Dry-Fire

[Jay Cunningham]

Most people find dry fire incredibly boring – me included. I think it’s a mistake to set a time limit (i.e. dry fire for 20 minutes) because this kind of tedium winds up with you watching the clock.

I recommend giving yourself a set number and break it into small bites. I try to dry fire 200 times each day, broken into bites of 25. I like to start with 25 strong hand supported, 25 weak hand supported, 25 strong hand only, then 25 weak hand only. I usually stand very close to a bare wall (http://pistol-training.com/drills/wall-drill) for these, and allow myself to consciously reset the trigger.

For the next 100 I like to practice dry one-shot draws… if I’m feeling frisky I’ll incorporate weak hand draws. Generally I pick out an aim point for this series instead of the bare wall. Dry fire is great because it don’t cost nuthin’ and you can focus on perfect presentation and trigger press, allowing you to work on increasing your speed with live fire at the range.

Don’t be afraid to use your .38 snubbie (especially CT laser equipped!) for dry fire! The heavier trigger and visual feedback from the laser will translate positively to your service pistol. Not having to reset the trigger with the slide makes it go faster as well! I don’t particularly recommend dry-firing your carbine… you’ll get more benefit out of sticking with your handguns. Believe me, the trigger manipulation *will* translate over.


The above is not "The Law as Told By Jay"; it is simply an expression of some opinions that I've formed through my training and experience with several very good instructors. Please feel free to discuss and disagree!

[MTechnik]

With a DA/SA gun, would you focus your dry fire on the longer double action?

I think that the heavier pull would be a better workout, as it seems harder to keep the gun perfectly still. But by all means also working the single-action to help build those neural pathways.

[Jay Cunningham]

With a DA/SA gun, would you focus your dry fire on the longer double action?

I think that the heavier pull would be a better workout, as it seems harder to keep the gun perfectly still. But by all means also working the single-action to help build those neural pathways.

Yes, I'd focus on the DA. You can mix in a little SA here and there, but you'd probably get better results with that live fire.

[David B.]

Don’t be afraid to use your .38 snubbie (especially CT laser equipped!) for dry fire! The heavier trigger and visual feedback from the laser will translate positively to your service pistol. Not having to reset the trigger with the slide makes it go faster as well!

I have a .38 snubbie with CT grips, and I still find it too boring to dry fire. :)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/Apostolos/sw.jpg

God Bless,
David

[Jay Cunningham]

One additional thought - get yourself focused and triple check your firearm clear. Don't even have ammo in the same room if you can avoid it. Pick a spot that will absorb a round if it had too - I like to use my block garage wall. Something like a Safe Direction Pad (http://www.safedirection.com/) can be a really good layer of extra insurance. If you are interrupted during your dry-fire and then resume, re-focus and perform the triple verification again. When you are finished, ensure your firearm is in fact loaded if that is supposed to be it's condition of readiness.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I try to dry fire at least three times a week. Since my primary platform(s) is the P30 V3 and HK45c V1, I focus most, if not all, of my practice on the DA trigger pull. It's tedious but like Jay said, it's cheap and quite beneficial.

[ToddG]

The only caveat I would add for DA/SA guns: if you're dry firing, don't perform two (or more) quick DA trigger strokes in an attempt to simulate multiple shots. You'll program the wrong thing into your "muscle memory" and exacerbate any double-single transition issues you may already have.

For example, when I df-practice a transition, I rack the slide with the trigger pulled, aim at the first target, then move the gun and reset to the SA position for the transition shot. If you instead transition to a DA shot, you're programming yourself to move your finger farther and with much more force than you need, and you will be more likely to yank the shot.

[orionz06]

A bucket full of sand can be used to clear into as well.

[Jay Cunningham]

The only caveat I would add for DA/SA guns: if you're dry firing, don't perform two (or more) quick DA trigger strokes in an attempt to simulate multiple shots. You'll program the wrong thing into your "muscle memory" and exacerbate any double-single transition issues you may already have.

Good point.

[Thrill]

I think I understand the purpose for dry-firing, so forgive me,... but I was under the impression that "dry" firing was bad for the firearm, especially semi-autos? Is that not the case, or do you guys do something (like use a dummy round in the chamber) so as not to damage the firearm? Thanks!

[JDM]

When practicing dry reloads, who uses dummy rounds in the mag to smooth things out, and keep the feed lips from snagging on the mag well? I used to regularly but lately I have just been using empty mags. Seems like it's a good indicator if I was dead on with the mag going into the gun (smooth insertion) or if I was sloppy ( snagged feed lips). Any recommendations either way?

[ABC]

Not to derail the thread, but BOM I like your signature. My biggest complaint with gun forums is the reception most newcomers receive when they ask a simple question.

On topic - the Wall Drill (Wall Drill) (http://pistol-training.com/drills/wall-drill), using a spent casing, or coin (Balancing Act) (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?42-Handgun-Accuracy-Fundamentals-Trigger-Control) and the Original Poster's drill all seem like good dry fire practice. I know I do the Wall Drill several times a day.

When I have a little more space (about 10 yards) I insert one of those laser bore sighters with adjustable end pieces that fits in any barrel up to .50 caliber. It offers some visual feed back, kind of a poor man's SIRT (http://nextleveltraining.com/product_list), also you'll make damn sure to check the gun when you're purposefully obstructing the barrel.

Does anyone else have a way of dry fire practice they particularly find helpful or enjoyable?

[SLG]

I think I understand the purpose for dry-firing, so forgive me,... but I was under the impression that "dry" firing was bad for the firearm, especially semi-autos? Is that not the case, or do you guys do something (like use a dummy round in the chamber) so as not to damage the firearm? Thanks!


Dry-fire will not hurt the vast majority of modern weapons, including .22's. Some guns have some specific issues to look out for, but by and large, it is not an issue. If you have a Sig, you might want to use a snap cap.

[sff70]

Do not dry fire a .22.

Centerfire pistols you can dry fire w/o fear. Use a snap cap if you care to.

I've been dry-firing rifles, shotguns, and pistols since 1989 and have never broken or damaged anything.



I think I understand the purpose for dry-firing, so forgive me,... but I was under the impression that "dry" firing was bad for the firearm, especially semi-autos? Is that not the case, or do you guys do something (like use a dummy round in the chamber) so as not to damage the firearm? Thanks!

[Thrill]

Thanks for info!
So I can dry-fire S&W 38, Glock 17 & Kel-Tec P11 with no issues,
but not the Tarus 22 revolver,...

[backtrail540]

I use snap caps to practice reloads and I still have problems with my 229 mags getting snagged during insertion.

I find it is more my technique than anything. If the back(primer side) of my mag doesn't make contact flat against my magwell then the groove gets caught on the outside of my magwell and makes for an annoying fumble.

I don't have this problem with my Para, most likely because it doesn't have the same cut in the top of the mags.

I use a target paster on my wall as an aiming point during dry-fire. What do you guys use?

[beltjones]

Not to derail the thread, but BOM I like your signature. My biggest complaint with gun forums is the reception most newcomers receive when they ask a simple question.

On topic - the Wall Drill (Wall Drill) (http://pistol-training.com/drills/wall-drill), using a spent casing, or coin (Balancing Act) (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?42-Handgun-Accuracy-Fundamentals-Trigger-Control) and the Original Poster's drill all seem like good dry fire practice. I know I do the Wall Drill several times a day.

When I have a little more space (about 10 yards) I insert one of those laser bore sighters with adjustable end pieces that fits in any barrel up to .50 caliber. It offers some visual feed back, kind of a poor man's SIRT (http://nextleveltraining.com/product_list), also you'll make damn sure to check the gun when you're purposefully obstructing the barrel.

Does anyone else have a way of dry fire practice they particularly find helpful or enjoyable?

Check out Steve Anderson's book, "Refinement and Repetition (http://www.brianenos.com/pages/reviews.html#steve)." It's competition-focused, but it's a great resource for anyone wanting to use dryfire practice to get faster with their draw, reloads, and transitions.

[sff70]

In addition to "Refinement and Repetition", there is also Steve's book "Principles of Performance", Sam Conway's book "The Shooters Approach to Practice", and Saul Kirsch's books "Thinking Practical Shooting" and "Perfect Practice".

Competition oriented? Yes. Will they help you in other ways? Yes.

Also consider DVDs by Jerry Barnhart, Saul Kirch, and Matt Burkett, especially Matt's Vol 7 "How to Practice" DVD.

[AfterWork_Ninja]

Don't forget those dry-fire on the move drills.

[SLG]

[QUOTE=sff70;1332]Do not dry fire a .22. QUOTE]

That is simply not true.

I don't own a Taurus, so I won't address that one, but any .22 from a reputable company is fine to dryfire. Ask S&W, Ruger, S&W, Ruger. OK, so my idea of a good .22 is limited, but the old advice not to dryfire them is simply incorrect. As it happens, I do not dryfire my .22's since I see no need, but if you want to, they'll be just fine. I know there are other companies that say it is ok to dryfire their .22's as well, but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

[SLG]

Tom,

As you know, I have a pretty good source at S&W, but I will check again, just to be sure. I imagine that the FAQ's were not written by the gunsmith's but who knows.

[jthhapkido]

When I dryfire practice, I have a set of rounds made up with no primer and no powder, and I paint them a garish green color to make them exceedingly obvious. I then fill the mags I'm using up with them, and put a couple of snap-caps at the top of the mag. The mags are then similar in weight to loaded mags.

Dryfire practice with these as opposed to empty mags really is important I think. From draw/presentation to reloading drills, the weight makes for a serious difference in how it feels.

I second the comments regarding Anderson's dryfire practice books. While they are indeed competition oriented, they really work the basics of getting the gun out, on target, and working as quickly as possible. IF you have the discipline to actually practice and be honest with yourself as to whether or not you had a good sight picture and decent trigger control, it can really make a difference to your shooting.

[beltjones]

When I dryfire practice, I have a set of rounds made up with no primer and no powder, and I paint them a garish green color to make them exceedingly obvious. I then fill the mags I'm using up with them, and put a couple of snap-caps at the top of the mag. The mags are then similar in weight to loaded mags.

Dryfire practice with these as opposed to empty mags really is important I think. From draw/presentation to reloading drills, the weight makes for a serious difference in how it feels.

I second the comments regarding Anderson's dryfire practice books. While they are indeed competition oriented, they really work the basics of getting the gun out, on target, and working as quickly as possible. IF you have the discipline to actually practice and be honest with yourself as to whether or not you had a good sight picture and decent trigger control, it can really make a difference to your shooting.

I ended up deciding that the SIRT pistol wasn't for me (great tool, just not for my applications), but I absolutely fell in love with their practice magazines, and I ordered a couple of them for dryfire practice.

What I like about them is that they have a similar form factor to standard Glock magazines, and they have adjustable weights so you can tailor them to your purposes. I adjusted the weight so that my practice magazine feels almost identical to a Glock 34 magazine loaded with ten rounds. It's a great practice tool, it doesn't jack up my magazine opening, and it's "safer" because it's a dummy magazine. I can't recommend them enough - I just wish they would make them in a color other than black so they would be more easily distinguishable as an inert magazine.

[MDS]

Tom,

As you know, I have a pretty good source at S&W, but I will check again, just to be sure. I imagine that the FAQ's were not written by the gunsmith's but who knows.

Thanks in advance, and I'll appreciate hearing about the double-check as well. I have a 617, which I dry-fire with spent 22 casings. That makes it a real pain, since I spend a few minutes triple-checking that only spent 22 casings are in the cylinder before I start pulling the trigger...

That said, I find that my 6" 617 is awesome for the Wall Drill. That 8" sight radius really exaggerates any motion, and giving great feedback. The trigger is generically perfect, near as I can tell. I'll probably spend more and more of my dry-fire time on my SD gun, especially once I get a SIRT, but it seems to me that strict marksmanship can always benefit from a Wall Drill session with the 617 every so often. Is that wrong-headed?

[MDS]

Most people find dry fire incredibly boring – me included. I think it’s a mistake to set a time limit (i.e. dry fire for 20 minutes) because this kind of tedium winds up with you watching the clock.

Maybe it just because I'm a noob, but dry-fire is certainly not boring for me. It's a real challenge to try to keep that sight picture perfectly still during the Wall Drill. The Balanced Case drill is a little like a game, as well, where I'm always trying to beat my previous performance by keeping that case on there for more/faster trigger pulls. And the results at the range are very motivating, as well. I've been shooting with some friends fairly regularly, and I've improved faster than them - something I attribute 100% to the fact that I dry-fire twice a day, and they don't.

Again, maybe it's just that I'm a noob, and still wagging my tail about "getting better." But the benefits are clear. I can treat much of it like a game. In many ways, it feels a lot like a range session, without the bang. What's not to love? In the end, I have to watch the clock, not because I can't wait for the session to end, but so that I don't go too long, get tired, and ingrain bad habits - and so my wife doesn't scold me for spending my precious "at home" time locked up with my gun!

[SLG]

I have not yet been able to reach "my man in the 'smithy", so THE WORD is still out. However, a discussion with another industry friend revealed what may be the disconnect here. Sig will tell you that their guns are perfectly safe to dry fire. They don't consider the guy who is practicing 30 minutes a day. THAT guy will peen his firing pin, if he doesn't use a snap cap.

A gunsmith at S&W may have said that dry firing their .22's was perfectly safe - thinking I meant one trigger pull, every now and then, possibly to relax the firing pin for storage. I don't yet know if that's what he meant, but I hope to find out pretty soon.

[Ga Shooter]

With the price of a set of good snap caps probably being the cheapest thing we ever buy firearms related my question would be why not? I use them in my Glocks just because.

[jar]

With the price of a set of good snap caps probably being the cheapest thing we ever buy firearms related my question would be why not? I use them in my Glocks just because.

Because it's easier to verify a gun as unloaded when the chamber is completely empty.

[MDS]

Because it's easier to verify a gun as unloaded when the chamber is completely empty.

This. I have a fairly elaborate pre-dry fire ritual, and in the presence of anything cartridge-like I still feel a little nervous pulling the trigger. This is why I want the SIRT. Lately, since I've been using a 22lr revolver for most of my dry-fire, that revolver is more or less a dedicated dry-fire pistol (except for when I take it to the range.) This makes me much more comfortable, to separate the fighting guns from the dry-fire guns/tools.

[Ga Shooter]

From a safety standpoint I agree. When I first started doing df I had to come up with a plan to deal with the uncomfortable feeling of pulling the trigger with a "round" in the chamber in my house. The ones I use are red in color and I have a dedicated mag just for df that is painted orange. This along with a strict unloading reloading ritual insures safety. I think the SIRT is probably the best solution (even though I have never used one). But for firearm protection against possible even if improbable damage I think it is a good idea. YMMV.

[Shellback]

One additional thought - get yourself focused and triple check your firearm clear. Don't even have ammo in the same room if you can avoid it..... When you are finished, ensure your firearm is in fact loaded if that is supposed to be it's condition of readiness.

I read somewhere a while ago that verbally announcing that you're in fact loading your gun was a good habit to get into after dry firing. It helps "reset" your brain and gets you out of the "dry fire mode" that may occur after many repetitions. I know it sounds goofy but I've started doing it and it does seem to help disengage that dry fire cycle. If it works for you great, if not, forget I mentioned it.

[MDS]

I read somewhere a while ago that verbally announcing that you're in fact loading your gun was a good habit to get into after dry firing. It helps "reset" your brain and gets you out of the "dry fire mode" that may occur after many repetitions. I know it sounds goofy but I've started doing it and it does seem to help disengage that dry fire cycle. If it works for you great, if not, forget I mentioned it.

It sounds a lot less goofy than an AD! I verbally announce every step of my ritual, slowly and clearly like I'm talking to someone hard of hearing, and use exaggerated motions to do things like check the chamber. I can feel the mental reset happening over the course of 90 seconds or so, and it's totally worth it. My wife thought it was a little goofy at first, but now she's glad that when I come back to the living room or baby room, those dry-fire neural paths have had a chance to cool down.

In fact, lately I've been ending my dry-fire with some "play" time - using awkward positions or play-acting little scenarios or etc. It feels like this satisfies some subconscious childish part of me, and helps me get back to a normal state of mind after focusing so intently on the gun. I figure it can't hurt, either, as practice of some kind. :cool:

ETA: I know some folks like to put the guns away after dry-fire, and only load them after watching some TV or etc. This sounds like a good idea to me, too. I do this when I'm dry-firing with my carry gun. When I dry-fire with my bedside gun, I do load it and immediately put it back in the bedside safe. Other guns stay unloaded.

[DonovanM]

One of the caveats of dry fire training is being honest with yourself about your sight pictures, especially when practicing transitions.

I've been dry firing more often than a Muslim prays over the past year and a half, and I've got half decent speed, but I have a habit of accepting less than acceptable sight pictures.

I'm working on it. Just something to be aware of.

[chrisnthm]

I am a new poster and have a question.

I recently saw a television show, SWAT Magazine TV, in which they asked several instructors about the value of dry fire practice. I was surprised at some of the answers. If I remember correctly, they ranged from dry firing being important to its not being of much use, except for gun handling and manipulations. I think Louis Awerbuck was in this latter camp, saying it was more important for target or bullseye shooting, as well as the host (Rob Pincus?).

This is at odds with the general consensus that I have garnered from my readings. Am I mistaken, or is dry firing still considered important for good practical marksmanship?

Chris

[part-time shooter]

It makes up the majority of my practice these days and it seems to be paying off big time when I get to the range. I'm sure everyone has their opinion on the matter but it's free and it builds good muscle memory in my case.

If it wasn't for dry fire I'd go weeks or months with no live fire practice at times depending on my work schedule or maybe where in the world I happen to be. I'm no expert on the topic but for me it's the most valuable portion of my practice sessions. I even dry fire on a live range at times if I make a mistake on something and need to slow down and figure out what I did wrong.

I find it to be the best way to work on trigger control issues when coupled with focusing on the front sight. I was having a few issues moving from 1911's back to my Sig and then M&Ps. I'll attribute the fix to dry fire coupled with a few of the well written posts on this forum.

[John Ralston]

I've been doing lots of dry fire practice with a timer to diagnose my "Wasted Movement"...or in many cases my lack of movement. I shaved a ton of time off of reloads and other tasks by using a timer during dry fire. I just find par times from online sources (I usually pick an "Advanced" par time) and try to beat them during my session. When I can't get there, I try to figure out what isn't working and practice until I can get things ironed out. I still have lots of work to do, but most of my advances are due to dry fire.

[ToddG]

I've never met a talented shooter who didn't spend at least some part of his development working hard on dry fire. I've watched the dedicated dry fire practice training at places including US Army Special Forces, ATF, Air Marshals, and FBI. They're not doing it to improve their bullseye shooting.

[John Ralston]

Todd,

What is your opinion on running an LEM trigger for each shot on multiple shot strings? Should it be avoided as per a DA/SA gun? I have been running the trigger for each shot, and my live fire splits and hits are still decent, but certainly not blazing fast. Should I be running the trigger on the first shot and then just simulate a trigger pull on subsequent shots (assuming presentation from the holster)?

[ToddG]

I don't work on shooting speed (splits) during dry fire. I work on marksmanship (sights and trigger) and manipulations. If you specifically want to work on reset, I would manually rack the slide with the trigger held in the rear position.

Exception, of course, is when I'm using my SIRT which has a self-resetting trigger. But even then, much like working with a .22 kit, it is important not to get too dialed in on multiple shot strings because it's too easy to let your grip get sloppier than you can afford when you go back to shooting full power ammo.

[Shellback]

My primary carry gun is a G19/Gen3. At this time I only own one so when I clear the gun for dry fire practice I'm getting a heck of a big collection of once chambered rounds. Does everybody else just save them up to shoot at the range?

The reason I ask is DocGKR specifically states that you should never re-chamber a round, and I've been following his advice, but I end up with a lot of expensive self defense ammo that's "no good" this way.

[orionz06]

I have measured various rounds before and after 10, 20, up to 50 chamberings from slide lock and none have ever set back. After 20 or so there is a measurable difference in the hollow point opening, so that being said, if I dry fire my carry gun, I don't worry too much. I typically use one of my other M&P's to dry fire though, so this is much less of an issue.

[Shellback]

Orion - I appreciate your input. To further clarify Dr. Robert's statement that I mentioned you can read it here. (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?138-Shoot-your-carry-ammo-regularly&p=5597&viewfull=1#post5597)

[John Ralston]

I don't work on shooting speed (splits) during dry fire. I work on marksmanship (sights and trigger) and manipulations. If you specifically want to work on reset, I would manually rack the slide with the trigger held in the rear position.

Exception, of course, is when I'm using my SIRT which has a self-resetting trigger. But even then, much like working with a .22 kit, it is important not to get too dialed in on multiple shot strings because it's too easy to let your grip get sloppier than you can afford when you go back to shooting full power ammo.

Thanks :cool:

[orionz06]

Orion - I appreciate your input. To further clarify Dr. Robert's statement that I mentioned you can read it here. (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?138-Shoot-your-carry-ammo-regularly&p=5597&viewfull=1#post5597)

Yes, but for my particular instance I will maybe rechamber the same round once or twice every 6 months. Out of the gun and into a different mag or a marked box. Given what my particular guns do and the frequency at which I do so, I am not overly concerned, but I am aware. This is one of the reasons I had to do all the Apex crap to more guns so I could dry fire without the hassle.

[CDS tactical]

Integrity counts.