AIWB (Appendix Carry)

[phil_in_cs]

I shoulda known that. Thanks. Maybe a bit of over analysis. I can't buy until early next week anyway.

There are a lot of what seem like good choices. The user's feedback is all over the place here and evrywhere too. The Shaggy is a name I remember reading about positively on another forum a while back. I'll contact manufacturers when the funds are in place about more accurate lead times.

I have decided that whatever rig I get it will be for a G19 but I'm going to use only the G26 in it for summers East. I'm also going to invest in a mag carrier with a clip at the same time. The mag will only be carried coming and going, the gun will be worn for 3-12 hours at a time everyday, all summer. Working in a fast moving food biz, bending reaching etc has been no problem wearing the snub. Bigger T-shirt or golf style polo type and it's good. The G26 in the Rosen CLP does it easily too IMO, I just can't get to it quickly. I'm going to keep it though.

Thanks. Cheers !

-JC

It gets hot here in Texas, and I've got no problems concealing a G19 or even my G34 in the summers. It's all about the holster and belt. For reaching and bending AIWB is a very good location to carry.

[Slopes-2-Shores]

It gets hot here in Texas, and I've got no problems concealing a G19 or even my G34 in the summers. It's all about the holster and belt. For reaching and bending AIWB is a very good location to carry.

My choice isn't so much an inability to hide a bigger gun. I don't need 100% covert carry in my work setting either (which is mainly where I carry). It's because of the dumb laws on the East Coast, MA to be specific. My G26 is a pre-ban era "MA compliant" gun. I could use my newer G19 with pre-ban mags, it would be legal. But if something happens I don't want to have any additional problems and having a "non-approved" gun in MA w/ a non-resident carry permit just seems like it could be a problem despite being legal. I just don't want to have a gun in MA that has any questions about it. Any gun I have in MA is a gun that I bought in MA when a resident there. Just a CYA move on my part, better safe than sorry in the nanny-state of MA.

I'm going to order one of the holsters tomorrow when done traveling. I will update when my choice is made.

Cheers !

-JC

[Slopes-2-Shores]

I just ordered a Shaggy sized for the G19 to carry the G26 mostly. :D

I ordered it with the standard clip and added the leather loops and hardware to try. I decided to not get it with the leather backing.

I really had a hard time choosing between that one and JM Custom AIWB. I'm almost tempted to order both and just sell the one I like less, but must be more cash conservative than that for now.

I feel confident I'll like wearing it. I'm tempted to get a G26 blue gun now as well. I did also spring for some pre-ban G19 mags just in case I decide to bring the 19 east now that a rig that will fit it is on the way.

Thanks for the help and Q&A.

Cheers!

-JC

[GnG]

Hello Everybody,
First time posting. Appreciate the forum and looking forward to being an active participant here.

I've been carrying concealed since 2001. I've been considering AIWB carry for a while now. Like others, I see the advantages and I am also very cautious about the potential dangers of this method of carry. I have a few questions I am hoping you can help me with.

Let me premise this by stating I have read the majority of the posts on this thread. Especially those made by ToddG.

So here I go:

1) I realize the importance of proper training. Until I take an actual class to help me become safer and more proficient with AIWB, are there any instructional video/DVD's that truly illustrate the proper application of this carry method?

2) I just ordered a JM Custom Kydex (was considering the G-Code INCOG). This will be for my G26. Tony has recommended I select a G17 size holster to help keep the gun from rotating and for comfort.

3) I realize the success of carrying AIWB comfortably is partially dependent on body shape and size. I'm currently 6' 206# and loosing (Target 180). I'm more lean muscle than fat but I do have some belly. Looks like this post by "Meat" addresses my concerns

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3597-JM-Custom-Kydex-AIWB-holster-review&p=90625&viewfull=1#post90625

I appreciate any and all advice you can offer.

Thanks in advance

GnG

[GnG]

Consolidated to post above. Sorry.

[Desmond82]

Hello Everybody,
First time posting. Appreciate the forum and looking forward to being an active participant here.

I've been carrying concealed since 2001. I've been considering AIWB carry for a while now. Like others, I see the advantages and I am also very cautious about the potential dangers of this method of carry. I have a few questions I am hoping you can help me with.

Let me premise this by stating I have read the majority of the posts on this thread. Especially those made by ToddG.

So here I go:

1) I realize the importance of proper training. Until I take an actual class to help me become safer and more proficient with AIWB, are there any instructional video/DVD's that truly illustrate the proper application of this carry method?

2) I just ordered a JM Custom Kydex (was considering the G-Code INCOG). This will be for my G26. Tony has recommended I select a G17 size holster to help keep the gun from rotating and for comfort.

3) I realize the success of carrying AIWB comfortably is partially dependent on body shape and size. I'm currently 6' 206# and loosing (Target 180). I'm more lean muscle than fat but I do have some belly. Looks like this post by "Meat" addresses my concerns

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3597-JM-Custom-Kydex-AIWB-holster-review&p=90625&viewfull=1#post90625

I appreciate any and all advice you can offer.

Thanks in advance

GnG

Must read if you haven't already : http://pistol-training.com/archives/7768

[Slopes-2-Shores]

Well, now I know what it feels like to truly have the gun "rotate" or want to lever out of my belt. It didn't really want to flip out but it felt like it could. Just an active shift wearing my G26 in it's Mitch Rosen CLP worn in front proved it to me.
It's a good rig, hides the gun really well, falls a bit short in getting a good grip for me though. I've been wearing it while I wait for my Shaggy to get a better feel for the Glock up front. It's made in the G26/27 length. I still will keep it for deeper concealment though I think.

I can clearly see why the longer holster for using with the G26 is a good idea. I had never really experienced that levering to that extent before.

I'll update when I get my Shaggy. I also ordered a Kytex mag carrier. Cheers!

-JC

[s0nspark]

I took the plunge yesterday and ordered a Keepers Concealment holster for my G20. I like the features and the adjustability it promises - I'll report back once I have it in 2 to 60 months ;-)

Really curious to see how it will stack up against the RCS VG2! That thing has almost spoiled me.

Well I waffled a little after ordering the Keepers and ended up canceling the order and going with a JM Custom Kydex AIWB with soft loops, extra tuck and a mid sweat shield.

MAN!! What a great holster!

So far I feel it gives me everything the VG2 did in terms of comfort while concealing better - carrying the G20 under a t-shirt is doable now. Positioning is much more consistent as well... that will surely improve my draw from concealment.

I'm really glad I took a chance on this... :)

[Whiskey_Bravo]

I have a question for the more experienced M&P AIWB users here.

I have started looking at the M&P 45 series as a dedicated 10 round carry gun since my state recently passed legislation requiring this. I am leaning specifically towards the mid size model with an ambi safety for the added protection during re holstering while AIWB carrying. However, I am interested in adding a set of Crimson Trace laser grips to the pistol which would require me to shave off the right side safety lever. Shaving this safety lever off would eliminate my ability to ride the safety upwards with my trigger finger while reholstering. This kind of defeats the purpose of an external safety for AIWB on a striker fired gun. Would you more experienced users here say it is worth the trade off to have a laser or would it be better to skip out on the laser and keep the ambi saftey?

Bit-O-Background, currently carrying a H&K P2000SK 9mm V3 or a P30LS 9mm V3 AIWB with Kydex holsters. I enjoy the added comfort of being able to use the safety on the P30LS while reholstering and also being able to ride the hammer on both guns while reholstering.

I am only considering a 45 at this time though because of new state laws that require 10 round magazines.

[Erik]

I have a question for the more experienced M&P AIWB users here.

I have started looking at the M&P 45 series as a dedicated 10 round carry gun since my state recently passed legislation requiring this. I am leaning specifically towards the mid size model with an ambi safety for the added protection during re holstering while AIWB carrying. However, I am interested in adding a set of Crimson Trace laser grips to the pistol which would require me to shave off the right side safety lever. Shaving this safety lever off would eliminate my ability to ride the safety upwards with my trigger finger while reholstering. This kind of defeats the purpose of an external safety for AIWB on a striker fired gun. Would you more experienced users here say it is worth the trade off to have a laser or would it be better to skip out on the laser and keep the ambi saftey?

Bit-O-Background, currently carrying a H&K P2000SK 9mm V3 or a P30LS 9mm V3 AIWB with Kydex holsters. I enjoy the added comfort of being able to use the safety on the P30LS while reholstering and also being able to ride the hammer on both guns while reholstering.

I am only considering a 45 at this time though because of new state laws that require 10 round magazines.

Use your thumb to hold the left hand side of the safety up instead of using your trigger finger on the right side. I have been carrying an M&P 9 with thumb safety and crimson trace AIWB for a few years now and this is what I do. I'm also switching over to the mid-size .45 for exactly that reason.

[ToddG]

Shaving this safety lever off would eliminate my ability to ride the safety upwards with my trigger finger while reholstering. This kind of defeats the purpose of an external safety for AIWB on a striker fired gun.

No, it doesn't. The purpose of a safety is prevent the gun from going off. Unless your safety regularly snicks into the FIRE position on its own while holstering, the protection is there even if you lose the ability to ride the lever. The custom 9mm Commander I'm having built by Jason Burton won't have an ambi safety and I'm still very comfortable with its suitability for aiwb.

Furthermore, a proper holster for a gun that will be carried on-safe should not allow the gun to be holstered unless the safety is, in fact, engaged. Just my opinion...

[Erik]

On my M&P, the safety often will be moved into the fire position if I am not conscious of it when I re-holster. It hits the edge of the holster and gets moved as I continue to holster. The sweat shield is flexible enough that the gun can be pushed into the holster with the safety off, although that is generally noticeable as it is happening and the gun does not sit properly in the holster, as the safety is not located in the channel that is molded in for it. Bottom line, though, is it can happen and keeping my thumb registered under the paddle of the safety until my thumb hits the sweat shield prevents it.

[wilco423]

I carry an M&P 45 full size with thumb safety in a JMCK AIWB. It will actually engage the safety as you holster if it's left off. I never even realized this until I just tried it now. Genius. Even before now, I never rode the right side paddle up, and never had an issue.

If a holster forces a pistol off safe as you insert it, get a different holster.

[ToddG]

I carry an M&P 45 full size with thumb safety in a JMCK AIWB. It will actually engage the safety as you holster if it's left off.

As does mine for the 1911.


If a holster forces a pistol off safe as you insert it, get a different holster.

This.

Part of the problem for the M&P is that holsters are probably designed for guns without the thumb safety, and few (if any) will make one specific for the small number of safety-equipped M&P owners.

[orionz06]

Requires possession of a gun with a TS, or a clever mock up.

[Erik]

My holster is leather, molded to account for the thumb safety when the gun is holstered. It won't force the safety on, it can force the safety off and there's enough give to the sweat shield that it is possible to holster with the safety in the off position (although it's also obvious when that happens). I haven't considered this a problem, but I'm no kind of expert and I am listening to what is being said. I'd be interested to hear from others with a leather, as opposed to kydex, holster as to what's normal/should be expected from a leather holster.

[ToddG]

The only leather holster I've used extensively with a thumb-mounted safety pistol is the 5 Shot SME. It was specifically designed to prevent the gun from being holstered with the safety off.

[John Ralston]

The only leather holster I've used extensively with a thumb-mounted safety pistol is the 5 Shot SME. It was specifically designed to prevent the gun from being holstered with the safety off.

That is only for the 1911 versions though...not so for the M&P's.

[JRCHolsters]

Might be the best solution for M&P pistols fit with safeties, is just an abbreviated guard, that does not come in contact with the safety at all. The lever is pretty small.

[JAD]

I ride the port side safety into the holster with 1911s -- I think I always have. I can't think of a holster that interferes with that.

[Erik]

Might be the best solution for M&P pistols fit with safeties, is just an abbreviated guard, that does not come in contact with the safety at all. The lever is pretty small.

That or a cutout for the safety. For what it's worth, I just checked two different makers' kydex holsters and a Safariland holster, all made for an M&P with thumb safety and all three will allow the gun to be holstered with the safety off.

[ToddG]

For what it's worth, I just checked two different makers' kydex holsters and a Safariland holster, all made for an M&P with thumb safety and all three will allow the gun to be holstered with the safety off.

May be because some people carry them safety-off. While I stand by my earlier statement (a gun intended to be carried safety-on needs a holster that forces it to be safety-on), the M&P is a tough problem because not everyone has a safety, and not everyone with a safety carries it safety-on.

Think of a DA/SA HK45: some carry it cocked and locked, others carry it hammer down with the safety off. A holster that allows both will, by necessity, allow the cocked gun to be holstered with the safety off.

[Tikrit Tourist]

Gentlemen,
I apologize for not reading the entire 78 pgs of this thread (I did make it through a third or so...) to find my answer, but....

My question is: I can see the advantages of AIWB, but am SO curious....How does one sit down comfortably while using this carry method?
Where EXACTLY does the slide contact the body?

If one is right handed, does the pistol reside to the right of center?

Love this forum, and feel like it is the first gun forum where I will receive an education!

[NickA]

Gentlemen,
I apologize for not reading the entire 78 pgs of this thread (I did make it through a third or so...) to find my answer, but....

My question is: I can see the advantages of AIWB, but am SO curious....How does one sit down comfortably while using this carry method?
Where EXACTLY does the slide contact the body?

If one is right handed, does the pistol reside to the right of center?

Love this forum, and feel like it is the first gun forum where I will receive an education!

I may not be the best guy for this but I'll take a stab at it. First, understand that AIWB seems to be extremely specific to each individual. Variables like ride height of the holster and length of the gun make a difference, and small shifts in holster position can make big changes in comfort. On the other side your build also changes things- height, do you have a gut, etc. I think that there's some kind of golden mean relating to the length of your torso, "height" and width of your pelvis, circumference of your abdomen,and holster position that has to be met in order to be comfortable :D That said, several holsters seem to fit well for most folks (Shaggy, JM Custom, among others).
To your actual question: sitting shouldn't be uncomfortable at all. I do know that I had an adjustment period where I had to train myself to sit more upright, with my pelvis more vertical (if that makes sense) to prevent getting gouged by either end of the gun. The gun should stay to the right (if right handed) of your navel. Rear of the slide will contact somewhere on your stomach (depending on ride height), muzzle end will be in the crease between your thigh and pubic bone or resting on the side of your pubic bone.
That's one reason many people recommend a longer holster (say, a G17 length for a G26). The longer body will slide along your pelvis as you move, where the shorter holster may dig in as you bend. Even with the longer holsters, bending far enough to tie your shoe can be uncomfortable, but you can work around it.
Hope that all makes sense, if not someone else will be along to explain it better, and no doubt more concisely :p

[David S.]

TT-
After a few days of just playing around with my SIRT trainer (basically Glock 17) in a Shaggy, I found it immediately more comfortable but less concealable than IWB. I'm very tall and pretty skinny so this particular setup gives me a weird pot belly look while standing. Even with the belt buckle moved off to the side, its a no go for concealment. The butt of the gun prints a bit but that could be taken care of by adding a small yaw pad.

But I find it very comfortable.

[Bob45]

Im thinking of trying AIWB, possibly with an Archangel holster. I am about 5-10, 190 with a little bit of a gut. Im thinking of trying it with my M&P9C. I also have a PM9 and a Kimber compact 1911. I think I would prefer the M&P, but Im curious if theres going to be a big difference in comfort or concealability between these three pistols. Thanks for the help

[wilco423]

Im thinking of trying AIWB, possibly with an Archangel holster. I am about 5-10, 190 with a little bit of a gut. Im thinking of trying it with my M&P9C. I also have a PM9 and a Kimber compact 1911. I think I would prefer the M&P, but Im curious if theres going to be a big difference in comfort or concealability between these three pistols. Thanks for the help
A couple months after I started carrying my M&P 45FS in a JMCK AIWB, I picked up a Kimber Custom Carry II and another JMCK AIWB (for a 5" 1911). The slimmer slide of the 1911 is noticeably more comfortable to carry, for me. Both conceal very well for me, but your M&P compact might conceal a bit better than your 1911 due to the shorter grip. Can't really speak to the PM9, or the Archangel specifically, sorry.

[s0nspark]

Im thinking of trying AIWB, possibly with an Archangel holster. I am about 5-10, 190 with a little bit of a gut. Im thinking of trying it with my M&P9C. I also have a PM9 and a Kimber compact 1911. I think I would prefer the M&P, but Im curious if theres going to be a big difference in comfort or concealability between these three pistols. Thanks for the help

If I were you I'd go with a JMCK (my personal fave and current holster) or a CCC Shaggy over the Archangel... The Archangel really does nothing to help tuck or conceal the gun IMO.

Also, if you go with a holster for the M&P9C I highly recommend that you order a holster for the full-size M&P. The extra length does a lot to help stabilize the holster and helps to keep the butt of the gun from leaning away from you, especially if you carry a little extra weight. I started with a holster for a compact Glock but found the full-size Glock holster to be much more comfortable and ride a lot better.

As for which gun, in my experience AIWB does not work as well with smaller guns for primary carry unless you carry them really low on the belt line and, well, that is a huge obstacle when you go to draw. You may find you can carry a larger gun than you think you can once you find the right holster for you. :-)

[Cecil Burch]

As for which gun, in my experience AIWB does not work as well with smaller guns for primary carry unless you carry them really low on the belt line and, well, that is a huge obstacle when you go to draw.

That has not been my experience with my PPS in a Keepers. It has been a perfect mix of concealability, comfort, and access. My guess is that, besides how it pulls the gun in, the solidness of the belt loop plays a part in keeping the smaller gun in place while still allowing great access.

[JV_]

As for which gun, in my experience AIWB does not work as well with smaller guns for primary carry unless you carry them really low on the belt line and, well, that is a huge obstacle when you go to draw.

For me, if the holster is too short the gun wants to roll outward, over the top of the belt, when bending over.

I find that if I use a longer holster, like a Glock 26 in a 19 holster, it works a lot better.

[s0nspark]

For me, if the holster is too short the gun wants to roll outward, over the top of the belt, when bending over.

I find that if I use a longer holster, like a Glock 26 in a 19 holster, it works a lot better.

Yes, that is what I was getting at... not so much a smaller gun, as holster length.

In addition to the tendency to roll out, I found that shorter holsters would jab my pelvis uncomfortably to the point of being totally unwearable, whereas a longer holster did not.

[s0nspark]

That has not been my experience with my PPS in a Keepers. It has been a perfect mix of concealability, comfort, and access. My guess is that, besides how it pulls the gun in, the solidness of the belt loop plays a part in keeping the smaller gun in place while still allowing great access.

I was thinking mainly of the PM9 when I said that... I should have been more specific. "Smaller" was a bit too vague :-)

Just curious... is your Keepers made substantially longer than the PPS to help stabilize it? A pic would be cool if it's not too much trouble.

[l8apex]

Been running a VG2 and it's really easy on quick sprints to the local shopping center or other EDC duties. Glad I picked up AIWB from TLG. 1693


It's the Indian, not the Arrow.

[Default.mp3]

Okay. I need to see photos of that. I am 5'10 and ~165 and I can barely get a Glock 26 to hide under a medium t-shirt AIWB.
To re-iterate what was said in the other thread, I run a P30LS with an X400 with a DG-11 while AIWB using a RCS Phantom with no noticeable concealment issues thus far. I am 5'8", ~135 lbs, 30" waist, and typically wear this get-up with jeans and untucked t-shirts, sized small, which is my default outfit whenever I'm not at work.

http://i.imgur.com/d95s0Txl.jpg (http://imgur.com/d95s0Tx)
http://i.imgur.com/DyNChtMl.jpg (http://imgur.com/DyNChtM)
http://i.imgur.com/fF1yqivl.jpg (http://imgur.com/fF1yqiv)
http://i.imgur.com/NDotsunl.jpg (http://imgur.com/NDotsun)
http://i.imgur.com/0ntvwzil.jpg (http://imgur.com/0ntvwzi)

In the third picture, I'm illustrating with my hand where the holster ends. The most uncomfortable aspect of this setup is actually the mag carrier; I love the positioning for reloading and concealment, but it rides right on top of my hip bone, and can get painful sometimes. I will probably look into replacing it one of these days with something more minimalistic, but it suffices for now.

[Slopes-2-Shores]

I just ordered a Shaggy sized for the G19 to carry the G26 mostly. :D

I ordered it with the standard clip and added the leather loops and hardware to try. I decided to not get it with the leather backing.

I really had a hard time choosing between that one and JM Custom AIWB. I'm almost tempted to order both and just sell the one I like less, but must be more cash conservative than that for now.

I feel confident I'll like wearing it. I'm tempted to get a G26 blue gun now as well. I did also spring for some pre-ban G19 mags just in case I decide to bring the 19 east now that a rig that will fit it is on the way.

Thanks for the help and Q&A.

Cheers!

-JC

OK. I've had the Shaggy about a week now and have been doing plenty of dry and blue gun carry and practice with it. I thought I'd come back here and quickly share my thoughts on it so far.

Well so far it's great ! I have carried it hot too, just not had live fire training with it yet. I had an opportunity to use it in a class but passed because I didn't think it was the right kind of setting for the first live fire course carrying AIWB. I have another opportunity coming up soon again and think it will be much better suited for trying it. The lights will be on!

Having a rig made specifically for AIWB makes all the difference.
The way the wedge shape is built in definitely works well for it's intention. The G26 is entirely accessible using the flush grip and the 19 Blue gun hides and draws so well that carrying the G19 when I get back to it will be no problem at all.
Having a full height sweat guard is key too.
I really like using the snap straps. They aren't leather. I ordered it with the universal belt clip and that is NOT the way to go. It took < 12 practice draws to determine that. I suspect the full kydex loop works well, but it's not what I want to use. The snap loops work great for me.

So far, so good. It's changing the way I look at what's possible for me to carry discreetly and accessibly.

I haven't sold my 4:00 IWB rigs yet - but I'm tempted!

Cheers!

-JC

[jholen]

Greetings,

First time post, just registered. Couldn't sleep so figured I'd get up and read a book. Somehow I instead ended up on this thread, on a topic that I am thoroughly invested in. I've carried a Sig P239 in a High Noon Holster rig AIWB for over 2 years now, off and on, and settled for AIWB as I found it the best option for my body type and it concealed the best. For reason I won't get into I'm selling my Sig P239 and am going to be purchasing a full size 1911, though not entirely decided on which model - I have been leaning towards a Para Black Ops 14-45, which I would like to carry AIWB. Lately, I've been reading quite a bit on newer more designed specific AIWB holsters and this thread is one of the best I've found. So I got off the ipod and logged onto my computer and promptly registered.

Prior to this thread, here are the three holsters I had been considering for AIWB (listed in no specific order):


Dale Fricke - Archangel (http://dalefrickeholsters.com/products/?product=H562T5ZXTQ67A)
Garret Industries - Silent Thunder Slim II Apendix Carry (http://garrettindustries.mybigcommerce.com/silent-thunder-slim-ii-appendix-carry/)
TT Gunleather - Reinforced AIWB (http://www.ttgunleather.com/catalog/i94.html)
Garrity's Gunleather - In-Victus (http://www.garritysgunleather.com/In-Victus.htm)


After reading this, it seems there are a number of others - listed below:


CCC Shaggy (http://shop.customcarryconcepts.com/Shaggy-AIWB-SHG.htm)
JM Custom - AIWB (http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html)
5 Shot SME (http://www.5shotleather.com/sme.htm)
JRC AIWB (http://jrcholsters.com/holsters/inside-the-waistband/8-aiwb-cda) (almost got this one mixed up with JM Custom)
Keepers Concealment AIWB (sorry, no website)


Ok, so now I'm really TORN! Seems there are so many options out there I'm not sure what to go with. I've read here that many consider the Dale Fricke as a holster not entirely designed for AIWB but rather one that was simply put into that role which leads to some issues with tucking the grip tight into the body. It seems the top two that keep being repeated here have been the CCC Shaggy as well as the JM Custom, however I'm curious to get some more feedback. I'm guessing it will come down to ordering 2 or 3 and see which works best, as I know everyone's body types and specific needs are different. Has anyone received the 5 Shot SME who preferred another holster on this list (or I suppose one not on this list?), or has everyone once they've received their SME shelved their others?

Thanks,
Jonathan

[Wendell]

Has anyone received the 5 Shot SME who preferred another holster on this list (or I suppose one not on this list?), or has everyone once they've received their SME shelved their others?

The Shaggy is a bargain; it's still fairly uncommon (if not exclusive), with a (subjectively) perfect ride height, excellent "tuck", (subjectively) perfect retention, and it is very comfortable. Aesthetically, it's a (very well-made) black Kydex holster.

The SME is more expensive, more exclusive, better-looking, with a lower ride, a more-consistent "tuck", a much-greater level of weapon-retention, a predictible durability, and it is very comfortable. Aesthetically, it's a $200. holster.

As you've no doubt read, some CQB subject matter experts have expressed concerns about the weapon-retention capability and durability of a Kydex holster in a violent fight.

I think I still prefer the Shaggy to the SME.

[LittleLebowski]

As you've no doubt read, some CQB subject matter experts have expressed concerns about the weapon-retention capability and durability of a Kydex holster in a violent fight.


Who? I'm seriously curious.

[Wendell]

Who? I'm seriously curious.

"...For several years, Todd and I had hoped to get a really functional leather AIWB holster. The over-riding reason is that leather is tougher than kydex. Period. I’ve seen just about every brand of kydex holster break at one time or another, in a class, or out for real. Leather is not only tougher, but many of us find that it has a slight edge in weapons retention. Where a kydex holster has the gun either “locked in” or not, a leather holster can add useful drag during the whole draw. That’s especially true if you are in a compromised position, and the gun is slowly being pried out of the holster. That extra drag can help you retain the gun in a fight, where a kydex holster would not. Surprisingly, that extra drag doesn’t slow the draw down at all when you intend to draw it fast. There are faster guys on this board than me, but I can consistently hit a 1.1 second concealed carry draw with this holster (8” circle at 7 yards), and Todd has gotten down to the mid .8‘s. A leather holster is also MUCH harder to break or rip off of your belt..." (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5628-5-Shot-Leather-LLC-announces-the-release-of-the-SME!)

[LittleLebowski]

"...For several years, Todd and I had hoped to get a really functional leather AIWB holster. The over-riding reason is that leather is tougher than kydex. Period. I’ve seen just about every brand of kydex holster break at one time or another, in a class, or out for real. Leather is not only tougher, but many of us find that it has a slight edge in weapons retention. Where a kydex holster has the gun either “locked in” or not, a leather holster can add useful drag during the whole draw. That’s especially true if you are in a compromised position, and the gun is slowly being pried out of the holster. That extra drag can help you retain the gun in a fight, where a kydex holster would not. Surprisingly, that extra drag doesn’t slow the draw down at all when you intend to draw it fast. There are faster guys on this board than me, but I can consistently hit a 1.1 second concealed carry draw with this holster (8” circle at 7 yards), and Todd has gotten down to the mid .8‘s. A leather holster is also MUCH harder to break or rip off of your belt..." (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5628-5-Shot-Leather-LLC-announces-the-release-of-the-SME!)

Thanks, all you had to say was "SLG" :D I'm lucky enough to know the guy. His word carries a lot of weight with me.

[YVK]

Ok, so now I'm really TORN!


... Has anyone received the 5 Shot SME who preferred another holster on this list (or I suppose one not on this list?), or has everyone once they've received their SME shelved their others?

Thanks,
Jonathan

A number of SMEs have sold in classifieds, indicating that not everybody thought they were worth keeping. That said, some people have multiples of them; gent who bought one of mine had already owned two for same gun. I sold my Glock and M&P SMEs; the former was riding too low even with extended loop, the latter I didn't want to spend time breaking in. I am keeping my P30 that works for me with extended loop.

Not only there is significant individual variability between users, I found that some holsters work differently with different guns. For me, P30 presents its grip better/higher than glocks from same holsters - conclusion I made from owning Shaggy, Invictus, SME and Kolbeson for both guns. I have small issues with JM kydex for my Beretta, but I can't say anything negative about the rig because a) it could be me b) it could be Beretta, since multiple users rave about JMK with other guns.

So, now you should be really torn:cool:

FWIW, Shaggy for kydex and Texas Comfort 2 for leather are my favorites, but I do modify both with foam wedges at the muzzle end.

[jholen]

...

So, now you should be really torn:cool:

FWIW, Shaggy for kydex and Texas Comfort 2 for leather are my favorites, but I do modify both with foam wedges at the muzzle end.
Yes, this thread hasn't made it easy. And now you mention Texas Comfort 2, which I haven't heard of (also, are you saying that you prefer the Texas Comfort 2 over the SME?). I hope not to come across as indecisive, I'm just someone who tries to get as much research before trying to make the best educated decision I can make, so I appreciate all the input and this HUGE thread!

As to this foam wedge, I can only assume you are placing it on the inside so it levers the muzzle out away from the body thus pushing the grip into your body?

[JodyH]

Capt. Ahab had an easier time finding his whale than you'll have finding the perfect AIWB holster.
Just buy the one that looks best to you... but know that you'll be buying another two or three before your search is (temporarily) over.
Also know that the search for the great white whale of AIWB carry will never be over.

[YVK]

also, are you saying that you prefer the Texas Comfort 2 over the SME?

As to this foam wedge, I can only assume you are placing it on the inside so it levers the muzzle out away from the body thus pushing the grip into your body?

Correct on both. TC presents gun higher than SME and is molded less tight. I give up no speed at all as compared with kydex. My criticism of TC's first iteration was slightly too high of a ride and loop design that allowed for loop rotation (Josh built me custom loops to address the latter). TC2 addressed both points, loops are integral and the ride is lower. For my preferences, it is great, and I make it even more concealed with wedge.
SME, on the other hand, conceals perfectly as is, but I am notably slower with it - which doesn't prevent me using it anyway.
The foam wedge goes on muzzle end towards the body and serves two purposes - driving grip into you, and orienting reholstering direction away from body. Invictus was the first design that had it built in, Keeper attaches it by velcro (that's how I do it), while Cane and Derby and JM Kydex make it in kydex. I think JMC also uses it.

[jholen]

Correct on both. TC presents gun higher than SME and is molded less tight. I give up no speed at all as compared with kydex. My criticism of TC's first iteration was slightly too high of a ride and loop design that allowed for loop rotation (Josh built me custom loops to address the latter). TC2 addressed both points, loops are integral and the ride is lower. For my preferences, it is great, and I make it even more concealed with wedge.
SME, on the other hand, conceals perfectly as is, but I am notably slower with it - which doesn't prevent me using it anyway.
The foam wedge goes on muzzle end towards the body and serves two purposes - driving grip into you, and orienting re holstering direction away from body. Invictus was the first design that had it built in, Keeper attaches it by velcro (that's how I do it), while Cane and Derby and JM Kydex make it in kydex. I think JMC also uses it.
You make an interesting point, and one that I'm curious of; Ride Height

My experience is solely with my P239, though I've experimented with my unloaded duty issue Sig P220 in the same holster, a High Noon Holster Hidden Ally (http://highnoonholsters.com/Product_Line/Hidden_Ally/hidden_ally.html), and I'd describe the ride height as fairly low. Some of the challenges I associate that go along with the lower ride height, despite the better concealment, are the end of the slide seems to dig into the gut much more often and while driving I've found myself "hiking" the gun up to ease some of the pressure of the holster/gun when seated - also gives more of a presentation to me when seated.

I've never tried a high ride AIWB carry, so might be due to try one out. What can a person typically expect when going from a low ride holster to a high ride? Does it help when seated or bending over?

Thanks for the wealth of info (p.s. Gotta get the gun first, and I'm still not decided yet)!

[nalesq]

I've never tried a high ride AIWB carry, so might be due to try one out. What can a person typically expect when going from a low ride holster to a high ride? Does it help when seated or bending over?

Generally, the higher the ride, the more the grip will have a tendency to print, especially if your have any kind of gut that sort of muffin-tops over your waistline, as the muffin top pushes the grip outwards. Muffin-topping is of course aggravated when you bend over or sit down. When this happens, sometimes the muffin top can also push the muzzle inwards at an uncomfortable angle. Some people with unusually short torsos and no gut might also get poked in the ribs a bit, when severely bent over with a high riding AIWB pistol with a pokey beavertail or something.

So while the higher ride is usually a bit more comfortable with a pistol with a longer slide/barrel when seated or bent over, there are some potential drawbacks as well, depending on your specific body and gun geometry.

[JodyH]

High ride AIWB holsters also have a tendency to "roll" on the belt due to more weight above the belt line and less surface area below the belt.
Your 0 degree cant holster eventually becomes a +/- 15 degree cant holster.

I run a Kolbeson Texas Comfort with my P2000 but with something like my P2000SK it would be too top heavy and prone to rolling around on me.
The shorter guns need a lower ride, hence my use of a Highnoon Hideaway for my P2000SK.

AIWB holster selection is a trial and error process that will be unique to every gun and person.

[YVK]

I used "high ride" in a relative sense. I absolutely don't want holster to ride higher than it has to, for the reasons that were explained in the posts above - concealment and torsional stability. I want the lowest ride possible that allows for an unimpeded grip. I guess that my draw technique, body and finger size are such that for many, but not all, guns I prefer a slightly higher ride than what's considered standard option for the holster. This is also a function of a holster design, of course, with different holsters presenting guns differently. This is why I think Shaggy and JM Kydex are good starting choices as they conceal well, don't break a bank and allow for some amount of ride height adjustment very easily.

[jholen]

So in thinking about this, both the TXC2 and SME both seem to be a ways out for getting my hands on. The more realistic options, which appear to be recommended more often here in this thread are:


JM Custom
JRC
CCC Shaggy


Sound like a good starting point? Would give me 2 kydex and one leather holster to start out with. Then could possibly look into the TXC2 (Run scheduled for Jan '14) and or get on the list for a run of the SME. I think I've knocked off the DFH, Garret Industries, and the TT Gunleather - realistically I can only afford to select three, and I think the three I'm considering are a good start. Let me know if you feel otherwise. I'll also be picking up a new 1.75" belt from Mike over @ http://www.armourbelts.com/ to compliment my already existing 1.5" belt from High Noon Holsters. Curious to try a 1.75" belt, for a bit more added weight support, and Mike's stuff has come highly recommended.

Thoughts? Concerns? I consider you all much more experienced than myself, so feel free to weigh in on this educated guess (my part is the guess, this threads/your part is the education).

Thanks all!
- J

[YVK]

I think 1.75 belt would complicate things unnecessarily. AIWB isn't very forgiving to movement, and I would be worried about it when using 1.5 inch belt with 1.75 loop. No first hand experience with this, though.
I personally would start with one holster, I know of people who never made AIWB work for them, but if you wish to get three, those are good choices.

[Wendell]

I agree completely (and 1.5" is what I decided to stick with).
Having said that, most of the above-mentioned manufacturers would be willing to sell you two different belt loops with each holster, should you decide you want to play around with different belt widths.

[JRCHolsters]

I agree completely (and 1.5" is what I decided to stick with).
Having said that, most of the above-mentioned manufacturers would be willing to sell you two different belt loops with each holster, should you decide you want to play around with different belt widths.

That is correct on my part. The AIWB-CDA II loops can be changed out very easily. Adjustable ride heights would be the same with either belt.

[North Ga Hillbilly]

Kydex loops are also really easily made. Im no kydex wizz, a usable AIWB holster is beyond me without a doubt, but I was able to turn out these loops on my first try and have since made several others to try and perfect my rig.

The two on top were yet to be trimmed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/phergus_25/IMAG0878_zps5d81d11f.jpg

Greg

[jholen]

I hear you on the 1.5" belt with a holster designed for 1.75" - something I had not originally thought of, good point! My thinking on the 1.75" belt was simply because of the increase weight of the steel framed 1911; while I know a 1.5" belt will work just fine, I'm guessing a 1.75" belt will offer more support. Weights seems like the issue with carrying a 1911, but you bring up a good point.

I've carried AIWB before, and know it worked for my Sig P239, but just not with a full size 1911 - hence putting in orders for a few holsters, to see which works the best. I did this with my Sig and sold the others that didn't work for me, so going into this with a similar mindset. The second hand market on here looks hopping, so I'm also keeping my eye out in the WTS section. Looks like I'll have to ponder on this belt decision!

[jholen]

Read through the thread a second time tonight and caught another holster that I had missed on the first go-around:

Desbien's Gunleather - #4 Hardcore (http://www.desbiensgunleather.com/iwb-holster/)

Looks like a nice product, and even had input from some here on the thread. I also like his Covert Reverse Cant Mag Holder - seems it'd allow placement VERY similar to where I carry on duty.

[YVK]

Mine is for a full sized 1911 with a Dawson rail. If your 1911 has a similar rail, you won't have a lot of trouble convincing me to sell mine to you:D

[jholen]

Mine is for a full sized 1911 with a Dawson rail. If your 1911 has a similar rail, you won't have a lot of trouble convincing me to sell mine to you:DThe holster just didn't work for you?

[Wendell]

Read through the thread a second time tonight and caught another holster that I had missed on the first go-around:

Desbien's Gunleather - #4 Hardcore (http://www.desbiensgunleather.com/iwb-holster/)

Looks like a nice product, and even had input from some here on the thread. I also like his Covert Reverse Cant Mag Holder - seems it'd allow placement VERY similar to where I carry on duty.

Mine has no tuck whatsoever, so the (G19) grip prints, and the (standard) ride is too low to get a full firing grip. Desbiens also makes a high-ride version (which is what I coulda/shoulda ordered).

[YVK]

The holster just didn't work for you?

Unfortunately, no. Didn't conceal. I made it to be a test bed for user modifications. Some of them didn't do well to its finish :o. It was the first one I velcroed one of my foam wedges to, which made things better, and that was a valuable lesson.
Another valuable lesson was not to order an exotic leather holster that you're not 100% sure about...

[MGW]

Mine has no tuck whatsoever, so the (G19) grip prints, and the (standard) ride is too low to get a full firing grip. Desbiens also makes a high-ride version (which is what I coulda/shoulda ordered).

My experience too. It is very comfortable though and so I keep using it until I find something better. A G26 absolutely disappears in it but a 19 takes a bigger shirt.

I've tried Kydex and leather and prefer leather.

[Adam]

This is a great, informative thread guys. Thank you for all the great info.

I’ve had a Blade-tech Fits All (Glock) IWB in the Holster Box O Fail (for me) for a couple years. This spring I removed one belt loop and have been carrying a G26 or 19 AIWB with it ever since and I must say, I’m pretty much hooked. Control over the pistol, concealability, not worrying about printing while bending over, etc. are all leaps and bounds better (for me) than carrying strong side. Only one down side as Todd mentions at the beginning of this thread.

The one thing I’m still working through is the holster is effectively just short of G19 muzzle length and thus it can roll a bit on the belt as you know. It also has the muzzle pointing straight at my pelvis while seated in the car.

I’ve seen discussion somewhere, but can anyone comment on comfort vs stability with a longer holster e.g. one for a G17 or even a 34 for carrying a 19 say? I like the wedge system Spencer uses and other muzzle stand off options as well.

[Up1911Fan]

Although i'm shooting Sig's a lot now, I haven't switched over for carry yet. Still carrying a G19 in a G17 JM Custom AIWB and much prefer it to the same holster in G19 length.

[Clusterfrack]

The one thing I’m still working through is the holster is effectively just short of G19 muzzle length and thus it can roll a bit on the belt as you know. It also has the muzzle pointing straight at my pelvis while seated in the car.

I’ve seen discussion somewhere, but can anyone comment on comfort vs stability with a longer holster e.g. one for a G17 or even a 34 for carrying a 19 say? I like the wedge system Spencer uses and other muzzle stand off options as well.

I've been carrying my G19 AIWB in a G17 sized JM Custom for a couple months and at least for me it addresses the concern you raise. Even when sitting, the muzzle end of the holster rides between my thigh and my junk. Before I went "live" with the new setup I tested the direction of the muzzle under a wide variety of postures. With an empty gun, I inserted a pencil in the barrel, and felt myself up. At worst, the pencil tip pointed through maybe 1/2" of inner thigh muscle. All of the positions kept the muzzle clear of critical body parts, including Mr. Johnson and the boys.

[Adam]

Although i'm shooting Sig's a lot now, I haven't switched over for carry yet. Still carrying a G19 in a G17 JM Custom AIWB and much prefer it to the same holster in G19 length.


I've been carrying my G19 AIWB in a G17 sized JM Custom for a couple months and at least for me it addresses the concern you raise. Even when sitting, the muzzle end of the holster rides between my thigh and my junk. Before I went "live" with the new setup I tested the direction of the muzzle under a wide variety of postures. With an empty gun, I inserted a pencil in the barrel, and felt myself up. At worst, the pencil tip pointed through maybe 1/2" of inner thigh muscle. All of the positions kept the muzzle clear of critical body parts, including Mr. Johnson and the boys.

Thanks guys. I like the ideal of maybe a 34 sized holster (and I may carry a 34 down the road who knows). As with most things, I won't know until I try it. Really liking AIWB though.

[HCountyGuy]

I skimmed through here, and may have overlooked it, but I wanted to ask anyway.

Does anybody here effectively carry a P229R AIWB? I've toyed with the concept with my P229R and a Galco Triton (which isn't working out too well for this role). I know getting jabbed in the gut is an inevitability. I can't seem to find my sweet spot quite yet and have the gun poke me in the thigh when I go to sit, and I sure as fire can't bend over to save my life this way.

If it matters, I'm 5'11 and 225, with a little bit of a gut.

If you carry a P229 AIWB, would you mind sharing in what holster and perhaps a few pictures? Thanks in advance!

[jholen]

So I'm wavering in my decision on a 1911, and recently after reading the Larry/Ken interview on the HK45, am considering a HK45C - just need to go take a look at one at a LGS.

Anyone running a Hk45 or HK45C in AIWB? Would appreciate any insight.

Thanks,
Jonathan

[SGT_Calle]

I carry my HK45C almost exclusively, AIWB in a JRC holster made for a P30 or HK45, I don't remember. I picked up the holster here and it works great for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m/)

[JM Campbell]

Todd ran a HK45 in a torture test exclusively using AIWB. Check out his 50,000+ round thoughts on it at www.pistol-training.com in the archives.

ETA: http://pistol-training.com/archives/category/range-reports/hk45

[jholen]

Todd ran a HK45 in a torture test exclusively using AIWB. Check out his 50,000+ round thoughts on it at www.pistol-training.com in the archives.

ETA: http://pistol-training.com/archives/category/range-reports/hk45

Yeah I briefly read the torture test week 37 I think. I'll check it out more in depth.


I carry my HK45C almost exclusively, AIWB in a JRC holster made for a P30 or HK45, I don't remember. I picked up the holster here and it works great for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m/)Carry any extra mags?

I was eyeballing the JRC holster, as well as his magazine holders.

[1slow]

I have carried HK45s in CCC Shaggy with leather heat shield. Works well, fast, comfortable, held up well for several thousand practice draws.

[SGT_Calle]

Yeah I briefly read the torture test week 37 I think. I'll check it out more in depth.

Carry any extra mags?

I was eyeballing the JRC holster, as well as his magazine holders.

Usually a 10 round in my back left pocket in the summer, in a generic holder in the winter. I'm 6' 3" and 180 lbs, magazines seem to stick out on my thin profile, lol.

[justintime]

does anyone have a favorite aiwb holster specifically for the p229?

[lightning fast]

does anyone have a favorite aiwb holster specifically for the p229?

I believe the host of Ballistic Radio carries a 229 (I know it's at least a Sig). He has switched to the Dark Star Gear aiwb holster.

ETA: just checked. It's a 226, sorry.

[tcRenegade]

Just ordered a Phlster Skeleton. Anxiously awaiting. Check their site out!

[Kobalt60]

My AIWB holster from JM Custom Kydex came in last Wednesday. I'm really loving this thing. I wish I didn't have a gut for the corner of my G23 to poke, but that's my fault. It's sooo much better than the GCODE Incog I tried.

[Kyle Reese]

does anyone have a favorite aiwb holster specifically for the p229?

I've got a CCC Shaggy for mine and I love it.

[justintime]

I've got a CCC Shaggy for mine and I love it.

You would not happen to be a skinny man-child like I am would you? Also how does it holster? The only holster I could find local (Until I get a proper aiwb setup going) was a comp-tac infidel... which seems to push the gun out of battery a lot.

[lightning fast]

You would not happen to be a skinny man-child like I am would you? Also how does it holster? The only holster I could find local (Until I get a proper aiwb setup going) was a comp-tac infidel... which seems to push the gun out of battery a lot.

I'm part of the Scrawny Kids Club.

The Shaggy works great in terms of tucking in the grip. But a holster that rides higher, like the JM Custom works better for me.

[justintime]

I'm part of the Scrawny Kids Club.

The Shaggy works great in terms of tucking in the grip. But a holster that rides higher, like the JM Custom works better for me.

I was considering the JM.. however I like them to ride aiwb as low as possible. So long as I can get a firing grip it seems to conceal the grip better for me that way. The only problem I have with low holsters is with guns that have longer than 4" barrels. Does the JM ride significantly higher than the shaggy?

[lightning fast]

I was considering the JM.. however I like them to ride aiwb as low as possible. So long as I can get a firing grip it seems to conceal the grip better for me that way. The only problem I have with low holsters is with guns that have longer than 4" barrels. Does the JM ride significantly higher than the shaggy?

With the Standard height hardware, no. It's nearly identical.
With my fullsize M&P, it's perfectly comfortable... even driving for 5+ hours.

[Dos Cylindros]

My personal build is 6'0" and about 185 to 190 lbs (no gut). So far I have tried the Dale Fricke Archangel and the G-Code INCOG (for a full size M&P and a Glock 23). Yesterday I took delivery of my JM Custom Kydex AIWB and feel like I have found my holy grail of AIWB holsters. Unlike the previous two holsters, I can get a full grip on the gun prior to the draw without dragging or banging my knuckles on the top of my Atlas belt. The wedge feature does an outstanding job of tucking the but of the grip up against my body and in a fairly slim fitting shit I have no printing at all. The holster is stable on the belt (I went with the cloth pull the dot loops) and is hands down more comfortable than my previous two holsters. Fit and finish of the holster are very good and I wore this holster all day with no discomfort, especially while driving. I highly recommend the JM Custom AIWB.

[JAD]

This might be a little too goofy to get a response, but has anyone run a high power extensively in aiwb? I am worried about getting poked to death with the hammer, but would otherwise like a chance to try it.

[Adam]

This might be a little too goofy to get a response, but has anyone run a high power extensively in aiwb? I am worried about getting poked to death with the hammer, but would otherwise like a chance to try it.

I would think the cocked hammer would be murder on your torso when bending and sitting.

[Rich@CCC]

JAD,
I haven't gotten any feedback at all but I have sold more than a few(but not quite a lot) Shaggys for the High Power. Evidently there are at at least a few people carrying them AIWB.

[JAD]

Rich,

That's pretty solid, thanks for the feedback.

Jon

[Rich]

Capt. Ahab had an easier time finding his whale than you'll have finding the perfect AIWB holster.
Just buy the one that looks best to you... but know that you'll be buying another two or three before your search is (temporarily) over.
Also know that the search for the great white whale of AIWB carry will never be over.

Aint that the truth!

I'm on my 3rd and still haven't shot my pistol yet.

When my JM IWB-L gets here and if my hand heals I hope to be shooting soon

[Rich]

I predict the CrossBreed aiwb (http://crossbreedholsters.com/SuperTuckDeluxe/tabid/90/CategoryID/1/List/0/Level/1/ProductID/39/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName%2cProductName) will be popular and, like other CrossBreed holsters, not something I'd use if I could make a string holster (http://www.ehow.com/how_7583384_string-holsters.html) from my own entrails instead.

I'm not at all a fan of these so-called hybrid holsters. The big shirt guard tends to flop over and close at what should be the holster mouth, forcing many people to use two hands to reholster their gun (which, with aiwb, means you're very likely not able to hold your concealment garment out of the way, eliminating your ability to see what you're doing) and also leading to a dangerous tendency of pointing the gun inward toward the body during the holstering process.

I've actually seen more students struggle and become dangerous with CrossBreed and similar hybrid holsters than SERPAs, and that's saying something.

It's also telling that the new CrossBreed aiwb is only designed for small pistols. They don't even offer it for something as easily concealed as a Glock 19. From the photos it appears there is nothing to keep the butt pressed into the body or to control yaw. It also looks like there is a one-size-fits-all back, so if you get one for a tiny gun you're stuck with a giant shirt guard and footprint.

http://crossbreedholsters.com/Portals/0/Images/Appendix-Carry/ac-3guns.png

When I first saw the crossbreed I thought it was a joke.

[imp1295]

A few points of background and a question about comfort:

I've been working with AIWB with a M&P 9C in a variety of full size M&P holsters for about 19 months or so. What I've found is that given my build the holster will end up resting on my pelvic area between the pelvic crease and my bits (so to speak). the issue is I will get a hot spot there. Given my build I carry around 12-1 oclock and cant move any closer to my hip because then the holster will actually sit in my pelvic crease.

I have tried pulling my pants up higher to increase the pant rise. (a bit uncomfortable). I've tried different belt tensions very tight, to very loose.
So far I've sued the JMC with extra tuck (both with snap loops and kydex loop), CCC Shaggy with loops and kydex loop, SME and a ArchAngel.

Sometimes it seems to work, but if I sit at the desk for a while the pistol will rest on that spot in my pelvis. I have a fairly athletic build, 32" waist at 5'8" and 168. It may be that I'm a bit short waisted not sure.

Do you all keep your belts super tight or loose to allow the holster to move with you or sit still?

I was able to wear a JM custom with no tuck with a M9 for hours on end, but that was in ACUs and your typical pants just don't fit quit that same?

Any ideas on pants that have a higher rise than others? I've seem to have the most success with Kuhl brand jeans, but even then sometimes there are issues.

thanks ahead of time for any help provided.

[John Ralston]

A few points of background and a question about comfort:

I've been working with AIWB with a M&P 9C in a variety of full size M&P holsters for about 19 months or so. What I've found is that given my build the holster will end up resting on my pelvic area between the pelvic crease and my bits (so to speak). the issue is I will get a hot spot there. Given my build I carry around 12-1 oclock and cant move any closer to my hip because then the holster will actually sit in my pelvic crease.

I have tried pulling my pants up higher to increase the pant rise. (a bit uncomfortable). I've tried different belt tensions very tight, to very loose.
So far I've sued the JMC with extra tuck (both with snap loops and kydex loop), CCC Shaggy with loops and kydex loop, SME and a ArchAngel.

Sometimes it seems to work, but if I sit at the desk for a while the pistol will rest on that spot in my pelvis. I have a fairly athletic build, 32" waist at 5'8" and 168. It may be that I'm a bit short waisted not sure.

Do you all keep your belts super tight or loose to allow the holster to move with you or sit still?

I was able to wear a JM custom with no tuck with a M9 for hours on end, but that was in ACUs and your typical pants just don't fit quit that same?

Any ideas on pants that have a higher rise than others? I've seem to have the most success with Kuhl brand jeans, but even then sometimes there are issues.

thanks ahead of time for any help provided.

I find short guns to be less than ideal for AIWB...anything shorter than a G19 CAN cause an issue. Long slides slide past everything and sit out in space instead of having the muzzle sitting on flesh.

[BobLoblaw]

What I've found is that given my build the holster will end up resting on my pelvic area between the pelvic crease and my bits (so to speak). the issue is I will get a hot spot there. Given my build I carry around 12-1 oclock and cant move any closer to my hip because then the holster will actually sit in my pelvic crease.

We have about the same build and I carry hours on end in the same place with the holsters for similar firearms and they all sit in my pelvic crease. The wider the holster, the more I noticed for the most part. I fixed the hot spot by adding loop-side Velcro to the rear side of the holster/location of the hot spot (such as the extra tuck bulge on the JMCK). Wearing underwear that doesn't have thick seams around the pelvic crease made a big difference too.

[MGW]

I've found that how the pants fit makes a huge difference and not just waist size. If they are a slimmer fit AIWB will be less comfortable and tend to cause hot spots like you described.

[imp1295]

I find short guns to be less than ideal for AIWB...anything shorter than a G19 CAN cause an issue. Long slides slide past everything and sit out in space instead of having the muzzle sitting on flesh.

John thanks for the reply. All of my holsters are for a full size M&P. even my SME Sometimes rubs at that location. Could be my build or I could just need a foam pad since I'm a softy in that area.

[imp1295]

We have about the same build and I carry hours on end in the same place with the holsters for similar firearms and they all sit in my pelvic crease. The wider the holster, the more I noticed for the most part. I fixed the hot spot by adding loop-side Velcro to the rear side of the holster/location of the hot spot (such as the extra tuck bulge on the JMCK). Wearing underwear that doesn't have thick seams around the pelvic crease made a big difference too.

Thanks for the advice I may give that a whirl.

[Trajan]

I saw on SSD that there is a new horizontal AIWB pouch out. Question for those guys who carry like that: how the hell do you conceal it?

I carry my mag(s) IWB at 1130ish (only one CCW, two if the class calls for it). Has worked well for me except one time in a class after just getting a new double pouch I go for the front most mag and fumbled the reload badly (caught shirt, hit the deck. Lesson learned, go for the left most mag when carrying two). Quite embarrassing.

I can see how the horizontal might be slightly faster, and easier to access. Looks like you completely give up any concealment though.

[JodyH]

I saw on SSD that there is a new horizontal AIWB pouch out. Question for those guys who carry like that: how the hell do you conceal it?

I carry my mag(s) IWB at 1130ish (only one CCW, two if the class calls for it). Has worked well for me except one time in a class after just getting a new double pouch I go for the front most mag and fumbled the reload badly (caught shirt, hit the deck. Lesson learned, go for the left most mag when carrying two). Quite embarrassing.

I can see how the horizontal might be slightly faster, and easier to access. Looks like you completely give up any concealment though.
It's all body and gear specific.
I can easily conceal a P2000 magazine horizontally at 11 o'clock while also carrying a P2000 AIWB at 1 o'clock under just a t-shirt.
The horizontal mag carrier at 11 o'clock actually conceals better for me than the traditional 9-10 o'clock mag location.

[jholen]

I can conceal two horizontal mag's for my 1911, carried at approximately 11 and 12, with my AIWB JM at 1230/1 o'clock. Granted, this is conceal with a button up shirt, but it does work. I find the slight bulge from the holster, allows for that second mag to fit in between the first one (@ 11 o'clock) and the holster.

[BoppaBear]

I'm carrying one of CCC's mag pouches, but flipped around to be worn IWB at 11. Works well for me.

[Rich]

It's all body and gear specific.
I can easily conceal a P2000 magazine horizontally at 11 o'clock while also carrying a P2000 AIWB at 1 o'clock under just a t-shirt.
The horizontal mag carrier at 11 o'clock actually conceals better for me than the traditional 9-10 o'clock mag location.


I carry a double stack mag horizontally between 11 and 12. Bullets down .
I use a Wilderness H mag holder. Its made out of nylon and kydex.
Its the best mag holder for ME that Ive found in the last 30yrs.
Conceal better for me as well. Un tuck Tshirt

I cant stand the traditional V mag holders and location.

[frankepc]

sorry if something like this has already been discussed but there is a ton of info on this thread. Does anyone know of a holster similar to the Galco royal guard gen 2 but with a neutral cant?

[Wendell]

sorry if something like this has already been discussed but there is a ton of info on this thread. Does anyone know of a holster similar to the Galco royal guard gen 2 but with a neutral cant?

A custom order and a long wait is in your future...perhaps from 5-Shot (http://www.5shotleather.com/iwb.htm), Del Fatti (http://www.delfatti.com/), or Milt Sparks (http://www.miltsparks.com/).

[Isaac]

I've asked Milt Sparks about neutral cant, they said no. (about a year ago)

[Chuck Whitlock]

A lot lower speed than the custom guys, and I've heard that delivery times have increased, but Don Hume has a double snap neutral cant holster:

http://www.donhume.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_5&products_id=34&zenid=vnkkj7tsjib7pjcag760cplb12

I had one years ago that I sold off because I wanted a cant. I recall it being serviceable.

[wtsmithgall]

I just finished reading the entire 86 pages - excellent information!

To pay it forward, I captured the web sites for ever holster I saw mentioned (may have missed a few). Here is the complete list (minus Keeper, so I included a review site that has his email address):

http://jrcholsters.com/holsters/inside-the-waistband
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/the-keeper-appendix-carry-holster
http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html
http://shop.customcarryconcepts.com/Shaggy-AIWB-SHG.htm
http://dalefrickeholsters.com/product/archangel-2-appendix-carry/
http://www.giholsters.com/silent-thunder-iwb/
http://www.desbiensgunleather.com/iwb-holster/
http://www.5shotleather.com/sme.htm
https://www.highnoonholsters.com/Product_Line/Belt_Holsters/Inside_The_Waistband/inside_the_waistband.html
http://shop.blade-tech.com/nano-holster-c-1_13_16.html#.U0xjj14hNUY
http://www.garritysgunleather.com/In-Victus.htm
http://www.mcssl.com/store/a9856d0dead4463ea8f07338d4d909/catalog/product/23a0000062404fedb1d5c181e84171e1
http://www.shopleatherworks.com/appendix-special-aiwb/
http://darkstargear.com/aiwb/
http://www.phlster.com/#!product/prd1/924401054/skeleton
http://www.tacticalholsters.com/product/INCOG.html

[Bob45]

Any recommendations for an AIWB holster for a smaller gun, Kahr PM9?

[JM Campbell]

Dark Star Gear or JMCK can get that squared away for you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[YVK]

Any recommendations for an AIWB holster for a smaller gun, Kahr PM9?

CCC Quick Cover works great.

[Up1911Fan]

so does the Uno.

[J_B]

Any recommendations for an AIWB holster for a smaller gun, Kahr PM9?

IF I had to carry my wife's PM9, I'd go with either AIWB holsters from PHLster or Liion Defense.

I like my PHLster skeleton for my Shield 9 and the Liion xKlip for a super minimal VG2 feel.

Next on list to try is a JM Custom for AIWB'n a G19 w/RMR & APL as I plan to have my 19 milled and set up for the RMR.

[Irelander]

Hey guys, I'm pretty new to the scene of appendix carry. I started out like most of you thinking it was the most stupid method of concealed carry. After stumbling upon pistol-training.com a while back I read all about Todd's revelation regarding appendix carry and my thoughts about it changed as well. I've been carrying concealed for many years as a civilian and could never find the right holster/gun combination to conceal well all the time. I am tall and thin framed so it's extra hard to hide a gun unless I wear an oversized sweatshirt all year round. Carrying at 4:30 was just a pain in the pooper. Forget bending over without flashing my gun. I pretty much decided that the only gun I could definitely conceal all the time was my Kahr P380 in pocket or ankle carry. But I always feel under gunned with only a .380. After reading a lot about appendix carry I recently started carrying my G19 or Sig 1911 CCO stuck in the front of my pants UNLOADED and just around the house to get an idea of what appendix carry was like. I must say that I was immediately impressed with level of concealment I got with only a T-shirt to cover the gun. No way could I get that level of concealment with a Glock previously. I had actually bought the 1911 because I thought I would never be able to conceal a G19 on my frame and the thinner 1911 might allow me to conceal a bigger gun. Now with the right holster I should definitely be able to conceal the Glock.

I am super apprehensive about carrying Condition 1 in appendix carry with the muzzle pointed at my manhood and FA. I consider myself very safe with firearms but nobody is perfect. I will be adopting Todds approach to holstering a pistol in appendix carry which I think is excellent. But I can see myself being very nervous while carrying in this method. I was wondering if anyone here has added a pad to their AIWB holster like the one Clusterfrack made, refer to this thread on Glocktalk.com:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1522970
He says that the pad provides several benefits:
1. Added comfort as it prevents the muzzle from digging in.
2. Added concealment as it pushes the grip tighter against your stomach.
3. Added safety as it angles the pistol such that the muzzle is not pointed at any body part.
Sounds like a good idea to me. Any one else have experience with this pad modification to an AIWB holster?

I should also be able to conceal the 1911 even better than the Glock but boy is it uncomfortable when bending over to do something like tie your shoes. That beavertail digs into my abdomen and it isn't very fun. Anyone else find 1911 appendix carry very uncomfortable at times? Any solution for this? I have no such issues with the Glock.

I'm looking at holsters now and trying to decide what to get. There are a lot of good options and I really appreciate reading about all of your experiences with different holsters. I was wondering if anyone has noticed a difference in comfort between holsters that have a straight edge at the muzzle and holsters that mold around the muzzle to create a rounded edge. An example of the straight edge design would be something like the Dale Fricke Archangel or Phlster Skeleton or the Haley Incog. An example of the molded muzzle design would be the JMC Appendix holster or the CCC Shaggy.

[YVK]

Muzzle pad / foam is a standard mod for me on the holsters that don't have it already.

[Adam]

I started with trying Spencer’s system of Velcro and foam wedges on holsters and found the foam I was using broke down over time and/or the wedge would come off the Velcro. Then I realized, once I knew where I wanted the wedge, the adjustment of the wedge wasn't required and at times was inconvenient. So my newest system is blue closed cell sleeping pad from Wal-Mart, athletic taped to the holster. The amount of wedge required depends greatly on 1) how high you carry the gun and 2) at what position you carry the gun/where the muzzle is resting. If it is in the crease of your leg and you want standoff, you need more wedge. If it is resting on your thigh more toward 2:00, you probably don’t need as much. I now look at a wedge and tuck feature kind of like I look at ride height and cant adjustment on a strong-side holster: it is pretty much a requirement for me.

[Irelander]

I have another question.

What is SOP for appendix carry when using the restroom? I was sitting on the can recently and wondered what I would do with my gun when my pants are around my ankles. Especially in a public restroom with open bottoms to the stalls.

I guess this goes for other methods of carry too.

[JMS]

Stalls, no wall urinals; the usual visible plumbing of a urinal is a handy item for somebody else to smash your head into...

http://www.recoilweb.com/public-potty-breaks-and-your-edc-28395.html

[Dropkick]

Stalls, no wall urinals; the usual visible plumbing of a urinal is a handy item for somebody else to smash your head into...

I dunno, if I had my choice between getting ambushed at a urinal verses in a stall, I think I'd pick the urinal. Hear me out. At either, I can use my off-hand to protect my head, or brace against impacting a hard surface. But, I'd rather be somewhere I have the ability to move, than be stuck in a 3x5 box with someone. But with anything, circumstances may not provide such choices. This is really getting into a topic for a seperate thread though...

[Mr_White]

I have another question.

What is SOP for appendix carry when using the restroom? I was sitting on the can recently and wondered what I would do with my gun when my pants are around my ankles. Especially in a public restroom with open bottoms to the stalls.

I guess this goes for other methods of carry too.

This way can work to keep gun in holster and holster attached to pants, and concealed, the whole time.

Loosen belt enough that pants can come down.

Control holstered gun and allow pants to drop to minimum height below the lowest point underwear reaches.

Lower underwear and fold over the top of pants/holstered gun/other sensitive belt mounted gear.

Lower underwear/pants/holstered gun, sit, finish, reverse process.

I'm sure there will be some individual variation in there somewhere.

Good luck. ;)

[23JAZ]

Alrighty then... .:rolleyes:

[JM Campbell]

Alrighty then... .:rolleyes:

Words of wisdom from OAK....do not dismiss grasshopper.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[justintime]

Hold it

Tactical adult diapers

[BoppaBear]

Excellent method OAK. I've never thought of the "Undie Fold-Over" (UFO).

I must say that I'm a bit surprised that it took 866 posts to get to potty training.

[JM Campbell]

Excellent method OAK. I've never thought of the "Undie Fold-Over" (UFO).

I must say that I'm a bit surprised that it took 866 posts to get to potty training.

Sometimes it just takes OAK's softer side to show the light. ;)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Irelander]

I figured I'd take some flak for asking the question but it was on my mind. I should be receiving my AIWB holster today so I'm sure I'll figure it out sooner or later.

Just seems to me that with strong side carry the holster is supported on the belt/pants even in pants down mode. With AIWB your holster rides right where your pants open or at least may be hanging on the open end of your belt. Seems like this might get tricky and I wasn't coming up with a good method to keep things concealed.

[s0nspark]

Just seems to me that with strong side carry the holster is supported on the belt/pants even in pants down mode. With AIWB your holster rides right where your pants open or at least may be hanging on the open end of your belt.

When I carry using a Wilderness belt I loop the tongue of the belt back over the holster and secure via the Velcro. This seems to hold the holster upright well enough as long as I hold it while lowering or raising my pants. I can usually hold the holster and button my pants up again without too much trouble.

[BoppaBear]

I figured I'd take some flak for asking the question but it was on my mind. I should be receiving my AIWB holster today so I'm sure I'll figure it out sooner or later.

Just seems to me that with strong side carry the holster is supported on the belt/pants even in pants down mode. With AIWB your holster rides right where your pants open or at least may be hanging on the open end of your belt. Seems like this might get tricky and I wasn't coming up with a good method to keep things concealed.

No flak here. That's a question many (including me) have probably wondered, but I don't recall it making it into a thread.

This forum is about sharing info...whether it's reloads, or unloading.

[TumblinDown]

This forum is about sharing info...whether it's reloads, or unloading.

Complete with photos (http://www.recoilweb.com/public-potty-breaks-and-your-edc-28395.html)... what works kinda depends on your rig.

[Irelander]

I started with trying Spencer’s system of Velcro and foam wedges on holsters and found the foam I was using broke down over time and/or the wedge would come off the Velcro. Then I realized, once I knew where I wanted the wedge, the adjustment of the wedge wasn't required and at times was inconvenient. So my newest system is blue closed cell sleeping pad from Wal-Mart, athletic taped to the holster. The amount of wedge required depends greatly on 1) how high you carry the gun and 2) at what position you carry the gun/where the muzzle is resting. If it is in the crease of your leg and you want standoff, you need more wedge. If it is resting on your thigh more toward 2:00, you probably don’t need as much. I now look at a wedge and tuck feature kind of like I look at ride height and cant adjustment on a strong-side holster: it is pretty much a requirement for me.

Thanks for the info. I will be picking up some blue sleeping pad foam from Walmart soon. Thanks for the tip.

[SAWBONES]

And just for balance' sake, I'll offer a negative viewpoint about AIWB as a carry mode, in favor of hip carry.

I notice that most people using AIWB carry are dressed very casually, that is, with an untucked sport shirt or loose T-shirt.

Many of us in professional work simply can't dress that way most of the time. In dress clothing (tucked-in fitted dress shirt, slacks), AIWB carry is simply out of the question. "Tuckable", you say? That's a joke with dress clothes in the non-permissive environment (NPE); there's an obvious bulge under the shirt and in the contour of the pants at the waist. A proper cover garment such as an open vest or unbuttoned sweater conceals a hip holster easily in dress clothes, but not an AIWB rig.

I also notice that almost everyone who endorses AIWB carry seems to be fairly thin.

Though I'm not fat, I find AIWB to be somewhat physically uncomfortable, due to the butt of the gun poking into my abdomen whenever I bend over, even with smaller guns like J-frames. We're made to bend forward at the waist, and having an object at your waist that interferes with that movement is inconvenient, sometimes significantly uncomfortable. Hip carry, OTOH, causes no problem with forward bending.

Lastly, I also find the draw to be less secure from AIWB than with hip carry, in the sense that the gun is less readily accessible, since with AIWB carry the stocks always seem to end up tilting a bit toward the strong side, and they also always seem to sit a bit too low for a proper instantaneous firing grip; this just doesn't happen with a quality holster when carrying behind the hip.

In contrast to a concern many have mentioned, I've never even given a thought to the "gun pointing at your genitals" issue, since a proper holster that covers the trigger guard, coupled with proper holstering technique, takes care of that.

Some of us older guys (curmudgeons! :p) who've been doing this for several decades may admittedly be reluctant to adopt new stuff that we consider to be just "gun fashion", but AIWB carry has more downsides than benefits for me, even though I've tried to give it a fair trial with different guns, both revolvers and semiautos. It doesn't work as well for all-day, every-day CCW, especially in dress clothing, as does behind the hip carry, whether OWB or IWB.

[MDS]

Wow, that was an excellent counterpoint, thank you! As time passes, it's easy to forget the time and effort it took to finesse my way past the obstacles you mention. If it weren't for the concealment problems I was having with strong side carry, I wouldn't have bothered. Now I can't imagine going back, even with tucked in dress shirts. Although I do miss my Milt Sparks holsters... :)

[YVK]

I also notice that almost everyone who endorses AIWB carry seems to be fairly thin.



with AIWB carry the stocks always seem to end up tilting a bit toward the strong side,

Not so sure on the first point.

On the second, I am going to hazard a guess and say that you appendix holsters had snap loops for an attachment?


I agree on professional clothing part. In regards to comfort on bending, that's true, but to me it is offset by superior comfort in other positions. For example, I spend a lot more time laying on a couch (ashamed) than bending during the course of a day.

[orionz06]

I wouldn't say I'm too terribly thin and I can pull off aiwb now and with some extra weight. Being smaller certainly affords more leniency in selection and placement though.

[SAWBONES]

...I am going to hazard a guess and say that you appendix holsters had snap loops for an attachment?


No, actually steel spring clips custom made by Matt Del Fatti, and Lou Alessi's APX (nylon 1.5" clip); on the latter, I mentioned to Lou (this was years ago) that it always seemed to end up tilted toward the strong side, and he said he'd never heard of that happening to anyone with the APX before, so it's probably rather uncommon.

[JAD]

I'm comfortable with AIWB when combined with a good holster and a thumb safety. It's nice for the one and a half day a week I carry with an untucked shirt. The rest of the time, it's blazers and 3:00 for this dude. Blazers are never really out of place If you're wearing pants, and i can't see the merit in sacrificing a couple seconds off my draw for the pleasure of tucking.

[cclaxton]

I was looking for a CZ75 IWB Holster and stumbled onto this web site and noticed they had their version of a lightweight Kydex holster in lots of different colors and a good list of supported guns, including CZ75, HK, Glock, S&W, Sig238, etc. I have not bought one yet, so this is not a recommendation, just a link for those of you who prefer Appendix. Cody
http://cdn3.volusion.com/gxznv.vwjyr/v/vspfiles/photos/DT-Appendix-Holster-2T.jpg?1397294116

http://www.daranichtactical.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DT-Appendix-Holster

[LittleLebowski]

No tuck, no loop, pass.


I was looking for a CZ75 IWB Holster and stumbled onto this web site and noticed they had their version of a lightweight Kydex holster in lots of different colors and a good list of supported guns, including CZ75, HK, Glock, S&W, Sig238, etc. I have not bought one yet, so this is not a recommendation, just a link for those of you who prefer Appendix. Cody
http://cdn3.volusion.com/gxznv.vwjyr/v/vspfiles/photos/DT-Appendix-Holster-2T.jpg?1397294116

http://www.daranichtactical.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DT-Appendix-Holster

[orionz06]

That's not an appendix holster, that's a normal IWB holster that they called an appendix holster.


If you needed one for your CZ I believe JM makes one that is not an IWB with a new name.

[LittleLebowski]

That's not an appendix holster, that's a normal IWB holster that they called an appendix holster.


Exactly.

[s0nspark]

If you needed one for your CZ I believe JM makes one that is not an IWB

He does - I ordered a standard JMCK AIWB for my CZ 75BD. .. No issues ;)

[Tony Mayer]

cclaxton, I do make them for the CZ 75 so let me know if I can help you. orionz06 and s0nspark, thanks for the plug.

[Aaron]

Just received my JM Custom AIWB holster for my M&P40. I ordered it after reading through this thread, so thanks guys for the heads up on it.

To say it's excellent would be an understatement. Life-changing in terms of how much better it is to carry the M&P in this holster would be more like it.

I did a quick review on it and the Propper Covert shirt (http://shekel.blogspot.com/2014/06/propper-holster-concealment.html) on my blog.

Simply a great holster.

[Tony Mayer]

Aaron, thank you for the business and the kudos.

[UncleTed]

Hi all,

I just finished reading all 89 pages in this thread. There is a lot of good info in here.

I have been carrying AIWB for almost a year, but haven't been able to find the perfect holster (which is a running theme in this thread). I have found a couple that are comfortable for t-shirt or un-tucked polo and conceal pretty well. My problem is at work I am required to wear business casual. i.e. kakhis and a button down or a polo. I haven't been able to find a AIWB holster that conceals well with that dress. I haven't seen this be addressed in the thread yet. I have been experimenting with the I.C.E. training modular belly band http://icestore.us/I-C-E-Modular-Belly-Band-Holster-from-Crossbreed.html.

I'd prefer a holster that has minimal or no exposed clips with my shirt tucked in because I don't want any goofy looks. For example, a Shaggy. Also, with having to tuck in my dress shirts the holster and belt can make it look like there is a small growth around my waistline.

I am open to any and all suggestions on holsters, belts, and techniques you all have tried that may/will help. I carry a Springfield XDS 9mm, and most days a extended mag in my pocket or in the I.C.E. modular belly band pockets.

Cheers,

UncleTed

[Adam]

Ted, I agree with your belly band-like holster assessment. I know some guys pull it off. I think it depends how non-permissive the environment is. If I had a bulge at my waistline at work, it would be noticed most likely. The one from ICE seems bulky to me for a belly band, but I haven't tried one so...

[Lon]

Hi all,

I just finished reading all 89 pages in this thread. There is a lot of good info in here.

I have been carrying AIWB for almost a year, but haven't been able to find the perfect holster (which is a running theme in this thread). I have found a couple that are comfortable for t-shirt or un-tucked polo and conceal pretty well. My problem is at work I am required to wear business casual. i.e. kakhis and a button down or a polo. I haven't been able to find a AIWB holster that conceals well with that dress. I haven't seen this be addressed in the thread yet. I have been experimenting with the I.C.E. training modular belly band http://icestore.us/I-C-E-Modular-Belly-Band-Holster-from-Crossbreed.html.

I'd prefer a holster that has minimal or no exposed clips with my shirt tucked in because I don't want any goofy looks. For example, a Shaggy. Also, with having to tuck in my dress shirts the holster and belt can make it look like there is a small growth around my waistline.

I am open to any and all suggestions on holsters, belts, and techniques you all have tried that may/will help. I carry a Springfield XDS 9mm, and most days a extended mag in my pocket or in the I.C.E. modular belly band pockets.

Cheers,

UncleTed

Have you looked at this:http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB-TUCKABLE.html

I have no first hand knowledge of that holster, but seems to meet your requirements.

[Up1911Fan]

Its a great holster. I have the original prototype I tested for Tony, works great when deep concealment is needed.

[Shellback]

Painful reminder. Pink gun, no holster or common sense, penis perforated.


http://youtu.be/_w2IiacbVGA

[SemperGumby27]

Carried the Dale Fricke The Archangel 2 - $95 <http://dalefrickeholsters.com/product/archangel-2-appendix-carry/> for a while before recently replacing my daily carry. Now I am looking again for a new AIWB holster and you helped me decide. Reading your post I remembered why I loved this holster, after getting over the sticker shock. It was comfortable, minimal and TUCKABLE! For once the tuckable actually worked as well. Good luck on your search and I hope this helps.

[Wendell]

Whatever happened to the .FIVE-O HOLSTER (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7_6-WPg3rc)?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7_6-WPg3rc

http://jjracaza.com/products/

I had such high hopes.

[MGW]

212 Tactical Designs seems to know something about them. Shows out of stock though.

[Shellback]

Whatever happened to the .FIVE-O HOLSTER (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7_6-WPg3rc)?

I had such high hopes.

It started out as the Frema Holster in 2003, I believe: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-33450.html

Frema is based in the Philippines. Looking at pictures of it, the idea seems pretty straight forward, it wouldn't be too difficult to replicate.

[JonnyVain]

Hi all,

I just finished reading all 89 pages in this thread. There is a lot of good info in here.

I have been carrying AIWB for almost a year, but haven't been able to find the perfect holster (which is a running theme in this thread). I have found a couple that are comfortable for t-shirt or un-tucked polo and conceal pretty well. My problem is at work I am required to wear business casual. i.e. kakhis and a button down or a polo. I haven't been able to find a AIWB holster that conceals well with that dress. I haven't seen this be addressed in the thread yet. I have been experimenting with the I.C.E. training modular belly band http://icestore.us/I-C-E-Modular-Belly-Band-Holster-from-Crossbreed.html.

I'd prefer a holster that has minimal or no exposed clips with my shirt tucked in because I don't want any goofy looks. For example, a Shaggy. Also, with having to tuck in my dress shirts the holster and belt can make it look like there is a small growth around my waistline.

I am open to any and all suggestions on holsters, belts, and techniques you all have tried that may/will help. I carry a Springfield XDS 9mm, and most days a extended mag in my pocket or in the I.C.E. modular belly band pockets.

Cheers,

UncleTed

I've found that holsters which use a wedge on the muzzle end create more bulk. This can vary depending on pant and pistol ride height, and pistol length.

Imo for slim aiwb you want no ejection port relief and the tuck wedge on the trigger guard side.

Jm custom is close, as well as NSR tactical (good alternative to the Incog with combo rig. See their Facebook page for more options than on their site). Nuoso concealment holsters are in constant development and his newest design is nice but relies more on the muzzle wedge, but I think he uses the correct angle rather than straight vertical tuck.

I ended up getting tired of looking so I designed and made my own. It's interesting and if you're handy i would recommend it as a fun hobby. Um... not sure what should be disclosed if anything. I have no desire to get into the business, but I'm trying to get someone to incorporate my design features into his aiwb design. If it falls through I'll come back and describe what I did and post pictures.

For the loop, have you seen the j-clips? You can probably buy one at knifekits.com and put on whatever holster you have.

Or buy a Shield...

Hi all,

I just finished reading all 89 pages in this thread. There is a lot of good info in here.

I have been carrying AIWB for almost a year, but haven't been able to find the perfect holster (which is a running theme in this thread). I have found a couple that are comfortable for t-shirt or un-tucked polo and conceal pretty well. My problem is at work I am required to wear business casual. i.e. kakhis and a button down or a polo. I haven't been able to find a AIWB holster that conceals well with that dress. I haven't seen this be addressed in the thread yet. I have been experimenting with the I.C.E. training modular belly band http://icestore.us/I-C-E-Modular-Belly-Band-Holster-from-Crossbreed.html.

I'd prefer a holster that has minimal or no exposed clips with my shirt tucked in because I don't want any goofy looks. For example, a Shaggy. Also, with having to tuck in my dress shirts the holster and belt can make it look like there is a small growth around my waistline.

I am open to any and all suggestions on holsters, belts, and techniques you all have tried that may/will help. I carry a Springfield XDS 9mm, and most days a extended mag in my pocket or in the I.C.E. modular belly band pockets.

Cheers,

UncleTed

[JonnyVain]

Uhh, let me take a moment to educate you. First let me introduce myself. You know how this forum has people held in high regard for their specific skill set and knowledge base? Well I'm that guy for the bathroom.

First, you never drop trow to the ankles. You hold them above the knee. Capice?

Second most carry belts come with extra room. Loosen the belt to get pants to your knees, then secure it there.

Don't pull your undies over your gear. They'll rip and you'll try to discreetly throw them away but will get caught because your mom wrote your name on the tag when she bought them for you. Then someone will pin them to the bulletin board for everyone to see your streaks.

And don't set your gun inside your underwear. See about the streaks above. Nobody wants to touch that. Now go wash your hands.

[MrMcCrackin]

Hello All,

I'm new here but not to CCW or training.

I just received a Garrity Triskel and after talking with Mark, I am very interested in AIWB for my P226R.

I know Garrity has the In-Victus, anyone have one and can provide insight on how it compares to the other AIWB offerings?

If it helps, I am 5'-10" at 166#

[JodyH]

I just received a Garrity Triskel and after talking with Mark, I am very interested in AIWB for my P226R.

I know Garrity has the In-Victus, anyone have one and can provide insight on how it compares to the other AIWB offerings?
What was your wait time for the Triskel?
I ask because I've never heard any complaints about Garrity's work and the Invictus has a great reputation as a solid AIWB but his wait times in the past were beyond ridiculous.

[YVK]

Hello All,

I'm new here but not to CCW or training.

I just received a Garrity Triskel and after talking with Mark, I am very interested in AIWB for my P226R.

I know Garrity has the In-Victus, anyone have one and can provide insight on how it compares to the other AIWB offerings?

If it helps, I am 5'-10" at 166#

Invictus is a great rig for those who prefer that type of a design, with mouthband and muzzle level wedges. I've had two and just sold one of mine only because my draw evolved and I now prefer not to have a sweatshield. That said, it conceals well, it has right amount of retention, and is very comfortable.

[MrMcCrackin]

What was your wait time for the Triskel?
I ask because I've never heard any complaints about Garrity's work and the Invictus has a great reputation as a solid AIWB but his wait times in the past were beyond ridiculous.

About a month if that, he is local here in Phx. I found out that he is a LEO by day and leather artist by night,which explains his wait times.

Here is the Triskel I just received


Super comfortable and top notch quality!



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-53bStjxd7xY/VG_NaIcXbsI/AAAAAAAAAmU/V-ha_HwNPFA/s800/20141121_163749.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kt1CJ62YLKs/VG_NW9Y2AYI/AAAAAAAAAmM/iVK_B825V90/s800/20141121_163830.jpg


For giggles I tried the Triskel at 1 o'clock all day yesterday, I really liked AIWB even with the cant of the Triskel, but it pushed the grip away from the body and printed, so I am thinking a designed specific AIWB is the way to go.

Had a long conversation with my nieghbor who is a LEO and AIWB a G26 off duty

[MrMcCrackin]

One more?

Do any of you guys AIWB with a tact light attached?

[Shellback]

Do any of you guys AIWB with a tact light attached?

I'm pretty sure LittleLebowski does and possibly a couple more guys on the forum as well.

[Default.mp3]

One more?

Do any of you guys AIWB with a tact light attached?

I AIWB with an X400/X400U. Never carried a pistol without a WML, honestly. I know a lot of people think the APL is the way to go, due to its smaller profile.

[Hizzie]

I AIWB with an X400/X400U. Never carried a pistol without a WML, honestly. I know a lot of people think the APL is the way to go, due to its smaller profile.


I've seen him do it. Despite being rather dainty he pulls it off in skinny jeans and s fitted shirt.

[Dagga Boy]

I've seen him do it. Despite being rather dainty he pulls it off in skinny jeans and s fitted shirt.

It is fricking weird to watch a 135 pound dude work with a P30L and an X400U at a true 12:30 carry.

I am currently running an Armordillo X-Fer with and X300 for my VP9 daily. Currently at about 2:30, but I have carried it more towards 1:30. It is the first IWB holster for a WML that I have ever liked.

[MrMcCrackin]

I AIWB with an X400/X400U. Never carried a pistol without a WML, honestly. I know a lot of people think the APL is the way to go, due to its smaller profile.

Which holster?

I am 5'-10" @ 170#'s and i just came back from the movies with the family and HATED not having my x300 attached.

[Default.mp3]

I've seen him do it. Despite being rather dainty he pulls it off in skinny jeans and s fitted shirt.

Slim fit jeans. Mate is the one with the skinny jeans.


It is fricking weird to watch a 135 pound dude work with a P30L and an X400U at a true 12:30 carry.

There will soon be an RMR, too. Only thing left after that completely turn it into a space gun is a magwell and suppressor.


Which holster?

I am 5'-10" @ 170#'s and i just came back from the movies with the family and HATED not having my x300 attached.

I just use a slightly modified RCS Phantom. I run the soft loops and have foam pads at the bottom to help keep the butt of the gun canted inward. I've no idea how it compares to anything else, because I've never used a dedicated appendix holster before, but I'm comfortable enough in it to carry it on 10 hour drives, can tie my shoes in it, etc.

[Dagga Boy]

Slim fit jeans. Mate is the one with the skinny jeans.



There will soon be an RMR, too. Only thing left after that completely turn it into a space gun is a magwell and suppressor.



I just use a slightly modified RCS Phantom. I run the soft loops and have foam pads at the bottom to help keep the butt of the gun canted inward. I've no idea how it compares to anything else, because I've never used a dedicated appendix holster before, but I'm comfortable enough in it to carry it on 10 hour drives, can tie my shoes in it, etc.

Don't take this wrong.....you may want to check with a doctor, I believe you are missing a pelvis...;-).

[MrMcCrackin]

Any of you guys using this rig?

http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html


Also - what are you using for an extra mag carrier?

[BaiHu]

Lotta folks are. I don't have one, but if you type in JM custom in the search bar you'll find tons of info. Same on the mag carrier.

If you wait a little bit I'm sure someone will give you a direct answer though.

[David S.]

Uh.... maybe... (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3597-JM-Custom-Kydex-AIWB-holster-review) ;)

The JMCK is one of the most popular AIWB holsters on this forum.

[Kyle Reese]

Any of you guys using this rig?

http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html


Also - what are you using for an extra mag carrier?
I've got several and Tony Mayer knows how to build a great holster. I use the single mag pouch (also offered on their website).

You cannot go wrong with JM Custom Kydex.

[JDM]

Any of you guys using this rig?

http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html


Also - what are you using for an extra mag carrier?

A ton of us, myself included, use that holster in various configurations.

I use one of his single mag pouches for my reload.

[Up1911Fan]

I've got several of them, Tony's stuff is top notch.

[MrMcCrackin]

Thanks guys

I know after reading 90 pages that most use the shaggy and archangel among a few leather offerings

I am just trying to figure out where to start before I keep ordering holsters

[Up1911Fan]

Thanks guys

I know after reading 90 pages that most use the shaggy and archangel among a few leather offerings

I am just trying to figure out where to start before I keep ordering holsters

I would skip those two and go with the JM. If you want leather, JRC or 5Shot.

[JAD]

It's a little hard because this thread started before many of the current crop of holsters evolved , so if you just read through you'll come up with kind of an odd count.

The JMCK, JRC, and SME have become dominant as far as I can tell. No slight to the others on the forum.

[ToddG]

Count me amongst the JMCK crowd when it comes to kydex. I also really like the original CCC Shaggy. I prefer CCC's mag pouches to the JMCK, but haven't tried one of the JMCK AIWB SPMP pouches yet.

[ken grant]

Been trying AIWB now for awhile, several different holsters but none so far have suited me.
On a whim, I decided to try a MIC trigger guard and it was the one for me.
I then combined the MIC with a Clip Draw to try but didn't like it as the pistol was setting too low to get a fast grip. I tied the lanyard for the MIC shorter, removed the Clip Draw and hit the sweet spot for me.

I then tried a Vanguard 2 and with the belt loop but decided the lanyard alone tied shorter suited me better just as it did on the MIC.
The only problem with the Vanguard is the lower point tends to poke my leg in certain positions , so I may cut it off.

[ToddG]

The only problem with the Vanguard is the lower point tends to poke my leg in certain positions , so I may cut it off.

AIWB is awesome and all but I wouldn't recommend cutting your leg off for it...

(Todd eats, shoots, and leaves)

[JodyH]

AIWB is awesome and all but I wouldn't recommend cutting your leg off for it...

(Todd eats, shoots, and leaves)


http://youtu.be/WiGUYMqUHOU

[Wondering Beard]

CCC Shaggy and JMCK AIWB for me.

The JMCK AIWB SPMP pouches won't work for me because that space is already taken up by a Joe Watson HiTS. I'd like to find a "pancake" kydex mag pouch (like JM, DSG and Raven offer) but that rides higher (i.e. the bottom of the mag pouch is about level with the bottom of the belt).

[Tony Mayer]

CCC Shaggy and JMCK AIWB for me.

The JMCK AIWB SPMP pouches won't work for me because that space is already taken up by a Joe Watson HiTS. I'd like to find a "pancake" kydex mag pouch (like JM, DSG and Raven offer) but that rides higher (i.e. the bottom of the mag pouch is about level with the bottom of the belt).

Wondering Beard, that is no problem, just let me know if/when you order you want the bottom of the mag even with the belt. Thanks

Tony w/ JM Custom Kydex

[Wondering Beard]

PM sent

[s0nspark]

Any of you guys using this rig?

http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html


Also - what are you using for an extra mag carrier?

I have had good results with Kytex mag carriers... they are inexpensive and durable.

[MrMcCrackin]

Wondering Beard, that is no problem, just let me know if/when you order you want the bottom of the mag even with the belt. Thanks

Tony w/ JM Custom Kydex

Tony,

Can you squeeze a SIG P226 with an x300 into your AIWB holster?

PM inbound

[JCS]

Can anyone that has a shaggy for a Glock 19 tell me if they went with a 19 or 17 holster. I know with other manufacturers most guys prefer the extra length. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[softspoken]

Can anyone that has a shaggy for a Glock 19 tell me if they went with a 19 or 17 holster. I know with other manufacturers most guys prefer the extra length. Any input would be greatly appreciated!
I ended up purchasing both holsters, but I use the 19 most of the time. I find the 17 a little bit too long for comfort when sitting down. For reference, I'm about 5'-7" and 135lbs.

[YVK]

Can anyone that has a shaggy for a Glock 19 tell me if they went with a 19 or 17 holster. I know with other manufacturers most guys prefer the extra length. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Guns with 4 or almost 4 inch barrels are quite stable in their respective holsters without additional length. I have two different plastic, including G19/Shaggy combo, and two different metal pistols of this size, and I never needed a longer holster.

[orionz06]

Guns with 4 or almost 4 inch barrels are quite stable in their respective holsters without additional length. I have two different plastic, including G19/Shaggy combo, and two different metal pistols of this size, and I never needed a longer holster.

This. Extending the smaller autos to G19 length solves problems with rollout on most folks.


To the G19-G17 question... I'd err to the G17 side of your build is tolerable. Unfortunately it may be a guessing game first go round.

[imp1295]

FF,
You've got mail...

[Up1911Fan]

I prefer 17 length.

[Byron]

Can anyone that has a shaggy for a Glock 19 tell me if they went with a 19 or 17 holster. I know with other manufacturers most guys prefer the extra length. Any input would be greatly appreciated!
I had a Shaggy in both G17 and G19 size. Even for carrying the G19, I preferred the G17 holster, so I ended up giving the G19 holster to a buddy.

I've even gone to the extreme of carrying a G19 in two different AIWB holsters made for the G34 (neither of them were a Shaggy). I wasn't just trying for the hell of it, but because I've long been on the fence about buying a G34 and wanted to see what a holster for one would feel like AIWB.

I've ultimately come to the conclusion that a G17 holster is the best option for me. Even setting aside the fact that I have SIRTs and a G17, I still prefer a G17 holster for carrying a G19.

[JCS]

Awesome, thanks for all the replies. I'm about 6'3" and 190 pounds. It is kinda a guessing game. I'm sure I'll be good with either one, but I'd like to hopefully get the best one the first try lol

[LittleLebowski]

Awesome, thanks for all the replies. I'm about 6'3" and 190 pounds. It is kinda a guessing game. I'm sure I'll be good with either one, but I'd like to hopefully get the best one the first try lol

I'm 5'11" and 200lbs. I love my G19 in a G19 Shaggy.

[EVP]

Byron what was your findings with the G34? I have thought about that option as well.

[Shellback]

After trying both lengths I'm a G17 holster for my G19 kinda guy. I'm 6' 3" @ 200 lbs.

[Byron]

Byron what was your findings with the G34? I have thought about that option as well.
In my experience, the extra length of the G34 holster made my choice of pants all the more important. In low-riding pants, there was a more noticeable difference, with the G34 holsters being more likely to poke at me. In higher riding pants, the difference was negligible. Once I dialed in ride-height (and I mean that to encompass all aspects: pants, belt, and holster config), I could see how guys like Mr_White can easily AIWB carry a G34.

The experiment also made me rethink my definition of "stable" in a holster. Is a "stable" holster one that really hugs to your body and moves with you, or is a "stable" holster one that really hugs to your belt and moves with it? That might be a meaningless distinction to some people, but I bring it up because the longer holsters move more with my body (if that description makes any sense). It simply had to do with how much leverage my body could exert on the holster.

[Cecil Burch]

The experiment also made me rethink my definition of "stable" in a holster. Is a "stable" holster one that really hugs to your body and moves with you, or is a "stable" holster one that really hugs to your belt and moves with it? That might be a meaningless distinction to some people, but I bring it up because the longer holsters move more with my body (if that description makes any sense). It simply had to do with how much leverage my body could exert on the holster.

I had not thought about that. Hmm. I need to look at that this weekend while wearing different clothes.

[Clusterfrack]

I have found the same thing as Byron. My AIWB rig works best when I use a belt that isn't too stiff. My Ares Ranger belt stays in the drawer, and I wear a Wilderness Frequent Flier because it lets the holster move with my body.

[orionz06]

Volund Gearworks makes a thin belt I like. Works very well.

http://www.volundgearworks.com/belts/atlas-ghook-slim.php

[Talionis]

I have found the same thing as Byron. My AIWB rig works best when I use a belt that isn't too stiff. My Ares Ranger belt stays in the drawer, and I wear a Wilderness Frequent Flier because it lets the holster move with my body.

Yup, the Ranger belt is neat and all, but it's too stiff in my experience as well. I like a little more give for AIWB. My personal favorite is the Safariland 030 inner belt that I pair up with my ELS outer belt for USPSA. I believe WIILSHOOT mentioned that in the past. It's perfect stiffness, extremely low profile, easy on and off, and makes dryfire sessions super convenient.

[orionz06]

Yup, the Ranger belt is neat and all, but it's too stiff in my experience as well. I like a little more give for AIWB. My personal favorite is the Safariland 030 inner belt that I pair up with my ELS outer belt for USPSA. I believe WIILSHOOT mentioned that in the past. It's perfect stiffness, extremely low profile, easy on and off, and makes dryfire sessions super convenient.

I think the super rigid belt thing is a carryover from when the typical holster was a softer leather holster that relied on the belt to keep it stable. Some holsters on some people still need a little extra support, some don't.

[23JAZ]

So for someone looking to upgrade his EDC belt with a cobra buckle for AIWB carry with a JMCK AIWB holster would you recommend Volund or is that going to be too stiff? I'm 5'10" 175# G19, G17 length holster.

[JCS]

I just bought a wilderness instructor belt. I've heard fantastic things about them.

[Talionis]

I think the super rigid belt thing is a carryover from when the typical holster was a softer leather holster that relied on the belt to keep it stable. Some holsters on some people still need a little extra support, some don't.

Agreed. I've been experimenting with 3:30 carry of a full size 1911 in a Milt Sparks VMII, and while that's not exactly soft leather, it does benefit much more from a stiff belt than anything I've carried AIWB.

[JonnyVain]

This is why i switched back to leather. It breaks in and conforms to the body. Detrimental for side carry, beneficial for aiwb. The bottom of nylon belts dig into the holster while the top barely touches. Creates an effect of higher ride height for tuck without the benefits of a more exposed grip. I LOVE my 5 stitch 1.75" Wilderness but switched to an AG custom bull hide for appendix.

[Ryno785]

Hey guys, brand new here. I joined last week after becoming interested in AIWB carry and seeing how many big names have converted to this form of carry. A link to this thread was shared with me after I started a thread about appendix carry at xdtalk.com. I didn't see a new member forum so I figured I'd say hello here.

I've be carrying strong side in a hybrid holster for the last 4 years or so. I am still very interested in giving AIWB a go but it seems like any of the holsters that are held in high regards here are pretty expensive and have huge lead times. I'm pretty hesitant to spend $75 plus on a holster that I am not sure if I am going to like. I am 5' 9"/175 lbs....no 6 pack but I don't think I have too much excess in my mid region to carry appendix based off some of the photos I have seen of other members. I just looked through classifieds looking for a Shaggy or a JM Customs (G19) and they don't seem to last long! lol

Anyways, looking forward to spending some more time here as it is very apparent that there is a ton knowledge on this board.

[ToddG]

I just looked through classifieds looking for a Shaggy or a JM Customs (G19) and they don't seem to last long!

That might make it a little more palatable to take a risk on one of them. If it doesn't work for you, they're very easy to resell at little to no loss.

[ken grant]

Spend about $20 and just try a Trigger Guard Holster
Tried several different AIWB holsters but none suited me. I then decided to try a trigger guard type and that hit the sweet spot for me.

I have both a MIC and a Vanguard 2. I like the MIC better.
The Vanguard tends to dig into my leg
(I may cut off the end on the Vanguard) and I don't like the loop. I use the lanyard.

On both I have the lanyard tied shorter to keep the pistol from riding too low and the holster comes off as soon as the pistol clears my belt.

The loop on the Vanguard holds the pistol in place and won't let it move but you need to unsnap it, remove and then place back on pistol before putting back in pants and re-snap.

The lanyard lets the pistol float with a small amount of movement and to me that is more comfortable as I move, sit or drive.

With the shorter cord my pistol is already pointed away from my body as I draw.
I clear the belt in a forward direction, the cord pulls the holster off as soon as I go forward a very little way.
Another thing I like is the trigger is covered by replacing the trigger guard before you stick the pistol back in your belt.

It took several tries before I settled on the cord length.

I also tried both with a Clip Draw but decided the Clip Draw was not needed and shirt couldn't be tucked using it.
My waist size is 38.
I wear size 38 pants/jeans or shorts and they work well with AIWB and the trigger guard. Don't need a bigger size.

[CSquared]

Hi everybody. I'm a new member to this site but I've followed it (roughly) since 2013. Semi-long post but thanks for the opportunity! I love this site! Todd's original post is what helped me start carrying appendix in 2013. I did the typical hybrid style for a few months when I first started carrying but I didn't dig it at all. Comfort wise, it was great. But if I wanted to do anything other than...oh....stand or wear a jacket or XXL shirt (I'm 6'0, 185-ish) it would print and I would be self conscious about it. Then I'm on YouTube like anybody else over thinking and saw somebody doing appendix, did some research, which led me to here. Todd's OP was what I needed to read. My first carry gun was a Sig P250 and I tried appendix carry with that in a rig made by a guy who oddly, no longer sells holsters, or if he does he completely changed his brand, website, the whole 9 yards. Problem with the holster was it was belt loop, nothing to keep the butt tucked in and made the gun flop over. Seems to be a common problem. So I did more research and came across K Rounds appendix holster which up until two weeks ago, I carried exclusively from like October 2013 with a Glock 22. Fantastic piece of kydex but the genius part is the strut and belt loop combination. Without going into a ton of detail, it basically allows you to unholster the holster from your pants while still mounted, reholster the gun, then stuff it back in. There's also enough play in it so that when you sit down it doesn't jab you in the uncomfortable places, it just sort of moves with you. The strut is angled to tuck the butt of the gun in and the soft loop used pull-the-dot snaps. Very well made, very nice holster.

Fast forward to about two weeks ago, I get G-Code's INCOG in the mail because I eventually want to start carrying that extra mag up front and just be able to grab it all at once and go. I've only seen the INCOG mentioned on here maybe twice but it could have been more, I just don't remember at the moment. Since most of this thread has been about holsters I thought I'd give my initial review of carrying and playing with this holster:

The Good: Stupidly well made, positive retention with adjustable retention. You get a positive snap when the holster locks in. The fuzz, while I was initially stupified by it because I thought it was pretty dumb, is actually pretty comfortable. A lot of people on reviews of the holster have complained that it keeps the holster put, which isn't a bad thing, but like me, want a little bit of play when you sit, bend etc. Well that can be remedied by removing the "top side" belt clip and only having the one under the trigger guard. Found this out yesterday. <shrugs> So in a slight re-explanation, what actually keeps the holster in place...are BOTH clips. I feel that the second clip will only be really useful once a mag caddy is installed, which I don't have yet. It is ride height adjustable and IF you wanted to go that route, cant adjustable for wearing it in other positions other than appendix. However, it is 98% an appendix holster, especially when you add the mag caddy. The clips are TOUGH and angled much like the K Rounds strut to tuck the butt of the gun in. The neat thing I noticed is that they have sort of a positive "lock" as well. On one of my super thick gun belts, it's almost too difficult to pull the clip over it but once it gets over it, you get a snap and it's on. I'm weary of clips personally but my due diligence won't let me do anything until I really try it out. I do have two extra K Rounds strut/loop combos I can make work if need be.

The Bad: Shortly, if you're not going to add the mag caddy, it's having that 2nd clip. It locks the holster in place with no give. Almost at all. If it moves, it's so little I can't tell. A BUNCH of reviews I've seen have had people on forums either take the second clip off and wear it with one and baddabing or even go so far as to cut that tab off and that's the end of ever having a mag caddy and second clip. Another bad for others, but not for me, not yet anyway...is the open bottom sight channel. Some people don't care (me) and some people hate it and think it's the devil and call on a full exorcism. Whatever. Proper steel sights shouldn't be a problem. I am not sure of any other short comings as of yet, I'm not saying there aren't any but keep in mind I carried the K Rounds for a little over a year and have had an INCOG for like, two weeks tops and am still tweaking it. Oh, and customer service. I had an XST holster from them back before I even had a CHL in 2012, awesome customer service then. When I ordered the INCOG, awful customer service. I ordered two, one for an XD45 and one for a Glock, got rid of the XD a week after the order, sent an email, no response. Called, didn't get a person. Called again two days later, didn't get a person. Called a third time two days after the last call, didn't get a person, left a message, never received a call back. Got ONE email notification four weeks after the original order saying it's about to ship and received BOTH the XD and Glock holsters 4 days later. Take into account it's an average of four week wait time as well. No CS to speak of to me, means if I'm not in love with this holster in a month, I'm going back to K Rounds, after....

The Interesting: G-Code seems to have noticed the tweaking done by people with that second clip and have now introduced their INCOG Eclipse. It is a purpose built, one clip, never going to have a mag caddy INCOG. A different change they've made is with the machined mounting hardware. On the original INCOG, it was just a spacer style but on the new one, it arcs over to the very middle of the holster, supposedly the "natural center-line" of the gun according to G-Code. Not many reviews out yet but two of them hate the new "super mojo" as G-Code calls it as they say it's bulkier and doesn't really add to carry. Both moved the clip over to the "original" spot. One guy had an extra original piece of hardware, the other made his own. I have since ordered an Eclipse just to see what the fuss is about, because I like checking out new gear mostly. It arrived while I was typing this so I will check it this week. Upon initial reactions, it pretty much solves the double clip issue for the original INCOG.

Overall, the K Rounds is the optimal holster for me in my opinion. I don't have a photo of mine currently because my dad has it as he has nothing to cover his Glock's trigger guard while being stored. The photo with the firearm shows my INCOG sans the "top side" clip and the struts from K Rounds and the second is my just arrived INCOG Eclipse.

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/topherloaf/DSC_0492_zpsdf7b2a51.jpg (http://s894.photobucket.com/user/topherloaf/media/DSC_0492_zpsdf7b2a51.jpg.html)


http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/topherloaf/20150207_182946_zps920b1197.jpg (http://s894.photobucket.com/user/topherloaf/media/20150207_182946_zps920b1197.jpg.html)

[gocubs6]

What do you all think of the Vanguard 2? Figured I'd give it a whirl, but seems a bit pricey @$40 for what it is.

[LittleLebowski]

What do you all think of the Vanguard 2? Figured I'd give it a whirl, but seems a bit pricey @$40 for what it is.

It's not a savings over say a $75 or more purpose built AIWB holster. I say that with the caveat that I assume you plan to actually train with your carry holster and prefer comfort over convenience of attachment.

[MGW]

What do you all think of the Vanguard 2? Figured I'd give it a whirl, but seems a bit pricey @$40 for what it is.

I use one with a 19 a lot and like it. It's the easiest on/off holster I have and is very low profile. It's very comfortable for me but I can see how it might allow the muzzle to dig in on some people.

It's a PITA to train with but there is virtually no chance of an ND when using one. I've owned several different higher end and not so high end appendix holsters and it's the one I currently use most often. It's especially handy if I know I'm going to have to disarm and rearm multiple times during the day.

[gocubs6]

I've had JM Custom, Shaggy, Cane & Derby, Phlster, etc. JM Custom was the best for me of all of those. However, I decided to stick w/ Glocks and I just have trouble hiding that darn G19 for some reason. Other guns aren't quite as difficult. The grip just juts out for some reason on it. M&P hid pretty darn well. So, before going all in on a JM again, which are great, I thought I might give the non bulk world of the vanguard 2 a try. I can always buy a $35 holster from bladetech for training.

Do you find it holds close to the body rather well? I'm concerned that although there is no bulk, the grip won't tuck against the body very much.

[ken grant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI_9dFycZBA&feature=youtu.be

Luv a MIC , like a Vanguard 11 but thinking about trying the above.

[gocubs6]

Interesting concept....can't quite tell how it works from the vid

[ssb]

I've had JM Custom, Shaggy, Cane & Derby, Phlster, etc. JM Custom was the best for me of all of those. However, I decided to stick w/ Glocks and I just have trouble hiding that darn G19 for some reason. Other guns aren't quite as difficult. The grip just juts out for some reason on it. M&P hid pretty darn well. So, before going all in on a JM again, which are great, I thought I might give the non bulk world of the vanguard 2 a try. I can always buy a $35 holster from bladetech for training.

Do you find it holds close to the body rather well? I'm concerned that although there is no bulk, the grip won't tuck against the body very much.

I carried a G19 in one for about a year. It was the first holster I bought -- I went straight into AIWB, which probably runs against common sense for a guy who was new to CCW and handguns in general.

The VG2 was a great learning experience WRT what I needed out of an AIWB holster. The strut thingy kept the grip from flopping outward in my experience, but it's no comparison to, say, JMCK's grip tuck feature. Having said that, I had few issues concealing it under a fairly tight-fitting t-shirt. For best results, however, a lower ride is better given the lack of a true grip tuck feature.

[Irelander]

I have tried a couple of AIWB holsters with my G19 and I always seem to get several hot spots that cause pain in my abdomen. I am 6'0", 180lb and athletic. It seems that if the side of the holster facing my body is highly molded to the gun then I can feel every high spot on the holster and it makes it uncomfortable for me. I also find that the holster prints more than the gun does. By the end of the day I am almost sick and can't wait to get my gun off. I have tried to use a foam wedge to pad the muzzle as I get the most discomfort from the muzzle digging into my guts but even the pad becomes uncomfortable after a while. Maybe I am using the wrong kind of foam. I have toyed with the idea of designing a foam wedge with a kydex layer to keep it rigid to spread the pressure of the muzzle over a larger area to lessen the hot spot. I really want to like AIWB as I find 4:00 carry to be less than optimal in an NPE mostly because of bending over and other movements that tend to maximize printing with that mode of carry. I'd like to try an SME since so many people have experienced a high level of comfort but from the pictures it looks like a lot there is a lot of bulk between the gun and belt that would cause me issues with the holster printing more than the gun as noted above. Any tips or recommendations would be appreciated.

I recently purchased a Walther PPS and have a DSG minimalist AIWB holster on order. I am hoping that a thinner gun will help me out.

[MGW]

I have tried a couple of AIWB holsters with my G19 and I always seem to get several hot spots that cause pain in my abdomen. I am 6'0", 180lb and athletic. It seems that if the side of the holster facing my body is highly molded to the gun then I can feel every high spot on the holster and it makes it uncomfortable for me. I also find that the holster prints more than the gun does. By the end of the day I am almost sick and can't wait to get my gun off. I have tried to use a foam wedge to pad the muzzle as I get the most discomfort from the muzzle digging into my guts but even the pad becomes uncomfortable after a while. Maybe I am using the wrong kind of foam. I have toyed with the idea of designing a foam wedge with a kydex layer to keep it rigid to spread the pressure of the muzzle over a larger area to lessen the hot spot. I really want to like AIWB as I find 4:00 carry to be less than optimal in an NPE mostly because of bending over and other movements that tend to maximize printing with that mode of carry. I'd like to try an SME since so many people have experienced a high level of comfort but from the pictures it looks like a lot there is a lot of bulk between the gun and belt that would cause me issues with the holster printing more than the gun as noted above. Any tips or recommendations would be appreciated.

I recently purchased a Walther PPS and have a DSG minimalist AIWB holster on order. I am hoping that a thinner gun will help me out.

I had similar problems. I finally have settled on a Glock 34 length George holster for carrying a 19. The extra length made all the difference for me. I was hesitant but Tony at JM told me to give it a shot. I'm glad he did.

I tried shorter and thinner pistols but had the same discomfort issues. The muzzle end of the holster would always find a way to dig in and be uncomfortable after just a few hours.

Tony is also offering a thin foam comfort layer on the back of his holsters. That might be worth trying too.

[Clusterfrack]

I made a cloth pillow that solves this problem for me. It also keeps the muzzle pointed away from vital components.

http://img-2013.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/17/uga7arun.jpg

[Artemas]

That is some serious stuffing;)

After playing with AIWB since last October, I like the greater range of motion I can get and not have to worry about printing, but I keep running into two issues. The top corner of the slide on my G19 makes a very obvious point on anything less than a heavy coat. The other issues I have is getting a strong initial grip, I keep getting the "H grip" from hell.

[Irelander]

I made a cloth pillow that solves this problem for me. It also keeps the muzzle pointed away from vital components.

http://img-2013.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/17/uga7arun.jpg

Is that filled with just pillow stuffing?

[JM Campbell]

Irelander if you need one I might have one Justintime's gilfriend made, I don't use it so your welcome to it if you could use it.

[Irelander]

Irelander if you need one I might have one Justintime's gilfriend made, I don't use it so your welcome to it if you could use it.

PM inbound

[Clusterfrack]

Is that filled with just pillow stuffing?

Yup. It's stuffed with polyfill from a pillow the dogs destroyed. It is washable too.

[ssb]

I made a cloth pillow that solves this problem for me. It also keeps the muzzle pointed away from vital components.

http://img-2013.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/17/uga7arun.jpg

Would you be able to share details as to how you made that? Maybe a pattern? It's a cool idea, and I'd like to give it a shot.

[Clusterfrack]

Would you be able to share details as to how you made that? Maybe a pattern? It's a cool idea, and I'd like to give it a shot.

I'm happy to share the details, but a pattern isn't in my skill set. I can use a sewing machine, but it took quite a bit of trial and error to make that pillow, and I've been putting off sewing up another one for my newest JMCK.

I used NiCo ripstop fabric and sewed on a strip of 2" hook velcro first thing. I found that cutting the hook velcro in half lengthwise, and leaving a small gap in between allowed the pillow to conform to the holster better.

Then I made a wedge shape with the velcro on the inside, but leaving the top open.

Next, I turned the thing right side out and stuffed it with the polyfill.

Finally, I sewed the top closed, and put a vertical stitch down the top part (see image below) to keep the filling down toward the end of the pillow.

I'm guessing a real seamstress could make this pretty easily, but it took me hours to get it right.

Here are a couple more images:

The good pad:
http://img-2013.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/17/a4edasa5.jpg

The other ones that didn't work as well:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/11/7yde5ude.jpg

[JodyH]

Garrity In-Victus for my VP9.
Delivery time was under 3 months (ordered in mid November, delivered late January) and it was even delivered two weeks ahead of the advertised delivery timeframe.
I know he had some issues with deliveries a while back, but it looks like he's now back on track and fulfilling orders in a timely manner.
This is the only holster with tuck and wedge that doesn't poke and prod me all day.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p82/JodyHuggins/IMG_20150227_150809_zpskmg3kwes.jpg

[ssb]

I'm happy to share the details, but a pattern isn't in my skill set. I can use a sewing machine, but it took quite a bit of trial and error to make that pillow, and I've been putting off sewing up another one for my newest JMCK.

I used NiCo ripstop fabric and sewed on a strip of 2" hook velcro first thing. I found that cutting the hook velcro in half lengthwise, and leaving a small gap in between allowed the pillow to conform to the holster better.

Then I made a wedge shape with the velcro on the inside, but leaving the top open.

Next, I turned the thing right side out and stuffed it with the polyfill.

Finally, I sewed the top closed, and put a vertical stitch down the top part (see image below) to keep the filling down toward the end of the pillow.

I'm guessing a real seamstress could make this pretty easily, but it took me hours to get it right.

Here are a couple more images:

Thanks, dude. I'll give it a shot.

[Clusterfrack]

Glad to help. Please post your results.

My wife just asked what I was doing. I answered, "I'm helping a guy on the internet make a pillow for his crotch."

[okiwen]

Glad to help. Please post your results.

My wife just asked what I was doing. I answered, "I'm helping a guy on the internet make a pillow for his crotch."

Dude, that was just classic. I lol'd. I never lol.

[BobLoblaw]

...This is the only holster with tuck and wedge that doesn't poke and prod me all day...
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/05/3ae2af5d0422a4fde3176ac796e1fd2e.jpg
Any chance we can get a pic of it in use?

[YVK]

Garrity In-Victus for my VP9.
Delivery time was under 3 months (ordered in mid November, delivered late January) and it was even delivered two weeks ahead of the advertised delivery timeframe.
I know he had some issues with deliveries a while back, but it looks like he's now back on track and fulfilling orders in a timely manner.
This is the only holster with tuck and wedge that doesn't poke and prod me all day.


It is a good rig. I sold both of mine for a couple of reasons, the usual personal idiosyncrasies, but it is a damn good holster.

[Guinnessman]

Garrity In-Victus for my VP9.
Delivery time was under 3 months (ordered in mid November, delivered late January) and it was even delivered two weeks ahead of the advertised delivery timeframe.
I know he had some issues with deliveries a while back, but it looks like he's now back on track and fulfilling orders in a timely manner.
This is the only holster with tuck and wedge that doesn't poke and prod me all day.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p82/JodyHuggins/IMG_20150227_150809_zpskmg3kwes.jpg

Jody,

Are you able to see how a P30 fits into your Garrity? My P30 fits great into my JMCK AIWB built for a VP9 and I was curious how the P30 would fit. I would like a nice leather rig for both my P30 and VP9.

[JodyH]

I only have a P30L, I sold my P30 a while back. I do not think a P30 would work in the VP9 holster, the VP9 pretty much clicks into place like kydex because of the molding.

[Clay]

I'm looking for a AIWB holster for a Beretta 92FS, and really don't want to wait two or three months to get one if I don't have to. Any recommendations?

If I have to wait, I'm probably going with a Shaggy or JM. Any preference, for those using larger/heavier pistols?

[xmanhockey7]

I'm looking for a AIWB holster for a Beretta 92FS, and really don't want to wait two or three months to get one if I don't have to. Any recommendations?

If I have to wait, I'm probably going with a Shaggy or JM. Any preference, for those using larger/heavier pistols?

I don't think you can go wrong with either. I have yet to try the Shaggy, but I LOVE all my JM holsters. They're worth the wait.

[imp1295]

Agree with this. I too tried the "quick and dirty" route. Trying to find a readily available holster. BLUF: holster makers without a wait period don't have a wait period for a reason. Guys like Tony, Rich etc have a wait period b/c of their quality.

However, if I were you I would troll around here, m4carbine and ar15. You'd be surprised how short of a time it will take to see some of the top quality holsters for sale on the second hand market. Especially for the more common platforms.

[Clay]

Agree with this. I too tried the "quick and dirty" route. Trying to find a readily available holster. BLUF: holster makers without a wait period don't have a wait period for a reason. Guys like Tony, Rich etc have a wait period b/c of their quality.

However, if I were you I would troll around here, m4carbine and ar15. You'd be surprised how short of a time it will take to see some of the top quality holsters for sale on the second hand market. Especially for the more common platforms.

Very true on both accounts....thanks.

[walker2713]

I'm looking for a AIWB holster for a Beretta 92FS, and really don't want to wait two or three months to get one if I don't have to. Any recommendations?

If I have to wait, I'm probably going with a Shaggy or JM. Any preference, for those using larger/heavier pistols?

Not cheap but top quality and normally 7+ days delivery....Garrett Industries. I love their Silent Thunder aiwb holsters....

http://www.giholsters.com/

[Clay]

Took advantage of the sale at CCC and ordered two Shaggy's - one for a Glock and one for a Beretta 92FS. Gonna give AIWB one last try.

[ssb]

I bought the Raven lego holster thing.

Not a whole lot of info on the internets about the holster after the initial SHOT Show buzz. However, a couple of people here noted that the clips were either too high or too low, with no in-between. Perhaps I should have read their posts before ordering, but oh well. Here are a couple of comparison pictures that'll hopefully illustrate the ride height. This is with the high-ride setup, as I think the low-ride may be too low for me. Unfortunately, I only have the one Glock at the moment so I can't do side-by-side comparisons.

Eidolon:

http://s11.postimg.org/pfg1udiaq/IMG_0387.jpg

JMCK AIWB (adjustable ride -- set to low ride):

http://s11.postimg.org/lydzrej8i/IMG_0390.jpg

RCS Vanguard 2 (soft loop at the highest hole on the strut):

http://s11.postimg.org/cckfb3s2q/IMG_0392.jpg

Initial observations:
- Seems comfortable
- The combination of the claw and the tuck pad works extremely well for pushing the gun inboard
- Clips are very stable
- Draw is very fast (high ride)
- Concealment is workable so far in a tight-ish t-shirt. Not perfect (some printing depending on the movements), but this shirt is probably the worst possible thing I could wear to conceal a gun with
- Installing the strut that goes over the slide of the gun is a pain in the ass
- Some assembly required

[Byron]

Not a whole lot of info on the internets about the holster after the initial SHOT Show buzz. However, a couple of people here noted that the clips were either too high or too low, with no in-between. Perhaps I should have read their posts before ordering, but oh well.

Get the soft-loop struts and you'll be a happy camper. On an imaginary 1-10 scale, the clips force you to choose a ride height of either 3 or 7. The soft loop struts let you choose any value 1-10.

[ssb]

Get the soft-loop struts and you'll be a happy camper. On an imaginary 1-10 scale, the clips force you to choose a ride height of either 3 or 7. The soft loop struts let you choose any value 1-10.

I'm not so sure I need it. Ride height is very similar to the JMCK I've been wearing. I dunno -- I'll give it some time, and if I need to spend the $20 on the soft loops, I'll do that.

Wore it out to dinner tonight in a well-fitting t-shirt. Comfort was good for the two hours I was sitting at the table. Ditto for driving.

[CSquared]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI_9dFycZBA&feature=youtu.be

Luv a MIC , like a Vanguard 11 but thinking about trying the above.
See my previous post about this...

[HCountyGuy]

So I bought I holster I figured would be suitable to try AIWB carry my P320 Compact with. It's an Inside the Waistband Holster with Hard Loop from Blue Line Concealment.

http://bluelineconcealment.com/inside-the-waistband-holster-with-hard-loop/

So far, after the first day, it's kind of a PITA. That's likely due to not finding that "sweet spot" just yet. Fiddled with the placement quite a few times, everything from just off the 12 o'clock to about 2. When my belt and pants weren't being pulled down slightly, it seemed tolerable slightly aside my "bedroom piece". Can't say I've had an issue with my pants slipping down like this with my normal holster, an Alien Gear IWB.

One thing I quickly discovered I had to figure out how to manage, was trying to pee in a urinal without the gun and holster nearly flipping out of my pants, leaving me with my barrel aimed at my handsome mug.

I did wind up with some redness on my upper right thigh from where I had the rig situated most of the day. I did try a homemade style wedge on the gun, so I don't have the holster digging in as much or the muzzle aimed at my leg, but didn't seem to quite work as intended, because where the rig ended up riding, there didn't seem to be enough padding to make contact with that crease by the leg to push the muzzle forward.

'm willing to keep playing around with the positioning, at least until I just can't stand it anymore.

[JDM]

So I bought I holster I figured would be suitable to try AIWB carry my P320 Compact with. It's an Inside the Waistband Holster with Hard Loop from Blue Line Concealment.

http://bluelineconcealment.com/inside-the-waistband-holster-with-hard-loop/

So far, after the first day, it's kind of a PITA. That's likely due to not finding that "sweet spot" just yet. Fiddled with the placement quite a few times, everything from just off the 12 o'clock to about 2. When my belt and pants weren't being pulled down slightly, it seemed tolerable slightly aside my "bedroom piece". Can't say I've had an issue with my pants slipping down like this with my normal holster, an Alien Gear IWB.

One thing I quickly discovered I had to figure out how to manage, was trying to pee in a urinal without the gun and holster nearly flipping out of my pants, leaving me with my barrel aimed at my handsome mug.

I did wind up with some redness on my upper right thigh from where I had the rig situated most of the day. I did try a homemade style wedge on the gun, so I don't have the holster digging in as much or the muzzle aimed at my leg, but didn't seem to quite work as intended, because where the rig ended up riding, there didn't seem to be enough padding to make contact with that crease by the leg to push the muzzle forward.

'm willing to keep playing around with the positioning, at least until I just can't stand it anymore.

One of the biggest mistakes one can make when carrying appendix is not using a holster purpose built for AIWB by someone who knows what they are doing when making an appendix holster.

I'd bet a large portion of your struggles with appendix carry would go away with a proper appendix holster.

[LittleLebowski]

One of the biggest mistakes one can make when carrying appendix is not using a holster purpose built for AIWB by someone who knows what they are doing when making an appendix holster.

I'd bet a large portion of your struggles with appendix carry would go away with a proper appendix holster.

Thank you.

[JMS]

It can be worn either appendix carry (in the front) or small of the back carry.

...meaning it's a jack-of-all that you're trying to press-gang into fulfilling a specific role.

Just as a for-example, take a look at the amount of/shape of material forward of the trigger guard on what you bought. Compare to CCC Shaggy, JM Custom AIWB, Raven ACR, Eidolon, and similar.

Note the difference. It's one of several design factors that denotes what is or is not a purpose-built AIWB holster. All that extra material is almost doubtless the source of the rubbing on your leg, and can be mitigated by a pad only so much.

Jack-of-all CAN work! BUT...it's a low-percentage shot.

[JCS]

So I bought I holster I figured would be suitable to try AIWB carry my P320 Compact with. It's an Inside the Waistband Holster with Hard Loop from Blue Line Concealment.

http://bluelineconcealment.com/inside-the-waistband-holster-with-hard-loop/

So far, after the first day, it's kind of a PITA. That's likely due to not finding that "sweet spot" just yet. Fiddled with the placement quite a few times, everything from just off the 12 o'clock to about 2. When my belt and pants weren't being pulled down slightly, it seemed tolerable slightly aside my "bedroom piece". Can't say I've had an issue with my pants slipping down like this with my normal holster, an Alien Gear IWB.

One thing I quickly discovered I had to figure out how to manage, was trying to pee in a urinal without the gun and holster nearly flipping out of my pants, leaving me with my barrel aimed at my handsome mug.

I did wind up with some redness on my upper right thigh from where I had the rig situated most of the day. I did try a homemade style wedge on the gun, so I don't have the holster digging in as much or the muzzle aimed at my leg, but didn't seem to quite work as intended, because where the rig ended up riding, there didn't seem to be enough padding to make contact with that crease by the leg to push the muzzle forward.

'm willing to keep playing around with the positioning, at least until I just can't stand it anymore.

You can't unbutton your pants when peeing while carrying appendix. It's too dangerous and you risk your gun falling out. Sucks you had to find out the hard way but to make appendix work you need a true appendix holster. What kind of belt are you using? I, too, made that mistake. I bought a holster almost identical to the one you got and made it work by adding padding. But it didn't conceal the gun property. Then I just bought a shaggy and it's good to go right out of the box. No need to add anything and practically makes a g19 disappear on my skinny body. Instead of ponying up $70 at first I ended up paying $35 then $70. Buy once cry once is something I should have obeyed. The loop location is very poor for appendix style carry on those style holsters.

[Captain]

I don't have any issues unbuttoning for potty breaks when carrying AIWB… I got my technique down and everything, I don't be tickling or nothing.

[BaiHu]

I don't have any issues unbuttoning for potty breaks when carrying AIWB… I got my technique down and everything, I don't be tickling or nothing.
Same here. Even though I can't carry in NJ, I still practice at my house wearing it for hours at a time. Sometimes all day on a weekend. Bathroom use, cleaning the house, bending, twisting and playing with the dog. My primary holster is a JRC.

[JDM]

I got my technique down and everything, I don't be tickling or nothing.

Masterpiece.

[Wendell]

You can't unbutton your pants when peeing while carrying appendix. It's too dangerous and you risk your gun falling out...

That depends on the belt and the holster. A belt that resists torsion is good; a floppy belt is bad. A holster with a fixed solid Kydex loop and enough primary retention to preclude your gun from falling out, even if the holster is inverted, is good; anything that allows the holster to rotate outward (independent of the belt), or that fails to retain the gun, is bad. With some belts, you must take care to ensure that the holster does not (of it's own accord) slide off the belt; with a good belt, it won't.

With a good belt and a good holster, you can.

[CSquared]

I'm not sure why some are saying his holster isn't good for AIWB.

The INCOG is set up the same way, especially if you remove the outside clip, as are the Philster AIWB offerings, Gun Craft and their Krypto, my K Rounds and others. I feel that his problem is 100% belt. I've been wearing a K Rounds for a while now, even carried a P250 which size-wise is identical to the 320 and never had a problem AND it's marketed as a dedicated AIWB holster as are the others I listed which are designed almost exactly the same way.

...wow, run on sentence much...lol.