870 Question.

[TR675]

I got a police trade-in 870P a few months ago; I thought I was being frugal and smart by buying used. Well, maybe that's not the case.

Since buying it, I've had issues ranging from "lock-ups" (where the action "locks" after firing and I have to jiggle the forearm around to get it to release) to true failures to extract (shell looks stuck in the chamber; jiggling the forearm frees it - this might be the same as the "lock-up" problem) to failures to feed (looks like the shells are getting caught on the edge of the chamber). These failures are with low brass Winchester and mystery-metal Estate birdshot rounds, and when I am running the gun fast, are on the order of one FTE per every 1-3 rounds. When going slow and taking my time, the FTE's drop quite a bit.

High brass Federal reduced recoil FliteControl buck rounds run smoother than...something...through a goose; no problems with those.

In addition, it looks to me like Remington failed to complete a machining process, leaving a corner of steel on the chamber rim near the ejector. A pic is below. I didn't see this corner in some pics of Wingmaster chambers I saw online.

2305

The edges of the chamber also seem sharp. Looks like most of the shells that fail to feed get caught on the upper edge of the chamber, although some might be getting caught on the lower left edge, where that corner of steel is.

The chamber itself probably needs polishing; there are circular tool marks in the chamber and another outside of the chamber on the barrel extension. This may have been a Friday gun.

Apparently Winchester birdshot and mystery metal Estate loads are notorious for choking in 870's, especially Express models, but IMO that is ridiculous. A police model especially should be able to run whatever I stuff in there.

As noted, this is a police model and a fairly well-used one at that. I don't know how the officer managed with it.

I'd like to know any experts' thoughts on why this shotgun is not working well, whether I should try to fix it or cut bait, and if I should fix it, the best way to go about that. If you have any thoughts or diagnoses, please chime in before I throw my hands up in frustration and get a 590.

If I had the opportunity I would have loved to attend HiTS's shotgun class this May and, with a sad puppy face, hand this thing over to Darryl and Wayne for them to pore over, but I'm not able to make it. Hopefully I can learn something over the intertubes.

Thanks in advance!

[MD7305]

I had a similar experience with an 870 with a sticky chamber using some of the same loads you mentioned. From what I'm told it's common with cheap low brass ammo. I read a suggestion of polishing the chamber with iron wool. I tried it and in my case it solved the issue. I've run close to 500-550 of the cheapest bird shot I can find and it's been 100%. Mine too was always good with quality buck and slug loads. YMMV, my set up was a new police barrel (rifle sights) on a new express tactical.

[LSP972]

These failures are with low brass Winchester and mystery-metal Estate birdshot rounds...

Are you certain those are BRASS heads?

Many of the current production "economy" shotgun shells are using steel; which is known for causing extraction issues in all sorts of shotguns. I had to help a guy dig one out of a Browning Citori O/U at a sporting clays shoot once; it had gotten hung under the ejector due to rim deformation and took us five minutes (and a knife) to get it out. The FTU at my old agency has also reported problems with these el cheapo shells, in 870s. IOW, it is a documented, known issue.

That said... having to "jiggle" the fore-end to get it to unlock tells me you may have a broken or sticky shell latch. To check for that:

1. close the action, load 2 or three shells into the mag tube. Dummy rounds are usually too light for this "test", unless they are of the old-fashioned variety like Remington sells. The orange plastic ones may- or may not- work here for this specific "test".
2. depress the action bar lock and gently move the fore-end back, stopping BEFORE it gets to the end of its travel. If it is a true police model with short fore-end, you hook your pinky against the rear edge, and stop the fore-end rearward movement when your pinky touches the front edge of the receiver. The idea here is to free up the lifter without engaging the shell latches.
3. push the lifter up as far as it will go. You now should have unrestricted access to the mag tube through the loading port.
4. using your thumb, push in on the LEFT side shell latch; it should release the first shell in the magazine. Let it drop into your hand, then push in the RIGHT side (same as the ejection port) shell latch until it clicks, which will free up the left side latch to be depressed, releasing the shell. Once that first one is out, repeat the right/left sequence until the mag tube is empty. BTW, this is a very safe way to unload an 870 that is carried mag full/empty chamber... the so-called "cruiser ready" or "car carry condition". It sounds much more complicated than it actually is to accomplish.

If all of this goes smoothly, your shell latches are probably fine and something else is the culprit. I would not venture a further diagnosis without examing the shotgun, sorry.

Also, that ding in your photo shouldn't be there IIRC. I don't have one handy to examine (there's one in the reference vault, but I'm not going through the hassle of getting into that sanctum sanctorum), but I don't recall anything like that. I'll look at mine when I get home... if I remember...:rolleyes:

There really isn't much to these shotguns; that is why they are so popular and have stood the test of time. But like anything mechanical, when something breaks or is gummed up, etc., it needs fixing.

I get the impression you're LE? Shouldn't be too hard to locate an 870 mechanic in some agency close by.

.

[TR675]

Thanks for the assist, guys.


Are you certain those are BRASS heads?

I am certain the Estates are steel. The Winchester are, I believe, brass. I've been wrong before, though.


That said... having to "jiggle" the fore-end to get it to unlock tells me you may have a broken or sticky shell latch. To check for that:

1. close the action, load 2 or three shells into the mag tube. Dummy rounds are usually too light for this "test", unless they are of the old-fashioned variety like Remington sells. The orange plastic ones may- or may not- work here for this specific "test".
2. depress the action bar lock and gently move the fore-end back, stopping BEFORE it gets to the end of its travel. If it is a true police model with short fore-end, you hook your pinky against the rear edge, and stop the fore-end rearward movement when your pinky touches the front edge of the receiver. The idea here is to free up the lifter without engaging the shell latches.
3. push the lifter up as far as it will go. You now should have unrestricted access to the mag tube through the loading port.
4. using your thumb, push in on the LEFT side shell latch; it should release the first shell in the magazine. Let it drop into your hand, then push in the RIGHT side (same as the ejection port) shell latch until it clicks, which will free up the left side latch to be depressed, releasing the shell. Once that first one is out, repeat the right/left sequence until the mag tube is empty. BTW, this is a very safe way to unload an 870 that is carried mag full/empty chamber... the so-called "cruiser ready" or "car carry condition". It sounds much more complicated than it actually is to accomplish.

If all of this goes smoothly, your shell latches are probably fine and something else is the culprit. I would not venture a further diagnosis without examing the shotgun, sorry.

Excellent, I will try this tonight.


There really isn't much to these shotguns; that is why they are so popular and have stood the test of time. But like anything mechanical, when something breaks or is gummed up, etc., it needs fixing.

I get the impression you're LE? Shouldn't be too hard to locate an 870 mechanic in some agency close by.

You would not believe how dirty this one was when I got it. The plastic left in the barrel made it look like a 20-gauge, so there could well be something gunked up in there. I ought to just hit it with gunscrubber.

No sir, not LE but there are a couple of good 'smifs nearby, I will probably end up delivering it to them.

[LSP972]

You would not believe how dirty this one was when I got it. .

Trust me... I believe it.

.

[TR675]

Trust me... I believe it.

On second thought I suppose you would ;).

[Chuck Whitlock]

You would not believe how dirty this one was when I got it. The plastic left in the barrel made it look like a 20-gauge, so there could well be something gunked up in there. I ought to just hit it with gunscrubber.

A good tip I got in Sully's shotgun armorer class was to use those tornado brushes in smoothbore barrels. It takes the caked plastic out much better than standard bristles.

[pangloss]

TR675, I just compared the chamber of my 870P to the pic you posted. Mine does not have the jagged spot that yours does.

I also have a Rem 870 Special Purpose Magnum that I bought new in 1990. The last time I shot sporting clays (last month, I think) I had the same problem with cheap loads. I'm sure the ammo I was shooting was steel rather than brass. Some rounds were very difficult to eject (but I still managed a personal record). The only other time I experienced this problem was with some reloads a few years after I bought the gun.

[David Armstrong]

Allow me to recommend http://www.combat-shotgun.com The owner of the forum, J.D., is a former LEO who now makes a living building custom 870s and is a wealth of knowledge on the model. I'd being willing to make a small bet that he could figure out the problem without too much trouble. Tell him I sent you!