PDA

View Full Version : PA State Police and SIG P227R



gtmtnbiker98
05-10-2014, 06:51 PM
Looks like the P227 is gaining in popularity: http://www.emarketplace.state.pa.us/Solicitations.aspx?SID=6100029421

Lon
05-10-2014, 08:52 PM
We bought one to evaluate. Let as many people shoot it as wanted to. Those who chose to shoot it overwhelmingly preferred the 226/229 option.

Too bad the new 226s we got have QC issues. 4 outta 30 have been kittened up and needed to be sent back to Sig.

KeeFus
05-10-2014, 09:54 PM
One of my Captains flagged me down Friday, asking about the P227. He had received an email from a Sig rep trying to outfit us with them since another local agency just ordered them. Sig is pushing them hard it seems. In comparison to the M&P 45's we have had for about 3 years now they don't seem to offer any advantages, to me anyway. They have the same exact capacity and weigh a few ounces more.

I'm sure they are a fine weapon but I don't see any advantages to this pistol over our current issued pistol.

gtmtnbiker98
05-11-2014, 07:36 AM
Although I own one, I wouldn't recommend it to my agency based solely on ammo costs. Besides, our new sidearms are less than a year old, so it will be a long while before we are buying.

Chuck Haggard
05-11-2014, 07:52 AM
PA has been changing guns as much or more than Indiana. They started out with 9mms, went to .40, then to .45GAP because "stopping power", now I hear they are in .45acp unless my memory is failing me, again.

imp1295
05-11-2014, 07:59 AM
I need to find out who is going to sell their G21 trade-ins...

LSP972
05-11-2014, 08:15 AM
PA has been changing guns as much or more than Indiana.

And speaking of Indiana… how are THEIR P227s working out?

.

SJC3081
05-11-2014, 09:46 AM
I need to find out who is going to sell their G21 trade-ins...
Nobody,45 GAP

imp1295
05-11-2014, 10:33 AM
Dammit!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Stephen
05-11-2014, 05:23 PM
As a PA resident and taxpayer I would like to say kitten the PSP. They just like to waste our money. Whoever is in charge of this is either taking bribes or an ignorant sucker for a flashy sales pitch. Also, the PSP maintains an illegal registry of handguns in PA. Seriously, kitten the PSP.

Chuck Haggard
05-12-2014, 04:35 AM
Most people don't really take a systems approach to this sort of thing. When one does, the wisdom of going the plastic pistol route is immediately apparent. So is going with 9mms for mass issue.

San Bernardino has (had?, hope they still do) one of the best duty pistol program ideas I have seen. Issue either a Glock 17 or 21, officer's choice, allow personally purchased handguns from a list of approved handguns in those two calibers.

The availability of duty gear, quality retention holsters, armorer training, parts support, Sim guns, etc. should all go into such a decision. So should total program costs, including ammo, wear and tear on the guns, etc.

Just the fact that many handguns that might be suitable for LE use have no Simunitions training gun available would be enough for me, if I ran a department, to overrule issuing that pistol. I think FoF is that important.

Wayne Dobbs
05-12-2014, 07:23 AM
You're making too much sense, Chuck.

orionz06
05-12-2014, 07:36 AM
PA has been changing guns as much or more than Indiana. They started out with 9mms, went to .40, then to .45GAP because "stopping power", now I hear they are in .45acp unless my memory is failing me, again.

Rumors have it that PSP is struggling with their new Glocks, if you see a trooper they don't all appear to be carrying Glocks at this time. Glocks have been all they've been issued for a while now.

jlw
05-12-2014, 07:46 AM
Most people don't really take a systems approach to this sort of thing. When one does the wisdom of going the plastic pistol route is immediately apparent. So is going with 9mms for mass issue.

San Bernardino has (had?, hope they still do) one of the best duty pistol program ideas I have seen. Issue either a Glock 17 or 21, officer's choice, allow personally purchased handguns from a list of approved handguns in those two calibers.

The availability of duty gear, quality retention holsters, armorer training, parts support, Sim guns, etc. should all go into such a decision. So should total program costs, including ammo, wear and tear on the guns, etc.

Just the fact that many handguns that might be suitable for LE use have no Simunitions training gun available would be enough for me, if I ran a department, to overrule issuing that pistol. I think FoF is that important.

That's very similar to what we do. We have issued weapons, but we allow personally owned carry as well with approval. One of requirements for approval is the availability of an armorer either in house or via agreement with another agency to provide such a service.

We provide duty and training ammo in multiple calibers.

I will say that if I had my druthers, I would simplify things by issuing everyone a 9mm Glock with an approved list for personally owned carry, but we would only provide ammo for the 9mm. It would certainly make my logistics easier.

GJM
05-12-2014, 07:59 AM
In the mountain west, when you mention 9mm to many law enforcement folks, you often get a very pained look and immediate response of "no, mine is a 40."

Chuck Haggard
05-12-2014, 09:01 AM
In the mountain west, when you mention 9mm to many law enforcement folks, you often get a very pained look and immediate response of "no, mine is a 40."

Yeah, around here when I advocate for 9mms I have been looked at like I was supporting communism and devil worship.

Lots of people don't know what they don't know.

jlw
05-12-2014, 09:42 AM
In the mountain west, when you mention 9mm to many law enforcement folks, you often get a very pained look and immediate response of "no, mine is a 40."


Yeah, around here when I advocate for 9mms I have been looked at like I was supporting communism and devil worship.

Lots of people don't know what they don't know.

I wouldn't get much resistance to dumping the .40SW, but some of the .45/1911 guys would not be pleased.

psalms144.1
05-13-2014, 10:46 AM
My agency issues the Sig P229R DAK in .40, but authorizes a WIDE range of personal weapons in 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and, yes, .38 Special. The overwhelming majority of agents I know jumped on the G27 as the "best" choice when our policy changed, and a very large number of them are now coming to me asking about the G26 or M&P9c as an alternative (to which I reply enthusiastically with a yes). I would be very happy to see our agency revert to 9mm as standard issue (makes sense, since we're a DOD agency and operate "with forces" world wide, so our deployers are all carrying 9mms anyway), and would like to take the ATF approach - issue a G17 and G26 or M&P9 and M&P9c, but let retain the liberal personal weapons policy we currently enjoy.

Regards,

Kevin

Chuck Haggard
05-13-2014, 10:52 AM
If I had an OCONUS mission and a CONUS LE job in which I would have to maybe carry my blaster with me wherever the job took me, then I'd have a G17, 19 and 26 (if given the choice) well zero'd with M882 ball and would then pick whatever 124gr JHP was on Doc's list that hit to the same POA=POI

psalms144.1
05-13-2014, 11:25 AM
If I had an OCONUS mission and a CONUS LE job in which I would have to maybe carry my blaster with me wherever the job took me, then I'd have a G17, 19 and 26 (if given the choice) well zero'd with M882 ball and would then pick whatever 124gr JHP was on Doc's list that hit to the same POA=POIIt's like we're related or something! That was my PRECISE recommendation back in 2002 when we started this extravaganza that ended up with us turning in our P228s (except a small number maintained "in the box" for issue to arriving agents) to get the 229R DAKs in .40. Which we can't deploy with. And have a different trigger mechanic than the pistol we deploy with. And a different frame, so holsters don't interchange... Need I go on?

Chipster
05-14-2014, 06:34 AM
And speaking of Indiana… how are THEIR P227s working out?

.

They have already had to have SIG come to the individual ISP Posts to change out "some parts" from the guns that have already been issued. From what I hear, I believe it had something to do with the mainspring housing. I cannot confirm that though as everyone I talk to does not know anything about the internal workings of a handgun.

Saying that, everyone I talk to has nothing but positive things to say about the gun.

LSP972
05-14-2014, 10:37 AM
They have already had to have SIG come to the individual ISP Posts to change out "some parts" from the guns that have already been issued. .

Imagine that.

Thanks.

.

KeeFus
05-14-2014, 12:36 PM
They have already had to have SIG come to the individual ISP Posts to change out "some parts" from the guns that have already been issued. From what I hear, I believe it had something to do with the mainspring housing. I cannot confirm that though as everyone I talk to does not know anything about the internal workings of a handgun.

Saying that, everyone I talk to has nothing but positive things to say about the gun.

Reminds me of when Glock had to set up shop in NY to fix NYPD's Glocks when they first got them. :rolleyes:

TommyG
05-14-2014, 03:21 PM
Rumors have it that PSP is struggling with their new Glocks, if you see a trooper they don't all appear to be carrying Glocks at this time. Glocks have been all they've been issued for a while now.

They went from a 40 S&W Beretta to 45 GAP a couple of years ago. This past year they went to 45 ACP and a weapon mounted light. I am also hearing rumblings that they are having a lot of trouble with the G21s but no details yet.

Rich
06-03-2014, 08:26 AM
We bought one to evaluate. Let as many people shoot it as wanted to. Those who chose to shoot it overwhelmingly preferred the 226/229 option.

Too bad the new 226s we got have QC issues. 4 outta 30 have been kittened up and needed to be sent back to Sig.

Are the new P226R coming in with the -1 slide ?

As a sig fan I only have faith in the MK25 and think with better protected internal parts it might be held to a higher QC.

Rich
06-03-2014, 08:31 AM
One of my Captains flagged me down Friday, asking about the P227. He had received an email from a Sig rep trying to outfit us with them since another local agency just ordered them. Sig is pushing them hard it seems. In comparison to the M&P 45's we have had for about 3 years now they don't seem to offer any advantages, to me anyway. They have the same exact capacity and weigh a few ounces more.

I'm sure they are a fine weapon but I don't see any advantages to this pistol over our current issued pistol.

I would think one would have less recoil than the other.
whatever pistol that had less recoil I would pick.

I hear the M&P 45acp is S&W best service pistol.

Lon
06-03-2014, 10:18 PM
Are the new P226R coming in with the -1 slide ?


Yes. 226s have the new extractor. Our new 229s have old style extractor and stepped down slide all the way back.

mark7
06-04-2014, 06:28 AM
Rumors have it that PSP is struggling with their new Glocks, if you see a trooper they don't all appear to be carrying Glocks at this time. Glocks have been all they've been issued for a while now.

Their current 21's are .45 ACP. "Issues" developed with the 21's- I've only heard rumors of either failure to extract or failure to fire. Glock came in and changed trigger bars and other parts, the malfunctions were still being reported. Glock reportedly is now changing out frames within a specified serial number range. At that point, the PSP took the unprecedented step of allowing troopers to carry personal weapons. Most opted for their purchased (read cheap) GAP 45s.

The latest info indicates that PSP is looking at those Sigs, the M&P and Springfield in 45.

orionz06
06-04-2014, 11:27 AM
P227 is it.

Rich
06-07-2014, 06:45 AM
Yes. 226s have the new extractor. Our new 229s have old style extractor and stepped down slide all the way back.

Lon thanks for your reply.

Strange the new P227 have the time proven extractor.. I'm sure once the P227 proves to be a quality service pistol , Sig will switch it to the -1 slide /L extractor !

The cost cant be all that much to keep the same P226/P229 older specs.

I would love to run across a NIB P229R 40S&W with original specs

11B10
09-17-2015, 10:56 AM
mark7 - your information was/is - spot on. It is now September and because I see troopers often, I can tell you that I see nearly all - SIG 227s in their holsters. I am told this is because of an ill-fated trip to Glock/Smyrna, that ended with the PSP realizing they must move on. SIG was right there, picking up the pieces, doing the bionic PR work - and getting results.

Sammy1
09-17-2015, 03:57 PM
My agency issues Glock Gen 4 40 cal and we've had no issues. Everyone around us issues 40 or 45 caliber M&P pistols and I haven't heard of any problems with the M&P. I know of two agency that had problems with their Sig pistols (226 DAK & 220 da/sa) and went to M&P 45.