Famine in North Korea

[Kyle Reese]

Traditionally the Stalinist regime in NK has allocated foodstuffs to the military and the ruling elite before the "workers" got any, but now that's changed (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/27/3253979.htm).

If North Korea collapses, it will be one of the greatest humanitarian catastrophes the world has ever seen.

[TCinVA]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Mao and his cadres starved tens of millions to death with his ridiculous policies. Il seems determined to do the same.

[Matt O]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Mao and his cadres starved tens of millions to death with his ridiculous policies. Il seems determined to do the same.

Mao was definitely power hungry and ignorant in regards to running a country financially and economically. The difference is China was able to alter it's collision course with economic reality within 29 years whereas NK has not. This illustrates important differences in their political decision making structures despite the fact that they are both labeled as "communist."

[Shellback]

I find North Korea fascinating in a bunch of different ways. I also enjoy watching documentaries and stream quite a few on Netflix. Here's a few interesting ones that are listed on Netflix streaming that I would recommend if you're interested in learning more about North Korea and seeing some good video of the area. Very surreal tours of NK including 8 lane highways with no cars traveling them, fake towns built along the DMZ to entice people to defect to the north. It's very 1984, George Orwell big brother is watching you kind of environment and is very interesting to me. Kim Jong Il is worshipped in such an odd and fascinating god like way portrayed in these films by the citizens of NK.

Crossing the Line - Who in the hell would defect to North Korea? Several ex-Americans are interviewed in NK and there's lots of footage of the country in this film, very interesting. Christian Slater narrates director Daniel Gordon's intriguing political documentary about a U.S. Army defector who abandoned his country to become a citizen of North Korea. More than 40 years after crossing the border during the Cold War, former Pfc. James Dresnok speaks with Gordon in the city of Pyongyang. This 2007 Sundance Film Festival competition entry is an intimate look inside the mind of a democracy defender turned loyal communist.

National Geographic: Inside North Korea - Another good film that shows quite a bit of the odd god worship of Kim Jong Il the omnipotent while touring areas of NK. Disguised as a medical coordinator, National Geographic correspondent Lisa Ling gains access into North Korea and gives viewers a powerful glimpse inside one of the most restrictive countries in the world. Through personal accounts and exclusive footage, Ling exposes the difficulties North Koreans face while living in such an oppressive regime, coping with poverty, hunger and the lack of civil liberties.

Kimjongilia - I haven't watched this one yet but it looks pretty intriguing. Marked by a long history of repression and information control, North Korea continues to scrupulously monitor the activities of its citizens. This exposé reveals daily life under a totalitarian regime as well as the stories of prison camp survivors. Filmmaker N.C. Heikin draws on her artistic sensibility as a dancer and performer to craft a stylish documentary that bears a surprising message of hope and inspiration.

[ToddG]

Well, their women's soccer team is on ESPN right now and they don't look like they're starving.

The situation right now in PRK highlights the true danger of a socialist system. How did the government become so powerful compared to its far more numerous citizens? I mean, our forefathers fought, bled, and died in battle to free us from tyrannical government. Why don't the North Koreans? Because for decades, the government has been their provider.

George Washington didn't expect the British Crown to provide his food and clothes.

Thomas Jefferson didn't expect the federal government to give me money if his plantation failed.

If a natural disaster struck Revolution-era Boston, none of the residents would be asking the government to pay for rebuilt homes, relocation expenses, etc. No one would say it's the government's fault that people didn't have enough food and water.

That's the real danger of unemployment benefits, universal healthcare, etc. When people in need turn to the government rather than themselves, their families, and their neighbors when times are tough, the government becomes employer, doctor, and mommy.

[Ray Keith]

http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-guide-to-travel/vice-guide-to-north-korea-1-of-3

There is an interesting 3 part video at this site on N. Korea.

[Kyle Reese]

After the Japanese were defeated in 1945, the Soviets installed a Stalinist government north of the 38th Parallel. As a result, the NK people have zero concept of what liberty is, as they have no basis for comparison. Government propaganda tells them that they live in a paradise, and the benevolent and all knowing Kim Jong Il sees to all of their needs.

School children are taught that Kim Jong Il was the first man to walk on the moon, invent the automobile and other absurd and ludicrous fallacies. There are, of course, no opposing viewpoints permitted, and internet and external media is prohibited (although I think MSNBC is allowed).

The bigger question is what happens when the NK regime finally collapses, and you have millions of brainwashed and malnourished people to deal with?


This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C76HqPaA6kw) is a documentary regarding the slavish devotion some Western leftists show North Korea.

[TCinVA]

Mao was definitely power hungry and ignorant in regards to running a country financially and economically. The difference is China was able to alter it's collision course with economic reality within 29 years


Owing in no small measure to Mao finally dying, the hunger pangs in the belly of even higher party officials, and the practicality of Deng Xiaoping. He put an end to the cult of Mao where the Il's have nurtured their own cult.

[Wheeler]

I wonder if South Korea has given any thought or preparation to the possible flood of refugees should North Korea collapse. That could very well be two countries going down the drain.

[Shellback]

Well, their women's soccer team is on ESPN right now and they don't look like they're starving.

USA WINS!!! :cool:

[Kyle Reese]

I wonder if South Korea has given any thought or preparation to the possible flood of refugees should North Korea collapse. That could very well be two countries going down the drain.

Short of total war, it's their ultimate nightmare scenario.

It will make Germany's reunification look like teatime with Mr.Rogers.

[Wheeler]

Short of total war, it's their ultimate nightmare scenario.

It will make Germany's reunification look like teatime with Mr.Rogers.

And given the treaties and mutual aid agreements that are probably in place, the US will be heavily involved.

[Kyle Reese]

And given the treaties and mutual aid agreements that are probably in place, the US will be heavily involved.

Agreed. What would become of the Dear Leader and his murderous Communist junta? Asylum in Cuba / Venezuela? Tried for crimes against humanity?

Our involvement would be massive, but it could be a boom for our construction, food and infrastructure industries.

[ToddG]

Our involvement would be massive, but it could be a boom for our construction, food and infrastructure industries.

Paid for by whom?

Far more likely it will mean a huge influx of Communist/Socialist-bred (literally) aliens into our country put on the public dole by our own Dear Leader.

[Shellback]

And given the treaties and mutual aid agreements that are probably in place, the US will be heavily involved.

Another war we would have no business being in. We can't afford the 4 or 5 we have going on currently.

[Matt O]

Far more likely it will mean a huge influx of Communist/Socialist-bred (literally) aliens into our country put on the public dole by our own Dear Leader.

Ironically this is one of the reasons China still supports North Korea. The Chinese gov has problems enough and certainly don't want the underfed skill-less masses living next door to spill over the border because their country collapsed (and the dear leader certainly knows this).

China of course also likes maintaining the status quo because NK is a tool to be used against the US, South Korea or Japan.

[Matt O]

Owing in no small measure to Mao finally dying, the hunger pangs in the belly of even higher party officials, and the practicality of Deng Xiaoping. He put an end to the cult of Mao where the Il's have nurtured their own cult.

For the most part, yeah. By empowering and creating the cult of Mao, they created a monster that had to disappear before real reform and progress could be made. of course noone was powerful enough so they had to wait it out.

Deng was one crafty SOB. Imprisoned twice before Mao died, he came out and quite quickly wrested power from Mao's chosen successor Hua Guofeng. And thus the China we know today was born...

[WDW]

I say this as a joke, but would not be the least bit surprised if they resorted to some mass, government dictated form of cannibalism http://www.messentools.com/images/emoticones/humor/www.MessenTools.com-emoticones-humor-126.gif (http://www.messentools.com/en/msn-emoticon-details-and-download/id/2393/)

[Shellback]

North Korea has shut down its universities for the next 10 months and sent students to work in factories, agriculture and the construction sector as it struggles to rebuild its economy. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/8602525/North-Korea-shuts-down-universities-for-10-months.html)

[SecondsCount]

Well, their women's soccer team is on ESPN right now and they don't look like they're starving.

The situation right now in PRK highlights the true danger of a socialist system. How did the government become so powerful compared to its far more numerous citizens? I mean, our forefathers fought, bled, and died in battle to free us from tyrannical government. Why don't the North Koreans? Because for decades, the government has been their provider.

George Washington didn't expect the British Crown to provide his food and clothes.

Thomas Jefferson didn't expect the federal government to give me money if his plantation failed.

If a natural disaster struck Revolution-era Boston, none of the residents would be asking the government to pay for rebuilt homes, relocation expenses, etc. No one would say it's the government's fault that people didn't have enough food and water.

That's the real danger of unemployment benefits, universal healthcare, etc. When people in need turn to the government rather than themselves, their families, and their neighbors when times are tough, the government becomes employer, doctor, and mommy.
You speak the truth. When people lose the ability or knowledge to fend for themselves, especially after several generations, it is very difficult to turn back the clock. We see similar situations in the US with generations of welfare recipients.

In one way I feel the need to help based on responsibility for fellow man but just throwing food and cash at the problem will not fix it. The people of North Korea need to stand up for themselves or the problems will only continue.

[Shellback]

The reason NK lost the soccer match yesterday was due to their team being struck by lightning! (http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/blog/dirty-tackle/post/North-Korea-blames-loss-to-U-S-on-players-getti?urn=sow-wp2852) WTF?!?! Do people really believe this bullshit? Do they even believe their own bullshit? I think they probably believe anything that is told to them by their "leaders".

[Kyle Reese]

The reason NK lost the soccer match yesterday was due to their team being struck by lightning! (http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/blog/dirty-tackle/post/North-Korea-blames-loss-to-U-S-on-players-getti?urn=sow-wp2852) WTF?!?! Do people really believe this bullshit? Do they even believe their own bullshit? I think they probably believe anything that is told to them by their "leaders".

They probably do.

How many Americans believe everything they see/hear on the nightly news?

[peterb]

When people lose the ability or knowledge to fend for themselves, especially after several generations, it is very difficult to turn back the clock. We see similar situations in the US with generations of welfare recipients.

And large corporations.

"My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of subsidy...."

[Slavex]

The Vice Guide to North Korea is a phenomenal video to watch. Some of the things they show are just bizarre.
The mass starvation that is occurring in NK is also occurring in many other countries and its going to get worse. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but wheat production is dropping fast worldwide. We are looking at one the worst seasons for grain in Canada this year, and Russia is apparently stopping its exports of wheat due to wheat rust and droughts. The more people start looking at producing their own food, where possible, the better.

[Korenwolf]

At least the Great Leader has extraordinary shooting skills:

Skip to 1:44


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxvsx4lMffk

[SecondsCount]

Seoul allows flour aid to North Korea (http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2011/07/27/Seoul-allows-flour-aid-to-North-Korea/UPI-38451311761220/)