It had a white light and the sights were CSAT's. Here is the problem with your definition of "simple". Running a white light with a long gun that is not equipped with one mounted to it is in no way "simple". In fact the "problem" gets to be more complicated. Fact is, many encounters are in low light, and every encounter in the U.S. from the "good guys" side requires positive ID before shooting..........thus, it is critical to have a white light. Now, the set up and operation can be made simple, and I am all for that, but the simplest way to go is to have the light on the gun. Red dot sights...particularly the Aimpoint's or Trijicons. These are a MUCH simpler sighting system than traditional irons. Slings...........it needs one. I can do a lot with a carry strap because I spent a lot of years with that. My ideal is a short 2 point.

[Haraise]

I used my iron sight, fixed stock, carry strap rifle mainly as a "training gun" when I was teaching. The issue was that was how the folks guns I was teaching were set up. It had a white light and the sights were CSAT's. Here is the problem with your definition of "simple". Running a white light with a long gun that is not equipped with one mounted to it is in no way "simple". In fact the "problem" gets to be more complicated. Fact is, many encounters are in low light, and every encounter in the U.S. from the "good guys" side requires positive ID before shooting..........thus, it is critical to have a white light. Now, the set up and operation can be made simple, and I am all for that, but the simplest way to go is to have the light on the gun. Red dot sights...particularly the Aimpoint's or Trijicons. These are a MUCH simpler sighting system than traditional irons. Slings...........it needs one. I can do a lot with a carry strap because I spent a lot of years with that. My ideal is a short 2 point.

It's not my definition. I even called the idea stupid. In the area you quoted.

You quoted an 87 page thread of pictures and debate as to what KISS is, spanning 8 years. That's where the definition came from. The definition is based on popular usage. If I had the power to change what words mean, I would likely call 'KISS' rifles 'grandpa fudd that's young enough to have an AR' rifles. Or retro.

Keep It Practical Stupid would be preferable as well, if I could change meanings. Light/sling/optic is a good basis, but it's a complex subject where four letter slogans are thrown around so people can feel better ignoring improvements and that mission should drive the gear.

TLDR: You're arguing against the wrong person. I do not disagree with you.

[BWT]

My 12.5" BCM is kiss to me.

MOE handguards, Aimpoint ML3 in a Bobro 180 mount, BCM gunfighter grip, LMT ambi selector, Troy fixed BUIS, and KAC ambi mag release.

My only regret is maybe I should've gone to a 2 MOA T1 instead of the ML3. However side by side a T1 with a PRO, I wasn't impressed by the T1 and thought the weight wasn't substantially different.

It needs a better stock, sling and light. But I'm happy.

[Dagga Boy]

Sorry Haraise, it is against my doctors orders to read Arfcom, as my blood pressure cannot handle it. I didn't get you were working off their definitions. I fail at the Internet again...;-)

[Haraise]

Sorry Haraise, it is against my doctors orders to read Arfcom, as my blood pressure cannot handle it. I didn't get you were working off their definitions. I fail at the Internet again...;-)

Totally understandable. I've retreated to only reading here and LF myself. :)

[JDM]

Totally understandable. I've retreated to only reading here and LF myself. :)

Winning.

[Charlie Foxtrot]

KISS?

S&W M&P-15 Sport for $600. ;^)'

Happy Independence Day!