Question re: Glock 34/35

[BJJ]

I recently read something where Larry Vickers stated that a G34/35 was a no go for a defensive pistol due to the hole in the slide. He seemed to be concerned that something could get in through the hole and cause the gun to malfunction. I know a lot of G35's have been carried on duty by police officers. I also know that Tom Givens, who I hold in very high regard, carries a 35.

I have always thought it was weird to have a hole in the slide. Can somebody explain why it's not a concern as far as debris getting in and causing the gun to malfunction? Couldn't something as simple as dropping the gun on a gravel parking lot potentially cause a malfunction that would otherwise not happen if the slide was a solid piece?

[Cookie Monster]

I carry a 34 about 20% of the time and has run it through classes. No issues but I am interested in others experience.

CM

[JodyH]

I've watched 34's run like Swiss watches in horrible rain, mud, snow, dust conditions at 3-gun matches.
I wouldn't worry about using one as a CCW or duty pistol at all.

[HopetonBrown]

Bob Vogel carried a 35 as his duty gun. LAV's background and his experiences downrange and OCONUS are probably pretty different than what your average LE /civ would be.

[MSparks909]

I've tested my 34 in an impromptu dirt/sand test. Buried it action open, dug it up, inserted a magazine and it went *bang* 17 times. Fired another 33 rounds with it filled with sand. Trigger got quite gritty and hard to pull, but it never malfunctioned. I may try with gravel in the slide cutout and see if there is any malfunctions.

[John Hearne]

I know a lot of good hands that carry 34 and 35's for duty guns or CCW guns and they don't report any problems with the cut. I do find it "interesting" that when Glock made a long slide 45, they opted to thin the slide to drop weight and not have an large opening in the slide.

[JonInWA]

I had a brief email discussion with LAV several years ago regarding the viability of the G34; at least at that time he indicated no experienced or observed issues with the G34, but questioned why I'd choose a G34 over a G17.

Any concern over the slide top cut-out can be easily assuaged with a piece of speedy 100 mph tape or masking tape. Similar could be applied to the slide butt opening wad some up first, and then apply a sealing piece)-or use a butt plug.

I can see where those experiencing high velocity sand/dirt/dust might want to have those apertures somewhat closed off (along with a more protective flap holster utilized), but for the vast majority of us, I suspect it's a total non-issue.

Best, Jon

[Chuck Haggard]

Then carry method also makes a big difference.

Fast roping into a sand pit while wearing something like a 6280 is quite a bit different than Tom carrying a G35 IWB. For there to be any issue at all Tom would have to get into a gunfight while in a sand storm or while fighting his way out of a mud pit.

[BJJ]

Thanks for the replies.

I did occur to me that Vickers has a unique perspective based on his unique background. I also wondered if a G34/35 might actually be more reliable than the 1911s possibly carried by Vickers and/or his colleagues back in the day.

[JonInWA]

I would personally take a G34 (or G17, G19, G21, G22/35 albeit a Gen4 G22/35} over any 1911 into a combat/adverse environmental situation. It's reliability, durability, low maintenance, weather/environmental imperviousness, exceptionally easy parts replacement/interchangebility, low weight, magazine capacity/magazine durability makes it a no-brainer for me.

I suspect that some others/other organizations may have come to some similar conclusions...

Best, Jon

[BJJ]

I had a brief email discussion with LAV several years ago regarding the viability of the G34; at least at that time he indicated no experienced or observed issues with the G34, but questioned why I'd choose a G34 over a G17.

Any concern over the slide top cut-out can be easily assuaged with a piece of speedy 100 mph tape or masking tape. Similar could be applied to the slide butt opening wad some up first, and then apply a sealing piece)-or use a butt plug.

I can see where those experiencing high velocity sand/dirt/dust might want to have those apertures somewhat closed off (along with a more protective flap holster utilized), but for the vast majority of us, I suspect it's a total non-issue.

Best, Jon

At the risk of sending this thread somewhere it really shouldn't go, what is the "butt plug" you mentioned? Is that an after market part to pop in the hole?

[BJJ]

I found the quote of LAV talking about it:

"The thing that concerns me about the 34 and 35 is the large open slot on top of the slide - if you drop the gun and debris gets in that area it can shut the gun down instantly

For that reason alone I personally don't consider it a duty weapon - I know many use it as such and to each his own but given a choice I would choose a G17 any day

Hope this helps and be safe"

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?139791-Does-the-LAV-have-any-love-for-the-Glock-34

[Duces Tecum]

I found the quote of LAV talking about it: "The thing that concerns me about the 34 and 35 is the large open slot on top of the slide - if you drop the gun and debris gets in that area it can shut the gun down instantly [/url]

Has he expressed an opinion on the Beretta?

[pangloss]

Has he expressed an opinion on the Beretta?

That's the question that sprang to my mind as well.

[JTQ]

Has he expressed an opinion on the Beretta?
I don't know what Mr. Vickers would say about the Beretta, but to me at least, the G34/35 slide openings are very different than the Beretta 92 open slide. There is space to jam a stick, rock, sand, etc, into the open slots of the G34/35 and end up packing it in there, while the Beretta doesn't have the same type of "pocket" in the slide. The entire Beretta slide is open and there is nowhere for anything to get packed in. This is with the slide closed. With the action open is a different issue.

Whether in actuality the Glock's could overcome all that "stuff" packed in those slots better than the Beretta with debris anywhere on the gun, I don't know, but the Glock has more space for that stuff to get packed into it.

[JV_]

This reminds me of the Seinfeld episode of "Fusilli Jerry"


It was a million to one shot, doc, million to one....

[LSP552]

LSP SWAT had 60 G35s in use for a decade. There were no issues in urban or rural operations or training. They have wallowed in mud and ran like sewing machines. I've also carried a G34 for a number of years.

So much is contex. I wouldn't pick one to carry for military use the sandbox, but for LE use, even hard use, I wouldn't bat an eye.

Ken

[JodyH]

I'd go with a G34 packed full of sand before I'd pick a LAV 1911 that had a handful of dust thrown in its direction...
:p

[TCinVA]

This reminds me of the Seinfeld episode of "Fusilli Jerry"

Same here.

I know a number of tac teams have been using the G34/G35 for a long time without issue. JSO would be one of them and they use their Glocks a fair bit in a pretty wide array of circumstances. If I had to carry a Glock as a police officer I'd pack my Gen4 G34 in a heartbeat.

[JonInWA]

At the risk of sending this thread somewhere it really shouldn't go, what is the "butt plug" you mentioned? Is that an after market part to pop in the hole?

And this from a person who's antecedants can be questioned by his screen name initials...Seriously, there's quite the cottage industry devoted to plugs to close up the open aperture at the heel of Glocks. The open aperture was originally designed to drain accumulated snow/ice/condensate/water from the receiver (Austria apparently has mountains in addition to apfelstrudel and torten); it also probably simplified the mold design/manufacturing/molding process.

Some think that such a plug speeds reloading (precluding the magazine from catching on the aperture shelf or edge), others think it seals out foreign debris. Most probably don't care one way or another, unless a specific need comes up. I do have one in my Glock parts kit "just in case." "Just in case" hasen't occurred yet...

Best, Jon

[2alpha-down0]

FWIW Hackathorn considers the slide cut a drawback to the 34/35 for defensive/duty use as well, and for the same reason.

I'm with the group here in that I think it largely depends on context. I'd personally carry either without a second thought.

[JonInWA]

Has he expressed an opinion on the Beretta?

He actually had an in-depth article on the M9 in Shotgun News a couple of years ago; the gist of which was: Good gun (actually a very good gun), constrained by poor to abysmal operator and echelon maintenance-notably in the lack of proper operator lubrication and programmed recoil spring replacements.

Best, Jon

[JBP55]

Local PD carries G34/G35 next City over carries all G34. This Parish SRT and many others in Louisiana carry the G35. I have never heard of any of these pistols locking up.
Rather than speculate someone should give actual details of a G34/G35 stopping due to debris in the slide.

[John Hearne]

I've heard comments like that attributed to Ken but he had no such objections when question in the class I took with him in the fall of 2013.

[MD7305]

When I took a class with Mr. Hackathorn I shot my G35 after my G23's rear sight went AWOL. I specifically remember Mr. Hackathorn mentioning a scenario involving an undercover or plainclothes officer that somehow got pocket change (either a nickel or dime) in the slide cut out. This reportedly caused issues. Now, I can see it being an issue if you pocket carried it with the threat of change hitchhiking in the cut out but I would think the gun being holstered would make something like this highly unlikely? I always wanted to try to duplicate that issue by putting a penny or something in the cut out but I figured that was a bad idea.

[TCinVA]

I've heard comments like that attributed to Ken but he had no such objections when question in the class I took with him in the fall of 2013.

There are some folks running around out there who have a habit of attributing opinions to Mr. Hackathorn that don't reflect what the man has actually said.

[LSP552]

Same here.

If I had to carry a Glock as a police officer I'd pack my Gen4 G34 in a heartbeat.

If I had to start a fight with a pistol, it would be with my old 2 pin G34. The G34 is a Jedi Light Saber.

Ken

[2alpha-down0]

I've heard comments like that attributed to Ken but he had no such objections when question in the class I took with him in the fall of 2013.

It came up in our class last month. I seem to recall the pocket change anecdote, maybe MSparks will drop back in and confirm.

[JonInWA]

Assuming the "G34 pocket change jam" story isn't just an urban myth, 1) What kind of a responsible individual carries any Glock loose in a pocket along with their change; and 2) let alone a G34 with it's longer barrel/slide length?

While I'm not in a position to say it didn't happen, I'm extremely skeptical on several counts. Even assuming that it's true, it doesn't seem like the type of situation that the vast majority of us participating on this forum would ever place themselves in...

Best, Jon

[orionz06]

Pocket change can get into a J-frame too...

[DocGKR]

Really??? As noted above, there are lots of LE officers who use G34/G35's on duty without issue, including Robert Vogel. Likewise, there is a USG organization that has used G34/G35 pistols in combat post 9/11 without problems...

Just like the G19 is the perfect size for off-duty/plainclothes/CCW use, the G34/G35 is great for duty use with a magwell and SF X300 light in place--in fact I generally prefer the G34/G35 over the G17 for such use.

[VolGrad]

When I took a class with Mr. Hackathorn I shot my G35 after my G23's rear sight went AWOL. I specifically remember Mr. Hackathorn mentioning a scenario involving an undercover or plainclothes officer that somehow got pocket change (either a nickel or dime) in the slide cut out. This reportedly caused issues. Now, I can see it being an issue if you pocket carried it with the threat of change hitchhiking in the cut out but I would think the gun being holstered would make something like this highly unlikely? I always wanted to try to duplicate that issue by putting a penny or something in the cut out but I figured that was a bad idea.

I've heard Hack tell this story as well. I think the guy stuck his duty weapon in his pocket loose while off duty doing something around the house and didn't notice it until later. That's how I recall the story but it's been a fee years.


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[matt7184]

It came up in our class last month. I seem to recall the pocket change anecdote, maybe MSparks will drop back in and confirm.

Hackathorn has told the same story in a class I was in as well in 2012.

[secondstoryguy]

I run a 34 as a duty gun, many of my fellow officers run 34s/35s, and I have seen many other long-slides in the hands of fed/state teams doing far more high-risk stuff than I do. We also have a large multi-agency(fed/state/local/mil) facility near us and many of the instructor cadre(who also travel all around the US training folks) carry G34s/35s. I doubt they would if it was a huge issue. I'm with Doc on the long slides being a nice size for a duty gun. With a magwell and light they balance well, the added sight radius seems to point a little better as well as affording some protection to the light from muzzle blast/carbon buildup.

[VolGrad]

I personally feel the whole concern about the hole in the slide is a case of "what if" in the extreme but then what does my opinion mean anyway ....


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[orionz06]

I personally feel the whole concern about the hole in the slide is a case of "what if" in the extreme but then what does my opinion mean anyway ....


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Yeah...

I keep my phone on silent because what if I am engaging a bad guy in a dynamic critical stress incident and someone texts me giving away my location.

[LOKNLOD]

I really need to get around to patenting my idea for a lightweight snap-in slide-plug for the G34. Clearly there is more market than I realized. If I can combine it with an RMR mount, I'll be a rich man. :cool:

I admit I wondered about the ability for something to get in there and foul the gun up myself, long ago before I had one. I think I even asked about it on some forum (on the old pre-M4C G&R Tac forum, I think). When you look at it, it's an obvious question. The root of the question is more about whether it's a likely event for your usage than if it's possible. As a civilian CCWer I'd say it's a remote possibility that is mitigated by using a decent holster and actually checking your gun every now and then.

[DocGKR]

How often has OrigamiAK experienced a problem with the G34 he CCW's every day?

[JAD]

I have no ken of Mr. Vickers. Mr. Hackathorn gave one of the best two day classes I've attended, but he says some stuff that's not exactly in need of a stone tablet. In my class for example, he cited as one of the primary reasons for carrying a BUG that one could dual wield and cover both avenues of a corner when clearing. He demonstrated and it did in fact look cool as hell.

[Wendell]

...one could dual wield and cover both avenues of a corner when clearing. He demonstrated and it did in fact look cool as hell.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g2en7CTUk8

[hardtail]

I carried a G35 for 3 years on duty. I think that the most realistic issue with carrying that gun lies in the fact that you are rocking a 3.5 or 4.5 lb. trigger. The lighter trigger is what originally drew me to that gun, and is also what eventually drew me away from it as a duty weapon.

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[JAD]

If you post anything but CYF in response to 'dual wield' I don't think we can be friends.

[JBP55]

I carried a G35 for 3 years on duty. I think that the most realistic issue with carrying that gun lies in the fact that you are rocking a 3.5 or 4.5 lb. trigger. The lighter trigger is what originally drew me to that gun, and is also what eventually drew me away from it as a duty weapon.

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I have never seen an OEM G34/G35 with a 3.5# trigger pull. Unless ordered otherwise the Blue Label Glocks do not come with a - connector and the trigger pull is in the 5# 8oz. plus range.

[hardtail]

This is true. The blue label guns don't come with the lighter pulls. I should have mentioned that my first G35 wasn't purchased blue label (rookie mistake not using the blue label deal). I also owned a 5.5 lb. G35 that just didn't do it for me. It is still my favorite glock, but it takes a lot away from the G34/35's shootability. Most have the lighter pulls.

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[ST911]

G34/35 is available from GI on the commercial side with the (-) connector, extended mag release, and extended slide stop.

A clarification please... Are Vicker's and Hackathorn's thoughts on the G34/35 cautionary notes, or should-nots?

[JonInWA]

Blue Label Glocks come however they're ordered, either by the LEO concerned, or by the distributer (presumably, but I'd imagine not necessarily, with input/orders from their clients or potential clients). That means that Gen 3 G34/G35 could come with either the "standard" or "minus" connectors, and with any of the OEM Glock sight options. I have never seen a G34/G35 without the Glock extended slide stop/release, but I assume that if an order was significantly large enough, Glock could substitute the OEM flat piece (or just send a bunch of 'em to the unit armors, who could then perform the substitutions).

I haven't looked in detail at any Gen4 G34/G35s to date; I assume that they similarly can come equipped with either the "dot" or "minus" connectors.

Best, Jon

[DocGKR]

All the gen 3 G34/G35's I've seen in LE use came with the "-" connector and standard trigger return spring, yielding trigger pulls in the mid-5 lbs range.

[JV_]

My gen4 34 guns came with . Connectors

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[DocGKR]

Yup...."dot" on gen 4's.

[MD7305]

A clarification please... Are Vicker's and Hackathorn's thoughts on the G34/35 cautionary notes, or should-nots?

In class, when Hackathorn told me the story concerning the G34/35 with a coin in the slide opening I took it as cautionary, food-for-thought kind of thing. Others may have interpreted his comments differently but that was my impression. He didn't really go on to mention or elaborate much else about the Practical/Tacticals that I can recall.

If given the choice, I'd swap my duty G22 for a G35 without a second thought.

[JBP55]

Blue Label Glocks come however they're ordered, either by the LEO concerned, or by the distributer (presumably, but I'd imagine not necessarily, with input/orders from their clients or potential clients). That means that Gen 3 G34/G35 could come with either the "standard" or "minus" connectors, and with any of the OEM Glock sight options. I have never seen a G34/G35 without the Glock extended slide stop/release, but I assume that if an order was significantly large enough, Glock could substitute the OEM flat piece (or just send a bunch of 'em to the unit armors, who could then perform the substitutions).

I haven't looked in detail at any Gen4 G34/G35s to date; I assume that they similarly can come equipped with either the "dot" or "minus" connectors.

Best, Jon

Correct.

[JBP55]

All the gen 3 G34/G35's I've seen in LE use came with the "-" connector and standard trigger return spring, yielding trigger pulls in the mid-5 lbs range.


All day long when ordered that way otherwise they will be shipped from from Glock with the same connector as all other Glocks of the same generation.
I know some Agencies that request the - connector from Glock on Agency letterhead with the serial # of each pistol and receive - connectors which they install.

[JSGlock34]

G34/35 is available from GI on the commercial side with the (-) connector, extended mag release, and extended slide stop.

A clarification please... Are Vicker's and Hackathorn's thoughts on the G34/35 cautionary notes, or should-nots?

Here's Vicker's post on the subject. (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?125727-Tac-TV-Glocks&p=1567711#post1567711)

"The 34 is fine for competition but the slide opening in my opinion makes it unsuitable for duty use - it acts as an opening for dirt and debris to enter the gun and shut it down."

I wonder if this is a recent development, as I ran a G34 in a Vickers course a few years ago and he didn't comment on it (and I'm sure I wasn't the only G34/35 on the line). Vickers was vocal about his gear preferences throughout the class, and predicted dire problems from my KAC SR15E3 (in fact, both my KAC SR15E3 and another on the line finished the class with zero issues, something that couldn't be said about some other student rifles, but I digress).

[dookie1481]

Yup...."dot" on gen 4's.

I've seen both red and blue label Gen 4 24s with minus connectors.

[JonInWA]

I'm pretty certain that the "minus" is the default connector for any of the longslides, but that distributers/organizations have the capability to order them with the "standard/dot" connector. Most of the LEO longslides that I've observed also come with either the standatd polymer fixed sights, or Glock (Meprolight) nightsights (or Trijicons, when they were an OEM option from Glock). Presumably LEO/distributers can also specify if they want the NY1 spring, but I believe nowdays it's far more the norm for them to come with the coil trigger spring, with unit armorers swapping for the NY1 if desired/mandated.

It'll be pretty rare to find a Red Label (Commercial) longslide with anything but the "minus" connector and polymer Glock adjustable rear sight, unless it was a special order or a somewhat eccentric distributer.

Best, Jon

[YVK]

So, if one sent a 34 to a place like ZEV and had them giant ass side slide cuts done, would those side cuts serve as drainage outlets for any coinage and artifacts that made its way in through a top cut?

[orionz06]

So, if one sent a 34 to a place like ZEV and had them giant ass side slide cuts done, would those side cuts serve as drainage outlets for any coinage and artifacts that made its way in through a top cut?

That's actually why they are there. The gamers like to take credit for making them gamey but it's really a tactical coin release.

[JV_]

a tactical coin release.I thought we weren't allowed to call it a release, it's a catch.

[dookie1481]

I'm pretty certain that the "minus" is the default connector for any of the longslides, but that distributers/organizations have the capability to order them with the "standard/dot" connector. Most of the LEO longslides that I've observed also come with either the standatd polymer fixed sights, or Glock (Meprolight) nightsights (or Trijicons, when they were an OEM option from Glock). Presumably LEO/distributers can also specify if they want the NY1 spring, but I believe nowdays it's far more the norm for them to come with the coil trigger spring, with unit armorers swapping for the NY1 if desired/mandated.

It'll be pretty rare to find a Red Label (Commercial) longslide with anything but the "minus" connector and polymer Glock adjustable rear sight, unless it was a special order or a somewhat eccentric distributer.

Best, Jon

I haven't seen many red label 34s with adjustable rears until lately, when it seems that all of them have come that way.

[TheTrevor]

My recently acquired commercial-distribution G41 came with a minus connector (label claims 4.5lb) and a polymer adjustable rear sight. My FFL noted that all of the G34/G35/G41 guns he's seen recently came with that setup.

[JBP55]

My recently acquired commercial-distribution G41 came with a minus connector (label claims 4.5lb) and a polymer adjustable rear sight. My FFL noted that all of the G34/G35/G41 guns he's seen recently came with that setup.


He must not be a Blue Label Dealer.

[JonInWA]

Or that that's the prevelant build mode for LEOs for that particular Glock.

Best, Jon

[Randy Harris]

I've carried a G34 off and on for about 8 years (and 24/7 for the first 6 years) with no ill effects from debris getting in the hole in the top of the slide. In fact I have shot it with mud actually inside the slide.

I did one of Southnarc's ECQC classes in Atlanta in January of 2006. It had been rainy all the week before the class. The Georgia red mud clay that was the berm for the live fire ended up all over us as clumps of it would go airborn and rain down on us every time we engaged our targets. Several times I ended up with a clump of mud directly in the hole in the slide. I'd just wipe off what was on the outside, reholster and on the next drill.... pulling the trigger the next time would blow the rest of it out. (There were no barrel obstructions just to be clear, just mud in the hole in the top of the slide.

Since then I have carried it pretty much daily for several years, taken multiple high round count classes with it , shot multiple IDPA and GSSF matches with it and have never had any issues of any kind with it.

[BJJ]

Randy, thanks for sharing your experience.

[Randy Harris]

You're welcome for sure. One other thing to keep in mind...just how much stuff gets in your slide INSIDE your holster ? If you are using it as an EDC gun then it will spend the overwhelming majority of its time protected by the holster and unless you end up in a long running gunfight in a rural area there just isn't that much opportunity for stuff to even get in the slide....It just is not an issue in civilian concealed carry context.